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I would guess no, but, I also think it is just more obvious when a man has it, than a women. Because of a few reasons...One, the basic role a man should fill in the home and marriage. I also think men would fail to recognize it, and mange it as well as women would...I also think women are more sensitive and feel shame more easily...Which might cause them to dodge relationships where a man might not. Men are usually more needy than women in my opinion....
Wow if this correct, boy's are more likely to be diagnosed w/ adhd...And of those who are diagnosed they are 9 times more likely to be referred for treatment....That part is something that doesn't surprise me for the reasons I listed....
Boys are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD than girls because they are more likely to display the "H" which is so obvious. Girls, more likely to be inattentive type of ADHD come across as "spacey" or "dreamy", both of which are deemed by our society (sadly) to be more appropriate for girls than boys. This does not mean they don't suffer the same issues as boys in terms of feeling rejected or 'not good enough' when they observe that things that seem simply for others are hard for them.
The behavioral issues that boys express more openly may also lead to incorrect diagnosis of some boys who are young for their cohort and, therefore, simply less mature. One research study did suggest that kids who are young for their grade are more likely to get a diagnosis of ADHD - suggesting some incorrect diagnosis based upon age.
Many boys lose or overcome the "H" as they grow older (certainly not all!) so adult men with ADHD are less likely to express the "H". And about 20-30% of kids with ADHD learn how to manage their symptoms and/or overcome the symptoms to a degree where they no longer 'have' ADHD. (This means 70-80% carry ADHD into adulthood.)
Research demonstrates that there is no correlation between intelligence and ADHD, despite what the research report suggests below (the study mentioned is, in fact, incorrect...as they suggest - I can only think it was mentioned because the write up was done in 2010).
Bottom line is that more boys and men are recognized as having ADHD, but there is not as great a difference between the genders in terms of numbers as people believe.
You routed us to newer and better research on gender and ADHD than the article that came up on my search. That led me to wonder about any changes in knowledge about adult diagnosis, since this site is about ADHD and marriage. Have the stats on diagnosis of ADHD in adults, men or women, changed in the last decade? A fair number of forum members are reporting that they or their spouses were diagnosed after the age of 40 or 50. Has the way an adult is diagnosed changed? That question probably came from the interesting fact that the revision in view of numbers of boys diagnosed vs. numbers of girls came from looking again at the diagnostic process itself.
my daughter has schizophrenia, and there is a theory that hormonal imbalance can be a cause, so i was just wondering if there had been any research in relation to ADHD and hormones. Just clutching at straws i guess, as there seems to be so many theories as well as causes. meanwhile you just have to persevere with the medication because getting them to do the relevant tests isn't easy, and gp's are skeptical.
I do not know of any research that would suggest that hormones are implicated in ADHD. ADHD is about lack of the neurotransmitters dopamine and, to a lesser extent, seratonin - which are part of the brain's reward system. Russell Barkley also posits that executive function issues are a root cause of ADHD symptoms. They have tried to isolate (unsuccessfully) a gene, finding that many genes are implicated in the expression of ADHD and exactly how is not known. Diet, with very few exceptions, is also not a factor (the exceptions have to do with celiac disease, which people who are diagnosed with ADHD have at much higher rates than those who don't have it...and a very, very few people who have sensitivities to red dye.) There is also some recent research which suggests that exposure in uterus to common pain meds may increase the risk of developing ADHD, though I have not read the notes about how well done people think that research is.
Thank you Melissa. It sounds like ADHD is the opposite to schizophrenia in that people with schizophrenia have too much dopamine in their brain, not sure about the seratonin. I am surmising the imbalance of neurotransmitters affects the executive functioning, but not sure. Sounds like genetics could have something to do with it too. I might ask him if his mother took pain meds at all, according to him she was very overweight, but I am not sure if she was always like that. Thank you again, your information is very helpful.
thanks Melissa. he said he thought he was hyperactive, always getting into fights, detention etc. now he has serious health problems because of this I think. good that it can be treated now. also he can be immature sometimes, said he mixed with the older boys when he was at school, but I am having trouble listening to him because he talks so much, more the intensity come to think of it, but doesn't know when to stop.
I can give you my two bits here....based on my family and what I suspect ( with a pretty high degree of certainty based on what I've learned and witnessed personally ) since I believe both my mother and ( now ) both my my sisters are suspect too of having ADHD and how this played out which might help explain why the diagnosis shows up with boys more than girls even if both might have it? I'll break it down using myself and compare my two sisters and what I saw (or heard from them or my mother since they are older? )
Oldest sister #1 ( Ichi Ban lol...... the "I" for inattentive ) Was reported by my mother as "odd" because she would not go out and play with the other kids in the neighborhood or go out and seek playmates or socialize easily and was very reclusive. As was said, my mother had to "force her" to outside on nice sunny days because she would hold up inside and be totally absorbed in books or ( "Mousekateers on TV"....fantacy, Sci-Fi , etc....) She lived mainly in a fantasy world inside books and was and still is a voracious reader and when she was very young for the most part.;...lived inside the world of books and "Disneyland" ....the real "Disneyland" in this case ) Like Melissa had mentioned....she was very content just playing and doing things solo and was very much the inattentive who lived inside the world inside her head. She can come across as kind of "cold" or "aloof" and will always take a back seat in social settings but that being said ( because I know her so well ) does not mean she is not "engaged" in what's going on or is not paying attention. Most who would might meet her would think she is not very talkative but that's only because she is so "refrained" until she gets to know someone new ( quiet...but not so quiet if you get the meaning ). She speaks with her "eyes" and I have come to learn what her "eyes" are saying and they say a lot when you know the language. Her eye's are very expressive and in a pretty amusing way sometimes once you know what "the look" means. When my sister has "the look"...you can tell she is troubled or "miffed" and it's really easy to see once you know her but she will rarely says anything until later once she feels "safe" to speak up and is not around strangers but, that does not mean she does not have a definite "opinion" and actually tends to be the most "opinionated" or have the "strongest opinion" of the bunch in comparison to myself or my other sister. She can tend to be quite judgmental because of this which is a tough one to over come once she is or has committed and idea or "something on her mind". Stubborn yes...but in her own way and done "privately" or "silently" but just as hard headed as myself only more "silently" so and done in a more "reserved" manner.
This "manner" I'm talking about along with the vast amount of information she acquired and her skills from reading translated well into school in an "ideal" way as far as any teachers were concerned. It's easy to be "obedient" in school when sitting quietly and reading is what is "shiny" and "interesting" for someone already...and since being "reserved" around strangers and being "aloof" is part of this manner already....I would imagine this would make an "ideal" student. One who just walks in from day one.....doesn't talk too much unless asked a question. Doesn't volunteer much vocally in class. Keeps to themselves and doesn't socialize with other kids during class. Listens to instructions and then just open the book and their gone with their head down and inside the book they go no matter what it is or what topic of study? Highly curious and wants to know everything and is like a sponge who sits motionless on the bottom of the ocean, out of the way of everyone else and just sucks up information non stop all day....everyday....will very little need to socialize except with her own immediate family where she's comfortable. With us....she could be a riot because she had/has a very well developed sense of humor and even though not aggressive about it...had a tendency for a little passive aggressive...."practical joking" in a mild mannered way as well.
In fact...if you wanted to make the comparison to Clark Kent....mild mannered reporter....and Superman, once the transformation took place....that would be a good way to compare my oldest sister and myself in comparison. Once you add in the extra testosterone I think.....Clark Kent turns into Superman(boy)....and that's why boys stand out more than girls because the 'H" here in the way it seemed to work with me...and is all about testosterone when it comes to behaviors and "things that are shiny" and what I did with that and I'm not even kidding all that much which I well explain in the difference I'm seeing here.
The fascinating things here between my oldest sister and myself was how we are so markedly different ...but yet so similar of "mind". I don;t speak that much about my middle sister here because she was almost an 'idealic" child so to speak as far a behaviors and I have my own theory on that which is she was more like me in the "H" department....."outgoing, and very sociable"....but that made her more needy and less secure and more in need of stimulation as well. In need of stimulation came in terms of "dancing" and "performing" and being a natural born "thespian". She is totally comfortable getting up in front of an audience and speaking "to groups"....being "in groups"....interacting "in groups"...and seeking "group activities" with lots of people around....that I think this is actually a tendency from the same insecurities to start with...but learning these skills early because this is what she sought after "most" compared to my other sister who was the extreme opposite of this. You could hardly have a complaint about my middle sister and normally....no one every does.
She is "Miss Congeniality" in almost any social setting and she can get people feeling very comfortable and safe since she is naturally.... very low on the "opinionated or judgmental" scale of measure but she has a tendency to be "hurt" easily....not so much offended..... and will break down and cry when something happens that is very emotionally intense. She is not "strong willed" either and is extremely "pliable" and is "highly obedient"...and will never cause waves. In school however...she had a tendency to talk to much in class which was the only reprimand she ever got but was not problematic. She was so "highly obedient" ( the classic "Good Girl )....at all times no matter where she went....she was and is..... a total people pleaser in all good ways...but not so good for her do to the insecurity that I have always sensed and known is there.
And between myself and my oldest sister who are so different than each other in one way...and so much the same in the way we "think" however...it is really interesting how that played out in contrast to my middle sister and how this all comes together under one heading ie: ADHD.
side note: Since I'm saying all of this based on just my own opinion or diagnosis....I have so much strong evidence now to suspect that both myself and my sisters plus my mother and grand mother (her mom) all have/had ADHD....that I'm working from this speculation "As IF"....it is for sure and just running with it because I'm more than a little sure now from everything I know to date? I think it might really useful to see how this plays out differently from one person to the next which is why I'm going through this to sight what I see and my own conclusions here?
So the interesting results here with one common theme as I'm seeing it now which as told to me by my T in a couple of references to my family....not the norm from what he's seen which is why I am so strongly leaning in this direction and why that is ie: ADHD again.
Sister #1 Highly intelligent. Highly intuitive. Highly aware but completely reserved and reclusive. Not so much socially "awkward"...actually the opposite of that but mainly...not socially motivated at all and perfectly content to be an island unto herself. Strong minded, strong willed, and a strong opinion to go along with it that is not easily swayed by anyone and can be as stubborn yet open minded...as a person can possibly get....both at the same time which means....she may not say anything or be overt in her behavior...but she puts out lazer beams stares that could melt a solid block of steel if you were to get on her bad side which she is likely not to tell you even if you are. You are either...."in"....or ...;."out"....by "silent majority" with the majority in my sisters case as being "ONE" in the same. LOL Only ONE opinion exists in my oldest sisters mind...and it's hers since no one else is going to have any effect on her.....once she has her mind set...on anything and it is hard to get her to budge or change once this happens. Having said that....she is smart about it...and highly logical and less emotional and is easily reasoned with and not argumentative. Easily reasoned with, reserved, quiet, unemotional and generally calm and mild mannered to the extreme, while at the same time ....Stubborn as a mule, mule headed and extremely strong in opinion. Strong....would be a good overall character feature that my oldest sister has in spades despite her 5' 2" (weak appearance)....that would sum up my oldest sister and why she flies under the radar so well while having ADHD at the same time. She is as I see it.....the female counter part to "Little Man Syndrome"...who can be "highly assertive" when pushed into a coroner. A bit a "chip" on the shoulder.....but only in subtle less noticeable ways. More to slow burn and stay that way for a very long time. But yet....non reactive and outwardly unemotional about it and does not "cry" easily which is rare for her to ever to do and will do it usually....when no one is around. She is highly structure, highly organized and highly based on routine and is a "creature of habit"....more than anything else. Any ADHD symptoms that may have manifested....my oldest sister took care of those early so they never manifested into a problem...but don't hit her off guard and not prepared in anything. She needs lots and lots of time....to think things through carefully and is extremely thorough and extremely measured in everything because of it. No stone left unturned....that would be the operating system my oldest sister depends on. But don't try and change things on her...don't try and change her mind on anything....and don't try to get her out of her routine...she is as rigid as fence post cemented firmly into the ground.
She also has the most somatic and physical 'ailments" in terms of head aches (migrains) , trouble sleeping, and problems sometimes with her moods which again...is hard to tell because she deals with all things in general...."silently"...and...."by herself".
My middle sister is the most compliant person on the planet. But she is also highly "gregarious and social" as well and active beyond belief. Her day starts early...and ends late...and theirs no stopping that train...once it leaves the station. Active, active, active....non stop and she will wear almost anyone out in the "activities department." She is the social setter, organizers and Butterfly all rolled into one and Miss Congeniality...is her middle name. She is like water...and can fill any shape vessel at any time at the drop of a hat and is best...when pleasing others and thinking about others needs, wants and desires....and less of herself. This gets her into trouble in the "time" department because there's always too much to do...and too little time to do it...and sitting in one place for more than a few minutes is difficult for her to do. She's got a job...24/7.....and that's pleasing everyone all at the same time which few people have a problem with...until you need her to be on time.
There's normal people time...and then there's my #2 sister time...which is chronically behind schedule...and chronically late for everything. The worst...of our entire family including me. I may be off between 5 and 15 minutes....where sister #2...can be off anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours depending on circumstances and she's up at 5am...and commonly goes to bed well after mid-night and never "stops" in between to rest or ...not be moving..... on a regular basis. #2 sister seems much higher in the H....department in some ways....more than me from appearances but without any aggressive behavior to speak of at all. She almost never gets angry and I've never seen her assert herself in any way that could be viewed...."offensive". But highly emotionally sensitive, less secure and less self oriented and this makes for her biggest "flaw" which is strong in denial as a means to compensate. As I'm seeing this more clearly.....strong "denial"...seems to go hand in hand with ....weaker in "will"...or "will power...as I'm seeing this? That laser beam stare my oldest sister has even though silently "assertive"?.....think about Superman while still being Clark Kent...and needing to see through walls or melt a Tank with his laser vision. That would be my oldest sister.....less denial....more laser beam! LOL
And then there's me in comparison which is a combination of these two with my own personal flair on top of it. If you take the H part of ADHD...and amplifying my middles sisters behavior...times 5....plus the laser beam ability of my oldest sister and her thinking and general disposition....with some of my middle sisters "social need" or "insecurities" ..and less the stubborn or rigid unchangeability aspect but less denial like my middles sister...and more aggressive in nature than my oldest sister....that would be me but that turn out so much different than my oldest sister who I am closer to in some ways and not in others because of the "H"....as I'm seeing it.
If you take everything I said about my oldest sister....add in tester. add in the "H"...and add in an insatiable need to "touch things"..and get to know my external environment in a "tactile sense"...what you've got is a person who will get lost inside their heads in stories and fantasies like my oldest sister....but now wants to "act on them" and try them out for real. LOL
I wasn't kidding about the Superman(boy) part and I wanted to be just like my "heroes" in those stories I would read or watch on TV and the three that I was most fixated with was Tarzan, Superman and any Indian in Westerns since I always wanted to be the Indian because of all the cool stuff they did (skills in the outdoors lol ) The Tarzan thing led to me swimming ultimately which makes sense if you remember Johhny Wiemuller as Tarzan. That part was doable in real life as a boy. The part about Superman that I was not doing .....but I was bound and determined to try was "flying" and that had it's own set of challenges that I was hell bent on getting past at least until I figured it was finally not possible. LOL
In the :"essence of"....getting past gravity in order to fly....these are the steps I took in order to try and get past "physics or nature" or at least give it my best attempt. lol If they could have given me a Nickname....my nickname would have been "Johnny Airtime"......big time! lol I was all about....."maximum airtime:" and sought anything that might propel me into space or keep me there for as long as possible which was the goal after all? LOL
The first attempt with actual "cape on"...was to climb on our roof and jump off into the front yard into the grass. This almost cause my mother to have her second coronary...which came after riding my Tricycle down the stairs because she told me we were going downstrairs which seemed like the thing to do at the time. LOL
But with a little practice....I got really good at jumping off our roof despite my mothers protest and I then needed something so I could go higher...but would slow me down before I hit the ground? lol I unsuccessfully...attempted to make a parachute and this just wasn't working and then my prayers were answered by our neighbor who saw my attempts and pulled out a real cargo parachute from the army that he had saved. This things was so enormous...that it was really difficult to manage I remember? LOL Anyway.....when my mother looked out the window and saw me para-sailing by about 6 feet off the ground going sideways because I figured out that I couldn't go high enough to make that work since our roof was really the only source for base jumping I had.....I found that sideways worked pretty well.... but then the parachute was confiscated until I was older and had that out of my system or so she thought. lol This was also to the general disappointment of all my friends in the neighborhood who now wanted to try. lol All of this...was in and around the same time my mother...reported having to kick my oldest sister out of the house to go ....play outside. If you see how the same thing got manifested...but only different between a girl and boy....it might give you a better insight as to the motivations and the reason why? I think this is quite telling to me...at the very least and it helps a lot now...in understanding my wife who I'm seeing it through the same lens as my oldest sister and trying to apply it that way which is really really lining up...except.....my wife is the opposite or her in that she is so highly vocal, assertive and rather aggressive about it where my oldest sister is just the opposite and is passive about it which I found a very helpful way to gain insight for my wife...by using my two sisters (and mother even) in making these comparisons and how they play out.....male...or female...based on tendencies in both to be that way already?
wow thanks J for all that information about your family, they are certainly interesting! it sounds like genes has a lot to do with ADHD and it affects both male and female equally but with different behaviours. i will have to reread your letter, there is a lot to digest there. thanks again. take care.
You're so welcome by the way. I'm still learning and trying to figure this out now too...and especially since I'm seeing these differences with men and women with ADHD. Ironically ( and maybe not so ironically? Birds of a feather? ) My wife has a close friend who is a woman with ADHD and we compared stories one time...and we both had one similar experience in school growingup, which was getting sent out into the hall for talking while in class. ( oops )
And she went on to say...that when ever that happened...she would just go wandering around the halls instead of standing there quietly in one spot like you were expected to do (as your penitents to learn a lesson from ). I burst out laughing because this was exactly the same thing I did. In fact....other teachers would see me wandering around up and down the halls just checking things out and would stop and ask me where I was suppose to be? lol "Out in the Hall where my teacher put me....she never said where though?" lol
I have no idea why they didn't believe me? (wink ) lol
There is so much detail and insight here. I wonder how many siblings have the close attention and understanding that you exhibit in describing your sisters. Impressive. I wish you and your wife a happy relationship :>
That's an interesting question....
Submitted by c ur self on
I would guess no, but, I also think it is just more obvious when a man has it, than a women. Because of a few reasons...One, the basic role a man should fill in the home and marriage. I also think men would fail to recognize it, and mange it as well as women would...I also think women are more sensitive and feel shame more easily...Which might cause them to dodge relationships where a man might not. Men are usually more needy than women in my opinion....
Just my thoughts...
C
I thought hormones might have
Submitted by inthedark on
I thought hormones might have played a role, but sounds like it just manifests differently. thank you.
From the web
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
http://cpancf.com/articles_files/art_57attached_file.asp
An article on Webmed also links to research
OK...maybe my opinion was not correct...1st time:)... LOL....
Submitted by c ur self on
Wow if this correct, boy's are more likely to be diagnosed w/ adhd...And of those who are diagnosed they are 9 times more likely to be referred for treatment....That part is something that doesn't surprise me for the reasons I listed....
I guess I was just lucky! (Pun intended)....
C
gender differences
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Boys are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD than girls because they are more likely to display the "H" which is so obvious. Girls, more likely to be inattentive type of ADHD come across as "spacey" or "dreamy", both of which are deemed by our society (sadly) to be more appropriate for girls than boys. This does not mean they don't suffer the same issues as boys in terms of feeling rejected or 'not good enough' when they observe that things that seem simply for others are hard for them.
The behavioral issues that boys express more openly may also lead to incorrect diagnosis of some boys who are young for their cohort and, therefore, simply less mature. One research study did suggest that kids who are young for their grade are more likely to get a diagnosis of ADHD - suggesting some incorrect diagnosis based upon age.
Many boys lose or overcome the "H" as they grow older (certainly not all!) so adult men with ADHD are less likely to express the "H". And about 20-30% of kids with ADHD learn how to manage their symptoms and/or overcome the symptoms to a degree where they no longer 'have' ADHD. (This means 70-80% carry ADHD into adulthood.)
Research demonstrates that there is no correlation between intelligence and ADHD, despite what the research report suggests below (the study mentioned is, in fact, incorrect...as they suggest - I can only think it was mentioned because the write up was done in 2010).
Bottom line is that more boys and men are recognized as having ADHD, but there is not as great a difference between the genders in terms of numbers as people believe.
Thanks, Melissa
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Have there been any changes in diagnosis of adults in the last decade?
Not sure what you're asking
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I am not sure what you are asking with this question...can you clarify for me?
Hello, Melissa
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
You routed us to newer and better research on gender and ADHD than the article that came up on my search. That led me to wonder about any changes in knowledge about adult diagnosis, since this site is about ADHD and marriage. Have the stats on diagnosis of ADHD in adults, men or women, changed in the last decade? A fair number of forum members are reporting that they or their spouses were diagnosed after the age of 40 or 50. Has the way an adult is diagnosed changed? That question probably came from the interesting fact that the revision in view of numbers of boys diagnosed vs. numbers of girls came from looking again at the diagnostic process itself.
Thanks.
causes of ADHD
Submitted by inthedark on
my daughter has schizophrenia, and there is a theory that hormonal imbalance can be a cause, so i was just wondering if there had been any research in relation to ADHD and hormones. Just clutching at straws i guess, as there seems to be so many theories as well as causes. meanwhile you just have to persevere with the medication because getting them to do the relevant tests isn't easy, and gp's are skeptical.
hormones
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I do not know of any research that would suggest that hormones are implicated in ADHD. ADHD is about lack of the neurotransmitters dopamine and, to a lesser extent, seratonin - which are part of the brain's reward system. Russell Barkley also posits that executive function issues are a root cause of ADHD symptoms. They have tried to isolate (unsuccessfully) a gene, finding that many genes are implicated in the expression of ADHD and exactly how is not known. Diet, with very few exceptions, is also not a factor (the exceptions have to do with celiac disease, which people who are diagnosed with ADHD have at much higher rates than those who don't have it...and a very, very few people who have sensitivities to red dye.) There is also some recent research which suggests that exposure in uterus to common pain meds may increase the risk of developing ADHD, though I have not read the notes about how well done people think that research is.
hormones
Submitted by inthedark on
Thank you Melissa. It sounds like ADHD is the opposite to schizophrenia in that people with schizophrenia have too much dopamine in their brain, not sure about the seratonin. I am surmising the imbalance of neurotransmitters affects the executive functioning, but not sure. Sounds like genetics could have something to do with it too. I might ask him if his mother took pain meds at all, according to him she was very overweight, but I am not sure if she was always like that. Thank you again, your information is very helpful.
gender differences
Submitted by inthedark on
thanks Melissa. he said he thought he was hyperactive, always getting into fights, detention etc. now he has serious health problems because of this I think. good that it can be treated now. also he can be immature sometimes, said he mixed with the older boys when he was at school, but I am having trouble listening to him because he talks so much, more the intensity come to think of it, but doesn't know when to stop.
Subject of Interest : One Mans Expereince
Submitted by kellyj on
Inthedark,
I can give you my two bits here....based on my family and what I suspect ( with a pretty high degree of certainty based on what I've learned and witnessed personally ) since I believe both my mother and ( now ) both my my sisters are suspect too of having ADHD and how this played out which might help explain why the diagnosis shows up with boys more than girls even if both might have it? I'll break it down using myself and compare my two sisters and what I saw (or heard from them or my mother since they are older? )
Oldest sister #1 ( Ichi Ban lol...... the "I" for inattentive ) Was reported by my mother as "odd" because she would not go out and play with the other kids in the neighborhood or go out and seek playmates or socialize easily and was very reclusive. As was said, my mother had to "force her" to outside on nice sunny days because she would hold up inside and be totally absorbed in books or ( "Mousekateers on TV"....fantacy, Sci-Fi , etc....) She lived mainly in a fantasy world inside books and was and still is a voracious reader and when she was very young for the most part.;...lived inside the world of books and "Disneyland" ....the real "Disneyland" in this case ) Like Melissa had mentioned....she was very content just playing and doing things solo and was very much the inattentive who lived inside the world inside her head. She can come across as kind of "cold" or "aloof" and will always take a back seat in social settings but that being said ( because I know her so well ) does not mean she is not "engaged" in what's going on or is not paying attention. Most who would might meet her would think she is not very talkative but that's only because she is so "refrained" until she gets to know someone new ( quiet...but not so quiet if you get the meaning ). She speaks with her "eyes" and I have come to learn what her "eyes" are saying and they say a lot when you know the language. Her eye's are very expressive and in a pretty amusing way sometimes once you know what "the look" means. When my sister has "the look"...you can tell she is troubled or "miffed" and it's really easy to see once you know her but she will rarely says anything until later once she feels "safe" to speak up and is not around strangers but, that does not mean she does not have a definite "opinion" and actually tends to be the most "opinionated" or have the "strongest opinion" of the bunch in comparison to myself or my other sister. She can tend to be quite judgmental because of this which is a tough one to over come once she is or has committed and idea or "something on her mind". Stubborn yes...but in her own way and done "privately" or "silently" but just as hard headed as myself only more "silently" so and done in a more "reserved" manner.
This "manner" I'm talking about along with the vast amount of information she acquired and her skills from reading translated well into school in an "ideal" way as far as any teachers were concerned. It's easy to be "obedient" in school when sitting quietly and reading is what is "shiny" and "interesting" for someone already...and since being "reserved" around strangers and being "aloof" is part of this manner already....I would imagine this would make an "ideal" student. One who just walks in from day one.....doesn't talk too much unless asked a question. Doesn't volunteer much vocally in class. Keeps to themselves and doesn't socialize with other kids during class. Listens to instructions and then just open the book and their gone with their head down and inside the book they go no matter what it is or what topic of study? Highly curious and wants to know everything and is like a sponge who sits motionless on the bottom of the ocean, out of the way of everyone else and just sucks up information non stop all day....everyday....will very little need to socialize except with her own immediate family where she's comfortable. With us....she could be a riot because she had/has a very well developed sense of humor and even though not aggressive about it...had a tendency for a little passive aggressive...."practical joking" in a mild mannered way as well.
In fact...if you wanted to make the comparison to Clark Kent....mild mannered reporter....and Superman, once the transformation took place....that would be a good way to compare my oldest sister and myself in comparison. Once you add in the extra testosterone I think.....Clark Kent turns into Superman(boy)....and that's why boys stand out more than girls because the 'H" here in the way it seemed to work with me...and is all about testosterone when it comes to behaviors and "things that are shiny" and what I did with that and I'm not even kidding all that much which I well explain in the difference I'm seeing here.
The fascinating things here between my oldest sister and myself was how we are so markedly different ...but yet so similar of "mind". I don;t speak that much about my middle sister here because she was almost an 'idealic" child so to speak as far a behaviors and I have my own theory on that which is she was more like me in the "H" department....."outgoing, and very sociable"....but that made her more needy and less secure and more in need of stimulation as well. In need of stimulation came in terms of "dancing" and "performing" and being a natural born "thespian". She is totally comfortable getting up in front of an audience and speaking "to groups"....being "in groups"....interacting "in groups"...and seeking "group activities" with lots of people around....that I think this is actually a tendency from the same insecurities to start with...but learning these skills early because this is what she sought after "most" compared to my other sister who was the extreme opposite of this. You could hardly have a complaint about my middle sister and normally....no one every does.
She is "Miss Congeniality" in almost any social setting and she can get people feeling very comfortable and safe since she is naturally.... very low on the "opinionated or judgmental" scale of measure but she has a tendency to be "hurt" easily....not so much offended..... and will break down and cry when something happens that is very emotionally intense. She is not "strong willed" either and is extremely "pliable" and is "highly obedient"...and will never cause waves. In school however...she had a tendency to talk to much in class which was the only reprimand she ever got but was not problematic. She was so "highly obedient" ( the classic "Good Girl )....at all times no matter where she went....she was and is..... a total people pleaser in all good ways...but not so good for her do to the insecurity that I have always sensed and known is there.
And between myself and my oldest sister who are so different than each other in one way...and so much the same in the way we "think" however...it is really interesting how that played out in contrast to my middle sister and how this all comes together under one heading ie: ADHD.
side note: Since I'm saying all of this based on just my own opinion or diagnosis....I have so much strong evidence now to suspect that both myself and my sisters plus my mother and grand mother (her mom) all have/had ADHD....that I'm working from this speculation "As IF"....it is for sure and just running with it because I'm more than a little sure now from everything I know to date? I think it might really useful to see how this plays out differently from one person to the next which is why I'm going through this to sight what I see and my own conclusions here?
So the interesting results here with one common theme as I'm seeing it now which as told to me by my T in a couple of references to my family....not the norm from what he's seen which is why I am so strongly leaning in this direction and why that is ie: ADHD again.
Sister #1 Highly intelligent. Highly intuitive. Highly aware but completely reserved and reclusive. Not so much socially "awkward"...actually the opposite of that but mainly...not socially motivated at all and perfectly content to be an island unto herself. Strong minded, strong willed, and a strong opinion to go along with it that is not easily swayed by anyone and can be as stubborn yet open minded...as a person can possibly get....both at the same time which means....she may not say anything or be overt in her behavior...but she puts out lazer beams stares that could melt a solid block of steel if you were to get on her bad side which she is likely not to tell you even if you are. You are either...."in"....or ...;."out"....by "silent majority" with the majority in my sisters case as being "ONE" in the same. LOL Only ONE opinion exists in my oldest sisters mind...and it's hers since no one else is going to have any effect on her.....once she has her mind set...on anything and it is hard to get her to budge or change once this happens. Having said that....she is smart about it...and highly logical and less emotional and is easily reasoned with and not argumentative. Easily reasoned with, reserved, quiet, unemotional and generally calm and mild mannered to the extreme, while at the same time ....Stubborn as a mule, mule headed and extremely strong in opinion. Strong....would be a good overall character feature that my oldest sister has in spades despite her 5' 2" (weak appearance)....that would sum up my oldest sister and why she flies under the radar so well while having ADHD at the same time. She is as I see it.....the female counter part to "Little Man Syndrome"...who can be "highly assertive" when pushed into a coroner. A bit a "chip" on the shoulder.....but only in subtle less noticeable ways. More to slow burn and stay that way for a very long time. But yet....non reactive and outwardly unemotional about it and does not "cry" easily which is rare for her to ever to do and will do it usually....when no one is around. She is highly structure, highly organized and highly based on routine and is a "creature of habit"....more than anything else. Any ADHD symptoms that may have manifested....my oldest sister took care of those early so they never manifested into a problem...but don't hit her off guard and not prepared in anything. She needs lots and lots of time....to think things through carefully and is extremely thorough and extremely measured in everything because of it. No stone left unturned....that would be the operating system my oldest sister depends on. But don't try and change things on her...don't try and change her mind on anything....and don't try to get her out of her routine...she is as rigid as fence post cemented firmly into the ground.
She also has the most somatic and physical 'ailments" in terms of head aches (migrains) , trouble sleeping, and problems sometimes with her moods which again...is hard to tell because she deals with all things in general...."silently"...and...."by herself".
My middle sister is the most compliant person on the planet. But she is also highly "gregarious and social" as well and active beyond belief. Her day starts early...and ends late...and theirs no stopping that train...once it leaves the station. Active, active, active....non stop and she will wear almost anyone out in the "activities department." She is the social setter, organizers and Butterfly all rolled into one and Miss Congeniality...is her middle name. She is like water...and can fill any shape vessel at any time at the drop of a hat and is best...when pleasing others and thinking about others needs, wants and desires....and less of herself. This gets her into trouble in the "time" department because there's always too much to do...and too little time to do it...and sitting in one place for more than a few minutes is difficult for her to do. She's got a job...24/7.....and that's pleasing everyone all at the same time which few people have a problem with...until you need her to be on time.
There's normal people time...and then there's my #2 sister time...which is chronically behind schedule...and chronically late for everything. The worst...of our entire family including me. I may be off between 5 and 15 minutes....where sister #2...can be off anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours depending on circumstances and she's up at 5am...and commonly goes to bed well after mid-night and never "stops" in between to rest or ...not be moving..... on a regular basis. #2 sister seems much higher in the H....department in some ways....more than me from appearances but without any aggressive behavior to speak of at all. She almost never gets angry and I've never seen her assert herself in any way that could be viewed...."offensive". But highly emotionally sensitive, less secure and less self oriented and this makes for her biggest "flaw" which is strong in denial as a means to compensate. As I'm seeing this more clearly.....strong "denial"...seems to go hand in hand with ....weaker in "will"...or "will power...as I'm seeing this? That laser beam stare my oldest sister has even though silently "assertive"?.....think about Superman while still being Clark Kent...and needing to see through walls or melt a Tank with his laser vision. That would be my oldest sister.....less denial....more laser beam! LOL
And then there's me in comparison which is a combination of these two with my own personal flair on top of it. If you take the H part of ADHD...and amplifying my middles sisters behavior...times 5....plus the laser beam ability of my oldest sister and her thinking and general disposition....with some of my middle sisters "social need" or "insecurities" ..and less the stubborn or rigid unchangeability aspect but less denial like my middles sister...and more aggressive in nature than my oldest sister....that would be me but that turn out so much different than my oldest sister who I am closer to in some ways and not in others because of the "H"....as I'm seeing it.
If you take everything I said about my oldest sister....add in tester. add in the "H"...and add in an insatiable need to "touch things"..and get to know my external environment in a "tactile sense"...what you've got is a person who will get lost inside their heads in stories and fantasies like my oldest sister....but now wants to "act on them" and try them out for real. LOL
I wasn't kidding about the Superman(boy) part and I wanted to be just like my "heroes" in those stories I would read or watch on TV and the three that I was most fixated with was Tarzan, Superman and any Indian in Westerns since I always wanted to be the Indian because of all the cool stuff they did (skills in the outdoors lol ) The Tarzan thing led to me swimming ultimately which makes sense if you remember Johhny Wiemuller as Tarzan. That part was doable in real life as a boy. The part about Superman that I was not doing .....but I was bound and determined to try was "flying" and that had it's own set of challenges that I was hell bent on getting past at least until I figured it was finally not possible. LOL
In the :"essence of"....getting past gravity in order to fly....these are the steps I took in order to try and get past "physics or nature" or at least give it my best attempt. lol If they could have given me a Nickname....my nickname would have been "Johnny Airtime"......big time! lol I was all about....."maximum airtime:" and sought anything that might propel me into space or keep me there for as long as possible which was the goal after all? LOL
The first attempt with actual "cape on"...was to climb on our roof and jump off into the front yard into the grass. This almost cause my mother to have her second coronary...which came after riding my Tricycle down the stairs because she told me we were going downstrairs which seemed like the thing to do at the time. LOL
But with a little practice....I got really good at jumping off our roof despite my mothers protest and I then needed something so I could go higher...but would slow me down before I hit the ground? lol I unsuccessfully...attempted to make a parachute and this just wasn't working and then my prayers were answered by our neighbor who saw my attempts and pulled out a real cargo parachute from the army that he had saved. This things was so enormous...that it was really difficult to manage I remember? LOL Anyway.....when my mother looked out the window and saw me para-sailing by about 6 feet off the ground going sideways because I figured out that I couldn't go high enough to make that work since our roof was really the only source for base jumping I had.....I found that sideways worked pretty well.... but then the parachute was confiscated until I was older and had that out of my system or so she thought. lol This was also to the general disappointment of all my friends in the neighborhood who now wanted to try. lol All of this...was in and around the same time my mother...reported having to kick my oldest sister out of the house to go ....play outside. If you see how the same thing got manifested...but only different between a girl and boy....it might give you a better insight as to the motivations and the reason why? I think this is quite telling to me...at the very least and it helps a lot now...in understanding my wife who I'm seeing it through the same lens as my oldest sister and trying to apply it that way which is really really lining up...except.....my wife is the opposite or her in that she is so highly vocal, assertive and rather aggressive about it where my oldest sister is just the opposite and is passive about it which I found a very helpful way to gain insight for my wife...by using my two sisters (and mother even) in making these comparisons and how they play out.....male...or female...based on tendencies in both to be that way already?
J
interesting
Submitted by inthedark on
wow thanks J for all that information about your family, they are certainly interesting! it sounds like genes has a lot to do with ADHD and it affects both male and female equally but with different behaviours. i will have to reread your letter, there is a lot to digest there. thanks again. take care.
K
One Interesting Bit of Info
Submitted by kellyj on
You're so welcome by the way. I'm still learning and trying to figure this out now too...and especially since I'm seeing these differences with men and women with ADHD. Ironically ( and maybe not so ironically? Birds of a feather? ) My wife has a close friend who is a woman with ADHD and we compared stories one time...and we both had one similar experience in school growingup, which was getting sent out into the hall for talking while in class. ( oops )
And she went on to say...that when ever that happened...she would just go wandering around the halls instead of standing there quietly in one spot like you were expected to do (as your penitents to learn a lesson from ). I burst out laughing because this was exactly the same thing I did. In fact....other teachers would see me wandering around up and down the halls just checking things out and would stop and ask me where I was suppose to be? lol "Out in the Hall where my teacher put me....she never said where though?" lol
I have no idea why they didn't believe me? (wink ) lol
J
JJamieson
Submitted by Ifeelstupid on
There is so much detail and insight here. I wonder how many siblings have the close attention and understanding that you exhibit in describing your sisters. Impressive. I wish you and your wife a happy relationship :>