A 180 degree different situation

I am a 39 yr old married man that was diagnosed with ADD 8 years ago.  It was my, then girlfriend, now wife that suggested I get tested.  I will forever be thankful for that because it has helped me stabilize my life quite a bit.

The reason for my post is that my situation seems to be unique from most of what I have read.  I am the attention paying affectionate one in the relationship and she is the distant unaffectionate, non-validating, partner.  I am made to feel like a bother for wanting things that seem to be pretty normal to me.  i.e. some attention, some validation, etc.

Part of me thinks that I am just used to attracting people that cannot love me because I  think that is what I deserve.  Like most ADDers, I have low self esteem.  Sometimes I am so thankful that I have her.  She is very stable, which helps with instability career-wise.  I am currently laid off, but have been otherwise steadily employed.  But most times, I am just sad.  I love her so much, but sometimes I cannot overlook the seemingly obvious.  She just doesn't love me that much and I feel dead inside emotionally.  I am maybe more of a convenience to her.  She says she loves me, but I cannot see how someone that shows no affection, (not sex, affection) can say they love someone.  As long as it works for her, then she's fine, but any extra effort from her then she isn't really interested.

Sorry, I got off on a bit of a rant, I forgot my original point.  I guess this is the right place for that to happen.  Oh yes, I wanted to write in to let people know that while I have ADD, I don't really identify with the common marriage situation of being the distant husband.  I also, apparently wanted to vent.  Thanks for listening, sadly this is what it has come to, venting to anonymous strangers because my wife just doesn't give a sh*t and doesn't want to hear it.  What a sobering realization.

Hello, Frickinlonely-

You're gonna have to shorten that name a bit, takes too long to type- just kidding  : ).  Anyway, this is a good place to vent.  It has eased my loneliness to talk to others in similar situations.    Yes, that "sobering realization" is what brought me here also.  Your post sounds so sad;  I'm sorry this is happening to you.  

wow, that was quick

Thanks for the reply.  I was surprised they accepted that name.  I was kind of kidding. 

It's funny, after posting that I felt better because I vented, and now I feel terrible for writing it.  I love her, I really do.  I am just so tired of trying to get someone to care.  Ya know?  It's just humiliating and well.... frickinlonely.  I hope it works out, but she is emotionally unavailable, and she knows it, but I don't think she can break free from it. 

Frick re: emotionally unavailable

I think my husband has ADD- will not get formally assessed.  The only emotion available to him is his anger.  It is always near at hand.  And it has made me become emotionally unavailable to him.  Don't feel too terrible.  I have said a lot of terrible things on this forum (yikes!).  And I feel eons better as soon as I get them out.  I certainly can't be doing all this emoting at home- that will get me punished- not that he needs a reason.  You never know what someone can break free from, given sufficient motivation.  Somehow, I seem to feel more optimistic about wives being able to change than husbands.  Don't know why...

It is normal to feel guilty

It is normal to feel guilty about purging your feelings about someone you love. I completely understand. I think we all do. I also feel it is extremely necessary for survival sometimes. God has put some very valuable people in my life that give me advice, let me rant, and keep me in line with what they know my goals are...to make my marriage 'til death do us part', to be a better wife/mother/friend, and to grow closer to God. This forum is one of those 'God sends'.

One thing I was wondering..has your wife always been shut off like this?

Sherri and Frick re: place to vent

Agree.  This is an excellent place to vent.  Frick, welcome to the  ADHD version of "The Breakfast Club" (ignore me today; I have taken leave of my senses...).

Thanks

Thanks you!!  It's nice to have a little support.  And yes, a place to vent.  When your spouse is just "too busy" (totally self-imposed) you don't have anyone to talk to if your a guy.  Guys don't really talk to each other about this kind of stuff, at least in any sort of supportive way.  So, thanks.

Something weird happened a couple days ago.  Something in me just kind of...I don't know...died, I think.  I just don't have a loving feeling for my wife.  I still  have anger about her prioritizing everything else in the world over me, but the part that looked at her lovingly isn't really there anymore.  It's just, kind of a void.  I hate to say it, but it is kind of liberating.  I swear I was not  trying to ignore her or be cold this week, I just really didn't care about her.  Surprise, she was very attentive for a couple days, suddenly, she was trying to make plans with me.  I just really am not that interested anymore.  I may have crossed over some sort of threshold.  But now, she is acting angry with me.  I usually get sucked right back in to her attention and then in no time, I no longer exist to her and the whole cycle starts over.

It's strange.  She is either running away from me, or running after me.  There is never anything in between.  Oh yeah, she had an emotional affair last year too.  Her old high school boyfriend.  Thank you facebook.  It was just texting, but when I found out, I hurt on levels I didn't know existed within myself.  I am still shell shocked that someone could do that to me, and sleep next to me like a baby.  Because I apparently have no self worth, I took her back, and I now find myself wondering what I am getting out of this relationship.  The ratio of feeling bad to feeling good is way out of whack.  Jesus, I am pathetic.

Chime in if you want, I am just venting again and trying to figure out what is going on in my heart. 

waynebloss's picture

Sounds like you and I are a lot a like

I am the one with ADD in my marriage.  Found earlier this year that I have ADD and since have started making the changes needed for myself to include taking medication.  The last 2-3 years of my marriage has been spiraling down towards the ground at mach 6!  I did not understand why or how until I found out about ADD.  Since then my wife has started a trek to find herself again, which has not included me.  We are currently separated "in-house", but I can understand the distance that yours has put between you and her.  My wife has stopped all sign of affection both physical and emotional which has been the hardest for me to cope with.  I stated in an earlier post that I have lost the spark when it comes to her, we are roommates and there is no physical attraction right now.  Sherri (the good cop) had a good point, maybe it is because I am angry, hurt and somewhat resentful on how she has been treating me!  Then Rev (the bad cop) had another good point which is "Stop being a P*##^" and get on with yourself! 

You will find that there are some VERY wonderful non-ADD spouses in here that will give you honest feedback but can relate to how you are feeling.  You are not pathetic, that is the ADD talking, which is something that you need to control.  I know for years that we have been told that we are worthless, no good, called pathetic, lazy, no good, and anything else anyone wanted to call us and it stuck after awhile!  It is very hard to shake but I am telling you from one ADDer to another you need to change your way of thinking.  It is even harder with the name calling and add to it the one person we are supposed to love forever, promised in front of God to care for better or worse has completely stopped caring for us. 

The things I can tell that has helped me with this situation is 1. I have started to turn to God for help because I cannot do this alone!  I am not a bible freak, but I started to really pray, read the bible and try to live like he/she wants me to and I will tell you that it has HELPED cope with some difficult issues within the last year!  2. Started making changes for ME and ME alone.  If my changes makes my wife notice me, come back to me, and want me all over again then it is more "++" for me, if not I changed for myself which will make me a better person! 3. I come here often! I have joined a "group of friends, not really a group but we seem to always respond to each other!!  Revelation, Topaz, Ebb, Sherri, Devon aka "Hole in a Bucket", and others I might have forgotten, they have made me laugh, made me cry but most of all DO NOT JUDGE me no matter what I say adn are willing to tell me the truth on how they feel! This is a good place to vent but also a good place to learn from the non-ADD side of life! 

So, 1. Start praying, start turning to God, he does help! 2. Change for yourself FIRST! Take care of you if she comes around then sweet, if not then you are a better person for your changes! 3. Stop beating yourself up, start to turn around your thinking 4. Come here to vent, to help and to learn.

Take Control of your ADD thinking do not let it control your thoughts!!!

Wayne

Hey Frick re: vent

Yes, wayne is exactly correct.  This is a wonderful place to let it all hang out.  I like to think of it as a large, anonymous sort of group therapy.  Do not be afraid to vent, speak openly, whatever.  There are those who would say (haughtily) "I don't want to bash".  There are some of us who speak openly enough to each other that it may strike others as "bashing".  We read about the hate and anger and frustration;  but we are very aware of the depth of feeling, the love underneath.  We can offer each other much support in this way.  

As for your post,  I agree with wayne.  You really must stop telling yourself that you are pathetic.  Its pathetic.  

As for the "emotional affair" (this is just my ridiculous 2 cents);  Do not be taken in by this "texting emotional affair" BS.

Did she screw him?  Did they even kiss or meet, have lunch?  No?

Then, no affair.  Do not give such silliness such an important label.  You are allowed to be angry and sad about it.  But try to look at it as more of a sign regarding the "temperature" of your marriage.  

For a woman, it is many miles from "chatting" to "screwing".  Many of us never make the full trek.

waynebloss's picture

Frick...Let me introduce the "Bad Cop"...Revelation!

Rev, you have a way with words that cut to the core!!! :P 

You are correct, emotional affairs are just emotional nothing physical but isn't this where it starts?  I do agree putting too much into this will lead us (ADD) folks down the wrong path, but I can see where he is coming from. We are told we are no good all of our lives, yes it is not true but tell something to someone long enough and they will start to believe it. Then we see our wives/husbands being friendly, chatting, and just in a good mood when they are talking to someone else and not us.  When they do and if they do talk to us there is no laughter, there is no sparkle in their eyes, the mood is plain and most of the times unhappy so jealousy does come into play.  They are getting something from someone else and not getting it or attempting to get it form us. 

My wife recently has been talking about a guy she meets at the gym for a class.  She has even told me that she has asked him to workout with her on the floor but he does not like the working out on the floor just likes classes only. I met him once, seemed ok but not enough time spent to see for sure.  Last night she even talked about the size of his family, but they way she did, the excitement in her voice, the smile as she was telling the story, I do not know it just sat weird with me. 

Just unhappy that another person, yes a man, can make my wife talk with excitement, a smile and joy that I know she does not do when she mentions my name to others.  I guess this just a man thing.

Wayne

wayne re: "emotional" affairs...

I purposely put that in " " marks, to point up how silly I think it is.  
Yes, things CAN begin this way.  Many cakes begin with butter and eggs.  But so do various other recipes.  That's why its properly seen as an "ingredient" rather than a "finished product" (affair).  

I think Frick's problem is that his wife has no warmth for HIM, while appearing to have some for a faceless, voiceless entity online.  But it isn't the ghost he should fear; its the necromancer who called him into being.  What is she attempting to make happen?  I presume that she wanted him (Frick) to know because he "found out". 

I have been married for 12 years.  My husband does not know I can change the belts on a car.  I don't WANT him to know.

What is she attempting to make happen?  THAT is the question he should have in his sights.  Not this penis-less online entity

By the by wayne; your wife is- of course- attempting to make you jealous.  She is showing you "how precious that 'dead thing' [your marriage] is to you".   She is not unaware of the lessened effect of her bra-and-panties on you.  So, a small gesture to inform you that someone else may enjoy the sight of her bra-and-panties.  Are you jealous?  GOOD.  

Don't be too upset, though.  No guy who is interested in "congress" with any woman, is going to talk about his "big family".  Plus, he would've worked out on the floor when she asked.  No worries.

waynebloss's picture

Re: No worries

Good, Wayne understands now make his ADD understand.  But why jealously when she does not even show me anything, hold my hand, smile at me, nothing, why try to make me jealous?  I do not get that?

It is the helplessness I feel because I cannot show her the attention she is wanting!  That is the hard part for me, I know that patience is what I need now but it is very hard for me to have!! 

Had another "zing" today, we were sitting eating lunch, getting ready to split going to different b-day parties, talking about something I do not remember the normal BS then she became quite and straight faced....."I was invited to the farm on New Years Eve, do you mind if I go?"  The farm is her best friends, I guess where I am not invited or she does not want me there.  Mind you I have not had medication yet, so the ADD reaction started to take over, I got very quite, took a deep breath and said "no, I do not mind", but what I really wanted to say is YES I DO MIND! If I did that it would have caused WWIV and I did not want to fight.  The kids are gone that week so was hoping maybe a party where we cold go and enjoy mutual friends, but I guess not.  It sucks but oh well...at least I have......something? 

wayne re: zing. Also, calling out to ebb and flow.....

Why jealousy?  Wayne, we only try to make others jealous when we want to know that THEY care something about us.   Your wife is just waving flags all around in the air to get a reaction out of you.  You have to walk the razor's edge of not looking like you care TOO much, and looking like you care A LOT.

About that New Years Eve farm party, though.  I think your wife is trying to prove to you (and to herself) that she can create a life APART from you.  OK, wife.  Point taken.  I think it would've been OK for you to say, "Its not that I mind you going to the farm, but I was also hoping we could spend a bit of time together then.  I'm not trying to pressure you, and I do want you to do what makes you most satisfied.  Is there a way that we can work it out so that a bit of both occurs?"

But, let's see if we can get ebb and flow on this one, too.  She seems to be very emotionally astute in regards to "the ladies".  

You could ask Topaz, too.  But you're in "peace talks" right now.  I believe she is currently "The War Department".

ebb and flow's picture

wayne

I know you assume that if you tell her how you feel it'll be WWII.. but what if you just made a point of speaking from the heart every time you converse with her?

What would be the worse thing that could happen if you honestly told her that you wanted to join her at the party, or that you feel sad you're not invited?

You want to stay married to her, right? Isn't marriage all about being vulnerable with each other and being able to speak to one another from the heart??

She may shoot you down but maybe it'll make this whole thing easier for both of you if you would share your true feelings with each other. You know, instead of all this guessing. ;)

I know its hard to be open with someone who's being so mean and cold... but I think it may be the way to break down her walls. Not too many people can remain cold while someone is sharing their heart with them...

Just a thought.

waynebloss's picture

I am going to try again Sunday

The last 3 conversations I spoke from my heart, told her how I felt about her, us and me and still nothing, cold, stonewalled wife who refuses to speak to me, tell me what she is thinking or even acknowledge that she still wants this.  She stayed so I took that as she is still wanting this marriage....I think?

Ebb, you are correct, if I lay everything out there the worse that could happen is that she leaves and my marriage is over but I guess it is either all or nothing! We shall see how it goes Sunday evening, this is when we are supposed to have our "healthy separation" discussion.  I am ready, ready to see where she is and where she wants to go with us.  I will bring up New Years and other stuff depending on how the major conversation turns out.  I know what I want, I know how to go about asking and talking about it.  Wish me luck and I will let y'all know what happens! 

 

Wayne

ebb and flow's picture

wayne

I don't mean to confuse you...

but, it doesn't sound like you want a "healthy separation". I mean, it doesn't sound like you want a separation at all!!!

To me it sounds like you love her to death and all you want is for her to see you desperately trying to save what ever is left of your marriage. You want her to warm up to you again, one day. You want to work *together* towards happiness. You don't want to play the 'cold shoulder' game and you want the walls to come down.

I'm worried that you're going to bring up the "healthy separation" article because you think it's what she wants. And, all the while she's playing 'mean, cold, bitter wife'... so, she may just go along with it. (meanwhile, she may just be dying to drop the front and be warm again)....

Are you guys really being honest with one another???

If you're going to have a talk with her, let her know what's in your heart and be ready and open to hear the pain in hers. (if the walls come down, it could open up a flood gate of raw emotions). If that happens, try not to shoot *her* down.

Ok... again... too much.... but I'm just wishing the best for you. I would hate to see it all crumble because neither of you were being open and honest with each other!

Good luck!!!

waynebloss's picture

Not shooting down

She asked for this "separation" for months and I finally heard her in Oct.  It has been 2 months now and nothing is happening.  I do love her to death, there is part of me that still wants her but at the same time she and I are doing nothing to help heal this marriage.  She knows what is in my heart, I have told her from the beginning and several times after that so I know there is no doubt that she knows how I feel about this situation.  She has refused to open up to me!  She has refused to be "raw" open and honest, she does not speak or say anything when it comes to us and her feelings.  I have tired and was shot down with anger a few times so I have not went that route in a while.  I was told by her to give her space, time and to leave her alone, let her "destress", reconnect socially and figure out what she wants.  She told me she does not know how long that will take to get there or when she thinks she might be able to reconnect to us.  The more I talk either from the heart of not the more angry and farther away she gets.  So I have stopped, I have not bothered her, not ask, question or sometimes act like I do not care.  When I do that, she is a tad bit more positive which confuses me so I decided to just be me, continue on with the changes I have made.  

The separation we are going to discuss is actually a tad different than a normal one, I cannot remember who gave me the link, but it does include and states that we need to start spending time again with each other to discover us again.  The "shoot from the hip" separation we are doing now is not working.  She makes up her schedule as she wishes has most of the weeknight and Friday night to herself and tells me I cannot do anything on those days!  This one, actually makes us be more open has more structure, gives us guidelines. 
 

Another want I have but do not know how to tell her or if I should is that I feel she needs to talk with a professional to relase some of her anger resentment and just get it out!  She went 2x before but gave me the excuse that we did not have any money for her to go...really I was seeing mine 1x every 3 weeks and I was working extra so we had the money.  Then she said well she does not push me like I want her too.  See she does not want to open up at all, which she needs to, walking around with all that anger and just pushing it down does not help her or us. 

Ebb, you and the rest of the gang know that I do love my wife (no matter how much I rant), I do want this marriage to work (even though I rant about it just ending to put me out of my mizery!) and I know that she is angry and needs space and time.  I also know that she has emotionally taken advantage of/punished me for the last year.  She is cold to me, cold to my feelings and does not want to discuss anything as it pertains to our marriage or lack there of, until she said that she would like to discuss this healthy separation, which is designed to help us re-connect instead of hating each other and destroying our family and kids.  So that is the glimmer of hope that I will tie a knot in and hang on until this ride is over.  Am I crazy, stupid, and dumb (I know Sherri, I am not dumb or stupid).....I might be, but I still love Jen, my kids and my F'up marriage and I will try anything to make this marriage work.  If it doesn't then I cannot sit around and say "what if?" 

Just asking one favor....be

Just asking one favor....be true to yourself. Make sure the "healthy" part of this agreement is healthy for YOU too. I agree with Melissa....the more freedom she's demanding, and the more you pretend to be "OK" with it, the worse I see this thing playing out.

"I am trying to understand where you're coming from right now, I'm reaching deep down inside of myself giving you everything I have to give...but the simple truth of the matter is, I love you. I want to spend the rest of my life with you...I feel I'm giving 100%, please correct me if I'm wrong, SO YES it hurts me that you don't want my company on New Year's Eve".

Be honest. Stop, count to 10, breathe...and refuse to fight..no matter how upset you are...but no matter how much you love her, you have to start putting Wayne's feelings into the equation somewhere. You're flipping this situation around...she's oblivious to (or doesn't want to hear about your pains and sorrows) and you're becoming hurt, bitter, and resentful. THIS isn't healthy. I personally think Rev is right...there is a fine line you have to walk between being angry about her cold-fish attitude and acting like you don't care at all. She needs to know that what she's doing is hurtful to you....isn't that what marriage is about? Separated or not?

Good luck! I am going to say a prayer for you that this is a new day with promising results.

Sherri, I agree with you

It seems at some point, Wayne is going to have to tell his wife to fish or cut bait.  Hasn't this gone on for almost a year?   Time for wifey to put some skin in the game.  Her coldness is becoming a "habit".  I  can't even tell if she's angry anymore.  She seems to be more comfortable at a remove- understandable when you feel that you have been terribly hurt.  But at this point, she seems to be milking it a la' "I am comfortable that he will remain here.  I don't have to do anything to keep him here.  When I feel nervous that he is moving away from me, I will furiously wave flags to get his attention.  Now that I have his attention, I can go back to ignoring his emotional needs."  No, no, no......

Frankly, I can't stand my husband's a**, but I take him to everything.

waynebloss's picture

It will be fine

I will make sure that Wayne is ok, isn't that what I am supposed to do, take care of Wayne 1st?  Hopefully it will a pleasant conversation...but we shall see....I will to remember to take my pulse and breath before I speak...I have changed, time for her to actually see it tonight! 

Wayne, you're awesome!

Sending you supportive hugs, and hopes that your discussion is fruitful.

In no way do I want to imply that I don't agree

that Wayne is awesome, and that I think he deserves to be applauded for the strides he's making in understanding his ADD and in controlling his behaviors.  VERY VERY WELL DONE, WAYNE.

Where I want to interject a note of caution is in other ppl judging his wife for her hurt and anger in this situation.  Now I may have this story wrong, AND PLEASE PLEASE correct me, Wayne, if I am mischaracterizing anything, but you have only be actively working on your ADD and granting your wife's requests for time/space whatever for the last 2 months or so.  Yes, there has been a unhealthy situation with no intimacy since January, but you were still no addressing your issues to around October, correct?  And if this is correct, how long before that was your marriage buffetted about by untreated ADD and bad decisions?  I think it is fair to say that every woman here understands the lack of desire to be intimate with a man who's treating her this way.

I'm not trying to beat you up for past mistakes because I really do admire how far you've come, but when you have years and years of crap built up and then a few months of change, sometimes the other mate might not trust it right away.  We've had this situation exist here before, a man comes and is taking responsibility and taking charge of his situation and his wife isn't willing to trust him (and in one case never would learn about ADD and divorced him anyway because she just didn't care anymore WHY he'd acted that way..she was done) and many ppl here start juding her for her coldness &  hardheartedness.  I just think that is wrong since you & I have no idea what that woman has been put through for years and years.

We all know that anger on the part of his spouse of even fear of separation causes some husbands to snap into focus long enough to make some temporary changes.  Now I believe Wayne is going to be a long-termer, just as I believed about Dan and some other men who posted here, but his wife is not ready to believe the same.  How can anyone blame her for that??  I don't think the changes have gone on long enough for her to have full confidence in them, but she seems to be slowly warming to the idea of trust.  To setting up a healthier situation in the home where before she no doubt had at least one foot out the door.

Like someone posted on another thread, this is Wayne paying the price for bad behavior and hopefully, at the end of it, he gets his marriage back.  But I don't believe she is a B!!!! for not trusting him immediately just like I don't think anyone else here going through a bad situation is wrong for not trusting fully in the fear-motivated helpfulness.  I think in the exuberance to express admiration for what he's done, Wayne could start to believe his own press so to speak and stop realizing that his wife's reaction is the natural consequence to his behavior.  He could start to feel like she's just taking too long........being unreasonable....is a cold b(*(& and give up on his marriage.  I think there is a lot of love there and would hate to see that happen.  I don't know of if this marriage can or can't be saved, but I sure hope that it can be for the sake of everyone in the family.

My marriage never even approached the breaking point, so please forgive me for trying to imagine what it is like for either side, but I have an awesome husband very well-loved by all (including me so please don't think I begrudge him that) but when we were struggling to find out why he wasn't keeping his word and our intimacy was suffering and I was venting about him, the reaction was always "Don't be so hard on him"  "You got one of the great ones" blah blah blah.  I was angry and my "great one" was regularly lying to me (in my eyes) since he wasn't doing what he said he'd do.  Hearing how great he was, when I wasn't being treated that way, didn't help our situation much.  Granted Wayne's wife isn't now reading what we post here, but she could in the future, and I don't want us to get too one-sided if we can help it.

You're right...it is so hard

You're right...it is so hard to 'judge' these situations...but what I keep coming back to is the fact that it seems she is now doing to him what he did to her that she hated for so long. Marriage takes two...to make it suck or to make it work. My main issue is the amount of "space" she is demanding for herself is NOT indicative of someone who his trying to make changes FOR THE BETTERMENT of the marriage. It feels horribly wrong to me that she's behaving in a way that someone who is single would behave (spending holidays alone, not 'allowing' him to question her whereabouts..ever, getting angry when he expresses his love for her). This is just MY opinion...and I know that Wayne knows so much more about this situation and has the ability to judge and decide for himself. I struggle with how I word my opinions because I do NOT want to cause him undue worry about the situation.

I do not begrudge her the right to be upset, hurt, angry, resentful, mistrusting, etc...but these things will never change as long as she continues to live a separate life from him without plugging into the marriage at all. She cannot move past the hurt and pain and start to trust him again by completely shutting him out. That does not happen when you spend 99% of your time away from the person. She has to be a part of the marriage for the marriage to heal. I guess that's my whole point.

Sherri re: exactly...

You said it well.  I agree 100%.  Aspen, no one thinks Wayne's wife is a b*tch.  I think most, if not all of my posts have been supportive of her anger and the why's of it.  Which is difficult for me, since in my case I am in her position.  Wayne wants to remain married.  That is what we encourage him about- his efforts to do so.  I didn't expect his wife would whole-heartedly embrace "the new wayne" right away.  I know I wouldn't.  Just that there is something kind of mean about her talking about other men and not "allowing" him to know where she is.  I just think its possible to feel like you don't want to be emotionally involved without waving it in someone's face and trying to make the other feel bad about themselves.  I still think she needs to put some skin in the game (not a lot, but some!) - if she wants to stay married.  

Oh I agree her behavior is off

but maybe because I have seen this situation happen here before, I am very cautious about seeing ppl take sides too strongly.  Especially since we're only at best getting 1/2 the information of the real situation and how it is being taken by the other person.

Is it time for her to start taking an role in preserving the marriage if it is gonna happen?  Oh I certainly think so also.  I was encouraged to read the positive updates below from last night, but the one from this morning concerns me.

waynebloss's picture

Re; Me too

Do not get me wrong, I am not in favor but if you really look at the picture, we are going out with friends only for now, we are going to start having "date" night again soon after the holiday's to start rebuilding, but I cannot control what she does or who she talks to when she is out with her friends. I do not want to either, this is part of my issue that I needed to change, I did not trust her, I wanted to know all the time where, when and with whom!  If she was not at home by a certain time I called, text and even called her friends to see where and with whom. I was a wool blanket in the Missouri summer with 98% humidty over her.  That is one of the wedges that was driven deep between us.  I was always at home wondering and she was out jsut to get away from me and my obession! That is one of the issues of me that I needed/wanted to change and I have. I am not that person, I never want to be that person again! 

Now, since we have separated, she and I do go out with her friends, we do not say where or with who unless one of us asks (now).  Before we were not talking at all, so it was driving me a little nuts. I will say that I am more comfortable now since last night, knowing where she is and that she wants to communicate more with me. I am giving her some credit that she is asking up front and not doing this behind my back, I also have to face the fact that when she goes out I do not, want not and cannot control what she does or who she talks to and the same goes for me.  This is one of the arguments I am having with myself for her, I am starting to think that I should trust her and trust God that he has a plan and that if his plans include her and I being married forever then so it will be.

Thanks Aspen, more feedback is welcome!! 

Nope, not just a man

Nope, not just a man thing..or an ADD thing...I am old fashioned all the way down the line...to me an 'emotional affair' is the same as giving your body to someone else...because the MIND is much more powerful than the body, anyway...let's face it. To be honest, this is why the first affair my husband had (a drunken one night stand) was easier to accept and forgive than the 2 month long one that involved talking of moving in together, future together, etc. (the Ho he had the affair with made sure I knew that he'd promised her a future together...full with "I love you's") The emotional part of it IS far more powerful, in my opinion, and far more damaging. Would I prefer he just go screw some no named face? NO. What I demand for myself from this day forward is that he has ZERO personal contact with anyone who has a vagina. If he needs emotional support, he has male friends....OR ME. If he needs to vent..he has male friends. If he needs company..he has male friends.

Our preacher said it best...even an innocent lunch with someone of the opposite sex is not a good idea. Each and every affair starts somewhere. I believe what the Bible says...you can commit adultery with your heart.  

Sherri re: not just a man...

I do agree with much of what you have said here.  I, too am old-fashioned about marriage.  I have friends that I have known for over 30 years.  If I go to their homes to pick something up, and only their husbands are home, I do not enter; I wait at the door.  That is one way that I show respect for the boundary of their marriage.  I do not enter another woman's home (non-relative ) when she isn't on the premises.  

I also do not facebook.  I only "chat" with wayne and hole....  and we both know that wayne is way too preoccupied with his OWN wife's bras and panties to be threatening LOL!

To me, in the context of your experience, your "zero personal contact with anyone with a vagina" makes sense.  If your husband were texting an old girlfriend (like Frick's wife), in the context of your experience, this would deserve treating it very seriously.

But Frick's wife didn't have a prior affair.  Still dangerous behavior, in the context of their vulnerable marital relationship.  But I can't call it an affair.  However, the situation does demand some examination.  We're assuming of course, but it doesn't strike me that Frick's wife has any impulsivity issues.  There seems to be something more of calculation here.  Approach/avoid/approach/avoid (upping the ante) approach/avoid.....  

Amen, to that, Sherri!!!!!  

Amen, to that, Sherri!!!!!   I'm old fashioned as well and feel much the same way.  My husband's EA, at least he says that is all it was, I don't know for sure because he has lied to me about so much, (insert: trust almost completely gone) involved alot of the same type of talk about a future together, how compatable they were compared to us and he was in love with her.  The damage that this does is incredible.  At least in my case, I don't know if it will ever completely be repaired.  I have been able to forgive, mainly for myself but I don't know if I will ever forget. 

Sherri re: not just a man..

You know.  I was thinking about this and felt like I wanted to clarify my position on this "emotional affair" business.   I too believe that they are damaging, destructive and can wreak havoc on trust in a relationship. And yes, I acknowledge that "emotional affairs" can, and sometimes do lead to "physical affairs". However...

The reason I do not consider it an "affair" is that I still think that there are many miles between talking and sleeping together.  To think of them as the same thing is like "rounding up" to me.  I think that if I were to respond to my husband "thinking" about having sex with someone else, in the same way that I respond to him "actually" having sex with someone else, that it kind of removes an important barrier to that behavior.   It seems to me that if I were to treat it the same,  the next time he was faced with this "opportunity"- why shouldn't he just go ahead and have sex, then?  Clearly, its all the same thing to me, so the end results would be the same-  except with more "fun" to be had on his part.  I want him to feel that actually having sex with someone else while married to me is CROSSING THE RUBICON.

I think once you add the physical element to the emotional element, now you've really got something with tremendous marriage ending potential (context is important here, of course).  Break up with him over an emotional affair as if it were a physical AND emotional affair?  Why should I just hand my husband over to some other woman so easily...  I like to keep the physical AND emotional affair combo in a wholly different - more deadly- category.  Naturally, the context in which this may be happening is important here.  

Yes, I would take it very seriously.  Yes, I would be angry and hurt and mistrustful.  But on the "battlefield" of marriage, to me an emotional affair is like a grenade; whereas adding the sex part makes it a nuclear bomb.  If I respond to his grenade by going nuclear... I have nothing left in my "arsenal" after that, not to mention the inherent difficulties of de-escalation.  IMHO, of course...

*I think one night stands are a completely different animal....  still unacceptable though, for various reasons.

Insert my 'bias' here...from

Insert my 'bias' here...from someone who has a husband who in the past has turned to other women for emotional AND physical contact...and to me, it is all part of a pattern that I'm sick and f'in tired of. I cannot separate any of it...not anymore. Thus the "no personal contact with anyone who has a vagina" rule...HE BLEW IT too many times. Ya know? I have NEVER even so much as flirted with a man since we have been married...God's honest truth. He even has a friend who hit on me once...and I (in a nice "I love you like a brother" way) blew him off completely. When I worked there was a guy who was constantly saying dirty things to me...telling me how hot I was, how he was going to be my mistress someday, etc. What do I do? I panic. I avoided him like the plague and then finally told him to stop before he got us both fired. I can't even enjoy a good flirting because of the damage he has done to our marriage with his inability to control himself when he gets the attention of a female...I feel GUILTY when someone flirts with me. I avoid it.

NOTHING, when it comes to affairs, is 'one size fits all' ... I would never judge anyone else's feelings on it or how they prioritize it in their marriage. No secret why I fall FIRMLY to the 'NFW' side of this issue, sadly. I have forgiven him for the past...I do feel he is very remorseful for hurting me..especially what happened last fall...but my gut hasn't stopped worrying about what the future will hold. I can only pray for the best. ANYTHING happens again..yes, even emotional, and I am gone quicker than the tasmanian devil.

Sorry..I know this is a

Sorry..I know this is a little 'raw' and doesn't really reflect the progress and changes he has made. I don't mean to come down on him for something I really have forgiven...just a bad time of the year for me...this time last year my life was HELL...and I'm missing my Daddy really badly..lots of raw emotions surface without very much help. :P Please forgive.

Sherri re: your bias

In your "context" I agree with your position.  You use the nuclear option as a deterrent to ANYTHING untoward.  I would, too.

Wayne Red flag

Wayne -p What you describe needs tending to. Have you written about your agreement with your wife re your separation? If so, please point me to it. If not, please write down exactly what you two have agreed to re what your behavior towards each other will be. The sum total of what you have said here suggests to me that you are about to go further offtrack as a couple. Your wife is dying for and ifanother man is who gives it to her you will be out of luck... Melissa
waynebloss's picture

Re: Red Flag

We have not discussed the separation yet, supposed to do that tonight, depending on what happens today. Nothing bad I hope, just I have been up 24+ hours teaching and nursing and we just received some nice new snow and ice so who know what is going on today. I have it all typed out, I have practiced what I am going to say and how.  The only thing that I am not going to be open to is the romantic, sexual and/or emotional relationships outside our marriage.  Other than that, I am going into this with an open mind, willing to compromise but not willing to be ran over and have this suit her and only her. 

We shall see if it happens and what will transpire from it, I will post back here or start a new post with what we talked about, the agreement and where we go from here. 

If she seeks it else where without trying to save it here, I might be out of luck, but then she is gone and the kids and I move on.  I honestly do not believe that she has done anything, I am just paranoid a tad bit given my situation.  It will be all discussed tonight

Rev might need a few drinks, better get the bottle ready! 

Y'all have a good day and I will let y;all know what happen! 

 

Wayne

ebb and flow's picture

wayne

Good luck Wayne!

I hope she opens her heart to you, finally. 

((((Sending you some positive vibes today))))

 

:)

waynebloss's picture

Re: She Did Ebb and Flow!

She did, some good some bad but at least I know now where we are and what we are doing to go forward.  I am tired and my head hurts...too much information to process and I really do have a headache!  I will post on here by tomorrow night what we discussed in detail.  To sum it up,

1. We both agreed to the separation

2. Financially we cannot be actually separated but will continue to do the in house separation.  We discussed boundaries that we each agreed upon.

3. We have split the weekends, we each get every other instead of her getting every Wed - Fri.

4. We are both strong on the kid front, they will impacted as little as possible.

5. She has agreed that the lack of communication was cruel and that she does not want to be like that anymore. So we have both decided that we will start small and work our way into bigger conversations.

6. The spark is gone from both of us, we are no longer in love with each other.  We agree that we need to work on ourselves for right now, we need to be better and stronger individuals if we are going to be able to make this marriage work. We are not giving up on the marriage (husband/wife aspect), just putting it on pause to concentrate ourselves.  Make sense?

7.  We both agreed that we will not cheat either physical or emotional while we are still married. 

8.  We will have family day/night on Sunday's.

9. We agreed that 1x every other week we will have a night out or a house date. 

10. We are going to give this 4 months then have an honest assessment.  IF something happens sooner then it does but at the 4 month mark we are going to re-eval and see if this is working or if we need to cut ties and move on?

11.  She told me that she has been sick to her stomach for the way that she has treated me the last 4-6 months, the lack of being a wife, and that within the last month she has noticed the changes that I made.  She also saw that I was serious in my changes for me and that she has forgiven me but right now she cannot forgive herself. She thinks that I deserve better than her and that I should have better than her.  Told her to shutup!, let me decide who is right for me, who I want in my life and for her to work on her and no one else!

She said that she was told to push me back, told to be "mean" (her words not mine) to see if I would change for myself (swim) or if I would be the same old me and make decisions I thought that she wanted instead of me (sink).  It worked, IT SUCKED, but it worked!  That is when I finally said in my mind that I needed to move on for me and if she is there good, if she is not then at least I am a better person for my changes!  So, I sank for a bit but then I started to swim and now I can swim on my own without the life support!

She beat herself up pretty good tonight, a part of me is happy that she understands how bad it has been, but a part of me was very sad and understands that I was the cause to which led her to this. She is not the only cause in this situation, it is a marriage, I am at least 50% responsible for this hell!  She did say that the "ball" is in her court now, that she truly believes my changes and that I am not going back to the old me, which makes her happy!  She also stated that she would like to start seeing a counselor again, it is time for her to start working on her.  I told her she was not cruel, she was not awful, she was not a horrible person, a b*tch, a bad wife, or a bad mother! I told her that she was not anything she called herself to me, and here is what I thought of her. She is a wife who has gone through HELL with a person who has ADD, who pushed her and our marriage over and sank it.  That she was a strong woman who had no support, who finally buckled under the pressure, the stress of it all.  She was a fantastic mother who hid her kids from me and my actions at the same time was the one who PUSHED me into the direction of where I am now.  Now it is her turn to finally stop worrying what is best for me, what is best for our children and start to worry what is best for her.  She needs to take care of herself now! 

We both cried, and the best part was we were able to actually open our hearts, tell the raw honest truth about how we felt towards each other and towards our marriage without anger, without over reacting and without either one of us becoming defensive. It was a very nice, non combative conversation which is the biggest gain for us now.  This is the 1st time in 3 years that we actually were able to do this!  So good news, bad news but at least it is news and I am not in the dark anymore! We are going to start communicating more again, and this time the separation is agreed upon by both of us.  We are signing the final product on Friday and will actually start Jan1. 

Have a good one and I will talk more tomorrow! 

Wayne

ebb and flow's picture

Wayne

I was actually moved to tears by what you wrote here...

I don't know how this will end for you but while reading it I got the feeling this is exactly what a couple in "ADD doom" must do to work on it and come out on top in the end! 

It seems scary but great all at the same time.

I'm happy she opened up to you. It sounds like it's not going to be too hard for her to warm up to you again, especially because she's noticed the changes in the last few months she's just been hiding her reactions to them.

I'm so happy for you Wayne and I really hope this move increases your happiness and self growth x a million!

You sound like you're going to be an awesome guy to have a relationship with. I think she'll be lucky to re-have you!!!

:))

waynebloss's picture

Lets hope

This is going to be a very slow and methodical journey for me.  Last night she said that she was no longer romantically attracted to me anymore, due to all the crap that we have been through, but at the same time she feels very "disgusting" for how she has been treating me and that I finally have been more healthy within the last month than I ever was in our 13 years together!  She is confused as to how she was in love with someone like me when she met me but now she sees me as a better person now and does not know if she can get there again. This is one of the dark conversations we had, knowing that I am starting to feel the same way for her, which I told her, so we honestly did not know where to go after that.  We left that subject there and went to another one for about an hour then somehow we came back to our feelings. I do not know how this will turn out, was confused last night on some things.  Some of it was hard to swallow but I did, like she wants to remain "roommates" while she sifts through her feelings, I need to as well, so the pill was jagged but not too bad! She wants to continue with our individual lives, going out with friends and doing personal stuff, which I agree, need to build that outer support system and have those venting avenues to release stress and just to be Wayne. I do like that we both want to have family time and also date night with each other to see if we can re-connect. 

I know that I ranted about her going out, not knowing where, when and with whom but most of that I think was that we were not communicating at all.  I did ask about Jeremy last night and the other names she dropped, she did say that they were nothing, that she cannot fathom ay kind of feelings for any of them.  Any other night, I would have doubted but last night, we were too raw, too honest, I do believe her. 

Now this next post, some of you will not like and I understand so please be a little nice to me!!  

She did say that she feels that she needs to know what it is like without me, like we were divorced, to see life without me. We do understand that having a in-house separation is making that very hard to do, but she asked if she could "see" what is out there.  Over and over again she stated that she does not fathom anything happening or if she could actually go through with anything but she feels that seeing what is out there will make her see me/us with a different set of eyes for the better.  That was and still is a hard "pill" to swallow, and I did not agree to it, yet, but thinking.  If I do agree, I am allowing her to be "single" while she is still married to me.  She started to say the same about me, but I stopped her, told her I knew who I wanted and that I would not do the same. Now, to let you all know that I have flirted innocently since we have been separated with no intentions of ANYTHING happening. I needed to see if I was still attractive, wanted to know if I still felt what I was supposed to since I have not felt that way about my wife.  I did tell her that it happen, so should I be upset that she wants to do the same?  I did ask if she has done this and she said no, that she went out with her friends and that was it.  So I am wondering if I am a person who is about to get walked on or do I trust her? Will this be the eye opener that she thinks she needs to see me differently?  Do I agree to this, let her be the individual person and not my wife? I do not know, I know some of you are totally against this, but I am seeing both sides of the fence which scares me (that I can actually SEE both sides!)  I do not know what I will do. 

Time to go to work, will be on here later on tonight!

Wayne

Wayne, glad to see you spend some real time in communication

and it sounds like you both needed to say things that you were able to share.

 

As far as her wanting to see what's out there, my opinion is that you can never fix the problems inside a marriage by going outside the marriage for attention, exploration of what is out there, &/or discovery of how you feel.  You find those things out by working TOGETHER.  I've never understood the "I had to find out if someone else finds me attractive" school of thought, but it certainly can't be a cliche for nothing.

My point if you are still trying to work on your marriage is what the heck difference does it make if someone ELSE finds you attractive?  Shouldn't your mate be your focus?  Just sounds like a recipe for getting in too deep with someone else and then standing back and wondering how it happened.  Seen that one go wrong way too often to believe it has any helpful basis in resolving marital issues.

If she is having issue with self-image, then she should work on taking care of herself.......losing weight, gaining weight, new haircut, whatever.  But needing to see what other guys are out there too see if she can rediscover her feelings for you?  I call a big old BS on that one.

waynebloss's picture

Re: BS

I did call BS but like I just posted, I cannot control what she does when she is out with her friends, I have to trust her that she is making the right decisions.  I know that is maybe a cop out, but really, how am I supposed to control that?  I can tell her NO, but will that stop her, will that stop us?  She is going to start working on her internal issues, she is going to start seeing/talking to a professional who might call her BS on this as well.  I did tell her that I was not happy, I did not like it and that I was not for it, I told her how i felt and I did not agree to it, so we left it on the table for now, giving her and I some time to really think about it and talk again about it.  Everything else is practically decided and we are satisfied with 90% of it. 

So I am in deep thought and I am asking God for help on this one as well! 

Wayne

I will 3rd the BS

I will 3rd the BS call...recipe for disaster if you ask me. I know you know where I would stand on this one..NFW for me! In the fartherest stretches of my mind I cannot imagine anyone who is married wanting to 'test the waters' so to speak. Frick. ok.. Nuff said. (beginning to agree with Deven's opinion on this)

I hope you are happy..that's all. I hope that whatever your final agreement is, that Wayne isn't accepting anything less than what is best for him and his marriage. You've got some good things to feel positive about and I will keep praying that God brings your hearts back together, the way they were meant to be. It is hard to find that 'spark' when so much damage has been done and so much space has been intentionally put between the two of you. Even the doubt alone, about what she's doing, can cause you to experience emotions that are toxic to any kind of passion you might have. (the same resentment and anger she is probably processing). Just be careful! I think you're doing great, considering what you're being given to work with.

(((HUGS)))

Sherri

waynebloss's picture

Re;Sherri

Another route I took on this after thinking about it, it might be a test to see if I "Ok, whatever have fun" or if I would be passionate, sort a jealous acting and not wanting her to do this?  See if I still care enough to say no, or if I am that far gone I do not care.  Again, just thinking about all the avenues on this one. 

Thanks, Sherri, I will be alert and will do what is best for me!  it will be what it will be, and I am making sure that Wayne is happy..that I promise!! 

wayne:bagel and toast.

Take this with a grain of salt. I saidthe same things in our last separation. Here is my take on this. She is swimming in two ponds. Ok what I see is she wants a marriage(husband, security,family) she she's telling you she wants to "test" the waters (read that as looking for bagel and cream cheese) if she can't find it, then she still has "toast" (you) In the interim she has (in her mind and her friends,family, given it her best shot)If bagel comes along you are toast, so to speak.

I said I said the same things. I was'nt actively seeking, yet kind of putting it out there,being alone with friends, not letting him know who what where when,,,, available, "harmless" texting, talking..bam A BAGEL comes along and I spread it like peanut butter because my emotional needs were met for a time. Turns out "Bagel" had no cream cheese so I went back to "toast" um Hubby read your posts and said..She's swimming in two ponds, one has a fish,but hohum,,I'll fish in this other pond and maybe,,, just saying....He thinks you are being played like a guitar...

Either get her emotional needs met with you,,,do it or don't NOW when the iron is warming up..geez.

Topaz re: bagel and toast?

Wait a minute- who's the bagel?  Who's the toast?  Who did you put peanut butter on???  Why is the bagel in a pond?  WTF???  LOL!!!

Rev.. re bagel toast

 and the cow jumped over  the bagel and lox..okay???  ROTFLOL..I TOLD you all in my last post my brain  went  fzzzt.

waynebloss's picture

Re: Toast

I said the same thing to her last night.  Asked if she really understood what she was asking, that she can go out with friends, have an open mind to flirtations from other men then you come home to our house?  Asked her to explain how that is going to help us or help her?  She couldn't explain it, she kept on doubting that if anyone approached her, flirted with her that she would act upon it any ways, she honestly did not know if that is truly what she wants but it has crossed her mind and she was letting me know everything last night,  did not want to hide anything. 

I told her that I was not ok with it, that I had to think very hard if I was going to be ok with this.  Told her that it made my stomach hurt.  I then said that if this is what she wants to do, then she needs to take her wedding ring off and not wear it until she is ready for just us or ready to not wear our ever again.  That did not sit well with her, she said that she is not ok with  us not wearing our wedding rings. I told her that would be odd, flirting/talking/socializing with other men while you wore your wedding ring?  I am not fine with that, so you need to take it off if you are going to proceed. She did not like that.  Then I asked where are you going to do this, we know a great deal of people, and some of them you do not know but they know you, so what happens if it is reported back to me that you were with another?  How am I supposed to act? What am I supposed to say? What happens if it gets out that you were with another man at a bar, pub, at a party.  What then? How is that handled?  She did not know. 

Then last night and today, I am really asking myself, if I tell her no then I have to trust that she will not because I cannot monitor her, cannot have people follow her and report to me her actions and who she talks to. Before last night, we were already living separate lives when it came to her and I but in the same house. I did not and she did not give details from any night that we went out and too add to it we were not talking at all so who knows if something has already happen, a guy showed interest and they flirted and it caused her to rethink, I do not know or want to know if it happen.

I guess I am leaning towards I have to trust that she will make the right decision for herself and for us.  I can tell her how I feel but it is up to her how she proceeds.  Then make my future decisions on what is best for me.  I know that if I react like I used to then it will push her out for good and I am not ready for that to happen...yet.  So taking the calm but honest approach, telling her that it would hurt and it would bother me I think was the best route right now.  telling her that I needed to think about it, hoping that she might as well think about it after last night..who knows! 

I guess I am out of tune right now, but getting "tuned in" very fast! 


Wayne

wayne re: just asking...

Did you ask her how she would feel if you were to do the same? If YOU were to "see what's out there?"  Just curious if that came up...

values system

As I was reading this I remember thinking about something I did during my separation.  My ex cheated off and on during my entire marriage while I sat home unfulfilled.  My self esteem was so low, I had gained a lot of weight, had frequent migraines and no joy in my life.  During my recovery I was told to google a list of values, choose 10 that defined my core being and prioritize them.  the coach believed that the negative emotions I had been experiencing many years had buried my core values.  I needed to discover the values again and start making all decisions based on them.  One of my values was no sex outside of marriage.

But the disclosure of his double life created such pain in me that I became very emotionally needy.  I thought I could meet that need by discovering if I was  attractive and desirable to other men.  I told my coach that I was tempted to have my own affair.  She reminded me that one of my values was no sex outside marriage.  She warned me that if I betrayed my innermost core beliefs, I'd be betraying my own self.  If I chose this path I would experience a huge setback in my recovery to build a values based life.  She told me I was making an emotionally based decision not a rational values based one.  She encouraged me to spend some time with my values list before I acted.

I spent some time thinking about her advice.   I had defined my own core set of values and I had come so far recovering from the pain and building boundaries.  I decided that I just could not betray myself.  I did exactly what she suggested and I decided that my loyalty to my value was more important than an emotional/physical affair. 

Your wife sounds like a woman of integrity who is in the midst of tremendous emotional conflict.  She needs to go to a counselor and work through these emotions and get some help understanding what is happening to her.  I hope you can maintain your compassion for what she has suffered in confusion and chaos.  To help her, do everything in your power to make her load light.  She will  notice and begin to trust again. 

For those of you who are Christians I've spent some time reading about sheep and shepherding.  A woman longs to have a shepherd who will protect her emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually.  Of course sheep can survive even with a bad shepherd but they thrive and are content when they are able to trust their shepherd.   The shepherd takes time to get to know his sheep, their personalities, needs and how to guide them.  A good book for believers to read to understand a woman is "discovering the mind of a woman".  As I read this book I began to understand how men really don't understand the power they have to create a peaceful home.  If the man is wise and discerning, he can love his wife in a way that she can't resist.  Women respond to treatment that meets their psychological needs and men need to learn what the woman in his life needs.  Then he gives it to her and she responds because she has begun to trust him and believes she is safe to be vulnerable to him.  I would suggest you find a good counselor who can bridge the gap between what you wife says she needs and what you need to do to give it to her.

brendab

Could be that too...and that

Could be that too...and that is where you are totally honest with her and say "No, I am not comfortable with that at all" because anything else is selling yourself short and could bite you in the a$$. :o)

waynebloss's picture

Re: Bite Me

That would just turn me on!! 

I was honest with her,  told her that I did not like it, that I did see that causing more harm than good between us. Believe me, I am making sure that she knows everything and how I feel about everything.  I am taking care of me, ensuring that I am Wayne and that I will not be played if I can help it. 

I honestly believe that she would not F*&^ with me and play me, that if something happen, something serious she would say and it would be over.  I know this is stupid but I have to trust her, trust that she will make the best decision for herself and for us. 

So you're into that kind of thing huh?

Biting? Kinky.

Nope..not stupid at all. We are all just outsiders looking in...trying to have your back.

My apologies for not giving you enough credit. I worried I had taken any possible 'hope' out of your sails...just got this ole gals blood pressure up reading about her wanting your permission to dip her toe in 'strange' pies. :-P

re: adding my 4th to the BS

I don't even understand this.  "Testing waters" and "seeing what's out there".  NO NO NO.  What good can come of that?  Agree with Sherri (Sherri I always agree with you lately?).  NFW for me.  For me, you are allowed to do this BEFORE you get married, and AFTER you are no longer married.  Anytime in between is a no fly zone.  But that's just me.  Yes, be careful Wayne.  You and your wife may agree that this is OK, but your marriage- the separate entity in this equation- may feel otherwise.  Prayers.

waynebloss's picture

Re:Agreeing with Sherri?

Concerned that everyone is starting to agree with Sherri? 

That is why I said I needed to think about it and did not decide on it last night.

wayne re: agreeing with Sherri

And furthermore, I cannot help but think that when people are looking to "see what else is out there" to help them make decisions about their marriage, that this is really a way of AVOIDING making decisions about their marriage.  But, what do I know...  I'm sure you know what's best *choking, gasping sounds*

ebb and flow's picture

Wayne

Ok...

Hmmm, what to say about the testing the waters thing... I'm going to go with, follow your heart.

I know in your heart you do not want her to do that and if you agree to allow her to it would only be to make her happy so that she thinks you're this awesome, easy-going guy who's cool to be married to.

I've often threatened this to my partner because I desperately wanted him to say "NOOO! Don't go!! I love you till the ends of the earth and my heart would stop beating without you by my side!!!". In other words, I was wanting him to take the bait to prove to the ends of the earth he still REALLY loved me.

I've often thought of others... Hmmm.... what it would be like to be with someone else? Heck, I've even dreamt about it!!! But even in my putting it out there during honest discussions... I still could never actually see myself going through with it. I love my partner too much!

I would tell her what you believe your definition of marriage to be. Don't be afraid to do that! Separation is not divorce... Though, during an actual separation... I believe anything is game. Sadly. 

I don't know... This is tricky because I agree with giving the woman time to come back around. But I never really agreed to this "happy separation" article in the first place. I was kinda hoping that your hearts would move closer together after talking last night. Not continuing along in cold-ville. I know it's a process, but maybe seeing other people is part of the process of moving further away from each other as opposed to closer together. Ya know??

Ok... Done. I hope it helps!! 

(((hugs)))

ebb and flow's picture

AND.....

I think your conversation went well for the most part.

I don't think there is anything wrong with her putting the idea out there.... We don't know what her motives for doing this actually are.

Let her know from the heart what you want and don't want. Then there will be no regrets doing it that way.

And maybe during your next talk you can honestly ask her what her motives are for going out a seeing other people while she's a married committed woman-- for life?

I don't get it. 

:/

waynebloss's picture

Re: Ebb....Said the same thing

She kept on saying the same thing..."I could never actually see myself going through with it."  Love was never mentioned but she was very strong in her tone about this.  I laid everything out, told her everything and how I felt...I have no regrets from last night. 

 

Thanks for the hugs, they are needed! 

 

Wayne

I could never really see

I could never really see myself shooting up heroin....therefore no need to ask someone's blessing, right? ;) Might point out to her that it leaves a lot of room for doubt and future issues with the marriage and that you would like to ask that she not do ANYTHING outside of the marriage without telling you first and giving you the option to leave. It is only fair. She wants to have the 'option' then you need 'options' too, right? :)

If she can't see herself

If she can't see herself going through with it, then why ask for a carte blanche?  I don't get it.  I mean sure, in any relationship you have to trust that people aren't *seeing* other people, but I don't think it is going to help you or her if it's ok to flirt, have emotional and/or physical affairs and so on.  Maybe that's an idea to consider at that 4 month mark, if things aren't starting to look up. (or at least that's a way to push it back a bit)

I'm really sorry to be the one to rain on what seems to be going ok now, but the only motivation I can see for this is that she already is (at least) talking to someone else or is totally considering it.  (to quote a Friends episode: "When they say: I want to see other people, it means: Ha-ha I already am"). And I'm very hesitant to post this, only doing it because you replied to a post earlier and said you wanted honest feedback, whether it was good or bad.

Tasla re: see herself going through with it

I disagree.  I think its just another "flag" she's waving around, trying to get Wayne to "ante up" and show how much he cares.  Haven't done this 'move' since high school, so I had to reach WAAAAY back to remember it....

It will be hard

It will be hard for her to open up consistently, and Wayne will need to be patient.  Or, as my husband used to say to me after he had started to make his changes, "can't you just let it go now?  I've been changing..." and the answer to that was that letting go, and rebuilding trust, takes TIME.  So you can be on the path to making things better, but also have to be patient.  I used to tell him, in a not cruel way, that he had unfortunately earned my mistrust and that I was rebuilding it, but that he needed to be patient with me.  To his credit, he LISTENED to this.  Instead of getting angry that it takes time to rebuild trust, sometimes he would just hold me and tell me he was sorry...and that made the rebuilding go SO much faster...

waynebloss's picture

Re:TIme

Yep it will take time and during that time I am using to make myself a tad bit better, rebuilding outside relationship with friends and finding that support structure outside of this marriage.  I am learning to "listen" more than I used to, still pretty new, but I can pick up pretty fast.  My wife used to tell me that it will take time, but like I told her Sunday, I will wait forever as long as I see her trying and not just staying the same for months and months.  Trying, I mean not being cold, angry, silent for the next 6 months or I will be gone.  I do not want to live like that and I know she does not either.  She agreed that what she did was very cruel and it made her sick, but she was very afraid that one tiny opening, one shed of light and ADD Wayne would be back to his "old" normal ways.  Gues what...she is wrong!!  Never going back, not for me or my kids! 

I will wait, I will agree to and follow our structured separation, and I will be fine! 

Wayne

That's great Wayne

It feels great that she was open and that you guys were able to talk things through.  I hope only good things come of this and am glad for you that you guys seem to be on the same page.  

wayne re: she did ebb and flow

Such good news!  I was happy to see this when I got up this AM.  Good for you, Wayne.  Continuing to send you happy thoughts...

waynebloss's picture

Melissa-First round of Legal Separation "wants'

Melissa,

I would like to send you our 1st round of what we each feel is acceptable for our pending legal separation and do not feel ok posting it here.  Could you send me an e-mail and let me know if it is ok if I send it to you directly or would you want me to post here?  My counselor has already seen hers and my response as well as my lawyer, but would like to get yours and possible George's thoughts on this as well. If that is ok? 

We are not doing well, I feel we are just cohabiting right now until we either separate or divorce.  I am ready for either, I do not want them but I am ready.  I am finally telling myself and starting to actually show that I cannot control her or her decisions concerning our situation. I am disappointed in her decisions but she is the one who has to deal with them not me, she has told me things she needs to do but has not a single one of them, instead she has found a lawyer, push for a separation and/or divorce, and ensure that we are doing nothing together either as a couple or a family. 

I do believe that our financial situation is weighing heavily on her and she is not dealing well with her anger, resentment and frustrations, but I cannot help her anymore and I have stopped trying.  I have asked her for help the last 3 months with our finances ie; get another job or increase your hours at your current one and she has refused to do either.  I do not talk money with her, it just makes her mad and she becomes very defensive, so I just try to budget what I think will happen and hope for the best.  I want to separate our finances, I take my bills, she takes hers and then we split the "joint" bills and/or cancel what we need to.  This was met with fire and brimstone so I have dropped it.  She is taking it up with her lawyer Monday to see what can be done about this. 

I do not want to be mean, I do not want to fight (in house or in court), I would like to discuss and settle this between us but I am leaning towards this being wishful thinking and I should start the process of filing for divorce. I feel that this is what she is wanting from me but too sad and afraid to ask me directly.  I do not want to assume but she will not talk with me about it, she just sits there and tells me she does not see us working out but in the same breath she states she does not want to divorce. 

Oh well, lunch is over with and I need to get back to work.  Melissa, please let me know if I can e-mail you directly my wife's 1st document telling/asking me what she would like and my response. 

Have a good day folks!

Wayne

No, I beg to differ.  It is a

No, I beg to differ.  It is a woman thing, too.  My husband had an EA and was the same way.  Couldn't stop talking about her.  It made me sick to my stomach for quite awhile.  It was not a good time. 

Frick and self worth

Taking your wife back after an emotional or physical affair is sometimes a sign of strength, not weakness. Your bigger issue is your lack of feeling for your wife...is it just self preservation?
ebb and flow's picture

Frick

I can tell you that I myself have often dreamt of just going out for coffee with a man that found me attractive. No sex, no touching in any way, even. Just talking, laughing, paying attention, smiling at one another. Positive attentive body language, eye contact and good back and forth conversation. This is my sex now! lol

It's gotten to this point because I feel I only get negative attention from my (ADD) partner. If we are spending time it's reminding him of things that need to get done, doing things that need to get done, ARGUING, arguing and more arguing. Other than that it's cold, empty, lifeless, dark, 'void'-like feeling in the home. Even when he does kind things (rare) it seems empty of real emotion or life. This may only be our relationship but I'm just saying it takes all of that to make me retreat and dream of this 'encounter' with another.

Sounds like she's screaming for some affection. Maybe just some connection in a way she's not getting it. Texting an old boyfriend may or may not be the correct way to go about getting it but a lot of times the non-ADD spouse ends up feeling pretty desperate! (I know from my own experience)

I KNOW if you ask my ADD partner if he believes he's giving me love, affection, attention, life, etc... He'd say "sure"! Then he might admit that I do complain and it may not be in the way that I understand it. :/

So, maybe you you're doing everything you can... but maybe it's not in the way she understands it.

Also, when I feel the relationship is under a great deal of strain or impossible to keep happy... I retreat and tuck my emotions away. On the outside I'm sure that comes across as cold and empty too.

I often feel as you do... that "void" feeling. I can't stand it. I usually feel like I love my partner, but may not be in-love with him anymore. But, I still believe that as long as I love him, with work, the in-love feeling can come back. We just both have to be willing to hang in there and "try differently". ;)

My two cents. :)

Emotional Affair

I had an "emotional affair." Let me explain.

I like online games and love talking on chats with people. We talk about the game, but of course joke and vent and all. I was there for the game, but developed friendships with people not knowing what they looked like or any other things about them. I just like to play games online and it is nice to talk to people from all over the world about everything from shoes, to food, to potty training.

My husband is one that has to know *everything*. Every phone conversation I have, read every email, go through my purse, ect. The fact that I play these games and talk to other people that he doesn't know about things he doesn't have every detail on drove him crazy. When I found out that he was checking up on me online (going thru what websites I was on for how long, what I was googling, all that) I tried to talk to him about it. It was bad enough to read my diaries and check the mileage on the car, but to find out what ebay auctions I was looking at and why... it went overboard.

He wouldn't discuss it and even denied it. I did a childish thing just to give him what he was looking for. I started posting on a website and made up all kinds of things for him to "find." I talked about how in love I was with this other man and all kinds of dramatized things. I left it there for him to find. I didn't ask him to read my posts. I just did it. He would snoop on my computer going through the history all the time seeing what I was up to.

He was so convinced I was having some online love affair that I invented one for him after a few years just to justify his beliefs.

There was no one else. There were other people from all walks of life... e-friends that I talked to on a daily or weekly basis, but no love interest.

The point is, your wife *may* have done the same. Maybe she left it there for you to find for whatever reason.

Showing love for frick

It is a possible that your wife loves you and you aren't hearing her. You might have different love languages, for example you might need verbal assurances while she shows her love by doing stuff around the house for you. Or, she might feel that she can't fully love you until u love yourself. She might feel angry that you don't respond to her the way she expects, so has given up...but my question is, what would be her motivation for telling you she loves you if she didnt? Wouldn't she be more likely to say she was having trouble with you? How about a calm conversation with her? Ask her how she is feeling these days and what you could give her to show you care (time? Doing chores? Sex? Going on a date?). You might be surprised.

Thanks

Wow, thank all of you for your support and opinions.  Once again, I can not sleep laying next to her, unresolved b.s. keeps me awake at night.  I am not sure where to start as I wanted to respond right away to some of your posts.  I'll just start writing.

Rev- It was an emotional affair.  I was literally dying for attention, she knew it and she willingly gave it to someone else.  She hid it, it was not there for me to find by her.  Even tried denying it and then downplaying it until I pointed out texting that went on until the wee hours of the morning.  Here's how I busted her.  I had a terrible nightmare about her, woke up, talked to her that day, and somehow my mind connected a few unrelated things and there it was.  I appreciate your opinion, but in this case, it was not an attempt to make me jealous, it was a means to get her needs met without having to have any expectations from the other person.  It was "as she needed."

After I found out.  I decided to look at my part in the affair.  What did I do to help this develop?  It was really a defense mechanism at first to try and get some control over my anger/rage.  I found some things that I was doing that weren't what she needed and changed them.  She, while at first was willing to do anything, really didn't do much of anything to become a better mate.  She placated me, because that's all she knows. 

I feel things.  I mean, a lot.  I am not someone that you can fake it with.  If you aren't into me, I know it.  She's not into me, for me.  She wants a husband to fit into her agenda.  To her, a husband is not someone that you become intimately connected to, he's someone that you control.  Someone that completes the picture, so to speak.  She gives me the least amount of her possible before I walk.  She may want love, but she wants control more. 

As God is my witness, I cannot improve myself as a husband more than I have.  For the past year I have read books, bought courses, and been very mindful of my actions.  If it ended tomorrow, I am totally secure in the fact that I did everything that I could to make it work.  You just can't want it for someone else.  BTW, even after the affair, she did no reading or anything to improve herself as a partner.

If we weren't married, I would have walked years ago.  She shut down because I am not the guy that she needs in order to love or what I am experiencing is her idea of love.  Truthfully, I think it is a little of both.  I tried to be that guy, but sadly, I can't be something that I am not.

I really don't think that I am pathetic as a whole, BTW.  I actually think pretty highly of myself in most areas.  (confident, not arrogant)  To clarify, my "I'm pathetic," statement.  She has shown me signs that I chose to ignore for years.  I have stayed, in part, due to my own low self-esteem.  When I look at the red flags that I saw.  I am ashamed of myself as a man that I didn't trust my own judgement.  I felt pathetic that I have wasted my time, emotions, and love on someone that was incapable of what I was looking for and I knew it all along.

This is, in a nutshell, is her position.  This is all you get from me, take it or leave it.  I am not "the good guy" and her "the bad guy."  I have my responsibility in this.  I just think that if I am going to be this lonely, I think I would rather be alone.

I am sure we'll talk tomorrow, but I am thinking of just getting through X-mas for the kids, and then moving out after that.  I just don't know how else she could prove to me that she doesn't value me as a husband.  Thanks for your input guys and gals.  I hope I can provide support back to you.

Frickenlonely

Let me preface by saying that I am the non-ADD wife. Aside from the emotional affair, my husband could have written this about me 18 months ago.

A couple of things that I wanted to mention...that might give you a little bit of food for thought...

-YOUR perception that she wants to control you...well, wants ONLY to control you, nothing more. I would beg to differ for a couple of reasons. She's lonely too..apparently..otherwise she wouldn't have been tempted to have the emotional affair. She doesn't want just to control you, she apparently has emotional needs that are not being met. You can change 100% of yourself the way YOU feel you should, but the flip side of this is A) you have to have some professional help communicating to each other exactly what it is that each of you needs B) in my experience what I NEEDED and what he was giving were two totally different things. He would 'behave' (not go out and get drunk with his friends, not spend money we didn't have) for a few days and think he'd conquered the world. I didn't want him to just physically stay at home for a few days, I wanted him to WANT to stop acting like he was 21 and single. I wanted to be his priorty. Are you aware that MANY non-ADD spouses are accused of wanting nothing but someone they can control? I literally wanted to PUKE everytime I heard that from my husband. Yes, I'm such a cold-hearted worm that all I wanted was this 98.6 degree walking breadwinner who had puppet strings surgically implanted in his back. NOT. I can tell you in my situation, it was 110% completely untrue, but he was convinced of this (still is sometimes...when my opinion doesn't agree with his). He was either convinced of it, or it was the best f'in game of deflection of blame I have ever seen in my entire life. I wanted a partner. I wanted an equal. I wanted someone who didn't act 21. I wanted someone who was willing to see that you have to give in order to get. He complained that I wasn't affectionate enough...that I was cold to him. It was true...BUT...I wasn't asking for anything any adult married woman wouldn't want. I kept myself shut off from him intentionally. Each time I tried to show him attention, God as my witness, the very evening I did, he would think "great, all is right with the world" and head out that evening (or at the very least the next) drinking!

-Sorta ties into my first point, but one big problem with ADD, at least in my situation is mis-reading social cues. Mis-reading things that are being said. Taking everything the wrong way. Throw in a low self-esteem and you're really brewing up a big ole pot of "I'm certain that I'm doing everything right and she's doing everything wrong". You really need to ask yourself if this is AT ALL possible. Most of the time, without some professional intervention, you're not going to be able to resolve this issue. I can say something to this day in counseling and my husband will interpret it completely the opposite of what I meant. The counselor hears me, hears exactly what I'm saying, will say to him "No, what I heard her say is...." and he GETS it. I truly believe as well that he says things that when they come out are EXTREMELY hurtful...like saying in counseling the other day that he feels like I'm trying to control him again...(not even going into how UNTRUE this is...posted about it elsewhere), but the reality was that I had disagreed with him about something, told him something he did hurt me, and it caused him to feel guilty...so he had to 'lash out' at me to make himself feel better. Although I am extremely cautious not to 'assume' anything, not to think that I know what he's thinking or feeling (like I would caution you to do the same when it comes to your wife), I am far enough along in this game to know that is what happened there. Whatever. It is a fact of life that if you do something hurtful, people have a right to point that out to you. My wish and prayer is that someday he'll stop handling those situations in such a negative way.

Please give all of this some thought before you give up on your marriage. What you are absolutely certain is going on with your wife, could be completely untrue. Where you are certain you've made every change humanly possible to make her happy, you could be wrong. Chances are you're not going to be able to communicate with each other what is lacking...what you need to do, what she needs to do, and have a breakthough for your marriage without some professional help. You deserve kudos for all of your efforts, but if they're the wrong efforts, then it doesn't change anything about how she feels. I'm certain she's not a cold fish and has no desire to have anything but a puppet for a husband. If she's turning to other men, she's filling a void. You've got the drive and desire to fill that void...and you can...you just first need her to tell you how. What she tells you, though, might not be what you hear....get into counseling.

I chuckled...then I thought I

I chuckled...then I thought I better ask...please don't tell me you live in TN..or anywhere close?! LOL

LOL I will make sure to watch

LOL I will make sure to watch for any unaccounted for time in the future.

Kidding!! Fortunately and unfortunately there are just so many commonalities.

misreading social cues

yep! that's exactly what I was thinking because I've experienced the same thing here. My husband won't counsel and believes he's right about everything, seemingly without even trying to understand what I'm saying or how I'm feeling. When I try to explain my side it is usually misinterpreted and seen as an attack against him or laughed off as me acting weird, I never feel like I'm actually getting through to him. It's like I need an interpreter!

Just dropping in with my two cents!

One other thing you can

One other thing you can try...when you're hitting on a topic that is a 'hot potato'...state your opinion and don't try and 'convince him'..clear, to the point, and then let it go. It is like someone else said, 30 seconds into the discussion they shut down and go into defensive mode..and NOTHING will get through after that. I've gotten to the point where I have almost looked at him and said "that is not what I said and I'm not stupid enough to believe that even YOU believe that...and you're not stupid either..so stop twisting my words and meanings. It is how I explained it. Period" Because there are plenty of times that I think he just refuses to agree with me because A) he doesn't want to admit he was wrong and B) because he is already pissed and once that threshold is reached, there is zero accountability. I rarely see that threshold anymore....counseling is helping. Me refusing to argue with him over whether I said "a cow goes moo" or "you're a stupid idiot" had helped as well. I could kick myself for spending all of those countless years and wasted breaths arguing with him because it was under the assumption that he just was not hearing me or wasn't understanding my point. Had I made it in 30 seconds or less and walked away...man, the stress I could have saved myself. Stupid me thought he had to agree with me to 'hear' me.

waynebloss's picture

Re: Hmmmm

"mis-reading social cues. Mis-reading things that are being said. Taking everything the wrong way. Throw in a low self-esteem and you're really brewing up." 

This is the biggest thing for me to overcome.  My ADD either medicated or not, still has some control over this function in my brain. Last night was my wife's office party, we went to a nice restaurant had a good time, but there were things that made me kind of angry at the time.  The night before, she came out in a dress that made me stop, take a second look and I said "WOW, she look stunning!"  She said she would wear it because she liked it, I liked it and she did not have to keep adjusting it like her other dress.  Her best friend came over and they dressed together, guess who came out in the other dress!  I asked her why is she wearing that one?  I know my tone was not the best it could be and she simply said that her friend talked her into that one. I felt defeated, why ask, why make it look like you really wanted my opinion then wear the dress that you said made you adjust all night? She did, every 5 minutes she as adjusting and complaining that she was. 

So Sherri, you are correct, she might not have meant anything by her decision  but all I saw was negative, I think she might have done that see how I would react I do not know.  I might have mis-read her decision, but I know it did not sit well with me but I wanted to have a good time so I said nothing more. 

So the trek continues to see if we are going to save this or not.  I will give everything I can to save, I just hope it is not too late!

Wayne

Wayne, Wayne, Wayne....

*takes a deep breath*

It is just a dress. In my non-ADD mind I cannot fathom why it would make you mad for her to change her mind. I can't decide if this would fall under the "pick your battles" category or "it is a woman thing, you can't understand" but either way, it really isn't something you should take personally..AT ALL. I would be willing to bet that it never even crossed her mind that switching the dresses would be a good way to 'push your buttons'. THIS is exactly the kind of thing I deal with...doing things that I never DREAMED he would even give a $h!t about and *WHAM* next thing you know I've hurt his feelings and there I am feeling like I will never be enough, will never manage to keep up with his way of thinking, and feeling yet again that I've disappointed him somehow. How in the hell does one stay one step ahead of this kind of thing?!! In this situation, I can bet you money that I would be accused of caring more about the friend's feelings than his...and he would add it to his list of reasons that he has to convince himself that I don't love him...and for me it would simply just have been me changing my mind...him not entering the equation at all. (not meaning I don't care about his feelings, just meaning I would never dream it would matter to him)

She does NOT think like you...YOU do NOT think like her...a HUGE part of 'healing' your marriage will be you learning to understand that a dress is just a dress is just a dress. I am glad you recognize this as a problem. It is OK to say "oh man, I really liked you in that dress...but you're beautiful in anything you wear".. and go on about your way...but the disappointment you described in your reaction just makes us feel defeated and hopeless that we'll ever be enough. At least that is how I would feel.

Wayne, Wayne, Wayne redux....

All of what Sherri said, AND:

When I am asking my husband "which" dress or outfit, I often choose the one he doesn't.  Primarily because I think men look at women's clothing differently.  In a nutshell:  whatever he picks is probably "sluttier" than I was trying to project for that evening.   I always choose the other. LOL!

Frick re: "as she needed"

Yes, I see now that you have fleshed it out a bit.  What an awful experience for you.  But holy smokes, Frick- why!  What is going on with your wife that she cannot give to you even a little?  Where you said that even after you found out and confronted her, she did not change her behavior towards you- that floored me.  What does it mean when you say that you are "not the guy that she needs in order to love"?  "Her idea of love"?  Do you know what her "idea of love" is?  What does she tell you is the problem, or does she gaslight you with the "there is no problem" answer?

I mean, you come across as a really good guy.  And you write well, very expressive.  You can FEEL your emotion coming off the page.  You are making efforts that my husband would NEVER (well, I shouldn't say never...); if my husband were actually READING BOOKS on how to be a better partner....  well, let's just say I would think the apocalypse was imminent.  

This is very sad.  You sound like you want this to work.  But if there's one thing you can't make work by yourself, its a marriage.

Frick re: And another question....

OK. So you caught and confronted her.  What I don't get is - if she doesn't want to be with you, why is she dragging it out?  Why didn't she use that situation as the perfect opportunity to say, "You're right.  I don't want to be here. Let's just pull the plug on this"?  Why is she trying to make YOU pull the trigger? Just curious about your thoughts on this...

Maybe to avoid being blamed

Maybe to avoid being blamed for failure.  Remember, they like to blame someone or something else.  Just my thought.

hi

Hi Wrustygirl,

  I too come to read and look a lot.  (Sorry to the regular posters. I feel like I am eavsdropping.)

Anyway, the biggest mistake we made when my husband got diagnosed a few years ago was to think we knew what it was. Oh a little forgetfullness and trouble in school. I had no idea how it included the whole life. Mine husband tried a couple of meds and the side effects were awuful. Huerofeedback works well but we never can afford the appointments. 

Anyway good luck on your future. You are CERTAINLY not alone. 

And Rev I am interested in how your husband reacts to being diagnosed. OR not!

 

Re: Hi

LOL I too sometimes feel like I am eavesdropping... but after reading all of this ( I too am a wife of an ADHD husband) and I can relate on so many levels...

Just a thought to Frick though... Sherri has a point... I showered my husband with love affection and sex 3 times a day for years (TMI, I know) and when I slowed down and stopped he was angry and accused me of wanting to control him and not loving him and having an affair (all of which were untrue) I just got emotionally exhausted... and now I find myself not wanting to be touched or malled by him and I know it is not helping, but in my defense I could only get beat down by his angry words for so long... our marriage could only have so many problems and my feelings hurt so many time before I shut down...

I think Sherri is right... without professional help to work your way back to a strong marriage... you haven't done everything... because I too have told my husband how I feel, where I am at and he hears something completely different... it is sad... but true... I do love him dearly and being diagnosed is a step in the right direction but getting professional help is the only way I think we can get my emotions back and him to actually understand them...

Good luck though... I know you will chose whats best for you...

loss of words

I was going to comment, being a guy, cause my wife is the opposite, yet similar, so I dont thing I have much to say about 3x a day !? 

It is the ADHD I have. combined with Depression. I take 100mg Pristique to get me thru my day and Trazedone 100mg to get me thru my nights.

Even as a husband and father of 3 young boys, I feel best when I'm alone doing my own thing, yet need someone around to help me out.

I lost my thought, so I'll get back to you...

NOVA1986's picture

Ah! Neurofeedback

I post long time ago about this therapy but nobody answered. So what exactly the doctor did with the biofeedback? Did your husband get the famous brain map?. Unfortunately my husband didn't like the idea of the therapy and the cost. The doctor didn't accept insurance, so we couldn't afford it either. But I would like to know about the kind of treatment your husband got and why you said it worked for him. On PBS there is a very famous program going on these days about ADD. It was made as a documentary and they said biofeedback it doesn't work for ADD.