9 Tips for When Non-ADHD Spouses Just Can’t Cope Anymore
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Wed, 01/04/2012 - 15:18
Some days you just don’t have the energy to cope with your partner’s ADHD symptoms any more. What can you do? Here are nine tips to help you survive…
Keep your cool. Blowing up will only hurt, compounding your image as a nag or unreasonable spouse. This is not in your best interest, as it allows your partner to write you off rather than remain respectful. So, instead of getting angry, let the issue (whatever it was)“slide past” you when you just don’t have the energy to deal with it calmly right then.
Jot it down. Non-ADHD partners are sometimes slow to let things pass because thy fear their partner will “wander off” and that will be that. Counteract this by jotting a note about what needs to be addressed so you can deal with it at a later time, perhaps with a counselor. For example, you might write “late getting kids to school on Tuesday by 30 minutes” or “interrupted multiple times at dinner on Friday.” After a while, you may see patterns that will help you convince your partner that his or her behavior is more difficult than they originally thought.
Do something nice for yourself / be selfish. When faced with persistent ADHD symptoms, non-ADHD spouses tend to focus more and more on their ADHD spouse, rather then on themselves…to their detriment. For example, in my case, the more unhappy I became, the more I started thinking about my husband - what he wasn’t doing and should have been; how much his actions impacted our family; how inconsiderate he was, how unreliable he was, etc. This meant I forgot about me – very unhealthy! So when things really get tough, do something for yourself – take a nap, do that project that’s been hanging over your head (unapologetically dump the kids on your spouse), get a massage, read a book in the local park, eat some really healthy food, go to bed early, or exercise. All will improve your state of mind, the last (exercise) particularly so. Or, as the ad says, “you deserve it!”
Insist on being heard…later. When you are exhausted and frustrated is not the time to address difficult issues. Wait until you are in a better frame of mind, then sit down with your partner and explain what you need - calmly. You don’t want to give up on your needs, but neither do you wish to sabotage yourself by seeming unreasonable, angry or otherwise difficult to deal with. (This sabotages you because it gives your partner an excuse to retreat – and nothing gets solved that way!)
Keep a journal. Sometimes exhaustion is another form of not having any more ideas. Writing in a journal can help you expose your feelings and explore alternate approaches to your problems. It also can provide some much-needed quiet, self-focus time. Writing in our forum is also a good way to get new ideas.
Find a friend. Go out for dinner or drinks, take a walk together, visit a local museum. Get a sitter if needed. Knowing you have support helps you get through. Too many non-ADHD partners isolate themselves as they struggle to work through their marital problems, maintain control of their lives and the house.
Listen. When you’ve finally found the energy you need to interact again, make sure to listen. All too often non-ADHD spouses get used to “ordering” their ADHD spouses around and don’t realize they aren’t really listening to their partner. Converse, don’t order. Listen and question. This will encourage participation in your partner, and that can be enough to re-energize you.
If you can afford it, hire it out. Get stuff off your plate by hiring it out. Housework, yardwork, filing, decluttering and organizing, and babysitting can all be effectively hired out. This type of delegation will help prevent future stress.
Create a plan. The eight tips above should help you find more energy and new approaches. Creating a plan about how to get out of your current slump will make you feel better.
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When Reality is Ignored
by Melomom - 01/05/2012 - 00:48
I liked these suggestions so much, I bookmarked this page and will probably refer to it often. We are starting the couples seminar next week, and I'm really hoping it will save our marriage.
But, what happens when he literally doesn't see what is actually happening? What do I do when his recall of what JUST happened is factually incorrect, and we go to Argue-ville and there's no return? I retreat into my tears, hopelessness, frustration, anger, hurt, etc only to wonder how something so small is piling up to something SO big - like the end of a marriage.
I have often said/thought if only he could see a video of himself, he would be SHOCKED. Maybe our divorce will be the final reveal for him.
I have often said/thought if
by HappyMedium - 01/05/2012 - 10:59
I have often said/thought if only he could see a video of himself, he would be SHOCKED.
I used to think the same way. That if I could just record our life to show him..... Lately though, I realize that would be useless. He's gone from mostly denying to putting the blame on me. He might admit he over reacted or was verbally abusive or whatever else, he might even apologize for it. But then he justifies it by either putting the blame on me or pointing out what he perceives as a character flaw on my part. A really good example of this is the day before Christmas Eve. He went out bar hopping with his friends and I was pretty upset about it. Especially when I seen how much money he spent (earlier in the week he had made a big deal out of me spending $75 at a bargain store on Christmas gifts for our children, while my friend was in the room). In his mind, his actions were acceptable and I wouldn't be so upset if I weren't so materialistic and selfish. I didn't think I was being materialistic or selfish, I was actually thinking along the lines of "it's better to give than receive" and putting others before yourself. Spending money he could have used for his family (who have helped us out tremendously in the past year) or his children, on booze was acceptable to him. He further solidified his thoughts by telling me that until he spends more on himself than what we spend in food for a year, that I have no right to say anything. What he didn't realize is that last year, he did exactly that.
I believe with my DH, there's a level of narcissism that accompanies his ADHD. His word is law, because it's HIS word.
Memory issue...
by YYZ - 01/05/2012 - 12:16
We ADDer's have issues with Short Term Memory moving to Long Term too quickly or disappearing altogether :-? The reason I know about being So Sure of a memory is because I recall it very well, the problem is it can be like the Cliff's Notes of the conversation. The bullet points with detail missing and that can make a huge in the future discussion.
I would Hate this, but if you have your phone on you, just record the conversation. Then if it comes up again, you have Real Memory of the conversation of Both of you. A little un-fair because the ADDer would not know he was being recorded.
I can tell you that after being treated for my ADD with Adderall, my memory has improved quite a bit. There is hope :)
Sorry, it wont work (at least
by lululove - 01/05/2012 - 15:02
Sorry Lulu...
by YYZ - 01/05/2012 - 15:58
It's too bad he does not understand what is happening inside himself. Even now I have to try and hold back reacting to things at home. My wife cannot seem to let go of her anger. Not just at me, but when she is agitated it quickly get pointed at me. It is weird that many times we are just goofing around (Fun has been rare for a while), then at some point it turns into an agitation to her. Like she realizes I've tricked her into not being productive and now she feels like time has been wasted...
I have thought about
by Melomom - 01/05/2012 - 21:50
I have thought about recording him many times, and knowing him the way I do, if he found out, he would absolutely feel attacked, blind-sided, ambushed, and he would come out swinging. A small example of how I know this was when I had made a list to take to one of our therapy sessions about specific things that had happened in our interactions. I brought the list out during the session, and he looked/acted like I had physically attacked him. He was sweating, nervous, shaky, reactive, he completely shut down and didn't hear anything that was said. He said he felt "attacked", and then felt "defensive" and "how could I compile a list and blind-side him with it at a therapy session?"
I understand that short term/long term memory is an issue with how "crowded" and "noisy" his brain is. I've done the research, the reading, I try to learn more every day. What bothers me is that he absolutely refuses to admit that what he did, was actually What He Did. He thinks just because he didn't have the Intention to be an a**hole, that automatically means he Wasn't. He also thinks that if he apologizes for it, everything is ok. (See my post on "I've just heard the Millionth apology").
He was on Adderall, and stopped taking it b/c he claimed it caused sleep disturbance. (Never mind the Gallons of alcohol, his daily schedule that he changes widely every day, the other meds he's on, etc. - No, that wouldn't cause sleep disturbance - it was Automatically the Addrerall.) When he was on it, I saw pauses in him before he would react. I saw slower thinking. I saw concentration. I saw an awareness of those around him. But, he decided to just stop taking it, and not tell me until 6 weeks later In A Therapy Session!
I vascilate on the Hope Scale every day, every hour sometimes, from complete down in the depths despair to maybe, just maybe, a miracle will happen.
If someone came to me with a
by summerwine - 01/05/2012 - 22:00
If someone came to me with a list of all the things I did wrong that week or a video they made of me without my consent to show me how awful I am that would be a deal breaker. I'm pretty sure that I would freak out just thinking of it upsets me. Like seriously I had to get out of my chair and walk around just now! I know that I am worthless and stupid and horrible compared to other women because of my ADHD you don't have to rub my nose in it or collect evidence.
I can understand that
by lululove - 01/06/2012 - 00:35
When I have thought about
by Melomom - 01/06/2012 - 02:00
When I have thought about recording/video taping, it has always been in a desperate, dark hour. It's never something I would want to do to hurt him, simply to reveal to him in hard black and white evidence the things he does that he is so vehemently denying. (See my post above.)
I understand how you would
by Melomom - 01/06/2012 - 01:57
I understand how you would feel if someone came to you with a list...........but here's where it gets complicated. In my post I said: "I had made a list to take to one of our therapy sessions about specific things that had happened in our interactions." I did not say a list of 'all of the things he did wrong' or that he is 'worthless and stupid and horrible'. However, that was his reaction too, unfortunately. He took "the list" as a bad thing, as a negative, as something I was using against him. I hadn't even said in my post what "the list" contained. On the advice in Melissa's book, and from the advice of our marriage counselor, I had written down specific things that had been said by both of us during certain interactions that ended badly. This "list" was meant to clarify exactly what had been said, what had been misinterpreted, what had not been heard, etc. This "list" was meant as a learning tool to see what exactly happened that made the interaction end so badly, and how to change a similar interaction in the future. This applies to both of us, because my reactions to him are equally just as much of a culprit for things going bad as anything he does. I have long ago given up the notion of trying to 'rub his nose in it' because it doesn't do anything but hurt him, and me. I want us to learn what is going wrong in the moment, and stop it dead in it's tracks, and change it in the future.
Blind-sided by a list would be bad...
by YYZ - 01/06/2012 - 07:40
I think it would only work if both had a list and the couple agreed on when to review, or present the list in a therapy session. Sometimes I think about making a list myself regarding angry moments bringing up old history, unless I start repeating it of course then I would deserve it, or references to Adderall as Speed, rarely calling it Adderall. I'm sure my list could compete if we decided to do something like that for a therapy session.
Summerwine... You are not worthless or stupid compared to other women, I think everyone is defective in one way or another. We just have ADD and are trying to deal with it. I think dealing with your issues is more of what defines you.
I haven't had to resot to a list
by Aspen - 01/06/2012 - 09:29
I haven't had to resort to a list of the type that is being talked about here, but I see nothing AT ALL wrong with doing it in a plea for help.
I don't get the extreme reaction some people are having to a list and/or video. When one person is saying "X is happening daily, Y is happening multiple times a week, and Z is out of control and these are things that are becoming deal breakers in the marriage", and the reaction of the other person is "None of those things are happening and all our problems are caused by YOUR lousy attitude" what else could provide such complete evidence of what exactly is happening?
We read here all the time " I had no idea that my behavior/attitude/treatment of my family was so bad until after my diagnosis and taking meds", well a list/video can cut through some of that immediate denial and cause a reasonable person to say 'HOLY CRAP WHAT AM I DOING?' Even if it doesn't cause that reaction in the person in ADD, it certainly can help a doctor who is getting a lot of he said/she said, with the information needed to make a diagnosis and get the help coming faster.
I just find it ridiculous to hear that having a list or vid made of them could be a deal breaker for some. What the heck?!?! A deal breaker.....really? When your mate hasn't used the behavior as a deal breaker but is instead trying to get help for you both but cutting through the BS and proving once and for all THIS IS HAPPENING and we have to DEAL WITH IT?
I think a list/video is a good idea for a mate in denial, but fortunately my ADD mate never drove me to that point. If in the future he ever goes into denial about his behavior at any point, I will do what is necessary to try to pull him out because I love him and our marriage. I would certainly hope he'd do the same for me if I am the one in denial!
I am so baffled by this is that I called my ADD husband in share the scenario, and he said it would be embarrassing to him to have a list come out at the doctor's and that he'd probably get quiet because of that. He also said it would be an upsetting thing, but that he certainly can't believe it would be more upsetting than what I would be going through in having him so in denial that I need a list to wake him up. He also came back in to make it clear that his embarrassment would mostly be about having behaved this way without realizing it and then having to have it pointed out in front of another person to make him accept it. He does NOT think that would be my fault if I was driven to do that.
BUT I put him on notice that if he ever goes into a denial that is hurting our marriage, I will definitely makes lists and/or videos to get us help, so he can't claim it was done entirely without his knowledge...he laughed and agreed to that :)
Seriously I wouldn't like this to happen to me either....no one would want to be in this situation but I see the greater problem to be in bad behavior that is being denied verses taking a video to reveal this bad behavior and get help. It isn't to be used as a club to beat another person with.......it is a tool to get HELP. When 2 people aren't seeing the same reality, something has to happen to get them on the same page if you don't want your marriage to be destroyed.
Hubby just came back to say
by Aspen - 01/06/2012 - 09:41
that he has thought of recording our family meetings just for his own reference because when we disagree on what was decided, he could often swear that he is right.....unfortunately this is seldom true. He'd like to have it for his own reference and to help him understand where the breakdown occurred. I take notes at our meetings (too many disagreements about what we decided so now there is a written record), so he usually goes with what is written down BUT in his head he still kinda believes something else was said or he is curious about how he got his thought if that wasn't what was actually said. He thinks a recording could help him trace the problem.
This is the first I've heard of him doing that, but I will encourage him to do it at our next family meeting. I have no problem with recordings as I think a completely unbiased 3rd party can frequently cut through the emotions attached to yet another misunderstanding. Just go back to the record and see.........the end. Sounds blissful to me!
Recording with consent
by arwen - 01/09/2012 - 13:37
Aspen, I really think you and hubby are on the right track here.
There have been several times along the journey of life with my ADHD spouse that I have had recourse to recording, with his consent.
I don't see this as a mechanism for "gotcha". It's a mechanism to provide an objective reference. My memory isn't perfect either, even if it is a whole lot better than his. So I have always proposed it to him as simply that, an objective reference, so we don't have to spend so much time arguing, we can just go back to the tape. And, the recording will show whether *either* of us is doing anything inappropriate. For my spouse, this is better than the alternative of not taping and arguing, because he knows that I will not let a truly important conflict go, I will persist and drive him nuts with it (but in the nicest possible way -- not by being naggy, or self-righteous, or superior -- but because I am truly disturbed), plus it drives him even crazier than the persistence if I begin dysfunctioning because I don't have resolution.
This proposal has had some interesting effects. After the first time, my husband was dismayed at how poorly he had recalled what he'd said/done, and had to admit that my recollection had been closer to what the recording reflected. The second time, he didn't want to repeat the same experience as the first time, so he worked harder to behave more thoughtfully. That was fine with me -- I don't care much *how* or *why* he improves his behavior, if running a recorder does the trick, OK by me. The third time, he somewhat shame-facedly told me that recording wasn't necessary, he could see I was right if he really thought back on it, and he would work to improve. The fourth time he angrily answered that it was fine with him, he didn't care, but it sounded mostly like bravado to me, and darned if his behavior didn't improve even though I didn't record.
I didn't need to propose recording all that much, because we had kids who have excellent memories and could recite back to him, "chapter and verse", conversations and actions that they had witnessed. So they had already "primed" him to some extent for the results of the recordings.
I should mention that there were other benefits from the recording. I discovered that *I* had some conversation/negotiating habits that I wouldn't have liked being on the receiving end of, too! Fixing them helped our relationship along. And my spouse was more willing to be recorded, knowing that I would be fair and criticize my own behavior as thoroughly as I criticized his.
I think if you can genuinely approach the idea of recording your interactions with your spouse in this kind of way, and not use it as a "told you so" whip, you may be able to make some useful progress with this kind of tool.
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
recording conversations
by beensolong - 02/06/2012 - 21:52
this is SO helpful! I bought a recorder years ago but didn't have the nerve to record conversations. I kept thinking if I remember it with enough detail, he'll realize I'm the one who's remembering correctly. I've finally realized that even if I relay vivid details to him, that doesn't mean he'll be reasonable. He's an intelligent man & how can he ignore reason?-sure doesn't work that way-it's such a great idea to record him with consent because I don't know about anyone else but my husband's behaviour is always appropriate with other people besides the people in his house. How much of this,
I wonder though can be attributed to-he'll behave as badly as he can get away with-can anyone relate to this?
Dear Summerwine
by JandJ - 01/18/2012 - 18:27
You are NOT worthless and stupid and horrible compared to other women because of your ADHD. Nor am I. This kind of thinking is a trap. Out of all of these comments this struck a chord in my heart. I understand. I always think to myself: "Do you think I LIKE being this way? Yes, it is FANTASTIC!!"
NOT
.. however. Even my very frustrated non-adhd husband, would not tolerate me speaking about myself that way.
When I DO feel this way, and hubby can tell I'm deeply hurting (and he is not over the edge frustrated with me!) he says: "All you can do is get up every morning and try again."
Sounds familiar...
by YYZ - 01/18/2012 - 19:11
When you said "Do you think I LIKE being this way? Yes, it is FANTASTIC!!"...
I had a similar response to my DW one day when I got blasted for forgetting to pick up something from the store on my way home from work. I remembered all day long that I only had one thing to get on my way home. During my commute an old friend called out of the blue and derailed my objective. I instinctively drove home on auto-pilot and ended the call with my friend in my driveway. I walked inside without my "Item" and both barrels of her gun fired at me. "How could you...!!!" In the past I would have wanted to crawl in a hole, because nothing I said would be right or not sound like another excuse. I am not so quiet anymore. I looked at her and said "I forgot On Purpose, because I didn't want to pickup "The Item" and because "THIS" is such a FUN conversation!!!"
I don't usually say some of the bad thoughts about myself out loud, but have certainly thought them many times...
As the non partner in the marriage
by Aspen - 01/19/2012 - 09:48
I have also heard these statements you seem to find to be so brilliant. "I forgot because I wanted to", "I forgot because I find this conversation to be so much fun". I know it is said out of frustration, but here is the problem from the other side.
Our mate is the one forgetting all the time and makes us feel at times that he/she absolutely can't be relied on to simple things and major things in our marriage. This makes us feel all alone and like the weight of everything is on our shoulders. We both get frustrated that you can't remember, but YOU are the only one who can do anything about it. We feel like we are just along for the ride sometimes.
You always seem to want us just to be 'it's ok, I know it is hard for you to remember, no biggie' and we try. Sometimes we do feel that way, but sometimes that seems like it makes you relax and forget MORE...at least with my husband as I certainly can't speak to your experience.
When I get angry things seem to snap into focus for a bit and he really gets on the ball with using his external tools to remember things. So often the attitude from the ADD/ADHD partner is that we are expecting them to all of a sudden have an awesome memory. I don't know a single nonADD mate who feels that way. What we want you to do, since it is a given that your memory is poor, is to consistently use the tools that we've come up with together to help you remember. Remember that smart phone that we had to have so you could remember better? Yeah it isn't only for angry birds. We want you to demonstrate that you are aware....every time my husband agrees to do something and doesn't write it down......or especially if I remind him to put it in his phone and he says "it's ok hon I've got it". I know there is at least a 50% chance that he doesn't have it.......why doesn't he realize that? And I am doing my best to be supportive when I hear, "I forgot all about that. I am so sorry. I should have put it in my phone the way you suggested". And I am trying to support and just say to try to do it that way next time, when sometimes what I really want to say is "YOU THINK?!?!?!" "Only had this diagnosis for 4 years now....still living in the I-have-it-in-my-memory Fantasyland?"
So when I get really frustrated after a week of support support support.......cause we all know a bad week can cause a lot of the balls to come crashing down all together. And say, perhaps angrily I can admit it, "How could you forget again?" "We talked about this twice.....we blah blah blah" and when the reaction is a angry/sarcastic/frustrated "I forgot because I really really like having this conversation with you!"--well I can't even tell you how infuriated that makes me.....like I want to unload both barrels at him of every forgetful irritating thing he's done.
We ALL have to stop acting like we aren't in this together. Based on my marriage if you think you are doing something about 70% of the time, it is probably being done at best about 50%. To be fair we are now on an 'as needed' medication plan...so he is not on medication much more than he is, so maybe some of you are doing better than that, but even at his very best my husband was forgetting a lot and thinking he was doing great. We're trying to give you credit for all the things you do well. Please try to give us credit for all the times we don't yell/get angry/get hurt by the things you forget.
We had been doing great on this issue before my husband's doctor decided to try him on meds on an 'as needed' basis.....meaning he only takes one or two a week on a our busiest days. This is causing him to forget more and me to feel like our steps are going backward instead of forward. But then I find out that since he is out of the habit of taking a pill every day, he sometimes forgets to take them on the busy days.............AHHH I see the problem now. And fortunately he goes back to his doctor on Friday to review this stupid "as needed" plan, but in the meantime when I try to talk to him about all the balls he is dropping, he is willing to discuss it but he is baffled because in his mind he is completely the same as on full medication.
When I mess up or forget
by summerwine - 01/19/2012 - 11:09
When I mess up or forget something people aren't looking for me to say I'm sorry and I will try harder. They want to rant on and on about every little thing I did wrong all week. Then I am expected to agree that I am such a horrible person. The I have to promise that I will stop being such a horrible screw up. Do you really think we should just lay there like a dog and be kicked for having a disability? Do I really have to hand out constant apologies for my disability? This is why we are trying neutral reminders with my counselor. Instead of moralizing and making the person who screwed up feel worthless we just remind them. No need to apologize or explain or excuse or get into how crappy a person you are. Just "You forgot this, do you need help remembering tomorrow?" end of story.
Summerwine, I can see the value of that
by Aspen - 01/19/2012 - 12:14
I can see why you don't want to apologize for having a disability (perhaps your ADD is far worse than my husband's because he insists that is it no where near the level of disability--there is nothing he can't do, but it is hard for him to get all the ducks in a row and doall the things that need to be done consistently).
No one should have to apologize for having a disability/challenge/difference......whatever you want to call it. But what do you see as your responsibility in this?
I have no issue with "You forgot this. Do you need help remembering next time?" Not one tiny bit........but after say 5 times on the same thing or some other arbitrary number that will also be affected by my stress levels and whether or not I am doing 10 other things while you struggle to remember this one......I am really over the happy happy nice nice response. We are all human. No one has limitless patience. And sometimes the person who is forgetting is the one that needs to be doing something else to remember.
Do I think that should become a tirade on everything that has been forgotten over the course of a 10 year marriage? NO NO NO I think that is wrong. But I think sometimes in defensiveness there is the above response "I forgot cause I LIKE to...cause this is just so #*( FUN!" and yes the reaction you are triggering with THAT response if you give it to me is, "you think I don't have reason to get upset at your forgetfullness?? Well lets just take a walk down memory lane!"
Do I think this is right? NO and I try to restrain it, again but it is wrong on both sides. Being disappointed personally for forgetting again doesn't justify taking it out on the other person who was relying on you. Actions have consequences and there are various levels of hurt and disappointment based on what got forgotten and how important it is. I think the way to handle that when you forget (and hey I forget too and I try to do it also) is to step up like an adult and take responsibility for failing in whatever responsibility was forgotten. It doesn't matter if it happens 10 times a day, if you drop the ball you should apologize for it and hopefully brainstorm a better way to remember or perhaps accept you are never going to do it and decide if the other mate wants to take it on.
My position is when my husband is remembering the majority of things, and some fluke comes up like XYZ getting that phone call on the way home that screwed up his plan to pick something up. Ok that is something that happens to everyone. Based on how badly I need the item, I could go into town and get it (we are about 15 min out so it is best to get things on the way), or he often offers to go get it (which I usually don't have him do unless it is important) or we just laugh or eye roll together and try to remember it next time.
I have never kicked my husband like a dog or anything else for having ADD, and I am honestly rather offended on behalf of nonADD mates everywhere that you would even suggest such a thing. But I am just going to assume that you are dealing with abusive situations or great frustration that I am not identifying with. I can certainly agree that is a horrible way to feel if that is what you feel is happening to you. I would be interested to hear what the explanation would be from the other side too.
Summerwine, I am honestly interested in what your solution to the memory issue or any other common ADD issue is. I believe I have read the majority of your posts on this site and you come across as defensive and like you feel you have to defend ADD/ADHD mates everywhere because as a group you are under attack.
If I have contributed to that feeling for you or for any other person who has ADD, I sincerely apologize. All the nonADD mates that I know and almost all of the ones I read about here are trying our best to support a mate who is giving us very little feedback in what they need...mostly because they just don't know what they need and don't tend to be the most introspective people and thus don't spend a lot of time figuring it out. There are books like Melissa's or Dr Hallowell's that help, but sometimes we are just all flying by the seat of our pants and trying to figure it out and sometimes getting it wrong.
I really look to women with ADD to help me know what is really needed maybe because I just see the females to be so much better at communicating the needs and feelings of the ADD mate to me. I need this. I appreciate this.
But genuinely sometimes I feel like the advice amounts to 'be patient always, loving always, accept what they did and praise them for it, be quick to let of what what didn't get done and remind gently'. I am working on those things but I am human too with regular stresses. And sometimes those behaviors seem to heighten the problem as it makes the ADD mate feel like it isn't a big deal that they forget.
My husband seems to do fairly well with a mix of kindness, patience, gentle reminders, and an angry butt kicking once in a while! I am not kidding.......that seems to get him back on track even if neither of us want it to happen, sometimes I have to say "You have put this project off for 2 months and have moved the deadline that you set for yourself 3 times (we are at this point with a work project) So my position on it right now is "This is unacceptable and I am going to set a new deadline and heaven help him if he misses it again" Now I haven't said that because it sounds too parental, but something along that line has to happen, but I am not sure how to address it without fury at this point.
He and his coach discussed it yesterday and she said he was being ridiculous and had to do it, but I didn't get any specifics as to when what I need might be in my hand.
I don't know, sometimes I just can't figure out what the ADD/ADHD mates really want, need, and expect of us. Limitless patience I do not have, but limitless love I do.
Disclaimer: I have had an exhausting week and don't mean to sound testy if that is how I am coming across. My husband has been forgetful and not good at accomplishing things this week that need to be done by him but that he also doesn't like to do.
On the plus side: This morning I ended up taking the day off volunteering cause I slept badly and woke with a terrible headache. He was really gentle with me and offered to make tea so I could lay down on the couch. He asked if I was feeling bad as I was slow to get going, and I just said I had a really bad headache and was going to have a low key day. He kissed my forehead, looked at me very lovingly, and said "Yeah I think this headache is on me. I hope you feel better hon" and it made SOOO much difference to me. I know he isn't stressing me out on purpose, but it is good to know that he also realizes the result of this type of stress for me is migraines and that he does see part of his job as a loving mate is to not cause that too. Hopefully when he gets home that might even translate into him getting some things done!
Just a for instance from yesterday
by Aspen - 01/19/2012 - 12:32
Not sure if it was handled well or badly quite honestly, but it was all I had in me at the time. Our computers and printers are networked, but the hub computer (or whatever the heck you call it) is my husband's and his motherboard shorted so the hub is down which means every time I have to print something, I have to wade through the pig sty that is his office and plug the printer into my laptop directly.
We have many many discussions about his office, he cleans it, I clean it, we clean it together and within 1 day it is heading back into pig sty territory....he seems to think "my man cave can look however cause it is my space", but food dishes, old drinks, stacks of unfiled work papers--none of this is ok and he knows it and at least verbally agrees with it.
The original computer problem was his video card which was still under warranty and after no less than 6 months of nagging him, he got it replaced for free from the company......to be fair for at least 3 of those months he honestly apparently thought he had sent it in. I will never understand that but I can accept it. For those 6 months he was hyperfocusing on his new netbook, so he didn't care that the hub was down, but his desktop is his gaming computer and there is some new online game he wants to play, so now all of a sudden he is interested in fixing it.
Got new upgraded vid card and turns out when the old one went bad it also shorted out his motherboard. Now since he didn't care about this computer for 6 months, I really don't care about it anymore, but now he is suddenly interested and is pressuring me to add a motherboard to the budget.
He mentioned it again yesterday as I sat in his office chair surrounded by crap, and I looked at him and said "I don't want to hear one more word about a motherboard until after this office is cleaned up. You promised it would be cleaned up 2 weeks ago, and I don't want to hear about anything that you want that you can't use your own blow money for until some of these things you have been avoiding get done."
Does that sound like a parent? Sorta it does to me, but you know what else it sounds like? Someone who isn't going to allow their patience to be taken for granted. You make the agreement and you fulfill it or you certainly don't suggest that our family prioritizes your wants--esp whims.
Suggestions as to how to deal with it better?
The way I see it is this" If
by summerwine - 01/20/2012 - 12:04
The way I see it is this" If you husband got hit on the head at work and the doctor said "he is not going to remember stuff like he used to" would you see any point in getting angry with him when he forgets things? Wouldn't you change your priorities? If it takes Sherri twice as long to walk somewhere because of her disability should I make her apologize for being slow and making us late? Or should I just say "Hmmm I think we should leave earlier next time". If she refused to leave earlier next time then I can see why you'd be annoyed but not if she is always trying to go as fast as she can. I am always trying to go as fast as I can but I still keep having people scream at me to HURRY UP! That doesn't make me want to hurry up, it makes me want to say FUCK YOU and walk away.
Here's a link to ADHD and working memory retraining working memory can work with kids but it's almost impossible for adults. Instead we have to try to use external things like calendars and stuff. It's crutches. I am walking around with a bad leg, the crutches make me go faster than if I don't have them but I will never walk as fast as you. I want the world to please stop screaming at me for not being as fast as you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatment_of_ADHD_through_working_memory_tr...
WHY DO YOU EXPECT YOUR ADHD HUSBANDS TO BE CAPABLE OF DOING THINGS AND REMEMBERING THINGS LIKE SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE ADHD?????????
I, for one, do not have this expectation
by Aspen - 01/20/2012 - 16:57
WHY DO YOU EXPECT YOUR ADHD HUSBANDS TO BE CAPABLE OF DOING THINGS AND REMEMBERING THINGS LIKE SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE ADHD?????????
The short answer: I don't
Because I am not capable at leaving anything at a short answer LOL....
What I do expect is that when he chooses to take on a project that is important, that he USES his crutches to keep this project from falling completely off the radar. You take it on and you do it, or you revise it, or you go talk to the person you committed to and explain why you can't do it. DO NOT leave it sitting for months on end doing nothing about it.
I am not trying to hurry a man up constantly who is trying to walk with crutches. I am walking alongside him trying to carry the other stuff so that he can use his hands for the crutches. If he chooses not to use his crutches cause he thinks he can walk just fine alone, he is going to be expected to do as well as he had been doing with his crutches or go back to the crutches. Function at his best......that is all any of us are expected to do, right?
I think the memory problem we are having currently is that the 'as needed' medicinal route has not worked well......mostly because the majority of the time he was doing it, no one bothered to inform me. I went from a very well functioning husband to one who was doing substantially worse, esp during stressful times when he was needed to be stepping up. I was regularly trying to find out why he seemed so overwhelmed and was dropping balls, but he honestly didn't notice that he was so he couldn't say "I did well yesterday cause I took my meds and since I didn't take them today, I am a bit fuzzy headed" He honestly did not notice a change other than I seemed to be asking a lot about what was going on...he thought his memory and output were the same. THIS is the true danger that is ADD in my mind.
And this makes me have a REAL issue with doctors messing with the meds of a person who has a disorder that causes perception issues without clueing in the mate. Eric says he didn't tell me because he wanted an honest reaction from me as to how he was doing and not one colored by whether or not I knew he was taking a pill that day. He has gotten an earful from both me and his coach about why that plan was detrimental to what we were actually trying to accomplish.........but that is obviously another story.
After his last appt I was filled on the planned schedule of which days his pill would regularly be taken and what additional scheduling issues would trigger him to take it at other times. I found out this week that 1/2 the time he is forgetting entirely to take it when he told me he would be. This is a lot like a man who is refusing crutches to me......or refusing his crutches (the meds) and then also deciding to forgo the braces too (external reminders).
I haven't had to be involved in reminding him to take his meds for years. It is something he absolutely wants to do himself, but he is going to have to change what he is doing in some way so that it will start to work or go back on daily meds. I don't care which, but he needs to be working as well as he is able to......whatever that happens to be.
Honestly, it seems to me that frequently just saying "I have X expectation for my mate with ADD" is too often met with the response, "You can't expect him to act like a person without ADD". I am NOT expecting that. I am just expecting him to act like a person with ADD who is doing his best to get the things done that he has decided are important. It is hard for us all to determine what that level is.........add in a mate who is frequently not self-aware and it just got harder.
It is true that a person without ADD will never understand what is like to have it, but it is also true that a person with it will never understand what it like to live without it. If you have ADD and also happen to have a loving, supportive mate (certainly not the case for all), you have no idea of how many accomadations are being made for you and how much your nonADD mate is already doing. If they ask for you do better in one area, it is not fair to quickly jump to the conclusion that they are now expecting you to act nonADD. Believe me my husband, as generally high functioning as he is, does not act like he doesn't have ADD....nor he is expected to.
I don't know if you saw the
by SherriW13 - 01/20/2012 - 18:01
I don't know if you saw the videos Summerwine (I THINK??) posted a link to..but the doctor that spoke in that series of videos said that "part time" or "only during the week" kind of dosing for ADHDers was a thing of the past and 'old school'. Do you think the doctor pushed this on your DH or do you think your DH was OK with it? Why would anyone, who is benefitting from the meds, want to 'cut back' on their meds?
I agree too, as much as we might not agree on the memory/forgetfulness issue, there is a lot of compensating being done that we don't talk about, aren't getting credit for, an is not seen by anyone here. That, to me, is part of being married...but the truth of the matter is, there is a lot more to compensate for and 'accept' when you're living with someone who has ADHD...and most definitely someone who is untreated. I'm not here to ask for kudos for any of that, nor do I want my husband to feel bad about it or feel like a burden or like he makes my life harder...but there are some of us here to are TRULY trying to give the kind of acceptance our spouses so desperately need...and only want to be met in the middle.
I have been trying to figure that out
by Aspen - 01/20/2012 - 20:25
I am going to start a post on the subject and hopefully get some help!
Stevie Wonder driving a car
by MagicSandwich - 02/14/2012 - 13:49
Yes oh my!
Has there been a documented incident when Stevie Wonder got into a car and insisted to his family and to the press that he was totally able to drive? Nope. Try saying yes to that absurd scenario and you'll have an idea of what it's like dealing with ADHD reckless entitlement and bravado. The equally frustrating inverse of this situation - having to spoonfeed a capable person - can crop up at any time. Either way, the non-ADHD person (or better controlled ADHD person) is told they are either expecting too much or too little.
Le'Magic
The memory aids
by YYZ - 01/19/2012 - 12:16
I have survived by these for years, especially after Outlook went mobile :) The issue on that particular day was walking in the door and getting my Arse jumped. I have been much better since Adderall came to know me and I know it will take years of remembering "Most of the time" to change the perception of forgetting "Most of the time". I totally get that. The thing to me is I would never jump my DW for forgetting something, let alone launch an attack as she walks in the door. This was what set me off, which is not that easy to do anyway. I would have acknowledged what I forgot and gone right back to get it.
We seem to be doing better for the most part and my example was a pretty rare one. My DW has anger issues to work on and I have my obvious ADD Oblivion to work on. It has just been a learning process for me to adjust my reactions to many visual and verbal cues I never saw before. Anger is not something I deal with well anymore.
I definitely know it is never 50/50, but I try to do as much as I can and always have. Being more aware has helped me help my DW in more timely ways and I keep working on it :)
I read about the "As Needed" plan for us ADDer's and I don't think it would work for me. When I wake up in the morning I know I am functioning sub-par and I hate feeling like I used too. Second, for me, anything but a strict regiment would me to be inconsistent taking my meds on the days I need to take them. Even now, If I get working on a project I can easily miss my regular scheduled time and end up taking it late.
I forget (I am the non-ADHD
by SherriW13 - 01/19/2012 - 13:05
I forget (I am the non-ADHD spouse) A LOT...a LOT of the time. It has NOTHING to do with my commitment to my husband or marriage. I can honestly tell you, if he ever 'fussed' at me ("how could you forget again?") it would really piss me off and make me resent him...because ANYONE who forgets ANYTHING pretty much wishes they hadn't and having to face the firing squad because of it is just wrong. Forget the kids at school? SURE, you deserve to be bitched at. Forget the dry cleaning? Shit happens. All marriages should be give and take...and if you have someone in the marriage who simply has a forgetful nature (ADHD or not) then why not compensate a little?
I know I don't know all of the details...and if you need to feel you can rely on him to not 'forget' in order to feel appreciated and loved, then so be it. But speaking from my own personal experience (and granted, 'forgetfulness' is NOT a problem in my marriage...although it is a problem for my husband on his job sometimes) and being someone who has always been forgetful, I really don't want to be treated like a child because of it. If I could help it, I would. I make lists and forget them. It really isn't as easy as you would make it seem.
...to clarify...I usually do not forget IMPORTANT things...just annoying, daily things that cause me twice the work.
Maybe it has to do with the type of ADD
by Aspen - 01/19/2012 - 13:43
My husband is primarily inattentive....no hyperactivity....so no bad impulsiveness, can hold a job, is self aware as to his ADD and taking steps to correct them.......etc
Our major issue is that he forgets things ALL the time. Big things, little things, important things, unimportant things...pretty sure this is what you get when you are inattentive. Forgot to pick up butter at the store....no biggie normally. Called him on his way home because I need butter for the potatoes for the dinner party for 12 I am home cooking for.......and he forgets it. It becomes a much bigger deal to me.
Annoying, daily things I really don't care unless he has already forgotten a myriad of really important and unimportant things so that I have no patience at all left.
if you have someone in the marriage who simply has a forgetful nature (ADHD or not) then why not compensate a little?
Oh I totally agree, but where I think my hang up comes is in "a little". I think you must have no idea the compensations having a forgetful mate can cause or you wouldn't say that. The problem is when you are compensating, and they are compensating, and they have a coach, and they have a smart phone, and you try to twist yourself into whatever pretzel they next think is going to help them remember.......patience wears thin.
and being someone who has always been forgetful, I really don't want to be treated like a child because of it.
I wouldn't either, but then the solution is to do your best to remember, right? Now you say you don't forget important things so you are doing something to remember the most important things. That is what all people with a forgetful mate want....confidence that when it is important it will be remembered.
We were probably around 80-90% before the 'as needed' meds and now we are probably 70-75% for things regardless of importance (assuming some effort is being made by him to remember or we are at 0-10%) less obviously if we are talking about remembering on first request. That percentage is too far below my comfort zone, so something has to be done.
If I could help it, I would.
I agree and I don't. In your situation, you are helping it so that you don't forget things that are important. I think everyone can 'help it' to that extent though granted I can see how it would harder for a person with ADD who has no natural hierarchy structure in his/her brain.
Beyond that level of memory that we all need to have......we are all going to be on a spectrum. I have a fabulous memory usually, but I don't expect the whole world to have one too. Maybe having a good one, I just have less natural empathy for ppl without as I can't really identify with their experience.
If anyone yelled at me for forgetting something unimportant I would be really upset. If they were yelling cause I just screwed up their whole day, I hope that I would have more sense than to say "Well I did it because this type of conversation with you is so much fun"
I don't know why, I just do
by SherriW13 - 01/19/2012 - 15:39
I don't know why, I just do not forget important things. I rarely forget anything that has to do with the kids, but I have taken my son to school and realized when I got there that I had forgotten to give him his seizure meds. Back home with him I go! I recently thought I had paid the water bill, was certain I remembered doing that...online. I hadn't. Thankfully they just hung a reminder on our door. Does it happen every month? No, that was the first time in 10 years, but it still makes me angry with myself and worry what I will forget next that might cost us more than a friendly reminder. My husband found the reminder...handed it to me...and said nothing. No anger. No lecture. Just "I found this on the door" and then off to the next subject. Maybe he has faith in me...maybe it is his ADHD 'nothing is urgent' attitude...who knows? All I know is that I forget to mail cell phones back, I forget water bills, I forget to make bank deposits, I forget to get my books before school starts, I forget to send lunch money with my daughter (thankfully the lunch ladies know I am good for it, by now). I forget to buy that one vital ingredient for the dinner I planned on making and have to make something completely different (or make yet another trip to the store for the forgotten item). My DH is wonderful about picking up stuff for me on his way home, but I don't like to ask because he DOES have impulse control issues and sending him to the store for a gallon of milk would end up costing us $40. I KNOW this is a weakness for him, so I do not put him in that situation unless I am desperate and we have the extra money I know it'll cost us for him to run the errand for me. If you KNOW your DH is not the best at remembering the butter, then I don't see the harm in running to the store for it yourself. Just like I know there is a 90% chance that my DH will overspend if I ask him to pick up something for me, you know there is a ??% chance your DH will forget if you ask. I know it seems awfully unfair...but I would like to think my marriage is far more significant than him being pissed at me because I forgot his cigarettes. (the most common forgotten item...since I do NOT buy them with any regularity...and I forget them probably 50% of the time he asks. He graciously gets up, puts on his shoes, and runs to the store to get them himself...usually only saying "that's Ok honey, no big deal" when I say "I'm sorry, I forgot your cigarettes") He has been known to run all the way back to our house to get my camera...because I inevitably forget it almost every holiday...short of hanging it on my neck, I've tried everything to remember it.
I see your point...there is no point in having a marriage if we cannot rely on our spouses for ANYTHING, but I just feel if there are ways to compensate, even if it means you give 70% and he gives 30% on an issue such as this, then to me it is worth it. I am so very thankful, for all of his faults, that he does not hold my forgetfulness against me. Ever.
I don't know....
by Aspen - 01/19/2012 - 16:09
he doesn't do a lot of other things that get me pissed at him, so maybe this is just my thing LOL I mean if he were treating me badly or acting like a bully/@hole/etc I would have bigger fish to fry.
It had almost become a non issue with the meds which is probably why I am no longer mentally prepared for some of his forgetfulness. I guess if I mull it over, he is better with important things than unimportant things, but then I consider a lot of the things that you list as fairly important. I consider things like invoicing for work correctly, making the deposits if he is the one in the city with our branch, and dropping off a bill if he agreed to take it 'on his way out' to all be fairly important things.
I guess we do really all have different levels of importance and that sometimes there isn't a right and wrong with it. Maybe I just need to relax some of my perfectionism in this area...again maybe I am just not fully empathetic to this issue never having had it.
Before we had a diagnosis and he was just being in general unreliable with things he agreed to, I had tried to take everything really important on for myself but this does cause me a lot of resentment. Once he got diagnosed (I originally typed that as 'once we got diagnosed' which really is how this type of thing goes...but I fixed it for clarity) and really finally had sufficient treatment, he was mostly reliable again, so I dropped my guard. With the 'as needed' meds, neither of us has found any traction with how to get a handle on the situation just yet.
Regardless....I think if you make a mistake and your mate gets frustrated....which happens to us all.... the mature thing to do is own up and apologize and bite your tongue when you are tempted to get frustrated back when you caused the situation in the first place.
My husband is like yours in that he never gets angry and frustrated with me when it is me forgetting something or making the mistake. I appreciate it and I tell him so, and he just laughs and says of course he is sympathetic as I do it to him less than a 1/10 of when he does it to me.
I cannot tell you how many
by SherriW13 - 01/19/2012 - 12:56
I cannot tell you how many times my husband has asked me to pick him up something (usually begins by me ASKING him if he wants something) and I will be 2 minutes from the house and realize I forgot...and off to the convenience store up the road, paying more and pissed at myself. Today I had only 3 things to get at the grocery store...was going to be quick, in and out...dog & cat food, stuff for salads, and lemons. I had thought about the lemons for 2 days. I read that putting lemons in water was good for your liver, metabolism, and helps with weight loss. So excited to get some lemons. Forgot the lemons.
Thank God that my husband RARELY gets mad at me for forgetting, because 3 times out of 10 I am already home before I remember that I forgot. LOL He, with ADHD, NEVER forgets.
It's Normal to forget :)
by YYZ - 01/19/2012 - 13:09
Shopping without a list is Bad... Grocery stores make a living at distracting you into everything other than what you came for. Then they get you twice when you go back for what you missed ;)
That's too bad...
by YYZ - 01/06/2012 - 07:56
Sure... If you take your Adderall too late you will have trouble going to sleep. I was never a big drinker, but I found after I started my Adderall treatment that I did not want very much to drink because it Un-did my Adderall and I did not want to go back to feeling that way. I like feeling sharp and clear headed. As far as a schedule goes, I do Much better on a schedule of routine. I can adapt on days where things are out of the ordinardary way better than in the past, Un-medicated I was no fun to deal with on days not governed by a strict repetitive routine. It sounds like the Adderall could work for him, if he would give it a chance, but he also needs to understand his condition too.
i hope things improve for you...
when he literally doesn't see what is actually happening
by MagicSandwich - 01/07/2012 - 11:51
But what’s even more frightening to me, as I have often thought the same thing about videotaping what actually happens, is that he won’t see what’s happening on the video in the same manner that he won’t see what’s happening in real life. You know?
I'm always fascinated by these comments
by Sueann - 01/05/2012 - 13:52
I don't have the problems with overspending, infidelity, etc. that so many on here describe. But I find the advice to not worry about what your spouse is doing impossible to follow. Some examples:
He has an appointment with his therapist today. He could not remember the time or find his card, so he used GAS I PAID FOR to drive down to the office to check the time. While he did that, he left the dog on the line outside and I had to go through a very scary part of the house, where I have fallen in the past, in my pajamas to let him in.
I have had to throw out things because he left then on the floor to get stepped on and broken. I am mobility-impaired and always afraid of falling in this pit of a house.
He has no job. I am supporting us both with what is meant to be a part time job. Almost all of Melissa's suggestions cost at least some money, and we don't have it.
So how am I supposed to just skip through life when my house is not safe, or heated, and I have to do so many things that are physically difficult for me? How do I NOT let his problems affect me?
How do I not let it affect me?
by MagicSandwich - 01/07/2012 - 11:59
This is where Melissa and other ADHD advisors just don't get it. Being around unsafe people makes you unsafe. Period.
There is no way a rational person can ignore the antics of an unsafe spouse who is engaging in doomed financial practices, unsafe driving, pack-rat sloppy living and/or devious sexual liaisons that could very well bring a disease into the marriage bed.
Safety issues are paramount
by arwen - 01/09/2012 - 13:12
As a non-professional ADHD advisor of a sort, I take exception to your claim. I most definitely "get it", and so do many many other ADHD advisors.
Let's be honest, OK? -- life is *never* safe. Ever. By yourself, or with others. Each of us does unsafe things from time to time, without meaning to, without realizing. Even if *you* behave perfectly safely, there is no guarantee that you will not be harmed by some natural event that you cannot predict or escape. All you can do is try to mitigate the danger to whatever degree may be possible.
However, I have no argument with the statement that being around unsafe people makes you *even less* safe. And this is a danger that can and should be mitigated.
Safety issues were certainly the biggest concern I've had with my ADHD spouse. Driving, tools, leaving hazards on the floors, supervising children, were all areas where my spouse had real safety problems.
So we tackled them first. Before the finances (since his problems were not bad enough to make us unsafe). Before the messy habits (that didn't create safety hazards). Before the mundane chores (that didn't directly affect safety). I *never* let a safety issue go by without a talk with my spouse. We dealt with them quickly, strongly, and persistently. No excuses, no exceptions. However, when I thought that something my husband was doing might result in a *minor* injury, I didn't talk about it until after he was done -- so that he could suffer any "natural consequences" that occurred, as they often did. This way, I also underscored his experience, instead of only preaching. It helped. With the driving, I simply forbade our kids to ride with him until he could drive safely -- this was so disturbing to him that it focused his attention wonderfully on the problem.
My husband (once on meds and counseling) trained himself to drive totally differently. He is now probably a safer driver than I am, which is saying a lot. He trained himself to the habit of never walking away from tools until they were put away (at least, while we had young kids in the house -- once they got older, he relaxed a little, now occasionally leaves screwdrivers and pliers and hammers around -- but has kept the rigid training about power tools). We rearranged his supervision responsibilities to make it easier for him to improve, and to reduce the chance for something really bad to happen. And so on.
I don't think anybody is advocating that one should ignore unsafe practices. On the other hand, not *every* behavior of an ADHDer is an "unsafe" one, some are merely annoying. *These* behaviors are the candidates for being ignored.
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
Nobody here ever claimed life
by MagicSandwich - 02/14/2012 - 14:01
Nobody here ever claimed life was 100% safe. But there have been many suggestions in this blog that the non-adhd spouse must at least try to accommodate the unsafeness of the ADHD-er. There seems never to be any sliding scale about this. Having a spouse with mobility issues means never ever ever leaving scraps of stuff on the floor. You know?
Almost done
by sheila195 - 01/05/2012 - 18:42
I have been reading this site for a while and every time I read it, I cry because I don't feel as alone. I see all these people struggling. My husband has been diagnosed with ADHD for 10 years now and it wasn't until this summer that I realized how large an effect it has on me. I have given up my dreams and plans to be with him. He has been out of work for 5 years and we have two kids. So I went back to work to support us financially. I believe I have finally let go of the resentment I felt towards him for not being able to provide for our family when our kids were newborns but I am still waiting for him to get some sort goal. I constantly am told how much he does and I feel like I do as much if not more. I am so lost and I have no more energy to fight. I just shut down now and try to get the strength to keep battling this God damn disease or genetic disposition or whatever it is but it is hard. I know my husband is a good man and everyone loves him. I just can't do it all anymore. I wish so badly he would read the ADHD effect on marriage but no matter how many times I have asked, other things become priority. I feel selfish all the time and like a bad person because I want to be with the man I married. The one who loved to be with me and around me. I am on this site because I asked him to do something with me alone (without friend, booze, etc) and he told me he thinks we should do less stuff together and not talk so much. I feel so alone and yet maybe he is right. Maybe we should talk less. The problem is I never wanted to be with someone who didn't like/enjoy being with me and now I think he is at the point that I piss him off all the time. I was very angry, I know that is my fault. I must go now, everyone is home.
me too
by Xwifey - 01/19/2012 - 21:59
Im ready to leave him, he also asks for his space, it just ridiculous because he has more time away from me than i do from him. My husband read the book and then was on denial of his ADHD. Medication and marriage therapy help but doesnt cure it. Their brain is wired differently. I think you should take care of yourself so you can take care of your kids. you are not alone *hugs*
hopeless
by Xwifey - 01/19/2012 - 21:43
Husband has adhd and anger problems. All these worked only when we were in weekly therapy. I isolated myself from my friends, and people that know me. Its really hard to keep my cool when i have this angry, disrespectful, evil, person shouting at me. I only have 18 month married and Im ready to dump him. yes dump him, im so tired, my anxiety is high, and dont want to be around him when he is at home. Im scared of his temper tantrum. We are seeing a new therapist for insurance reasons and this is it! I have a lot of resentments.
from my perspective I say..
by LeeL - 02/05/2012 - 15:06
Get out NOW!!! You may be able to get it annulled.
Day dreaming/ trouble attending to conversations
by readingteacher - 01/29/2012 - 11:07
I really like Melissa strategies for the non adhd spouse to use when they are frustrated. I'm wondering if anyone can give any tip for the following scenario.
I take36 mg of concerta at 6am in the morning before I go to work. When I come home from work it is very hard for me to conversations with my partner because the medicine is completely worn off. The first hour it wears off, I'm very loopy and have trouble attending to oral conversation and will often daydream and miss pieces of conversations. There are others times during the day when I find it very hard to attend such as if I haven't eaten enough protein, am super stressed, or if I'm in the car. It's also really hard to understand my partner when she talks fast. When I miss what she is saying I often will ask my partner to repeat what she just said or slow down. She often gets annoyed because:1. it is hard for her to feel connected to me when she feels I can't attend to what she is saying, 2. she doesn't like repeating a story because its no fun to tell it the 2nd time, 3. sometimes she feels like "I just want to have a normal conversation where I can tell a story and have you listen. It frustrating for me to tell you a story, have you miss it and have to repeat it"
I'm going to talk to my doctor and see if he can prescribe a small dose of concerta which may help.
I'm not sure of what I should do if I'm in a state where I REALLY CAN'T attend ( such as a night when the medicine is wearing off )
Should I just try to be alone at this time? Should I just avoid my talking to my when partner the medication is wearing off? " Honey it is going to be hard for me to attend right now, so maybe you should tell me this story at another time?"
What should I do when I "zone out" when she is talking to me? She gets frustrated and annoyed when ask to repeat herself or tell the story over; so should I just jump in and try figure out what happened? Is it feasible to ask have the add partner repeat a story that the add spouse missed from daydreaming? I feel like this reasonable, but if the non add partner feels like its annoying.... so maybe it's not reasonable?
I've also asked my partner to make sure I'm attending before she starts talking, and she said she doesn't want to do this because she doesn't want to treat me like a child. I've also explained that I need for her to talk slow. She's often said that it is not fair for her to have to change what she is naturally doing sand wants to have a conversation without analyzing everything. In other words " I don't want to put on a big show, just so I can talk to you?" Are these reasonable requests? What exactly is a reasonable role for the non add partner to play
I've explained that I really want to hear your stories sometimes I just can't attend to them and need you to repeat them. My partner has tried to be patient but ultimately feels so annoyed when I tune out when she is speaking and am completely unaware of what just happened. Is it even possible for partner to learn to be patient when I miss things because of daydreaming? If she finds this so annoying she can't even repeat herself can she learns skills to be more patient or is this one of those things where "you are patient or you are not"
Don't get me wrong, my partner is not a villian, and I think it is completely natural to feel frustrated when you are not being heard. After a tough day at work it is hard to be patient.
I'd love to hear people comments for strategies on what do do when the add partner day dreams when the non add partner is talking? What are reasonable strategies both partners can implement?
sounds reasonable to me
by gardener447 - 01/30/2012 - 07:09
Hi,
You wrote: I've also asked my partner to make sure I'm attending before she starts talking, and she said she doesn't want to do this because she doesn't want to treat me like a child. Sounds like she'd also like to treat you like someone without ADHD. If you need X so she can get Y, the refusal to do it is just not accepting reality. If you're willing to put more effort in paying attention, once you know she needs it, then she ought to be able to come halfway. And: or is this one of those things where "you are patient or you are not". She can learn to be more patient, but it sounds like she'd rather not. I have to continually remind myself not to get frustrated when a 60 second conversation goes off the rails, and slow down and repeat. But of course it's possible. When I want maximum attention (notice I didn't say full :) ) I touch him, say "honey?" wait until he changes gears, be concise, ask for confirmation of what he heard and that works so much better than just being starting "cold" and rattling away like I might while talking to my kids or friends. I would really encourage you to find a way to spend time with your wife when you are medicated, instead of saving the down time for her. My guy won't take anything, so I just have to catch him when he's well-rested and hungry. He'll pay attention when he thinks there might be dinner in it for him. ;) She might want to learn to better read the cues you give off when you've tuned out... One question for you, though. When you become aware she wants/needs you to "attend" do you stop any other activities that may be going on? Turn off TV (NOT just mute), put down smart phone, turn away from computer, etc? You might think, since you are "aware" for a moment that she's talking to you, that you can resist refocusing on those things, but you really can't. Also, take her hand or touch her arm while she's talking, if she isn't doing that with you. The physical can help you connect better in your brain, too. Another idea for staying "connected" when the lack of medication is present... DO something together that you both enjoy. A game? A home improvement project? The dishes? If you are both engaged in a cut-throat game of Yahtzee, YOU will be less likely to drift off, the conversation will tend to be about "fun" topics, you might even laugh and flirt while you trash-talk your opponent. That can feel very good, even if you really can't pay attention to the story of the bad day at the office. And lastly, does your wife know that men, in general, without ADHD, are bored to tears with most of our stories? :) Best wishes.
This was a great
by readingteacher - 01/31/2012 - 22:33
This was a great response! Thanks so much I really appreciate it!
Men are bored by women's
by MagicSandwich - 02/14/2012 - 13:38
Men are bored by women's stories? WHAT?
The "Everybody Loves Raymond" type of sexist sentiment is unnecessary here.
A couple of things; 1) It
by Gary Ares - 02/01/2012 - 21:22
A couple of things;
1) It would probably be a great idea if our spouses, along with us ADHD'ers, understood how the mind and brain work. Not like a PhD, but at a 101 level. I have spent a ton of time over the past few months completely mesmerized by what I've learned and now understand about myself.
2) Our original brain (sometimes called the "lizard brain) is finely tuned to threats, and it doesn't take too much at all for the alarm to go off! Oh, that triggers what's called the "fight or flight" response.
3) If the threat alarm goes off, the front part of the brain becomes much less effective at important tasks like reasoning and short term ("working) memory.
There's so much more, but I'm not trained in this area, but just a neophyte, so I'll stop here. I'd recommend for anyone who wants to learn more details on the brain and the ADD/ADHD mind, there are plenty of excellent videos, including those by the expert owners of this site, on the web.
I'm battling to
by L McGeer - 02/02/2012 - 04:57
I'm battling to differentiate between ADHD symptoms in a person & the persons manipulative traits. Is manipulation automatic if you have ADHD?
Differentiating is easier if you have knowledge on your side
by Gary Ares - 02/03/2012 - 20:19
Hello,
Being ADHD, and knowledgeable on the disorder, brain-mind functioning, AND relationships, I'd definitely recommend learning. I'm not trained in this area, but have done a huge amount of reading authored by Doctors, PhDs, and other accredited health care professionals.
I can say there are people in my life who are as honest as the day is long, but sometimes seem to make stuff up as they go along. Another annoyance is the rationalizing and excuses to absolve anyone or anything that appears to need one. Nothing terrible, mind you, but disconcerting.
OK, now, manipulation is NOT automatic in anyone, but if the person was "gifted" in this area they'd be a 6 or better on a 1-10 scale of ADHD. Really, I'll go back to knowledge as the best fog-clearing, and BS meter around. I can spot a guilt trip, or any type of manipulation a mile away. Things like using words including "should", "always", "never" might be good tip-offs. Using the word "you" at the beginning of a statement can be a signal as well (verbal finger pointing). Yelling or bullying of ANY kind is an immediate buzzer for me. Being a guy, it's the crying that get me all kerfugled.
Seriously, the more you understand the emotional workings of people, the mind, and relationships the better you are in any interactive communication. My local library is fantastic, because I can get electronic info as well as a huge selection of books online. It's a good investment in your time, because you have the knowledge and skills for the rest of your life.
All the best.
The Three Stooges
by gardener447 - 02/03/2012 - 20:53
My guy has developed three major "coping" strategies for times when his ADD causes him to, in his opinion or someone else's, "mess up". I call them the Three Stooges: Deny, Deflect and Distort. As in "I didn't do that", "it's actually you", and "You took it wrong". These are all things he does so he doesn't feel like crap. He is still in denial about ADD... so he's spent 50+ years wondering why he just can't keep it all together as "easily" as other people. In order to not feel like he's failing, he denies, deflects and distorts. For years I thought I was crazy.... except I wasn't crazy with anybody else. Anyway. I guess I could characterize the use of these strategies as "manipulating" because he was always trying to shift the blame or even shift reality. I have never felt like he was intentionally manipulating me... but another personality type might well do so. I would have to say manipulation isn't a feature of ADD... but it could be a crappy coping mechanism for someone with ADD.
Yup
by SherriW13 - 02/04/2012 - 10:30
Just the other day I got an apology that went something like this:
"I am sorry for talking to you that way, I shouldn't have...but you shouldn't have gone on and on about it..it just makes me furious...but I shouldn't have talked to you that way". Yes, it is my fault that you told me you were a "grown man" and would do whatever you wanted, when you wanted...(inserting the f-word every other word...in front of our daughter!!) when I found out he was considering trading his truck (mechanically sound, almost paid off...we owe $500 on it) to my nephew for his truck (an older diesel, major mechanical issues, nephew owes $3000 on it). DH's truck is several years newer too. Yes, when I try to thwart his latest attempt to screw us financially...then I deserve to be talked to like a dog. Just once in my effin life I would like for him to say "I shouldn't have said that" and leave off the "but". I started to say something, but I just didn't, I used to...not worth it anymore. All I could muster was "OK" I am sure if I would have said "your reaction is 100% your responsibility, and has nothing to do with anything I do or say...so stop adding the 'but' to it" he would accuse me of 'wanting to fight' or he would scream "just forget it!" and be mad all over again. Not that he doesn't understand that it is true, that his reaction was not my fault...just makes him feel better to make it about ME objecting to his 'plans' (over and over again...in his words...I said it twice "we cannot afford for you to trade...we do not know what is wrong with his truck and we know yours is dependable and sound").
Sherri
by NJTWINMOM - 02/04/2012 - 11:10
Can't say we've had THAT issue, but O M G .....clearly, the lame ass, argument inducing apology is a "classic ADHD" apology (if one can even call it that).
Been there....lived through it....own several T Shirts by the way.
Sherri, Most of our
by newfdogswife - 02/05/2012 - 07:14
Sherri,
Most of our arguments were very similiar. Immediate rebellion including yelling and screaming and sometimes throwing things when I didn't go along with his plan or fantasy idea. It wasn't until we researched ADHD that we discovered that the brain could sometimes react to situations like that of a teenager. Boy, what an eye-opener that was. Our relationship had truly turned into an adult/child relationship. The reality of learning this gave me almost instant peace and stress reduction but unfortunately hit my husband like a ton of bricks. We found out what a major hurdle was in our relationship and he knew he could no longer use the coping mechanisims he had used in the past. The reality of having to "grow up" is still a struggle for him and probably always will be. I just pray for him daily that he makes it without too much difficulty.
I'll third that
by NJTWINMOM - 02/05/2012 - 07:54
Same here to all of it.
Also, I am sure you have read, as I have, that they, the ADHD person, subconsciously "liked" the arguing effect, as it gave off the dopamine their brains lacked. I wonder if THAT is one of the main reasons behind it. Who would choose all that arguing?
endless apologies
by beensolong - 02/06/2012 - 22:09
this is so familiar to me-even tho' he's an intelligent person I think I'm realizing that doesn't mean -able to reason or be reasonable. Do we give up on trying to reason in the moment and bring it up later when they're in a happy mode again or just give up on reason? Sometimes it's worked to even say "let's ask someone elses opinion". This has made me realize that sometimes he really is convinced that he's reasoning well-sometimes he backs off right away because he knows he's just being an 'you know what' and trying to start a fight.Apologies mean nothing to me anymore either-just does it because he doesn't want me to be angry anymore-if I don't instantly forgive him he's angry all over again.I'm new to this website & I'm finding so much comfort in everyone's story
de`ja vue!
by beensolong - 02/06/2012 - 22:47
after 500 million"I'm sorries" and nothing changing i went in search of the true meaning of an apology-when you repent for something-not just saying it & expecting anything back but saying specifically what you are sorry for & making amends-actually doing something that shows how sorry you are. Maybe if that happened, they wouldn't forget over & over & over. But no, that wouldn't work either because he rarely sees how he actually has behaved. I'm going to try recording conversations with consent! I'm so comforted by your story! Thank-you!
Agree to ALL THREE
by NJTWINMOM - 02/04/2012 - 11:05
My husband, before Adderall was the Almighty KING of all three DENY...DEFLECT and DISTORT!!!!.....Those definately were his way of life!!!!
Three Stooges
by lynnie70 - 02/06/2012 - 10:44
Gardener, how did you get past thinking you were the crazy one? I am finally realizing (through infinite reading) that HIS reality did not really happen physically -- only in his mind. However, he is a PhD, and can outmaneuver me to the point that I think I am just a crazy lunatic. In front of counselors, they have told me my complaints seem so trivial. He can say and do all the correct things in front of a person he wants to impress, but tells me he lives in a fog, can't remember things that are important to me, etc. We can have an agreement after talking for HOURS, and the follow week, he will bring it up again, with his blinders on, like it is a completely new subject, seemingly oblivious to the fact that we had already reached agreement! Once, we made a contract, he signed it, volunteered that he would clean a sink or bath fixture when he failed, but he told me his counselor said he should never do anything like that -- it was too demeaning. Funny thing, he typed up the terms, but added (small print) and EXPIRATION DATE at the bottom without mentioning it. He can't remember much of anything unless he senses that I don't remember all the details, then suddenly he remembers EVERYTHING about the conversation, all details, and they are all skewed toward him having done/said everything right. And he will fight to the death defending his stance, even if I start to remember the real details as the conversation continues. I'm so tired of counselors saying, "Well, everyone has their side of the story." As if anything made up on the spur of the moment is obviously just as relevant as the FACTS. I'm so tired....
I am wondering the answer to
by wifeatmywe - 02/02/2012 - 20:40
I am wondering the answer to that question too! My husband and I have recently read Melissa's book. I felt like I was reading a novel about our marriage. He thought there were only a few similarities, yet has decided to see a doctor in a few weeks because he thinks either he might be depressed and/or suffering from anxiety because of how I make him feel or possibly he's suffering from ADD. One thing he took from the book is setting boundaries and told me it's something he believes needs to do. I completely understand the need for boundaries. I learned their value through a year's worth of counseling for myself (my counselor suggested ADHD might be a problem in our marriage). One boundary I've set for myself recently is that I'm going to consistently initiate mirroring conversations with my husband so I can understand exactly what he means to say. Just about every conversation results in one of us misperceiving what the other intends to say. So, today at the end of a tense 5 minute conversation that mostly consisted of me asking for clarification of something he said that bothered me (because he did something that I've consistently asked him to stop doing), he got angry that he was having to explain himself, said he couldn't talk to me anymore to save himself, and left slamming the door behind him. When he came home later he didn't breathe a word of it. When I asked him about when we could talk about what happened, he said he figured "that" conversation would take hours and we would probably end up talking about it tomorrow. I've told him how frustrating is for me when he says he will "probably" do something and how is frustrating when we don't set a time to have a discussion about something that needs to be discussed. I'm so tired of feeling stuck in the trap of our inability to communicate effectively...and all the other feelings that so many people have posted on this site. I can't tell if he's being manipulative or if he truly doesn't realize what he's doing. I've let go of anger from the past because I truly think there's some condition at play, but I find I'm trying to deal with anger that creeps up from daily interactions. I feel like we need a diagnosis or the ruling out of one before I can move forward. The thought of having another conversation with him about anything is extremely unsettling.
Start with Men are from Mars-Women are from Venus
by Gary Ares - 02/03/2012 - 20:50
What came to my mind while reading your post were 2 books about male-female communications and relating; the first is "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" by John Gray, and "He said - She Said", by Lillian Glass (may be hard to find). One very important thing I took away from Gray's very popular book was that men relate completely different than women (my layman's view). I think of women like waves of emotion, where as men are like a piston action of push-pull.
I can remember resisting any kind of emotional squabbles when my ADHD was flaming, because I'd approach it logically, and she would approach it very differently from her feelings. I recall one long and drawn-out discussion that ended when she said "it's not just that, it's everything!!!" Sorry to say, I just started laughing and did not stop for awhile. I can also state that Gray's idea of gaining or losing points was true, because I completely emptied my points bank account that day.
One thing I have learned is the importance of consequences. I let people know, ADHD or not, well in advance, what will occur if a particular behavior continues, or a commitment not kept, so if the time comes when the feces hits the fan, my follow through with actions can not be a surprise. Works well for me, and gives the other party an option to opt in or out.
Maybe doing some reading of related books or blogs could be very beneficial?
Take care & breath deep.
Been there done that and too tired to keep searching
by LeeL - 02/05/2012 - 15:02
These are nice suggestions, however I am so far down the road with this I have given up trying. I have been battling my own issues--the thing is that because I have had depression issues in the past, everywhere you look and everyone you talk to seems to assume I am the one with the problems. I have ALWAYS taken care of my self physically, emotionally, consciously and by instinct. When professional help is needed, I hire it use it follow the medication protocols to the letter and keep my caregivers informed about everything. My husband has deep anger issues is stubborn and thinks that I am the one with the problems. He may be ADD, may also have a borderline personality disorder--but will not get a diagnoses. We have been through no less than 8 joint counselors and he has been through several individual ones for very short periods of time. They are all "Jerks", everyone he encounters is a "jerk". He lost several jobs because of this and even "retired" without telling me 18 months ago (he is 68) so that he could justify not working. Well that's great but we have a 10 year old daughter who needs support and I was forced to go on disability because of my depression before she was born. I have done everything I can think of to help myself get out of this hole and I keep getting pushed back in. We have zero friends--no family to rely on and my friends were alienated years ago by his attitude. I cant think straight when he is around. He finally realized that we need an income (don't tell us about financial counseling, he WAS a financial something or other and gets indignant at the suggestion). I even left once to go to a shelter because I was scared for our daughter (then three) because I could not get through to him. He punished me by hiring a private detective who pounded on the door of our home the evening I moved back (he convinced relatives to coax me home) who scared us and then served me with divorce papers from the Supreme Court. Next Five cops pounded on the door and demanded that I leave (he house was owned by MY mother) and they ripped my daughter out of my arms. I have worried for years about the impact this would have on her subconscious. Being on disability I could only hope for help from "legal aid" and that was a nightmare of epic proportions to the tenth magnitude. To start they only handled cased from Family court...long story short, I lost 30 lbs in a month and he used up our daughter's inheritance from his recently deceased mother to teach me a lesson. To hear him re tell this tale--or any other for that matter You would think that it was all my fault ---he reweaves and back-peddles to a dizzying extent. I only took him back for our daughter's sake and on the promise that he would get anger under control. Well it worked for a while because he wanted to be together--but I have nothing but disgust for him. The house is a mess because everything I do he tears down or changes, I am Sisyphus pushing the rock up a hill that he kicks back down and I am running out of steam. I have not the motivation to do do anything anymore--I am in despair because of this and feeling like a failure to my daughter and myself. I have searched the earth for help and support and I have found NONE. I cannot do more without support-- aside from my therapist and psychiatrist I would have given up before now. Believe me I have reasons. Here is one that compounded the situation...
It is a kicker--Last year in a effort to help pull myself up a bit during the holidays, I promised my mother that I would take her, our daughter, niece and husband's granddaughter to a drive through local "Christmas Lights in the park". We even started singing. We got to the pavilion for hot chocolate and crafts. I dropped everyone off and parked. When I went in I started looking around as I looked for my family. I saw a wallet left on a table and looked to see if there was an ID and proceeded to look for this person. A few feet away, as I caught up with my family a cop came up and asked me if I found a wallet. I happily said yes and gave it to him--and lost my first amendment rights in the process. He proceeded to trick me into a search and arrested me, handcuffed me put me in a police car drove to the end of the park put me in a paddy wagon chained my leg to the floor drove to a station booked me with my leg still chained to the floor fingerprinted me etc--at court I was also slapped with a restraining order--by someone who I thought I was doing a good deed for-- the courts compounded the situation by losing my file and rescheduling the case for four months in a row. I am 53, never had a ticket, smoked, drank, or got into trouble. I respected my parents, went to church always tried to do the best for family and guess what--because of this--I stayed in the house for a year. Positive thinking, fulfill your dreams? reach for the stars? pheah! I am in pain, misunderstood and isolated--Why continue to make efforts to be kind much less hope for a career and share my talents with the world? I cannot seem to make a decent judgment about anything. My motto has become NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED!
I too am at my wits end. It
by F1rewoman - 02/05/2012 - 20:17
I too am at my wits end. It doesn't get better. My husband just never gets it. To top it all off he has always blames me for everything, doesn't take any responsibility, I can't talk to him about anything because all he hears is criticism, stonewalls to no end, and tells me I don't know how to communicate. The funny thing is I am almost ready to graduate with my MA in counseling, so I think I have worked hard on my communication skills. Compare that to his just always being on the computer. I will admit we did divorce and he did change. So, instead of being with a person who is the equivalent of a 12 year old, he is now the equivalent of a 16 year old. I am supposed to be happy? I can't imagine we will stay together because in order to get along with him, you have to come to his level or else there is arguing. Unfortunately, I think my daughter has ADHD because she exhibits the same mindset i.e. forgetfulness, deer in headlights, obstinance, etc. It sure is funny that they seem to be able to do good at school or work, but once they come home the real person comes out. They steal all the fun because their insecurity seems to get in the way. Yet, the blame the other person.
My friend was dating an ADHD guy and I told her to run. She didn't believe me and know she is losing her mind every day because of his lackluster behavior.
He has ruined my dreams I had for my family. He has turned me into a person I don't want to be. He has drug me down. Frankly, I am not even sure what he is good for because he doesn't do anything. I can't count on him, he doesn't do anything for me but he sure likes to monitor what I am doing, though. I don't even have respect for him because my definition of a man is a man who can take care of business, not one who likes to be told what to do. Even if I tell him what to do, he won't do it anyway, he would rather spend the energy fighting with me on why it shouldn't be done. Then if he does do something he thinks he deserves a ticker tape parade or something.
Believe me, as an almost counselor, I have tried multiple, multiple things and I am still ready to leave him again and he can stay in this house under his pile of rubble because he doesn't pick up anything, clean anything, or even see what needs to be done.
I hear you loud and clear
by LeeL - 02/06/2012 - 13:15
Dear F1rewoman:
I swear I could have written your post word for word until it got to the earning a masters degree part. I do not know how you did it in that atmosphere. I would love to continue my education, get a job etc but I am so depressed I have all I can do to function each day. I too have tried multiple things--I would love to get a divorce or just get him out of the house for a year but I cannot afford it and he will not move out. We went that route in the past and he spent all his money getting revenge on me with shark lawyers--and I almost lost complete custody of my daughter. I feel like I am buried alive and there are no new sources of help for me, I have exhausted everything I could find in my area and on the internet. I wish to God I could send him to an anger camp if it existed.
The No-Win Situation
by rismb - 02/07/2012 - 00:34
I have been struggling beyond belief with my wife's impulsivity. When she gets upset, she just starts yelling at me and will not back down. It's even worse when I am upset at her about something and she insists that I am wrong for being upset because she did not do anything and I am just jumping to conclusions (she gets upset at me for being upset at her?!?) In the past, we agreed that when one of us was starting to feel overwhelmed during and argument (emotionally flooded), we would agree to table the discussion until one of us could calm down and we could communicate in a more peaceful way. This attempt at finding a less hostile way of arguing has failed miserably. I have flat out said, "I am getting really upset and need to stop", but she just refuses to back down. She becomes so hyper-focused on either making her point, winning the argument, or just flat out upsetting me that she doesn't even hear my plea to stop. The other night, our fight reached the point where I had to leave the room because her yelling was really starting to upset me. After getting in the shower, she followed me in and started yelling again. I finally jumped out, threw some clothes on and left the house. On my way out, she threatened that if I left, she would not follow through with some plans we had previously made for the next day (which I responded, "I don't care"). The next morning, she came into to talk about the situation and after a few minutes, the conversation took a wrong turn and I just started screaming...just totally lost it. I absolutely hate that I have turned into someone who could actually scream at another person since I have never done this with anyone...EVER. In fact, one of the reasons she said she was attracted to me was because I was so calm. I absolutely HATE feeling so out of control, but if she will not relent when I tell her that I am feeling overwhelmed, what am I supposed to do? The worst part about all of this is she now sees me as the one who yells, but when I leave the room to get away from the situation, she says that I am being rude and disrespectful by just walking away which makes her yell at me even more which in turn forces me to either yell back or leave the house. If I stay calm and leave the room, she gets upset and when I yell back, she gets upset...it's just a no-win situation and I don't know what to do because I just don't have the patients to deal with it anymore.
ADHD affects emotional regulation
by summerwine - 02/07/2012 - 12:08
You guys need to research how ADHD affects emotional regulation. Maybe if she learns that while her feelings are right for the situation her brain makes the feelings too damned strong like stronger than they should be. I can't always control it but knowing that my ADHD brain will make feel things much stronger than is warranted can help me to take a few deep breaths and try to calm down. In my family our counselor is having us work on acknowledging the emotions and working together to calm down right away. Walking away doesn't work it WIILL escalate things and make it worse. Instead its got to be Okay we are upset I see that you are upset I totally get that, lets juts sit and hugs for a minute and when we are calmed down we can talk and not yell at each other. But both of you have to be willing to do try that together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cw8jHUkHiA
http://adhdvancouver.blogspot.com/2011/03/adhd-attention-deficit-hyperac...
http://www.adhdlibrary.org/library/social-functioning-and-emotion-regula...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110505103341.htm
I have a lot of links on ADHD bookmarked!
Thank You
by LeeL - 02/11/2012 - 08:21
Dear summerwine: Thank you the the excellent links in your post. I am always searching for answers and potential help that could control the suffering in our house. After years of failed attempts to work things out we are still miserable--it feels like a puzzle where none of the pieces fit. We had another hit this week. My husband finally got on board with a doctor went through several appointments still no diagnosis therefore no treatment, I am getting more and more depressed with each passing week. Finally we were able to orchestrate a meeting between his doctor, my doctor and the two of us, only to find out upon arriving at the office the insurance will not cover this situation. I keep looking for a similar scenario to present to HIS doctor when I meet him because I need a professional description to validate this situation to convince the both of them that there is a BIG problem here and it needs treatment. He does not see a link between my depression and his anger and negativity. If you have any other links that you are willing to share I am more than willing to search them. Thanks again.
That's a very good suggestion
by rismb - 02/07/2012 - 12:37
That's a very good suggestion and I will read through your links. I just hope I can actually implement it because it gets harder and harder to stay calm when she is yelling at me. This has been going on for eight years and until about a year an a half ago, we didn't even know it was ADHD. Now that I am starting to yell back on a regular basis, she sees me as the one with the problem. If I am completely honest with myself, I HAVE changed for the worse over the past eight years. This fact alone is extremely disturbing to me.
Feeling crazy at times!
by Kisa - 02/10/2012 - 12:33
I completely agree with you, I am a very laid back easy going person who doesn't like drama and definitely hates to fight. My boyfriend is always yelling at me and the rest of the world. Like you have have changed and my friends and more importantly ME hate that fact. I was so happy to see this site, because it has reconfirmed that it's not me, and frankly it's not even him...it's just this ADHD thing that's tearing us both up. I have recently asked him to move out because I'm not sure I can keep snapping in and out of being 'okay' from this. I have become an emotional wreck and have forgotten what it means to smile and have a good time with anyone...how do you find happy again?
Why is is worth fighting for?
by rismb - 02/14/2012 - 03:36
I have to ask myself...why is this worth fighting for? Tonight, among many nights, we had another fight. This night was especially important because we had special plans with family, but like usual, those plans were again, broken, and I had to attend on my own because my wife simply refused and I did not have the ability to try to make things right (maybe it was pride, or intolerance, of simply complete and utter frustration). I have grown so bitter, so resentful, and so intolerant of her constant temperamental, rude behavior. She doesn't even understand how it makes me feel and when I try to explain, it is just greeted with more rude behavior until the point where I completely break down and yell. I HATE yelling...I DESPISE yelling, but it has finally become my norm. Life is passing me by and every day, every week, every year, every broken plan, every broken experience is just another reason why I ask myself why this is all worth it. I always envisions having a loving, passionate, and understanding relationship with my wife. I always thought we would be there for each other and no matter what, we would do our best to make things right when things were wrong; but not today. Today, I ask, why is it worth it...or should I say, what is worth fighting for...not because I don't want things to be right, but because it seems like things will never be right, at best, they will just be...well, alright.
suggestions for when the NT is the Husband?
by ellamenno - 02/14/2012 - 09:50
Hi -
Any suggestions for a non-ADHD husband who is frustrated? My husband is unbelievably stressed out. 99% of it is because of our lack of money, which is my fault. At this point I am staying at home with our 2 year old, and freelancing as much as I can ('dumping' the kids on him ONLY when I have to work and he is able to be home, otherwise we pay for a babysitter). I am currently only bringing in 1/3 of what I should be earning to cover the expenses of living in a ridiculous city and paying for private school (for just ONE kid currently).
He does go out for drinks sometimes with colleagues/friends. He doesn't do any cooking, cleaning, laundry, ironing or any other kind of housework, decluttering or anything that might be 'hired out' (we can't afford it anyway). He has no time for counseling, and my attempts at Learning Conversations for the last 8 months have failed. ("Why do we have to talk about what's WRONG? Why can't we just have a normal f*cking conversation about something in the news?")
So, although I believe i'm making personal progress (making connections and getting more work than last year) I continue feeling like a failure, and he continues to be frustrated, stressed out & seemingly disgusted with my lack of confidence and lack of income. I never know what the right thing to say is, so I just stopped saying anything.
Help?
Stressed out Non-ADDer
by YYZ - 02/14/2012 - 12:38
Sounds like you have some sort of Reverse Chore issue at your house. Going off to work is the EASY part! So you get do handle the entire household and childcare, but you are getting guilted into accepting the 24/7 job because you are only a P/T earner on top of the 24/7 F/T job??? When the spouse is Angry All the Time (Add or Non) there is not going to be a constructive conversation anyway. Who wants to talk about the Effing News?!? ;)
You seem to be doing your part X10, how about a little E for Effort on his part, instead of drinks with colleagues??? My DW asks to do with with work friends about once a month or so and I'm always supportive, because maybe she will relax for a moment. I don't do this, because I'll just worry about who might show up, or how much I should drink, or how late is too late and end up more anxiety ridden than it's worth.
YOU are a Super-Woman! Don't believe anything else :)
Bottom line...
by ellamenno - 02/14/2012 - 13:23
Aw, shucks YYZ, thanks! You're the cheerleader for us all! Huh.... y'know since I have no idea what you actually look like I now have an image of Geddy Lee in a cheerleader outfit in my head. YIKES!!!!
well, to be fair, most of the time he goes out for drinks with colleagues, it's for work. Maybe only 1 time out of 5 is actually 'just for fun.'
The bottom line is we just don't have enough money. He can't take on another job, he is already swamped. He's in Academia, so his work is not done when he comes home: it's just starting. Grading, writing, reading.... What's frustrating is I have very little time to do any kind of preparation or work for what *I* do. My daughter has a nap in the afternoon, but it's getting shorter and shorter and some days she doesn't nap at all and i get no time to myself to get anything done requiring any sort of concentration. DH has been having heart palptations, most likely due to the stress of our financial situation. He is not putting any guilt-trip on me, it's just the numbers, plain and simple.
I DO get irritated though when dinner is over and i'm wrestling the kids into the bathub, cleaning up the kitchen etc. and he's watching some dumb video online. I realize everyone needs downtime to recharge so I don't say anything, but couldn't he at least take his dinner plate to the sink? hang up his coat? not put his pants on the floor? He will spend a couple of hours 'defragmenting' and then start working. He'll be up til 1am or so. I go to bed earlier than him, so the illusion is that i get more sleep, but actually lately it's only 15-30 minutes before he comes to bed and usually i'm still awake. I've usually been cleaning, folding laundry, putting toys, crayons, paints, whatever away and preparing for the next day plus trying to do computer program training online so i can try to get a 'real' job. i've gone to take the 'evaluations' twice and failed twice because I just don't have the time to learn it. By the time the day is over, my brain is shot.
anyway - i've only got probably 40 minutes til DH2 wakes up so i gotta do something useful.
Ellamenno
Time for the "we're partners" conversation
by MelissaOrlov - 02/14/2012 - 14:36
Here are my ideas:
EVERY couple goes through this, whether or not ADHD is an issue. Here are some ideas: You are being overwhelmed with job and childcare, it sounds. Sit down with hubby, figure out what the most important tasks are, create a FAIR distribution of these tasks based upon skills and time available, then dump the rest (just ignore them). As for clearing the table and picking up his pants, these types of things are a matter of respect, so he should develop a system for making sure they get done.
Next, find some women friends with kids the same age, and start a childcare exchange. This means you take the other child for an afternoon and they take yours. This can free up an afternoon every other week (or whatever your frequency) that is really valuable time. It's probably easiest to plan this out in advance with one or two friends, rather than a large group, so that you all get reliable relief without needing to take too many kids into your house at once.
Next, you say you're earning a third of what you should be earning but also mention your computer program training. I applaud your desire to improve the family balance sheets, but it sounds as if your method isn't working. Change the time of your training from when your brain is shot (end of day) to when it's fresh (beginning of day). Consider studying for a half and hour each day before the rest of the family gets up (some authors I know write from 4-6am).
Is there anything you can cut out that will help your finances? Rent a smaller home? Refinance a mortgage while rates are low? Stay in vs. going out for dinner? I'm sure you've thought of those things, but just wanted to bring them up again...
And if you have credit card debt, leave the credit card at home and pay that off first...
interesting...
by ellamenno - 02/14/2012 - 17:41
The household tasks being a 'matter of respect' is an interesting concept to me. My husband has actually TOLD me that when I forgot to close cabinet drawers or dresser drawers or left a box of baby wipes from costco in the hallway for 3 days that he interpreted it as a deliberate action of disrespect for him. I was astonished. In my mind, I just.... forgot. I agree that it would be irritating if someone did something to deliberately disrespect me, but.... forgetting to close a drawer after washing the clothes, ironing them, folding them and then putting them into the drawer... How can that be interpreted as disrespect? like, I was ABOUT to close the drawer and then decided, 'Screw him!!! I'm NOT CLOSING THIS DRAWER!" So... It's hard to think that he's trying to disrespect me by not bringing his dish to the kitchen or leaving his pants on the floor... I thought he just forgot... and didn't want to ask him to do it because I know how defensive I used to get when I forgot stuff... but... is it really true? Is he really doing this out of disrespect? huh. that sucks.
I'm nervous about having the chore conversation because I'm thinking that adding chores to his work load will just make him get less sleep and make us more tired & alienated from each other.
I've been trying to find people to do a childcare share thing. When my 5 year old is at school I've just got my 2 year old - my friends with kids who are in school though are desperate for time to themselves too, so I haven't found anyone willing to take her. I have a neighbor who's 2 older boys go to school so she just has one 2 year old, but she's so overwhelmed with the 3 boys in general that i hate to ask her to take on another kid on days when she can have just the one. Also, I'm nervous about offering to take care of other people's kids who have 2 or more because my two plus 2 or three other kids could turn out to be really overwhelming, and I really don't want something to happen to someone else's kids on my watch.
I'll try the early morning thing - which will have to mean getting to bed before midnight, or somehow functioning on 4-5 hours of sleep!
As for cutting back on expenses... there really isn't any place to cut back. With the exception of when we are traveling, we never go out to dinner as a couple or a family. Ever. For my birthday last year, we went out for a beer, then came straight home. With babysitting it came to $50, and that really screwed up the budget for the month. That was last May. My daughter has a little friend who's parents are quite wealthy. We met for a play date a couple weeks ago and they paid for everything (they wanted to go to a restaurant and a frozen dessert place) which was very generous, and actually necessary because we just don't have the money for any of these things, but also very embarrassing. Realistically, I couldn't afford to pay our share, even though I offered to. If they had not insisted on paying, it would have been another $50 or so on the credit card that would stay there. Speaking of credit cards-we dont' use them unless we have to and until this year have paid them off each month. We're paying less on everything (Credit cards, student loans) just to stay afloat. We cut our own hair. Anything we can cook/bake/make ourselves cheaper than buying it, we'll do it. We don't buy clothes. (one of my husband's student evaluations last year actually read, "Great class... but Dr. Ellamenno really should invest in a second pair of pants." INVEST... in a SECOND pair of pants... how sad is that??) It is crazy that people with so little money are spending such a large percentage of income on private school tuition... but there it is. Our daughter would otherwise be at a school with 30 other students, next to a methodone clinic. She's nearly a year younger than everyone (December bday) she's very small and has food allergies and bifocals. It makes me crazy that she COULD be going to public school and pay NOTHING to go there, but then I realize that the private school is a great opportunity for her and it's nothing short of a miracle that she actually got accepted. Then I feel like shit because i know we'll probably have to pull her out because we'll completely run out of money. We live in faculty housing, which is subsidized, so there's nowhere we could live (even outside the city) that we could afford once we factor in the cost of moving itself and the daily commute.
All of my husband's colleagues have successful spouses, and all the parents at my daughters school seem to have gobs of money. At my daughter's bday party i was struggling to make conversation with the other moms - y'know, a doctor, a lawyer and an astrophysicist who was showing me a ring she was wearing that was made by a famous fashion designer I know absolutely nothing about. In the beginning of the school year I tried to befriend them, but feel so stupid/unsophisticated/socially awkward that i've sort of withdrawn.
well - I should go since the kids are screaming at me!
I can totally relate to your
by Rosered - 02/14/2012 - 17:56
I can totally relate to your money woes. Our situation isn't quite as dire, but only because we probably had more money to start with and thus have been able to get by longer on our current poverty-level incomes. I never go out to eat; I try to have at least three days a week on which I don't use the car; I won't go to the doctor unless something really bad happens (fortunately, it hasn't yet; we have insurance but it's very expensive and has a huge deductible and I can't justify spending even more than the current one-third of pretax income on medical/insurance matters). I do allow my kids and husband to treat themselves better than this.
And I know what you mean about childcare sharing. I liked being home with my kids but I didn't particularly like taking care of other people's children. The tradeoff of some free time wouldn't have been worth it for me.
Do you have ADHD?
by not defined by adhd - 02/15/2012 - 00:00
Melissa,
Your comments are well taken and make sense logically. My issue is the following: In order to change or establish new routines or to have a conversation with your spouse that is well thought out, you need some time. When does a person who is a full-time mom, works part-time and takes care of the housework have time to change. What people like this need is a little break to regroup. You want her to find some friends...WHEN? I fully realize that time management is an ADHD issue. I am reminded of that and several others on a regular basis. But when your day is full of essential things to begin with, along with physical and emotional tiredness, reality, at least for me, is that you can't change alone. Both partners have to change. The ADHD partner needs some time just to figure out who he or she is. The non-ADHD partner needs to listen more. So many of these comments I have been reading are about the ADHD partner not listening to the non-ADHD partner. In my case, it is the opposite. I am the one with ADHD and my partner can articulate thoughts and plans in an instant. He can point out all the things that I need to be doing to "change". Yet, he has not. He does not yet understand the time it takes for me to express a coherent idea or plan. He also does not understand that his one sentence might trigger about 30 different thoughts in my head about what his "hidden meaning" is (although, logically I know he doesn't have one). Spouses of ADHDers need to listen more and give their spouses more time to think about responses. And ADHDers need to take the responsibility to get help (at least with medication at first--counseling takes time and money)!
Yeah I get the same thing all
by summerwine - 02/15/2012 - 00:38
Yeah I get the same thing all the time. You should do this and this and this. Ummm I'm a single mom who works full time and does babysitting for my niece and nephew. And my medication only lasts for so many hours in a day. When am I supposed to do all this? In my sleep?
I'm not sure if I could look More different than Geddy ;)
by YYZ - 02/14/2012 - 16:09
I totally understand the 100 mph once you step out of bed routine, money stress (Family tradition) and I really need downtime, which comes at my own peril (Time I could be sleeping). I seriously average about 5-6 hours on a good day during the week and 4 or 5 hours at times. I Know it's not enough, but I can do it. Before Adderall I was Exhausted All the Time, even with 2 hours more sleep than I get now. I guess my quality of rest is greatly improved.
Rah, Rah, Ree, kick 'em in the knee! ;)