Wow. For 17 years, I have felt completely alone in dealing with my severely ADHD husband. I hate that so many of us go through this, but it feels like such a relief to know that I am not the only one on my team.
As I said, my husband is severe ADHD. His doctor says that it is the most intense case she has ever treated. for years, I've described it the best way I can, which is, "it's like being married to Jekyll and Hyde". On one hand, when things are going his way, he is the most magnetic person on earth. Nobody can get enough of him. He's that way, consistently, at work, at the church where he is a youth pastor, and out in public. At home, we (me and our 3 kids) never know if we are going to encounter that guy, or the raging psycho who uses every single one of our insecurities to just callously lay us open to bleed to death. Every single attack leaves me reeling, and I can never quite tell where it's going to come from. He screams, he curses, he twists our words, and deflects blame of everything, he hits below the belt, and goes out of his way to not fight fair. It is slowly eroding the very being of who I, and our oldest daughter, are. she has (super) high functioning autism, and he has absolutely no patience or tolerance for her quirks. and me, I'm starting to feel like he just genuinely doesn't like me. Our youngest daughter, and our son, also have a severe ADHD diagnosis, and the three of them are all on meds. He has infinite patience for our son, and near infinite patience with our youngest daughter. Every bad decision they make, every choice, he attributes to their diagnosis, and does not hold them accountable for. which, he also does with himself, after he has come down from the height of a rage.
I see so much of what he does to our family, in all these posts I'm reading on here. But our main difference, is that he is only this way at home. Only this way, with us. He is the Golden Boy of his company- incredibly successful, and known and adored company-wide for his easy going, kind, magnetic personality. He is ridiculously beloved at church. every single one of our friends think that I am the luckiest woman in the world. He never loses control unless he is in the four walls of our home. He has lost control on my mother, and my grandmother. But nobody else in this world, except for me and my children, know what he's capable of. last night, after a particularly hurtful, degrading, heart-wrenching rage against me the night before, I asked him what would happen if he acted that way at work. And he told me that they would call the cops on him. So, it's mistreatment and abuse severe enough that someone would call the cops, but it's good enough for your wife and your children? If, on the way to church, one of us sets him off, he can rage at us in the car the entire way there, and then calmly get out of the car, and put his arm around our children, and kiss me on the forehead, and literally not show an ounce of indication of how maniacal he was 5 minutes prior. the therapist that I talked him into going to for a little while, before he raged at her and told her that she was twisting things to my side, called it "apparent competence". is this really a thing? Or does he just respect his job enough to try harder?
Is this common? Can anybody else's spouse hold it together when they want? Because that truly makes it feel like he does have control over it, and I'm/we're just not worth the effort. I don't know what to do, or how to help him. Reading all these accounts, I see that it's a real thing. So, am I just destined for a life like I've been living? Walking on eggshells and pacifying him? Catering to his irrational behavior? I'm completely torn, because I am blindly, hopelessly in love with the man that he shows the rest of the world. The man that he showed me, when we were dating, and engaged. Though all the damage he has done to me over the years, has made me a little less enamored with his charm.
Regardless, 18 years together and 3 beautiful children, is enough to make me want to make this work, if it can.
Do I have any reason to hope that he can change the way he makes us feel in those moments, or do I just need to get out, finally?
cjhunton,
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
cjhunton,
Is this common? Can anybody else's spouse hold it together when they want?
Yes. I believe it is because he only has to do it for a set amount of time. Holds it all in with smiles for everyone, and then let's it loose either starting on the ride home, or else later on in the week.
Though all the damage he has done to me over the years, has made me a little less enamored with his charm.
What I have learned for myself is how to fix my own self-esteem. Originally I wanted to figure out, "What the heck is my spouse's problem and how do I fix it?"
Now, for the most part, I have worked through that pain, and come to the point of seeing the man I love, trapped under a bunch of emotional baggage, and all the poor coping mechanisms he developed to manage his ADHD when he had no clue what the heck was going on with himself. It is hard to watch.
Thus, my desire to be away from it - -as it costs me dearly to be in and around it all the time.
I have also learned how to step back and love him as a spouse. thus discerning what I should do and what I shouldn't . An example: It is not up to me to get him on a schedule, and make sure he calls his customers, and push, push, push him out the door every morning. It IS a kind and loving thing to gently wake him up if accidentally left his phone - which is his alarm clock - downstairs in his shirt pocket. Or remind him, when we all get involved in a tumultuous day, that he has an evening appointment with his coach.
I hope my spouse will work on his own stuff. Then and only then can we work on partner stuff. Took me almost 4 years to get to this point, so I understand your struggle.
Liz
Liz, thank you. I appreciate
Submitted by cjhunton on
Liz, thank you. I appreciate your insight. He's known he had ADD for most of his life, but he's only been on medication for a year. We've only really just begun to understand what it does to him. And I am at the very beginning stages of learning what he might need from me, in order to cope with it. I hope I can learn to be what he needs. I hope that there's hope that he can get to a point where rages like that will never happen again. and if they are inevitable, I hope I get to a point where I can see them for what they are, and not judge him directly for all the terrible things he says/does to me.
Sure thing
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
cjhunton,
Unlike many posters here, I did not have any physical abuse, we do not allow character assassination in our home, he does not drink, do illicit drugs, nor have an female friends outside of our marriage. And with all those plusses, the negatives have been more than I can bear. His anger is draining. His inability to take responsibility for his own actions is draining. His inability to say a simple "Oops" when he makes a mistake is draining.
I could even learn to live with his forgetfulness, and disorganization, and poor administrative skills. . . . .but years of unforgivness of others, not allowing anyone to help him, micro managing everything, anger and those darn self developed coping skills are weighing him down.
Liz
Liz
he's more competent than most
Submitted by cjhunton on
He has some of the forgetfulness, disorganization, and he's very, very messy. again, all at home. At work, he's a hyperorganized neat freak, with an incredible attention to detail. But aside from a whole lot of the vibrating with nervous energy, fidgeting, he's really just all about the rage. No financial immaturity, No indulgent impulses. just perfectly fine, and then blind rage.
Love the neatfreak
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
cjhunton,
I had have many a customer rave about how I must LOVE having a neat and tidy husband, because if he is working on someone's kitchen sink, he empties everything from under the cupboard - to make room to work - then he cleans it all up for them to replace their items under there. He also cleans all the debris and sawdust etc., from the job.
I wish I could share a photo of the hydronic heating systems he and my son have installed! They are works of art. Perfect. Perfect soldiering, so neat the photo could even be used in a magazine as an advertisement.
LOL.!!
Liz
must be real
Submitted by cjhunton on
I guess apparent competence is a real thing, then, huh? it kind of sucks that the very environment we tried to create for them, their safe zone, is the very place where they feel like they don't have to try. therefore, the ones who go out of their way to make sure they feel unconditionally loved, are the ones who have to suffer.
Kudos
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
cjhunton.
A very astute comment. It took me years to realize what you so clearly wrote. I was provided the "safe" dumping grounds, and then cleaning up the mess too.
I want to be the safe place to fall, the safe environment to let loose a bit, but not the trash receptacle for all the crap that belongs to others. Including any of the resentments he has picked up over his lifetime. Somehow, my words channel to my spouse through those terrible filters, and it makes communication a real mess.
All these things impede his un-addressed ADHD symptoms. In themselves, they are not truly ADHD symptoms. Complications of them, maybe.
Liz
The doctor may be holding back...
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<<
husband is severe ADHD. His doctor says that it is the most intense case she has ever treated.
>>>>
I would wager that the doctor knows/suspects that there is something else that your H has, but knows that your H couldn't handle hearing it, so the doc just sticks with the "more acceptable" sound of "severe ADHD," rather than ....he may have a personality disorder or something else. Maybe clinicians avoid telling patients and/or spouses that the patient has something like BPD, NPC or other Dx's that they know that the patient won't accept...and would likely discontinue treatment out of anger.
Anger/raging isn't really an aspect of ADHD....but it is an aspect of OTHER mental conditions, particularly BPD, NPD, and a few others
Would your H allow you to talk to his doctor privately? If so, can you ask the doctor if he thinks that your H is suffering from a co-disorder?.
How this reads..
Submitted by sunlight on
"..he told me that they would call the cops on him. So, it's mistreatment and abuse severe enough that someone would call the cops, but it's good enough for your wife and your children?"
He is a bully. He does it because he can. What consequences does he face? At work he'd get fired. In front of colleagues, friends or church acquantainces he would lose social status. In front of you and your kids - you don't do anything but accept it, life goes on, so long as he is happy you can be allowed to be happy, when he is not happy you must suffer. In future years he may find his kids distant, or find out that they don't like him, but that is not-now and - given ADHD - that may as well be never, and if (mysteriously) never somehow happens then he will deflect the blame on to you for being a bad parent and turning them against him. He may even find himself divorced, but that would be not-now and right now he must squash and suppress you, because that is how he feels better about himself.
"If, on the way to church, one of us sets him off, he can rage at us in the car the entire way there, and then calmly get out of the car, and put his arm around our children, and kiss me on the forehead, and literally not show an ounce of indication of how maniacal he was 5 minutes prior".
So, what would happen if you, on arriving at church, said quietly and calmly "If you ever speak to me and our children that way again while we are in the car with you then I will call a taxi and return home with the children, and I will not travel again in the car with you until or unless you are civil" ?
"3 beautiful children"
3 children who are being bullied - and their futures and their perceptions of themselves and their worth inexorably altered by being subject to the Mr Nice Guy/"raging psycho who uses every single one of our insecurities", good cop/bad cop Pavlovian treatment. I'm not sure this all stems from his ADHD, have you discussed your fears of the impact of his behavior with your children's doctors? Or is this all behind closed doors?
"I don't know what to do, or how to help him"
How would you deal with the situation if you found out that one of your children was bullying others? You might look at it from that angle.
do you live in my house?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<<
In future years he may find his kids distant, or find out that they don't like him, but that is not-now and - given ADHD - that may as well be never, and if (mysteriously) never somehow happens then he will deflect the blame on to you for being a bad parent and turning them against him.
>>>>
This is exactly what's happened in my house. Our kids dislike H, and he blames me for it. He says that I turned the kids against him. HE TURNED them against himself.
Even when he wasn't being mean to THEM, they could see that he was mean to me....and they didn't like that.
it's already happening
Submitted by cjhunton on
with our oldest daughter, at least. There are times when our youngest daughter resents him for how she saw him treat her sister, or me. The little one is 9, the only boy, and completely doted on by my husband, so no, he thinks that is pretty great. Although, after the episode the other night, where he heard my husband call me a moron, he did call my husband down about that on his own. And then he told him "my mom is not stupid. And you're wrong, Dad. We should speak words with our heart, not our mind." which, of course, broke my heart.
it occurs to me that the majority of our fights happen late at night. Is it possible that there's no more medicine in his system, and he was just completely over fighting his symptoms for the day? but, he's the one picking fights, and coming after me. Is there anything I can do to make him aware of this behavior, if that is the reason? If he's not in the positive frame of mind, then he will not be receptive, at all. and once he gets started, he can't stop, until he is emotionally empty.
Only rages at home
Submitted by CarrieHalliday on
Hi CJHUNTON,
Have you studied Borderline Personality Disorder? It is very frequently diagnosed co-morbidly with ADHD and or Bi-polar. Borderline Personality Disorder, BPD, only happens in relationships. BPD is a relational disorder. BPD is an emotional disregulation of the mind. Please be very careful what you read, many professionals will villinize the BPD person. Your husband sounds classic BPD. So is mine. Mine thinks very paranoiac and convinces himself that everything I do is for some evil secret motive and he also blames me for EVERYTHING. The constant rage attacks for some thing that you supposedly have done wrong is so intense and humiliating and demoralizing that you may feel like just disappearing some days and never coming back. Please read "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder: How to Keep Out-of-Control Emotions from Destroying Your Relationship" by Dr. Shari Manning. You can also find her conference video on Youtube. Also read the biography "Get me Out of Here; My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder" by Rachel Reiland. BPD is a condition that happens to SOME children when they are born "sensitive" (ADHD) and they develop in an invalidating environment. Your husband has learned certain coping techniques that are ineffective, never the less its ALL he knows. Dialectical Behavioral Therapy is THE cure. Yes BPD is 100% curable. See AJ Mahari on Youtube. Transference Therapy (see Dr. Yeomans on Youtube) is extremely reliable when done RIGHT. Many counselors won't treat a BPD person precisely because of the rage attacks but the rage attacks indicate that the counselor was on the right track. YOU can do MUCH. Learn validation techniques from Dr. Mannings book. I love my husband dearly. He takes a simple thing such as me closing my laptop to give him my full attention then explodes saying I must be hiding some email transmission from him, like communicating with his ex-wife, and we must for sure be planning something against him. A man stops me in the grocery parking lot to ask me for money and suddenly I'm having an affair with him; my husband explodes saying that I must think he is an idiot to think he would not find out about "my boyfriend". I pause at the bathroom door to see if it is occupied and because he was in there I go onto the next bathroom. He explodes saying that I was SPYING on him. These explosions are absolutely overwhelming for me. His tone of voice and accusations seeth with absolute hatred. A friend can knock on the door when my husband is raging and instantly he is his wonderful self. YOU NEED SUPPORT. Smart Recovery meetings are excellent. Read and Study and GENTLY insist that your husband get Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. Validate YOURSELF (DR. Shari Mannings book). Validate him; it REALLY works!! Dialectical Behavioral Therapy runs in a 6 month cycle and its beneficial to take it twice. I gently insist every chance I get and I tell him over and over again that he needs to do this for the kids. It is very abusive for the kids to be present during the rages even if he never touches you. Our first appointment for the DB Therapy is Feb 18th 2015. Please please educate yourself and stay away from any literature or youtube videos that talk negatively about BPD. BPD is a very painfull place mentally for people and they have the highest rate of suicide. They drive themselves in a perfectionistic state and punish themselves. Most of what your husband is doing is projection. He will accuse you of doing the very same thing that HE is doing. He projects his self hatred on you because it is too difficult to accept himself for the bad as well as the good. Once you understand you will see things differently. You can learn to validate his FEELINGS and you can tell him very openly and calmly what you will and wont accept. You will find freedom and so will he.
my sister, a therapist, has long said that my H has BPD
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Although I know my H has ADHD, it is very likely that he also has BPD. He has most of the symptoms.
raging, splitting, irrational, paranoia, doesn't take responsibly, etc. He truly is a nightmare that never ends., .
We have the same "only at
Submitted by ICanSeeClearlyNow on
We have the same "only at home" problem, but not to the extent you're describing. With my husband, he can be incredibly patient and good-humoured at work and can sustain it for the 6 and a half hours he's with his students (he's a teacher). But when he gets home, if one of our kids is having a bad day, he can't handle it for 5 minutes...I think he knows he will lose it, so he walks away and sits in front of the TV. It's like a pacifier for him. I do think his work day exhausts him and I almost wish he had a job that didn't involve working with kids, because then maybe he'd be more patient with ours when he gets home.
Having said all that, what you are describing, as a few of the other posters have commented, is over the top and would be very frightening for children. We teach our students (I'm also a teacher) that one of the first things to do if you're too angry to deal with something is Walk Away. It's the number one thing. If he's this out of control, he's got to learn to find another outlet so the kids and you don't take the brunt of everything. The TV thing with my husband drives me nuts, but I'd rather him be distant than abusive. That would be the first thing I would be at him about (walking away) if you truly think he can make any changes. But as a teacher, I just worry when I hear what your children are living with on a daily basis - walking on eggshells, feeling that stressed at home, can't leave them much energy to focus on what they're learning in school. In fact, what they display at school, may look like ADHD, but could be an anxiety reaction. My heart really goes out to you and your situation, but as a teacher, I really felt I needed to mention all of this.
Apparent Competence
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Apparent Competence
Apparent competence refers to outwardly being able to cope and seeming in control, while inwardly being completely lost, or mentally unwell. It does not necessarily have the ability to span all situations however, people may be able to shake off depression one day and but not the next. It is inconsistent. It can be dangerous as you as well as others may fail to recognize what it happening for what it is, false competence, until it is too late and things blow up in a crisis. Since others cannot always understand or appreciate apparent competence, cries for help are often ignored and people are assumed to be incorrectly “quite well” which further complicates the risks that are associated with this situation.
----
However, your H may have NPD....ask his therapist if she'll test him for PDs....he may be a narcissist.
Only at Home....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
For many years (over 2 decades) my H was able to have the "only at home" behavior with only a couple of "leaks". He never "leaked" at work until about 4 years ago....and this was after working over 20 years there. He never raged the same way, but he began complaining a lot, repeating the same things over and over., which really began to annoy people to the point that he was laid-off (but he took retirement instead). He had become a serious alcoholic at that point, which likely is the reason that he could not longer control it at work.
<<<<
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<<
I asked him what would happen if he acted that way at work. And he told me that they would call the cops on him. So, it's mistreatment and abuse severe enough that someone would call the cops, but it's good enough for your wife and your children?
>>>>>
I'm surprised that he admitted that. My H would either refuse to answer or would just keep repeating, "you deserved what you got."
Is this common? Can anybody else's spouse hold it together when
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
One reason he can hold it together at work is because THOSE people are not a source of his deep anger. YOU ARE. It's not your fault that you are. He has ridiculous expectations for you....expectations that no human can meet. Others can do the same "offenses" or even worse, BUT you are held to impossible standards. His relationship with YOU triggers a deep response.
That's the difference.
Exactly...
Submitted by cjhunton on
That, is the most accurate description I have ever heard, when I try to explain it to myself. You are exactly right.
agree
Submitted by where to go on
so why they want us to stay? to be punching bags? he made me stay by controlling all money, he depleted all our money, kept his....
A little clarification
Submitted by cjhunton on
thank you so much for all the responses. I've often wondered if he was bipolar. Before he was diagnosed with ADD, and I started learning about the impulse/anger issues, bipolar is what was on my radar. His mother was bipolar. I had no idea that ADD was usually comorbid with another diagnosis.
he is difficult. I'm not surprised that he admitted what he did about what would happen if he went off at work. Our entire marriage, I have been able to count on what I call the 12 hour rule. After he rages like that, I will get either the silent treatment, or abandoned (go to work, to a friends house, etc.) for 12 hours. When he comes back in 12 hours, he will be absolutely fine. Sometimes remorseful, sometimes justifying, but always calm and ready to put it behind us. I have no idea if this is common to any diagnosis, or if this is his own quirk. If I catch him in one of the calm states, he will either be self-deprecating and say he's not a good person, or he will very occasionally say that he knows he has a problem. For a long time, this 12 hour rule gave me hope. Hope that in 12 hours I could talk to him about what he said, and reassure myself that he didn't mean it. 18 years later, I'm tired.
as far as BPD or narcissism, I hope this isn't too much information, but he hates sex. And as far as I know, either one of those diagnoses either use sex to manipulate, or engages in overt sexual behavior. He hates to be touched. He detests kissing. This all sucks tremendously for me, because my love language is physical touch. He had an incredibly difficult childhood, neglected and unloved by a single mom. After she abandoned him at 15, with no one else in his life, he actually raised himself from the time he was 15. Bills, lived alone, etc. I didn't walk into this marriage expecting him to not have major issues, knowing where he came from. but he swept me off my feet, dazzled me for six weeks, and I agreed to marry him. Looking back, I have to wonder if he was hyperfocusing on me, which gave me something that I had never really had in my life. While we were engaged, he would get angry a few times, but not anything close to what he did after we were married.
personality, he's prideful. and arrogant. But not about physical. He would consider himself overweight, and average looking. He is not a narcissist peacock. My father is a narcissist peacock, so I know what that looks like. My husband is incredibly brilliant, and he knows it. He is a little bit of a know it all, very confident in his skills and abilities, and arrogant about that. Pride is his actual worst trait. I'm sure that stems somewhere from his extremely warped childhood/teen years. An absolute workaholic, and I think that is because work is where he shines the most. Where he can do no wrong, and he's getting constant awards, pats on the back, and accolades. I've tried to do that at home, but it just doesn't mean as much. He takes extreme pride in the fact that he got a job at 15, and worked his way up the corporate ladder from such a young age, into such a successful position, before he left. And now, with the new company, he is climbing even faster. He has never put us before work, he has a stronger work ethic than he does a family ethic.
he is 60% of the time a loving, engaged father to two out of three of our children. He is 40% of the time, a loving, engaged husband. Though not a touchy-feely one, by any means.
I have no idea if this gives you any clear picture of who he is, or what I might ask his doctor or even be dealing with. After the last rage, he is contrite, which is rare, and willing to see someone about the possibility of there being an underlying diagnosis. This is a first, and I feel like he finally knows that he crossed several uncrossable lines that night. He has far too much pride to ever be stricken with remorse, with the reality of how much damage he's caused. He doesn't like to talk about the aftermath. I made him an appointment with his DO next week, to see if she wants to tweak his meds. His medicine, by the way, is Concerta.
After reading some of the accounts on here, I have a new determination to give it one last chance, and truly look at him as someone who sick, and not just an ass. I don't know how much my mindset can change, I am a deeply emotional person, and his words have left deep, deep scars. On both me, and my oldest daughter, who is also a deeply emotional person.
regarding the hatred of sex. Is that common in ADD? I've read some other accounts of spouses who avoid physical touch.
i'm so glad I stumbled onto this board. As difficult as it is to hear that success is really in compromising accommodation on our part, I feel strangely tremendously better, just knowing that I'm not alone.
rage
Submitted by where to go on
I am going through something similar. It is no way to life the life. I feel drained, exhausted, tired. What is the way out? To take him to doctor it needs his agreement with therapy, but he thinks he is perfect.....