Use of boundaries in ADHD relationships is still a mystery to me.
How are boundaries helpful in a marriage when the intrusive behavior they're meant to protect from, is passivity?
I could state I don't accept doing more than my share of housework. If my partner doesn't do his part, I have to choose between living in filth or do it anyway. It's the same with everything else: either wait a lifetime, or push ahead and do something to improve life, and resent the surge in workload that choice produces. Because ambition
means more work, but you were already prepared to step in whenever your spouse failed to do their agreed part, and so your workload was ridiculous to begin with.
Of course, if there are no children involved, it's possible for a spouse to choose to spend more nights out or seek other company. But when you are tied firmly to the home by children's needs? Is it really possible to make boundaries that make you not notice the stinking garbage under the sink?
I think I haven't understood this. Still I know there are people who make boundaries and thrive by them.
Wish I could help
Submitted by shevrae on
I really wish I knew what to say but the only thing I can offer is validation that it's a tough situation. Boundaries really do seem to be designed to discourage active behavior (and I am grateful for that!) but not inaction. Every possibility I have thought of to manage this in my own home with my ADHD partner ends up feeling like parenting, which neither of us wants. Maybe that's because I'm also the parent of several children with ADHD and parenting responses are the first thing that come to my brain.
My husband needs urgency and deadlines to accomplish things and I have said I am not going to be responsible for providing either because I find it stressful and exhausting. So he came up with a system of loud, obnoxious alarms to jolt him into action before he has time to even consider whether the thing HAS to be done right now. I find them really jarring but he has a much better track record at this point of taking out the trash, walking the dog, etc. so I don't complain. But he only started doing that after a pretty severe breakdown of our relationship that had me ready to move out. Before that, I could never get him to take it seriously when I explained the frustration and burden I felt. But I still don't have a plan for when the alarm system fails except to do it myself. Sigh.
Alarms
Submitted by Swedish coast on
It does seem alarms can take some weight off the non-ADHD partner. I hope they give you some relief.
You put it so well. Indeed I think boundaries may work best for active intrusion.
so true
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
Man, your post really hit the mark! I struggle with this a lot. I am reading 'Boundary Boss' again and trying to figure out how to stay true to myself, while still holding a boundary that sometimes really contradicts what I think is my inner values. I'd be interested to hear from Melissa on this one for a podcast or blog article!
It works on paper, not so much in real life
Submitted by adhd32 on
Some boundaries are easy to enforce if you or the kids are not affected by them such as spouse doing his own laundry, stocking his own hygiene products, purchasing his own snacks and goodies. Other agreed to boundaries are not. Routine chores are left undone and eventually get done by you because you need the crusty pans waiting days to be washed in order to cook dinner. Yes he agreed, yes you didn't remind or push and yet...what do you do? The kids need to eat and you can't wait until H arrives home from work to ask him what his suggestion would be to get dinner going. Mentioning it will likely cause a blow up with "I never do anything right", blah blah blah. What do you do when it is our family's turn to drive the carpool and the kids are left stranded because ADDer forgot about pickup and has the radio turned up so loud he can't hear his phone? Drop what you are doing and run out or let the kids (not all your own) wait and hope their parents don't ostracize your kid next time since their kid had to wait a half hour outside in bad weather. You call and smooth things over with the parents and hope your kid isn't collateral damage due to their ADHD parent's behavior.
It's these types of scenarios that make enforcing boundries with an ADHD partner close to impossible with a young family and the non spouse knows the kids will pay the price for scenarios such as above. The kids also don't want to depend on their unreliable parent which sets the chain reaction of taking on everything so the kids don't have to suffer unnecessarily.
Good point
Submitted by Swedish coast on
You're right. The non-ADD parent compensating for ADD slack is about protecting the children.
It will not stop
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
And you always have to plan that the ADHDer will forget (again) so you can't be so far away that you can't 'fire-jump' into the mess to attempt salvage (again). Stress. Unending. Amen.
Agree with others here on boundaries
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Boundaries sound good in theory, but there are few that can be enforced without consequences for the rest of the family. The few I managed to successfully employ:
1. If you're not ready to leave on time, there is a 10 minute grace period and then I go myself (with our child) and you can come separately
2. I will remind you that you promised to do XYZ twice by X date. If it's still not done, I'll hire someone (no matter how mad you get)
3. You can start helping with upkeep of the house or I'm hiring a cleaning service (No surprise I hired a cleaning service)
That was pretty much it. Even his laundry, which I stopped doing in the final 5 years, affected me because he would leave it smelling and rotting in the washer. I still didn't do it, but had to pull the moldy heap out onto the floor to do my own washing. Any other boundaries meant food spoiled, bills went unpaid, I walked around in filth or our child generally suffered.
What I also found with boundaries is that you need SO MANY in these relationships that you don't have an actual "relationship" left. How fulfilling can it be to surround yourself with walls on all sides to protect yourself from your partner's behaviour?
My last gripe with boundaries, but a big one... I also feel that experts suggesting non-ADHD partners erect all these boundaries places the responsibility for the relationship issues on the party who ISN'T the one causing the problems. The responsibility for doing what they said they'd do, picking up after themselves, etc, etc., should be on the ADHD partner.
Boundaries....
Submitted by c ur self on
My thoughts on boundaries, and people....Boundaries are the last thing most of us really want....Who want's a boundary? Not me!...A boundary is something (last straw) that is used to protect ourselves (and each other some times) from abusive behaviors etc...Boundaries in this arena are people who are hoping and praying change will come...Boundaries are the last straw before separation or divorce...And the only one's that work are the one's you can control...And those are only the one's we place on ourselves....(I want share $ w/ her...I want travel w/ her...I want argue w/ her....I want pick up behind her....I want enable her in anyway....etc..)
Putting this bluntly...ADHD isn't spoiled selfish people who don't give a shit about their spouses and their wedding vows....ADHD isn't people w/ sadistic personalities....ADHD isn't people who are blind to the needs of others....ADHD people can read, write, think, feel and manage behaviors....ADHD is distractibility, it is busy mindedness, it does create timeliness issues for the person, spouse, children, and others who might continue to place expectations on them....ADHD doesn't make a person unaware of their words, it doesn't create an uncontrollable temperament....We shouldn't blame ADHD for uncaring, or unsafe people who happen to have ADHD at some level....
Being a non adhd minded person doesn't mean we are kind, it doesn't mean we are not lazy and selfish...Being an individual w/ a non adhd mind doesn't mean we will be a wise parent or a loving spouse....It doesn't mean we will see ourselves and take ownership of our own thoughts feelings and behaviors....
It's easy to create some accountability w/ boundaries w/ good hearted people, who aren't steeped in blame and denial....Boundaries have their place...But they will never change evil to good, they will never repair a selfish uncaring spirit, and they will never turn a hard heart into a tender one...Adhd or non...
c
Very well said!
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
Thank you for the voice of reason C, although I see boundaries more as a way of knowing where one person ends and the other begins, in a sense. I don't see boundaries as a final straw but a healthy way to be self-determining, authentic, and healthy in relationship.
Something that I have noticed in this forum is unchecked, toxic codependency in nons. There seems to be very little adult responsibility for their own lives! That's going to go over like a lead balloon to people who have been overfunctioning as a part of their codependency. Does an adhd partner make a good co-parent or cohabitation partner? Nope. Does that make life hard? Yep. Is the only choice to suffer the piles of filth or overfunction? NOPE!
I married a man when I was 26 who had a historical drug issue but was clean and sober, very attentive, great provider, good husband. I had no idea what was in store. When our children were 2 and 4, he relapsed. Suddenly my lofe was upside down. Was my option to either be codependent to his dysfunction, martyr myself, be the victim, destroy my health and well being and endanger the children by staying with his addiction? If I would have chosen that (I SAY CHOSEN) then I would be responsible for neglecting my own well being. Instead, I chose the hardship of leaving and being a single parent and raising them on my own with no help, no financial support, a struggle their entire childhood lives. And that was the right choice, because my boundary is I don't live and coparent with a dysfunctional, maddening person who cannot participate in ways that are supportive, no matter the cause.
So a therapist or your own belief system urges you to stay? Ok, take responsibility for your own choice to ultimately do so, and recognize that you may be a martyr, a fixer, a miserably codependent person who is willing to place all blame for your situation on the other person.
I've even seen a poster here unable to empathize with an adhd man being physically abused, because she projects her own anger into the situation and literally was minimizing abuse and blaming the adhd partner's issues for it! Really? Non adhd partners are justified in criminal behavior (assault) because they are actual victims? No, unless there's a gun to your head you're not a victim. You're a volunteer. When you realize something is destroying you and your life, its up to you to take action. None of us have it easy. I would have NO place saying this if I didn't do it myself... I had no money, no place to live, issues finding daycare, all the problems that single parents with few resources face. Life is hard. It can be devastating. But it's a matter of are you taking responsibility for it or just being a victim?
There's the argument of "I didn't know! I eleived we could get through it!" Or any other argument. We'll, you were wrong. We all have to face our miscalculations, illusions, false beliefs, wishful thinking.
No, the only option isn't to live in filth or do it yourself. You just don't like the other options. Nobody would, but that's life. Codependency kills, it sucks the life out of you more than any other person's issues will. Yes, partnering with an adhd or mentally ill or addicted spouse can ruin your life. At the end of that life, it won't matter who you blame. It will matter what you did to live your OWN life. Are you living your own life, or someone else's? How long do you hold yourself hostage going over their faults until you realize.... I have my own issues to sort through because I harmed myself for decades by succumbing to victimhood?
Life starts the day you take it into your own hands. It's hard. Nobody said it wouldn't be. It's heartbreaking. It's exhausting. But it's yours and you're responsible for it, no matter what someone else is doing.
I'm prepared for the defensiveness. I'm prepared for justifications. Maybe deflecting, maybe even gaslighting. These are all behaviors adhd spouses are famous for. But so are codependents. The Other is the bad guy, I am a victim, don't try to point out my failures because that's too painful. Well, same for the adhd partner. It's painful to realize their own behaviors have caused years of misery. But they are only half of the equation. If you are toxic to your spouse and yourself in your dynamic that's on YOU. And no, violence isn't minimized in the eyes of a reasonable peron just because your spouse drives you crazy. That is the justification abusers use.
I'm not singling out any one Non...
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
Except the one who write about how the non-adhd spouse's violence was somehow understandable...
Swedish, my response was on your lost but was general to the tone of the forum. I was with a ND adhd man and left, and I understand the negativity. But again... its one side of the equation, adhd. The other side is very unhealthy, and it takes two to be in a dynamic. This forum descends into the realm of victimhood, focus on the failures of the adhd spouse, and the abuse that goes hand in h2nd with some of these dynamics. If anyone here can find a wholesome reason to subject themselves to the control of their spouse who is incapable of healthy behavior, I call BS.
Although... passivity IS a problem...
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
There is a continuous stream of what I see as projection that occurs here.
So we have an adhd partner that "knows" the action "should" be taken. But fails to act. Can't follow through. Can't take responsibility. Can't seem to behave in ways that are congruent with a harmonious lifestyle.
Where is the non in this? It's VERY difficult, I'd say traumatic, to face the loss of whatever we cling to. And because we are clinging, we can't see that we are the ones with the problem. We want what we want, and someone won't give it to us. The locus of control is external. We need to get them to change, or we need to twist ourselves into a pretzel and break our own arms off, cling with our teeth and toes because we want what we want.
We become passive in our choices. Not passive in the amount of overfunctioning and reactivity. Passive in our choices and our actions to face the reality of our lives.
How do we create boundaries around our own passive dysfunction? We become assertive. Assertive demanding change in another? No. Assertive in determining the standards we have for living and making sacrifices not of our own wellbeing to uphold those standards... we have to let go of the person we cling to. Yes, really. The reality of another person can take the form of adhd, mental illness, addiction, poor character, even terminal cancer. What we expect of someone is not what we are entitled to. If someone has a terminal cancer diagnosis and can't help us, we will lose them, we will parent alone, it will be traumatic and we will be grief stricken. We will have to let go, we can't control their reality to get what we want. We will overfunction, it will be necessary, and we will ultimately be alone. We are not exempt from loss. We have to carry on taking care of our lives regardless of the reality of another person.
If someone has adhd and cannot help us, we are faced with a choice. How do we carry on our lives and uphold our standards, despite the reality of the other person that presents an insurmountable obstacle? Destroy ourselves over that? If its harder to leave then to stay, you then have something to be thankful for, beat to try to focus on that. If its truly harder to leave, then there is benefit that may not make you happy, but life doesn't even promise that.
The locus of control over your own well being has to move inward, whether that is by making external changes (leaving, boundaries, etc) or internal changes (acceptance, personal responsibility for one's own emotional regulation, living with empowerment that comes from calculating the cost and making a decision to pay it or not... personal choice.)
Anyway, that's as I see it. There will be disagreement perhaps. But in the end we have to face consequences of our own beliefs and actions and when we strike a terrible deal we do pay the price even if we meant well. I haven't seen otherwise in all my life. There is no cavalry that swoops in to save us from our own bad judgement or lack of understanding. We learn the hard way, if we need to.
Your comments cut me deep but needed to read it again and again
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
Man oh man, I've read and re-read your comments above so many times because they really affected me. In both good and bad ways....so much so u had to talk about them in therapy and I've realised now its because your words are so true for me (only speaking from my experience on this obvs) and they really affected me. So much. Its been a tough journey to find out that I'm just as much as the problem as my husbands unmanaged ADHD symptoms and I've become co-dependant in a weird toxic and unattractive way that i continuously point the finger at so many other things for blame, when really, I do have the power to change all this - I just don't like the options and I'd prefer to have the outcomes and actions that suitable to me and not as scary as others. But really, what I came here to say is thank you for writing these courageous words and as hard as they were to read, they were probably equally hard to experience in real time and it's noted that someone like u has gone through an incredible rough time and come out on the other end and is vulnerable enough to share it with us. So thank you. It couldnt have been or was easy, I'm sure. But while I'm still digesting what you wrote and fi nding out what about it touched my nerves so much - it will help me cut through my own shit quicker bc you shared something so raw.
This shit is hard. But im taking the journey and trying to do what is best for me and hopefully my son and that'd the best I can do. I cant control anything else.
Well…
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I sense you're upset but don't really follow?
I too have divorced my ADD spouse. I am trying to understand what happened to my once so loving marriage.
It might be easy after the breakup to see it was the only good choice - I know I do. Still I have great compassion for bewildered lovers trying to change their relationship for the better.
I think the most confusing thing is to see your spouse almost killing himself to be a good partner for you, and still failing again and again. That may be living in codependency, but it is also love.
How were we to know how it would end?
Not upset....
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm wasn't upset... I was just pointing out that we all make choices...We all are accountable for those choices...And it's wise to understand, no matter what my spouse does, or doesn't do, related to her responsibilities (vows) in our marriage....It will never take away one jot or tittle of what my vows, hold me accountable for....I will never answer for her, nor will she ever answer for me....So I have to deal w/ me, make appropriate decisions that I can live with, and die with....So at the end of the day, ADD can't be a part of me choices...
Question was for Cantgoback
Submitted by Swedish coast on
No sorry, it wasn't you C that I addressed...
I saw that after rereading the thread....
Submitted by c ur self on
But I responded off of my email....Have a blessed day!
This too.
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
This comment too also hit hard core bc on totally agree. This is so not what we signed up for and what we thought would happen and some days I'm left going "what the hell has even happened!?!?!?"
This too.
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
This comment too also hit hard core bc on totally agree. This is so not what we signed up for and what we thought would happen and some days I'm left going "what the hell has even happened!?!?!?"
No. I'm not upset
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
But I strongly disagree with characterizing contempt and resentment as love. You yourself have written about deep contempt and hatred between you and your spouse. Love turns to codependency pretty soon, wejust miss it and create a narrative that has us as the good one. But I think we are in denial to frame codependent, unhealthy coping as love.
There's even a book called Women Who Love Too Much, about these kinds of dynamics.
Love gone bad
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Yes you're right, in my case love has certainly gone bad. It does at some point, obviously, when a loving relationship turns to misery and ends in divorce.
Still, both my ADD partner and I have lived through this with the best intentions. I'm sure it's that way for many others on the forum too. My point is - who are you attacking? People who don't defend their personal boundaries enough and then blame the external circumstances?
Im not looking to argue with you, just interested.
How it turns out vs how it's going...
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
We have the responsibility to live in our current reality and not chop our own heads off enabling, helping, and hoping for an outcome. 20 years of suffering is no surprise when it ends. I'm not berating you. But I do think that there is something missing here. We can disagree, and it doesn't impact your reality or mine. There are no good guys and bad guys, only failed dynamicss which require two participants, both unhealthy. I'm not going on only my recent breakup after 3.5 years with adhd partner. This is what I've learned in a series of relationships that failed due to not just glaring issues in the partner, but in my own un healthy dynamic that had me long suffering and unable to direct my own life and well being, independent of another person on whom I had placed my needs and expectations. I mentioned the addict. I have come to a different understanding though letting go and facing my own failings, dependence, codependency. I think the forum reeks of blame on the other. Yes, the adhd partner is very difficult to live with. So.... there are choices but if commitment and love end in divorce and hate, somewhere along the line something was missed. Not all forums are going to focus on that though, this one does in the form of lamentation but I don't see a real recognition of unhealthy dynamics on the part of the Non in a capacity which isn't blaming and reactive. At least not much.
Ok then I get it
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I appreciate your honesty and also your ability to self-reflect. I agree with you that as a non, it's tempting to blame ADHD. On the other hand, isn't that sort of morally okay as long as it's a set of symptoms that are blamed, instead of people? I do keep those different entities apart. To me it makes sense, and I also owe it to (several) ADHD people whom I like and love. I know for certain that my ex-husband is a good person. I also know he cannot live his intentions due to symptoms. Both things are true simultaneously. It doesn't make him a rotten person, just completely unfit for me.
The thing I sometimes think about is how ugly the ADHD-non dynamic makes us all who enter into it. It doesn't flatter us, which is unbearable. Isn't that an interesting aspect too? I seek to steer away from being ugly now, but I still feel disgusted with myself now and then.
Is the forum maybe a place to exchange validation and restore a sense of self that isn't repulsive? Because nons like me know that we have inflicted pain and been destructive in our marriages too. It wasn't intentional, but nonetheless.
I find your post interesting. We all have so much to explore and enjoy going forward. I hope you are happy with your current situation.
All the best to you.
Of course, people can utilize
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
Of course, people can utilize the forum how they see fit.
I am continuing to heal in my own situation, going deeper into awareness of my genuine needs and how to meet them in a healthy way. While in contact with him I continue to observe unmitigated symptoms, and pay attention to how those things trigger me, the narrative that forms, and how that narrative began earlier in my life, with neglectful parents. I've re-created abandonment by pairing with a partner who is emotionally unavailable, I'm looking at what remains to be healed in me.
Best to you as well!
We are not together, I should clarify
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
He says he would like to fix the relationship, ut he naturally has no awareness of what that would require and he has declined to ever explore the possibility of having adhd. So, I am working with the triggers and letting go as a process that involves examining my participation in a dynamic that just can't meet my needs, emotionally or practically.