Submitted by Standing on 08/03/2014.
In marriage or in any close relationship, don't you expect to get some feedback from your "other"
when he (or she) acts upon some suggestion you've made? It doesn't even have to be a suggestion. Could be a simple thought expressed... anything (examples are failing me)
I was recently told - in context of a discussion about lack of communication and intimacy - that I do not HAVE to know whether something I've said has had impact. I was told that it's OKAY if i never know. That all any of us can do is plant seeds (ideas, i guess?) and it is perfectly natural and Fine if we never see results.
umm... Well, it's not okay with me!
Is this in the manual, too?? Has anyone else heard it?
Hi Standing Here's my two cents worth on the subject;)
Submitted by c ur self on
I was recently told - in context of a discussion about lack of communication and intimacy - that I do not HAVE to know whether something I've said has had impact. I was told that it's OKAY if i never know. That all any of us can do is plant seeds (ideas, i guess?) and it is perfectly natural and Fine if we never see results. I suggest you accept this as the person's reality...for your own peace...Also, the desire to change and meet your expectations if they believe you are right, probably is there...But, to have to communicate it back to you, makes the person feel broken (best description I can come up with) So, it very humiliating for a spouse with add/adhd, and one without it as for as that goes to feel like they need your help to normal...I say this because, when my wife and I have had sessions (mild name) where I encouraged her to see things differently, or change her responsibility level toward this or that...She usually would argue, or withdraw, and then later without a word, I would see her trying to modify her life style in the area of concern. To please me...And if I had stressed my concern earlier about the subject in an stressful tone...It would break my heart...If your husband loves you, he cares about how you feel, even if its hard for him to meet your expectations at times...So, just know he does here you...
okay..
Submitted by Standing on
Goodnight;)
Submitted by c ur self on
I do understand your feelings standing... the hardest part is to lay yourself out there fully committed, just desiring that same love and commitment that we both vowed at the alter...Then when you try to discuss what we think should be easy to talk about for two people who are truly committed and in love...And you get nothing back...not even an excuse...But we just can't force it...That's an illusion...nothing beneficial gets accomplished when its one sided... except a whole bunch of frustration...
eggshell walking
Submitted by Standing on
I know you will do the right thing....
Submitted by c ur self on
(I must honor my vow? Seriously?) For better, for worse, in sickness and in health, until death we do part...Yes you do:)...Remember it's not about this life! But, the good news is you don't have to hold onto your anger...If your husband completely changed today, because you wanted him to...It wouldn't last...Do you get what I'm saying? You get what you see with people, He will have to see the need to ask God to help him change...Do you realize how many people live there whole life and die...and truly never confront themselves, c who they truly are? So take a step back...Try to disassociate yourself from the desire to change a man who see's no need to change...If you're praying for your husband, loving your husband, and being a daily example of a person dependent of Jesus...You are doing all God requires of you...And like I told someone else...The peace and Joy that you will experience in Jesus, can't be taken away by the acts of others...Even the person you are one with....We all will reap what we so....That's a promise from God...I understand about people pleasing...about trying to meet the perceived needs of others...As I viewed it...Just hold yourself accountable to keep your dependency on Jesus...
c ur self: broken vs. right
Submitted by dedelight4 on
c ur self: I agree with what you've said. I have my questions though. It's sad to read your wife may think with ADHD that she might be "broken". What if the spouse doesn't believe they are broken? what if they truly believe they are "right" and YOU are "wrong"? It's a world of black and white, wrong and right, yes and no....with little to no give and take......which a marriage TRULY is. It seems that WITHOUT give and take, you don't have a marriage, you have a "responsibility". I do think you are in somewhat of a different situation, because you are retired, financially secure and able to separate yourself financially from your wife, when we as women aren't able to do that as much. We have to be dependent on someone who can't fully be depended on, and make decisions with them when they can make decisions that can be devastating to the both of us, just "because" they make the most money/or hold the purse strings so to speak.
Don
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm not so sure she feels broken, but, she has a bad case of Add...and she was mistreated and hurt and cheated on by the two guy's she was engaged to, (the boy's Dad's) she also raised two boy's with God's help alone...Also, I know we both brought a lot of baggage and a ton of difference's into a late life marriage...51 and 46. I don't know what is in any person's heart about themselves who suffers' with the effects of Add. I know she refuses to talk about it with me...A little better lately, I think she is starting to like me again:) I agree with you about being a house wife, vs being a man in my position when it comes to options in this life...But, the end results are still the same...God is no respect of person, his love is his love...And a divorce is still a divorce. So let me get this right...So since you don't hold the purse strings...and I have to pay the bills around here...You need more faith than I do? ;)
I agree with your post dedelight4....
Submitted by c ur self on
But, as long as we are perishing carnal beings w/ stuff like add/adhd to deal with, life will never be fair, some of us will need more Grace to get through...We aren't all cut out to handle things in the same fashion...So God has put others in our lives to love and help us...So he can be glorified.
I understand your point of
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I understand your point of view, c ur self. But actual life gets in the way. Example: I ask my husband for his input on important decisions. But my husband does not respond to messages. Nor does he initiate communication about anything. So, do I make decisions on my own, even though I'm married to a person who has a high IQ and probably has an opinion on the decision and who is legally on the hook for certain matters because we're married? Or do I not make decisions, because of all these factors and because of the fact that no one would look at him and talk to him and say, yeah, you're right, he's incompetent, and can't participate? That is life with my husband with ADHD. How I feel about my husband's ability and disability doesn't matter one bit when it comes to what the rest of the world demands of me as a competent adult.
I agree totally rosered
Submitted by c ur self on
Being a wife isn't a curse to following a husband down a road of irresponsible behavior...But, on the other hand having to make sound responsible decisions isn't an empowering tool to not be a loving submissive wife either. ;)
c ur self
Submitted by Standing on
I do want to do the right thing, but I will probably argue the beans out of it on the way toward that goal.
Don't you think it's different for a man? The man is commanded to love his wife as Christ loves the Church, so that his wife MAY respect him (Subjunctive, in the Greek. Don't blame me, my pastor preached on this yesterday!!)
I know that we must forgive, no matter what, but restored relationship is based on trust that is earned, right?
Sounds like you are advocating a sort of Don't Ask/ Don't Tell scenario?
Please 'splain further. Thanks.
Oh ;) Standing...
Submitted by c ur self on
Do me a favor and do your own study of every scripture concerning husbands and wives....Start with Genesis 3 where God curses the serpent, man, and woman...Then go to the new testament...And just spend some time with it...:) I'm not dodging your question's but, I will say one thing here...About 3 years ok...I new every one of the one's she wasn't doing Ha ;)...So now, I'm really trying to focus on the one's for husbands...And you are right with what you posted... I will get back to this...My wife is about to be home and she wants me to read to her ;)
Point taken, c ur self
Submitted by Standing on
Thank you. I think that I will ask my husband to read to me. Just for 10 minutes a day. Starting with Genesis 3. ;)
i'm with you on this
Submitted by Friwi on
Having studied a few communications papers, I learnt that effective communication requires feedback to be provided. If the feedback loop doesn't happen, then you are said to be flouting Grice's maxim of communication which means that effective communication is not happening.
So being met with silence does my head in. My hubby is a scientist, a numbers guy, but even though I showed him the textbook with a technical blimmin diagram with arrows and everything, explaining how to communicate effectively, he still didn't get it. We even went to a therapist who told us over and over and over again how to provide validation. If I'm lucky if my train of thought stimulates my hubby [and thankfully he loves the same philosophical and existential questions that i like to ponder] then its all good, but heaven forbid I ask for feedback on something about real life, like what we should have for dinner? silence. Do you want to go for a walk? silence. What colour should we paint the shelves? silence. Hello? silence.
Yikes!
Submitted by jennalemon on
Could this be an ADD thing? Dh does not acknowledge when I walk into a room....or when he enters a room. There is not even a glance in my direction that I exist. He does not look up from his crossword puzzles and seemed to be agitated if I interrupted his important focus on his diversion. These small rejections constantly over decades is REALLY an issue. You can say you should just overlook it and understand that "That is just his Way" but it is psychologically damaging to the person who is ignored so often and so regularly.
Jennalemon, sounds to amateur me
Submitted by Standing on
more like a self defense mechanism to ease anxiety.
I have cultivated a similar habit where my add husband is concerned. I have trained myself to not notice his quadrillion movements and utterances per day, because if I took note of every movement and word, I would go thoroughly b o n k e r s.
It's probably the avoidant in me, but I have built quite a sturdy shell around my awareness where it comes to him. It's my safety zone, that I can carry around with me, since I'm with him nearly 24/7 and fear that I otherwise would melt into a shapeless glob.
Ignoring and invisibleness
Submitted by jennalemon on
Even an animal is psychologically damaged if it is constantly ignored for decades. No amount of intellectual, emotional, practice or maturity can make up for constantly being ignored by someone.
See me. Feel me. Touch me. Heal me.
Submitted by jennalemon on
Not acknowledging a person's presence is a form of mental abuse. It doesn't matter what the reason for the inattention is, being ignored is like being rejected and it makes a person crazy - like being ostracized. It FEELS more like a power ploy than innocent character defect to the person being ignored and taken for granted.
Then I owe my husband an apology
Submitted by Standing on
Thanks, Jennalemon. I had not thought of it that way.
Apology?
Submitted by jennalemon on
Dear Standing, I was saying that he was ignoring you for not giving you feedback as he does not respond to you.
We are so quick to blame ourselves for their inabilities.
Oh. Jennalemon, I think it is also my inability
Submitted by Standing on
I've healed through alot of what made me a People Pleaser, but I do tend to still be a Freezer.
You know the reactions to conflict - Fight, Flight, or Freeze? It still has a paralyzing effect on me, in the moment.
You're right, he does not give me feedback. If he says anything at all, he just keeps repeating his stance or explaining why he is right, which pretty much devalues or negates anything I might have said.
But I have been ignoring him, and when you posted about the effects of that ignoring, I felt quite guilty. I was not doing it to punish him or to make a point, only as a survival technique. He is a give-him-an-inch-and-he'll-take-a-mile guy. In full mania, he is everywhere at once and making all sorts of noise to show that he exists. I don't ignore him when he speaks to me, I simply don't acknowledge his numerous attempts to get my attention, which never cease. I know that he will probably not be able to stick to it, but I am going to give him a window of time during which he has my undivided attention, then let him know that the rest of the time, I will be Tuned Out. Truly, it's like being mama to a tiny infant, when you have to respond to every little bleet or sound, to ensure the child's welfare. I've raised four children. Nuff's nuff.
I say yes, definitely his mental make-up...
Submitted by c ur self on
My wife is the same...She seems to be either hyper-focused, or unable to focus...There isn't much relaxed awareness time for her...Or should I call it emotional middle ground...Does that make sense? Examples...If she is putting a puzzle together, or is into a TV show...She hates disruptions, And will show frustration with me if I just walk through and try to get her attention...And being a man I have deduced ;) its because she is working so hard to stay focused, once she is interrupted I feel it's hard for her to get back to the level of concentration she was shaken from by simply asking if she is hungry ;). And because she is so Add...and a women...When I am watching a ball game or something...She will walk into the room and just stop, expecting that I should all way's be on alert for her..lol...It works best for her if she is naked;)
Standing: I think so
Submitted by dedelight4 on
"In marriage or in any close relationship, don't you expect to get some feedback from your "other"? "
Standing, My answer to that question is Yes, but in my marriage also, it's something we haven't had. Again, If I always "listen", don't ask any questions, don't have any opinions and especially don't ASK for anything, we get along "fine", in HIS world. But, that isn't who I was when we were dating, or first married. I was bubbly, happy, did my own thing, took care of my daughters, went my own way, and he LOVED that. He wants that now too, but he doesn't want to have to GIVE any input for love, attention, sex, intimacy, etc. He should just "get it all". (narcissism) I'm given out.
Spoiled?
Submitted by Standing on
Dede, Maybe it's as simple as being spoiled rotten? That narcissism keeps coming up in my mind, too, but when I think of the way my husband has talked about "unconditional love", I wonder...
He has often held up his grandmother as the epitome of unconditional love. Basically, sounds like she held little standards for him (and others), and was always there to help. That reminds me... he has told me on several occasions that the women who raised him (his mother and aunts) always built him up and told him how wonderful he is. He has expressed to me that he used to wonder what it was they thought was so wonderful... it didn't compute, to him. Isn't that a classic recipe for creating a narcissist?
I feel like - if we could get a break from all this, just cleanse out all the junk, then maybe we'd be equipped to take a fresh approach toward tackling this sort of terrible-two-ish-ness. For instance, instead of "asking" for anything, offer an opportunity? "I would like to ______, but first, it is important to me that _______. Bargaining? As for disagreeing... it would have to be a fairly vital issue for me to even consider taking that on now. What I am thinking of doing is - write down the non-negotiables, ask for his agreement And Signature during a visit to the counselor, make about 100 copies of it, and be prepared to hand one over next time one of those controversial issues arises. Maybe I'd better make 500 copies to start.
:)
wow. same mothers
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Standing, My husband's mother did the very same thing. (and grandmother) His mother praised him for absolutely EVERYTHING, and he did very little for it. His mother didn't get married until she was in her late 30's That was UNHEARD OF back in the 1950s. My husband's older brother (at 18yrs) was diagnosed bi-polar and paranoid schizophrenic (alcoholic) and his younger sister (alcoholic). His brother was hyperactive as a child, and his mother COULD NOT HANDLE a hyper active child. She called the kid names, told people she couldn't stand him, and told me she "never liked him, because he "bothered her" ". (sheeesh) She wasn't ANY kind of mother. She didn't show love in the traditional sense, like hugs, kisses, affection. Plus, she was incredibly nervous, was a chain smoker, drank coffee and ate pastries. She "babied" the youngest one, my husband's sister, and made his sister dependent on their mother for the rest of their lives.
My husband was the middle child, was the exception because he got straight A's in school (unlike most ADHD'ers) but he was a loner. He only played by himself, didn't have any friends (except one maybe) and his mother would PRAISE HIM endlessly for "not bothering her". She would tell everyone who would listen, that my husband was the "good child". He got praise for things he didn't even deserve praise for, and I mean EXCESSIVE PRAISE. She didn't want to be bothered with her kids and just wanted them to leave her ALONE. Of course, kids don't DO THAT. But, since DH kept quiet, played alone, and left HER alone, "he was the special child". He WAS a good kid, he was funny and did have a good heart, was kind and talented. But, I think his mother changed something in him, and SPOILED HIM.
Most parents praise their children for saying "thank you", learning things they need to do, taking out the trash, picking up their toys, doing EXTRA little things, etc......you know......lots of things. But, you don't get praise for "leaving your mother ALONE". When he was a little older 12yr on up, he would make her coffee on Saturday morning's. His mother praised him to NO END about that. She would say, "Who's child DOES that for a mother"? "I don't know any"..."He makes me coffee, NO CHILD makes coffee for their mother". I used to think that was weird, because I did nice things for MY mother all the time, just because I loved her. My mother didn't praise me for just doing something "nice" for her. Lots of times she would, but I never got EXCESSIVE praise for that. Plus, I did many, many things for my parents. We were taught to just "do" that for each other.
Anyway, The whole thing was just weird. But, his mother praised him like this HER WHOLE LIFE. and praised HIM well into HIS adulthood. (it wasn't healthy at all) But, what I came to learn, was that DH expected ME to praise him like that AS WELL. Praise him for literally ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. Even when I would say a heartfelt "Thank You", it wasn't enough. He would keep mentioning it over and over again, trying to "get' more compliments repeatedly for the same action. It got to the point to where I would think...."This just isn't normal"...."Why does he want this?"...."After 4 or 5 thank you's....isn't that ENOUGH?" Plus, after begging for SO MANY thank you's, wouldn't it seem like you are making the person trying to "fake it", just so you can hear praises? Can you say NARCISSISM? That's the only thing that makes sense at this point to me, because this goes WAY past ADHD. I could be way off base here, but I don't think so. Something's just NOT RIGHT.
Dede, the praise continues to this day.
Submitted by Standing on
His mother is still living. We don't see her often, She had him at 17, her first, her only son, and he is now 48. She has had several nervous breakdowns in years past and his sister is diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. So many similarities!
my theory:
I think it's the only input-receptor that's active for him... the Praise receptor. Maybe it got formed early enough, by such repetition, that it stuck.
I admit that I'm bad about being stubborn and when I know he wants more and more, I dig in my heels and don't want to give up a smidgen. That's a resentment I definitely want to work through for myself.
( He wants that now too, but
Submitted by c ur self on
( He wants that now too, but he doesn't want to have to GIVE any input for love, attention, sex, intimacy, etc. He should just "get it all". (narcissism) I'm given out.)
Help me with this...These kind of comments are truly "Greek to me". Is there men like this? The only people I can think of that lives like this is my Mother and Step Father who I visited yesterday...There has never been much affection between them...One I think he married her out of need, and she accepted out of loneliness. His first wife had committed suicide and he had three children, and desperately needed help...Mother when into this situation and felt used, mistreated, unappreciated by the children, and never felt loved by my stepfather....And now at 80, she is so bitter. She never shuts up and will talk about him to me, with him setting right there....Last night, he was trying to make a point, and she was interrupting so bad, he walk away shaking his head...I couldn't help but speak up and say Mother if you will let him finish, he was trying to tell you something...She raises her voice at me and said i know what he going to say...She had already read his mind...Plus she thinks I'm always taking his side. So, I new it was time to hug em and leave...Its one of the saddest thing I've ever saw:(
c ur self
Submitted by Standing on