Submitted by dedelight4 on 02/27/2017.
Question here. I've noticed a few common themes with those of us who were or are in long term marriages with a person with ADHD. (Especially when it hasn't been controlled)
Do the ADHD symptoms worsten with age, (as it seems to) or is it maybe a lack of not wanting to change (denial) with worsening blaming going on? Are there any statistics or information on older people with ADHD? Plus, after a lifetime of failures and chaos, how can they keep denying the fact that their lives have always been in some sort of chaos? Is the denial THAT great, even in the "golden years"? No self reflection?
Aging
Submitted by jennalemone on
Yes, all of the above, it seems must be contributing to our noticing ADD symptoms so much more. AND possibly it is our situations that are contributing to our noticing of it. Our time is not being taken up by homemaking, working outside the home, out vital lives that used to be consumed by so many outside things happening and keeping our thoughts and energy outward. Toward retirement, we see that their problems become our problems because of the close proximity and necessity to deal with both of our health and well-being.
All the history combines to my realization that his presence makes me nervous and angry. I have stuffed so much and kept my nose to the grindstone putting out fires and doing all the extra preparing, planning and cleaning and working that now I have resentment and I look at this old guy and don't know him because we have not been working together. I've been working and he has been hiding. Now he would like to sit at his grampa throne, chest out and chin up, expecting the respect of a wise counselor and provider but he looks like a big fake to me. And his attitude at this age is out of sync with his lifetime actions and decisions.
Just my 2¢.
Hi Dede
Submitted by kellyj on
First off, how are you? You were actually in my thoughts just recently and I was wondering this very thing? It appears your H is not leaving as he originally said so I am assuming that things haven't changed much from the things you've said? I caught what you were expressing in the other post where ( all of you who have been here for a while ) were expressing your fears, shame frustrations and anger which I am really feeling deeply sorry for everyone going through this? The one thing that really is troubling in what I heard you say is that you feel that you can no longer Love or that ability is just not there anymore for you? I wanted to relate a couple of things to you in referencing this question you have? Does ADHD worsen with age? I will try and answer you with only using myself and myself alone to tell you what I think and what I experience with aging and having ADHD so this is not very scientific or something that I can extend to anyone else since, there is no way for me to know that but I do know myself if that is any consolation?
I have shared a lot of my trials and tribulations in dealing with my wife and I am now beginning to form some conclusions to this based on comparing the two of us? What ever it is that she officially has as any diagnosis, the real problem that I was working so hard and fighting against was her own denial of her part of the equation? I still contend that denial is the biggest source of conflict in any of this which is really the thing that I see in my past as the dividing line here? For me, the before and after is like night and day? That an being on medication long enough, for it to take effect and allow me to move forward, faster than ever before? I cannot stress the difference in this before and after including medication as being a key factor here. Absolutely positively key, in making any dramatic changes and improving across the board with the caveat for anyone reading this...that the medication alone, will not do this all by itself. There has to be a willingness and a wanting ( bad enough ) to go through a lot of learning and retraining myself and that does take time and time is the only part that is not really negotiable for all of us? The time it takes, is just the time it takes and there really is no going faster, than what is possible for anyone? These things seem to have their own time table and it depends greatly on the effort and the dedication to it and making it work? The more you put into it, the more you get out of it and that depends greatly on your stamina, pacing, and getting back up with you fall down?
If you were to picture and toddler, learning how to walk...I think this might put things into perspective for you if you remember this process with your own children? If you now apply that to an adult of any age who has learned to navigate one way, and now really putting yourself back into that same place and learning how to walk again now...as an adult and so many years of doing things one way instead?
So if you take that as just one aspect of aging, retraining and relearning...this would be true for anyone ADHD or not? But that is just part A to this but a major part none the less? It's take no more time as I am doing the very thing you said about reflecting back and I really don't see any difference between when I was younger in the time it takes to do this? The only difference is having that exclusive time to yourself as you did as a child, which allowed you to focus on these things things exclusively, at the exclusion of everything else? As a child or a young person who is not in a relationship or has the worries or concerns that an adult has in their everyday life....then you really have to factor the dedicated exclusive time you need to train or learn ( anything? ) and take that out of the rest of the time that you simply are not able to do this? That by itself, is what stretches the time line out further, the more things you have that keep you from finding that exclusive time to dedicate yourself to anything?
But now as I think back and compare the time to ability ratio like this....I actually have more time to do this than I did without some of those demands impinging on me, but now that leave the actually physical ability and how that comes into play? This is something that I am very aware of, but I only became aware of this myself from being an athlete in training and being a very active physical person in my past? This really became most apparent to me when I started to train for Triathlons in my early twenties but even before when I discovered all my inherent flaws physically speaking? In a humorous way, I remember my first Triathlon and that experience as I recall and remember it well?
Being a swimmer for such a long extended part of my childhood growing up, I had a distinct advantage there compared to the average competitor? Most of the really outstanding Triathlons were either runners or cyclists and then took on the other two disciplines with swimming being their weakest ( and most dreaded part? ). I on the other hand, was always pretty good on a bicycle, but running was my absolute nemesis and i am decidedly and horrible runner! LOL I am the slowest runner on the planet in terms of speed but I could always run a good distance anyway only due to the fact that I was trained to complete and knew how to do it? Other than that....I basically suck at running! LOL And I kind of hate doing it, more to the point?
So on the day of this big organized event which had professional Triathelets competing for standings and prize money on top of it...the organizers screwed up, and miss measured the swimming distance ( in a lake ) by adding an additional 1/4 mile or so to the distance which really messed a lot of people up? I heard the moaning and complaining coming from nearly everyone at the end of the race. Everyone except for me that was. LOL What happened for me was, I got in with a small group of professionals early in the swim, and stayed with them right to the end and climbed out of the water in 11th position with the crowd and by standers clapping and cheering for who they thought were the front runners and professionals? This was the best position I held and from that moment moving forward, it was all down hill from there for me!! I painfully watched...while over 800 people passed me until I ended up placing somewhere in the 800's after all was said and done? And by far, the overwhelming amount of people passed me in the running portion? It was absolutely demoralizing....is the main point to say here?LOL Here I was...in the running ( pun intended ) and getting cheered along side the professionals ( even ahead of most of the other professionals ) who's weakest event was swimming, and the come dragging in looking rode hard and put up wet and plodding along like I had no business even being there? LOL The point wasn't that I didn't train or wasn't ready...the fact is....I just suck at running! LOL And I hate it for the most part, but it was a necessary evil if i wanted to complete in Triathlons? For me it wasn't about placing or doing well, it was just about finishing and doing it for the sake of training and trying to stay in shape and giving myself a goal to shoot for?
After that first experience....I pretty quickly figure out I needed to work on my running more and I really spent a great deal of time in the gym strengthen my legs and doing things geared more towards running than anything else? I got to a point, where I was now only getting beat by 500 to 600 people which was a vast improvement in the first time, despite my stellar swim with that extra advantage i was giving my extending the distances only by accident? LOL
The correlations I can draw from this are quite amazingly similar to what I am experiencing even today with anything along these lines when talking about things you are naturally or inherently good at..and things you are inherently and actually really bad at doing. Downright suck in other words? I am no better at running than I ever was even today. And i am no less good at swimming in the same comparison? What has changed is my body and my senses overall? My eye sight is a little worse...my stamina has lessoned and my ability to recover and recharge and get back out there has lengthened as well? All the usual suspects are coming into play here? Eye sight, hearing, physical strength and recovery time...are all not what they use to be as one might except as you age? I am so body aware from all of my past with these things...that I tend to notice subtle changes since I was always monitoring these things in order to maximize my performance levels? I do it almost automatically you might say from doing it for so many years and just developing this kind of awareness? And I new exactly what my weakness's were, and focused primarily on those before anything else and by doing that....I always improved immediately and noticeably...any time I did this well? The rate of improvement would go up dramatically...the more I focused on my weaker parts...instead of focusing on my strengths? No big surprise or any thing ground breaking there...but now you have to consider one critical factor here? The demoralizing part of having to go through this in almost exactly the same way as I sat ( or plodded along ) and watched over 800 people pass me..at the same time I was hating life and asking myself...."why did I even sign up to do this!!" This is not only not enjoyable, but it was embarrassing when you consider where i started from only an hour and 1/2 before? LOL No one paid me any mind in terms of over 1500 people in that race that day...but it was more in my own self respect and putting so much effort in, to get so little in return? That experience itself, was enough to make a person quit and never do that one again? The only reason that I didn't just quit and make that my last time ever....was the fact that I had learned so long ago, that the only person you are really competing against is yourself in every case like this? This kind of sport, is not a team sport where you just play one position or part as a team and no one is counting on you to do anything so you could just stop and no one would be the wiser and no one would really care? The time clock, in this case is the only thing you are competing against and it doesn't matter how many people beat you in one race...as long as you beat yourself in the next and improve you own time?n You cannot focus on what other people are doing or try and stay with or keep up with anyone else...as long as you are doing your own game and playing in the way that you will win against yourself no matter what? If each time you beat yourself and go faster than you did before...then you are actually winning...despite any comparisons or comparing yourself to anyone else? One day, one step and one race at a time? If you are constantly improving...then that's as good as it gets?
So when I look at myself now compared to back then at age 23 or 24? The only difference in any of this ...( including my ADHD symptoms ) is the amount of time it takes things has gotten longer and improvements don;t come quite as fast? My eyes are worse, I'm not as strong or don't have the endurance and recovery as I use to..and I can go as long as I use to...but can do thins just as well as before if not better as long as I keep focusing on my weakness's...in exactly the same way as I did before? I have to concede that my memory is not quite as good as it use to be...but that has only lessoned with all of my other senses together as one might expect? All of this, has to do with my ability to control and manage it....the overall effects that my ADHD has on me, really don't feel all that much better or worse if I really stop and think about it? What has gotten worse...is my body and sense...but with a lot more experience to counter or make up for it...so the overall effect is almost a wash? I'd say...only with memory but mainly as I have noticed more than anything else? The amount or quantity of things I can manage and do so effectively? I get or reach the point of getting overwhelmed more early...but if I pace myself and find my sweet spot ( the same as in those Triathelons ) and don't go over or don't try and push past that point and hold it there in a steady non stop progression....I still experience the exact same challenges in exactly the same way...with a reduction in overall performance or speed...but not in my ability to do it simply put? In fact...I can do more things that I use to do...but only from going through the same exact process as ever before? If you take that toddler image and apply it the same way? You fall, you get up..and you try it again until you get it down? How long that takes will depend greatly on what you believe is possible or not possible...pretty much?
Honestly...if I had to pin point or pick one thing that is most important and can have the greatest positive effect..or the most debilitating negative effect in any of this? It's what you believe, more than anything else? Positive or negative...it can go either way? Change what you believe, and everything else changes along with it? That's my final conclusion to anything like this...the rest is just academic as they say?
I hope that gives you some things to think about or work with Dede? I know this is just me and I'm not using any other references but it is what I have learned through the course of my life with this and I am very certain that this is not bad advise or something that anyone else can't apply to themselves? For what it's worth?
J
Learning, at any age
Submitted by Terra on
JJamieson, another example of learning, at later ages, is learning a new language: a person has to be resigned to knowing they'll fall down (like, learning to walk) verbally - make mistakes, etc. When a person wants to learn something unfamiliar, they must practice acceptance of feeling inept... and, hpoefully, be able to laugh about it.
Some people embrace learning, life-long - they usually seem younger than their years. Conversely, those who dig in their elbows, and refuse to explore new paths in any way, strike others as elderly, whatever their age.
ADHD more present with age and proximity
Submitted by MrsADD (not verified) on
I actually had a conversation with my H this morning about how we were in love then suddenly after the first year of having a child with him my attitude changed towards him. He insists I am crazy of course but I told him it was because for the first time in our relationship our lives became entwined and we had to work together. Before in our relationship, we were very separate and happy with that. Separate financially and had our own things going on work and hobbies. It was when we had to work together and I had to depend on him I realized what I was dealing with. Now he has gotten much better but it comes in spurts. It is not consistent. He insists I just changed and suddenly thought he was a piece of shit. I told him no it was over a course of disapointing episodes that I determined I could not work with you and was very alone in this relationship. He says any time we have worked together I think of all the negative aspects of his plans. I told him if asking how money is going to be made, when, and where it will go are negative aspects of a plan then yes we will never be able to discuss anything and work together. He thinks these types of questions are negative! How is that possible? How does someone live like that? Or even think like that? I am scared for him actually. I just told him I am done fighting about this agree to disagree and move on. We are back to living separate lives again because I went back to work at a good job 2 years ago. He did help me get the job by paying daycare for 2 months while I searched and I was extremely grateful. I am much happier but I crave a companion that I can connect with and build dreams with. That was the reason I got married. Maybe it is a fairytale belief but I do see couples that work together. So in sum, proximity does cause the non adhd person to realize how bad the adhd is. And as my H has gotten older I have noticed more but maybe that is because I have been around him more?
Thank you for your replies
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Hi, everyone. Thank you SO MUCH for your replies on this, it helped a lot. My husband has never thought his ADHD affected our marriage, but lately he DID say the opposite (once). He started back on his Concerta, that he stopped taking a while back. The Concerta DOES help him focus and calm down. Since I've been away from him, I can see the ADHD in him to a greater degree, but it's helped me emotionally to distance myself from him. It's VERY hard for me to trust him now, because he is still trying to rely on "self control", instead of re-learning new behaviors, and I know him relying on self control WON'T WORK. The impulsiveness will come out again at another time. I see several things differently now that we BOTH are older, but the ADHD seems worse in different areas, and I wondered if that was from ageing. His mother passed from Alzhiemer's, and her doctor told us that she also was bi-polar, but it had gone undiagnosed.
There are SO MANY things left undone, unfinished and not worked out, that I'm contemplating moving back in the house to settle all these things. Things such as paperwork, bills, legal papers, etc. The house is a complete MESS, with his stuff everywhere, in every ROOM, (and it's a good sized house) and forget the garage. You can't even walk through the garage because everything is all over the floor. The walls of the interior of the house are painted all different colors, (his new idea) and none of them are finished. It looks really strange, but he thinks it looks great. ugh. Plus, the dirt, grease and filth is staggering. Again, he DOESN'T SEE IT. I want to gag, every time I go back to the house now. If I continue with the divorce, we can't SELL IT the way it is, because we wouldn't get ANYTHING for it, in the shape it's in now. So, I NEED to go back, and literally need to TAKE OVER everything. Not as an enabler, but to make sure all our 'stuff' is in order before I move on, or make any further decisions. This living in limbo is frustrating, and I know I need to do this. This time, it's not with an "emotional attachment", but it IS with the intention of straightening out finances, bills, legal documents, and getting the house in order to possibly sell.
All the years prior, we couldn't talk about anything, or get any subject "settled". But, at THIS crossroads, I am frustrated enough, that I need to look out for MY investment in this whole thing. I don't want to sell a house for nothing, and end up OWING on it. (that would be even worse, due to the shape it's in) Because we would both owe on it, and I don't make any money to pay this off.
Even if the marriage doesn't survive, I need to get all our LEGAL and situational things in order, and I can't do it living 40 minutes away from him. I've GOT to go back, and go THROUGH everything. If he disagrees and says no, then I know he's not serious about wanting to change anything, and I will continue on with the divorce as planned.
He also is having some serious health problems, and has been worried about dying. I don't believe he is "dying", but he thinks he is. He did go through a bout of prostate cancer a couple years ago, but that is now okay. He has sleep apnea, and has been having anxiety attacks from not sleeping but a couple hours a night. I think he's mostly scared. I DO care about him, and want to see him do well. But, like I said, I'm putting my foot down on this, which I've really never done with him before.
I put together a proposed
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I put together a proposed property division before my divorce. I thought long and hard about how best to divide the property equitably. The biggest single asset is the house. I knew that it would be hard for my ex to "give up" the house but he agreed. The main reason I proposed me getting it is that I actually am taking care of it. Even if he had received it as part of the divorce, he wouldn't be living here, because he's hooked up with his parents. While I like having a place to live, it's a pain to take care of the house and it's not inexpensive; the property taxes and utilities are high. I would have been better off financially if I had gotten liquid assets equivalent in value to the house. It still kind of astounds me that I, clumsy, inept, tiny woman, am better equipped to own this house than my ex.
PoisonIvy
Submitted by jennalemone on
Sounds like you have a difficult year of transition and decisions. But from your posts, I can tell that you will be able to do what you need to do to get your life in a better place. You have been brave and strong to get this far. My hat is off to you.
Yes, many of us spouses are astounded that our life took such a turn and we are not in a place we thought we would ever be and we are not the person we used to be or thought we would be. And we grieve our former selves. You are on your way to your former self or newer self.
Rose Red, Congratulations.
Ending childhood entering wholeness
Submitted by tcrane on
Is it worse or better? I have had a renewed sense of commitment to marriage as I've both struggled with a painful career and life transition and had a bit of space from my projections. While my spouse and I have done his work many years ago and it didn't 'work', Harville Hendrix quote about an insight into relationship and wholeness that literally led him back into his (wildly successful) couples work when he was done....has led to a (perhaps?) selfish perspective of hanging in there. When you enter into the arms of a loving (romantic) partner (and marriage), she will trigger all your repressed issues from childhood...and. as such they will be healed. While I share this qualifier is " that you teach best what you most need to learn"(R.Bach) or "while you're learning"(Covey), I continue to have fresh deepenings of life, wonder, and beauty as I both learn daily (and continue to make mistakes daily) that I feel more balanced and grounded in myself---more deeply contented---while still 'too often' not being happier. While the Stones song " you can't always get what you want.." comes to mind the battles with my "war buddy", as Bernie Siegel and his wife described their marriage, get more poignant as biological time lessens. All I can offer is that the deepest pain I experience in my being out of sync and not capable of intimacy (as others know and experience it more easily and lovingly)....continues to be an edge and source of great sorrow----an edge, that when mindful, I can experience with less reaction and (as such) experience the extra-ordinary experience of new universes opening, and an abiding calm. Selfishly, it is this wholeness now and accountability to 'MY wholeness' that is a game changing revelation. Perhaps, "ending (the false outdated programs of) ..."my childhood". And what "ending my childhood" means only alludes me only when I risk being open and vulnerable to my most committed friend.
Do not believe ADHD worsens with age
Submitted by Stef G on
I am the non-ADHD spouse in a marriage of 45 years. I believe ADHD does NOT become worse with age. I believe it became the elephant in the room when my husband retired several years ago.
Employment offered my husband formal structure, life after retirement did not. He was not in denial, he was taking meds, but we didn't understand how ADHD manifested itself. My husband's behavior made no sense to me because I was evaluating his actions based on my reality, not his. Learning about ADHD symptoms, learning they could be managed, and acknowledging how my reactions to his symptoms exacerbated a difficult marriage, was the turning point in our marriage.
My husband had great shame & guilt. He knew he was different, he knew he had no memory, he knew day-to-day life was a never-ending challenge for him. He lived in constant fear someone would discover his secret.
My husband agrees his symptoms did not become worse with age. His earliest memory of an ADHD episode is high school. Once we learned about ADHD symptoms, I realized our marriage had been one symptom after another, that after years of not understanding the dynamics between us, our life together finally made sense. I encouraged him to go back to his psychopharmacologist to reevaluate his meds, we read Melissa's books, attended her couples seminar, and then decided to pursue marriage counseling with her.
Our marriage still is impacted by ADHD, but we both have a much more measured response to the symptoms. My husband schedules his life on a white board, realizing that writing down what he has to do each day says nothing about who he is as a person: intelligent, articulate, a scholar, a crossword puzzle whiz, resilient, a lover of animals (& me).
I think if the ADHD partner can move past denial & acknowledge their impact on the non-ADHD partner, and the non-ADHD partner owns their bad behavior, there is hope for the relationship.
Stef G...Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your experience..
Submitted by c ur self on
Nice post...Lot's of Love, Patients, & Self-awareness...Upholding your husbands dignity and SEEING past his struggles to the heart of his Love and Commitment is so how it works...
I also agree /w you about Denial, it is blinding and the killer of relationships....But if we manage our own thoughts, words and actions responsibly and kindly we have a chance to be part of the healing process, vs pushing them farther into the abyss....
Blessings
C
Dede:
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Dede:
There isn't much research that I can find on whether or not ADHD worsens with age but there is plenty of evidence showing that ADHD likes to find a traveling companion, whether it's depression, BP, anxiety an LD or some other disorder.
I do believe that the co morbid issues can cause a worsening with age. BP can become worse with time. Long term depression, for example, can deplete cognitive abilities and strain reasoning resources. Long term depression can and does compromise sound decision making. My husband, for example, was diagnosed with a learning disability in grade school. Of course, he doesn't have any information on the type of LD or anything... and his parents never sought extra treatment or provided coaching to develop positive coping mechanisms. I contrast that behavior with that of my friend with an LD son. She has been a passionate and relentless advocate and coach all of these years. He's doing very well. There is no doubt my H has experienced years of untreated depression, despite frequent "suggestions" that this might be the case and he should go in for an evaluation. What he's now facing is a lifetime of learned helplessness, fatalistic thought patterns and poor coping mechanisms. In any case, I ran across an article that does state that LD is not a straight line continuum in adulthood. The severity depends on the stage of adulthood and can worse with age. It may be the case for other co morbid conditions as well. IDK.
The penultimate myth acknowledges an aspect of adult development not written or spoken about in the adult learning disabled literature. Not only are adults with LD different because of the heterogeneity of learning disabilities, but adults with LD are different depending on the phase of adulthood that they are in. There are distinct differences in physical, mental, and psychosocial traits depending on early, middle, or late adulthood. Research even has shown deterioration in cognitive and other abilities as individuals with LD age (Gerber, Schneiders, et al., 1990).
This article was excerpted from Characteristics of Adults with Specific Learning Disabilities by Paul J. Gerber, Ph.D.
The moral of the story is STILL that nothing changes unless my H wants to change and put in the work and that ADHD with co morbid conditions is a real b*()&