verbal abuse from ADD spouse
My husband and I have been married for 5 years, it started out so well... He was my #1 fan and supporter, he was my very best friend and he went out of his way to make me feel safe, secure, and appreciated (I observed the same behavior in his dad with his mom.) That is why I fell in love with him and married him. I knew that he had ADD when I married him, he was diagnosed in 9th grade but until very recently I did not realize the enormous impact it has had on our marriage.
Let me preface this with telling you that 1. I am an educated woman who refuses to become a "victim." I call him out on his bad behavior and I stick up for myself not allowing what he says to make me question myself (as best I can) and I have read many books/articles ect. about ADD. I want to understand, to do my part. 2. I love my husband, he is a very good man. He has recently switched from his family doc to a psychiatrist (I initiated this change, found the psychiatrist) who specializes in ADD, he takes 100mg Vyvanse, he also just started seeing a behavioral therapist the psychiatrist recommended. I have not met with him yet but I plan to as soon as possible. He comes from a very loving and healthy home with very supportive parents. He is a full time professional firefighter/Paramedic and full time student graduating (B.A. in Public Administration) with a 3.7 GPA with plans to work on his Masters Degree. He is highly functioning, intelligent, and helps out alot around the house and with our 9 month old daughter, he is a wonderful father and completely adores her. However, He is a terrible procrastinator and needs to work harder at remembering things, completing tasks, keeping promises, and actively listening without interrupting. These are things I know we can and will work through.
My main concerns are his lack of control over his emotions, his lack of empathy, and his willingness to "cross the line", or "hit below the belt." I can not trust my husband and it is extremely hard to show him the respect he feels he deserves. We desprately need help, not just for the sake of our marriage but also to be a good example to our daughter and provide her with a safe, happy, loving and secure home. I want to trust and respect him, I really do, he does not make it easy and there is no time to waste.
He is emotionally very reactive, speaking without thinking, reckless with his words/actions and talking with him is alot like trying to reason with a teenager. He has lied to me about important things. When I ask if he is lying he denies it, so to avoid a fight I ignore my intuition and I choose to believe him. Then it will come out later that he did indeed lie but because it was in the past I shouldn't hold it against him now. He has a completely irrational and emotionally devastating temper. He does not "fight fair" nor does he seem to understand the consequences/harm his tactics have on me and our marriage. We frequently (avg. 3-4 times a month) have horrible fights that usually start over him being angry over something small, like crumbs left on the countertop. He gets so angry and expresses his fustration with such utter disregard for my feelings that we end up in this tornado of chaos with him frequently "hitting below the belt" by saying emotionally devastating things to me like what a horrible wife/mother i am and how it is because of me that he gets so angry, that I am the controlling one. He seems more interested in "winning" the fight than solving the problem, and he sees things as either his way or my way with no room for compromise. After the "tornado" has hit its climax, usually with me leaving in hysterical tears, and he has settled down, he seems sincerely sorry and he tells me he did not mean the things he said, that I am a wonderful wife and mother and he feels so lucky to have me, that he knows that most people wouldn't stick around to work this out with him and that he will get his anger under control and treat me better. Until the next fight... This is a pattern also extremely familiar to his parents and sister who used to have to lock herself in the bathroom to get away from him when they were younger. Although I have never spoken to any of his co-workers about it I know, because of what he has told me, that he abuses his co-workers as well.
He has driven extremely recklessly with me in the vehicle, thrown things, punched holes in the wall and slammed doors. I do not know how to lead up to this but I think it is important to mention, our sexlife is non-existant. There are several reasons, his ADD, a new baby, I am on 50mg of zoloft, all the hurt and resentment, but also the fact that he is very selfish in this department. I have to ask/remind him, when he has finished, for my climax. He has responded with a heavy sigh and/or puts so little effort into it that I can't stand it so I just don't want to do it anymore. How can you treat someone you claim to love so much this way? I feel very betrayed, tricked. This is not the man I fell in love with. We used to have a fabulous sexlife.
I want to make this marriage work, and I believe he does too. He is taking the right steps with the psychiatrist, meds, therapy, in this way I am truly blessed. But I am emotionally exhausted and have alot of deep wounds that need to heal, trust that needs to be rebuilt. My husband says he accepts that his anger has been the source of many of our problems, but also feels the need to remind me that he has issues with me, that from what i can understand stem from his need for me to respect him. This deflates my hope, because he still doesn't seem to see how he makes it impossible for me to respect/depend on him without him getting his anger/other issues under control first. I am not perfect, and I know that I own some of the blame for why we are where we are but I feel like I am bleeding out here and he is complaing about a scrape on the knee! I am deperate, I need him to be the man I married. I need him to really understand and own the hurt and damage he has caused, how else will it ever change? I need hope, something so that i can believe that things will get better, that I will have my best friend back, the man that was so supportive and appreciative, loving, generous.......
Technorati Tags: Anger, Frustration & ADHD
verbal abuse from ADD spouse
My ADD spouse had extreme anger issues, also. In fact, in our 27 years of marriage, I can never remember him not being angry about something and that something could be anything! We fought often but without resolve because of our lack of communication. It wasn't until a major blowup, when "I" totally lost it, which was not my style, I'm usually very calm, cool and collected and not a fan of confrontation, that our communication with each other changed. It broke the ice, that for many years I was afraid to, because of having to deal with his reaction. Well, as a result, I think it put him in a state of shock, that somebody was standing up to him. That hadn't happened in a long time. Our better communication allowed us to talk about his anger(same as your's: driving recklessly with me in the vehicle, throwing things, punching holes in walls, slamming doors) and me asking him the question, If these aren't signs of anger then what are they? I was able to let him know that because of this I had lost my respect for him many, many years ago. He did begin going to therapy and his anger issues were one of the first things they began working on. I think sometimes they abuse us even if the anger has nothing to do with us, just because we're there and they are in a comfort zone where nobody else can see. They must own up for their behavior. My husband's therapist had him watch a series of tapes on anger and even though I was not a part of that, it helped him tremendously. While we are still working through this ADD journey, dealing with the anger issues was a major hurdle that we have conquered and my respect for my husband is increasing on a daily basis. I have told him that and I hope that he feels good about it. Respect is very important in a relationship, both ways, and without it can lead to a path of destruction.
Verbal Abuse
You are doing many things right, and I commend your efforts as well as your approach. It sounds to me as if your absolute best bet for recovery is anger therapy for your husband, just as newfdog's wife writes about with her husband (see below). As you have stated, you should pursue fixing this immediately, before it hurts you further.
When he apologizes to you, what do you say? I'm hoping that it's something like "I appreciate that you care enough about me to try to apologize, but I must tell you that because this is a recurring event in our household, your ongoing actions are more important to me right now than your apology. You need to take responsibility for getting your anger under control. I so look forward to being able to treat you with the love and respect you deserve, but find that your anger is hurting me so much that I can't get past it. Please take care of your anger so that we can start to have a more normal life again."
As for the sex, I think it probably is a reflection of your underlying issues as a couple. Interactions can change there without your realizing it. Perhaps you are unconsciously doing what I was doing...I found that the dynamics of our sexual relationship shifted subtly when we were fighting...I would wait for my husband to "prove" to me that he cared about me through taking charge in sex, (rather than the more even back and forth we had had before) so I backed away a bit and as a result he focused more on himself then I blamed him for not being interested in satisfying me, and things got worse....
Anyway, you need an "objective" third party to help your husband understand your hurt...so please find a marriage counselor who understands ADD.
verbal abuse
Thanks so much, both of you for your advice and support. To answer your question Melissa, yes. When he apologizes I always say I do appreciate the apology but I need to see action. He says he understands, but the viscous circle keeps on spinnin'.
This week-end we had a bit of an intervention, his parents had long talks with us and are very supportive, they seem to really understand my hurt but my husband seems to be completely missing the point. If I were him, I would be remorseful, apologetic, and thankful that my spouse has been strong enough and loved me enough to stick around and work on this. I would be doing everything in my power to show them how sorry I am, and with every chance I had to show them evidence of how hard I am working to resolve this problem. My husband says the words " I am sorry" and "I take full responsibility for my anger" BUT then, in the same breath, he says that I shouldn't forget that it took two of us to get here and that he has resentments of his own about me!!! Am I crazy or is that completely unbelieveable?? This does not sound like he really understands what has happened, or that he is accepting resposibility at all? How am I supposed to have hope that this is going to change if this is what he thinks?
Question for all ADD/ADHDers about abuse/anger
I truly appreciate the frank and honest posts from all of you. I have learned a great deal from you and have tried to be more understanding toward my ADHD husband based on that. I would really like to hear from those of you ADDers who have those anger and abuse issues that many non-add spouses (including me) are writing about. Could you explain or describe what it is like for you either hearing from a hurt spouse how you have disrespected/hurt/abused them again or if you do recognize that anger and abuse in yourself as you are doing it...what is that like for you??? Are you on medication for that specific symptom? Does it work? What helps? Please help me understand this side of my husband. He is not as self aware as many of you are in your postings. Please help me help him. I really want to understand this!
Thank you and God bless!
Steph
Verbal Abuse Response
Hmmm... The answer I'm going to give you may not be the one that you want to hear, but here goes...
I would take his response as an opportunity to say "let's talk about this". Your husband IS missing the point, or at least part of it, but until he thinks you are hearing him then he is likely to keep on missing the point. My husband says that the absolute hardest thing about being a person with ADD and making a better marriage is figuring out that your actions really, truly are hurting your spouse...and how much. When he says this, what he means is both understanding that your actions hurt someone AND understanding that only he is responsible for them (not you). You can see this in other posts on the site...one recently, for example, with an ADD person who is hurt that his wife has left him after 15 years and now, finally, sees how badly he has hurt her. It takes a lot to have the person get this revelation.
That said, I observe that the non-ADD spouse is also often complicit in not fully seeing her own role in how the couple isn't getting along. Sometimes this is a matter of mis-matched perceptions. The non-ADD spouse may be trying to be helpful when suggesting ideas for getting around ADD issues (for example) while the ADD spouse sees it as stepping all over his authority and completely intrusive behavior. It's important that you listen to your spouse's cries of "you're contributing to our pain" just as readily as you would like him to listen to yours. Else you are asking him to listen at the same time that you are unwilling to do so...not a great example to set.
Your husband's response deserves respect in that he obviously has something he wants to bring to your attention. How he does so is important. Make sure he's constructive (not dumping on you) and thoughtful, and give his ideas full consideration. Then, reverse roles. Give him your perspective in a thoughtful way, and ask that he give you full consideration.
A therapist who understands ADD could be very helpful with this, as could (maybe) your in-laws (depending upon how involved they want to be) though be wary of relying on them too much, as they have their own baggage. Also, hold your husband to his words about taking full responsibility for his anger. He needs to not only own it - he needs to actively do something about it before it further hurts your relationship. Point out that if he truly does take responsibility for it then he shouldn't be blaming others for its origin. (By listening to his thoughts, by the way, you strengthen your hand in this argument, because when he comes back at you and says "you make me angry" you can say "yes, I heard you say that and I understand your points better now...and I'm now working hard to make sure I don't do that anymore...time for you to do your share, too.")
Hope this helps.
Thank you.... I needed that
Thank you.... I needed that validation. " Yes, he is missing the point" "He does not understand how much he has hurt me/us" and "understanding that only he is responsible for his actions that have been so damaging."
If he really understood these things it would be so much easier to have confidence that this time things really are different, things might really change. I guess only time will tell. Also, yes, I have read so much about A.D.D lately that I am sure that I tell him things about his A.D.D in an effort to help him recognize things. I can see how that could come off in a bad way. I have to be patient and leave him be. I am calling to set up an appointment for me today with a therapist that specializes in A.D.D and marriage.
Thanks so much Melissa. You have helped me tremendously in a very desperate time.
How to withstand from verbal abuse?
Hi Melissa, I wish I have gone through this site earlier so that I had applied your great pieces of advice. I really did not know where to start but I want to share my story with you all. I had a girlfriend for a year and half and I did not know that she has this ADD. I only knew it after we broke up. She is a Med Student and I thought at first, she was just weird or just different from other girls I have met.
Our first date was the best and the happiest since we had been together. After that first date, it was like her mood swings every 10 seconds. We fought over everything, even the smallest thing I could ever imagine we would argue about. Like radio stations, feminine wash, movie star, past relationships (bit common), and a lot more. I did not get it at first that she was sick. I thought the day to day war that we had was just part of her stressful life as a Med Student.
I didn’t feel I was treated as a partner at all, I felt more of a shock absorber or most of the time her greatest rival. She had to make every conversation a competition of who knows more and who’s superior.
The first half year was full of goodbyes and reconciliations. Just imagine, every time she failed an exam she had to say goodbye and then the other day will be, her, asking for reconciliation.
She had thought that I am a mean person if I never took her back to prove that she can change and she was worth of my love and care. That I was just like her ex’s who never gave her a chance. She never had a relationship that lasted longer than what we had. She had days, weeks, and 3 months was the most before ours.
She blamed me for everything even if the situation is out of my control. For instance, the traffic red light that takes a while to green. She burst out and said words like it was my fault we were on that street that has a faulty traffic light. And after the day she failed an exam she had blamed me for being with her instead of studying even if she had been the one who insisted for me to come by.
She even told me that she used to have a lot of suitors and since I came, they all lost their interests with her. We both agreed to be together and I did not force her to be my girlfriend. I always reminded her of that but she said she regretted that day that we met.
That her family had not been in favor of me because I am not capable of taking good care of her. She even said that I only stick around because I was after her car. And my job (Technical Support Specialist -IT) was not a good profession because it won’t bring the same financial rewards compare to her profession.
One day I just told her that I’m tired of work, and what she said was, I can’t be tired because being in Med School is tiresome among all others. Woah! I have no right of being tired since when? She had been so self-centered. I had not been getting any sympathy at all but then I opted to stay hoping that one day everything will come to realization and get better.
There had been a time when all the things she said just passed by my ears and I had been able to ignore it. I never fought back. But sometimes she had been really getting into my nerves and I can’t help it but cry in front of her. And one time I did, she even asked me to apologize to her even if I was the one who had been crying and had been belittled. It was indeed a vicious cycle.
There was a time as well when I really wanted to leave her and she begged on my knees asking me to give her time to change. So she knew that she had a problem but I don’t know if she knew how much I had been hurt. She never said sorry. There was even a situation wherein we were fighting inside her car, she suddenly scratched her nails on my hands and it bleed a bit. I asked her to stop but she kept going on the other hand so I hold her on her wrists without hurting her. I let go of her and she grabbed her phone, called her mom and told her that I was hurting her physically. I was about to disappear on the scene because I really can’t take it anymore but she was screaming when I opened the door and stepped out of her car. I drove her home and she asked me to sleep over in a low tone of voice. I thought she would apologize for it but she didn’t.
I had been so patient with her for all those times we’d been together because of the hope that she will change. I always let her know how I felt about us, that even she has been worst I still love her and wanted to help her do the change she has always wanted.
She also told me that I ruined all the special occasions in her life, like her birthday and valentines. She always anticipated that I would be like her ex’s who did not show up or even bother to be with her during those important occasions in her life. But I finally found out why they did not show up. It’s because the day before the occasion she will have said something like she won’t be available because she needs to prepare for an exam or she’ll be needing to exhaust her time reading tons of handouts. And on that exact special day, before the day end, you will be blamed of not showing on her doorstep and for not bringing any present for her. Definitely I’ll be thrown with foul words like you’re not better than her ex; there are just people around who’s willing to give her a present and be with her; that I am not worthy of being in relationship with her; that I was giving less love and care. She had been capable of setting people in a situation where she can mock, blame, belittle, and devalue them.
She had been capable of self destructing.
She even accused me of stealing her car keys when she accidentally misplaced it somewhere.
She can’t stand waiting for our food to be served.
She wanted me to tell her how my day was but she would cut me off and let me know that she was annoyed to hear my voice and I had to stop or let me continue and shows no interest at all listening.
She made it hard for me to understand her.
One day without any single clue, she left me. We lost our communication for 2 months.
A month ago, I received a message from her that she took a vacation out of town with her family and started to ponder over things that happened to us. She wanted us back but I refuse because I feel the need to heal my self so I can always give my respect for her and never learn to hate her. She told me she has been diagnosed with ADHD and she wanted me to help her get back to a normal life. I know my patience, love, and care is not enough. I love her so much and I want to help her. I know she is a sweet, loving, and caring person needing some help.
(English is not my first language, hope I was able to express myself well)
For Blue25
I've read a lot of posts about and by people with ADHD. I'm not a doctor. But I don't think your ex girlfriend has ADHD. Or, if she does, it's with something else.
I want to strongly encourage you to do 2 things. First, DO NOT get back together with this woman. SHe is very bad for your self-esteem. She has not earned your love through her actions and the chances of your ever being happy with her are very, very slim. Second, please find a therapist for yourself. You need to explore why it is you were willing to stay with someone who was so (I'll use the word) abusive to you. This was not a healthy relationship and you need to understand yourself better so that you won't fall into a different relationship with someone else that is equally unhealthy. Getting some professional help should be a good start for you as you seek to find a good, healthy partner.
Thank you for sharing your story.
I'd agree with Melissa here,
I'd agree with Melissa here, ADD is not the cause here. This is not ADD. Listen, a lot of people are spoiled and therefore have an assuming, impatient nature. But they aren't bad - they just haven't evolved beyond the toddler stage at some point of their emotional development and so the world revolves around them. They aren't cruel by nature.
This:
"She had been capable of setting people in a situation where she can mock, blame, belittle, and devalue them. "
is something else altogether. In nature, certain insects and reptiles are coloured in such a way as to let those around them know that they are bad news! Just about everything you've said here in respects to your girlfriend are clear warning signs as to the true nature of this person and you can rest assured that you've only seen the tip of the iceberg
"I know she is a sweet, loving, and caring person needing some help"
No. This woman has managed to detect and exploit your self-esteem issues, the need to be needed - whatever it is - and feed you just enough of it to keep you on the hook.
You'd be very wise to get as far away from this character as quickly as possible.
=================================================================
Welcome to the desert of the Real
- Morpheus
For Melissa and Morpheus
Thank you so much for both of your response. I have decided to change my mobile number and cut all means of communication with her. Problem with me is, I easily forgive and it's hard for me to get mad. But because of your recommendations and reactions, I was widely awaken and realized that she had been abusing me so much and right, the word is "exploit".
I appreciated it much that both of you have written something that I actually printed out and kept reading so that I will always be reminded to stay away from her. Honestly, my relationship before her, had something to do with the abuse thing.
My 3-year relationship had been almost perfect for me; we only broke up once and that ended the relationship. It was a third party, and so my mindset with the next girlfriend was as long as she remain faithful I will not leave that person(Got abused for staying--argh!). I realized that the former is tolerable than this verbally abusive Ex.
Thanks again Melissa and David. God Bless.
Verbal Abuse and ADD
I've read this entire page with much interest. I am currently married to a man with ADD, but have an ex-husband who was verbally abusive to the level that the writer describes in her husband. Now, whether or not someone has ADD or any other issue, verbal abuse is an entity unto itself. In my previous relationship we were never able to resolve the verbal abuse issues because it was nearly impossible to find therapists that understood it fully. In an extreme case such as the writer is describing, i.e. punching holes in the wall, calling names, and terrifying his wife, the verbal abuse should be dealt with not as a difficulty in communicating (because frankly he's had anger issues all his life according to his family) but as a separate entity. There are millions of people with ADD who do not react so violently. I believe anger management should be first and foremost in that relationship, in conjunction to ADD counseling. The suggestions that she try to hear him and see what role she plays in this, is not realistic with an anger addict. There is nothing she could have done or said that would ever merit that type of reaction from him. It would be very helpful to search out an excellent book on verbal abuse to understand the issue fully. Most books discuss the best way to find and work with a counselor, so that you are NOT given the blame for their behavior. There is that "it takes two to tango" thought process by many people that derails most attempts to address abuse. You know, sometimes it IS one person's fault entirely.
you've said it better than i ever could
jgsmom, thank you for taking the time to explain your situation. as i have recently posted elsewhere on this site (i think in a buried place because i'm new to this type of forum) i have recently caught my ADD husband having an affair. he put up a ridiculous and flimsy cover story to deny the truth in the face of my discovery and lied to me for a week before i called his lover and got the truth from her. we were scheduled for couples counseling before this new apocalyptic rift and i am of course a mess, we have a young daughter, i desperately want to make things better and save this marriage but his response to my suffering is wholly insufficient -- i tell him we can't begin to address what he calls our "communication issues" until we can work through the affair crisis and he tells me the affair is the result of our/MY issues -- i'm too needy, too depressed, too overwhelmed by life (i work full time and raise our toddler alone during the week while he travels for work). there is very little of the "adults take responsibility for their actions" in his reactions -- something he demands of others, of me -- and he isn't doing even the smallest things to reassure me that (1) he is truly remorseful and (2) he wants to save this marriage.
like you, i'm an educated woman who has gone to lengths to understand his disability and try to find a therapeutic balance between encouraging productive choices, behaviors and tactics for him in his/our life and shouldering too much responsibility myself, be it the so-called "executive functions" of our marriage, all childcare, etc. he has not laid a hand on me sexually in probably 12 months and when i try to talk to him about it he bludgeons me with "you've gained so much weight" and justifies his withdrawal from me and all intimacy -- emotional and otherwise -- on the grounds that _I_ have issues and he has "given up trying to help me". according to him, he was supportive the first "100 times" he had to listen to me struggle with juggling work, parenting, aging parents, difficult sibling dynamics, our money issues, my own body image/health issues (which are legit) but after that, well, it seems there is a limit to his willingness/ability to support me. yes, i have felt completely overwhelmed by the juggling act of working a demanding job and raising a small child but these are the standard stresses of these years of one's life, no? he apparently has a very different picture of what a wife and life should look like.
all of which is utterly devastating. as you state, this is not the man i married. i want more than anything to make this marriage work but it can't just be up to me and i am desperately hopeful that couples counseling will help. i am willing to accept my responsibility for improving things -- as well as my contributions to how bad this has become, as melissa describes elsewhere -- but i cannot do it by myself. when i ask him is he wants to make our marriage work his answer is "i don't know if we can" -- defeatist. terrifying. and not an answer at all.
Take care of you
My heart goes out to you. I am so sorry to hear of your situation, as you know, I can relate. My husband and I are seeing a great therapist about these issues but I still worry that there may be too much damage done, day by day. I would like to really encourage you to remember the things about you that you love. Take care of you. Gather strength from God, and firmly stand your ground, do not compromise on the things you need from your husband to heal you and your marriage. Do not forget that you are a valuable person and that this is his problem! You have stood by him through all of this garbage where many people would have left long ago, which says that you are very committed, determined and have a huge capacity for love and forgiveness. He has to acknowlege that this is abuse and is unacceptable, then he needs to work overtime with a sincere heart to prove to you that he wants to do whatever it takes to build your trust in him. If he can't see how valuable you are it is because all of his "garbage" is blocking his view. So if he refuses to do the work, whatever it takes, to get rid of that "garbage" he will never treat you or your daughter the way you deserve. You are worth much more than that. I hope I am not overstepping, I am not a therapist, I just know how much you are hurting and I really want you to remember that you are valuable and you do deserve someone who would love you the way you love him, and would provide a good example for your daughter. Take care of you and your daughter, I will pray for you.
Recently Discovered Affair
I, too, am so sorry for your situation. As you know from this site, I've been there too. It's too painful for words.
The thing that helped me most was to think NOT in terms of saving the marriage but rather in terms of CHANGING the relationship. Doing this allowed me to look at what I needed as a person in order to be whole again, and allowed me to see my husband as a separate entity outside of my control. It's too easy to fall into the trap of thinking that "saving the marriage" is the be all and end all, but it's not. Because if you give up yourself to save the marriage, it will ultimately fail in any event and you will be completely miserable that you weren't true to yourself.
Your husband has served you notice that he is not to be controlled by you (often part of what an affair is) as well as that he's not happy with your relationship. That may come from unrealistic expectations on his part about what a relationship with a stable and caring women looks like (vs. the "exciting" other woman). Sounds as if the relationship isn't what you would like, either (I noted your comment that you are both holding down a job AND raising your child full time without his help.)
If your relationship (again, forget the marriage for a moment) were perfect, what would it look like? Make a list of the things you want and need to feel fulfilled in this or any other relationship. Be specific. Then think about what YOU could do to move you along that path with this man and what you are going to ask him to contribute. Your counselor can help you with this process.
Affairs take a long time to get over. Forgive yourself for the bad thoughts you are going to have, and find a safe place (either with him or with a counselor or friend) to "mourn" when these come up. As an example, it took me some time to get past imagining how much fun my husband was probably having sexually with his girlfriend. Sometimes this would stop me dead while we were having sex (since I was feeling pretty down on myself at that point). So I gently talked with him about it and told him that I needed his patience with this for a while...and that if I got messed up in my head what I needed was for him to slow down and just hold me and tell me he loved me until I could overcome my grief a bit and move on. Since we talked, and since I had asked for something specific, he was able to do this for me a couple times until I got over this aspect of my recovery.
Another part of my recovery was reminding myself that my imagination is far more vivid than real life ever could be, and by spending lots of time dwelling on imagining what their relationship was like I was only hurting myself, no one else. In point of fact, their relationship was good, and bad. I know she reemed him out good when the going got tough...the women on the other side aren't perfect, either.
Which means that the best that you can do is be yourself, stand up for yourself, and remember that you will always have a relationship with this man - even if you don't end up staying married to him (because you have a child together). Hang in there, accept your own role with humility but don't let him "scare" you or "threaten" you into compromise. Time to be you.
And, yes, he answers "I don't know if we can" because he truly doesn't know right now. Neither do you, if you're being honest about it. But your best bet is to stand tall and proud, be as nice a person as you can be (like you were before all this hurt started and you were feeling betrayed and angry), do the right and ethical thing. Even try to have some fun and lighten up together (does wonders for your relationship to be able to leave the shit behind once in a while - otherwise the "other woman" gets to have all the fun while you wallow in your mutual problems). Either he'll see the woman he loves re-emerge (as my husband did) and really commit to trying or he'll be too scared (which you have no control over).
Oh, and one more thought. I don't know your husband at all, but there is a good chance that this IS the man you married. Remember that your life when you married was significantly "lighter" and easier, you were happier, thinner, didn't have a child, and you weren't negotiating all the time about life's hassles. You are the woman he married - in person and feeling, at least - but your SITUATION is not the situation he married. Some men change to accomodate their surroundings and life's events more easily than others. So as you make that list, think about whether or not there is middle ground that you can meet in. Do you have to be as hard-driving as you are? Are there ways he can take on some responsbilities without feeling so burdened that he longs to escape?
Good luck, and keep us posted.
Where is the line?
I found this site and began reading and cried...I thought I was the only one. My husband has wonderful qualities, but has become increasingly verbally abusive to the point of me questioning whether I should stay with him. The culminating abuse came when I hopped in the shower right after he had crawled into bed right at 10. I thought I'd take a quick shower as I had been busy all evening and it helps me relax for sleep. It was only going to be quick, as I know my husband likes to sleep between 10 and 6. While showering, I heard a screach, then silence. Then while I was naked in the shower (how vulnerable can you be?) he slammed the door open yelling and thrashing the curtain that I was ruining his sleep and how could I be so inconsiderate. He scared the you know what out of me...I was shaking and trembling and I dried and went downstairs to cam down. He came down and continued to berate me. I did finally go to bed and sleep, but I am totally on edge. I never know what is going to set him off. We can be talking calmly for a few minutes, (about his chosen topic) and suddenly he's turned on me and is making little digs. We don't have sex anymore...with the constant berating and demeaning comments, I don't even want to approach him, and he isn't approaching me. I asked him to see a counselor with me, but he refused, saying he only needed to be allowed (by me) to sleep, regardless of the fact that he has totally erratic sleep patterns, and can be up for hours in the middle of the night; he blames me. My husband is not diagnosed as ADHD, but during happier times, he has shared about his inability to focus, his disorganization, his inablity to maintain long term commitments (work, relationship, etc.). I can deal with lots of the traits of ADHD, but the anger and verbal abuse, and the ignoring are weaing me out.
I am seeing a counselor, but I think I need someone who can specifically address the issues I face with an ADHD spouse. I am also reaching out to my friends and spending more time in positive relationships for support.
Any suggestions?
anger issues
I think that someone familiar with ADD might help, though it may be that there are other issues going on as well (sleep apnea???) Obviously it could benefit you both if you could put your finger on what is going on.
The shower incident sounds scary and extremely disconcerting (to say the least). I used to get furious at my hubby when he interfered with my sleep, and would sometimes yell at him (and I'm not ADD). This was a result of my complete and utter anger at him when I felt as if he was "ruining" my life. It's unclear to me whether or not your husband's anger is a reflection of his feelings about your marriage and relationship or whether it might be an ADD thing (if he really is ADD and not something else). In any event, I don't diagnose things (not being a doctor) BUT the real issue is that things are bad between you and it's time to work them out.
Since you don't mention that he has beaten you in any way, it sounds as if it might be time to start standing your ground and point out to him that you understand fully that your marriage is not in good shape right now and that you wish to work with him to make things better for both of you. That would mean working through determining what the most destructive elements are for both of you and then having both of you address the issues of greatest concern. A therapist can help you with this, and probably should given the dynamics you describe - but if you really think he has ADD then you should probably seek out someone who has experience with couples (different from individual therapy), and knows a bit about ADD. Talk with your current therapist about what might make a good game plan, perhaps practicing how you might approach this subject with your hubby.
You might also read Steven Stosny's "You Don't Have to Take It Anymore" as this is an excellent treatise on the "walking on eggshells" part of your relationsihp and what you can do about it that's constructive.
You know you can't go on like this - time to insist that it starts to get fixed. And, keep reaching out for positive reinforcement...
abuse- warning signs
My husband is very verbally abusive and has been throughout most of our marriage (NEVER while dating though). Last night while watching a show about the Chris Brown/ Rhianna incident he made some pretty disturbing statements about how Rhianna probably deserved it, that she is at fault for going back to him and that she deserves it in the future just because of that. I was of course horrified at his reaction. I have suspected that his father was/is physically abusive to his mother...I KNOW for a fact that he is verbally abusive her. Disgustingly so. I also know that my husband had a previous relationship that ended violently, not with him hitting her to my knowledge but it was intense-he said there was a police report. Later on in the evening with no provocation, he grabbed my arm tightly and told me not to hold his arm. I wasn't holding it, I was nudging it off of my chest because I was uncomfortable while trying to sleep. What scared me was the tone of his voice when he said that to me. I was so scared that I was literally frozen in place and didn't talk much after that. This morning he acted like nothing happened which doesn't surprise me since he kissed me right after that. He often switches moods in mere seconds or minutes. Raging one minute to wanting a hug at the next. Anyway, he is in a borderline bad mood this morning. I know him enough to know when he is spoiling for a fight. I feel bad for the people at work today! My question is this: Should I be worried or was that incident nothing? Just me being sensitive? Does verbal abuse always lead to physical abuse?
Thanks
Steph
No toleration for abuse! EVER!!!!
Hi steph,
I know you write a lot on this blog and that is a good thing. I'am writting you to you about what you just wrote.Steph I 'am concerned for you. "the Chris Brown/ Rhianna incident he made some pretty disturbing statements about how Rhianna probably deserved it" Oh please be careful NO ONE EVER EVER DESERVES TO BE HIT!...No one deserves that EVER! I would like to tell some things.(if you don't mind) I helped a lady who came into our church one night and needed help. She ended up telling me that she was running away from another state because she was beaten and choked from her live in boyfriend of almost 10yrs. She ended up in jail ( long story) and lost their kid I helped her alot. she got away from him and kept going back. she ended up back here for some things on her reccord and is on probation. She is living with him again. After talking with her and reminding her of all the things this whimp did to her she says I'am right but she can't leave him. She told me that they are not fighting anymore but I feel her life is in danger. Also I know a pastor and his wife who have a ministry at the womens correctional and after telling him all the things my husband did and where he was headed. ( this was after he was arrested on campus) he gave me advice to get out while I can. He said so many women stay in abusive situations and they are the ones who suffer greatly. He said so many women end up in jail because of their mates. One women who told the story to our church one night after years of verbal and mental abuse she just couldn't take it anymore and stabbed her husband. she is doing well now but is still in jail. of course thats the extreme side but if your husband says things like that and you feel scared I would not think that you are sensitive but not safe either. Yes verbal abuse can lead to physical abuse. Once a person is out of control with their anger it can lead to devastation. If your husband comes from a abusive home he is in the generation of abusers. If he doen't want to stop the next generation(kids) then you need to figure out what you want for your life! You seem to have a big heart please don't let someone break it..There is nothing optomistic about abuse of anykind. Your husband sounds like its just more than adhd. My husband never believes in hurting a woman even through all the crap he put me through. Be careful PLEASE!!!! If your husband grabbed your arm and scared and hurt you that is NOT o.k. I'am not sorry if my words seem hard I'am very concerned about you. Go talk to someone even the abuse helpline to just talk about it . Its all confidential.I will be praying for you .Keep in touch God Bless...
To Optomistic
Thank you for your concern. It makes me feel better knowing that someone cares. I just want to put it out there though that he has not hit me yet. I never felt he would even when his rage was so out of control and intense, however in light of some of his recent comments, now I am not so sure. I will mention all this to my counselor when I go next week and see what she has to say about the situation. She is aware of the generational thing as well. I am being cautious and trying hard not to do or say anything that will cause him to get upset, although there are many times in the past that he has flown into a rage without any warning.
I will continue to read and write on this site as it is my source of peace and while nothing changes, at least I know I am not alone in this.
Bless you
Steph
potential abuse
I would suggest that you do some research into local organizations (or national ones) who can give you more information about the patterns that indicate abuse is likely. Certainly having a family history of abuse is one of them...You want to know how to leave safely if that becomes necessary. Ask your counselor for places you can get more information - don't just rely on this site, for this is not a site about abuse, and we may reassure you that you aren't alone, but we can't really help you physically avoid abuse...you have to do that yourself. Thanks.
where is the line
I've gone thru that for most of the 22 years of my marriage. I regret that I did not leave. Now it is really too late for many reasons. I hope that he is going to follow up on the possiblity that he has ADD. The verbal abuse got so bad several times that I got all of the paperwork together, an attorney and told him it was over. Then he would go for counselling, finally antidepressants helped but it has not been worth it in the long run. It is very rare now that he yells at me but I feel just as abused over our financial situation and his lack of insight into how his problems affect me. I feel painful inside and out, my spirit is broken, I have a hard time asserting myself because he is so defensive it's not worth bringing anything up. Why ask for what I need when I'll be hammered on and told that I am selfish. Then there are the good parts of him that are strong enough to make me doubt myself.
oppositional mindset
Well, things have been progressing slowly and tediously like trying to push a 300lb boulder up a hill. Since we started counseling my husband is better about not losing his temper, and I can see that he is trying but only in his own way which is not working for me. He has such a defiant/oppositional mindset that he refuses to do what I ask and need him to do (or to clarify, he is reluctantly doing the bare minimum) for me to feel like he is truly remorseful and that he really understands the impact his verbal abuse has had on our relationship. It feels like he is fighting me every step of the way.
I am not asking for anything unreasonable, I just want to feel like we are on the same team, for him to consider my feelings/perspective, our relationship as a whole, when evaluating whatever situation arises but he doesn't seem to understand how to get past his own perspective, how to work together, which usually comes off very selfish and unreasonable. Let me give you an example, we watched the movie "Fireproof." It is about a couple on the brink of divorce because of the same reasons we are, but in the end they reconcile because the husband learns how to love his wife through this book called "The Love Dare." This book reads like a daily devotional, it teaches you how to truly love your spouse with daily reminders and then "dares" you to do something that day, like " no matter what do not say anything negative to your spouse today." I rented it because I thought he might see how our relationship is similar, recognize how his behavior affects us like the character in the movie. Then I went out and got the "Love Dare" book, I thought that this would be a good way for him to show me that he is willing to do what it takes to save our marriage. I asked him to please read it, and surprisingly he was agreeable, though he refused to do the "dares" ( I was disappointed, but happy that he was at least willing to read it). He started out okay, but after reading about 4 days worth he quit. This was a very simple task, it only takes a few minutes a day to read, I was so disappointed. So I asked him to talk about it, he lied to me saying that he was reading it when I told him I knew he was lying he got very upset, would not admit to lying about it but then promised to start reading it again and this time he would do the dares. Again after a few days he quit. His commitment to this book is very much like his commitment to the well being of our marriage. He gets so angry with me for not being able to trust him not realizing (though I am always trying to explain) that he makes it impossible for me to do so by lying to me and being so reckless with his words (verbal abuse).
So, to sum it up I feel like I am married to a defiant teenager. He "sings louder than me instead of trying to harmonize"-- If I say red he will say blue, seemingly just because I said red. I feel that you teach people how to treat you by treating them the way you wish to be treated and by explaining to them what you need to feel safe, secure and loved by them. I am so tired of always having to "rise above" and be "the bigger person" giving him chance after chance to do things his way, to show me how much he says he loves me, how much he says he is "doing everything he can" to create a healthy, happy relationship with me all the time listening to what I say I need but never following through, still not reading the book, still trying to do things his way.
How do I get him to see how much happier we would both be if he would just be more open to my feelings and opinions? To at least consider them? To work as a team? I have not given him any reason to feel that he can not trust me this way, I really believe this is a mindset he has.
similar abusive add problems
I am going through almost the same thing and reading your initial post just made me weep. I found this site today after sending a note to my husband's therapist explaining that he is getting into a verbally abusive cycle again. I was desperate to make it stop before it starts all over again. I love him and despite what I say below, I care very much and want to help him get over this. He needs his family and we need him. He can be such an amazing man when he wants to be and when he is not in a bad cycle. We have been married 18 yrs. His mother is also the same way - very belligerent and verbally abusive to people - even in restaurants and groups she belongs to. Despite all his wonderful qualities, he gets obnoxious and belligerent sometimes and makes horrible, cutting remarks to me.
Here is the most recent example: our son moved out 3 months ago in a rage and got in a fight with my husband which almost turned physical between them. My parents got involved later by phone and my mother got very nasty, telling me we were bad parents. My son is diagnosed with behavioral problems of his own and my mother was furious that I had talked to a professional about him cutting himself and drinking/drugs. My mother lives in another country, does not really know my son or my life, but she was getting very aggressive. She wanted me to pretend everything was okay and condone drugs or drinking to keep my son close. She was furious that I listened to my son's psychologist and did what they said and not what she said. Anyway, this turned into a situation where my parents and sister stopped talking to me, my son is gone and he dropped out of college with just a few days left when he had all As and is now working at a Hardees trying to support himself. He was even mugged, but still stayed away from home and I could not convince him to come him.
So my husband is getting into his "tantrum cycle" now. Last night he was in another rage and started insulting me and telling me I have no friends, and nobody wants anything to do with me (ie: my parents and our son). This is just killing me. It hurts so bad, but he will not let up. Tonight he will come home and resume his anger and insults or stomp around in a rage. He has also put holes in walls and threatened to use a reciprocating saw to come into the bedroom when I locked myself in there. So when he gets like that, I am not supposed to lock him out of "his" bedroom. The amount of pain I am in having lost my entire family is horrible and he knows it. I haven't been able to sleep at night for months. He has all sorts of friends at work, but I am studying at home for my MBA. I have friends, but I am happier to have a few friends I trust instead of being Miss Popularity.
For 18 yrs my husband always gets into these verbally abusive behaviors preceding every single visit with his mother - he literally puts our whole family through the wringer and rips us to shreds for weeks. After the visit with his mother is over, he will be fine and acts like he doesn't know what he did wrong.
Plus, he gets ideas in his head that are totally wrong, and can be proven wrong, but he will not admit it. Our daughter is a bit overweight but she works out at home. Because he is not there to see it, he accuses her of being lazy and not working out. Even after I tell him she has worked out, he refuses to believe it and keeps badgering her like a dog that won't let go of a bone until she cries. He won't quit and he does the same with me. He'll say things like "I know what you're trying pull" when I am not trying to do anything. He gets himself convinced I am planning some revenge on him and always assumes the worst about me. For example, his mother is 90 and was having hip surgery last fall. I wanted her to wait, but she was very impatient and did not want to see if the hip would get better first or really investigate the cause of her back/hip pain. A friend had told her she had a new hip so my MIL wanted one too. I advised waiting and getting adequate medical opinions first, because she is a bit of a hypochondriac and had convinced doctors on previous occasions that she needed surgery, which she did not need in the end. I did not want to see her have complications from surgery, because at 90 yrs old in the middle of a flu epidemic, I thought it was risky and she lives alone, very far away from us with no other family if something happened. Well, he was treating me horribly for months for saying she should hold off on the surgery for a few months. He accused me of wanting to see her in pain. I am a good person, I work as a volunteer trying to save lives - I would never hurt anyone or wish to see anyone in pain, ever. I have a very soft heart and this really hurt me, that he would think this of me, but he didn't care. He had it in his head that I had ulterior motives which was not true. I simply wanted the lady to delay and ensure this surgery would be okay and would help, not hurt her.
He also lies a lot and gets caught in his lies very often - mostly regarding when he left work. I like to have him home for dinner before 7 but he is always late and refuses to get up earlier so he can spend time with his family. If I cook a big dinner, he will say he is not hungry because he ate out at lunch. He will not take any constructive criticism and walks around like he has a big chip on his shoulder all the time. He acts like he is jealous of me doing my MBA and will purposely try to derail my work. It will build to a blow up and then, boom, he'll be fine for 8-9 months and it will start all over again, but I will be left torn to shreds for months.
I don't have the first clue what to do. He won't tell me what his doctor says usually, but I was invited to fill out some tests. He was going to get his mother to fill them out, meanwhile she hasn't lived with him for 25 years!!! She doesn't have any idea what he is like at home. When I asked him if he wanted to talk about it, that I would be open, he said "You are the last person I would talk to about anything." He can be so cruel and he doesn't seem to care enough to stop doing it.
No Hope
I can't take the verbal abuse anymore. It's so bad and he won't stop. It's beyond walking on eggshells...I'm petrified to speak. I try to be so gentle, patient, loving and caring and I'm bashed like I'm scum. I'm losing my self worth and I'm taking 2 antidepressants because it has gotten so bad. Although he had outbursts when we met he used to love and cherish me...now he says he hates me and being around him makes him feel uncomfortable. What happened? The doctor increased his zoloft and gave him ADHD medication on a need to take basis. He has NO control over his behavior and is a monster. I've really tried...I feel like there is no hope.