I just posted a reply in "can ADHD make nons too empathetic" but, tbh this is something I've been trying to clarify my thoughts on for a little while and been meaning to write a topic about - somehow it all came together in response to Swedish Coast's topic and figured it was probably worth a separate thread (feel free to delete/not approve that reply if needed - also I've no idea what to categorise this so apologies if the category doesn't fit!)

I've been thinking a lot lately on whether ADHD is really the only thing that causes issues in an ADHD marriage. Don't get me wrong, it absolutely is one of the things - but I struggle to get fully on board with the formula that "there's a third entity in your marriage, ADHD, and this is the source of your issues". It's a better way of looking at it than blaming the ADHD partner as a person but I feel like it misses the mark slightly, particularly with how understanding of ADHD has changed over the last few decades

Fundamentally what makes ADHD a "disorder" is not that we're broken and incapable, but rather that we deviate from the majority in terms of the way our brain works. And it['s this expectation that we're going to "do things the normal way" that does so much harm, to the ADHDer specifically but it's also the source of a lot of the frustration in the people around us. By the time an ADHDer settles into a relationship they generally are pretty broken, but it's unfair to just call that brokenness "ADHD" - it's the cumulative effect of living their life up to that point with ADHD, not living up to what people expect of them and being beaten down repeatedly, and all of the internal hurt from people being unable to deal with their symptoms.

In my opinion there's a fourth entity in these marriages which is "neurotypical expectations" - and to be clear here this isn't something that the non partner brings into the relationship. We all grow up in a neurotypical society and often the ADHDer will have neurotypical expectations too. There's this feeling that for some reason "we've not grown up yet", and this expectation that there's some landmark moment round the corner that will act as a significant moment, inspire us to step up and we'll be a fully functioning person from that point on (thanks, Hollywood in particular for making that message so abundant but I imagine it shows up even outside there) - maybe we think it'll happen when we get married, or have a child. But it doesn't, we just have even more responsibility, with the same brain and the same expectations, so we get even more overwhelmed

My point is I do wonder how different my life could have been, if I knew about ADHD early on. If I and the people around me had realistic expectations of what I could do/be and allowed/helped me build strategies that worked rather than letting/making me flounder trying and failing to do things the way everyone else did, and putting me down whenever I tried to do things in a way that worked better for me. And I wonder how different my marriage could have been if we'd both known I had ADHD, knew what I could expect of myself and where I'd need to build strategies rather than do things "as expected". Maybe we would have decided it wasn't going to work, I don't know - but at least we would have had a better idea what to expect.

I imagine relationships with ADHD are hard regardless, but IMO the "undiagnosed" part of "undiagnosed ADHD", particularly where it's also "not even remotely on our radar" does an awful lot of the heavy lifting in terms of the hurt caused, on both sides.

Doesn't seem like I've really answered your question at all here lol (for context I originally posted this in the thread "can ADHD make nons too empathetic") - I think the link is just that, these neurotypical expectations (and let me again be completely clear, not the non partner's expectations - I'm talking about cultural expectations that have been present your whole lives and that get brought into the relationship by both partners here) exacerbate a lot of the friction in the relationship, and raise the level of stress and dysfunction (in ADHD terms, the less we feel understood by those important to us the more we tend to compensate in maladaptive ways) to the point that the empathy you need to exercise to keep any kind of relationship going is absolutely through the roof

I'm not trying to imply that ADHD doesn't cause issues in relationships, I hope that's clear. Even with clear expectations and a life free of trauma we'd probably still be difficult for NT partners in particular, I just think that the idea that "ADHD is the third entity in the marriage and the source of all your problems" is a bit simplistic and puts too much blame on what is fundamentally just a different way in which our brains work, and doesn't address some of the reasons why ADHDers get so dysfunctional.

And don't get me wrong, it's not a non partner's job to resolve those dysfunctions, or that trauma - not at all. My point is more that I think where a relationship has ADHD present and NT expectations (e.g. that the ADHDer will "grow up" and become functionally NT), it tends to add to that trauma/dysfunction rather than reduce it. And in fairness no doubt it traumatises the non partner as well - I'm coming from the ADHD side here but I recognise that a lot of your experiences are valid and horrific, and also not a million miles away from my wife's (near identical in some cases)

Hope this reads as intended - I believe everyone posting here has tried their best at their respective relationships including those that ended, my point here isn't to say anyone could have "done better", if we were failed by anything it was a culture-wide expectation of homogenous neurotypes, and nons have been failed by that just as much as ADHDers, and the autistic community and just about anyone who was considered "sub standard" for having a brain that worked differently