Rethinking Aggression and Defense in ADHD Relationships
How to help couples understand the destructiveness and intertwined nature of many of their interactions? I was reading a novel the other day about civil war (an apt analogy for many ADHD marriages!) and came across some ideas that I think can help describe why couples get into negative patterns even when neither one of them wants to.
Here are the quotes:
“Rarely do people set out to start a civil war. Invariably, when such wars break out both sides consider themselves to be the aggrieved ones…The moment one group feels itself so aggrieved that it uses either its own weapons or the weapons of the state to “prevent” the other side from bringing about its supposed “evil” designs, then that other side will have no choice but to take up arms against them. Both sides will believe the other to be the instigator…
It’s the lesson of Yugoslavia and Rwanda. If you were a Tutsi just before the Rwandan holocaust who did not hate Hutus, who married a Hutu, who hired Hutus or taught school to Hutu students, it would not have stopped Hutus from taking machetes to you and your family. You would have had only two choices: to die or to take up arms against Hutus, whether you had previously hated them or not.”
- Orson Scott Card, from the afterword of Empire
No one is wielding machetes in your marriage, though there is pain enough to go around even without the machetes. Card’s point is right on target, though, about how one must respond to protect oneself from aggression and, also, about how both parties feel the other is responsible. “If you hadn’t forced your ADHD behavior on my life then I wouldn’t have responded this way” and “It’s all your fault – if you weren’t so mean to me then I could do something about my ADHD!” are the common justifications for fighting in an ADHD affected marriage.
I’m more interested, though, in the first idea – that overt aggression about things that matter requires a response. Think about ADHD – the person with the ADHD isn’t aware of how his ADHD affects his spouse, but it really does – “aggressively” changing her life for the worse. As many of the posts in the forum attest – these aren’t small changes. The non-ADHD spouses are desperate, exhausted, ready to give up their marriages and all they dreamed of because their lives become so unbearable.
The non-ADHD spouse has her own form of aggression. In response to the unwanted imposition of ADHD symptoms, the non-ADHD spouse starts to attack her spouse – nagging, belittling, withdrawing affection or sex, and cutting him off from his kids are just a few ways that the attacks come. He can either hide in a hole/deaden himself or…fight back.
The most common way I see spouses with ADHD fight back is to take the position that their ADHD isn’t really the issue – or, perhaps, that they are “doing enough” for their ADHD symptoms. Their other option, to admit that ADHD is a core problem in the face of the onslaught, feels like surrender and “giving in too much”…which isn’t so likely in the "civil war" that many of these relationships turn into (think of the Rwandan example).
So both fight, in their own ways, and reinforce the need to fight further in order to maintain any semblance that they are in control. It’s sad that a truce is very, very hard to call until there is literally no other option – that is until one spouse asks for a divorce. At that time the pretense of control that fighting instills is shown for what it is – a sham - and suddenly the spouse who is being left realizes he or she simply doesn’t have control…and must approach their relationship completely differently.
But wouldn’t it be better if both parties could agree that they have no other choice right now – before they have so worn each other out that there is no affection left anywhere? That their current path is unsustainable...period? Moving away from ingrained aggressive patterns starts with understanding that the root cause of the issue is ADHD symptoms and that they must be effectively treated for forward progress. But I'm not letting the non-ADHD spouse off the hook here. She (or he) must understand the destructive power of aggressive anger – and the fighting response that it inevitably invokes. She might train herself to think Hutus and Tutsis next time she's tempted to lash out at her partner.
It’s a mistake to think that aggression helps (though it's easy to see why frustrated spouses turn to aggression). One might win a short-term battle - for example getting a chore done that would otherwise have remained incomplete. But though the battle is won the war is lost. Nagging, belittling, and shutting out are the machetes of the non-ADHD spouse’s side of the marriage, just as underestimating the effect of ADHD symptoms is the machete of the ADHD spouse. For an eventual “winning” of the war, BOTH need to step away from these things. Better treatment on one side. Counseling, reading, meditation, exercise, forgiveness…on the other.
Just as you were in lockstep in the escalation of your “war”, so too must you be in lockstep for its de-escalation. Neither partner can do it on his or her own. The crisis is jointly created and must be jointly – and simultaneously - defused. It doesn’t matter that the ADHD came first – particularly since the ADHD spouse has been unaware (and probably still is) of the complete effect of his symptoms. Not an excuse – just reality. The past is just that – the past. As in the ideal of any peace negotiations, the questions are can you move beyond and let go of your past? and where will you go from here?
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Thanks Melissa for sharing
Thanks Melissa for sharing what you gleened from the civil war book. While reading your post, I suddenly saw my marriage as though I was looking on from the outside....watching another couple as they have hacked away at each other. A couple that have both been Hutu and Tutsi. I felt a sadness that I have never felt before looking at this couple. I hope I can remember this the next time I reach for the machete.
I gave up temper tantrums
I gave up temper tantrums years ago. Anger doesn't work, and I'm tired of "dealing with it". After a long period of apathy, I've withdrawn and am starting to think that I am seriously depressed. The chronic communication issues have left me feeling hopeless. Apparently, my ADD husband thinks that his behavior doesn't affect me any more than mine affects him. He's decided that I had problems long before he ever met me and has been more low key lately, maybe he feels sorry for me. It's never a fair fight. There is no compromise. He will make sure he wins this civil war. I hate to surrender but, I don't care anymore.
reply to Clarity
I have been in your shoes Clarity, and I need to tell you that feeling hopeless and withdrawing doesn't work any more than temper tantrums do. My ADD husband of 30 years eventually had an affair in response to those tactics. We both would give anything to be able to go back a few years to do the couples work that we are doing now. Betrayal is a heart breaking experience to live through even if you "think" you don't care... Do yourself a favor and take another chance before it's too late. When Dr. Hallowell's new marriage book comes out, see if you can get your husband to read it with you and do the intimacy exercises. Good luck - don't give up!!!
Thanks for the chin up
Thanks for the chin up gr8memories, I hate to think that things could be worse! He has made changes that seem to have stuck these past few months so, looks like he's making an effort and that could be hopeful, could be an illusion... I can't seem to let my guard down, It's like I'm frozen, trapped in this 30 year moment, unable to dream and plan or hope... Maybe Dr. Hallowell's new book will give me something to think about, thank you!
My husband will make an
My husband will make an effort from time to time but it is only when he sees how frustrated I am getting. The effort never lasts and he goes back to his same old ways over and over. It is an illusion. I don't believe I will ever be able to let my guard down again. I do not feel nor see any sincere commitment from my husband that he truly wants to change anything. I am accepting this more and more as each day goes by and trying to plan for my future as many others are. I have felt the same way for a long time, frozen and trapped, with a man who never talked about hopes, dreams or plans. Now, at least, we know why but that doesn't help much after all of this time. I am trying to thaw out and go on.................
I understamd
I am very glad I have come across this site, I suffer from bipolar but I am stable. I have gotten sick in the past but at present I am doing very good. My husband just got diagnosed with ADHD- he has known he has had it but no one till now would see what he has known. All the same I feel like I am the stronger of the two of us, the one making things work. It can be tiring. He just recently gave up his job because he missed a shift- panicked and decided not to go back- No, this isnt the first time he has done this. I dont work, I have worked up until we got married though 6 yrs ago. Its hard dealing with his inability to "be a man" I hate being supported by the state and even worse I hate having my parents have to give us $25 so every so often to keep us going when they are straped as is- I am grateful for their help. But sometimes he can act so childish- and blames it all- everything on his ADHD which to me cant take all the blame- I dont blame all that I ever do good or bad on my illness, some I do simply because I choose to and not because it is making me. I feel your frustration, I never really had a temper till his ADHD really has been interfering. I love him, I am glad he finally is going to get medication and I hope it will help him do what he is meant to do as head of the house, as my husband. I know my parents worry about him, about his ability to do this. I want to ease their minds. Its hard being the one who does everything- except make the money in the relationship but I do the rest and its not easy. I hate insecurity, I hate being in debt, I hate not knowing if he will stick to a job. I hope things will change soon with the medicaton.
Heads Up
Heads up on this - it sounds as if your husband should be not only pursuing ADHD meds (and behavioral treatment, which will make his results better) but also should talk with his doc about anxiety issues. Anxiety is a VERY common, and very debilitating side effect of ADHD.
been there...
I completely understand where you are. I have been there myself. My ADHD husband thinks that I'm the problem. I felt like I had to cut off all emotion and expect nothing of him to survive in my marriage. But, obviously that is not the answer. The problem is that they don't truly understand what ADHD does to their spouses. I've tried to get my husband on this site so that he could see the other side of things but he's in denial.
What has worked for me is to stop focusing so much on him. I thought back to when I was most happiest in my life. I thought about what types of things I was doing and who I had in my life at that time. I began participating in the hobbies and activities that brought me happiness and reconnected with friends who were supportive. In this way, I was able to slowly bring myself out of depression.
I can sympathize
I have the same issue with my husband. He's convinced that it was me. He's even told his friends and family that it was me, and I can't even begin to tell you how much this hurt. Thank goodness that we--and I--have a fair number of close friends and family who can see the truth for themselves and don't believe a word of it. But my in-laws, no--they have blinders on as far as he's concerned, and they'll believe anything he tells them. It was painful enough to have my life and our once-happy marriage utterly torn apart my his disorder, but then to have him lie to everyone and tell them that he and his ADD had no part in this, and that I was the monster and he was the victim, was just too much for me. It's the saddest and most horrible thing I can imagine someone doing to you--destroying your life, and then lying to turn your friends and family against you.
He won't see an ADD specialist, I think partially because he doesn't want to be told that his mental disorder caused the disintegration of our marriage. I don't think he could take that, so he stays with a non-ADD therapist who tells him what he wants to hear.
I've very recently given up on him. Not just on the marriage--on my husband as a person. He's not a horrible man, but his condition--and his approach to dealing with it (or, more accurately, not dealing with it)--will be the death of me, and I have to get away from him. For months, I thought it was my job to "save" him and "save" my marriage, but I was getting so hurt from all of the misplaced blame. Finally, my therapist told me something that made me understand what I was dealing with, and now I just cannot see myself married to him any longer. She told me that if he continued to refuse to take responsibility for his condition and the damage it had caused (and was causing) to me and our marriage, and--worse--to pin the issues on me instead of placing the blame in its proper place, he was no better than an alcoholic or drug addict in willful denial. This was like a glass of cold water to the face for me. He has a condition, he knows he has a condition, and he's learned enough to know that it's what wreaked so much havoc in our lives and hurt me (and him) so deeply. For him to scapegoat me and to refuse to take responsibility for himself is more than I'm willing to endure.
I'm in the same "sinking"
I'm in the same "sinking" boat. Only difference with us is my husband realizes, finally, that most of our problems stemmed from this disorder. Still, he won't take the proper steps to help himself.
Mine won't see an ADD specialist, either. I'm sure it is for the same reason you have mentioned. My husband's counselor tells him what he wants to hear, too. Very frustrating as we are getting nowhere fast.
Luckily, we don't have many close friends and our families know about the whole deal. Blame is no longer an issue, thank goodness.
It isn't our job to save anyone or anything by ourselves. It takes the two people involved and when one doesn't do their part, it is an uphill battle. I guess that is where the loving detachment comes in and you just have to let go and let them deal with it themselves. It's no fun but it's the only way I keep my sanity.
I think what your therapist told you makes alot of sence. So many ADHDers are fighting addictions that help keep them in denial of facing the real problem.
I feel for you. You know how much you can take and for how long. All of us do. Hang in there.
ok, luckily you don't have
ok, luckily you don't have many close friends? It's sad that I can relate to that. Means I don't have to deal with any frustrating behaviors out in public. He's got such a gift for making me look like the bad guy, I'm always defending myself. And family? Both sides here are strained from the effects of this genetic disorder. One side is in denial and the other is enabling.
I'm so grateful to have found this site, so good share (and vent) sometimes!
So you are leaving him? I
So you are leaving him? I must say I'm envious at the thought of it. It seems so difficult and yet, so hopeful... just thinking of the possibility of a calm, structured life alone or even a simple relationship with normal problems makes me wonder. I'm not in a position to leave and don't know if I ever will be. I always thought I could very well find myself attracted to the same kind of situation again which would be awful! Your therapist is right. Hang on to what you know is true.
The best of luck to you whatever you do...
In a sense
He left me, physically, but I've finally left him emotionally. It's very freeing, and I'm optimistic about things for the first time in years. I wish I would have "left" him like this and let go long ago. Life is too short to be controlled and made miserable by someone else's blindness.
Of all the comments, I have
Of all the comments, I have read I can relate to this...I too... am jealous/envious of the thought,of leaving! I dream of stability, mature decision making, taking responsibility of one 's own actions.... a day were there is no phone calls to our home, with over due payments of some kind! Were calmness re-side's and there is some sort of structure...were I am not blamed for things, because there is some one eles in the house hold that has an issue, or problem, disorder...like ADHD or what ever!!!!will take responsibility for his own behaviors instead of turning it around to me!....He's on his 11Th job search, in our 5 year marriage. Yet, he clams if I wasn't so upset at his job losses... he things would run more smoothly...what? Is this about me or him??? I've held a job, thank you very much for 12 years, after a bitter first divorce I rose up, and got a job, and still have it! And, to top every thing off....I have a "new" physical diagnosis...RA, so I too am in no position to leave ...BUT, I sure do dream of the calmness and stability...a clean home:) that I use to have before I married. Please forgive me for if I sound angry...I am, I dont know what to do??? I wish I were well enough to leave, I wish I didnt feel so sorry for him,or feel I am obligated,beacuse of marriage vow's...beacuse I really think I would do it...leave!
Were does one turn...what does one do?
What helps me is
+ The room I've had to myself for the last six months
+ Lots of prayer
+ Music I can lose my self in
+ Listening to positive motivational speakers
+ Outings with friends
+ This website
+ An occasional glass of wine
+ A good workout at the gym
+ The steam room
he's not there
Hello BreadBaker...
Sorry to hear about your situation. You posted in my thread at http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/find-volunteer-slapper-your-husband-and-reason and I really wish someone would talk to your ADD husband, as he is not where I'm at with accepting my ADHD... he's still living life with a blanket over his head, stumbling and stepping on loved one's in his path... I guess for some it takes days to see it in themselves after they are diagnosed, for others is takes years or perhaps never can admit it. As soon as I was diagnosed and started reading about ADHD, how it affects marriages, talking to psychologists, a light bulb went off immediately for me. Unfortunately, too late, apparently my ADHD marriage wore out my wife and has too many others negatively influencing her.. she cannot forgive and is divorcing me.
To all the non-ADHD women on this forum, all I can say... you all must be very strong. If your ADD husband admits his mistakes, there is hope to stay in. If he won't admit anything, perhaps time to move on. After I was finally diagnosed, my wife didn't even give me a chance to see changes, so those of you that are still trying to save the ADHD marriage, you can at least can say you did and waited your best, that's all an ADHD marriage can ask for.
Thanks Dan
Hi Dan,
Thank you for your post about hope after a husband's acceptance of ADHD and admitting his mistakes. I (and probably others too!) needed to hear this since there are so many negative posts about the same behaviours repeating over and over again despite promises and attempts to fix the relationship... My husband has made an amazing turnaround and is now seeking help after the diagnosis. I have forgiven him and need to stay hopeful so that we can keep the momentum going. I am so sorry that your wife didn't give you another chance because it sure sounds like you hit bottom and are now able to turn your life around. Good luck to you!
Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." - George S. Patton.
Thanks for the note and wishes of good luck. Yes absolutely, this divorce is me hitting bottom, but it offers a springboard to bounce back and turn things around. ADHD has pros and cons, I'm finally discovering to control it to be successful in relationships and career. Thank you and I appreciate it, but don't be sorry for me... I am sad and feel worse for my kids but I know I'll be okay and will bounce back very high... be sorry for the ADHD families not as fortunate as you and your husband. You two making progress and staying together is a ADHD marriage success story, that seems to be rare on this site. A married couple both acknowledging ADHD, working together and forgiving each other is the hardest/slowest but most noble thing to do; we all got married for a reason! Divorce by comparison, is the easy and quick solution, why so many marriages end up that way. I feel sorry for so many of the discussion threads on this site... so many sad stories. Your story is good to hear and may offer hope to some wives and wisdom to some husbands. Thank you.
Divorce is neither easy nor
Divorce is neither easy nor quick. In fact, it is extremely painful and heartbreaking to give up on all of your dreams and hopes...to give up all of your shared memories. However, sometimes there is no other alternative. At least one person might emerge as a happy person, at least have a chance where there is none in the marriage. Quite possibly, both will since it seems the ADHD spouse only lives in the moment and often quickly moves on without even noticing the destruction left behind.
each marriage is different
Jeannie, what I meant is divorce is easy/quick in comparison to the couple trying to work it out. To work it out, it takes two... a wife and husband to put in countless hours of marriage work, time, devotion, will power, therapy, and asking counselors for "help us with our problem". But to divorce, it just takes one to call a lawyer to say, "I don't want to work on my marriage anymore without a guarantee, get me out" and lawyer replies, "no problem, pay me a retainer and I'll get you out, guaranteed". Lawyers can guaranteed you a divorce, marriage counselors cannot guarantee you a happy marriage. In most States, you can get a divorce in 4 months, even if the other doesn't want it. It's legally easy/quick to get a divorce, compared to emotionally staying and working on keeping a marriage for a lifetime. It's why 50% of marriages don't last... many marriages should end (violence, addiction, tiger woods, etc... and why the law makes it easy for anyone "legally" to divorce)... but honestly, many marriages shouldn't end (ADHD, miscommunication)... but it was the easiest and looked like the least painful choice at the time. Again, each marriage, each couple, each story is different... nothing should be generalized and I didn't mean to generalize. Put it this way, all marriages likely didn't go bad in 4 months.... but they sure can ended in 4 months, regardless if appropriate or not. Relatively, divorce is quick and easy. Perhaps not an easy decision, but once the right or wrong decision is made... easy to do.
even if divorce easy, aftermath may not be
Dan, I have to say I'm with Jeannie on this one. You make the point that a marriage counselor can't guarantee you a happy marriage but a lawyer can guarantee you a divorce. That's true -- but the lawyer can't guarantee you a *happy* divorce. And I'm not sure an unhappy divorce is any better than an unhappy marriage!
Various members of my extended family have tried divorce -- one wife almost drank herself to death during the divorce process from depression; one divorce was amicable; one divorce was very bitter. In the first case, the divorce process was dropped; in case of the amicable divorce, bitter disputes erupted after the divorce was finalized because the parties did not abide by the settlement; the third (bitter) divorce ended up with them remarrying after five or six years. So it seems to me that the process isn't always so easy, and what comes afterwards may not be so easy, either. And none of these divorce proceedings in my family involved minor children! Custody and child support issues are definitely *not* easy repercussions of divorce.
Divorce may be easy in some small number of cases where both parties are trustworthy and are parting as friends, or for anyone who has an "out of sight, out of mind" mental process, but I'm sorry to say that I've never seen it be easy for anybody else.
When ADD is part of the mix, divorce can get even more complicated and painful. The kinds of issues that created problems in the marriage can spill over into the post-divorce interactions. An ADD spouse who had trouble with paying the bills can have trouble paying child support on time. An ADD spouse who had trouble remembering to pick his/her kids up from school/sports/whatever may have trouble abiding by custody arrangements. There are many more opportunities for post-divorce problems.
Not easy at all.
Years, not days
As soon as I started typing that subject line, I remembered that this is how relatives of patients in a coma are taught to measure progress: in years, not days. I think that my husband is at the "years" stage, which is why I'm giving up and moving on.
A friend and fellow ADD sufferer did talk to him, and it didn't seem to do much good--he's just too far into denial. Maybe after he's ruined another marriage or two, he'll see a pattern, but I don't think he's emotionally invested enough in me or this marriage for my divorcing him to come as the jolt that would make him rethink things and take action. So, it's time for me to move on.
Thanks, I needed to be
Thanks, I needed to be reminded of that! It does take a constant mental effort to not focus on what I see every day. Sometimes I start treading water for a while though I know that I need to keep swimming, I just get tired of always swimming upstream. I'm going to have to work on a little attitude adjustment! Craft night anyone? :)
Yes!
Oh, yes. I've entirely rediscovered my crafty ways over the past few years, just as a coping mechanism, a way to calm myself after all of the household crazy-making. ADD Spouse Knitting Circle, anyone? ;-)
ADHD aka Civil War
I loved this! I have much to contribute later, but this is awesome!!! I would say inspired
reply to Clarity
I could have written these same words... Thank you for sharing. This helps me to know I'm not alone.
would surrender mean you lost
would surrender mean you lost the war or would it mean the start of peace in your life. This would make you the winner. This is the question i ask myself right now. Why do we continue to go back. I have no idea where my hope comes from that he will someday be the man I need my husband to be. I see change when I throw a tantrum and get angry but always for just a day or two. How long can i hold on. Ive said i'm done so many times i think he laughs when i say it, like yea right. I'm so sorry for anyone living the life i'm living and as i read this site I find quite a few and most don't give much ray of hope in things really changing over time just different way of dealing with the way we cope. It is far beyond my compehension as to how my husband thinks. I think he lives strickly in the present no thoughts of tommorrow or yesterday. When his mother died I saw him cry once, he has never once mentioned that he misses her yet he says he had a wonderful loving mother and childhood. He could go forever and never see his grown children, or wonder how they are doing. This makes me wonder would he even miss me if i left would he remember any good times? I feel like it would just be another thing that happened and on he'd go with his merry little self. He never shows emotion or supports me when i'm hurting. When our grandaughter was in a terrible auto accident which left her semi unresponsive he never once cried held me or offered any comfort. I have sooo much resentment he's never there for me. Why do I stay when will I go?
change in coping can make a difference
You say, "...most don't give much ray of hope in things really changing over time just different way of dealing with the way we cope..."
But changing the way we cope can cause other, real, important changes in the way you and your partner interact.
My husband was diagnosed with ADD 15 years ago, when we'd already been married for 20 years (but he didn't show many ADD symptoms when we married -- he had problems as a kid, "grew out" of it during puberty, then "grew back in" to it around age 40). Our relationship had been getting progressively worse before he was diagnosed. When he was diagnosed, there were no resources like this site or Dr. Hallowell's books to help me, so our progress was very slow, trial and error. I had to learn to understand how my husband's brain worked pretty much on my own.
By gradually figuring out how my husband's mind operated, I was able to figure out with him different ways for each of us to cope. That improved our interactions. I worked at reducing my anger, he worked at improving communication. His counselor suggested some other things we could do. Even so, my husband and I did separate for almost a year at one point. Now we are about to celebrate our 35th wedding anniversary, and we are doing better than we have for 20 years.
It takes a lot of work from both partners. We both have wanted to quit at times. It takes a lot of persistence. Medication and counseling for the ADD partner are key. Resources like this site and Dr. Hallowell's books can help understanding. If you and your spouse are willing to do these "coping" things, your relationship *can* get better.
Good luck!
Surrender means peace but
only on the outside. Inside, I am still not heard, my real needs are ignored by the ADDman who insists that I conform to his world. If I surrender, am I like a Stepford wife? It seems that he just wants me to behave favorably toward him and support him no matter what he does. It is near impossible to respond favorably to his unprovoked anger towards me and to just enjoy the financial problems he's caused. He wants me to be proud of him, look at him with adoration, hang on his every word... If I neglect the confusion and turmoil in my heart and put on a false front, all is peaceful on the outside. I've actually tried this for a time... It's not me. There is no true interaction, no exchange, no partnership. I feel neglected, abandoned and alone in a marriage that I never dreamed possible. If I could go, I would.
The US got through the Civil War
And perhaps like the US Civil War, where the tragic, bitter divide between North and South eventually ended and the states united once again to became much stronger than ever before, this is also the best that families dealing with ADHD can hope for. Thank you for such a well explained article of insight.
Trying one more time
In my last note, I told of how my husband found an apartment and was moving out on Friday.
Well, we were meeting at the bank on Wednesday to close and separate our accounts. We met there as planned. As we were walking up to the door of the bank, he decides to have this great revelation of how much he loves me, not because of what I can do for him, but because of who I am. He said all the things I was hoping he would say. He said we are worth fighting for and he gave the promises of what he would do. I told him I was terrified to try again but I loved him and was willing to try because he loved me. We did not close our accounts. On the way home he picked up a pizza and I picked up some wine. We had a good conversation and I shared this web site with him. He really seemed encouraged. He seemed anxious to learn from this web site and find new tools to use to help rebuild us.
He agreed that we needed healing and said he would do all these wonderful things. Can anyone guess where this is going............ He has taken the puppy out all weekend without prodding. He has been a little more attentive. As far as checking out this site, or looking for a job to supplement his 32 hours or doing tasks around the house or yard, forget about it. He has not gone to this site once. He has not scheduled the wonderful weekend away that he was going plan for us.
We are right back to where we were before. The only difference is, I feel like I was "played" and I am more stuck than ever. It took alot to admit to our families that there were insurmountable problems and our marriage was over. Then it took alot to tell everyone who was so supportive of the split that I was giving him another chance. I think our youngest daughter is actually mad at me for giving him another chance. She has said I deserve happiness and she has seen me unhappy so long, she doesn't even remember if I ever was happy.
We had an arguement this morning over his continuous naps and patterns of "doing nothing". His statement was, "why should I get up and work just because you decided it is time for us to get up and work?" I understand his point, but we had such a big 'to do' list that we did not start with our list, we would never get it done. These things were 'have tos' - not 'want tos'. We had gotten out of bed one hour earlier. How can someone need a nap one hour after he gets up? Especially since he had had several naps on Friday and Saturday. He has no sickness, he is not yet 50, he only worked 32 hours this week and took a nap every afternoon after work!! He makes me crazy.
So I ask, now what do I do? I will not go back to living the life I was living. (Or will I?)
one more time
The napping pattern, assuming he's getting about 7-8 hours of sleep at night, suggests a possible depression (very very common with ADHD) or a sleep disorder that means he's not getting good sleep. You might suggest he talk with his doctor.
Why didn't you go ahead and separate out the bank accounts in any event? Separate finances don't necessarily mean you would get divorce, but it's a step towards independence that sounds as if it might help you feel more in control of your own destiny. It would also reinforce that you are serious about changes really needing to happen. Feeling played is the worst feeling...
Whether or not you keep the apartment depends upon your financial situation - can you afford to have that back up?
I would suggest that you keep moving ahead with what you need to do for you - be very clear about your goals, what you need. Perhaps you needed to feel as if you should be responsive to your husband's overtures. Yet now you are in a worse position than before and feel burned. So, back to the drawing board...From your brief description it sounds as if you would benefit from setting a very specific time frame for him - "I need to see these specific, measurable improvements, along with evidence that you have put new systems in place to sustain those improvements, by X date or I will be moving out. I will be as supportive of your efforts as I can, but understand that I will not be taken advantage of, nor played for a patsy." Think of it as "loving detachment". In the meantime, you may want to consider separating out the bank accounts anyway so he can't clean you out in a fit of pique.
sounds like I wrote this
Hi
I just read through your post,it caught my attention beacuse it sounds like I could have written it.My husband got "layed off" from his 11 th job before christmas...(noteing your post date 11/1/09) today is Feb.14/10 and he still has not looked for work...he too takes way too many naps!I feel your fustration...whats a wife to do????
I hope things have changed for the better for you:)
Forgiveness for myself
This blog about aggression has revived me to try once again to make my marriage work. Tonight I lay in my bed feeling completely stuck because once again I used an intensively aggressive tone to try to get my husband to do an important task that he has continued to avoid for weeks. Once again we spent the evening in separate rooms because he completely shut down and I couldn't talk to him without yelling. Over and over as I lay there was the refrain in my head: "What can I do? What can I do?" I knew within the first year of being with him that he probably had ADHD, and I was the one who encouraged him to get diagnosed. But since his positive diagnosis, he has not really addressed the disorder, and he doesn't understand or underestimates its impact on our marriage. What makes me so sad is my own aggressive behavior toward him, that seems so foreign to me in most of my other relationships with people. And it seems so hard to stop behaving aggressively because otherwise it feels like I have nothing to combat the frustration I feel. Reading this blog has given me new insights, and as well as some tips I can use to develop more self-control and to use other, more effective approaches. The biggest need I have right now is learning how to forgive myself for my past (and still present) behavior in the face of a partner who has not yet taken responsibility for his own disorder.
Forgiving Self
The way that I was able to forgive my past aggressive behavior was to allow that the response was a reasonable response, just the wrong one. I didn't blame myself for my aggression, but made a very conscious decision. It was clear that the aggression was adding to the problems in our relationship, not helping either one of us. Did I wish to continue to add to our problems? Did I wish to continue to behave in a way that made me feel awful about myself now that I was aware that I was doing it? I decided not. So I could forgive myself for the past behavior. I had been doing the best I could up until that point...but now I had some different perspective that inspired me to try to do better.
It is easy to imagine forgiving your spouse for their past behavior provided they do better today and tomorrow. Should it not be just as easy to forgive yourself for your past provided you do better today and tomorrow?
You will need a different outlet for that frustration, though, in order to be successful. New conversational patterns, new ways to clear the path so that your husband can see how hard his ADHD symptoms are on you, new ways to take care of yourself.
Reasonable but wrong response
Thank you for your kind response. I've been thinking about it for a few days, and it has been helpful. I have a lot of self-awareness, and I know I'm not prone to violent or aggressive tendencies on a regular basis. Given the constant terrible stress of ADHD symptoms, those tendencies in me--that I believe lie dormant in all people actually--rose to the surface and became my dominant response in my household. I agree that my response seemed reasonable considering the circumstances, but it did not get me anywhere toward improving my marriage. Now using skills I'm gleaning from this web site, I am trying to carve out a new path for myself. To me one of the most important things I can do is something I read on your site about "boundary setting," which I can't seem to find again. It is to take responsibility for living my own "true" self, and to let my husband live his true self. This is very hard to do, but I am going to try. This week has been a much better week for me in a long time. I was actually singing in the mornings, something I haven't done in a long time. However, my marriage seems on hold right now. I'm realizing that it takes patience and time for healing and change to take place. Thanks again for being there.
i understand the analogy, but how do i (or my marriage) survive?
i guess the venting worked (see below), at least for now. once i got all that out, i was less angry. we had a calm, civil, if not exactly affectionate, talk about real stuff. it rarely holds, but at least i can take some hope from it, and refer back to today's conversation if patterns repeat.
___________________________________
i guess i'm just venting, feeling lost, since i have many reasons to have hope. my husband just started his diagnosis/testing process with what appears to be a great clinic. it is apparent to everyone that the probably diagnosis is adult ADD, possibly with some comorbid conditions. he's open to this treatment, and was open with the psychologist. we are in what seems a terminal waiting period for insurance authorizations to happen, appointments to be made, etc. he started a new job this week (yay!) and seems to like it. i hope he keeps it. i'm trying to be so patient and understand that this is a difficult time for him, that he is facing a lot of uncertainty and psychological shifts in the way he thinks and approaches his life. he won't read a single thing on this site, so i guess my biggest problem is how to deal on my own with being the "enemy" right now. a friend has described it as "good practice for when my daughter becomes a teenager." he is so impulsive, i have no choice but to keep an eye on his decision-making, which is totally not my style. as soon as i turn my back for a second, he makes an irrational commitments, starts an unreasonable project or spends money we don't have. he resents seemingly everything about me, especially my best friend, and is making all kinds of petty, snarky comments and accusations. they hurt, but i try to let them all bounce off.
i've been angry, yelled a lot and since realizing the possible issue, tried to calm the rhetoric at home. i am temporarily handling all of the important responsibilities until we make some progress and dig out of this financial and organizational hole. i am extremely stressed, with an eight-month old at home and a busy job as the primary (an until recently, the only) breadwinner. i barely sleep and it's filled with nightmares. i can hardly eat, my stomach feels so small. i know he's hurting trying to face a lot of mistakes. he's had some BIG whammies this year - no job, DUI/lost license, driving drunk with no license (thank God he didn't get caught or hurt anyone), failed business, huge piling debt. at heart he's a wonderful, senstive, creative man. i make sure to tell him regularly what i love about him, just like i always have but more, how great a father he is and point out the progress we've made, even in the last week. i admit my responsibility for my actions and reactions, and apologize for expressing my anger inappropriately. in other words, i'm doing my absolute best to be as emotionally mature as i've ever been. i'm so filled with self doubt. how do i know when i'm doing the right thing? how do i persevere in the face of his arguments and blame? how do i fuel my own emotional well-being when he's not giving me anything to go on but what i do wrong? i'm so tired of being the only one to be accountable and apologize for bad behavior. or the only one thanking him for nice things he does, or his understanding when it's around. when we do connect, and he gets real with me, i get hopeful...then he takes it all back a day or week later.
i try to pick my battles carefully. i feel beat up and empty. the house is full of blues and tension. our daughter is the one source of light, plus the occasional bonding moment between us. we started out loving each other so much, that's why this is so discouraging and so hopeful at the same time...and a whirlwind, scary rollercoaster ride. half the time i believe i'm making his life miserable. other times i'm indignant as hell wondering what he'd do without me or how he'd feel if he followed through on his threats to separate, or to crawl out of this together and then leave me anyway. i think he's all bark with little bite, but i don't really know anything at this point. i feel like i'm expected to have the patience of a kindergarten teacher, while carrying the world like atlas, and fending off the animal that's nipping at my feeding hands. i still believe in him, i still believe there's a chance we could come out of this in love...that this is one of those "worse" times mentioned in our vows. i still think i could admire him as the man in my life, with so many gifts that his ADD brings to the table.
i've been in crisis mode for a while, as soon as i realized i was dealing with an illness, and not willful action. i don't have the time or energy to feel much of anything, i have too much to do. our 4th anniversary is next week on thanksgiving. i want him to feel thankful for his family, like i am. and i want it last more than a day. i guess that's probably too much to expect right now. i want to be a better partner, how do i stay strong or know how to handle this? how do i read these posts about how hard it is and will likely always be and maintain my natural optimism?
like reading my diary
I just needed to know how things are going with you. My husband found this site and I have been drawn in to reading the blogs. Yours struck a cord since it is so similar to my daily life. The situations you mentioned, the fear, stress, emotions, all of it. If you have truly found some skills that have helped you both cope I do hope you will share
Thanks
OK Then....
Wow.
Just...wow.
I have adult ADHD. I am 28 years old. And I am now scared of getting into anything even remotely "normal."
I am aware I have the condition. I have been getting help. Not medicine, of course, since I have tried that option...and gone into a living coma. I mean that I have changed my diet, and learnt cues. I even write things down and try to remember them.
I know full well that if anything goes wrong, chances are, it's me. No one will EVER hear me say that anyone else is to blame.
As a woman with ADHD, I have had to go through a lot of stress. I also have put myself through a lot of unnecessary stress. I can admit this. I am also trying my utmost, and sometimes I still fall...
Wow...I can see where you're coming from.
I'm not so sure I can cause others pain like that, so I try to stay single as much as possible. I'm in a relationship now, but...
I don't think it is necessary to stay single!
In my opinion how you are as a marriage mate depends on who you are as a person and how well you manage your ADD symptoms. We all have *stuff* that causes stress for other people to deal with....for some it is a physical diagnosis, for some it is a mental diagnosis, for some it is an abusive childhood, for some it is poor social skills or poor personality traits, etc Whatever challenges we bring to the table, I think we have a responsibility for doing our best to control.
I have a tendency to be perfectionistic while my husband is waaayy into *good enough*. Does that cause challenges, fights, frustration?? YEP YEP and YEP But it is good for me to learn from him and for him to learn from me. We are a good team who sometimes struggle to understand eachother. Every good marriage I know has the same elements....and most of them do not have an ADD diagnosis. Some of the frustration is just learning to live with and communicate with a person who thinks differently from you....perhaps ADD adds a bit of a double whammy to the equation, but there is going to be some friction regardless.
If you can't imagine causing someone that kind of pain then I think it is likely you won't. My husband can't imagine causing pain the likes of which we read about here, and I can guarantee he is incapable of doing it. Some people are lousy people with or without ADD. ADD when it is treated does not preclude having a happy marriage. That said he does at times cause me pain at times he is not implementing coping skills for his ADD, and sometimes I cause him pain with my attitude toward his falling down in implementation--neither of us are TRYING to cause pain and when both of us are actively sorry for hurting eachother and work to do better next time, we get over it, forgive, and are very happy together.
Please don't think you have to go through life alone to *protect* other people from the consequences of dealing with your ADD. I have been married 8 years to an ADD man who was only diagnosed less than 3 years ago, and in our case I can say the positives FAR outweigh the negatives. That said the positives are FAR easier to see and deal with when he is going to his doctor appts (not forgetting them and having to reschedule...only to forget that one too--been there done that and it is SOO frustrating), taking his meds, meeting with his coach either in person or on the phone, and when he is implementing their suggestions in managing his symptoms. It makes us both feel more positive about what he is currently accomplishing and how likely it is that he'll continue accomplishing in the future.
Don't try to stay single, just because of ADD
Just because you have ADHD, doesn't mean you are dangerous to a relationship. Self awareness of ADHD going into a relationship is MORE than half the solution. Great, you've been diagnosed with ADHD, now just harness ADHD and use it's traits for good things, and keep any bad in check and minimized. Again, the diagnoses of ADHD before marriage is huge and helpful! I'm happy and very optimistic for you!
Thanks! That helps a
Thanks! That helps a lot...it's not easy, but it IS possible! I'm not giving up yet...still got a lot to live for!
Neurofeedback or biofeedback as a possible therapy.
I also have and husband with ADD, reading this posts made me feel like I had written them. Just recently one of the last psychologist we visited gave as a book called "A symphony in the Brain" where explain the beginning and the most recent uses of this therapy . Did any of you had tried this (neuro or biofeedback)? For how long and with what results? Thanks
Neuro-what? Can't get that in
Neuro-what?
Can't get that in my country! If I could, maybe it would help. Right now, I'm willing to try it...if they had it.
NEUROFEEDBACK or BIOFEEDBACK
Unfortunately my husband don't want to try this. So the only think I can tell is to read a book: A Symphony in the Brain by Jim Robbins. It explain what is exactly what it is and the results in different cases. Yes, you can find a psychologist or neurologist in the United States who work with this therapy. I will not trust anybody without a formal medical degree. I live in St. Louis Missouri and I found only to psychologist to work with it. I advise you to search in the internet about it. Like everything else you will find positive and negative opinions. I know a friend of mine in Dallas who just started to improve and autism factor they found in the EEG (Brain map test). Their 15 years old daughter also started to treat depression and they are happy with the results. I have a neurologist who use it in their practice to treat migraines.
Good luck and let us know any info you find (I think I have read all of them).
why not try
I am 46 years old and was just diagnosed,add had no idea before.when my wife asked for a divorce I asked-begged her to go to a counsler with me.After the counsler said to get tested i went immidiatly.I truly thought that is just how i was even with som family history of add.I started meds and therapy immediatly.I am reading books internet,add coatching,and studying the effects of what i have been doing to my wife just as much.I dont expect her to forget what i have done.I take full responsability for my actions.But i am truly remorsfull and would seek any treatment nessesary to get healthy and be the husband she deservs.I do addmit she has tried to help by telling me to go and enjoy my self and take on a lot of home responsability.I have worked hard and been a good finatial supporter and good father to our 6 and 9 year old.And will be even better as I continue with any tretment needed .I realize after years of dissappoint ment s reluctance to try.but with two small children who are amazingly happy and good in school.I would like at a try and go to therapy together or to use any resorce availibl to try and keep our family together.I understand i have drained here and say she needs to be her self first and would not expect her to do any thing els first.I just would like to slow down on the divorce.