Submitted by overwhelmedwife on 02/18/2015.
Our kids avoid their dad as much as they can. H knows this and blames me.
Our kids have repeatedly told him, "our opinions about you are based on what we've witnessed and experienced". But H won't accept that. He wants to believe that I "turned the kids against him."
The kids can rattle off dozens and dozens of stories where their dad behaved horribly, embarrassed them, or was cruel to me. But, H won't accept that.
He still blames me.
At one point, our kids wrote H's therapist a long letter detailing why THEY dislike him. The T told H to stop yelling so much, particularly at his kids. Still, that did no good.
Short answer: Yes
Submitted by CosmicJoke on
Yes.
Yep
Submitted by laney on
Yes, this all sounds so, so familiar. But after many years, my kids' father (we are divorced) is just starting to realize it is him. He has no one else in his life to blame.
I think the kicker for him was when the kids turned down surprise tickets to see a really cool circus show with him. I encouraged them to go, but they were adamant that he would ruin their night anyway. They stayed home and did homework and watched movies.
At first, he raged and called them ungrateful. My son told him that they really had wanted to see the show, had asked me to get tickets for them, but that they would rather skip it than deal with a night of anger.
At least in my case, there is just no way to convince him. He just has to see for himself.
H has a hard time understanding that even ....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
H has a hard time understanding that even if there are many "happy times" with him that the kids can remember, there are just too many traumatic times that more than "cancel" those out. The kids don't want to risk any more "bad times". They don't like dealing with the "unknown" that goes on when you spend time with H. And, you never know how bad it's going to get.
H will say, "Well, you've gotten mad at the kids, too." Well, yes, but my "yelling" doesn't scare them. My "yelling" is typical "mom yelling,"....."Come on kids, you're going to be late for school. Hurry up!!!" or "Get in that room and clean it up. You were told to do that yesterday!" "Hurry up and get in the car, you're keeping everyone waiting!" "Stop arguing with your brother." "Get back to your homework, it's getting late."
None of the above is "scary". It doesn't "scar" them. We've all have had moms say stuff like that to us. They're all like 3 second "orders" that don't "shake their core."
The kids have no fear that anything is going to escalate. There is no fear of "what's next" or "how bad is thing going to get." And THAT is key.
When the kids are with me, they KNOW that they're going to be safe and secure and happy. Even if we have a tiny mom/child quarrel, it's very quick, it's not threatening, it's not scary, and it's over with love and hugs....no lingering nonsense or anger.
My H really can't distinguish between "adult discussion" and....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
My H really can't distinguish between "adult discussion" and fighting....
My best friend and I were having a phone conversation and I had the phone on "speaker" so that I could do chores at the same time. My BFF said the wrong name for someone, and I said, "oh, that's (correct name)." and my BFF said, "are you sure." And I said, "yes, I'm sure it's (correct name) because don't you remember last year when (blah blah blah).?" "Oh yeah, now I remember. I forgot about that."
the whole conversation was casual, there was no "tone", there was no "annoyance," and BFF and I went merrily along to the next topic of conversation.
Later, H mentioned that I "fought" with my BFF. I was like, "What???" I didn't even know what he was talking about. So, H said, "you know, when you corrected her about the name of that person." I was like, "oh my, that wasn't a fight. That was just a normal convo with her. We weren't angry or annoyed".
But, H insisted that I "fought with her." And that since I "fight" with her, it's my fault that I fight with him. lol He thinks that having any kind of "give and take" with another person is a "fight".
I once had a waiter serve me the wrong meal, I told him, and he asked if this was still ok because the kitchen would have to remake my dish. I said, "ok" and began eating this "wrong dish". The waiter left. Then the waiter came back and tried to take the dish saying, "oh, that was for someone else. I have to give it to them." I told him that he couldn't reserve that dish because it was a serious health code violation (He had left it at my table, I had eaten from it).....both are reasons that the dish CANNOT be reserved.....at least in the USA. I remained calm and nice throughout simply because I assumed this was a new employee who didn't' yet know all the rules.
a few days later, H insisted that I "yelled at that waiter" and that I "argued with him." lol. I was just "being an adult" and setting things straight, making sure the waiter understood why he couldn't reserve that dish.
So, it's very odd that H views any sort of "give and take" between people as "fighting." He doesn't understand that there is acceptable "back and forth" and unacceptable "back and forth."
Yes
Submitted by 20YrVet on
One child in high school. Husband never bothered to establish a relationship with her. He did take her to the playground (for the 15 minutes at a time he could stand -- I kid you not) as "breaks" for me when she was a toddler, and he once took her to ER for a cough that turned out to be pneumonia, and I'm very thankful to him for catching that. Sometimes he has teased her or tossed her into the air (when she was small enough for that). But that's it. I had to BEG him to show up for her extracurricular events. I can think of two times when he actually showed up. He was late to a game she was in on her birthday, because he was busy helping people with a nonessential project that was important to him. He could have probably still made an attempt at being an involved dad as late as middle school. I remember that she and I used to watch a TV show together that he probably wouldn't have minded watching (it was sci fi), and he'd pass by the couch and say something, and I'd invite him to sit down and join us, and he always turned me down. So, while I know that there is typically more bonding between parents and children who share the same gender, my husband and daughter have no relationship to speak of. She is learning how to drive and won't let him teach her, because she says he'll yell at her (he is not generally an angry person). They both have something computer-related they need to work out, and they try to communicate through me rather than directly with each other (I keep trying to step out of the way and tell each of them they will have to talk to the other, so then they just don't discuss the matter at all). I feel heart-broken over this... and I get rather envious when I see dads who are actually involved in their children's lives.
Similar story, different reasons
Submitted by GailT on
Our daughter isn't very close to her Dad. She wants to be, but he's treated her unkindly over the years and it's all had an effect. He's never meant to be unkind but he just isn't aware of how he comes across and he can be quite irritable and too quick to react badly to stuff she says or does. When he's calmed down or we've talked about it he always sees things clearer and he does apologise but the damage has been done and it's cumulative. She knows it's his ADHD that makes him like he is and he's not choosing to be this way but she still feels the hurt regardless.
She also sees the way he treats me and feels hurt by that too.
He does also have good qualities, he's not all bad, but the kind things he does, like wanting to take her to the cinema for example are really just like sticking plasters when what is really needed is the wound excised and dealt with properly! She doesn't feel he really cares that much and that he's only ever up for the surface shallow fun stuff and buries his head in the sand for anything that's important.
As a result of all that, our daughter is close to me and doesn't particularly want to spend time with her Dad.
It's such a shame, parent/child relationships are so important. Good ones can set you up for life and bad ones can stuff your life up completely. I often feel that parents just have no clue as to what power and effect they have on a kid's life.
Yes, it is cumulative....and even if there are good qualities.
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
Our daughter isn't very close to her Dad. She wants to be, but he's treated her unkindly over the years and it's all had an effect. He's never meant to be unkind but he just isn't aware of how he comes across and he can be quite irritable and too quick to react badly to stuff she says or does. When he's calmed down or we've talked about it he always sees things clearer and he does apologise but the damage has been done and it's cumulative. She knows it's his ADHD that makes him like he is and he's not choosing to be this way but she still feels the hurt regardless.
She also sees the way he treats me and feels hurt by that too.
He does also have good qualities, he's not all bad, but the kind things he does, like wanting to take her to the cinema for example are really just like sticking plasters when what is really needed is the wound excised and dealt with properly! She doesn't feel he really cares that much and that he's only ever up for the surface shallow fun stuff and buries his head in the sand for anything that's important.
>>>
My sister who is a clinical T, says that what people like this don't realize is that EVEN if they are "nice" or "ok" most times, the BAD TIMES are what is remembered and have HUGE impact.
My H doesn't want to accept this. But, this is the truth.....Even if you give your child 29 healthy meals a month, and only give them poison in one meal a month.....GUESS WHAT??? You're abusive, horrible, and dangerous to kids.
So, even if a parent is find 95% of the time, if they do things that are abusive/mean/cruel/damaging....THAT is what matters.
Nope.
Submitted by AlphabetSoup on
Nope.
He's the "fun parent." I'm the "we need to do your homework before you turn on the wii" parent.
He's the "let's order pizza" parent. I'm the "eat your vegetables" parent.
He's the "daddy brought presents" parent. I'm the "it'll be XXX holiday in six weeks, that would make a great gift for you then!" parent.
Basically he's the "YES" parent, and that leaves me stuck in the role of being the "NO" parent, because baths have to be taken and homework has to get done and dentists have to be visited and rooms have to get clean once in a while and behavioral issues have to be addressed by means other than yelling, berating, threatening, and then ignoring it.
I really don't understand it, because he's also the parent who constantly yells if they run, or talk too much, or make too much noise... He's the parent who makes wild and terrible threats (that I swear to God he knows I'm neither going to nor going to be able to back up). He yells so much, I'M on pins and needles praying no one makes a mistake.
I try very hard to be patient, and consistent, and predictable, and understanding, and fair. I remember growing up with kids whose parents were either checked out or demanding and capricious, remember how much it hurt them and how glad I was to have my dad.
His mother is the same way-- and they flock to her too, because she's "fun" and does things like serve them rootbeer floats while I'm making dinner. And she defends all their misbehaviors by blaming it on me. I get that kids misbehave-- but sometimes the solution is to correct the child, not castigate the mother.
He used to threaten to divorce me and take the kids. One day I told him I wouldn't allow that to happen and never wanted to hear that threat again. Now when I ask him to change certain behaviors, he says, "Leave if you want. The kids and I will manage." When I tell him I won't allow him to take them from me, he comes back with, "I won't have to. They'll pick me."
He's right. They would. What kid wouldn't?? They're KIDS-- they know what they want, not what's good for them in the long run.
I can almost promise you, this probably won't last forever....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
He's the "fun parent." I'm the "we need to do your homework before you turn on the wii" parent.
He's the "let's order pizza" parent. I'm the "eat your vegetables" parent.
He's the "daddy brought presents" parent. I'm the "it'll be XXX holiday in six weeks, that would make a great gift for you then!" parent.
Basically he's the "YES" parent, and that leaves me stuck in the role of being the "NO" parent, because baths have to be taken and homework has to get done and dentists have to be visited and rooms have to get clean once in a while and behavioral issues have to be addressed by means other than yelling, berating, threatening, and then ignoring it.
I really don't understand it, because he's also the parent who constantly yells if they run, or talk too much, or make too much noise... He's the parent who makes wild and terrible threats (that I swear to God he knows I'm neither going to nor going to be able to back up). He yells so much, I'M on pins and needles praying no one makes a mistake.
>>>
In this regard, my H was exactly the same when our kids were younger. He'd buy them anything they asked for (just like his ADHD mom did), he never made them do chores, he let them eat whatever they wanted (because all of this is easier for HIM.
I always had to be the adult.
BUT.....as the kids grew up, and got more sassy, etc, H was NOT like his mom anymore. (H's mom never raised her voice....ever....always permissive and always patient). H is NOT patient and H does yell....he easily yells).
So, once the kids were teens and started calling him on his BS (broken promises, treating me badly, etc), H began to yell a LOT more at them...and he started getting more and more angry at them.
My children loved being with their Daddy
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Both of our children loved spending time with their Daddy. I tried my best to never argue with my spouse when our children were present, and to also continue to reinforce the Our Home Rule of "No character assassination, never, not ever."
I am not the perfect parent. As our children grew up, I did work hard to avoid saying anything that would diminish my spouse in his children's eyes. The few instances where I thought my spouse was totally out of line, I did my best to make sure I explained why I was not in agreement with what Daddy did. It is a tough road to travel , this trying to figure out how to have a good balance - and not have a 'blind obedience because I am the parent' situation.
Liz
My big regret!!!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
Both of our children loved spending time with their Daddy. I tried my best to never argue with my spouse when our children were present, and to also continue to reinforce the Our Home Rule of "No character assassination, never, not ever."
>>>>
I sincerely regret not telling a therapist about H's behavior around the kids . I wish I had done so because a T would have insisted that H stop yelling around the kids and to stop the name-calling and character assassination.
H now has a T that has told him that, but that is 20+ years too late. H was so naive, that he told his T what he did around the kids (screaming, calling me names, etc), because H didn't realize how horrible that was....the T really told him off about that and told him to write a letter to our kids apologizing for doing that.
I stupidly didn't address it back then like I should have. I would say, "keep your voice down" and "don't talk like that in front of the kids," but H is so impulsive and OCD that he really can't stop himself....he just gets so compelled to lash out. Truly compelled....like a forced vomit.
Used to, but it's better
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Our girls disliked being our their ADHD Daddy growing up, because he was so scattered and impatient with them. He would say things that would hurt them and always in a tone of voice that was hurtful and condescending. It really affected their self worth growing up. They both picked "the wrong type" of guys when it came time for dating, and were ALWAYS choosing people that abused them and was WORSE than their Daddy was. But, he never showed them anything DIFFERENT. Then he would get angry at them for choosing the wrong kind of people to be around, or men to date. He did NOT want to believe he had anything to do with their choices in men. The hardest thing was that he wouldn't tell them anything NICE about themselves....i.e.....compliments, encouraging words, smiles, hugs, kisses........NOTHING. They just learned to stay out of his way. It broke my heart. It was also discouraging because he would TALK about what a great father and husband he was, and that he always wanted to be like his uncle who WAS a wonderful man. My husband wanted to be "just like his uncle", and he REALLY thought he was doing things his uncle was doing......he wasn't.
He is now beginning to see just what he's been like. It's a new revelation to him, so I have yet to see where this goes. Our daughters are grown now and in their 30's, and they don't mind being around him now, but in short doses because he still tends to make them nervous. He's always demanded a lot of them, but his demands have been confusing because his OWN behavior has always been so unstable. It was always..."Do as I say, not as I do". Not a good example to be for children, or anyone.
Yes!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
My older son still has a relationship with my H but it is limited. Son can only take H in "small doses". Usually, son prefers to just see me. H is just too unstable, unpredictable and often moody.