I am the Non ADHD Spouse trying so very hard to to learn and understand ADHD. I almost walked out of my marriage a month ago until a light bulb went on and I finally saw myself and the stuff I was doing wrong. I changed everything on my end and we have gotten along with things looking promising until last night. My husband had his medication (Strattera) doubled along with his Anxiety medication. He feels a lot better and I do as well since he is happier overall, easier to be around and I see him trying to be more attentive. Here is my experience that is literally making me feel like I am going crazy. I am hoping that this is somewhat familiar to ADHD and others experiences or maybe I am dealing with something different. I have noticed this cycle when it comes to my husband and hearing my feelings around his Symptoms with ADHD.
1- For almost 2 weeks once his meds doubled he seemed more attentive to me and even called out his symptoms as they happened giving me hope. He has listened and empathized with me sharing my feelings on other topics. When he listens he seems to zone out. I call him out on it and he says he is focusing. He will ask a question trying to be attentive and then I answer. Instead of seeking to understand my answer or diving deeper, which is what I want... he says " wow, ya i see that its hard... so what about this question" then he is off to another question. I feel like a checkoff list, the interaction between us feels fake, unauthentic as I watch him struggle to connect, engage with me. When I call this out to him and how it makes me feel, he immediately gets offended by me. He will say I hurt him, things were going so well until I mentioned that. He will turn it into now him being the victim and my feelings about his actions, symptoms are offensive. When I asked if we could talk about my feelings in counseling he said yes, but he is sick of hearing about my feelings..... Now this is the same guy who a week ago was kind, attentive , loving and seemed to see his side. Now I went to bed again feeling unheard, unloved and no real emotional connection.
2- I dont understand how one week he can be loving and kind and the next week come off uncaring, selfish, lacking empathy and no compassion. How does he not see the rollercoaster? Why is it that he is so defensive whenever I try and talk about his symptoms and how they make me feel?
3- I am trying to figure out how to live happily in this marriage when I will be missing the emotional intimacy I have always desired. Is there hope for this in an ADHD relationship? My husband is extremely prideful and arrogant. I confused him as being and looking narcassitic. The difference being that I hear him apologize for himself more often than I hear him brag about himself. How is emotional intimacy established in a relationship like this one? Does anyone else struggle with a partner who gets defensive and denies their ADHD behaviour and then accepts it a week later?
4- I cant seem to break through this barrier that exists when speaking to him. It's like I am almost all the way connecting to him and then he goes surface, coming off polite and cordial like a work buddy. He can switch into loving, compassionate, sweet, but because he flops so much I am not sure what to believe in who he is. He comes off inauthentic to me often like he is performing. The times I see him the most authentic is when he talkes about his struggles and I go into counseling mode. The same cannot be said for me. If I do the same he will say I talk to much, He cant do this right now and I just need to be happy. He says he knows what a marriage and women need yet doesnt really seem to know how to have relationships. Emotional intimacy and asking me questions to learn more about me, engaging in life together,,, all these things lack or are non existant for the most part. Does anyone have any positive alike experiences?
" I want to connect"
Submitted by Giorgia on
"I want to connect" or "We are not connecting" "why are we not connecting"?
Words I used to say in my relationship to my undiagnosed ADHD boyfriend at that time - well diagnosed by me.
It often felt weird, Like everything was there all the potential to connect but somehow it was not happening. For four years.
I literally had to announce hugging moments in order to get some of my oxytocin. I felt like I had to take it because it was not coming naturally. And especially because I couldn't get it often emotionally at least I was seeking the nonsexual hugs.
He preferred being on the phone at the evening or morning in the bed than talking to me. He was not really interested to what I was thinking about or what my plans were. When he was asking questions it was around a topic he was just randomly thinking about followed by explaining me what he was thinking about. But it felt like he is not interested in my answer but in his reply and his thinking about the topic. Sometimes he was so taken by his own thoughts almost like amazed by it and he valued his thoughts so much like it was very special and already a value.
Later even less we were talking because we had some bad experience both of us. I was complaining about how he keeps talking about one topic and not knowing when to stop - this created then he didn't feel like talking to me because it was not a positive experience. And same for me it was not a positive experience because it felt like he doesn't care for me but he just wants to talk his thing in this very unemotional way very analytical way.
So yes I think you definitely are describing something that could be connected to ADHD but was may be not mentioned so much here. But I think it's a thing. And often I felt it when calling, it was like he was not able to imagine/feel our relationship when calling and it sounded so distant polite and was at the end causing arguments and negative association with calling.
Yes often I felt like he is reacting to me and even talking to me but it feels like we are strangers. Like he was polite to a stranger and not like talking to someone to whom he has a lot of emotions and memories with. And I think it might be because they are so focused on the details sometimes and they have a hard time to see a bigger picture then it is also difficult for them to somehow feel all of you and who you represent in their life at certain moment.
So weird
Hello, we are living very
Submitted by mlac111 on
Hello, we are living very similar lives! Is your husband having counseling on his own for his adhd or are you only having counseling together?
I absolutely see myself in
Submitted by Lost In Space on
I absolutely see myself in this. Married 28 years to my ADHD husband. Emotional intimacy, attempting to have shared experiences is a struggle. Also, mine also treats any attempts at connection as a performance/checklist. I didn't know that was what I was dealing with when we met, but after a few years his son was diagnosed with ADD and then it all clicked, though I felt my husband was semi-good at hiding any deficiencies.
Feeling abandoned – – is it the ADHD or or my fault?
Submitted by forfolk on
I just want to validate in the above post that it can be so confusing to be in a relationship with an ADHD partner who seems to ping-pong back-and-forth, sometimes stating loving intention, but sometimes seeming as though he doesn't care about the relationship, is just putting on some kind of performance or attending to a checklist in his mind of perceived "relationship duties" but what he really wants is out.
In the latest semi-regular episode of my fiancé wanting to put the relationship on a break, I'm considering a viewpoint that the ADHD is being used as some sort of get out of jail free card for other avoidant attachment issues that he just doesn't want to address. Maybe that's at the heart of the defensiveness others mentioned above.
I suspect this because while he often seems to me to turn off his listening, or claims to have forgotten what we've talked about, or to be insufficiently able to concentrate in order to deal with it, he told a relative that the reason "it isn't working out" this time is a conversation from nearly two years ago, which it seems apparent we both remember. We had discussed it subsequently with our couples therapist; I thought we had good resolution and he actually hadn't discussed it with me since. I don't understand why he remembers it from almost two years ago, while he simultaneously doesn't attend and remember many occasions in the much nearer past. To me that sounds like it is not ADHD at fault here, but I would welcome some advice about it.
It is true that battling ADHD and other crises, he and I have both put my feelings and needs as always secondary to his. But I was really struck by the characterization above about a "checklist" because the whole engagement seems to have been what he would have to do if he found someone to love, not necessarily me. It has been a grief to me that specific things on which he seemed to keep changing his mind and/or not hearing or remembering conversations were mostly about if and how we would ever share a place to live, share a future, share finances (whenever he found something not to like, I tried to suggest alternatives from things I found in the media, but that increased the avoidance), but I was always excusing it because of his ADHD, and trying to figure out ways we could accommodate and work around it, one of the main reasons we continued to spend money on meeting with a couples therapist, but it seems often that he didn't remember or attend to what the therapist recommended either. The fails in communication about finances and future plans became a greater and greater source of anxiety to me because while maybe it wasn't on his checklist, he certainly had strong opinions, just not shared with me. For example, during the pandemic I used my own savings to provide some support for my kids, charities, and a disabled family member, but my then-fiancé seemed negative, from frequently expressing suspicion about my financial choices and jobseeking attempts to not even picking me up at the airport after I visited my disabled relative. When I got two job offers he disliked them both. I repeatedly showed willingness to discuss career and financial decisions, but I was having to go ahead and make them independently in lieu of our being able to discuss them jointly. Indeed I felt making all the concessions and suggestions was turning into my responsibility in other areas of our relationship, for example he complained that we were never having any fun on dates but I was the only one to suggest we do some thing a little different from his norm, which generally fell flat.
To my concerns he said I was "too driven", "too intense", and most recently he was also repeating over and over that my talking too much about these things had been causing him "pain over many weeks and months". I'm keen to learn more about rejection sensitivity dysphoria, but it really doesn't seem as though that is in play here, because the way Melissa's blog citations describe RSD, it may be quite frequent and very painful but is fairly short term, not months and years in the extreme negative reaction.
In the two years since the conversation that apparently drove the recent breakup, which brought my then-fiancé to blame any of our issues on the excess baggage from my ex, I have been having individual therapy and also learned a lot about ADHD, and I've worked pretty hard to address learned behaviors from the previous marriage that the current fiancé/ex saw as negative. But the thing is, he also came out of a very sad relationship with his ex (probably at least a little but certainly not all of that had to do with his then-undiagnosed ADHD) and has always reacted defensively to any suggestion that we both may have some baggage to be worked on. Frankly he was sometimes very overwhelming when talking to me, once keeping me in his car after driving to an unfamiliar place to talk when I was uncomfortable about it, and he would go on at length himself about his ex, and his co-workers, things that seemed unrelated to our future, but I guess I had learned to regard such talk as part of our connection and getting to know each other better.
So I wonder if the real problem is avoidant attachment, and furthermore that he doesn't have a growth mentality that sees either me or anyone else as able to change and grow.
The other times that the fiancé temporarily said he wanted out, I seem to have "repaired" the breaches by leaning in with careful conversations following many of the recommendations that Melissa makes in her course. My then-fiancé didn't really seem to be leaning in with repair attempts himself, but he responded positively to mine. This time it appears the breakup will stick because I didn't try as hard to repair things, so that meant no one was trying. I felt so hurt I just lost all feelings of attraction to him, not only from things he said but when he chose to say them, which didn't appear to be an impulsive short-lived ADHD thing but actually got more and more intense and were timed for significant moments. The whole barrage over a period of months made me want to hide rather than reconcile, and when it was revealed that he's been stringing me along for nearly two years, I felt as if I'd actually been abandoned then, not just recently.
After breaking up with me he mentioned he wants everything back he's ever given me--but isn't mentioning giving back any things that I gave him as gifts, and wanted some things "back" that he didn't even give me! It feels very controlling rather than "uncontrolled" or "impulsive" from his ADHD. So again I wonder how much of this is ADHD, vs. how much is ADHD is being used as an excuse so that I will feel guilty, and meanwhile he doesn't have to feel guilty but can just start his checklist over with the next someone he wants to love, maybe even giving her the same gifts. What do you think, is he using ADHD as something we can always blame for communication failures, so that he doesn't need to work on avoidant attachment, rigidity, or baggage from his ex, and he doesn't feel compelled to avoid being disrespectful of my time, my career, my financial decisions, my family, nor to consider any anxiety I might feel or any suggestions I make?
Most recently the ex-fiance says he feels we could still wind up marrying after some time apart, but I don't see how marriage could work if he holds things against me for years, not talking about them, and also wants me not to bring up anything "too emotional". These last years have been pretty hard, but in the previous marriage I had learned many subjects to avoid and how to suppress and hide any negative emotions because rages put me and the kids at risk, while at the same time being "driven" was pretty necessary to ensure that the kids kept getting adequately nourished and were not placed in unsafe situations, and that bills were paid. I had been momentarily, but mistakenly, relieved in the recent relationship in which it seemed for a while that I actually could talk with my then-partner safely and even show emotion. That turned out to be wrong--is it wrong with ADHD men generally?
I don't find another suppressed relationship attractive. After growing up in a relatively secure family where we might disagree very substantially but still help and love each other, I feel quite lost, and grieving the loss of the relationship. I really loved the ex fiancé or I wouldn't have stuck with him through the first or second break up; similarly I had stayed with the ex-husband for so long because I was really committed to him and to the children, and both relationships ended not by my choosing to get out but by the other abandoning the relationship, making it clear that I was only ever a crutch for a particular period of time, a backup plan that was there when they needed support and no longer valued when they didn't. It seems from their actions that neither of these two men in my life were really committed to me. I think I still want to be in a relationship again someday, after some more healing, but as part of healing I need to learn what to change about myself, without abandoning my true self and settling for being disrespected in the future just because I was willing to settle for these two relationships.
Anyway I think not everything that the current ex criticizes is actually a bad character flaw in me that should be jettisoned, but probably some of it should be, and I'd really like some advice about which things those are. I need to find a balance between being driven versus being aimless and making my future hostage to someone who doesn't want to talk with me about it; between suppressing my emotions and expressing them too much.
Replying to my own post here;
Submitted by forfolk on
Replying to my own post here; months later, after many confusing interactions, it's become clear, with the help of friends and therapist, that an earlier suspicion was correct: it's not all ADHD, but my ex repeatedly was able to use ADHD and a streak of Asperger's as an excuse for other difficult behaviors that are almost certainly related, namely arising from BPD (aka EUPD). This is characterized by repetitive seesawing between love bombing and strongly avoidant behavior, which I'd certainly seen in my ex but had not recognized until I went through therapist notes and saw the periodicity, by which a lot of his dramatic pronouncements that didn't make sense or were totally contradictory suddenly became predictable and comprehensible. The duration of both the love-bombing phase and the rejection/avoidance/harshness "blacking" phase can be much longer than the attention issues of ADHD and brief though deep shame moments of RSD. Unlike ADHD or autism, which seems to have a strongly genetic component, BPD is a behavioral pattern that seems to be initiated in childhood, not genetic but related to abandonment experiences. I'm guessing the reason it is seen so often in the descriptions on this forum about ADHD behavior is that many ADHD children suffer experiences that seem to them like abandonment from parents and teachers that don't understand their behavior. The avoidant phase behavior of BPD is rooted in shame, and fear that the loved one will abandon the relationship, but to make this phase emotionally bearable, the sufferer projects everything bad in his own feelings onto the previously loved person, "splitting", which can seem cruel and drama-filled, utterly inexplicable.
Anyway, I also benefited from advice Melissa was giving to ADHD couples that are not yet married. Living through a long engagement with an eventual hope of being happily partnered over the longer term, but never progressing very far toward a wedding or even the basic partnerships of a committed couple without punctuation by these inexplicable "blacking" periods in which there was dive-bomb destruction of conversation, fun, happiness and contentment, not to mention hope, career satisfaction, libido, self-confidence, and relationships with my family, I am now able to overcome the grieving this relationship was causing in my life, and move on, glad that we never married; although I did, during each love bombing period of time, feel that I was truly loved. That's the toughest thing about BPD and it may merit more attention as a frequent accompaniment of ADHD when the parents are unaware of the ADHD child needs, as they were, decades ago when my ADHD ex was a child who needed more love and understanding than he got. I feel sorry for my ADHD ex and the pattern he fell into, and it may be possible that with therapy for the BPD as well as the ADHD he'll have a wonderful relationship someday with someone he loves stably. If not, he will just need to find a woman who has more room in life than this working single mother to stay in relationship right through the adores/can't even tolerate/hates/misses/adores cycle, rinse, repeat.
Forfolk
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
So unbelievably happy for you that you have found clarity and freedom. I hope you will find someone to share your goodness with who gives you just as much back.