Non-ADHD spouses: What do you think of this article?

Yes, ADD/ADHD people are hard

Submitted by PoisonIvy on Sat, 04/04/2015 - 10:08

"Yes, ADD/ADHD people are hard to love, but once you understand the burden they are carrying, your heart will open up. Love and compassion will take the place of anger. You will see into their sweet and good soul."

I'm not angry at my husband for having ADHD I have some compassion for him, but I do not love him. He lacks some of the negative qualities often associated with ADHD (anger) but also some of the positive ones (being passionate and deeply empathetic and intuitive).

Articles like this kind of make me want to barf. Just another "oh, you spouses without ADHD, you just don't understand. It's your fault" piece.

My response to this is ......

Submitted by Tired-to-my-bones on Sat, 04/04/2015 - 17:34

My response to this is .......And?.........

Like Everything Else, It Depends On The Individual

Submitted by lonelyspouse on Sat, 04/04/2015 - 18:42

I read the article and maybe half of the traits listed describe my husband. The one I find most puzzling is the "deeply intuitive" trait. Not in a million years would I use that to describe my husband. I can tell him exactly how I feel or think, and he will argue with me and insist that he "really" knows what I mean or feel. It is absolutely maddening, as there is NO convincing him that I just might have more insight than he into what I am feeling. I can sit right in front of him, sobbing after one of his tirades, and he will angrily snap, "What are you so pissed off about?" Since when do tears equal hostility? Sometimes when I speak very calmly and softly with him (taking care not to have a "tone" that he can then use as an excuse to derail any conversation he does not want to have), he says I am only being "nice" to make him feel guilty. Is there such a thing as negative intuition? If so, he has it.

This article is ridiculously black and white.

Submitted by AlmaVera on Sat, 04/04/2015 - 22:40

This article is ridiculously black and white. As someone with it, I would honestly say that I am not 'passionate about everything' I do. I am passionate about things that make me passionate...like pretty much anyone else. I can focus on cleaning my house, but I'm never passionate about it. I can concentrate on a report at work and get in the zone, but I'm not passionate about it. I am scattered and disorganized much of the time, but I seldom lose control of my emotions. I am far more likely to stuff my emotions down to stay below everyone's radar. I avoid conflict if possible. I had some trouble with emotional meltdowns right after my concussion. It drove me crazy, and stunned the people who saw them, because it was so unlike me.

In addition, I have been involved with 2 different men in my life who both have it (one diagnosed and on meds for it, one not). They were as different as night and day in many ways. Both extremely intelligent, both creative (in different areas), both had some narcissistic traits like craving accolades and needing to feel better than others, both could be emotionally abusive and manipulative, but with vastly different styles and 'skills.'

One (the undiagnosed, untreated one) is quite often more generous, more sensitive to others, got some joy from giving or doing things for me while we were together, more able to express a variety of emotions, also has more self-awareness and social intelligence. He can smoothly manipulate others (often without them realizing it). His ADHD seems to express itself pretty much through messiness and disorganization, procrastination on things he doesn't like to do, forgetting simple things, and hyperfocusing -- things rather than people, if that makes sense (though his symptoms did affect me by causing me to have to do the things he didn't or to help him get out of 'trouble'). The other is not nearly as generous (more so with kids than adults, though), has a lot of difficulty with compassion and empathy, openly said he didn't get anything out of giving or doing things for me, more negative and likely to express anger than positive emotions, lacks awareness of self and others quite often, socially awkward at times, and also manipulates, but more through passive-aggressive ways than openly lying. He seems to have gotten a really good handle on task management, scheduling, taking care of the boring tasks in life, etc., but his symptoms very definitely affect his interpersonal relationships. He has few friends, and while that bothers him a lot, seems unwilling to put the same effort into working on the interpersonal symptoms that he put into the other symptoms (with much success, too).

I don't know... it's more and more obvious that a.) not all people with ADHD have all symptoms, or b.) to the same degree, and c.) by the time a person is diagnosed as an adult, there are a ton of other things through the person's life that could influence personality, not just ADHD. By the time someone is diagnosed as an adult, it's just one of many other factors in making up someone's personality, like possible issues accrued through years in school, possible dysfunctional childhoods, other mental or physical illnesses, possible learning disabilities, etc. For example, how one person is treated by his or her parents (whether or not it has to do with ADHD symptoms) may lead that person to become defensive and to lash out in the face of criticism. Another person may grow up used to absorbing blame and criticism. These traits will bleed over into other relationships.

Like any other human, someone with ADHD has the capacity to be a jerk and an a**hole. We're not all 'sweet and good souls,' lol.

Not the Best Descriptions ...

Submitted by kellyj on Sun, 04/05/2015 - 09:21

coming from someone who has it. Most of it is sort of right but it leave the reader with the impression that everyone who ADHD is the same. Too many absolutes or incomplete explanations in these descriptions too.

I second AV about the different types of ADHD not having all the symptoms. Several of the comments for example do not apply to me at all. This could cause trouble in misinterpreting what other people see from the outside.

The statement about us thinking differently, seeing things differently, being creative and thinking outside of the box I'd have to agree with......I can sum this up quickly and easily.........

If you have a person who thinks (or exists ) outside of the box, has good intuition, is creative, and see's things you might not see .....he/she is probably going to be somewhat unpredictable and very different from each other since they will all come up with their own versions of the same thing ( the creative thinking part ).

Using concrete descriptions and blanket statements is probably going to yield a high rate of error and being wrong....ya know?

None of this is offensive to me or even wrong... but...it does appear to be written by a concrete (black and white) thinker and the writer of the article themselves wrote........

12. They think out of the box

Another wonderful aspect of ADD is that because they think differently, their abstract minds see solutions to problems that the concrete thinker cannot see

HELLO?????????!!!

FYI: 3 or 4 of these description were all just different ways to describe the same thing......hyper focus. Like I said....incomplete or misleading statements mostly describing the same thing as it might appear...but they neglected to say that.

The problem is ......it appears differently with some people and not others...and with some, not at all. See the problem?

Thank you

Submitted by 20YrVet on Mon, 04/13/2015 - 16:41

Thanks all for your feedback. Like many of you, I felt like not all of these points apply to my spouse -- they are generalizations about ADHD that are true for some, but not all people.

I have to say I felt a bit angry and hurt when I read this, too. Rosered's final response sums it up well. The implication is that the problems in an ADHD/non-ADHD relationship are just from a lack of understanding on the part of the person without ADHD. It is, indeed, very important that we have an understanding of ADHD, but that, coupled with good self-care (which also came up in the article -- and again, that is important, but it makes me feel like everything is on my shoulders), won't make everything okay. I think it's vitally important that both partners try to understand each other and find ways to invest in the relationship. This article is far too simplistic and optimistic. Makes me wonder who wrote this and what their experience with ADHD is. Did they just read about somewhere and decide to write an advice column?

Follow-up - If You Love Someone Who Has ADHD, Don’t...

Submitted by on the edge on Wed, 04/15/2015 - 18:02

The same person wrote the following article:

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/you-love-someone-who-has-...

Thoughts?

Much better

Submitted by 20YrVet on Thu, 04/16/2015 - 10:52

I think this article is much better than the other. It makes fewer generalizations, and I liked the statement that ADHD is not an excuse for an irresponsible lifestyle. That said, the story at the end was frustrating. While I don't believe that love is a finite resource, energy is, and to be just told to "try harder" can be frustrating.

What did you think?

It's better but...

Submitted by on the edge on Thu, 04/16/2015 - 12:10

It is a lot better than the other article and I think a lot of their suggestions are helpful. But I'm wondering, where is the article for the ADHD people to read on what to do and what not to do and how to treat their non-ADHD spouse? Is it out there and I just haven't seen it yet?

Both of the articles made me feel like I have to make all these accommodations and look at my ADHD husband as having a special gift while getting nothing back in return. He's never going to hyperfocus on me again and he's never going to put me first no matter what I do.

Maybe it would have been different if he had been diagnosed 25 years ago and I had read these articles back then. We wouldn't have years of hurt feelings and anger holding us back.

Dear on the edge

Submitted by kellyj on Fri, 04/17/2015 - 18:01

I am sorry that you are left feeling the way you do and the one thing that I cannot help you with is the years of regret. That is something only you can resolve for yourself. I agree with what you are saying about the rules....or do's and don'ts for those of us who have ADHD in learning how to treat our spouses and other people better and learning to be more compassionate and less self absorbed. I also think this article was much better presented than the first one for this reason alone.....

As I read through it myself, I had to stop and go back to make sure it I wasn't confused on just who it was making these suggestions too? I'm easily confused in this way at times! lol But I realized it wasn't because I didn't understand the statements or why they were being said ( and I understand better than the author themselves unless they have ADHD?...... and couldn't have made a better list of suggestions myself, that would make life so much easier for me if only people would only follow them as described)....but I couldn't help but feel like some could not easily apply to us going in the opposite direction? I suddenly realized that I had the opportunity to use this as a means to say something that I haven't been able to put into context to anyone before in a way that might make sense to this discussion......but way more importantly and in the big picture.....try and explain what I see as possibly the single biggest obstacle for either side of this debate in their inability to see things more clearly. My intention now in my own attempt to do this......is not going to make anyone feel better or necessarily give comfort. It is to try and add an understanding however....the the question of WHY this is. The WHY is the thing that I have been answering for myself now for nearly 10 years give or take and I have a pretty good idea of just WHY that is.

This time however.....I can take the opposing side and play devils advocate in a way to help shine some light here on where I see the problem with both articles and directly grant you your request at the same time. I have to do this carefully and choose my words here in order to do this so I hope I will be successful in my attempts. As I am likely to do....I may need to go back and edit or add more thoughts to this later after I read it but I haven't figured out ( if possible?) how to save drafts using this format....enough said. Now I just need to figure out, where to start? lol No joke....this is one of those things that I have very little control in even though I am learning to do this better.....it also has a lot to do with what I'm about to say.....

The biggest problem I see with this, or any other article I read about ADHD is that it makes a terrible presumption that those who have it need to coddled or treated more like a child who cannot understand things in the same way that say....and adult would if this were the case. Whether that is the intent or not, it puts you (all the nons) in this position of feeling just as you do now and I would feel no different if I were you. No one wants to have an adult child to look after as if you are the parent or caregiver to. And I resent being treated this way as much if not even more. That is one huge problem I see with something like this article in that there is an implication of this without saying why that is. What is missing as I tried to say in different words many times before is the most important part of this entire problem between people who have ADHD and people who do not...in our ability to come to a real understanding here. I get as easily frustrated and resentful as you do when it comes to this myself. But that's not your fault or mine.....it's in what I see that is not being said to bridge the gap in this misunderstanding on both side of the fence.

Why is that? Because as with any article or general description....it has to account for a wide audience and range of experience on all levels or understanding. To me it feels rather basic like ADHD 101 for Idiots ( referring to the book series). Right now, I want to take this to a higher level. This time.....I'm talking from a person with a lot of experience directly to those of you here like yourself on the edge.....who also don't need any more experience than you already have to understand this any better than I do so I want to get right to the heart of this any not worry about mixing words for anyone who might not understand. My audience now to be clear....are the veterans in this case.

Stating this clearly and simply without reservation.....the problem is not with you ( those who do not have ADHD ). The problem is that we have some broken in our brains. It doesn't work the same or as well as yours does in many ways. That does not mean our entire brain is broken however...but more very selective and specific parts. I'm not here to be an expert of this subject so am just simply speaking in layman terms so there will be no misunderstanding. But this is a fact....like it or not.

But here's the sticky part. The broken part can be circumvented and circumvented pretty well in most cases, but there really truly are some things that we having ADHD cannot do the same as you no matter how hard we try. I can do many things to work around these parts and find alternative routes in the wiring of my brain.....but the places where the bridge is out in the road is never going to be there no matter how many times you get to that bridge..... and you have to take the detour route around down river which is longer and slower to get to the other side. This is a fact.

TIME! Time is not an option for us. In these places where the bridge is up and fully functioning with you....you can breeze across without a second thought and would have no idea of what it is like to take the detour route down river. Why would you? And why would you even have the need to care? It works and there is no problem. Nothing needs to fixed, repaired or changed in any way. The only reason you have at all to even think about this in the first place is that you are with someone who's bridge is out and now you have to deal with them having to do this. That's also a fact.

But this is not at the heart of the matter yet. It's still not addressing the real problem which is the most important and critical one where all other problems emanate from. It is in my humble opinion....the source for everything that stands in our way or in our inability to deal with having ADHD. Once I tell you this, I gambling that you will also see it just as I said from years of experience with it and know it all too well.

Look at it this way. If you start out not knowing anything about ADHD or even what it is....both sides start the same way in one respect and that is being ignorant and somewhat innocent simply from not knowing any better. There is no harm or foul here either way. The difference in a person who has it however, is that they do know how others treat them because of it and yet don't fully understand the reasons why? I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that anyone no matter who you are, would not feel exactly the same way. But at the same time, as it is being reported back to you....there's not a snow balls chance in Hell that you miss all the reasons why this is and the things that are being said especially....the emotions that other people have that come back to you in a negative way. There is no way to be oblivious to this much and you know it without question. The expectation is that you integrate and conform to some basic simple rules to live by and all the lessons that most people are taught as they grow up in hopefully becoming and ethical, respectful and courteous individual in a way that everyone understands. The rules of the road so to speak. This does not somehow not get understood in the same way either. ADHD does not interfere with a persons IQ or ability to understand these things. Even though it may appear this way at times.......that's not the source of the problem either.

Speaking now in my own words.....the hardest and most difficult thing that I had to get past for myself to move forward and progress from the place where I was before I was diagnosed and understood any of this....... was accepting one simple fact. Yet, the most potentially condemning and devastating fact to accept in thinking about your place in the world and your potential as a person in way that can seem catastrophic at first to your own self esteem and self worth. It's catastrophic because you begin to realize that the reason people shunned you and treated you so differently at times was because of something that when it dawns on you, is not their problem but yours. In a room with 100 people in it....you and five others are the only ones who have this problem not the rest of the people in the room. Extending this outward....this applies to the rest of the world too.

And this simple fact means you have to accept that it is reasonable for anyone else to choose not to like it, and not to have to deal with it (or you) if they choose not to. They have every right to reject you, your behavior and the horse you rode in on and it is not even perfectly normal and reasonable for them to do so. There is absolutely no implied entitlement what so ever..... further, that has never existed even if we are delusional enough to think that it ever did in the first place. It is their choice to feel this way and there is no requirement on anyone else's part to feel differently in any way if they choose not to. Why should you? It's not your problem. And it is their right from a more pointed and self righteous stance. But even within that stance.....it is still not unreasonable. What is unreasonable is us when we cannot except this simple fact and maintain that other people don't have to do or feel anything differently at all in order to accommodate us. Period. This includes the fact that the vast majority of people know virtually nothing about ADHD and like I said....why would they even care? I wouldn't.......and I didn't until I knew I had it.

What I think is more reasonable to understand from the other side is that this experience before and even after you realize you have ADHD.....is that coming to this realization in the first place is something that is speaking directly to an open wound. It is a very sensitive and painful one that developed over years of the things I just said. And it hits right at the heart of how we perceive ourselves and explains quite understandably the denial of it. The denial is not of ADHD or all the facts that we know better than you. We know we do these things better than you do. Telling us again is not saying anything new. The denial in the defense of protecting this wound that you've tried to heal and forget about that keeps getting reopened every time someone brings it up again. That's what we are truly defending against whether we realize this or not. It's also is why I believe that this gets played out in so many different variations and permutations/co morbid disorders etc....and explains why there is also no way of predicting or saying how one person is going to deal with this compared to another for this reason alone. That's also a fact.

What is hard to see for someone without this experience.....is in order to come to this full realization (or not)....requires you to come to the one sobering fact that this is never going to end. It will never change and......other people are not required to deal with all the emotions and feelings of self doubt that come with this realization either. It's the feeling like you're being cutting a drift alone into outer space.....a death without dying? It's these feelings and emotions that we have to deal with that are so painful and self damaging at times but still all good reasons and yet, they are not common to everyone and not ones you rationalize without feeling singled out and alone because they only apply to us and not everyone else. Again, it not your problem it's ours. We've got the broken part not you and in an ideal world left on our own.... we would if we could and simply adjust and find ways around this so no one would ever notice or be affected by it but as we all know...that in itself is unrealistic too.

But that's exactly where all the hiding, excuses and lying come from. As I've said before...it's not exactly lying when someone is in denial because they are unconsciously doing it in defense of this wound to there ego and self worth. But to reiterate what I said.....even this could be seen as normal for anyone if they too had the same wound because ....it's simply what people do under these circumstances. It isn't an excuse......but it is a valid reason to understand.

So if you can see someone who is in denial or with an inability to come to this realization in a way that they can see it the same as I am telling you. You're going to get all the things that you know yourself know all too well in response to this. And no matter what you do....they are not going to change or move very far from protecting that open wound until they feel safe or until they find a way to heal it because it is a very sensitive and painful area in their psyche.

This is really easy to understand ......think of any time you've been injured badly enough to have the kind of extreme pain where you reflexly put your hand out to block someone if they somehow accidently hit that spot on your body. Even worse would be if they intentionally poked their finger in open sore or wound and then kept doing it over and over repeatedly. You'd begin to think that they are intentionally trying to hurt you and for good reason. Little else would explain this situation especially if you already told them repeatedly to stop and not do it anymore. The problem or difference between that, and what happens with us is.....we don't see this happening or even see the reasons why we do it.....and you have no idea what you are doing to cause this reaction in us and assume all the things that would reasonably explain this reaction. That is...for someone who doesn't understand why this is happening because they have no other reference in themselves to draw from in their own experience. This might be the most important aspect to try and understand....the concept that explains why you can't understand something that you or anyone else could understand in this way. Similar maybe? But probably never in this way. That is one hurdle you do have to deal with in yourself because you are never going to be able to explain it from anything you know. Child birth for a woman could possibly be one example of this kind of thing? Different kind of pain from a different source....but it's a universal and clearly understandable concept that even a man can relate to on some level even without having the experience. What I'm talking about here is not universal to everyone in that way.....and it never goes away and is there all the time unless you do something to stop it.

That's what denial does for you. It stops the pain by rationalizing it away so you can simply function in life but that's not to say that denial in itself works 100% of the time, but it is a crutch so to speak......and an effective defense against pain. It is the vanguard for protection of this kind of wound and it's the first line of defense from any threat of attack.

But this problem, ( is still ours) even when denial tells us it's not. Even understanding why and how this happens ( out of protection from the wounds having ADHD) ...... it's still not with you. This part you also know all too well. The only saving grace that we have to offer you is simply not understanding this or being able to tell you exactly why this is in the first place? In my heart of hearts, I'm saying that this is the source of the problem so nothing you do on your end is going to help if you are not aware of this even if the other person is not aware of it themselves. At this point, these things you can do to help seem to make more sense in that they are telling you how to allow us to heal the wound by giving us the time to do it and then find ways to work around it instead. If all you are doing is poking a finger in it each time something happens...the wound never heals and stays open forever.

So here's the deal speaking in terms of myself. I had to come to this place and go through it. I had to come to the place where I had to give grace to other people for not understanding what I know and still allow them their right not to like me or even want to be around me anytime they choose because I have ADHD and all that comes with it. The extra time I need, certain specific things that I know I will never be good at and will never be able to do as well as someone who doesn't have it and let go of any thoughts about that to the contrary as painful and as hard as that was to accept. The first step in the process however...is allowing myself the same grace first which allowed me to grant that to everyone else once I did.

Once I could do this I found......that the wound open wound that had never healed began to heal over time. Eventually, it healed to the point of only being a minor sore spot even if other people hit up against it. Just like in my example with you when a extremely painful wound finally heals to the point that any pain left over is manageable and easy to deal with. Eventually.....it got to the point that when I think about this (as witnessed by me telling you here) that now it is just a part of everyday life and I can deal with this no differently than a bad knee or something like it that only really hurts occasionally but the pain goes away just as fast. It's not kind of like this....it's exactly like this!

And now I can focus on the rest of simply working on improving the things I can and not worrying about the things I can't. In time I've noticed how everything improves if I'm given an opportunity or chance to do it in the first place. But that's not to say that there aren't times when this isn't possible and other people are going to point that out to me the same as they have always done in the past.....the only difference is that it isn't an open wound any more and just doesn't hurt as much as it did and I can live with and accept that and be just fine now compared to the past. That's the only difference. Expecting others to be different in any way shape or form is a failure on my part and is unreasonable in my own expectations of them. And....it is no longer a requirement to do so on my account. That's not to say I'm not going to stand up and defend myself in other ways when it's reasonable to do so ( no problem there!! lol )...but I'm no longer defending against the same thing that I did before and I can't help but feel that this is not the same thing that everyone here in this forum for example is not fighting up against and are not really understanding that this is really where the battle is being fought.

So when I read these articles....I go....yeah....good luck! Your not addressing the real underlying problem. If there is only one thing I could pick in a way to find compassion and understanding to all of these things....I'd say you need to look underneath what is being said and see the real source of the problem and understand the reason why. If you can to do this first and foremost....it will help you know and understand what to do and what not to do for someone with ADHD. If you are dealing with someone who cannot give themselves the kind of grace I'm talking about here. Then finding the compassion in your own heart to give it to them first might be exactly what that person needs more than anything else, and it might be the greatest gift that you could give them........ the chance to get though this themselves in order to heal the open wound and then get to work improving themselves and making the kind of progress that you are desperately hoping to see for yourself or for your children sake.

By doing this.....you are invalidating all the feelings of self condemnation that no one will ever want you or not reject you for having ADHD ( or leave you because of it) and this gesture in itself could possibly validate that you care more than anyone else that they have ever been with before. This is the lie that needs to be dealt with in their heads not your's....but still there needs to be some kind of proof in order for them to see it and let go of it in the first place. It's why the little things are so important and why it really important for you to watch to make sure your not doing things that are only confirming these feeling instead of taking them away or dispelling them. This too takes time and consistency on your part if you really want to make the effort yourself to try something that I think will pay off in big dividends if you see it from this perspective.

I really don't see how this is possible to do without it...but again, I don't see this is as being your responsibility or not even your right to choose not to in the first place if that is your choice. You should not feel guilty for having to take this on when it was never yours to take on in the first place....but standing firmly in saying that a person has to come to this on their own and if they haven't yet.....they're not doing it with the intention for any of these things that you are seeing and the speculations that are being made as to why we can't....or seemingly refusing to do. More than anything....it's a refusal of the pain, not of you. If you take this personally (again, understandably ) it comes from not being able to see this as the reason why we do what we do at times.

I'd sum this up into these articles by adding into it the words.....compassion and grace. I think it's the single most needed thing that has to come first before anything of these suggestions will make a difference alone without it. That's why I think these things really cannot take hold and be very effective by themselves without putting them into this context first. That's what's missing.

If I could make one simple suggestion in a way to do this with someone who has ADHD. I'd say to try and say the same things you've always said in the past whatever they are....demands, complaints and expressing your own emotions in the moment especially angry ones....but change the words to include grace into it in some way using your own words to do it. The compassion will be expressed at the same time and won't need to be addressed if you can do this well.... and you will still be heard in what you want for yourself at the same time. Thinking, you will be heard even better if you do because they will stop defending against you and begin to listen.

Bridges and wounds

Submitted by on the edge on Fri, 04/17/2015 - 18:11

I think there's a difference between you and my ADD-husband. He knows he has ADD and he takes meds and he goes to therapy. But he either doesn't see a need to change or doesn't want to change. You seem more than willing to figure out ways to work around it.

Using your bridge analogy, I feel that your bridge might be out but you are digging a tunnel or maybe looking into ferry service or something else in order to get to the other side. My husband expected me to dig and find ways to work around his ADD. I was expected to make all the accommodations and I didn't get anything in return.

Thinking about your analogy on being poked in an open wound, it goes both ways. He saw me as constantly getting angry when he'd do something (or not) because of the ADD. I'm sure he felt like I was poking at his wounds. I tried to give him extra time to do things (which never got done) and tried to remind him (which was seen as nagging) and eventually I gave up.

But when he'd forget to tell me he'd be home late or didn't listen when I talked to him or interrupted me or put his own interests first again, it caused wounds for me, too, and he continually kept poking at them. And when I'd get angry because I felt like he was intentionally hurting me, it was my fault.

So yes, I think that people can have successful relationships when one person has ADHD. In my case, it's never going to happen. As far as I can tell, he doesn't think he has anything to apologize for since ADD is something he was born with and he doesn't see any reason to change.

What's Troubling in Your Description

Submitted by kellyj on Fri, 04/17/2015 - 20:33

...of your husband is.....the very thing I was saying is getting extended onto you but he doesn't see that it's coming from him in the first place. ( the wounds and poking at them). Unfortunately, this does seem how these things work sometimes and it possibly confirms what I was saying. He doesn't or can't see his part in this and only see's the part that is affecting him....and probably still doesn't understand why himself? What you described in how you feel is probably something close to what he is feeling inside and purging it onto you. I don't know that for sure but it is something that happens? A similar thing happened with my wife and I, but it was not in the way you are describing. With me, I was past the things I was saying as I said, but I still was extremely susceptible to her anger which came out as character assassination instead of directing specifically to something I did or even specific topic she was upset about. This was very confusing since it didn't tell me what she was so upset about in the first place? Seemingly, blown way out of proportion? We finally figured out that her anger was more to do with anxiety and venting than it was anything productive. She could not tell me exactly what the problem was at first and all I saw was someone who appeared out of control of their emotions with a need to dump them all onto me. This would set me off which is all she could see. At that point it didn't matter who or what started the problem and we both were doing our own version of the other one like two people playing tennis and the ball is the issue. It's pretty hard to figure out what the problem is when two people start doing that! We did mange to get there but it wasn't easy. She had to admit some things that were not easy for her to see in herself first before she could admit them to me ....and I had to find some more of my own at the same time in order to do the same thing. This went on for quite some time but when we finally got to a certain point where we were both sick and tired of it.....that's when it rather quickly began to change.

I know that from the sound of it....a lot of people here have tried everything and it still does no good. I understand and I wish I could give you an answer to this but I can't. I don't know why that is seems that some people with ADHD get there and other people don't?

But you can use what I said to help you realize it is not all about you.....even if you already know this but still had no answer for it. At the very least....I find that getting the answer to why sometimes helps to change how I see someone instead of just staying angry which is only bad for you in the long run. In this case, the benefit for you to understand even if he doesn't will help you not absorb any more of his purging than absolutely necessary onto yourself and you can just walk away without taking it personally? I'm not saying that's easy to do either but it's better than the alternative?

One last thought about what you said that reminded me of something...not so much to help your situation but might be of interest anyway. I've been using another analogy for years to try and describe the thing you were saying about tunneling under or finding a ferry service....I like that by the way:)

Anyway....yes, that is what I've done and who knows what drives a person to do this? How I described myself or even my theory of what happens upstairs for a person with ADHD (in their brain) Picture a dirt road where everyone drives down the same section with two set of tire tracks.....all of sudden it rains for days and right in one spot becomes a huge puddle that now everyone must go around. Eventually...after this happens enough times, there becomes a second road around the puddle even when it's dry but everyone keeps going around the spot anyway which eventually becomes the new section and permanent detour instead of going that way around only when it rains.

I think that's a fair description of what it's like. I'm sorry to say that it sounds more like your H just stopped at the puddle and turned around went back where he came from? If it's any consolation, I've have been there on your end before in my own life and maybe that's why I'm not doing the same thing?

Could be?

PS what my wife and I are specifically working on is getting to know each others sensitive spots ( the wounds ) so we can make sure that neither one of us pokes their finger in them. That has been extremely helpful in our relationship. Along with that just recently......making some rules to follow when it comes this. Still defining exactly what those are but that's certainly not a problem. Neither one of us want to go there again.!

Some Harsh Reality....on the edge

Submitted by kellyj on Sat, 04/18/2015 - 15:21

I had some time to think about what you and so many of the non spouses here are saying in that their ADHD spouse (usually husbands in this case ) seem eternally stuck or entrenched into this thinking that they don't feel the need to change or do anything about their ADHD parts that are affecting and hurting you. I also was thinking about Melissa's own story and her husband and how they almost separated and called it quits before they could come to some kind of understanding and a way to effect real change in their relationship. In a very real way....I have come to this same place with my wife now (and in the past in my marriages before). In both case....I was not given the choice to stay married as it was not an option for my ex wives. And not to defer too much here but only to say that my choice of partner had a lot to do with it as far as my 2 ex's integrity, or lack of it was concerned. Be that as it may.....they still experienced with me all the things that go with being with an undiagnosed individual with ADHD but were not willing to deal with it which as I said before.......it the stark reality that a person has to come to when this happens to them whether it be ADHD or for any other reason. For me.....it is what brought me to find out and how I was diagnosed in the first place.

But thinking....it took something like this in both cases with me and in Melissa's example in facing some kind of ultimatum whether it be overt or implied. It still is what brought these old wounds right to the service in a very real way so I could see them and either face them and deal with it or not.....but the alternative was to either be alone or have a partner......and when it came right down to it, I had to make a choice.

I think the best alternative would be to find help and get it that way. But like I said.....it took something really big to shake me enough to get me there myself. If a person with ADHD is never confronted with having to make this kind of choice....I could see them never doing it for the reason I already said.....to face it and go through the pain. I don't have any idea how long your H has been in therapy or any details to that.....but therapy was instrumental for me in getting to this place and allowing to come to these things in part.....on my own and in my own time. But that's not to say it wasn't working or I wasn't changing all along the way even if my partners at the time could not see this change from their perspective. It happened gradually enough that a person wouldn't not necessarily notice any change on a day to day basis.

So this poses the question for you........what are you waiting for or wanting to see from him as your own proof that he is changing? The change has to come to your thinking first and then it gets translated into action. If a person is changing there thinking.....you aren't necessarily going to see that. This is one really important and frustrating aspect to this. If the person that you are with thinks nothing is happening....you will accused of doing nothing when if reality...you're actually doing a lot! Changing your thinking alone is exhausting and emotionally draining. It's hared work and take a lot of effort all by itself even if you do not do anything to change your behavior or put this into action yet. That's part of the time needed right there. This however, it does you no good in the time being but it is required in your own ability to wait. I'm not saying that you have not done this but.....here's what's concerning in what you said.....

Some of these things that you mentioned are direct symptoms of ADHD.....loosing track of time, or getting lost in the moment doing things and then suddenly realizing you didn't call or to say your going to be late so your spouse doesn't worry. For a person without ADHD...this is likely not to happen very often or maybe not at all depending on the person....but, if it did the same thing he did....saying for you...that would mean that you were not being thoughtful or thinking about the other persons feelings......and you'd be right. Normally, that's what this would mean and it would be an accurate and fair assumption to make. Regardless.. it was hurtful and made you feel diminished and you took it personally for all good reasons.....and then would get mad at him for this infraction and understandably so.....including to him. He understood this too without a doubt, even before it happened.

This is such a typical scenario and the source for all things to go wrong for a person with ADHD. I can tell you without question...when this same thing has happened to me, that it was never my intention to hurt anyone or be disrespectful. All the usual normal reasons not to do this I fully understood, and yet ....it would happen anyway without any intent on my part. Trying to explain why and how this is not intentional to someone who is hurt by it is a recipe for disaster. I know this all too well and again.....know all the reasons why that it NOW.

But before...all I knew that this kept happening to me unless I became ultra vigilant and mindful ( seemingly at the time ) and even then, I would do it even when I would try my very best not to. I had no way to explain it, no real reason that I could think of but.....at the same time, I didn't do it because I didn't care about other's feelings or to do with anything that I could simply explain away in an understandable way???? And yet....knowing all of this and knowing what would happen if I did, trying my best to avoid this and not let it happen again......it still happened. Like ...WTF? I can't stop doing this? Where's the problem? Why does this happen? I don't understand?

Now.....I have even more reason not to do it than before.....my wife's hurt feelings and her anger. Adding this on top of not being able to stop or even knowing how to stop in the first place just ramps this problem up even more. The problem is not knowing how to stop doing this........it's not that you don't understand how hurtful this is for you. And it has nothing to do with how much you care or that you are a bad thoughtless person who doesn't care about anyone else feelings. None of that even comes into play here. It's the ADHD

Now I can explain what happens. It's part of the hyper focus aspect of "time standing still". If you are in hyper focus mode....time does stand still and you aren't thinking about anything else when this happens. Literally. I mean, literally. All other thoughts, time, other people, anything else is narrowed down to only the thing your doing in the moment. Everything else disappears. This is why the hyper focus in the first part of the relationship feels so wonderful especially for you. the amount of attention or focus you receive during that time probably feels like nothing you have experienced before with someone else....but hyper focus is a temporary thing.....but it is not artificial or not genuine either....in fact, it very real for a person with ADHD. Another way to say this is....when this happens, you lose the normal ability that you have ( including us with ADHD) to think about and do most anything just like anyone else including: paying attention to time, paying attention to other peoples needs (and thinking about them ) and doing all things the same as anyone else. But to repeat.....you lose your ability to do this when you hyper focus. It's gone. From 100% to 0%...and then back to 100% when you stop. This aspect is something a person with ADHD has absolutely no control over...none. There is no intention, no control and no ability to stop these things from happening when you go into hyper focus mode.

This appears to be the thing that most other people cannot understand or even comprehend because it does not exist in your own repertoire of understanding or experience yourself in how this can be possible? And yet...not only is it possible, it happens with some of us (me) exactly as I described when it happens. I have no choice in how hyper focus works......either all on or all off. I have no ability to choose or alter this in anyway like someone who isn't like me. Nothing I do or try to change this fact will do anything to make this effect stop or to change it while it's happening. That's the important aspect to this....while it's happening.

So if a person does not understand this about themselves, or even WHAT is happening? They are not going to know what to do or how to change it in any way. It's not intentional, it's not by choice and you can do nothing to change it while it's happening. The only thing you can do is to become aware of it and predict it ahead of time so these things don't keep happening. But...to predict it ahead of time requires some planning and strategy and doing things differently in the first place. And that's not possible if you don't understand it first. So it keeps happening? It is a Catch 22 situation with other people when they don't understand this either and take this as an offense to them and place their own attachment to what this means to them and how they feel because it.

So....if you are still being hurt (either now in the past )...it's because you aren't allowing for the simple fact that this person cannot help it and they can do nothing to stop it until they find other ways to work around it which does take time and effort to do. You don't have to like it.....but you also don't have to be offended or hurt by it because it has nothing to do with you at all and is not done for any reason other than they have ADHD. That's the reason. In the same way we have to accept it, you can accept that this person isn't doing it intentionally to hurt you and predict that they are going to keep doing for the reasons I just said. So the question becomes.....can you live with this or not? Is this a deal breaker or can you just accept that this is not something that won't happen...in fact, it will happen and you can either choose to accept this or not. If you don't accept it...it's not because you can't understand that this person can't help it....it's because it causes you problems personally when they do. But the one personal problem that is not necessary for you or even fair or accurate to say is that they don't care or they are just doing it to hurt you because that is not true. What is true is that you don't like it when your H does this and that much everyone understands....including us.

This is the point that you have to make a decision. Accept it, predict it and move forward and not be hurt or take it personally...he isn't doing it to hurt you and getting angry or upset because it's offensive to you only makes matters worse Everything I was say before comes from this place...the anger that we see and how that affects us when we don't realize that there really is more you can do (work around it...tunnels under the river lol) or whatever?

But first we have to get past the fact that you have every right to feel the way you do at first and we can't take it personally either....FIRST. Everything I went through telling you was part of this process in coming to this full awareness of this fact so we don't take thing personally when people do not understand the reason why these things happen. In other words...it's normal for you to be upset or angry when your H forgets to call and say he's late. Most people would. And most people would allow this to happen once in a while if that's all it was. And if it keeps happening....it's also normal for you to be angry and start beginning to feel hurt by this once you've made it clear just how hurtful this is for. The normal and easily understood expectation is that they would stop doing it if they cared? And if they didn't care....they wouldn't stop. That's the problem. The person can't stop no matter how hard they try and it's not because they don't care.

If you believe the things I said....then it shouldn't hurt you once you understand this. If it does....then you can ask yourself why? Not liking it or being annoyed is not the same as taking it personally as an offense to you which is really what hurts.

Taking it personally says "if he really cared he wouldn't do it." No, this is wrong. "If I was important to you, you would stop" No, this isn't correct. "Because he won't stop doing it even after I get angry and tell him it hurts...this means he doesn't love me or think I'm important." No...it doesn't mean any of those things. It means every time he loses track of time, it's because when you go into hyper focus mode....that's what happens. Like I said...there are things you can do to counter the effect by planning and practice ahead of time...but you can't do anything about the losing time aspect once your in hyper focus mode..

So what are you really angry at? Him or the hyper focus that he cannot help? And if you really truly believe that there this isn't real...then you are not accepting that they cannot help it either. And if you believe that this isn't true......you're never going to be able to let go or the hurt you feel from it. There will always be a way to justify your feelings if you feel that somehow your H does these things because they are directly at you in some way. Which they're most likely not.

This is the hurdle you need to navigate in your own thinking to this.....it's not intentional so therefore it's not hurtful. He's not doing it to you personally. In fact, he's not doing it for any reason other than what I said most likely....to himself more than anything but that's not saying it doesn't have a negative effect on you or your household. No one including myself will make that argument for a second.

This is the place you need to speak to him from......."You know.....when you do this, it causes me all kinds of problems which are all legitimate ones. Nuts and bolts logistical problems....you dig? So now.....what can we do about this problems?" That everyone understands including us.

Not...."you hurt me, you don't love me, your an asshole, your doing this just to make me mad, your doing this just to get back at me, your doing this because............" Worst thing you could do. Telling your H he is doing this with intention only makes us feel worse than we already do and will have this very effect........... Feeling worse, more hopeless, more helpless, wanting to get away, anger, yelling, calling names ( whatever)....I quit, Fuck it.

You can probably set your clock by how predictable this response will be. Every time without fail. If I was a betting man....I'd put every dime I owned on predicting that your H will respond to you in some variation or fashion or what I just said. Guaranteed!! I know nothing about your husband or anything else to know that this is where this is coming from if that is what you are seeing?

Hindsight is 20/20 and I can tell you this was me in my past for exactly these reasons. It's such a predictable response to the same things that happen for the same reasons...that's why it's so predicable. Either one person ( you ) or the other (him) need to change something. If both are waiting for the other to change you wil both be waiting forever and it won't happen.

In my case, it was me who changed...but I did this before I met my wife and knew about all this stuff with lots of past experience....and I still had to go through much of it anyway to get give my wife a chance to learn and understand how not to take things personally like I'm saying to you. And still....I had to take repeated hits for quite a while in everyway possible and thought I was going down a few times too....while at the same time I was aware of everything that I've said to you in this thread......and it was still hard but.....I gave her the time she needed to get there and not come completely unglued at the seams myself....... even knowing what I know and telling my wife up front ahead of time what to expect. In the moment when she would be upset or angry at me for the same things....(but now, way, way less...dramatically less than before)...she's still feel hurt and upset at times and I had to let her be that way and not say anything until it got to the place of her telling me why I was doing it and assigning some intention to it. That's the place I had to stop her because there is no intent.

But if your H really doesn't care....that's a whole different issue. You're fighting a losing battle if he doesn't care and he probably won't do anything about it at that point. The reason I just went through this with you in thinking that this really was where most of the problems my wife and I were running into. Getting her to the place where she could actually see that I wasn't doing a lot of things for any other reason than ADHD especially things like not calling if I'm going to be late is not anything to take on to yourself because there is no reason for it. The reason is really what I just said with me...but I also know a lot of ways to keep myself from doing it but it takes some time to work into my daily habits as well.

I can't really know what your specific situation is, and I'm not being presumptuous in thinking that this even applies directly to yours. I do know how hard it is from witnessing this in all other areas of my lifetime to know that it is not an easy concept to apply to someone...... when they do things that are upsetting to you for all good reasons...and not to think it doesn't have something to do with you in some way. In this one exception to the rule....it really doesn't and you don't have to take it personally. For your own sake....you can stop doing that to yourself and accept just that much.

DUPLICATE POST DELETED

Submitted by kellyj on Sat, 04/18/2015 - 19:48

I know everyone is different,

Submitted by AlmaVera on Thu, 04/16/2015 - 15:59

I know everyone is different, so I'm only speaking for myself. I wouldn't say a blanket "Never say 'Just do it.'" Sometimes, that really is the nudge I need -- when done with support and encouragement. I know that it is very easy for me to get stuck -- either in a shame spiral when I haven't done something that I know I should have, then I beat myself up for it, then become paralyzed, etc., OR stuck due to procrastination or being overwhelmed or fearful of failing. Having someone giving me a gentle, loving kick in the ass, telling me to take just. one. step. forward. helps me to do just that. Remind me that I can do it -- tell me you have faith in me. Remind me that I always feel better once I start doing something, anything to move forward, no matter how small. I would probably get there anyway, but it will take me much longer on my own, and both of us will have been irritated (or worse) that much longer.

Sometimes I feel like I want to say, "Just because I don't do/think/process the same as everyone else, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily the most effective way for me to do those things. I can change. I can learn. Don't beat me up for something that isn't my fault or choice, but don't tiptoe around me like some precious flower who will fall apart if you ask me to change the way I do something. If I can ask you to, you can ask me to."

Does anyone else feel this way when you read things that are supposed to be from the ADHD viewpoint? Or am I weird? No, don't answer that one. I know the answer to that one already, lol.

Same

Submitted by Geese on Thu, 04/16/2015 - 20:05

I do feel the same way. I've given up on holding out for people to handle our issues with compassion. Adhd is not seen as a disability but an annoyance for people who aren't adhd. About thinking differently, I also agree. For me its the only thing that seems to still be there after I take meds and try hard to be organized and productive. I guess we just naturally find alternative ways to do things.

Again, speaking as someone with it,

Submitted by AlmaVera on Thu, 04/16/2015 - 22:32

Again, speaking as someone with it, but also as someone who's been a partner in two relationships with men with it (one diagnosed, one not) -- as we here know, by the time someone's diagnosed as an adult, they run a really, really high chance of having some other co-morbid psychological condition. That also makes any kind of article that claims to have a blanket list for 'everyone' loving a person with ADHD, or telling all people with ADHD what to do for their partners, really kind of bogus.

Depending on any other co-morbid issues that may also have gone untreated for years, there may be a pretty wild range and mix of symptoms and behaviors --- in both partners, for that matter. I mean, think about it -- is someone with lifelong untreated ADHD, who's also developed ODD or severe anger issues going to have the same exact relationship issues as someone with lifelong untreated ADHD, who's developed depression and anxiety over not being able to fulfill what that person sees as his/her role in the family/marriage? Absolutely not!

Good point

Submitted by Geese on Thu, 04/16/2015 - 22:45

Yeah I think journalists often simplify complexity by replacing hard to understand conepts with emotional drivel designed to make readers look at the ads in the publication/website... Lol

J -- I think you explained

Submitted by AlmaVera on Sat, 04/18/2015 - 16:59

J -- I think you explained the mechanics of how and why this happens very well. It makes a lot of sense. I know that in my own situation, dealing with the effects of these things on the receiving end, I can understand what's going on and why. I can do my very best to not take it personally. I can express my feelings about how it's affecting me in just the way you suggested (I have, in fact)....BUT when you receive a response of "Well, this is just how I am," period...then it is personal. It should matter to the other person that their actions are causing me annoyance because their being late caused us to modify plans that maybe also included other people (a ripple effect). It should matter to the other person that their lack of contact for spans of time or lack of interest or concern cause hurt feelings and turn into a loss of emotional connection. And it follows that if those things do matter, it will lead that person to want to find a way to minimize the actions (or behaviors or symptoms) that are causing problems -- not just for others, but ultimately for themselves as well.

But what happens if being faced with the end of a relationship or marriage doesn't cause a person with ADHD to react the way you did? What if that person goes into 'victim mode' and treats their ADHD as something immutable and fixed like eye color? No, a person with ADHD will never be non-ADHD. But many things that adults (especially) do are learned behaviors -- sometimes learned coping skills that the person fell into through his or her life to mitigate their symptoms. That doesn't mean that's the only way he or she can ever do things. I think that sometimes, there can be a false impression that 'not ever being non-ADHD' means 'not ever needing to make changes in behaviors.' In some cases, getting a diagnosis seems to validate the ADHD spouse in their belief that any relationship problems come from the non-ADHD spouse's lack of understanding or compassion about ADHD. Neither of these beliefs are true. I'm not saying it's 100% the other way, either. I'm saying -- as you've said about your own life -- that people with ADHD can change. But just because their spouses are understanding, or compassionate, or educated about ADHD or anything else...doesn't mean that their ADHD partner will feel compelled to do a single thing differently, or to be compassionate toward the other partner.

It is true that sometimes the very things that cause the most problems, that seem the most inconsiderate or selfish, are unintentional and just an expression of symptoms. There are very often workarounds, especially now with all of the apps and reminders and schedulers, etc. that people in prior generations didn't have. If someone tells an ADHD partner that their constantly running late or forgetting things is getting to be a major problem for them, then I'm sorry, it IS up to the person with ADHD to get out his or her smart phone and find an app that will let them put in a schedule of where they have to be or what they have to do and when. It does require a change in how a person does things. But seriously, if someone with ADHD has a car that they usually drive to work, and that car is going to be in the shop, requiring him or her to take the bus for a week...is that person still going to walk out to the garage every single morning for the next week and try to drive the car that isn't there? No. He or she will walk to the bus stop. That also requires planning ahead and change of routine, and I would bet that the majority of people with ADHD would be able to manage that.

It's those kinds of things that make partners throw their hands up in frustration. When the changes and behaviors are selective, it becomes obvious after a while that some things change for a person with ADHD because it matters to him or her. Period. Not because it matters to the spouse or kids or anyone else. It won't matter how nicely you speak or how much you understand or how compassionate you are, if the person with ADHD isn't on board, nothing is going to change.

I'm not minimizing anything here, either, let me tell you. I'm struggling with this myself right now. But the point is, I am continuing to struggle with it because it matters to me. I know I am not 'neuro-typical,' but that doesn't mean my brain is static. I've learned enough and read enough to know that's not true. I've seen it with my head injury. Multiple doctors have told me that it's been difficult for the tests they have to pick up the difficulties I've been having because I'm intelligent enough to have already created work-arounds - even within weeks of the injury. But, after talking to me about my daily life, and having friends who knew me before and after the concussion fill out interview forms, it becomes very easy to see where and when I have problems. Some of those work-arounds were not even things I was aware of doing, and as such, they are not always the best work-arounds. I have now started therapy to un-learn them and re-learn more effective ones. I will be incorporating these things into dealing with my ADHD, too. Science is showing that the brain is far more capable of change than we've previously thought.

I think in many cases (not all, by any means) beliefs about what we can or can't do affect us far more than what we actually can or can't do. So what does this mean in a relationship? I think it means the same as it does in any relationship. It is not going to be fulfilling for both partners if both partners aren't invested emotionally and actively working on making it so. And if that's not what's happening, then the unhappy partner has to make a decision of whether or not s/he can live in that constant state of unfulfillment, and really let go of the idea of something getting better. That would be true whether they were dealing with ADHD, or substance abuse, or infidelity, or mental illness, or any of a number of things.

AV "Well, this is just how I am," period...

Submitted by kellyj on Sat, 04/18/2015 - 20:34

This is such a huge mistake in thinking and to say in those moments. period! lol

I used to say these exact words when I was kid....but I stopped saying this out loud long before I was an adult. That's not to say that someone who says it is still being like a child , but I think it does pinpoint (possibly) right where they have left off in their own thinking about their ability to change even if they don't realize it. It will come out in those moments that are the same ones they said it as a child......more of a "Freudian slip" I think? It is really telling though.

And I'm the first one to say that I have done this myself in those moments without any awareness at my disposal.

I think in many cases (not all, by any means) beliefs about what we can or can't do affect us far more than what we actually can or can't do. So what does this mean in a relationship? I think it means the same as it does in any relationship. It is not going to be fulfilling for both partners if both partners aren't invested emotionally and actively working on making it so. And if that's not what's happening, then the unhappy partner has to make a decision of whether or not s/he can live in that constant state of unfulfillment, and really let go of the idea of something getting better. That would be true whether they were dealing with ADHD, or substance abuse, or infidelity, or mental illness, or any of a number of things.

I couldn't agree with you more....words right out of my own mouth! But how do you know? Is it ADHD or is it really something more insidious in a persons thinking?

Back to my example of not calling if they are going to be late. For me in this example...it's not insidious or intentional. But I apologize profusely anyway and willing to take my lumps in the moment if this really causes my wife a problem that I could not foresee.....waiting for me because she had plans that she needed the car for as one example. What I do now if something like this happens....is take full responsibility for it meaning.....I fix the problem I created and go out of my way to do whatever extra work I have to do so it doesn't affect my wife. In fact, I will try and make any situation like this a win/win for everyone. What this means is....I have to completely stop whatever I'm doing or planning and change my plans if that is possible. Clean up as you go. That's one thing that I have learned may not be as good as not calling in the first place....but it's a close second, and close enough where no one is really harmed by it. That's one thing you can do. And the willingness and effort it takes to do this is not something that other people cannot see. I can tell you.....people notice including my wife. If there is one things she can count on me for consistently......is to do something like this even when I am not consistent in ways that creates the problem in the first place.

This is so easy for me to do now......I can't promise I will always remember to do things. but I can promise to everything I can to make it right in actions not just "I'm sorry." In fact, I say "I'm sorry" when it is appropriate...but "I'm sorry" becomes meaningless by itself if you don't do something to make sure you are also taking responsibility for your actions. I've found between the two......I'm sorry is a poor substitute for the actions even if you don't say the words. The actions mean a whole lot more and implies that you are sorry and that it matters.

I like what you said......because it matters. That's where actions speak louder than words even if you have ADHD and even if you screw up because of it (that includes the times like I was saying in things you cannot help because of ADHD.

FYI: I didn't want to confuse what I was saying to make the point but.....I actually have learned to control my hyper focus to a great extent. I've learned how to turn it off and turn it on when I need to do something where it becomes an asset instead of a liability. When I'm in hyper focus mode....I still can't do anything about the "time standing still" phenomenon......but I have learned to break out of it, intermittently......to check time and do a reality check before going back in. These are the work around's that are possible and a lot of this came from beginning to believe that I could do something about it instead of believing there was nothing you can do.

What's true is the time thing....I have never been able to change that aspect and I still wouldn't have any way of knowing how even if it were possible. But....when it comes to finding alternative routes.....I've always been pretty good at doing that. Like your Dr was saying....you already had alternative routes in your brain before your accident....sometimes it just takes a little time to find them:)

My wife gave me a compliment the other day saying "you see solutions instead of problems" I can't disagree with her there! (ad nauseam ) lol

Thank you, ADHD spouses

Submitted by 20YrVet on Tue, 04/21/2015 - 16:14

I just wanted to quickly say "Thanks!" for the thoughtful comments from the folks on the ADHD side of the equation, particularly JJamieson. J, I really think that if my spouse were as thoughtful about the situation as you are, it would save a world of hurt. I hope that I will be able to convince him, eventually, to go to counseling with me so that we can, perhaps, engage in much-needed dialog about how each of us affects the other.

Thanks.

Back at You 20YrVet

Submitted by kellyj on Tue, 04/21/2015 - 16:29

I appreciate it. AV has made some great contributions that have really helped me as well.

thanks

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