I am wondering if other nonADHD spouses experience what I do in terms of having to be the one to always initiate things?
We don't get out of bed unless I say "Are you ready to get up?"
We don't eat unless I say "Are you hungry?"
We don't go out unless I say "Are you ready to go?"
We don't make plans unless I say "Do you want to get together with so and so this weekend?"
We don't go out together unless I say "Do you want to go for a walk?" or "Do you want to go to a museum tomorrow?"
We don't do anything together at home unless I say "Want to play a game?"
We don't have a snack while watching TV unless I say "Do you feel like some popcorn?"
We don't go to bed unless I say "Ready for bed?"
I think you get the picture.
I am starting to find it exhausting to always be the on who initiates and plans everything. In fact, lately I feel tired all the time, and I think part of it is that I am the one who is constantly "putting things out there" in order to do anything with my wife.
It feels like if it was up to her, she would just stay on the computer all day or sit on the couch playing games on her iPhone.
It wasn't always like this. There used to be a time when she suggested things as much as I did. It's something I really liked about her. But no more. I guess it must have been part of the hyperfocus phase that I hear so much about.
The other interesting thing is - that when it comes to sex, my wife frequently initiates (and I do not). The thing is, I am usually so tired, or else we have been barely getting along, or I just don't feel much of a connection with her, and so I hardly ever feel like having sex.
And now we realize we are in a sort of catch 22: she needs to have sex to feel connected, and I need to feel connected to have sex. So neither of us is getting what we want/need.
I thought it was just us!
Submitted by sapphyre on
"she needs to have sex to feel connected, and I need to feel connected to have sex. So neither of us is getting what we want/need."
Hoping, I believe you are both ladies (apologies if I got this wrong!!!)... this is wonderful to hear something that usually sounds like a male/female issue. He used to be where your wife is now, I am still at the need to feel connected to have sex, but now we are connected, but with no sex. We have intimacy, talk, etc. but he says he's not interested anymore because I turned him down too many times (read this as sex in the mornings on the weekends wasn't enough for him, if I turned him down because I was tired, I was rejecting him).
Probably not much help, but you are not alone. { Hugs }
You got it right, Sapphyre -
Submitted by Hoping4More on
You got it right, Sapphyre - we are both ladies. I often read things on this forum that imply things are male-female dynamic which my wife and I also experience. Sometimes, she is the one with the traditional "male" behaviors, and sometimes I am. Sometimes she is the one with the traditional "female" behaviors, and sometimes I am. Go figure!
I think we really hit upon something with this one. We were talking about it again this morning. It's such a struggle sometimes, as we both need to feel connected in order to give the other what she wants/needs to feel connected. I think sometimes I will just have to "bite the bullet" so to speak and give her what she needs to feel connected (sex) even when I don't feel connected. Because the result is that she ends up feeling more connected, and then is able to give me more of what I need to feel connected.
I'm not sure how to do that though, without starting to feel like I am always the one giving her what SHE needs. Hopefully, if I start the ball rolling, we'll just BOTH start to feel connected more often, and so we will BOTH feel like we are "getting." I'll keep you posted.
Sorry to hear your honey has given up on sex. I hope he gets to a point where he can soften up a bit in that area.
Tired
Submitted by callmesusan on
Hoping4more, It took about 35 years to dawn on me, but I am the one who initiated everything. Eventually that included initiating sex. A bunch of years ago I had "initiate sex" on my TO DO list, to take care of the marriage... one day I was just too pooped to care and crossed it off my list. 10 years later we are working at the sex part and he even initiated a few times. yay. progress. It was only a few years ago that I thought, 'huh. He never starts to get ready for work until I do first.' Then I noticed that everything was that way. Yep. Took me a while to notice this.
You described my marriage, too
Submitted by BreadBaker on
Right down to the sex life. :-(
You're very lucky you got out early. I'm in the process of divorce, and I'm so sad over the years I wasted (admittedly, not many--but still, years). Consider yourself blessed that you were perceptive enough to get out of the relationship early on, with your self-esteem intact.
Silly little story: I had gotten *so* used to being the burned-out chief cook and bottle washer in charge of every little thing, that I had forgotten that most men aren't like ADDers. After my husband and I had separated, some friends of mine who are a married couple came over. They were helping me move a piece of furniture, when something very minor on it broke (no one's fault, and not because it was moved--it was just its time). The husband said "Where's your toolbox? Do you have a power drill?" I got the toolbox and the drill for him, and he fixed it for me right then and there.
My husband never would have done that, and it hit me so hard that I had gotten used to such a low level of support and empathy from him, that I started crying and couldn't stop.
It was then that I realized how profoundly "undeserving" my husband had made me feel--as though no husband does this sort of thing for his wife, but especially no one would make an effort like that for *me*. He would describe me as ungrateful and wicked when I expected him to put his work aside to fix something. He never, ever just up and fixed anything, even things he had broken, unless I begged, and then he would resent me and the situation every second that he had to spend on it.
Yep. It was a real tap dance on the psyche . . .
Wow! You mean most husbands do things in the house
Submitted by Sueann on
Sorry. Double post.
Wow! You mean most husbands do things in the house
Submitted by Sueann on
We will have lived here 3 years in November. Still no curtains on some of the windows because there weren't any fixtures at the windows and my husband either can't be bothered or doesn't know how to put up curtain rods and I can't hire someone to do it.
Going Without Common Courtesy
Submitted by wagnerism on
I think it is the absence of common courtesy that hurts me the most. Knowing about the ADD takes the sting out of a personal hurt but the annoyance remains. There are two minor events that really hit me in the gut. They each happened when friends of ours were visiting and helped out like normal people would do for strangers and it highlighted how she rarely helps me in the same manner. She is often oblivious to these basic things going on around her. She may read this. I linked her to this site in the past. I have expressed this to her before so it won't be a surprise.
There are two problems. I have come to not expect any reasonable level of common courtesy and requesting any of it becomes an utter hassle. Seriously, I cannot ask her what time it is without getting spun. I do not perceive this as nagging because it is a one-time request in the moment rather than a chore that hasn't been done.
Let's say she doesn't hold a door open for me. I have to word my request in an airtight manner and corner her with my request so that she cannot misinterpret it in any way - like a lawyer would with a hostile witness. She actively avoids obvious/likely interpretations of the question as if it buys her time. I actually have to word it like this: "Please go to the left hand door, open it fully and ensure that it remains open while I pass through it while carrying our child" The effort required to ask easily exceeds any benefit it could provide - especially if she creates a loophole in the question and does something completely unhelpful and different. things
It feels horrible when my wife walks out of the store ahead of me and lets the door hit me as I am carrying our child and shopping bags. Pointing it out becomes unpleasant as if I'm wrong for disliking being struck by a door or expecting her to hold it for me. She does not want to treat me this way, but she provides a lower standard of courtesy to me than I provide to people I dislike. I'm at the point where I let the door hit me and say nothing yet would get an earful if I did the same to her.
If I express any negative emotion about the mistake or ask again, I will get a flurry of contrived BS reasons for the misunderstanding. Meanwhile, I am becoming annoyed and impatient - which doesn't help. It was embarrassing when her friend noticed that I have to make requests in this manner. It appears to insult her intelligence. We talked about it and she says she understands that I have to ask that way, but she gets annoyed when it happens on one of her good days. Now I have that guess how she's doing before requesting. Asking in the airtight manner can cause a fight if she happens to be clear that day. Asking as if she's clear that day gets me the spin. That's another reason that makes it more trouble than it is worth. I often do it myself or do without than deal with her at all. I become resentful because she has made it undesirable for me to ask for even the simplest of things, yet I do a lot for her at her request.
Admittedly, these are very minor events but they clearly describe a fundamental problem. It is their simplicity that makes them unexpectedly powerful examples. They remind me that there are spouses out there that can reliably extend the common courtesies usually provided to a stranger - and I miss that terribly. She loves me the way she wants to love me, but doesn't love me the way I need her to love me. I'm starting to close her off and not let her love me at all because many basic simple reasonable needs are not met.
She is too much of a pain in the ass to ask for her help in holding a door open and she would never be attentive enough to do it without asking. She will sit there and blankly watch me struggle with the door. Call her on it and the excuses come pouring out. Extend that to any simple courtesy you would give a stranger.
I'm feeling rather screwed at the moment. Retaliation is inappropriate. Discussion is pointless and persistent discussion only causes fights. Putting up with it is pathetic and will not hold up for the long haul. Accepting it is (IMO) unreasonable and sad - and she unfairly cuts me little slack when it comes to my mistakes... probably because she feels like she is busted for every mistake of hers. I'm beat. I let a LOT slide because of the hassle it brings, but she does not see or appreciate that.
I don't know if she will ever regain the ability to consistently provide common courtesy. I wouldn't have married her if she treated me this way beforehand. I doubt that I can put up with this for the long term as it is eroding my emotional intimacy and trust. I love her and am starting to dislike her because she is inconsiderate - regardless of cause. It is hard to have a positive outlook on your day/life/marriage while expecting this. Accepting that she is not acting deliberately does not help me deal with it on a daily basis.
So what can I do when my wife is supposed to give a damn about me, says she gives a damn about me, wants to give a damn about me, but consistently acts as if she doesn't give a damn about me? What can I do about my dreading asking anything of her, especially when I'm tired of taking up all usual slack? How can I bring up any problems that can be addressed instead of either being ignored (nagging - nothing happens) or being escalated (big fight - nothing accomplished)?
Not Small Examples
Submitted by Hoping4More on
The examples you bring up are actually not small at all because they happen so frequently, and because YOU invest so much worry energy into thinking about how to deal with them. I experience the same thing in my relationship. I also spend a lot of time thinking about these kinds of things.
You say "Discussion is pointless and persistent discussion only causes fights. Putting up with it is pathetic and will not hold up for the long haul. Accepting it is (IMO) unreasonable and sad." I feel exactly the same way. When expressing my frustration some have commented that it is such a "small" thing. Let it go, they say.
Well, it's not small when it is just one of countless examples of the same kind of behavior - all small in and of themselves, but all big when you add them up.
The thing is - what are we to do when we know our spouses will not think of something on their own - not notice the door needs to be held, for example?
Where asking ahead of time just doesn't make sense - what are we supposed to do, ask our spouse to hold the door before we walk through it? And if we do, we're likely going to get a response like "I was GOING to!" Like - how DARE I imply that she wasn't going to do it? That happens to me A LOT when I ask my wife to do something that I think she won't think of on her own.
And like you say, commenting after the fact doesn't really help - saying, for example, "honey, you didn't hold the door for me," only gets either a dismissive "yeah, whatever" kind of response, or a defensive kind of response, like "Sorry, Miss Perfect," or an angry "you are always criticizing me!" kind of response, or whatever.
Any pointing it out just begets negitivity, which doesn't feel good, and does nothing to change the situation.
And just ignoring it, or putting up with it because she doesn't INTEND to be rude or neglectful doesn't work either.
Is there some other option we are not thinking of?
not overthinking
Submitted by rapidly aging on
I don't think he is overthinking it when a door literally hits you in the face on a daily/weekly basis it is a big deal. When it is the fault of the person who is supposed to love you and your child more than anyone else in the world it is a very big deal.
Accepting it is sad
Submitted by Clarity on
Even though that's what I recommended in another post. But, after almost 30 years of "dealing with it" I have run out of options. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. There was a time in my life when I attended an effective church, unfortunately out of state. I had quite a bit of support there and was much more hopeful though he was yet to be diagnosed. Apparently that kind of atmosphere needs to be consistent to be effective. After a diagnosis, I was elated and looking forward to some new strategies or solutions and then then went through a period of mourning as he was in denial and would only do so much. (Meds only no cousel)
Thankfully, the meds have helped but our lives are still made up of small little things and I can catch hell for nothing. I know I've become more timid and introverted because of the seemingly constant confusion over every little thing. I find myself ruminating over behaviors and words that baffle me trying to make sense of what's going on. Am I really at fault? I'm examining myself and my motives while hoping not to instigate something over nothing again. Alas, he's not able to help me with my problem...
Hoping4more, I hope you keep hoping and searching and when you find something that works remember to share with the rest of us. It seems I'm hoping for a miracle.
doors and such consideration
Submitted by rapidly aging on
This post brought tears to my eyes, as I feel as though I could have written it word for word myself reversing all the she pronouns to he. I have the same problem with the doors. My kids are 5 (girl) and 7(boy) now. I worry about what a horrible example of a man my husband is for my children. The self-absorption and general lack of consideration pains me to the point if a total stranger holds the door open for me, I have to literally hold back the flood of tears. I feel like I am not even considered in his line of thought at any point. The problem is he is like this with the children. The usual ADD things like leaving power drills plugged in (on the floor, in kids' bathroom)and on without the safety button on over and over again. Recently, while on vacation, he took the kids to see the hospital where they were born. I waited in the car. I ask him about a million times daily not to walk in front of his wife & kids. Sure enough, my daughter got left in the elevator. The craziest thing is that only being able to rely on my husband's irresponsible nature I had prepared my kids for this. Two weeks prior while in an elevator, I said "Just in case, you ever get stuck in an elevator push L for lobby or 1 if there is no L button and Mommy or Daddy will be there waiting for you." My friends were all amazed that I had even ever had such a conversation with my kids, since in normal life it would be completely unnecessary. Even if my husband were cured of his ADD which is going untreated, I would want to divorce him. The things that hold me back are a.)he is from a country that has not signed the Hague convention and I fear he will abduct my kids, since his mom constantly wants us to move there b) the only thing worse than being married to him would be handing my kids off to him for an entire weekend. I hate the angry, nagging person I have become and feel so stuck. I hate the inconsiderate, selfish behavior being modeled for my children. At times, I almost feel as if my husband is not human, the depth of his selfishness just astounds me. He treats me as though I am a sponge that he is trying to squeeze every last drop of water out of...while I feel I deserve to be treated like a flower that he waters...
Yes, and always walking 5
Submitted by loosing myself ... on
Yes, and always walking 5 feet in front of you, even when its just the two of you, always sitting on the side of the table at the restaraunt so that he can watch tv the entire time, if he manages to stay off his cell phone, so much for quality time. On safety, how about always leaving razor blades and open box cutter blades in the "junk drawer" that everyone, including the kids is always digging through to look for something, or never, ever, ever locking the door when leaving the house in the morning and I leave first. I mean its only our two young teenage girls coming home to an empty house in the afternoon alone. Hopefully no predator sicko type would figure out our door is always unlocked and wait for our daughters, I mean that kind of stuff never really happens right? (insert sarcasm) Oh, or how about leaving your wallet in your unlocked car on almost a daily basis, WITH the keys also in the ignition on many occasions. Honestly I gave up complaining and nagging about these things, because it didn't work and it was a waste of my energy.
Walking 5 feet in front of me
Submitted by Artemis on
I can relate! If he is not walking 5 feet in front of me, he has wandered off to "get fascinated" with something. I continue on my way and after a few moments I realize he is MIA once again! I appreciate the similar experiences...
walking 5 feet ahead
Submitted by rapidly aging on
Relieved and saddened both to hear he is not the only one. I used to think it was just his Japaneseness but we just went to Japan and his dad never does this. Also he has lived in the states for 10 years (not consecutively) and been married to me for 10!
walking in front of me too!
Submitted by Clarity on
That must be related to the ADD somehow. What an odd thing! My ADD husband always walks ahead of me. He'll cut me off too in a way that I have to stop so I don't step on him or pass him up, I guess. If we're out in public like at a flea market say, he's not aware of me and easily loses track of me. I watch him walk about looking a bit baffled and stare at him (you know how you can tell if someone is looking at you?) but our eyes never meet. Weird! It's like another indication that he's never really with me.
not small
Submitted by Gina57 on
This example really hit home--and the little things ARE powerful precisely because they're so "simple" and prosaic . . . It's so wearying to explain how to behave like a courteous human being every single day, sometimes several times a day (please don't talk on the cell phone the entire time while you're at dinner with me at a restaurant; please show up for the dinner that I cooked and that we agreed would be ready at 8pm; etc.). I guess one thing that helped before I finally gave up struggling with feeling like a ghost (I still can't believe I put up with it for so long--four years) was to lower my expectations with him to nil so that every thoughtful thing he did was a very nice surprise, and to find validation elsewhere. Spend time with generous friends who you can be generous with in turn, who will show their appreciation of you whenever you're with them, and who are great role models in this respect for your partner. It did help to have a constant picture of what normal courteous interactions are like. One thing that I noticed was that he tended to be drawn towards others like him--high achievers who were procrastinators, forgetful, and chaotic with their partners (one of his friend's wives once told me that her husband sometimes forgets her name . . . good god), which made him seem "normal". Spending a lot of time with actually normal, considerate people gives your partner something to strive for as you point out their acts of kindness and it will keep you sane, at least for a while.
Finding validation elsewhere
Submitted by wagnerism on
Spending time with generous friends and finding validation elsewhere personally frightens me. I say personally as I cannot speak for anyone other than myself.
Going outside the marriage for this means that there is less pressure to correct it within the marriage. I'm not saying that this isn't an option for me. This may be the only option for me.
I have specific fears that, if successful, I would become much less tolerant of the things that bother me with my spouse. If given a choice between more of the same frustration at home or some non-ADD-skewed time with an adult, I'd be gone every time and could grow to not miss her.
I feel that it you can be "cheating" without having sex. Basic friendship won't be enough because I'm hurting for normal interaction. I'm not seeking out this friendship from a strong place. If I pour my heart out to and confide in another person and I can't do that with my wife, I fear that my emotional attachment will drift.
Finding validation
Submitted by Gina57 on
I totally agree with you on the cheating/intimacy issue. It's dangerous territory when you go outside to pour your heart out about your marriage. I was talking more about modeling courtesy to your partner by being with her around others, so not so much an either/or situation (either you spend time with her OR you spend time with friends). Pointing out how nice it was when a friend would fill up his girlfriend's glass for her when she was reaching for the pitcher, how great it was that someone volunteered to take over the grill for a while, etc., really simple attentive acts that are sometimes difficult for ADDs to think of or initiate. If she's shy, it won't work at all, as you would be dragging her out or asking people over when she'd much rather be doing something by herself. But it's an effective way to get across what you value without having to complain incessantly. I personally found it such a relief to be around others with my partner so that I could do that without scolding or saying "please don't . . ."
...but what do we do about it?
Submitted by ebb and flow on
I'm the non-ADDer in the relationship and your description above about 'common courtesy' is astoundingly similar!!! (of course)
So, I get that part... Most of us feel when we ask our ADDer to help out to do a task/chore or hold the door open for us when our hands are full or spend time we get a mouthful. Attitude, excuses, "not right now" responses. And it makes our stomach just knot up and anger flares.
But how on earth are we suppose to change how we respond to them?
I mean, it's very human to want someone you love, and someone you think loves you back to care enough to pay attention to little details (or even BIG details) and help out or spend time. But what do we do when they can't? I mean they seem, on the outside, fully capable of helping but inside they can't. Or even, they used to help and pay attention but now they don't.
How do we continue to want to be around that person and give them love?
I'm all for hopping on the "vent" wagon.. but what now?
How do we change our minds about how things are suppose to be done, and when things are suppose to be done in order to accommodate our ADDer's disorder?
I mean, we are talking about a disorder and not some evil, defiant being who is doing this intentionally to stir us up on purpose, right? ;) (I wink because I've thought this on many occasions)
I don't know about the rest of you but before the relationship with my ADDer I was a very kind hearted, caring, compassionate, gentle and for the most part patient person who had their sh%t together. I think that's what drew him to me! But now I'm quite the opposite and I'd like to get myself back! Since when do I allow other peoples behavior define who I am as a person?? I want to be that person again.... And now is the perfect opportunity to practice all of those wonderful qualities I thought I once had.
But how? How do you get those qualities back and apply them to the very person you LOVE who's harming you the most????
Coping tips on how to not let living with an ADDer eat you alive would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Good Question
Submitted by Hoping4More on
I know what you mean
Submitted by Sueann on
It always seems like it's us having to give up things and remember things. Sort of like "well, of course, he's not going to do that, so I've got to do it." We have to remember what they can remember and how they communicate. I don't see them accommodating me that way.
If someone tried to create a website to for spouses of the mobility impaired to learn to accomodate us, they'd be laughed off the internet. We have to struggle and adapt to a world with stairs, that expects us to work and keep clean houses. But every time anyone mentions how to live with an ADD person, it's about changing us.
drained
Submitted by rapidly aging on
I find it very parasitic and not at all beneficial. I quite literally have aged 20 years in the last 10, while my husband looks fabulous despite never remembering to shave. I feel like he has drained the life out of me. I wonder how many of us were overachievers before this relationship? Now I have barely enough energy to make it through a single day...no time for hobbies I am always mentally drained by the juggling act of having to remember what he is and is not capable of and how to help him keep his job, remember things, etc...Tomorrow he has a special thing happening at work (usually Sundays are off), he has to get up at 5 am, he couldn't go to bed before 12am of course, and now I will have to make sure I am up at 5 to make sure he actually gets up when his alarm goes off and that he doesn't forget anything. I can literally hang things on the front door handle and he will forget them. Sorry I am just complaining.
Do sociopathic people have ADD or are all ADDers sociopathic?
Why is It your job to make sure he is up?
Submitted by Hoping4More on
I'm sorry, but if it were me, I would not take responsibility for making sure my wife got up on time, especially if she stayed up too late. Maybe if she went to bed at a reasonable time and asked me "Would you please do me a favor and make sure I wake up when the alarm goes off?" But I wouldn't make it my responsibility to do so, especially if it made me resentful.
I am not an alarm clock -- I am a human being
Submitted by Stagecoach on
After about 27 years of being an alarm clock, it struck me like a tire iron to the head what I had become (out of a long list of things -- objects -- non-living items I had become): an alarm clock.
One area out of thousands in his life that he refused to accept responsibility and control over -- correctly setting his alarm clock and GETTING THE HELL UP when it goes off.
When the other three people in the home do NOT need to get up at that same time, and the ADD person hits "snooze" 3 - 5 times so the alarm will go off again and again five days a week for 27 years -- rewaking everyone else who needed sleep, and when the ADD person does not set his alarm, or sets it incorrectly, and then when he is late for work for the millionth time, panicking as he runs around trying to get out the door, driving too fast and inattentively (as always) in a bid to avoid the wrath and disappointment of his boss and co-workers when he is not there to open the department on time (like that is something new and unexpected), when I fear for our financial stability/home/food because if he is fired who in their right mind is going to want to hire him.... And I find myself being an alarm clock in the hopes I won't be jerked awake by the snooze alarm 5 times this morning, that he won't speed and get a ticket that will raise our insurance premium, that he won't be fired, that we will have food to eat and a house to live in, that I can frankly get him out of the house for one more minute of the day so the pressure of living with this endlessly incompetent and cruelly selfish person will have one more minute of relief....
Then one day, when I realized my being an alarm clock was just one more non-living item I had become to prop up his sick world, I said, "No more." I let go of the illusions that I have control over and should act to assume responsibly for: getting the ticket; that I can somehow prevent him wrecking driving like an idiot -- getting injured or dying or injuring or killing somebody else; getting fired. Let him feel the consequences of his actions and inactions. Let me, for one glorious and freeing moment, be a human being at least to myself if not to him -- instead of functioning as a hunk of plastic and wires as an alarm clock.
I have not been a human being to this man for more than 27 years. I am some kind of robot that runs the boring details of his world so that he is free from the fallout that would happen if the basic needs of life (and legal issues like taxes) were not managed appropriately.
Do you know what he did a few weeks ago? His priorities are those of someone 12-14 years old (he is 48), and when his teenage nephew was here, they planned to go play war games on computers with my husband's two immature friends over at one of their offices at night. I was very ill with a respiratory infection which was triggering my asthma, and I had a migraine that was non responsive to meds. I had to be driven to the after hours clinic for shots. This new fill-in doc gave me not just the usual shot for the migraine (that makes me unable to walk normally, driving is out, I speak slowly, I can't take care of others in this condition), he gave me an extra shot that knocked me off my feet. My nephew (big guy) helped me get up the stairs into the house. Where my husband and nephew promptly left me to go play war games on the computer until 2 - 4 in the morning at the friend's office. I was left at home, ill and unable to walk or stay awake, while our two children (7 and 10), including the one who is disabled, were left completely unattended.
You see, I am not a human being to this man, so there is no moral responsibility to treat me as a human being in his mind. He recognizes other people as humans, but I am not one. He treats total strangers with kindness and acts of service that I could not pay him to do for me. And the children are an afterthought -- or no thought at all -- when one of my husband's priorities (war games, etc.) stands front and center of his world.
Until you have lived like I have lived, and been treated cruelly as I have been treated, you have no idea what Hell is like. But at least I have stopped being an alarm clock. There is that small thing to be thankful for.
The crux: how does one treat a human being
Submitted by Stagecoach on
It isn't even a matter of "how should one treat a person he/she loves?" It is a matter of "How does one treat a human being?" and "What is a human being?"
My husband is under the impression that his wife, and often his children, are not human beings. They do not deserve his time, attention, or acts of service that one would render to another human being.
I think those with ADD could benefit from a class on "What is a human being? How to recognize and appropriately treat one."
Kind of like making sure somebody getting a dog knows they have to be given food and clean water each day -- only more in depth.
human being
Submitted by rapidly aging on
I feel like your reading my mind, it is so eerily familiar...I often think to myself on a daily basis "we (kids and I) are not human" to him.
game night details
Submitted by Stagecoach on
I wanted to be sure I laid it out so you'll understand how bad it was. My dr's appt. at the after hours clinic was about 6:30 or 7 p.m. The children and I were left alone from the time I got home until the war games ended somewhere between 2 - 4 in the morning. This wasn't the first time the children and I have been abandoned in a medical situation. I have been treated this way and worse before.
human alarm clock
Submitted by rapidly aging on
stage coach but it perfectly below...I feel the exact same way from the loss of job, to car accident, to raise in premiums...all based on my experience from when I was not the alarm clock. Until I re-enter the workforce (1 more year) I am financially dependent on him.
how about a priority list
Submitted by brendab on
Hoping4More,
When I read your post, I realized that you have written exactly what I think is one of my biggest issues. I posted a few months ago asking if anyone had insights into how a nonadders rigidity might have a huge impact on these conflicts with an adder. I don't think anyone replied.
Sometimes as a nonadder I read some of the "rules" nonadders post in their hurt and pain and wonder where they got the idea that things must be done that way for them to feel loved and safe. I am not criticizing because I have my own "list of what makes me feel loved". So I walk around using this personal list to judge if someone loves me or not.
So where do we get the idea that our world is all wrong when someone doesn't hold open a door for us? Where do we get the idea that someone doesn't care or love us because they don't hold open a door? Did I see my father always hold the door for my mother and I feel loved when the adder does this for me?
What would happen if I could take just one action my adder does and make it my new belief that he loved me? What if he could do the same thing for me. Just take one of my actions and make it his proof that I loved him unconditionally?
Why are we always looking to find fault? I am not saying to just give up everything you want, but maybe there are things we can surrender as not necessary. What are the nonnegotiables? Can we make the nonnegotiables a short list instead of this long list of expectations that are surely to disappoint?
Perhaps I can take my long list and choose just 3 things and ask for those. Maybe just start with one thing that means the most. Just one thing the adder can do that will make me feel loved. And make it a point to give him affirmation that he is doing it the way I need it.
But this is a two way street, what is one thing the adder wants from me to make him feel safe. I got my answer this week, my adder said "please don't cry". I cry easily and that really makes him feel unsafe and confused. So I am determined to give my friend his one request. When I get this gift perfected, then I will ask what is the next thing I could give him to strengthen our bond.
Thanks for your post, it has me thinking about what I can do to get what I need and give what he needs,
Brenda
Great Suggestion Brenda
Submitted by Hoping4More on
She Agreed
Submitted by Hoping4More on
It's Not Always So Rigid
Submitted by Ren on
Breanda, I see your point. And I think that if the nonADDer observes that her spouse doesn't hold the door open for ANYONE, it's easier to depersonalize it. I think the problem is that sometimes it seems like the ADDer finds some common respect and courtesy for perfect strangers, but not for their spouse. It's hard not to create a narrative out of that.
In other words, if my husband remembers a coworker's birthday, and makes it a point to get a card for the coworker, but then comes home empty-handed on our anniversary, I'm not sure how to process that. I know my husband well enough that he's not being passive-aggressive, and we are working on our marriage so I know he's not being vindictive...so the only other option is that this just wasn't a priority, right? Which also means that *I* am not a priority. Because if I were, like his coworker, he definitely is *capable* of going out and buying a card.
That's the part that's depressing for me. I'm not even mad, because if I'm not at the top of the list, I'm not at the top of the list. But it does make me feel unloved. Not because it's *my* rigid rules for how to behave, but because they're apparently his rules too, they just don't apply to me consistently.
You are right, though, that that should not impact how or what I give to him. I should be the best spouse I can be regardless. But I jsut wanted to point out that it's not always as easy as changing your cognitive lens, because often the messages you're getting from the ADD spouse are very mixed.
I Know it's Not Personal
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Something else going on?
Submitted by shore on
You said "the only other option is that this just wasn't a priority, right? Which also means that *I* am not a priority"
I've felt that too, in the past, but now I think something else is going on. Something like ... at home, my wife feels she can switch off. The attention and focus she uses outside the home disappears. I don't think she realizes she's doing it. I can't say just what's going on. But I don't think that she's doing it on purpose, exactly. I've stopped taking it so personally (most of the time).
But as you say, you'd think that in the long term they'd be able to do the same things at home that they can do outside the home.
Don't do things at home that they can do outside the home
Submitted by Artemis on
How is it they are so charming and effective at work - then 6 years old at home? He is a district level school administrator! I have been married to mine for 25 years, he was diagnosed in childhood and took meds at that time. He acknowledges his diagnosis, and I have a MS in psychology. We have been in marriage counseling before, but the diagnosis was never part of the mix, because the counseling was for other problems (really!)
I am encouraged that he might be willing to meet with me and a therapist experienced in adult ADHD.
Ren, I see Brenda's
Submitted by newfdogswife on
Ren, I see Brenda's point also. But I experience the same issues as you do with my husband extending respect and courtesy to perfect strangers and nothing of the sort to me. It can certainly be depressing. I have know for a long time that I am not at the top of the list and it took me a long time to get over that. It hurts but life goes on. So, I have changed my list also and my husband is no longer at the top. At this point, I'm not sure where he is on my list.....
Can't ask for anything to be consistent
Submitted by wagnerism on
Others have contributed to this post in their way and they seem to tie this to love. My original issue is annoyance, not hurt feelings or feeling unloved.
My example about holding open doors was admittedly minor and I wish it was the only one. I have dozens - many of which I don't bother pointing out anymore because I'm beat. I had written more examples and deleted them before I posted because it could come across as a rant and obscure my point. My main point is that I miss common courtesy as a whole and the loss is highlighted when complete strangers will help you more than your spouse will.
Another poster mentioned that their ADD spouse will give these courtesies to others sometimes. I have seen that too and it becomes more annoying.
This isn't some list of rigid expectations that make me feel unloved when they're not met. I believe that my wife loves me and I have learned that she cannot show me love by being a responsible partner that consistently shows interest in meeting any of my needs. I am often annoyed that I cannot routinely expect any form of common courtesy from her towards anyone, especially when my son gets hit by a door that she let go as soon as she was past it... and I'm a jerk if I call her on it.
The thought of asking my wife to do one thing consistently is ludicrous, let alone three. I have done this before and failed. I'd be a fool to (again) request just one specific thing and make its successful fulfillment an indication of love. I'd be setting myself up with a specific indication that I am not loved because she will fail. The best I get out of any request is temporary success that tapers off with a boatload of contrived excuses when I reiterate that request. I can't gently remind her. I could rant them and pick apart details - but there are many other posts covering how well that goes over with an ADD spouse.
Asking her to perform a courtesy at the moment of need is often an utter debacle. Let's say I need a sugar packet at the diner table and she is sitting between me and the container. I choose to rudely stretch around her to get it myself because asking her for a sugar packet will yield anything but a sugar packet. I honestly believe that she has some problem that causes her to intentionally avoid possibly right answers and select obviously wrong answers - then contrive some BS to justify why she handed you a ketchup packet for your coffee. I am not exaggerating. You can try to attribute such a belief to frustration, but I have seen this way too many times to rule out my being selective.
The sucker punch is that I get really sad when her friends automatically do these things for me before I can ask - and I realize that I can't even ask my wife to do it "in the moment" unless I want ketchup for my coffee. It is a reminder what normal people can legitimately take for granted. I start feeling sorry for myself with the many burdens that I must carry because of my wife's ADD.
In summary
-I have already removed common courtesy as an indication that she loves me, but I'm still annoyed.
-She provides very little common courtesy to anyone, and does so on an inconsistent basis.
-Asking her to provide a single courtesy on a consistent basis has failed several times in the past. Examples would be ranting.
-Asking her to provide any one courtesy in the moment yields anything but that courtesy. The interaction is so annoying that I avoid asking her for anything.
It is possible that I'm stuck like this forever. She's starting counseling next week. Like all of us, she has other issues. I'm not offering to go to joint counseling for now because the last two rounds of it pointed at her to seek help on her own and she has not yet done so.
Inconsistency
Submitted by lori_fields on
I am the spouse with ADD and find consistency to be extremely difficult. I understand the importance but always have an excuse (seemingly a good reason) to do things a little differently. I not only find my husband frustrated a lot, but also become annoyed with myself when I can't find my keys or my car etc.. It becomes a joke in our house if I was consistence there would be no excitement. Taking an extra drive home to get the checkbook or wallet I forgot. Many of the strategies we have put into effect have worked, such as always park in the same spot..no matter what. A place to put the keys in the same place immediatly when i walk in the door. Small stickey notes placed in various places. Trying not to rush and plan things out. Many times my husband behaves like the parent with I find very irritating and I feel he needs to lighten up and laugh about my the small things and live more in the moment.
time
Submitted by Richard on
It will take time for them to stop treating you like they are your parent. you do have to remember they probably have been doing that for so long it's hard for them to turn that switch off. But keep it up.
we just want to share ideas
Submitted by brendab on
I'm sorry but it sounds like your wife may be more severely ADD than I have experienced. Last week I asked my ADD friend if there was one thing I could do to make our relationship better. He said "don't cry" Do you have any idea how hard this is going to be for me? And I certainly will never understand why he needs this (I do realize it makes him feel badly about himself, but why take it so personally? this confuses me and I am nonadd.)
But I am going to do everything I can to learn how to not cry so easily because I want to improve the relationship. I have not decided what one thing I want him to improve for our relationship. Probably the two things that have affected me the most is that he will call consistently for awhile and then suddenly he gets into hyperfocus on something and doesn't call for a month.
As a nonadder that makes me feel that I don't matter to him even though I understand it is the ADD. When that thought crosses my mind I have to stop and tell myself outloud that he is in ADD land right now, and it has nothing to do with me mattering to him. I choose to nurture myself. Otherwise, I will end up an emotional mess that only hurts me.
The second issue is the real problem. It has caused us to go from almost married to merely friends. He will make a promise and swear that he will keep it, then he gets distracted by some other plan and has no idea why it is a problem for me to adjust to his new "sudden priority".
As a nonadder I do not break promises. I read something a while back and it said "if you make a promise, you must keep it. If you need to alter or cancel the promise, you must humbly ask the other person if that is okay. If they say no, then you must follow through on your plans or you are not honoring your integrity. A promise is you word, your bond." This is how I live and I can't see myself changing this rigid way of viewing promises. It is one of my nonnegotiables and I don't think that rigidity is necessarily a bad term.
So when two people have opposite filters in the way they define the acceptability of breaking promises, conflict is inevitable. If I ask him to change this, it will be very difficult, if not impossible, because he has lived for 58 years with this mindset and it is deeply ingrained in his belief system. If I ask him to do this, I am also going to insist that he have a male accountability partner to hold him to his promises. He has to learn that if he wants to be with me, I have this one nonnegotiable that is going to cause conflict if I do not get it.
I can give in a lot of areas, but not this one. Only time will tell if he is able to do this, does he want me bad enough that he will just act on his promise by keeping it regardless of what else happens? I don't know. If not, there will never be anything more than a friendship for me.
there are so many variabilities in the relationships people share here and no one post is going to speak to everyone. Sometimes I totally understand a post and other times it is beyond me. I think my post did not apply to you so please don't think I was judging or being critical of your response to your wife. I just wanted to share what has been on my mind for some time. I wish you the best.
brenda
On the Subject of Promises
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Hey Brenda,
I totally relate about the promises. My wife jumps to make promises, from telling me she will be home by such and such a time, to telling me she will make a phone call (to me or to someone else) , to telling me she will do the laundry or something else by such and such a date, etc. I know she WANTS to kepp her promises, and INTENDS to keep her promises, but . . . .
My experience of her is that I KNOW it is very difficult for her to keep her promises. She is way more likely to fail than succeed.
And when she does "break" a promise, she predictably almost *always* has a *good* excuse, which I find infuriating. A *good* excuse in her mind is something she has *no control* over - such as, the traffic was bad, someone called her just as she was going to leave, something she *had* to get done before doing what she promised me took longer than anticipated, etc.
And although these things happen VERY frequently, SHE doesn't learn from the experience, and she doesn't take them into account when planning her time. Again, infuriating, even though I realize learning from the past is difficult for someone with ADD.
Like you, I feel keeping promises is at the top or nearly at the top of a list which might be called "How to live with integrity." And integrity is one of my topmost values in how I live, and how I expect my wife and close friends to live. If you are not a person of integrity, I don't have much respect for you, and I certainly don't want to spend a lot of time with you.
And, if you don't keep your promises to me, I am going to lose respect for you and also learn that I can not trust what you tell me. I REALLY don't want to be in a relationship where I can't trust what my wife tells me.
So, like you, this has been a very big issue with me.
How have I dealt with it?
I don't let my wife make promises to me that I know she is likely not able to keep. When she says "I promise" I refuse to *hear* it as a promise. This really sucks. Because I want to be able to count on my wife, and I hate that I can't. And SHE wants me to be able to count on her - she sometimes gets upset that I don't *believe* her. I will tell her I believe she *intends* to keep her promise, but based on my experience, I just find it hard to believe she will *succeed.* So in these cases, I consider it great if she is able to do what she says she will, but I don't get upset if she doesn't.
I only "hear" it as a promise if it is in fact VERY important to me that it be a promise she keep. And if I do hear it as I promise, it is very important to me that she keep it, and I *will* be upset if she does not.
So, wanting to improve the odds that she keep her promise, I spend some time talking to her about it, letting her know it is important to me, asking her what I might do to help her keep the promise, helping her think through about how she might handle those things which might occur that are not in her control, etc.
For example:
Her: I promise to be home in time for us to leave by 6.
Me: You PROMISE?
Her: Yes
Me: It's really important to me that you keep this promise.
Her (getting frustrated that I am beginning to "nag" her): I WILL.
Me: Is there anything *I* can do to help you keep the promise?
Her: You can call me at 5:30 to tell me it's time to leave.
Me: OK, if I do that, do you promise to leave when I call?
Her, (now totally disgusted that I haven't let it go): YES
Me: But what if someone comes in juts as you are leaving?
Her: I'll tell them I HAVE to leave.
Me: Are you sure you will do that?
Her (more aggravated): YES!
Me: Because I REALLY want to leave by 6.
Her: I KNOW!
So, just as I am writing this example, it occurs to me that I do this without having gotten her permission to have this kind of conversation with her. And this conversation is just one more example of how I so easily step into the "parental" role with my wife. Not good!!!
So, I think what I need to do is have a conversation with her about making and keeping promises at a time when she is NOT making a promise, to let her know how her not keeping promises has been affecting me. And then, and only then, if she agrees it is something she would like to do something about, ask her if she has any ideas about what we might do about it. And then negotiate WITH her how we might deal with it when she promises me something. Perhaps we'll come up with some other solution that I haven't even thought of. (smile)
Broken Promises
Submitted by SherriW13 on
Broken Promises was the theme of my marriage for many, many years. I used to be repeatedly hurt and frustrated when we would discuss (until blue in the face) an issue (him spending too much money, not coming home when promised) in counseling, he'd agree to a compromise (setting a time when he'd be home and sticking with it, spending only the 'allowance' we agreed to) and then literally walk out of the counselor's office and break the promise almost immediately. I could have ripped his eyeballs out MANY times. Man, the frustration was unbearable. I am not sure I understand it, to this day, but it has gotten better. This was a weekly, if not more often, occurance. It really is something I would like to try and understand.
#1 - I am about 95% convinced that he had ZERO intention of keeping his 'promises', just said what he had to say to get out of the house without a battle, not caring that I would be mad later when he didn't come home as promised. He admits now, after MANY MANY years of this behavior, that when I would ask for a time for him to come home, or ask for him not to drink a lot, etc..that he immediately decided he was going to NOT do what I asked..simply as an act of defiance, although he would look me dead in the eye and swear he'd be home at 11 or that he wouldn't drink too much.
#2 - things here were so bad that I believe this is why he was constantly needing to 'escape'. He would have never voiced that to me, for several reasons. For starters, even though he was 'escaping' he didn't want to 'admit' that things were THAT BAD. He felt if he could just get out, have some time to unwind and relax, that it was worth the price of leaving me at home believing in him that this time would be different and he would keep his promise, because otherwise he was literally just too overwhelmed. I was miserable too. I was completely under the impression that his staying out all the time was the 'cause' of all of our issues and if he'd just stop, then we wouldn't have a horrible home life. However, the main crux of our issues were us fighting over my step-daughter. We got custody of her and neither of us were equipped to handle her. (I suspect she's ADD too, maybe with borderline personality disorder). He wanted to be her friend, I stupidly took over as her parent, and our marriage deteriorated and his ADD symptoms went through the roof. It was horrible.
#3 - we had the parent/child situation going on and until I was able to FULLY let go of that and try and trust him then nothing got better. We separated and hit rock bottom and since last Dec have been rebuilding the marriage we both nearly destroyed. Things are much better and he rarely ever 'escapes' or doesn't come home when he says he will, so I'm wondering if there is a connection.
I also wanted to ask about your comment that 'learning from the past' is hard for ADDers...why is that. It certainly seems the case for my husband as well.
Sherri
Many times I wonder if my
Submitted by Asetamy on
Many times I wonder if my ideas of how life should be are just too different from my ADHD husbands. I see advice given to people who are looking to get married, that they should choose partners that have similar values about how life should be. I can totally agree with that but how can one do that if the person they are involved with has ADHD/ADD, and the way they view their values is how they would like to be and not how they really live. This is one of the biggest problems with my marriage, I believe.
My husband only looks at how he would like to be, organized, on time, clean, helpful, reliable and calm. Unfortunately he isn't any of these things. He is the complete opposite of this, but seems to feel that these are his values, which of course are my values. I have tried to explain to him that wanting to be a certain way is not the same as being that way. It's like someone who wants to be in shape and ultra healthy but is inactive and eats fast food everyday but tries to tell all their friends they have no clue why they aren't losing weight or in better shape.
Things is, I could care less about how other people live in their homes with their spouses/children. But I should have a say in my own life and house, and if his ideas of what life should be like (values/morals) are very different from mine, whether they be caused by ADHD or something else all together, shouldn't that be a deal breaker? Why am I looked at by him (and others on this site or otherwise) as an unloving wife who expects nothing to go wrong in a marriage and not someone who is just trying to live their life happily and reasonable?
It seems to me that regardless of what is causing the disagreement of how life should be handled, too many differences will cause the demise of a marriage. ADHD/ADD doesn't cause people to be jerks who only care about their own needs and desires. I can see this as being true on this site. A true partner, ADHD/ADD or not is willing to compromise and take into consideration their spouse/childrens feelings. I think that too many people with this disorder, have lived their life for so long dealing with things in a dysfunctional way, that they are unable or unwilling to see that others have needs and desires too and they aren't just being controlling and mean. Unfortunately I think many of us partners get to pay for the behaviors of other people in their past that have not been reasonable and our feelings and concerns just get swept under the rug.
I Somewhat Agree
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Hi Asetemy,
I understand your frustration with differences and feeling that it shouldn't always be you who "has to" change to accommodate your ADHD spouse. As the non ADHD spouse, I do not feel it should always be ME that has to make the changes. I also agree if there are too many differences, a marriage might be apt to fail.
I may get very frustrated that my wife does or doesn't not do certain things. But just because she doesn't DO them, I don't assume she doesn't VALUE them.
And it's not only my wife who doesn't always succeed in living up to her values.
I value hard work, yet sometimes I am lazy.
I value honesty, but sometimes I am less than honest.
I value independence, yet sometimes I rely on others.
I value kindness, yet sometimes I act mean and vindictive.
I value generosity, yet sometimes I am stingy.
I value faith in God, yet sometimes my faith is weak.
Need I go on?
ADD or not, I think we all have some trouble living up to our values. And I DO think aiming to live by certain values has value in and of itself. I'll take someone who aspires to be kind honest, etc. and fails anyday over someone who does NOT aim to live by those values.
I think we are all different in terms of the values we hold - nobody is a perfect match. I don't think that's all bad. Sometimes - someone with a value different than mine might even inspire me to adopt a new value. Or help me realize that what I thought was an essential value isn't really all that important in the grand scheme of things.
One reason I AM still with my wife is that I am convinced that we hold many common values, especially those that are most important to me.
Only YOU can determine the number of differences you can tolerate. Maybe some of your ideas of what values you hope to share with your spouse are non-negotiable, others not so much. Maybe it's possible that it's OK that your spouse doesn't always (or ever) succeed in attaining some of those values you share, but maybe there ARE some that if he doesn't succeed, could be a deal breaker.
I guess what I'm saying, is that we are all works in progress.
Well, I think it's pretty
Submitted by Asetamy on
Well, I think it's pretty obvious that no one is a robot and acts perfectly all the time! I was never once suggesting that. I was speaking of situations that seem similar to mine, which is that a person would like to be a certain way i.e. caring, respectful, loving, giving, organized, timely, but does very little, if anything to live these ways. For example, my husband will say he wants to be organized but he is not, his inability to even see that he is not this way gets in the way of him ever getting there. If you do not acknowledge a problem then it will unlikely get treated/fixed/dealt with. If I walked around saying that I was a giving kind person but my actions showed me to be rude, cold and hurtful, I personally would say that those are values that I wished to be like not that I actually live.
So, my question is, if a person "has" a value, what does it really matter if they never act that way? If I say I value honesty, but lie all the time, what good does "having" the value? I am interested in my husbands true values, the way he actually lives, and while its great he'd like to be all these ways he says he is, he isn't. He refuses to see how he really behaves and thus can never truely work on achieving the life and personality he so desires. This is what I was saying and maybe this is more clear. If anyone can give a clear answer to the question above, I'd love to hear insight because I struggle with this everyday......
values are action
Submitted by brendab on
Asetamy,
My two cents is this. Values that are honored are expressed in actions not words. Believe nothing a person says, but only what they do to truly know which values they desire to honor.
It is a waste of time for anyone to say "I value ....." and never act on it. Intention means NOTHING. If I tell you that I value my ideal weight then I would be my ideal weight, but I am 20 pounds overweight. I am living by my emotions not my values in this area.
You are right when you say "If I say I value honesty, but lie all the time, what good does "having" the value?" Saying I have the value for a healthy weight is wishful thinking (a value in word not deed) and not an honored value in my life. If I want to honor that value I have to put systems in place. These systems would bring me me success and stabilty and I would be highly likely to honor my ideal weight value.
It doesn't matter who you are or what your weaknesses are. Wishful thinking has to be replaced with some new system of decision making to exact a change in anyone's life. There has to be a desire for change and a willingness to stay accountable to the system you have put in place. If the outcome from your effort doesn't honor your values as much as you'd like, then you need to tweak the system. Living a values based life brings a deep peace and stability.
Brenda
walk the talk
Submitted by Clarity on
There's a saying that says I've been around awhile! How'd it go? "If you're going to talk the talk, you’ve got to walk the walk” or other old sayings like “actions speak louder than words” and “practice what you preach” are "old school" ways that remind us of how to discern a person's character. It is a very good observation.
My ADD husband thinks he is social person and yet he has one friend he visits with once or twice a year. I can't believe anything he says. He just likes to talk a lot about nothing. At least that's what it seems like to me. This week he "intends" to paint a bedroom, something I could literally do in a day. He's been talking about it for months. We'll see how it goes... (I will most likely let it go as it is his bedroom) When he left blue tape all over our living space for months on end I painted the space myself while he was visiting his one friend for a week on vacation. Months later, I finally mentioned it to him as he never even noticed.
It's definitely a pattern. This is his standard operating procedure. I like to think that when we know better, we can do better but we have to recognize what's going on and understand how to address it. We have to actively pursue it. My ADD husband believes he is a man that I'm not familiar with. He believes medication is enough and is quite happy with himself. Old school tells me something's not right.
Living Your Values = Integrity
Submitted by Ren on
Asetamy, I completlely agree with you that having a value is meaningless unless you live it. That's not to say that all of us don't fail sometimes in trying to live our values, but you're so right that being self-aware enough to know that you've failed is a part of living your values, because you know that you have to work harder to embody them.
I have been listening to a marriage program for a while called Marriage Fitness. I highly recommend it; it dovetails very nicely with Melissa's approach to ADD marriages (basically, work on changing yourself). Anyway, one of the components of the program is reflecting on whether you have integrity in your life. He does not mean "integrity" in the sense of honesty -- at least in the strict sense -- but rather alignment. The questions is, are your thoughts, intentions, and ACTIONS all aligned? If they are, you are "integrated," i.e. whole.
My ADD husband started listening to some of the CDs, and this one really struck him. He finally was able to look at his own life. In his words, he told me, "I know that I want to be a good husband and father, and I *think* of myself as a good husband and father...but frankly, my actions are not those of a good husband and father." He was finally able to see that spending 80% of your awake time at work, and then 15% of your remaining time on yourself, is not ALIGNED with the value of placing a priority on your family. So, he's started changing things. He cut back his hours at work. He made a schedule to put the kids to bed on a regular basis and to help with cooking. We have started going on a walk each evening, just to talk. It's actually quite amazing.
To be honest, I'm the one who's stuck now. Sometimes I feel us moving forward, and then I get sucked into a negative spiral of thoughts about my husband based on things he's done in the past. It's weird that you want more than anything for someone to change their behavior, but when they do, you (or at least I) have a petulant reaction like, "Too little, too late, buddy," like I want him to suffer like I did or something. I try to push these thoughts out of my mind, and usually I can. So now it's me that needs to learn to live my values.
Ren, with time and progress
Submitted by SherriW13 on
Ren, with time and progress you will eventually be able to let go of the past. Believe me, I can relate to this far more than I wish I could. Just keep pushing those thoughts out of your head, focus on being the wife, mother, and person you want to be, and it WILL happen. You'll stumble and have to get up, wipe yourself off, and try again occasionally, but it will happen if you truly want it. Never let any effort on his part, no matter how small, go unnoticed....it really does start a chain reaction that can rebuild what once was seemingly dead. Hang in there!! Sounds like you're doing great! Him 'seeing' his issues and taking action to fix some of the problems is amazing!! :)
Doing things in the house?
Submitted by wanda601 on
I hear you there! Anything that gets done around here as far as repairs go, I have to do; or hire someone to do. Hubby has tried a few times in the past, but he's such a perfectionist that he gets frustrated and starts ranting and raving and throwing tools, so I've pretty much given up even asking him to fix something.
I feel your pain on this. I
Submitted by Scarlet on
I feel your pain on this. I don't know if you read the other posting on how ADD sufferers seem to put everything into a "Now" and "Not Now" category, but I think this is what happens in my husband's head every time he breaks something or spills something or drops something on the floor or otherwise makes a mess.
It instantly goes into the "Not Now" category, to be cleaned up at some indefinite point in the future. He will NEVER tidy a mess immediately, and if I ask him to, he gets an attitude with me like I am being unreasonable. If only he was consistent about actually cleaning up his messes in a reasonable time frame, I would be perfectly happy. But the problem is that "Not Now" becomes "Never" and I end up walking by the mess every day for weeks until it drives me crazy and I just end up cleaning it myself.
What sounds like a tiny thing actually becomes a HUGELY draining issue that affects me multiple times every day.
Dirty shirt? He throws it on the floor. He says he'll pick it up later but I end up doing it after I get sick of walking over dirty clothes for a week.
Dirty diaper? He throws it on the floor. He says he'll throw it away later but I end up doing it after I accidentally step on it and get my foot and the carpet all wet and gross.
Wet washcloth? He throws it on the floor of the shower. He says he'll pick it up later but I end up doing it because I don't want to step on a slimy moldy washcloth when I'm in the shower.
Making a bottle for the baby? He spills the powder all over the counter. He says he'll wipe it up later but I end up doing it a week later when the powder has turned into a hard crust and practically has to be chiseled off.
Dropped the soap/razors/etc in the shower? He says he'll pick them up later but I end up doing it because I don't want to step on a razor and cut myself in the shower or use a soft bar of soap that has soaked in the wet drain water for hours.
Left the cap to the shampoo/toothpaste/other toiletry open? He says he'll close it later but I do it because I am sick of buying extra toiletries because the last ones tipped over and poured down the drain because he left the cap open.
Cutting up an apple? He leaves the dirty knife, apple peelings, and half of a good apple sitting out on the counter to turn brown and dry up. He claims he'll clean it up later but I do it because I don't want to see good food go to waste.
Spilled soda on the floor? He says he'll clean it up later, but I end up doing it because if he leaves it the stain will set and I'll end up spending even MORE time scrubbing the carpet further down the road.
Baby throws food on the floor? He just leaves it, claiming the baby threw it all a scant 60 seconds before he had to leave and he didn't have time to clean it up. He says he'll do it later but I end up doing it because I know if someone steps on those grapes and blueberries we'll have a stain in the carpet that I will have to get on my hands and knees to scrub out.
Litterbox needs cleaning? He says he'll do it later. A week later when the urine and feces smell overwhelms the house, I finally do it for him. Even though I'm pregnant and the doctor says I can't touch that stuff.
This is just a very short list of things that I encounter on a daily basis. There's probably 100 more things I could add but it makes me sick to even think about it.
And if I dare to complain about any of it, he instantly turns into the poor attacked victim. He accuses me of not allowing him to be human. There is no way to win.
Ouch
Submitted by BreadBaker on
That's horrible! It sounds like he expects you to be his maid!
My husband kinda-sorta-maybe cleaned up after himself, and I always appreciated that he made a little effort at some things, at least.
But living with him was like raising a slightly conscientious teenager, who's trying but doesn't quite understand why he has to. He looked so confused--then offended, then resentful--when I would expect him to clean up his own messes.
But, again, he did try. And I thanked him constantly for even the little things, but he'd never remember that. It made for very frustrating times in marriage therapy. The one time he took the initiative--all on his own, no nagging from me--to do something housey, I thanked him profusely.
In the therapist's office, he insisted--repeatedly--that I hadn't <palm to forehead>.
I felt like I needed to practically walk around with a videocam in order to show him just how many holes he had in his memory, and maintain my innocence--and sanity. You live with someone who tells you that night is day often enough, and you start confusing the moon for the sun . . .
oh I love that!
Submitted by Clarity on
Such a pretty picture in my head, (the statue of David) makes me smile, Thanks!
thank you...
Submitted by rapidly aging on
Love the David pictorial. I had two guy room mates in college. Only when I look back at photos can I realize how really good looking they were. Anyway, we got along beautifully, if I hadn't gotten a job elsewhere, I could have lived with them forever. Their rooms were cleaner than mine and they never left a mess anywhere, EVER...yes, they were straight, both are married now.:) Incidentally, both had sisters and were raised by single moms. Not even once in 2 years did they ever leave the seat up.
Don't let him get away with not cleaning the litterbox
Submitted by Sueann on
Some cats have toxoplasmosis, which is harmless to the cat but can cause a pregnant woman to miscarry or have a retarded child. You have to stand firm on that! What does he say about why he doesn't do it?
He always says he is going to
Submitted by Scarlet on
He always says he is going to get around to it "in a bit". But "in a bit" usually turns into days, and sometimes as long as a week. I usually give up after I've reminded him three times to do it. By the time a week rolls around, the litterboxes are so bad that the cat is tracking filth all over the house so I stand a greater chance of being exposed to something if I DON'T clean it than if I do. I just wear gloves and am careful. But it really pisses me off.
To Bunsy who briefly dated a man with ADHD
Submitted by best-is-yet-to-be on
Dear Bunsy,
I have only posted once on this site, about two weeks ago. Here is the link if you are interested:
http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/seeking-wise-counsel
When I read your post, I had a mixed reaction, total relief and then sadness. Your experience mirrors mine in so many aspects I almost wondered if it was the same man! (Just kidding, I know he’s not!) It is eerie how these men behave in exactly the same way.
I, too, thought I was going crazy, because of the emotional turmoil going on inside of me. My situation went on for almost two years. When I would try to analyze it, there was nothing I could really grasp onto that indicated there was any actual relationship there. I felt like a kid at the curb, waiting, waiting, waiting for the big parade to begin. And it never did.
But, he behaved and used words that implied, on his part, that it was about to begin at any moment. I think it was all an exciting fantasy in his head—unfortunately one I was drawn into.
I was delighted to read your post. It sort of brings things back into kilter for me, tipped things back into place. I realize this is not me, but rather a pattern that ADHD establishes in some men (and ADHD women, too) By sharing your story, you have helped me reaffirm, reaffirm, reaffirm: there was NOTHING WRONG WITH ME!
Thanks again.
PS. If you checked my link I am still sitting on that letter!
great observation
Submitted by Clarity on
I remember when I first read a list of symptoms that described my husband's "personality". My jaw dropped. I mourned. I wish I had the insight 30 years ago and moved on without him then. Your story is mine but, it never ends. I agree, it's like a deceptive trap and it can feel evil. Especially how you describe when he spoke sharply "his tone of voice (it only happened when we were alone, I noticed. In public, with others, he was enormously attentive and "yes darling."... kinda creepy.
All due respect for the relationships where the ADD spouse is taking meds and counseling. Both parties need to be willing to work together. Mine only agreed to take Concerta and Wellbutrin. At least it takes the edge off. If there was any counseling, I feel certain it would have little if any impact in our case.
Yes, Yes, YES
Submitted by Ren on
I know *exactly* how you feel (are we the same person?). I have to say I am so tired of MANAGING every thing.
I once told my husband that being married to him is liking driving a car with bad alignment. You have to constantly keep your hands on the wheel -- if you let go, the car will just veer off the road. It's exhausting to have to steer all the time.
I will say, though, that it can get better. My husband is starting to "get" it more and is really making an effort. He's starting to get more engaged and present. Honestly, sometimes I become the problem! It's like I've spent so many years wanting him to turn around and give me attention, and now, when he does, I don't know what to do with myself. I have nothing to say. I've realized that I no longer have access to the "I can't wait to tell you what happened" or "I just want to give you a spontaneous hug and kiss" part of my brain, after suppressing it for so long.
I need to think about why I'm not letting myself open up in response to my husband opening up. I guess this is part of undoing the damage that ADD has caused for so long.
I know what you mean
Submitted by LaRoyal on
Ren,
It's been 4 years of ups and downs, and bits of hell, in an 8 year marriage. My ADHD guy is making a huge effort these days after being self-diagnosed. But I'm having trouble responding too... it's as if I need to feel 'filled up' first after giving for so long. But that's not how it works! I'm trying to remember to praise every smallest thing. You will not believe how well it works... it makes him feel wonderful, and it makes me feel good about myself too. Let's see if this lasts....
Can You Tell Me More?
Submitted by Ren on
LaRoyal, can you tell me more about how you have managed this? I am very aware of the fact that I am not responding the way I should. It's like I can *see* myself not responding the right way to his efforts...but yet, I can't get myself to do it (consistently, that is). I don't know if it's some subconscious fear that he will be "off the hook" for all the pain I've gone through, or if I'm just in a depression, or what, but I am withholding.
I have read a LOT of marriage books, and all of them say that the way to healing a marriage is to give, give, give, and to FORgive. I know this rationally, but emotionally I seem stuck. I feel like my heart has hardened in a way, and if I can break through that I think we can really be on a positive path. I just can't seem to do it -- it's like my anger and resentment is a safe place for me and I don't want to let go of it.
Just trying it
Submitted by LaRoyal on
Ren, I'm new to all this 'bounty' of information about how we should be and act... sometimes it IS an act. My mother always said that whenever she hit a bad patch in her marriage, she just 'acted' like everything was OK and pretty soon things were back to normal again, and they let it go. My Dad was no angel (she wasn't that easy either :) but he was a really good man and this worked for them. So I grew up with that advice - it's a 'marriage workaround' :)
I started by pretending for a few days, stood away from my emotions, to see what happened, like an experiment. I think it's like how a pump works. You have to dump a lot of water in first, but then eventually the whole thing will run on its own. I have no idea if it will work in the long run, so I'd love to know what happens for you. For sure it can't hurt to try.
It Probably Will
Submitted by Ren on
Your mom had good advice, I think. I have read a lot of similar advice about "fake it 'till you make it," "act the way you want to feel," etc. so I'm guessing that good feelings come from good actions. If I wait around to get the good feeling first, it probably won't come.
I halfheartedly tried this yesterday -- I went on a walk after work and found myself in my "bad" place, kind of dreading the evening (because I was anticipating my irritation at *something*). I caught myself and decided to give myself a positive affirmation. I kept telling myself, "I can't wait to see my husband when he gets home!" I will admit, that just thinking this lifted my mood a little bit. I went home, but a little while later realized that my husband had come home, but had been in the garage for a while, probably fiddling around with tools or on his Blackberry, or something -- without even coming in to say hello to me or the kids first. I SHOULD have acted on my affirmation and gone out and acted enthusiastic to see him and given him a hug, but I just let myself go to my place again, and felt deflated. It really is less about what my husband is doing or not doing, and more about my reaction to it.
I just need to have the self-discipline to stand away from my emotions, like you said. That is the mature thing to do. It's very tempting to indulge in my feelings (and then wallow in them), but really in the end it's not making either of us happy. I will give it a try and keep you posted.
You and me both!
Submitted by suz23 on
This is my life. The great part is that as much an I love sex with my husband, when he does initiate as he often does, I am, like you, Hoping, to weary from doing it all all day and am too resentful of all the crap he lays at my feet these days to really engage. The bad news is that if I say no, it turns into this BIG THING about how I am not attracted to him and that he's tired of always having to initiate (the irony!).
Cognitive behavioral therapy
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
Cognitive behavioral therapy has helped my family in many of these areas.
Though there will always be times when I mistakenly hand someone a ketchup package rather than sugar. Damned brain disconnect. You'd think even an ADD brain can compute the difference between a ketchup pack and a sugar ... nope, not always *sigh* its so very embarrassing when thing like that happen I want to hide under the table for the rest of the day!
(PS wish me luck. I am due to give birth any day now)