This is a text my wife recieved from her brother telling her that was not going to be joining us for Thanksgiving and gives a brief explanation as to why? Before I continue with saying anything else...I wanted to put up the text so everyone can read it themselves to get you own first impressions. Here it is in it's entirety...
"I'm Not Coming."
"I'm Not feeling well."
"XXXX, I'm so sorry, I'm just going to sit here on the couch for a few days ..Okay?
You guys a good time with Mom, XXXX...I really Love you and it would be best for everybody if I stay here, give Mom a big kiss and tell her I love her."
So you aren't left guessing. My brother in law has a number of health issues revolving around diabetes and chronic depression and has a disability status since he is unable to work because of it. Without thinking any further about this when I first read this text before talking to my wife....the first thing that crossed my mind was thinking to myself "good....he shouldn't driving 100's of miles to get together with his family if he's not feeling good and not up to the trip and should feel Okay or that he hasn't let everybody down if he doesn't feel good and knows that he won't be very good company or very uplifting to be around. No need to apologize or explain..."I hope you feel better. Relax....get some rest and get past whatever it is you are dealing with.....we'll catch up again soon anyway." Knowing he has health issues....I also know that he probably doesn't want to always have to explain this to everyone if something is going on and he simple knows that he isn't up to doing anything with anyone else and needs time to recover to these somewhat chronic moments of down time due to his physical limitations.
I thought this all to be pretty obvious and in no need of further explanation? What happened next was a chain reaction of events which ended up with my wife and I getting into a situation over this that I had no concept of why it happened or why my wife saw something completely different than what I saw and the conclusions she came to and what happened next.
My wife seemed visibly distressed about the text message and was seemingly highly concerned about something and became agitated without explanation? When asked she said.." I need some time to think and I can't talk to right now because there's a crisis.
Crisis? I don't understand? What crisis? With no explanation more than..."I know my brother....and I'm very worried and concerned. Men over the age of 50 who live alone and are isolated are at the highest risk of suicide especially at the holidays."
Without going into all the details of how this caused a tense time between my wife and I and two different conclusions that came from the same text and what we both knew of her brother individually. I am without a lot of information to form any opinios outside of my wifes conclusion but first and initial reaction and response to my wife was.." well....why don't you just call him and see what's up?" This seemed reasonable?
My wife went into a tailspin and told me she didn't want to talk about it and she needed to make some phone calls on his behalf to send someone over right away to make sure her brother was alright? It was a panick like response to something that I just wasn't seeing? "So if your a man...living alone and are isolated with health problems and it's the Holiday's....then the first thing you would conclude from this text is that is might kill himself and that's why he said what he said? In context to everything I know of her brother.....I wasn't seeing?
So I went back and reread the text using a different lens or filter. If you see her brother as a person who the poor victim of circumstance in pain and misery and who is usuing victim language instead of being up front and honest about his intentions and feelings and don't trust what he is saying to be true....then there must be a different explanation for the text working and he's actually at some critical stage in his life where he is contemplating ending it all.
Of all the possiblities possible....this would be the last one I would choose and is at the end of the line as the worst possible scenario one would pick I think. I can think a dozens of others to consider here first before I would arrive at the same one that my wife came to and then went into "Crisis" mode.
This resulted in my wife and I getting into a fight when she started panicking and treating me harshly because I was trying to ask questions to get more information and because she came to me with a seeming need for me to do something but I couldn't even determine if there was a crisis or not in the first place yet my wife only said in the moment..." I don't want to talk about it" as her only response.
Okay then.....I'll leave you alone and when your ready....you can try and explain this too me? This made her mad since she said again "I just did....what don't you understand?" What I understand here is that you think your brother is going to kill himself and I don't? And it makes no sense to me that she would do everything but simply call him and check in with him to see for herself? Instead....she called other relavtives and tried to get them to go see him and check in on him and his status in person by going to his house.
My response to this was " but what if he's really just not feeling well like he says and he doesn't want company which he clearly indicated??.....wouldn't that piss you off a little if now family members are dropping by unannounced or univited to come sit around and require you to have to talk or explain the very thing you don't want to do. You just did the opposite of what he wants by doing this?"
As it turns out....when her brother called on Thanksgiving to check in.....he was fine and as it turns out.......the text was exactly what it said.....literally or by any other you can think of.....the text needed no further interpretation and her brother was simply not feeling well and was not up to a long drive and knew he wan't good company.....face value....straight up. No crisis....no panick.....no emergency.....no need for my wife to snap at me.......no need for her to overreact or call family members.......no suicide attempt......no suicide.......no suicidal thoughts or feelings on her brother's part. Nothing she thought that she read in the text message was true or remotely accurate? Only that statistic she gave as her only reasonaing given to me at the time to help me explain how she felt the supporting reasons why? I only asked the question about calling her brother to find out once and didn't get pressing this issue. I conpletely backed off and let my wife deal with this alone only to reitereate.....this also appeared to upset her at the time as well but " she didn't want to talk about it" ....which I respected and didn't try and do that either.
This is good example of catastrophic thinking......always taking everything to the final and worst case scenario and then beleiving this is what is actually happening even when it's not. I know I've done this before many times in the past....but it appears to be something that happens less the less stress and anxiety I have at the time. These distortions of reality are real or can feel that way when you thoughts are influenced by fear and anxiety and the net result of this is just what I saw happening with my wife.
The most interesting part about this phenomenon is that there really is a "Crisis".....but it only exists inside one persons head and no one else involved even remotely is in any kind crisis at the same time.
Only to say......I had a crisis of sort myself and that was in trying to figure out what the problem was and what my wife was seeing? It took me an hour or so of calming down myself when I became frustrated and annoyed at the fact my wife would only keep saying "I don't want to talk about it" and that was the only information I had to go on. Ultimately.....I just tried to ignore it but as you can imagine.....it's hard to ignore someone who is in a panick state and spewing that all over the same space you are occupying with them at the same time. It kind of excuses theri behavior if they think there is crisis and they really believe it even when you are not even at the point of drawing any conclusions yet until you get more information and going to the sourse is your only hope to get it.
These are the things that appear so strange and bizarre unless you understand it. It was the only way I could know what to do and what I shouldn't do in this case.
Nothing.
J
Catastrophic Thinking
Submitted by jenna-ADD on
I'd say that is an accurate assessment of your situation. The statistic she quoted may be valid, and she likely picked it up in the media and filed it away in her mind somewhere seeing as her brother fit that demographic. But assuming that everyone will kill themselves is a complete overreaction, like saying everyone who has a cancer is going to die.
Although I'm not in the over 50 male demographic, I am a diabetic with depression and I did spend Thanksgiving alone. I've had some coworkers take pity on me and invite me to their family shindigs, but I declined. I would feel weird crashing someone else's family gathering, and mine is such a tree full of nuts and negativity that I'd rather be alone.
I would be extremely annoyed if I made it clear that I wished to be left alone and people were trying to pound on my door or blow up my phone trying to coax me out. That is 1. violating the boundaries that someone else has clearly set and 2. you are sending the message that "if you aren't interested in doing as I do, then there must be something wrong with you, because my way is the right way." (And the latter is exactly the attitude of my family in all matters of my life, which is why I choose to avoid them entirely.)
Good Case in Point
Submitted by kellyj on
Thanks for including your own example and saying how you feel under what I saw as the almost identical situation. Thanks for confirming my first initial response....it would be a violation of your's or my brother in law's boundaries by not taking you for face value and trusting that you know what is best for you and considering others at the same time. Yes! Exactly!
It was much easier for me to see this as an observer (than when it happens with me directly) even though it did have a negative effect on me at the time. My comment about doing nothing and not reacting yourself under those conditions I think is the only thing you can do. Trying to do anything is a lose/lose on your end if you do. I think another way to say this was to just "allow it" and let it pass. My wife came to her own conclusions to this on her own and it was after all....the same one.
The most frustrating part of this for me is when I can see something that appears pretty obvious and yet there is nothing I can do to help? I don't think you just need to sit there and take the fall out however......and it's a reasonable thing to remove yourself from the vicinity and allow it that way if you understand what I'm saying:)
Thanks for the input....it was precisely to the point:)
J
My reaction would be
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
My reaction would be somewhere between yours and your wife's. I wouldn't assume catastrophe and send someone over to check on the brother; I would call him to see how he sounded on the phone.
Part Two? lol
Submitted by kellyj on
Why not just call and ask? I might not assume the alternative....but I would still be curious? This is the part I have yet to understand. It was the first thing out of mouth and exactly what I would do? And I wouldn't be calling them to demand and answer or convince them otherwise....I would only be calling to check in and see how they are doing? I figure if I did only that.....the person on the other end of the conversation would get that I'm just seeing if they are Okay. If that's the case... I would appreciate that if that is all they wanted? I still don't get it but.....I don't get a lot of things? lol
J
I'm with you on this one, J.
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I'm with you on this one, J.
Part III....My Part
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm glad I took the time to take note of this one interaction between my wife and I. The two of us went to see our T yesterday and this was the initial topic. I had in the back of my mind what I wanted to say and part of it was this catastrophic thinking. We arrived together agreeing to see what he said and I started the session with simply saying what my intention was.....figuring out where we went wrong in our communication?
As I began to tell him a brief rundown of the facts in chronological order (as I did here with you). My wife immediately started to interject and became defensive (again?) But now she was doing it in front our T. This didn't bother me...but not being able to finish my train of thought to simply discuss the event was making me increasingly agitated and my T mentioned this and stopped me. Between the two of us he said....I appeared to be the only one agitated?
As he has done countless times with me in the past....when he stops me like this and says something like this....it means it's time to quit talking and start listening because my answer is soon to follow. I was right and so was he. Here's what became of the rest of our conversation and the amazingly useful information that my wife wasn't saying but I knew there was more to it.
First major discovery. Despite what my wife had said about herself and what she appeared like to me that my T now brought to the table was that my wife is an introvert. She said felt like she was an extrovert based on er own assessment of herself and she was wrong in this case. No harm no foul...but this changed everything and explained her in a way I had not yet considered. I won't go into the clinical definition of this which is different than you might think and it is not based on your external behavior. It's all about what goes on inside and how extroverts and introverts work internally.
This was an amazing discovery for me to know which I think this was part of my T's intention in stopping me. He was the one who taught me the difference and I have been learning and coming to understand this difference for quite some time. This is why I came back here to include this follow up since it is now as I have begun to go back more and recount these moments of stress and anxiety with my wife....it was one of those "AH HA!" moments and everything fell neatly into place. Without going into this any further....the second major discovery came next.....
As we discussed what just happened with me getting agitated and now me considering this new development...my T simply asked me if this is what I was trying to bring up with him...that is.....what he saw in my reaction and what he saw in my wife at the time he interrupted. I told him yes...this is where I was going...but I insisted on finishing my thought and wanted to discuss the catastrophic thinking plus...try to explain something that I have been referring to as "IT"...for lack of a better name. "IT"...it seems, was the very thing that seemed to be getting in the way when my wife and I communicate and but as I referred to "IT" in our T's office was..."the invisible barrier that I keep bumping up against but don't know what that is."
As it turns out...."IT" has a name. It's called PTSD.
When my T stopped me....I had just gotten to the part of my story (the same as above) where I mentioned the word "Crisis" which I proceeded to embellish for him with a reenactment of what that felt like when my said "Crisis" and went into my apoplectic incantations and animations to describe this as I was saying it at the same time. This reaction was triggered by something my wife did and part of that has a lot to do with how we process things and our ability to externalize them. The one point I need to mention about the differences between an extrovert and a introvert is directly related to this ability. That and a secondary problem that is even more important. Introverts internalize and extroverts externalize! That means....an extrovert is rarely (or never?) going to be affected by and introvert in this way since an introvert doesn't verbally process and expose what they are feeling. Taking that a step further....they don't share a lot sometimes and my experience at least tells me that they aren't always very good at it simply because it's not in their nature to do this and therefore....don't do it often.
Conversely....extroverts do this all the time! Between the two.....the introvert is always going to feel put upon, pressured to do something that is uncomfortable for them to do and will get overwhelmed with too much too fact coming at them and no place to go or run and hide from and extrovert who is hammering at them none stop. From a pejorative way of seeing it....this is what appears to be like for and introvert and this probably will never happen going the other direction if you understand the concept?
Tying this all together? This is now....the chain of events that took place with my wife and I and why it happened (and keeps happening) between the two of us. By the way...she also has PTSD. I know?????? yikes!. Only to say one thing about this....PTSD is a learned phenomenon and you learn it from experience. No two peoples experiences are the same even if similar so to say PTSD...is to say it's not the same and not for the same reasons. I know mine and I think I understand here better...but that's all I know as far as what triggers hers exactly and why. I can only speculate unless she were to explain it to me and explaining it to me is what she doesn't want to do. As is with her brother....they are both very tight lipped when it comes to these things. I understand that part...but that still leaves me guessing to a lesser degree at least now than before.
Without getting into the details any further.....my intention here at least is just to go back over and plug in what I now know into this dynamic for anyone else who might be interested?
First....my wife comes and lays the phone down beside me and asks me to read it then proceeds to walk out of the room and not return for a while. I read it and just like I said...came to the conclusion I did.
Second....my wife returns and seems upset and I have no idea why? I ask. She get more upset and won't answer...and then she says theres a crisis. BAM My PTSD kicks into full swing. Here's how my PTSD works...
I hear the word crisis and my PTSD is triggered. From this point moving forward....I have one singular goal in mind. I have tunnel vision to the extreme and I and only hear and see one thing......get to the facts as soon as possible by asking questions and collecting all the information I can in as little time as possible since....
it's a crisis and something bad is about to happen...
there is a problem that must be solved immediately since there is a finite time limit in order to get to the source of the problem.
time is wasting to do anything but problem solve and find a solution. Talking about it is not on my agenda. That includes wasting any unnecessary time thinking about it either. When the house is on fire....you don't have time to go see what started it.
if no solution is found within the time a lotted....there will be no resolution and the catastrophe with not be averted.
the bad thing will happen and now it's too late
From the perspective of an extrovert who has ADHD who just got triggered into PTSD mode by my wife's somewhat cryptic communication style...when I heard the word "Crisis" used as my only means to asses the situation and my wife is now not giving up any more information....this sends me into an internal panic. No time for wasted words or being shy here...if my wife really thinks my brother in law is going to kill himself....WTF!!! Call the Fucking ambulance!!! If I am to trust my wife and take her for her word.....what else would you do? At the very least....call the victim and see if he's still breathing for Christ sake!!
This is my version of catastrophic thinking but it is directly related to my PTSD. Add in the extroversion and verbally processing style...lay ADHD on top of that an my own inability to communicate well or at the very least in these moments....not very tolerant for time wasted and clamming up which is exactly what my wife did. Walk away....spend time thinking about it (while her brother lays dying on the floor?) and then decides to call relatives instead of calling him. In my anxious state of confusion and frustration with my wife and her seemingly illogical behavior.....I'm literally tearing my hair out trying not to say anything and erupting inside with utter frustration mostly....since the first step in my own PTSD process is get the facts together as soon as possible and my wife was doing everything in her power to prevent this from happening.
The conclusion that came from our session was my T giving my wife this advise.
Side note: I took the text message along with us so my T could do the same thing I did here. This was so smart and Overwhelmed wife has mentioned this a number of times when going into counseling. Bring the evidence in and don't relay on hearsay or word of mouth. Distortions on either side will make it impossible for anyone else to determine what is really happening. It isn't court and it isn't adversarial to do this. It's allowing the professional to make the determination and go from there without having to rely on who said what and which one is wrong. So smart...it saves a great deal of wasted time and energy.
the advise paraphrasing......"I can see where he(me)....might get the impression he did and not think there was anything wrong at first as I read this. Without anything more to go on and considering his PTSD reaction to the word "crisis".....he's going to do his own very predictable pattern of a way to respond to you. I can also see why he felt that you were trying to involve him here since you wanted him to read the text but then you walked out of the room to process this on your own in the way you do these things."
My T has mild ADD but is a confessed introvert as well so he understand both her and me from his direct experience. His being and introvert...and me and how it feels for him too. He is at the very least....sympathetic to my wife and understand it from that perspective.
His final suggestion to her based on this scenario was this. If my wife is an introvert and needs to process things internally before she can talk things out with me....as he said it.....this is not a "we" process and is a "me" process compared to myself who is just the reverse of this. Without knowing this and without understanding the difference....she invited me to help her and I went with the only thing I had and proceeded according....only to get insight and triggered into my usual PTSD pattern and cannot see any way out of it without talking some more. He suggested in the moment that would have possibly worked better for her in this case was to go off and process all of it alone and then come to me and see what I had to say.
And if I went into what appeared to be the same pattern on my end that keeps happening and she recognizes that for her to simply say " I need some time to process this some more before we talk about it...is that Okay?" Instead of " I don't want to talk about it."
Praise the Lord.... Halleluja!! "Would that be Okay?" I would have not only thanked the Lord...but my lucky stars if she would have only said those words. It would have ended before it even started and the world would be a better place to live in!!!" lol
J