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Generally. My issue today is, on it's surface related to communication, but more generally related to a desire to not live parallel lives within a marriage without accountability to one another. I see that this is how it is and I no longer hold hope that I will be considered as a partner with a voice. I don't care to participate any longer. It's not how I view a marriage and I deserve better. This is 2016, not 1916. H's behavior, unrelated to ADHD, suggests a shall we say "retro" view of marriage. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to even uphold the standards of an older, more traditional version of marriage. He hasn't led well if that was his intention and he has deliberately stonewalled and sandbagged me to the point where I cannot be effective.
My last straw has not been one big AH-HA moment but rather a series of smaller realizations followed by my acceptance. I just don't know how much more I can give up. I have given up the idea that I come first. I have given up the idea that we could have real conversations, like a give and take, not just me talking and him getting defensive. I have given up thinking I could get help with the financial decisions. I have given up expecting any follow through on anything he says he is going to do. I have given up expecting him to mature and act his age. I have given up believing the things he says, like what time he will be home. I have given up the idea of loyalty--the other three women the past four years taught me that. I have given up consistent answers to texts during the day so I quit sending them. So if I accept all his limitations and stop expecting things he is not capable of, what is left? Why be with someone if they cannot uphold their end of the deal? If I have to manage the day to day minutiae of life and find support for myself from other friends and do my hobbies or the things I love alone, then really, what's the point of being married? That is where I am at. I have one child going to college next year and another two years later and then what? We have nothing to talk about now when there are kids between us, what in the world will we talk about when there is nobody to hold us together? The things I love--long walks by the lake, yoga, swimming, going out to dinner, opera--we don't do any of those things together. I do those things alone or with girlfriends. When something good happens, my DH is not the first person I want to share it with. When I need advice, he is not the first person I ask. In fact, usually he never has any idea there even was a problem or something on my mind. How bizarre is that? It makes me so sad for the amount of time I have wasted with him. If I had to point to a true last straw, it would be the third woman that he sat in a therapy session and lied to me about. I had fun with that one though--she kept emailing DH and once tried to friend my oldest son on Facebook so I emailed her and offered to meet her and answer whatever questions she had. I told her she was most welcome to DH but not my boys. And she forwarded it to DH. Poor thing--he had been lying to me for weeks that he was in contact with her and then she forwarded my email to him, like I figured she would, and he didn't know what to say to me that wouldn't give it away that he was in regular contact with her. That was fun actually. In any case, I know I can live without him, so what do I need him for? It's really sad and lonely.
I'm the ADHD guy. I was recently diagnosed....one week ago. I'm not on medication yet. Your lack of hope seems similar to my wife who recently filed for divorce. She did this about a month before my diagnosis. I read Melissa Orlov's book, it is our relationship, for the most part, in a book. I'm now seeking treatment (two weeks in) with a different psychologist who has great knowledge of ADHD and relationships. I have not been unfaitthul to my wife but have had numerous issues because I exercise with women, one woman was younger, I texted with her and emailed her (all normal stuff) but I kept it from my wife. I just wasn't up to dealing with the jealousy. I resented it. I was doing "nothing wrong" but made her feel on the outside after she found out. My biggest ADHD contributors are inattentiveness (you don't love me, you hate me, you're not interested in what I do, who I am) and spontaneous/impulsive behavior...I've done some really stupid stuff without really thinking about it. I just want to know if you survived and knowing what you know about me, would you have given ME a chance, to work with me? After being so fed up, what would have made you say, "ok, I'll try to go forward"? I'm sorry you have problems and hope you are ok.
I want to edit this by saying that while I did feel like I was doing "nothing wrong" as my relations were platonic, I realized after time...and wish it didn't take me as much time as it did...that my behavior was inappropriate and I was very sorry to have hurt her like I did.
Thanks for following up and checking on the situation. Congratulations on moving forward in treatment. I hope everything goes well with you.
This is quick and very off the cuff.
There isn't "one thing". You need to ask your wife this question. However, I suspect she has already told you very explicitly what she needs over the years.
My husband could have said those words to me. He told me he wasn't doing anything/didn't do anything. Hid the behavior because he didn't want to argue with me. He told me it was not big deal and "just b.s.". He repeated the behavior after knowing it hurt me. If he didn't think he was doing anything wrong or didn't intend to hurt me, what's the big deal?
I agree with other posters in saying that it is inappropriate and disrespectful behavior, especially in light of general inattentiveness, as was the case with my husband. Of course it hurts if you pay attention to other women and ignore your wife. My husband told me how I felt. He didn't say "jealous" but he did say things like I paid attention to things that didn't matter or was insecure... etc. He labeled my feelings without attempting to understand what I was actually feeling.
I resented, every bit as much as the inappropriate actions, that my husband was telling me how I felt. I felt a lot of things. Among them:
I FELT betrayed and manipulated.
I FELT what else is he hiding if this is all I could find by accident?
I FELT unappreciated and not valued or loved.
I FELT invisible, unheard, unnoticed.
I FELT angry.
I FELT disappointed in him.
I FELT actual shame.
I FELT disgust toward him.
I FELT appalled.
I FELT that with his impulsive nature, that continued use of these sites and particpating in these actions was a slippery slope. Eventually, someone would act inappropriately and "real" harm would be done, if not already.
I FELT that I couldn't trust him and that he lied to me. Lies by omission count.
I FELT that I didn't want to wait around until I was the woman who was actually cheated on if it hadn't already occurred.
I FELT that he didn't take any responsibility for the state of our marriage and made excuses for very poor behavior.
I FELT that I no longer wanted to be "that woman" who was perpetually neglected and hurt.
As you can see, I didn't feel any of the emotions that my husband attributed to me. I didn't feel insecure or controlling. I didn't want to control him; I wanted him to act like a responsible husband.
Someone on this board - help me out guys - posted some very thorough and eloquent comments on what is a true apology. It is very helpful information. I never received a real apology. It would have gone a long way. He explained that the "stakes are too high" and he "might get it wrong" that he "would work on it with the therapist". In short, he withheld the apology. It felt abusive.
I'm sorry, my bad, but I didn't want to deal with you I just wanted to do what I wanted to do without accountability. Nope, that won't cut it. That's not an apology. It's an excuse.
One thing that MIGHT help is to have a clear understanding of how she felt and the pain she has endured. You should talk to your counselor to request help with this. You might also consider figuring out what you get out of this behavior? Why do you feel it necessary to be flirtatious and push those boundaries of marriage? You're getting something out of it or you wouldn't do it. If I am overly flirtatious with someone, what I get out of besides a temporary high is a huge mountain of guilt over my behavior. Even with a crappy marriage where some people have told me that I should "do" whatever I want to at this point, I can't. Get it? I know I did something wrong and something that might hurt my spouse.
Anyway, I gave two years worth of chances. I found more lies and more inappropriate activity so we are done. He didn't stick with therapy and he stopped taking the meds.
Vabeachgal, as always - sometimes I think you have read my mind, somehow captures my own deepest thoughts with your posts. While our circumstance is just slightly different - those feelings you have, I share them.
Honestly - when I read Addfor20's post, most of those same thoughts ran through my head. How completely unaware he was. I read the post and wanted to respond right off, but could not because of responsibilities I had going on.
That was probably a good thing :-).
So - Addfor20 - I, like vabeachgal want to congratulate you on you sticking to your treatment, and for having the guts to come here and post. I think its a VERY good thing that you read Melissa's book. I found it critical for getting through my own situation. However, I also have to agree with her on a few points that are negative.
I went back and read your other post so that i could better understand your perspective, and I can honestly say that I suspect your wife has - for a very very long time - tried to make things work and has tried to express her self to you. That you can see how your actions have contributed to this - when at the time you felt it was "none of her business" (because that is exactly what you are telling her when you are lying by omission), is very commendable. Its the first step of many to bettering yourself - regardless if your marriage is saved.
As for your question, I can answer from my perspective only, and its totally biased to my own situation, beliefs etc... - standard disclaimer here :-)
I can say that I had a very similar situation happen to me. A couple of years ago, my husband and I separated for a short time. During this time - our vows were in tact, he was taking a "time out" to work through some stuff that happened to him as a kid. He was staying with friends, and we still were in counseling together and working through the issues. We both agreed that we would not see other people, etc. He came back home after about a month and a half. He said his future was with me, and that he knew he wanted to work on things. After he was back for a few weeks, I found out he had contacted his ex girlfriend (from when he was young - but it doesnt matter) and asked to see her. He went to her home and spent time with her. He did this on the day we had a funeral for his step dad's sister. We were all at his parents home after the funeral, and just visiting and being there for the Step Dad, and suddenly he said he needed to leave, that he wanted to get back to where he was living early so that he didnt have to deal with weather, and he could prepare for the week's work. Turns out, he had been texting this woman and thats when he went to see her. I remember that night well - I had a REALLY bad feeling, and ended up texted him around 10pm asking if he was ok. He said he was at Walmart getting groceries for the week. I thought it was weird he was out that late, and I just really had such a bad feeling that something was going to happen to him.
I can honestly say that had I known this BEFORE he came back to our home, has I known he had done this - I would have not let him come back. I would have ended it right there. Even though he said it was innocent, I didnt believe him. He had lied to me so much at that point everything he said was suspect. Because he was already back in the home, and swore off all contact with this woman, even removed her from social media at my request - I decided to allow him to stay and continue to work on our marriage.
It might have seemed innocent to you - but it sure as hell didnt to your wife, I promise you that. And I am guessing that there were many years of emotional neglect and other 'hidden" things that have come to light that put your honor and character in question to her.
Now - that all being said - I DO think there is hope. But its going to take some extraordinary effort on your part - you will have to rise above your issues and put your focus on her. You have to work like a maniac on yourself to make sure you do not do the things that have cause her harm, and you will have to work like a maniac to fill her her "love bank" that you have no doubt emptied over the years with out giving back. I would for sure reccomend reading everyrthing you can get your hands on from Melissa, and I would also highly encourage you to read every bit of information on this website:
You need to show her you are committed to making changes and making things work. You need to both say it AND do it. And the most important part is that you DO WHAT YOU SAY. Dont say you are going to stick it out and then give up at the first sign of difficulty. Actions are everything. Read my posts, read V's posts, read Dede's posts, read Jenna's posts... all of us have been on the other side of your equation. DONT do what our husbands have done and you might have a chance.
But its going to take ownership, committment, and endurance. She wont believe you, I wouldnt. She wont believe you until you can prove it. And its going to be hard to prove it, since right now - you have proved to her you are unreliable up till now. But your original post - you really impressed me with your insight into your inner self. KEEP BUILDING ON THAT. You were 100% right about you maintaining your treatment no matter what. You need to continue to work on being the best you, you can be.
I disagree with your doctor though - and really recommend that article I sent as explanation why. You have not had any infidelity (I bet she thinks there has been deep in side though) - so build on that. Sadly - like V and several others, my marriage to my husband is coming to an end. Unlike you - he says he doesnt want a future with me, and is refusing treatment. He will be leaving very soon - and I will build my life up again. If my husband came here asking for help - I would think differently. If he put his ring back on as a symbol of him wanting to continue to create a life - then I might be interested in considering him staying. But right now - I am not. I have no desire to spend anymore of my life with someone who lives in denial and in a bubble of selfishness. Dont be like him.
I hope you saw my ammendment. I agree both inappropriate and hurtful to my wife. Lies by ommission. Thank you for that. I have struggled so much with it and sadly enough it hasn't resonated with me but it does make sense now. And I don't think that this behavior has anything to do with ADHD. I would love to read about "true apology"...I did look around, new to site and didn't find it.
Thank you again for your kindness, your thoughtful insight and for taking the time to help. I couldn't be more thankful. And I'm sorry for your pain and hurt. I hope you are able to find happiness very soon.
Vabeachgal, Because of then new comments here, I re-read what you wrote. And something REALLY stuck out to me...
"Someone on this board - help me out guys - posted some very thorough and eloquent comments on what is a true apology. It is very helpful information. I never received a real apology. It would have gone a long way. He explained that the "stakes are too high" and he "might get it wrong" that he "would work on it with the therapist". In short, he withheld the apology. It felt abusive. "
This is the kind of apology offered up by my husband as his 'Im sorry" for bailing on me. Because he "might" get it wrong, he refuses to try, because the stakes are too high, he is afraid to even try, and he also said he would get help - which he never did. Looking up therapists one afternoon doesnt count as "trying"....
Thats not an apology - its an excuse to be a coward while we are left having to be the brave ones cleaning up the mess they run away from. We have to be the ones to work through being betrayed and abandoned while they run off to what ever is easiest, while they meet their imeediate needs - we have to heal from sacrificing all of ourselves on their fake promises and manipulations keeping us on the hook just long enough...
I just spend my lunch time googling "How to forgive when there is no apology" hahahahaha
Trying to work through this one. I know it's important for me to work out. I know it will help me get through the next step of grieving but I have to confess I'm more than a little stuck at this point. No point in getting into my existential crisis right now.
I know, I know.. To err is human and to forgive divine but the 3 year old part of me doesn't wanna.
It would be so very lovely and helpful to have a genuine apology and a validation of emotions. Instead, right or wrong, I feel like there is no remorse.
On a more humorous note, since I find it necessary to try to find a chuckle every now and then.... my husband won't refill his meds but HE WILL order a testosterone supplement online. All righty then :(
Santorini, Stacey.... do it... on my way to Rome and beyond in a couple of weeks.
>>>I have not been unfaitthul to my wife but have had numerous issues because I exercise with women, one woman was younger, I texted with her and emailed her (all normal stuff) but I kept it from my wife. I just wasn't up to dealing with the jealousy. I resented it. I was doing "nothing wrong" but made her feel on the outside after she found out. My biggest ADHD contributors are inattentiveness>>>
you're describing the behavior of a friend of mine's H. He's inattentive to her, but gets his jollies out of flirting with other women. He hasn't been unfaithful but the truth is, his behavior and yours is done to make you all feel good. You all like the attention you're getting from these women.
Ask yourself...why is it that you can be inattentive to your wife, but likely very attentive to a woman you're emailing. She emails back and you probably promptly read it and respond. You're not inattentive with her, right?
Hell - I find it insulting when my husband is so caring and concerned for others and goes out of his way to help them, yet will stare at me like I am a monster from across the room when I am crying from heartache about loosing my mother. It boggles my mind that my husband can be huggy and touchy with others, but treats me like a hot stove - not to be touched unless forced. Am I THAT repulsive? Is it SO HARD to show me that same attention or care shown to others? Is it that horrible to him to give any of that back to me - when he expects love and adoration and smiles and "atta boys" all the time?
It amazed me to watch my husband come home after a long day, pet the dog at the door, walk RIGHT BY ME to go hug on his daughter, and greet her, ignoring me like I am nothing. And you know what? Even HE knew how shitty that was because he then walked over to me and "patted my head" saying hi. Damage was done. Damage has been done like that so much over 7 years that its like adding another papercut to the 1000 I have already. What does it matter?
And thats where I have to take it - because at this point, what DOES it matter any more. My last straw was bent, the camels back was broken, the dam cracked and the water flowed away. He doesnt care, he has his his own cares, wants, needs to focus on. He is leaving anyway, so I try my best not to spend much energy on it anymore.
Take heed Addfor20.... I know you are trying to figure out how to fix the situation you are in. Be careful and considerate of your wife, even in this stage if you want to make things work. You destroy love by these kinds of insults. I am very happy to know you see them for what they are now, but its time to make sure she knows you see it for what it is too. Put yourself in her shoes, try to grasp how insulted and hurt that made her feel when you paid that attention to someone other than her.
To salvage this - you will have to prove to her that you DO love her, and that you can be relied upon....not just in the short term. i know its hard for you beacuse of how you are wired. But you gotta step up or let her move on.
Not trying to jump on you - but really, knowing how deep this hurts will help you understand how hard you need to work to fix. I hope you do. Marriages you are IN are always better to save (except in abuse cases) than trying to scrap it and start over with someone else.
Wow. After reading what all of you have gone through, are going through. I see this in my relationship with my wife. She has always told me these things but I never really understood. Something about reading things after she tells me really makes it sink in. No idea why but anyways. After seeing all of your stories makes me think about us and how Ive been towards her and what shes going through. Just makes me think wow, theire explaining me. Not to the T but close. I really need to step up and get my ball rolling because she means everything to me and I have not done anything to show her this.
BS - I read your post on the other board, and I have been contemplating it and thinking about it since i really wanted to give an honest and genuine response. But reading this one - I just wanted to give you a little bit of advice (take it for what you want :-))
I am sure the right now your head is spinning with all these realizations. I am sure you are hurting from the hurt you have caused. I think this is a wonderful thing - because realization is the ONLY way you can move forward. Painful as it is. I dont know how far your wife is down the path of closure towards you, but I do believe that its NEVER too late. It will take some real focus and real honest work on your part though if you want to turn this around. With the ADHD tendencies, sometimes it can be hard to express yourself and say what you mean or want in the moment. I would kindly suggest that you take all these revalations you are having, and these deeply personal and retrospecitve looks at your past actions and attitudes towards your wife and put them to paper. Write them down to really get a clear picture in your mind of what has gone on, and then take that and show it to her. If you are able to still talk and have discussions, open one up - tell her you love her and that you can see where things have gone wrong. Let her know that you actually do want to work on things - not just say so. You need to understand (as does she) that there ARE things you can do to minimize the negative effects that ADHD can bring into a relationship. If you havent already, get Melissa's book and read it. Give it to your wife.
Most importantly you need to start showing her that love. You need to do everything in your power to show her you love her. Tell her your intentions (because if she doesnt know, then she might take it as trickery or more of the same). But trust me when I say this - don't make another single promise or committment and back out of it. Say what you mean, and mean what you say - and not just for that moment.
I think that you are very brave to venture into these forums, they can be very hard for people to read through - lots of anger, lots of hurt. But it is eye opening, and really - I am so impressed that you are here looking for help. That says a ton about you. It makes me think (just based on this post and the other) that you are genuinely shocked at how this has impacted your life, and that you really do want to make a change and save your relationship. Coming here is a big step, posting here is flat out awesome and certainly the right direction. This is going to be a long hard journey. There is another poster here who was seekning help too - and I tell you the same thing I told him. Tell your wife how you feel. Start doing what you can to PROVE to her you mean it.
If my husband had the guts you have - if he posted here for help, or if he started showing me that he really wanted to work on things, I would be open to that. But he would have to tell me. I dont think I would trust anything with out that stated commitment at this point. I suspect your wife might feel the same way I do based off your other post. Honestly - he could tell me that but if he doesnt back it up with action - I wouldnt trust what he says. Make sense? Words mean nothing unless there is action to back it up. Action is important, but unless there is some intention there - there is no way to take it, and after dealing with my ADHD husband for 7 years, I will ALWAYS assume the worst before the best until he teaches me different. I used to be the opposite, but after being burned soo many times, I just cant risk it anymore.
I hope this makes sense - I know its kinda rambly.... But I really hope you can turn things around and find love and and joy in your marriage.
Thank you. I only wish I had come across this site sooner. I do believe I haven't pushed her past the tipping point but I feel like she is there. I do like what you said about writing things down though. I had actually wrote a lengthy text after I posted that about seeing everyone else's story and seeing how it has effected her and apologized. I alsoo aid that I want to keep a journal where we both write down our feelings without fear of reprisal. I think that would help both if us but mainly me. Do that I can see it in writing since that's how it stands out to me most.
Dont let fear of where she is at stop you from doing this. You would be surprised at how genuine efforts with genuine words can change the situation. She probably will be super cautious, probably alot angry, and might not believe you at first with alot of things, but if you keep it up, and keep working on yourself, she might come around. I say might because I dont know her or you - and am only speaking from my own perspective. YOU initiating the conversation and YOU taking on the responsibility will be alot more effective than you can imagine. Part of the problem I have is that everything seems to be on me in this relationship. Its my effort, my compromise, my sacrifice that keeps things going while he just drifts along, and he will say he wants to stay when the sun is shining and he is getting what he wants and I have a constant smile on my face full of attaboys, but as soon as there is a little cloud, where something negative is going on either inside our relationship or outside it that affects us - he is all withdrawn, and ready to run, convinced that he just doesnt want to be married. If he were to show some simple initiative, show some small thing that says to me - I am working on this, I am honoring my commitment, I am a grown man and want to be in a grown up relationship - I would listen. Would I be angry about some things? Yes, but I could get over it as we BOTH worked on things. Would I be cautions? You freaking bet I would. I doubt i would able to fully have trust or faith in him for a long time, but that builds up over time. It gets built up every time he follows through with something he said he would do. It gets built up every time he acts responsibly for something in our home with out me having to ask him to deal with it. It gets built up every time he chooses to be kind to me. And it REALLY gets built up when he puts me first - above any others in his life, like his "friends". But those things happen so rarely, that I barely can even have my head turned to see what he is trying to say when he gives up.
Have fortitude... I am sure your wife spent many years trying to do right by you, trying to communicate with you, and trying to make things better between you. I imagine she spent years sacrificing what she wanted and needed in favor of your needs and wants, while you probably never even noticed. That is a long time of hurt to work through. And if she is to the point she says she is at - it will take her a while to get through that and be able to entrust her life to yours again. But dont be like my husband and give up because you arent getting it all back right off the bat. This is going to be an adjustment on both of your parts for expectations and efforts - and sorry man - but the biggest adjustment will have to come to you. I cant imagine she will be into meeting your needs for a little while. Not until she gets something from you to fill up her reserves.
If you are serious about this - I encourage you to read up about Love Languages, figure out what hers is - and work hard to develop skills so that you can speak her language to her. Also - let her know what yours is too. This will help with communication. Also - learn about the "Love Bank" concept. Its pretty simple, do things that deposit in that love bank and she will be more encouraged to do the same for you. For years, she has been running on empty, nothing deposited into her account while she has put deposits into yours over and over...
This is another website that I have found to be very helpful. www.marriagebuilders.com - I read that forum all the time, and its also helped me realize what I want and do not want anymore. its encouragine, and it shows how to rebuild love in a relationship and to get out of the fiction that "love" is a feeling.
I really want to see you succeed - I hope you stay in the forums here, and continue to work on these things. Keep looking at ways you can make a better you - FOR you. Even if you loose your wife (which I am suspecting you havent yet - butmight be very close) you will be better equipped to have another relationship in the future. its better to work on what you got though - statistics dont lie. :-)
Read Melissa's book - ask your wife too. Fight like a mad man to win her back. Show her that YOU think she is worth it.
Thanks. You all have been so helpful. I only hope your own situations get better and they realize what they are losing. Im just glad I did something before it was too late. Yes I will definitely read the book too.
Finances, ethics, and the ethical aspects of finances were always issues in my marriage. Several years ago, my now ex-H began working for his parents as their caregiver. Ex-H was paid for these services, but his father insisted on paying him in cash, "to keep it under the table." Ex-H suggested that we not report this income on our tax returns. I declined to go along with that suggestion. Cheating on our taxes could have harmed me both personally and professionally (I'm a lawyer). Next, I encouraged ex-H to get a caregiver agreement, which although not legally required, would protect the payments to ex-H from being treated as divestments for Medicaid purposes. Ex-H said he would do so but he didn't. Lack of this agreement meant ex-H might have to pay the caregiving income (marital property at the time) back to his parents. I felt increasingly threatened financially. I shared my concerns with ex-H. I asked him many times to get paid by check instead of in cash. But at least I knew what was going on and felt somewhat capable of protecting myself financially and legally. Well, I thought I knew what was going on. Late last year, ex-H mentioned an additional detail of his father's financial dealings, which was intertwined with ex-H's income and his job as a caregiver. It was yet another instance of his father engaging in something unusual to attempt to hide transactions. This was the last straw: I realized that I couldn't protect myself from things I didn't know about and that even the ones I knew about could hurt me, because clearly I had no influence over ex-H or his father.
I don't think ex-H and his dad were cheating to hurt me; but I and the harm to me were irrelevant to them.
My H is not abusive toward me. He is not deliberately mean. He is, however, completely unaware and uncaring about how his actions affect me. I don't feel safe with him any longer. We're at a tipping point where I won't have the resources to solve future problems. He's depleted enough assets and wasted enough time. I needed to know that he had rectified those tendencies and I could rest my mind and move on but that isn't the case. He scares me. After today, I know that he will continue to do things behind my back. I don't think he is doing anything to intentionally hurt me, but the result is often real or possible hurt. I can't make good decisions if I don't have all of the information. He will do whatever he wants regardless. He has often used the rationale "well, I didn't intend anything bad so why would it matter if .... I did X.... didn't tell you Y.... bought Z...... etc. " The intent isn't enough. It is actions. The actions have spoken. At this time, knowing the consequences that were clearly laid out, he took an action and made a choice by default. My therapist was right. He said explain what I need, make it explicit and then the choice is his.
The harm to me is irrelevant. Well said and accurate. I clearly have no influence over him.
We're going to sit down and talk now. However, not after he promised his entire day tomorrow to two friends (fence building and car repair assist). Sigh. He loves doing those things. I do not care to do housecleaning, laundry and grocery shopping. It's not fun and it's not a social activity.
He has often used the rationale "well, I didn't intend anything bad so why would it matter if .... I did X.... didn't tell you Y.... bought Z...... etc. "
It's weaseling away from taking adult responsibility for the impact and fall out of his chosen actions.
My last straw came a couple of months ago. My husband told me he only wanted to be married when "he was in a good mood".... I swear something inside my head snapped so hard it gave me whiplash. It was at that moment that I realized, after all his complaints that *he* felt out of control, and that I was controlling him - it was him all along controlling me. When he is unhappy, or we fight, or there is a crisis - he bails on me. Says "he is broken" "cant be a husband" "feels like I am controlling him".... and then after a while of me begging, pleading, doing what ever I can to make things better he says "my life is with you, my future is with you". Even after separations (2 at a couple of months each) - he comes back "KNOWING" that things can be hard, but that we have to stick together to work on things.
He told me when we first got together he could not tolerate someone who would want to break up at every fight. So I made a point to never do that (even though I DID at one time decide to leave him when he broke a MAJOR deal breaker for me). I found a place, was going to move out and he begged me to stay and said he would never do what he did again. Which of course he DID do again and again and again.... but we were in counseling by then and figuring out some root issues stuff. I never again did that. I DID however agree to it when he said HE wanted to leave - even filling out paperwork for divorce one time when he told me that a video game was more important to him than I was. So I said ok, if that is what you want, I will file - and I will leave you be with your game since you are "broken" and "cant be a husband" and playing that video game was more important to you than me. (its not like he "wasnt allowed" to play the game - I just asked that he control himself with how much time he spent there since he wasnt contributing to the house, wasnt spending time with his daughter and CERTAINLY was neglecting me - but asking is controlling to him).
ANyway... I digress. :-)
For me - a few months ago, hearing again for the 7th time in 7 years that he wanted to leave - I said go for it. I wont stop you, and I will no longer live any untruths. I refused to accept any more excuses, or him trying to say he "tried" when he didnt. I immediately put all my focus and care into managing myself, dealing with my own needs and planning a future with out him. Started working out, eating better, and making plans for *MY* future that didnt revolve around him. About a month after that, he started stepping up around the house (I posted about it a few times, esspecially in the Hope and Progress section). He just started a new job - so all the work he was doing around the house has stopped. He had even started working out, but that has stopped too. It doesnt matter because I am disconnecting my life from his bit by bit. I have invested enourmously for 7 years in every way for him. In hobbies, financially supporting him, and most of all - putting off my needs to take care of his with the expectation that he was going to continue to work on his own issues to be a better husband to me. I guess he got what he wanted, and doesnt want to bother with the responsibilities he has to me. And that is no longer acceptable. I will no longer be controlled by him dictating to me how life will be, with threats of abandonment. I would rather be alone, and so I will be. I took back control.
And it all started with "I only want to be married when I am in the mood"......
I can't tell you how many times I've heard this one: "I never thought about it." I've received this answer about so, so, so many things that it is the ultimate generic cop out weasel answer. This answer plus "I didn't intend anything bad" and "you can't put that on me, we never talked about it/I told you about it" represents my H's holy trinity of bogus excuses for shitty behavior.
Never thought about..... let's see.... helping me with the kids... paying attention to decision making... paying attention to me....helping at home.... sharing critical information with me... affects of his actions on me.... how something might hurt me.... why I might be upset about lies and broken promises....
I can't do that. I can't say I didn't bother with taxes because I never thought about it. Ooops. The kids aren't registered for college because I never thought about it. So, sorry, we don't have health care because I never thought about it. Dinner? I never thought about it? You mean you want to eat every day? Oh , you want my focused time and attention? Sorry, I never thought about it.
The translation was "I never thought about you."
It is to the point where I wonder if he ever thinks about anything - at all - ever. Besides work and people at work and what people at work are doing and about small victories and triumphs at work and how he saved the day at work.
"I didn't think about it" has always been delivered with a hang dog puppy look, lip stuck out like a petulant child, head down. Ugggh. It's like when a teacher asks you why you didn't do you homework and you respond with "I don't know." Why do people with ADHD persist in childish, immature behavior???? Is it because parents of ADHD kids overcompensate or the kids themselves choose not to try? Or they grow up expecting to be chastised and learn to let things just blow over and never really fix the issue? In my husband's case, I think growing up he expected and received unconditional love from his Mother. She would get upset but he would know that it would blow over and he would not have to correct any bad habits. She never enforced correction. It blows my mind. He tells me he was diagnosed with a LD in school but can't even tell me what kind of LD. His nephew has similar problems but he won't consult with his brother and sister in law to gain any insights. Like what is the diagnosis? His Mom passed away his last year of high school, but did she ever educate him/herself or advocate for him in any way? Help promote coaching strategies? A big nope.
Ooops. I forgot that I no longer ask why even though my mind works that way. I like to have answers.
My boyfriend (ADHD) and I have come a long way in improving our communication.
That said, I am still thinking about a conversation we had a few days ago. There are many things that I don't think he will ever understand from my point of view....
He said to me that he doesn't bring up certain people that he works with, or the conversations/interactions he has had with these people. I told him that I don't want him to censor what he says to me, whether it be in conversations about our relationship, or his work relationships.
My problem was not with the people he works with, but with the oversharing of details. He tells me in exacting detail about other people, what they say and do, what they look like, etc. All he has to do is leave out these details, and his conversations with me about his co workers would be a non issue. I chose to not go with him to his company picnic over the summer in part due to his oversharing, and me feeling uncomfortable around these people knowing what I know. Going to his Holiday party last December was something I didn't look forward to. I was glad when the evening was over.
I'm getting better at controlling how I react to situations and I find it has helped alot.
I told him that when it came to a certain person, I felt uncomfortable with him talking about her because he just had to go into detail about what a slut she is. (He went into great detail... that she shakes her butt at work, walks up behind the men sitting at their desks, presses her breasts into their backs, and rubs their shouders.) Apparently, that is how she gets her work done, she uses sex to get them to do her work, while she takes the credit. I didn't need to know that, and when I met her, it was awkward. Then there is the office Hot Chick that he recently unfriended on social media, saying that he thought she only "friended" him to get ahead at work. Of course she did. This young woman is a subordinate of his at work. Last summer he took her and another subordinate out on his sailboat to a "spring break on the lake" style party. He video'd the trip, complete with video of her gyrating in a bikini. I wouldn't have had a problem with the video if it had been fun between a friend and a girlfriend, partying. I thought it was unprofessional, given that she reports to him at work. If the other employees were to see the video he posted on Y.T, it wouldn't look right. Not to mention, if she'd been promoted over someone else, they might assume she must have done something sexual to get promoted.
He has also gone into too much detail about ex wives/girlfriends, and told me about how his brother/sister-in-law/sister/brother-in-law went skinny dipping years ago. He told me that his sister in law's breasts are implants, which is something I didn't need to know.
It has been a while since he brought up details like this. I don't want him to censor himself around me, but I don't think he realizes how disrespectful it is to me to give me details like this. He says that I shouldn't compare myself to other women.
Adele, my ex-H swings back and forth between not talking at all and oversharing. An example: On a few occasions when I asked him, very seriously, whether there was anything I could do to help him in his role as caregiver to his elderly parents, he said, "Kill them." I know he was not serious (although certainly him saying it reflects the stress of the situation), but I felt it was inappropriate for him to choose to say that to me. It potentially put me into the role of only person aside from ex-H himself with the knowledge of a psychologically stressful and possibly even dangerous situation. What was I supposed to do with that info?
This weekend, I had to run some errands with my daughter. I told my husband he didn't have to come along, because it was just the dentist, and then driving her 45 minutes, and waiting around for 2 hours while she rehearsed for some filming she is doing on Thursday, and then driving home for 45 minutes. Not the most exciting day, and as I often pressure my husband into doing things with me, I wanted to give him the day off.
Well, he wanted to come, he drove, we had a nice coffee together while she was at the dentist, and then he decided he wanted to go climbing while she was rehearsing. Part of this was my fault, since I didn't warn him that she was going to only be an hour or two. I just assumed (terrible, I know) that he would go along with the day I had planned.
So I agreed to go look for this climbing place, that we weren't sure was still open, but was nearby where she was rehearsing. We had a minor scrap in the car about him wanting to go drive down a private, no trespassing road (I told him I would get out of the car if he drove down it) and then we parked and went to find the trail. I found the trail, and picked my way down an overgrown path to find the climbs. He received and read an email from his boss who he had a huge argument with on Thursday. The email basically solidified his bosses boundaries while attempting a compromise. My husband does not compromise. I agree with his boss on the particular matter but always try to say something supportive to my husband because, let's face it, he has been criticized his entire life. So this issue was definitely under his skin. And while I don't show that I agree with his boss, I think my husband knows it deep down.
Anyhow, after ranting about the email, my husband took off to the top of the climbs (which were unclimbable as they hadn't been cleaned in years and were covered in moss) to look for anchors. At that point my daughter texted me that she was done. I told my husband that we needed to go and he ABSOLUTELY lost his mind. He went on a long rant. I stood my ground and told him we had to leave to pick her up. After a lot of snide comments, he agreed. We both walked out on separate trails to the road.
He was walking ahead of me, so in a repair attempt, I asked him to slow down so we could walk together. He refused. I should have just let it go there, but I hate the feeling of being left behind. So I asked him to just stop for 2 seconds so I could catch up. He stopped, and in a voice full of complete disgust and hatred, said "one.. two" and took off again. I had not caught up. My fault.... I told him that he was childish and being an asshole. He turned around and said quit being a victim. I should just walk faster.
I asked him to repeat what he said, thinking he would apologize. He turned and yelled "You are such a fucking victim".
That was the end for me. The last argument. The last repair attempt. I just walked away. We didn't speak all the way home and all that night. He went to bed on the couch (his choice) and I established my boundaries in two sentences:
1. That is emotional and verbal abuse and I will not tolerate it.
2. If you are unable to come up with a sincere apology, consider this the first date of our official separation (yes, asking for an apology is mandatory, as many non ADD spouses have pointed out, apologizing, is just not in his repertoire).
So, it's not the last straw in terms of divorce. I would only divorce for ongoing emotional abuse, physical abuse at anytime, and cheating, at anytime. It's the last straw in terms of my dependence on him. It's the last straw in terms of what I will tolerate. I will get a divorce if that is what needs to happen. So be it.
He called yesterday wanting to apologize. I will go home tomorrow and hear it. And forgive him. And move on. But I will call a spade a spade. And I will not willingly participate in abuse. I will walk out. I will stay with friends and family. And if I need to, I will leave.
My H and I are NOT on the same page. This does not make him a "bad" person....nor me. The end of a marriage IS NOT the end of the world. Psycho babble and religiosity have their place......and I am an avid thought and faith seeker......and in the end.......I have come to know ME and my H better....the GOOD, the bad, the ugly. I have learned to not see myself in my H's eyes.....unless and until he chooses to see himself AND THEN I will gladly SUPPORT him.......but as far as "saving" the marriage?........bottom line?.......it takes TWO to have a marriage ........and more than love there is RESPECT.....anything other than that is NOT a marriage.
Lisa, this is an important phrase. I have learned to not see myself in my H's eyes. I had not been respecting myself because I was not being respected by the one who promised to love me....living with me. In my H's eyes, it seems to me, I am not much more than a bother, a dog, a housekeeper. And I don't respect him either anymore. I see him as an imp, a clown, a rebellious teenager.
I have been working lately, being a better friend to myself and learning how to enjoy my time with myself. We live in the country, in winter, working from a home-based business, it gets lonely. I had been needy for companionship and feeling like the victim. Now I am learning to content myself with my own company and keeping a lookout for opportunities for communication and connection with the world at large.
Many of us on a site like this are in need of connection and companionship.....or we wouldn't be here.
Good point. I have been working hard on the very thing you are describing. I was seeing myself as I was reflected in my husband and it wasn't a good reflection. He wasn't valuing me so it was hard to value myself.
It's funny that you posted this just now, because I was just thinking that very same thing .... that I no longer wanted to be in a position where my husband made me feel bad.
I've been working very hard to bring good and supportive people into my life and it's been great.
But it was also a turning point. I found the edge of what I was able to tolerate, and I stopped trying so hard to make our relationship work.
Thank you for your words. I stopped being the scapegoat to my husbands anger and problems. I stopped reacting and left him to deal with his own mess. I am doing the best I can. I will try to remember not to see myself in his eyes.
The problem is that I have forgotten a large part of who I am and what I stand for. But that will come. Most days are happy now, with or without him. More will come. Definitely in need of connection and companionship. Definitely this place helped lift me out of the hopeless mess I was in before. Whenever I get lost, I come here.
Live your life from your heart or you may regret your life. I thought I had to obey the rules as I was taught.....that was my mistake....and now it is hard to know my heart and trust my self. My message to you.... listen to and obey your heart.
I didn't want my children to see their father cussing, angry. I didn't want them to see their father being stupid and doing stupid things...so I shielded them, enabling H, with the hope and faith that, with my support, my H would grow and learn and appreciate me and the family. What my children SAW was a mother who compromised, sacrificed and was frustrated and worked too hard and lost her joy of life. A drinking, joking father who things worked out OK for him. All he seems to want is to do his own thing.
Let your children see a strong person who connects with people who appreciate her and who can speak up in truth and dignity. It is harder to show this to your children after than are grown because they saw all the compromises and sacrifices that were made when they were young. And they had to compromise, and they learned to have a blind eye, with you.
He had so little awareness and responsibility to our marriage that he said these words out loud to me: "I don't need to make any money because I don't spend any money."
He had so little awareness and responsibility to our marriage that he said these words out loud to me: "If I were you I would have left me a long time ago."
He had so little awareness and responsibility to our marriage that he said these words out loud to me: "What have you ever done for me?"
Live your life from your heart or you may regret your life.
He said these words to me: "If I never thought I would make it this far, how do you think I could attend to you and your needs or pay attention to you or your future? You know I have a problem."
Why get married then? Why pursue me? Why drag someone else down except for self serving reasons?
I was also pursued by H and I held out for a long time. I thought the pursuit was a strength....tenacity. I can't tell you what it was that fueled his pursuit of me. Maybe it was nothing more than sexual impulse that he was pursuing (selling himself) for. And I read into it, love, romance and family. The pursuit stopped and the "him running away from", "him putting up boundaries" started right after we got married. I joined a team, H declared war.
Specifically involving
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Specifically involving communication or generally?
Generally. My issue today is
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Generally. My issue today is, on it's surface related to communication, but more generally related to a desire to not live parallel lives within a marriage without accountability to one another. I see that this is how it is and I no longer hold hope that I will be considered as a partner with a voice. I don't care to participate any longer. It's not how I view a marriage and I deserve better. This is 2016, not 1916. H's behavior, unrelated to ADHD, suggests a shall we say "retro" view of marriage. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to even uphold the standards of an older, more traditional version of marriage. He hasn't led well if that was his intention and he has deliberately stonewalled and sandbagged me to the point where I cannot be effective.
not one thing, a series of realizations
Submitted by dvance on
My last straw has not been one big AH-HA moment but rather a series of smaller realizations followed by my acceptance. I just don't know how much more I can give up. I have given up the idea that I come first. I have given up the idea that we could have real conversations, like a give and take, not just me talking and him getting defensive. I have given up thinking I could get help with the financial decisions. I have given up expecting any follow through on anything he says he is going to do. I have given up expecting him to mature and act his age. I have given up believing the things he says, like what time he will be home. I have given up the idea of loyalty--the other three women the past four years taught me that. I have given up consistent answers to texts during the day so I quit sending them. So if I accept all his limitations and stop expecting things he is not capable of, what is left? Why be with someone if they cannot uphold their end of the deal? If I have to manage the day to day minutiae of life and find support for myself from other friends and do my hobbies or the things I love alone, then really, what's the point of being married? That is where I am at. I have one child going to college next year and another two years later and then what? We have nothing to talk about now when there are kids between us, what in the world will we talk about when there is nobody to hold us together? The things I love--long walks by the lake, yoga, swimming, going out to dinner, opera--we don't do any of those things together. I do those things alone or with girlfriends. When something good happens, my DH is not the first person I want to share it with. When I need advice, he is not the first person I ask. In fact, usually he never has any idea there even was a problem or something on my mind. How bizarre is that? It makes me so sad for the amount of time I have wasted with him. If I had to point to a true last straw, it would be the third woman that he sat in a therapy session and lied to me about. I had fun with that one though--she kept emailing DH and once tried to friend my oldest son on Facebook so I emailed her and offered to meet her and answer whatever questions she had. I told her she was most welcome to DH but not my boys. And she forwarded it to DH. Poor thing--he had been lying to me for weeks that he was in contact with her and then she forwarded my email to him, like I figured she would, and he didn't know what to say to me that wouldn't give it away that he was in regular contact with her. That was fun actually. In any case, I know I can live without him, so what do I need him for? It's really sad and lonely.
what happened?
Submitted by addfor20 on
I'm the ADHD guy. I was recently diagnosed....one week ago. I'm not on medication yet. Your lack of hope seems similar to my wife who recently filed for divorce. She did this about a month before my diagnosis. I read Melissa Orlov's book, it is our relationship, for the most part, in a book. I'm now seeking treatment (two weeks in) with a different psychologist who has great knowledge of ADHD and relationships. I have not been unfaitthul to my wife but have had numerous issues because I exercise with women, one woman was younger, I texted with her and emailed her (all normal stuff) but I kept it from my wife. I just wasn't up to dealing with the jealousy. I resented it. I was doing "nothing wrong" but made her feel on the outside after she found out. My biggest ADHD contributors are inattentiveness (you don't love me, you hate me, you're not interested in what I do, who I am) and spontaneous/impulsive behavior...I've done some really stupid stuff without really thinking about it. I just want to know if you survived and knowing what you know about me, would you have given ME a chance, to work with me? After being so fed up, what would have made you say, "ok, I'll try to go forward"? I'm sorry you have problems and hope you are ok.
I want to edit this by saying that while I did feel like I was doing "nothing wrong" as my relations were platonic, I realized after time...and wish it didn't take me as much time as it did...that my behavior was inappropriate and I was very sorry to have hurt her like I did.
Quick word here
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Thanks for following up and checking on the situation. Congratulations on moving forward in treatment. I hope everything goes well with you.
This is quick and very off the cuff.
There isn't "one thing". You need to ask your wife this question. However, I suspect she has already told you very explicitly what she needs over the years.
My husband could have said those words to me. He told me he wasn't doing anything/didn't do anything. Hid the behavior because he didn't want to argue with me. He told me it was not big deal and "just b.s.". He repeated the behavior after knowing it hurt me. If he didn't think he was doing anything wrong or didn't intend to hurt me, what's the big deal?
I agree with other posters in saying that it is inappropriate and disrespectful behavior, especially in light of general inattentiveness, as was the case with my husband. Of course it hurts if you pay attention to other women and ignore your wife. My husband told me how I felt. He didn't say "jealous" but he did say things like I paid attention to things that didn't matter or was insecure... etc. He labeled my feelings without attempting to understand what I was actually feeling.
I resented, every bit as much as the inappropriate actions, that my husband was telling me how I felt. I felt a lot of things. Among them:
I FELT betrayed and manipulated.
I FELT what else is he hiding if this is all I could find by accident?
I FELT unappreciated and not valued or loved.
I FELT invisible, unheard, unnoticed.
I FELT angry.
I FELT disappointed in him.
I FELT actual shame.
I FELT disgust toward him.
I FELT appalled.
I FELT that with his impulsive nature, that continued use of these sites and particpating in these actions was a slippery slope. Eventually, someone would act inappropriately and "real" harm would be done, if not already.
I FELT that I couldn't trust him and that he lied to me. Lies by omission count.
I FELT that I didn't want to wait around until I was the woman who was actually cheated on if it hadn't already occurred.
I FELT that he didn't take any responsibility for the state of our marriage and made excuses for very poor behavior.
I FELT that I no longer wanted to be "that woman" who was perpetually neglected and hurt.
As you can see, I didn't feel any of the emotions that my husband attributed to me. I didn't feel insecure or controlling. I didn't want to control him; I wanted him to act like a responsible husband.
Someone on this board - help me out guys - posted some very thorough and eloquent comments on what is a true apology. It is very helpful information. I never received a real apology. It would have gone a long way. He explained that the "stakes are too high" and he "might get it wrong" that he "would work on it with the therapist". In short, he withheld the apology. It felt abusive.
I'm sorry, my bad, but I didn't want to deal with you I just wanted to do what I wanted to do without accountability. Nope, that won't cut it. That's not an apology. It's an excuse.
One thing that MIGHT help is to have a clear understanding of how she felt and the pain she has endured. You should talk to your counselor to request help with this. You might also consider figuring out what you get out of this behavior? Why do you feel it necessary to be flirtatious and push those boundaries of marriage? You're getting something out of it or you wouldn't do it. If I am overly flirtatious with someone, what I get out of besides a temporary high is a huge mountain of guilt over my behavior. Even with a crappy marriage where some people have told me that I should "do" whatever I want to at this point, I can't. Get it? I know I did something wrong and something that might hurt my spouse.
Anyway, I gave two years worth of chances. I found more lies and more inappropriate activity so we are done. He didn't stick with therapy and he stopped taking the meds.
Vabeachgal, as always -
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Vabeachgal, as always - sometimes I think you have read my mind, somehow captures my own deepest thoughts with your posts. While our circumstance is just slightly different - those feelings you have, I share them.
Honestly - when I read Addfor20's post, most of those same thoughts ran through my head. How completely unaware he was. I read the post and wanted to respond right off, but could not because of responsibilities I had going on.
That was probably a good thing :-).
So - Addfor20 - I, like vabeachgal want to congratulate you on you sticking to your treatment, and for having the guts to come here and post. I think its a VERY good thing that you read Melissa's book. I found it critical for getting through my own situation. However, I also have to agree with her on a few points that are negative.
I went back and read your other post so that i could better understand your perspective, and I can honestly say that I suspect your wife has - for a very very long time - tried to make things work and has tried to express her self to you. That you can see how your actions have contributed to this - when at the time you felt it was "none of her business" (because that is exactly what you are telling her when you are lying by omission), is very commendable. Its the first step of many to bettering yourself - regardless if your marriage is saved.
As for your question, I can answer from my perspective only, and its totally biased to my own situation, beliefs etc... - standard disclaimer here :-)
I can say that I had a very similar situation happen to me. A couple of years ago, my husband and I separated for a short time. During this time - our vows were in tact, he was taking a "time out" to work through some stuff that happened to him as a kid. He was staying with friends, and we still were in counseling together and working through the issues. We both agreed that we would not see other people, etc. He came back home after about a month and a half. He said his future was with me, and that he knew he wanted to work on things. After he was back for a few weeks, I found out he had contacted his ex girlfriend (from when he was young - but it doesnt matter) and asked to see her. He went to her home and spent time with her. He did this on the day we had a funeral for his step dad's sister. We were all at his parents home after the funeral, and just visiting and being there for the Step Dad, and suddenly he said he needed to leave, that he wanted to get back to where he was living early so that he didnt have to deal with weather, and he could prepare for the week's work. Turns out, he had been texting this woman and thats when he went to see her. I remember that night well - I had a REALLY bad feeling, and ended up texted him around 10pm asking if he was ok. He said he was at Walmart getting groceries for the week. I thought it was weird he was out that late, and I just really had such a bad feeling that something was going to happen to him.
I can honestly say that had I known this BEFORE he came back to our home, has I known he had done this - I would have not let him come back. I would have ended it right there. Even though he said it was innocent, I didnt believe him. He had lied to me so much at that point everything he said was suspect. Because he was already back in the home, and swore off all contact with this woman, even removed her from social media at my request - I decided to allow him to stay and continue to work on our marriage.
It might have seemed innocent to you - but it sure as hell didnt to your wife, I promise you that. And I am guessing that there were many years of emotional neglect and other 'hidden" things that have come to light that put your honor and character in question to her.
Now - that all being said - I DO think there is hope. But its going to take some extraordinary effort on your part - you will have to rise above your issues and put your focus on her. You have to work like a maniac on yourself to make sure you do not do the things that have cause her harm, and you will have to work like a maniac to fill her her "love bank" that you have no doubt emptied over the years with out giving back. I would for sure reccomend reading everyrthing you can get your hands on from Melissa, and I would also highly encourage you to read every bit of information on this website:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_summary.html (some basic concepts on restoring love into a marriage)
You need to show her you are committed to making changes and making things work. You need to both say it AND do it. And the most important part is that you DO WHAT YOU SAY. Dont say you are going to stick it out and then give up at the first sign of difficulty. Actions are everything. Read my posts, read V's posts, read Dede's posts, read Jenna's posts... all of us have been on the other side of your equation. DONT do what our husbands have done and you might have a chance.
But its going to take ownership, committment, and endurance. She wont believe you, I wouldnt. She wont believe you until you can prove it. And its going to be hard to prove it, since right now - you have proved to her you are unreliable up till now. But your original post - you really impressed me with your insight into your inner self. KEEP BUILDING ON THAT. You were 100% right about you maintaining your treatment no matter what. You need to continue to work on being the best you, you can be.
I disagree with your doctor though - and really recommend that article I sent as explanation why. You have not had any infidelity (I bet she thinks there has been deep in side though) - so build on that. Sadly - like V and several others, my marriage to my husband is coming to an end. Unlike you - he says he doesnt want a future with me, and is refusing treatment. He will be leaving very soon - and I will build my life up again. If my husband came here asking for help - I would think differently. If he put his ring back on as a symbol of him wanting to continue to create a life - then I might be interested in considering him staying. But right now - I am not. I have no desire to spend anymore of my life with someone who lives in denial and in a bubble of selfishness. Dont be like him.
Thank you
Submitted by addfor20 on
I hope you saw my ammendment. I agree both inappropriate and hurtful to my wife. Lies by ommission. Thank you for that. I have struggled so much with it and sadly enough it hasn't resonated with me but it does make sense now. And I don't think that this behavior has anything to do with ADHD. I would love to read about "true apology"...I did look around, new to site and didn't find it.
Thank you again for your kindness, your thoughtful insight and for taking the time to help. I couldn't be more thankful. And I'm sorry for your pain and hurt. I hope you are able to find happiness very soon.
Empathy Remorse and Real Apologies
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I think it's under this thread.
Re-reading, additional thoughts...
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Vabeachgal, Because of then new comments here, I re-read what you wrote. And something REALLY stuck out to me...
"Someone on this board - help me out guys - posted some very thorough and eloquent comments on what is a true apology. It is very helpful information. I never received a real apology. It would have gone a long way. He explained that the "stakes are too high" and he "might get it wrong" that he "would work on it with the therapist". In short, he withheld the apology. It felt abusive. "
This is the kind of apology offered up by my husband as his 'Im sorry" for bailing on me. Because he "might" get it wrong, he refuses to try, because the stakes are too high, he is afraid to even try, and he also said he would get help - which he never did. Looking up therapists one afternoon doesnt count as "trying"....
Thats not an apology - its an excuse to be a coward while we are left having to be the brave ones cleaning up the mess they run away from. We have to be the ones to work through being betrayed and abandoned while they run off to what ever is easiest, while they meet their imeediate needs - we have to heal from sacrificing all of ourselves on their fake promises and manipulations keeping us on the hook just long enough...
Perfect timing, Stacey.
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Perfect timing, Stacey.
I just spend my lunch time googling "How to forgive when there is no apology" hahahahaha
Trying to work through this one. I know it's important for me to work out. I know it will help me get through the next step of grieving but I have to confess I'm more than a little stuck at this point. No point in getting into my existential crisis right now.
I know, I know.. To err is human and to forgive divine but the 3 year old part of me doesn't wanna.
It would be so very lovely and helpful to have a genuine apology and a validation of emotions. Instead, right or wrong, I feel like there is no remorse.
On a more humorous note, since I find it necessary to try to find a chuckle every now and then.... my husband won't refill his meds but HE WILL order a testosterone supplement online. All righty then :(
Santorini, Stacey.... do it... on my way to Rome and beyond in a couple of weeks.
>>>I have not been unfaitthul
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>>>I have not been unfaitthul to my wife but have had numerous issues because I exercise with women, one woman was younger, I texted with her and emailed her (all normal stuff) but I kept it from my wife. I just wasn't up to dealing with the jealousy. I resented it. I was doing "nothing wrong" but made her feel on the outside after she found out. My biggest ADHD contributors are inattentiveness>>>
you're describing the behavior of a friend of mine's H. He's inattentive to her, but gets his jollies out of flirting with other women. He hasn't been unfaithful but the truth is, his behavior and yours is done to make you all feel good. You all like the attention you're getting from these women.
Ask yourself...why is it that you can be inattentive to your wife, but likely very attentive to a woman you're emailing. She emails back and you probably promptly read it and respond. You're not inattentive with her, right?
How insulting that is to your wife.
Overwhelmed - YOU NAILED IT!
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Overwhelmed - YOU NAILED IT! It IS insulting!
Hell - I find it insulting when my husband is so caring and concerned for others and goes out of his way to help them, yet will stare at me like I am a monster from across the room when I am crying from heartache about loosing my mother. It boggles my mind that my husband can be huggy and touchy with others, but treats me like a hot stove - not to be touched unless forced. Am I THAT repulsive? Is it SO HARD to show me that same attention or care shown to others? Is it that horrible to him to give any of that back to me - when he expects love and adoration and smiles and "atta boys" all the time?
It amazed me to watch my husband come home after a long day, pet the dog at the door, walk RIGHT BY ME to go hug on his daughter, and greet her, ignoring me like I am nothing. And you know what? Even HE knew how shitty that was because he then walked over to me and "patted my head" saying hi. Damage was done. Damage has been done like that so much over 7 years that its like adding another papercut to the 1000 I have already. What does it matter?
And thats where I have to take it - because at this point, what DOES it matter any more. My last straw was bent, the camels back was broken, the dam cracked and the water flowed away. He doesnt care, he has his his own cares, wants, needs to focus on. He is leaving anyway, so I try my best not to spend much energy on it anymore.
Take heed Addfor20.... I know you are trying to figure out how to fix the situation you are in. Be careful and considerate of your wife, even in this stage if you want to make things work. You destroy love by these kinds of insults. I am very happy to know you see them for what they are now, but its time to make sure she knows you see it for what it is too. Put yourself in her shoes, try to grasp how insulted and hurt that made her feel when you paid that attention to someone other than her.
To salvage this - you will have to prove to her that you DO love her, and that you can be relied upon....not just in the short term. i know its hard for you beacuse of how you are wired. But you gotta step up or let her move on.
Not trying to jump on you - but really, knowing how deep this hurts will help you understand how hard you need to work to fix. I hope you do. Marriages you are IN are always better to save (except in abuse cases) than trying to scrap it and start over with someone else.
WOW
Submitted by BS on
Wow. After reading what all of you have gone through, are going through. I see this in my relationship with my wife. She has always told me these things but I never really understood. Something about reading things after she tells me really makes it sink in. No idea why but anyways. After seeing all of your stories makes me think about us and how Ive been towards her and what shes going through. Just makes me think wow, theire explaining me. Not to the T but close. I really need to step up and get my ball rolling because she means everything to me and I have not done anything to show her this.
BS - I read your post on the
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
BS - I read your post on the other board, and I have been contemplating it and thinking about it since i really wanted to give an honest and genuine response. But reading this one - I just wanted to give you a little bit of advice (take it for what you want :-))
I am sure the right now your head is spinning with all these realizations. I am sure you are hurting from the hurt you have caused. I think this is a wonderful thing - because realization is the ONLY way you can move forward. Painful as it is. I dont know how far your wife is down the path of closure towards you, but I do believe that its NEVER too late. It will take some real focus and real honest work on your part though if you want to turn this around. With the ADHD tendencies, sometimes it can be hard to express yourself and say what you mean or want in the moment. I would kindly suggest that you take all these revalations you are having, and these deeply personal and retrospecitve looks at your past actions and attitudes towards your wife and put them to paper. Write them down to really get a clear picture in your mind of what has gone on, and then take that and show it to her. If you are able to still talk and have discussions, open one up - tell her you love her and that you can see where things have gone wrong. Let her know that you actually do want to work on things - not just say so. You need to understand (as does she) that there ARE things you can do to minimize the negative effects that ADHD can bring into a relationship. If you havent already, get Melissa's book and read it. Give it to your wife.
Most importantly you need to start showing her that love. You need to do everything in your power to show her you love her. Tell her your intentions (because if she doesnt know, then she might take it as trickery or more of the same). But trust me when I say this - don't make another single promise or committment and back out of it. Say what you mean, and mean what you say - and not just for that moment.
I think that you are very brave to venture into these forums, they can be very hard for people to read through - lots of anger, lots of hurt. But it is eye opening, and really - I am so impressed that you are here looking for help. That says a ton about you. It makes me think (just based on this post and the other) that you are genuinely shocked at how this has impacted your life, and that you really do want to make a change and save your relationship. Coming here is a big step, posting here is flat out awesome and certainly the right direction. This is going to be a long hard journey. There is another poster here who was seekning help too - and I tell you the same thing I told him. Tell your wife how you feel. Start doing what you can to PROVE to her you mean it.
If my husband had the guts you have - if he posted here for help, or if he started showing me that he really wanted to work on things, I would be open to that. But he would have to tell me. I dont think I would trust anything with out that stated commitment at this point. I suspect your wife might feel the same way I do based off your other post. Honestly - he could tell me that but if he doesnt back it up with action - I wouldnt trust what he says. Make sense? Words mean nothing unless there is action to back it up. Action is important, but unless there is some intention there - there is no way to take it, and after dealing with my ADHD husband for 7 years, I will ALWAYS assume the worst before the best until he teaches me different. I used to be the opposite, but after being burned soo many times, I just cant risk it anymore.
I hope this makes sense - I know its kinda rambly.... But I really hope you can turn things around and find love and and joy in your marriage.
Thank you. I only wish I had
Submitted by BS on
Thank you. I only wish I had come across this site sooner. I do believe I haven't pushed her past the tipping point but I feel like she is there. I do like what you said about writing things down though. I had actually wrote a lengthy text after I posted that about seeing everyone else's story and seeing how it has effected her and apologized. I alsoo aid that I want to keep a journal where we both write down our feelings without fear of reprisal. I think that would help both if us but mainly me. Do that I can see it in writing since that's how it stands out to me most.
Dont let fear of where she is
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Dont let fear of where she is at stop you from doing this. You would be surprised at how genuine efforts with genuine words can change the situation. She probably will be super cautious, probably alot angry, and might not believe you at first with alot of things, but if you keep it up, and keep working on yourself, she might come around. I say might because I dont know her or you - and am only speaking from my own perspective. YOU initiating the conversation and YOU taking on the responsibility will be alot more effective than you can imagine. Part of the problem I have is that everything seems to be on me in this relationship. Its my effort, my compromise, my sacrifice that keeps things going while he just drifts along, and he will say he wants to stay when the sun is shining and he is getting what he wants and I have a constant smile on my face full of attaboys, but as soon as there is a little cloud, where something negative is going on either inside our relationship or outside it that affects us - he is all withdrawn, and ready to run, convinced that he just doesnt want to be married. If he were to show some simple initiative, show some small thing that says to me - I am working on this, I am honoring my commitment, I am a grown man and want to be in a grown up relationship - I would listen. Would I be angry about some things? Yes, but I could get over it as we BOTH worked on things. Would I be cautions? You freaking bet I would. I doubt i would able to fully have trust or faith in him for a long time, but that builds up over time. It gets built up every time he follows through with something he said he would do. It gets built up every time he acts responsibly for something in our home with out me having to ask him to deal with it. It gets built up every time he chooses to be kind to me. And it REALLY gets built up when he puts me first - above any others in his life, like his "friends". But those things happen so rarely, that I barely can even have my head turned to see what he is trying to say when he gives up.
Have fortitude... I am sure your wife spent many years trying to do right by you, trying to communicate with you, and trying to make things better between you. I imagine she spent years sacrificing what she wanted and needed in favor of your needs and wants, while you probably never even noticed. That is a long time of hurt to work through. And if she is to the point she says she is at - it will take her a while to get through that and be able to entrust her life to yours again. But dont be like my husband and give up because you arent getting it all back right off the bat. This is going to be an adjustment on both of your parts for expectations and efforts - and sorry man - but the biggest adjustment will have to come to you. I cant imagine she will be into meeting your needs for a little while. Not until she gets something from you to fill up her reserves.
If you are serious about this - I encourage you to read up about Love Languages, figure out what hers is - and work hard to develop skills so that you can speak her language to her. Also - let her know what yours is too. This will help with communication. Also - learn about the "Love Bank" concept. Its pretty simple, do things that deposit in that love bank and she will be more encouraged to do the same for you. For years, she has been running on empty, nothing deposited into her account while she has put deposits into yours over and over...
This is another website that I have found to be very helpful. www.marriagebuilders.com - I read that forum all the time, and its also helped me realize what I want and do not want anymore. its encouragine, and it shows how to rebuild love in a relationship and to get out of the fiction that "love" is a feeling.
I really want to see you succeed - I hope you stay in the forums here, and continue to work on these things. Keep looking at ways you can make a better you - FOR you. Even if you loose your wife (which I am suspecting you havent yet - butmight be very close) you will be better equipped to have another relationship in the future. its better to work on what you got though - statistics dont lie. :-)
Read Melissa's book - ask your wife too. Fight like a mad man to win her back. Show her that YOU think she is worth it.
Thank you
Submitted by BS on
Thanks. You all have been so helpful. I only hope your own situations get better and they realize what they are losing. Im just glad I did something before it was too late. Yes I will definitely read the book too.
Finances, ethics, and the
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Finances, ethics, and the ethical aspects of finances were always issues in my marriage. Several years ago, my now ex-H began working for his parents as their caregiver. Ex-H was paid for these services, but his father insisted on paying him in cash, "to keep it under the table." Ex-H suggested that we not report this income on our tax returns. I declined to go along with that suggestion. Cheating on our taxes could have harmed me both personally and professionally (I'm a lawyer). Next, I encouraged ex-H to get a caregiver agreement, which although not legally required, would protect the payments to ex-H from being treated as divestments for Medicaid purposes. Ex-H said he would do so but he didn't. Lack of this agreement meant ex-H might have to pay the caregiving income (marital property at the time) back to his parents. I felt increasingly threatened financially. I shared my concerns with ex-H. I asked him many times to get paid by check instead of in cash. But at least I knew what was going on and felt somewhat capable of protecting myself financially and legally. Well, I thought I knew what was going on. Late last year, ex-H mentioned an additional detail of his father's financial dealings, which was intertwined with ex-H's income and his job as a caregiver. It was yet another instance of his father engaging in something unusual to attempt to hide transactions. This was the last straw: I realized that I couldn't protect myself from things I didn't know about and that even the ones I knew about could hurt me, because clearly I had no influence over ex-H or his father.
I don't think ex-H and his dad were cheating to hurt me; but I and the harm to me were irrelevant to them.
Exactly
Submitted by vabeachgal on
My H is not abusive toward me. He is not deliberately mean. He is, however, completely unaware and uncaring about how his actions affect me. I don't feel safe with him any longer. We're at a tipping point where I won't have the resources to solve future problems. He's depleted enough assets and wasted enough time. I needed to know that he had rectified those tendencies and I could rest my mind and move on but that isn't the case. He scares me. After today, I know that he will continue to do things behind my back. I don't think he is doing anything to intentionally hurt me, but the result is often real or possible hurt. I can't make good decisions if I don't have all of the information. He will do whatever he wants regardless. He has often used the rationale "well, I didn't intend anything bad so why would it matter if .... I did X.... didn't tell you Y.... bought Z...... etc. " The intent isn't enough. It is actions. The actions have spoken. At this time, knowing the consequences that were clearly laid out, he took an action and made a choice by default. My therapist was right. He said explain what I need, make it explicit and then the choice is his.
The harm to me is irrelevant. Well said and accurate. I clearly have no influence over him.
We're going to sit down and talk now. However, not after he promised his entire day tomorrow to two friends (fence building and car repair assist). Sigh. He loves doing those things. I do not care to do housecleaning, laundry and grocery shopping. It's not fun and it's not a social activity.
Sigh. This is such a cop out
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Sigh. This is such a cop out on his part
He has often used the rationale "well, I didn't intend anything bad so why would it matter if .... I did X.... didn't tell you Y.... bought Z...... etc. "
It's weaseling away from taking adult responsibility for the impact and fall out of his chosen actions.
The intent isn't enough. It is actions.
yes, it is.
Wishing you well.
Cant dance with someone who refuses to dance.
Hope he wakes up.
Amen to that. I have heard
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Amen to that. I have heard that cop out 10000000 million different ways and times. It has to be all about actions in my situation.
My Last Straw
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
My last straw came a couple of months ago. My husband told me he only wanted to be married when "he was in a good mood".... I swear something inside my head snapped so hard it gave me whiplash. It was at that moment that I realized, after all his complaints that *he* felt out of control, and that I was controlling him - it was him all along controlling me. When he is unhappy, or we fight, or there is a crisis - he bails on me. Says "he is broken" "cant be a husband" "feels like I am controlling him".... and then after a while of me begging, pleading, doing what ever I can to make things better he says "my life is with you, my future is with you". Even after separations (2 at a couple of months each) - he comes back "KNOWING" that things can be hard, but that we have to stick together to work on things.
He told me when we first got together he could not tolerate someone who would want to break up at every fight. So I made a point to never do that (even though I DID at one time decide to leave him when he broke a MAJOR deal breaker for me). I found a place, was going to move out and he begged me to stay and said he would never do what he did again. Which of course he DID do again and again and again.... but we were in counseling by then and figuring out some root issues stuff. I never again did that. I DID however agree to it when he said HE wanted to leave - even filling out paperwork for divorce one time when he told me that a video game was more important to him than I was. So I said ok, if that is what you want, I will file - and I will leave you be with your game since you are "broken" and "cant be a husband" and playing that video game was more important to you than me. (its not like he "wasnt allowed" to play the game - I just asked that he control himself with how much time he spent there since he wasnt contributing to the house, wasnt spending time with his daughter and CERTAINLY was neglecting me - but asking is controlling to him).
ANyway... I digress. :-)
For me - a few months ago, hearing again for the 7th time in 7 years that he wanted to leave - I said go for it. I wont stop you, and I will no longer live any untruths. I refused to accept any more excuses, or him trying to say he "tried" when he didnt. I immediately put all my focus and care into managing myself, dealing with my own needs and planning a future with out him. Started working out, eating better, and making plans for *MY* future that didnt revolve around him. About a month after that, he started stepping up around the house (I posted about it a few times, esspecially in the Hope and Progress section). He just started a new job - so all the work he was doing around the house has stopped. He had even started working out, but that has stopped too. It doesnt matter because I am disconnecting my life from his bit by bit. I have invested enourmously for 7 years in every way for him. In hobbies, financially supporting him, and most of all - putting off my needs to take care of his with the expectation that he was going to continue to work on his own issues to be a better husband to me. I guess he got what he wanted, and doesnt want to bother with the responsibilities he has to me. And that is no longer acceptable. I will no longer be controlled by him dictating to me how life will be, with threats of abandonment. I would rather be alone, and so I will be. I took back control.
And it all started with "I only want to be married when I am in the mood"......
I never thought about it
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I can't tell you how many times I've heard this one: "I never thought about it." I've received this answer about so, so, so many things that it is the ultimate generic cop out weasel answer. This answer plus "I didn't intend anything bad" and "you can't put that on me, we never talked about it/I told you about it" represents my H's holy trinity of bogus excuses for shitty behavior.
Never thought about..... let's see.... helping me with the kids... paying attention to decision making... paying attention to me....helping at home.... sharing critical information with me... affects of his actions on me.... how something might hurt me.... why I might be upset about lies and broken promises....
I can't do that. I can't say I didn't bother with taxes because I never thought about it. Ooops. The kids aren't registered for college because I never thought about it. So, sorry, we don't have health care because I never thought about it. Dinner? I never thought about it? You mean you want to eat every day? Oh , you want my focused time and attention? Sorry, I never thought about it.
The translation was "I never thought about you."
It is to the point where I wonder if he ever thinks about anything - at all - ever. Besides work and people at work and what people at work are doing and about small victories and triumphs at work and how he saved the day at work.
"I didn't think about it" has always been delivered with a hang dog puppy look, lip stuck out like a petulant child, head down. Ugggh. It's like when a teacher asks you why you didn't do you homework and you respond with "I don't know." Why do people with ADHD persist in childish, immature behavior???? Is it because parents of ADHD kids overcompensate or the kids themselves choose not to try? Or they grow up expecting to be chastised and learn to let things just blow over and never really fix the issue? In my husband's case, I think growing up he expected and received unconditional love from his Mother. She would get upset but he would know that it would blow over and he would not have to correct any bad habits. She never enforced correction. It blows my mind. He tells me he was diagnosed with a LD in school but can't even tell me what kind of LD. His nephew has similar problems but he won't consult with his brother and sister in law to gain any insights. Like what is the diagnosis? His Mom passed away his last year of high school, but did she ever educate him/herself or advocate for him in any way? Help promote coaching strategies? A big nope.
Ooops. I forgot that I no longer ask why even though my mind works that way. I like to have answers.
Not really a last straw....
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
My boyfriend (ADHD) and I have come a long way in improving our communication.
That said, I am still thinking about a conversation we had a few days ago. There are many things that I don't think he will ever understand from my point of view....
He said to me that he doesn't bring up certain people that he works with, or the conversations/interactions he has had with these people. I told him that I don't want him to censor what he says to me, whether it be in conversations about our relationship, or his work relationships.
My problem was not with the people he works with, but with the oversharing of details. He tells me in exacting detail about other people, what they say and do, what they look like, etc. All he has to do is leave out these details, and his conversations with me about his co workers would be a non issue. I chose to not go with him to his company picnic over the summer in part due to his oversharing, and me feeling uncomfortable around these people knowing what I know. Going to his Holiday party last December was something I didn't look forward to. I was glad when the evening was over.
I'm getting better at controlling how I react to situations and I find it has helped alot.
I told him that when it came to a certain person, I felt uncomfortable with him talking about her because he just had to go into detail about what a slut she is. (He went into great detail... that she shakes her butt at work, walks up behind the men sitting at their desks, presses her breasts into their backs, and rubs their shouders.) Apparently, that is how she gets her work done, she uses sex to get them to do her work, while she takes the credit. I didn't need to know that, and when I met her, it was awkward. Then there is the office Hot Chick that he recently unfriended on social media, saying that he thought she only "friended" him to get ahead at work. Of course she did. This young woman is a subordinate of his at work. Last summer he took her and another subordinate out on his sailboat to a "spring break on the lake" style party. He video'd the trip, complete with video of her gyrating in a bikini. I wouldn't have had a problem with the video if it had been fun between a friend and a girlfriend, partying. I thought it was unprofessional, given that she reports to him at work. If the other employees were to see the video he posted on Y.T, it wouldn't look right. Not to mention, if she'd been promoted over someone else, they might assume she must have done something sexual to get promoted.
He has also gone into too much detail about ex wives/girlfriends, and told me about how his brother/sister-in-law/sister/brother-in-law went skinny dipping years ago. He told me that his sister in law's breasts are implants, which is something I didn't need to know.
It has been a while since he brought up details like this. I don't want him to censor himself around me, but I don't think he realizes how disrespectful it is to me to give me details like this. He says that I shouldn't compare myself to other women.
I'm venting here, Thanks to whomever reads this.
Adele, my ex-H swings back
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Last Straw - Deferred
Submitted by DependentOrigination on
This weekend, I had to run some errands with my daughter. I told my husband he didn't have to come along, because it was just the dentist, and then driving her 45 minutes, and waiting around for 2 hours while she rehearsed for some filming she is doing on Thursday, and then driving home for 45 minutes. Not the most exciting day, and as I often pressure my husband into doing things with me, I wanted to give him the day off.
Well, he wanted to come, he drove, we had a nice coffee together while she was at the dentist, and then he decided he wanted to go climbing while she was rehearsing. Part of this was my fault, since I didn't warn him that she was going to only be an hour or two. I just assumed (terrible, I know) that he would go along with the day I had planned.
So I agreed to go look for this climbing place, that we weren't sure was still open, but was nearby where she was rehearsing. We had a minor scrap in the car about him wanting to go drive down a private, no trespassing road (I told him I would get out of the car if he drove down it) and then we parked and went to find the trail. I found the trail, and picked my way down an overgrown path to find the climbs. He received and read an email from his boss who he had a huge argument with on Thursday. The email basically solidified his bosses boundaries while attempting a compromise. My husband does not compromise. I agree with his boss on the particular matter but always try to say something supportive to my husband because, let's face it, he has been criticized his entire life. So this issue was definitely under his skin. And while I don't show that I agree with his boss, I think my husband knows it deep down.
Anyhow, after ranting about the email, my husband took off to the top of the climbs (which were unclimbable as they hadn't been cleaned in years and were covered in moss) to look for anchors. At that point my daughter texted me that she was done. I told my husband that we needed to go and he ABSOLUTELY lost his mind. He went on a long rant. I stood my ground and told him we had to leave to pick her up. After a lot of snide comments, he agreed. We both walked out on separate trails to the road.
He was walking ahead of me, so in a repair attempt, I asked him to slow down so we could walk together. He refused. I should have just let it go there, but I hate the feeling of being left behind. So I asked him to just stop for 2 seconds so I could catch up. He stopped, and in a voice full of complete disgust and hatred, said "one.. two" and took off again. I had not caught up. My fault.... I told him that he was childish and being an asshole. He turned around and said quit being a victim. I should just walk faster.
I asked him to repeat what he said, thinking he would apologize. He turned and yelled "You are such a fucking victim".
That was the end for me. The last argument. The last repair attempt. I just walked away. We didn't speak all the way home and all that night. He went to bed on the couch (his choice) and I established my boundaries in two sentences:
1. That is emotional and verbal abuse and I will not tolerate it.
2. If you are unable to come up with a sincere apology, consider this the first date of our official separation (yes, asking for an apology is mandatory, as many non ADD spouses have pointed out, apologizing, is just not in his repertoire).
So, it's not the last straw in terms of divorce. I would only divorce for ongoing emotional abuse, physical abuse at anytime, and cheating, at anytime. It's the last straw in terms of my dependence on him. It's the last straw in terms of what I will tolerate. I will get a divorce if that is what needs to happen. So be it.
He called yesterday wanting to apologize. I will go home tomorrow and hear it. And forgive him. And move on. But I will call a spade a spade. And I will not willingly participate in abuse. I will walk out. I will stay with friends and family. And if I need to, I will leave.
Lisa....boundaries.....
Submitted by Zapp10 on
I see myself in your words.
My H and I are NOT on the same page. This does not make him a "bad" person....nor me. The end of a marriage IS NOT the end of the world. Psycho babble and religiosity have their place......and I am an avid thought and faith seeker......and in the end.......I have come to know ME and my H better....the GOOD, the bad, the ugly. I have learned to not see myself in my H's eyes.....unless and until he chooses to see himself AND THEN I will gladly SUPPORT him.......but as far as "saving" the marriage?........bottom line?.......it takes TWO to have a marriage ........and more than love there is RESPECT.....anything other than that is NOT a marriage.
I have learned to not see myself in my H's eyes
Submitted by jennalemone on
Lisa, this is an important phrase. I have learned to not see myself in my H's eyes. I had not been respecting myself because I was not being respected by the one who promised to love me....living with me. In my H's eyes, it seems to me, I am not much more than a bother, a dog, a housekeeper. And I don't respect him either anymore. I see him as an imp, a clown, a rebellious teenager.
I have been working lately, being a better friend to myself and learning how to enjoy my time with myself. We live in the country, in winter, working from a home-based business, it gets lonely. I had been needy for companionship and feeling like the victim. Now I am learning to content myself with my own company and keeping a lookout for opportunities for communication and connection with the world at large.
Many of us on a site like this are in need of connection and companionship.....or we wouldn't be here.
Good point. I have been
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Good point. I have been working hard on the very thing you are describing. I was seeing myself as I was reflected in my husband and it wasn't a good reflection. He wasn't valuing me so it was hard to value myself.
It's funny that you posted this just now, because I was just thinking that very same thing .... that I no longer wanted to be in a position where my husband made me feel bad.
I've been working very hard to bring good and supportive people into my life and it's been great.
This was a particularly rough incident for me...
Submitted by DependentOrigination on
But it was also a turning point. I found the edge of what I was able to tolerate, and I stopped trying so hard to make our relationship work.
Thank you for your words. I stopped being the scapegoat to my husbands anger and problems. I stopped reacting and left him to deal with his own mess. I am doing the best I can. I will try to remember not to see myself in his eyes.
The problem is that I have forgotten a large part of who I am and what I stand for. But that will come. Most days are happy now, with or without him. More will come. Definitely in need of connection and companionship. Definitely this place helped lift me out of the hopeless mess I was in before. Whenever I get lost, I come here.
Thanks again.
L.
Awareness and responsibility are missing
Submitted by jennalemone on
Live your life from your heart or you may regret your life. I thought I had to obey the rules as I was taught.....that was my mistake....and now it is hard to know my heart and trust my self. My message to you.... listen to and obey your heart.
I didn't want my children to see their father cussing, angry. I didn't want them to see their father being stupid and doing stupid things...so I shielded them, enabling H, with the hope and faith that, with my support, my H would grow and learn and appreciate me and the family. What my children SAW was a mother who compromised, sacrificed and was frustrated and worked too hard and lost her joy of life. A drinking, joking father who things worked out OK for him. All he seems to want is to do his own thing.
Let your children see a strong person who connects with people who appreciate her and who can speak up in truth and dignity. It is harder to show this to your children after than are grown because they saw all the compromises and sacrifices that were made when they were young. And they had to compromise, and they learned to have a blind eye, with you.
He had so little awareness and responsibility to our marriage that he said these words out loud to me: "I don't need to make any money because I don't spend any money."
He had so little awareness and responsibility to our marriage that he said these words out loud to me: "If I were you I would have left me a long time ago."
He had so little awareness and responsibility to our marriage that he said these words out loud to me: "What have you ever done for me?"
Live your life from your heart or you may regret your life.
He said these words to me:
Submitted by vabeachgal on
He said these words to me: "If I never thought I would make it this far, how do you think I could attend to you and your needs or pay attention to you or your future? You know I have a problem."
Why get married then? Why pursue me? Why drag someone else down except for self serving reasons?
Youth and naivete
Submitted by jennalemone on
I was also pursued by H and I held out for a long time. I thought the pursuit was a strength....tenacity. I can't tell you what it was that fueled his pursuit of me. Maybe it was nothing more than sexual impulse that he was pursuing (selling himself) for. And I read into it, love, romance and family. The pursuit stopped and the "him running away from", "him putting up boundaries" started right after we got married. I joined a team, H declared war.