I had a thought this morning....out of nowhere....I just wanted my H and I to be ONE of the success stories where ADHD and marriage succeed.
That sums it all up.
There are not many who post here like that.....because they are off LIVING their lives!
I wanted to BE one of them.....hmm.
Not sure why this thought is resonating with in me. I think possibly that the stories of both parties accepting the AdHD offer such hope and inspiration that "seeing" our own reality is ....disheartening.
While the non's take their own "journey" of self discovery and learning their part in reacting they themselves discover an uplift of personal discovery. I certainly believe I am a better person and want to share it in my marriage. However.....it does not lend to the marriage itself. It does not MAKE a marriage work.
And we are back to square one....with a better(?) understanding......and perhaps..a clearer view of what we knew all along? And time is flying by.....and we are losing sight of the value of this one life we ALL have? Life does not offer a DO OVER.....but a DO BETTER?
We here offer encouragement to distraught, desperate spouses. We empathize.....but seriously....we cannot offer hope for success.....that we ourselves don't have. Re-defining marriage by taking reciprocity and mutuality out along with consideration? HOW does that work in a marriage? All very interesting.
Just this thought......I wanted for my H and I to BE one of the success stories.....Why?......going to be contemplating that.
Why wouldn't you want to be
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Why wouldn't you want to be one of the success stories? Not everyone wants their marriages to work, but probably most people do. And marriage is pretty darn hard when one of the spouses has untreated or undertreated ADHD.
Imagine success (compared to what you have now)
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
AHDH and marriage radically lowers the non-ADHDer's standards to just avoiding the daily catastrophes where the ADHDer sits calmly in the gazebo working on their favorite 100,000 piece jigsaw puzzle while the non-ADHDer attempts to deflect the avalanche. Whereafter the ADHDers asks 'Is my sandwich ready yet?' Is 'success' that you also managed to make the sandwich?
If there had been a terminal
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
If there had been a terminal illness or accident or disability while I were still married, my then husband (with ADHD) would not have helped me. When an emergency occurs, he has a tendency to panic or, perhaps worse, say that nothing can be done and we should just give up. Unless there is a crime to be committed; he has shown a liking for breaking the law, at least ones involving money.
Yes, there are many things in life worse than ADHD, and I went through some of them with my husband, and they were worse, because of the ADHD.
Who would be the emergency go to?
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Poison Ivy,
Yes. I agree. If such emergencies or catastrophes did arise, I have no doubt that I would have been the one to lead the charge without assistance, emotional or otherwise.
What if there's real harm?
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I understand what you are saying. It's important to maintain a sense of self control over the situation. As in most things in life, you can only control your own reactions. Got it. It is also important to remember what's the most important. The relationship or winning the argument?
I think many on this board can be "okay" with some of the ADHD "misdemeanors" and overlook messiness and some level of forgetfulness, etc. I've said many times, I can deal with ADHD, but I can't deal with the real harm, the marital felonies. Honestly, I can't put it in perspective the way you are suggesting. Or, rather I can, put it in perspective and maintain a good sense of humor about MOST things unless we're talking about real harm. I think the concept of real harm has a lot to do with whether someone can maintain this kind of relationship or not. Real harm means different things to different people. I include the real harm of emotional neglect and undue burden as well.
I personally can't do what you suggest:
ADHD is causing impulsive actions and lack of follow through so I'm being lied to again but that's okay because I'm not on my way to a refugee camp today.
ADHD is causing executive brain dysfunction and we have cycled through another huge financial crisis again (4th time during the marriage) but that's okay because my son hasn't been drafted today.
ADHD caused lack of judgment and an understanding of consequences and harm to others and my husband is on dating sites but that's okay because no civil war broke out last week.
ADHD caused my husband to chase the dopamine rush of another involvement and I found out he was sexting my son's teammate's mom while I was standing next to him at a tournament but that's okay because he's not actually abusing me?
Or is all of this a form of abuse? Yes, to me it is.
No. I can't personally put it into that kind of global perspective. And these are the big things. The little things - the no follow through and breaking promises, etc. - IDK. I look at that as though they are glacial items. Glaciers didn't move fast, but in time, they were destructive or constructive, whatever your viewpoint, and changed the landscape.
What is the ration therapists like to quote? You need 9 good interactions for every one bad one... something like that... ADHD does make the healthy balance difficult.
Gratitude is important but I can't balance the day to day betrayals with such a big global perspective.
"What is the ration
Submitted by barneyarff on
"What is the ration therapists like to quote? You need 9 good interactions for every one bad one..."
Sigh.... this just hit a bunch of resentment buttons for me. I, too, was told this stuff and it's probably true HOWEVER according to the therapist I (!!!!!!) was the one who should do/say 9 spectacular things to make up for the one bad one. I don't think I ever EVER heard a therapist tell my husband this. Holy **!!@#!#!! I'm not the one screwing up all the time and making life difficult. How about my ADD husband do 9 things is a timely fashion for every one he #@!*!!@! up? How about if HE says 9 nice things for every 1 time he says "you never said that" or "I was was going to do that"
I was told this same thing with my rebelious son too. But even so, at some point HE needed to be decent. But no. He managed to get the therapist on his side and convince her I was some kind of monster because I wasn't letting him get away with skipping school and doing no homework. SHe said let it alone and he'll figure it out. Yup, he dropped out and ran away from home.
So what I need is another damned therapist to tell me another damned thing I have to do to make their lives better and more fulfilling. Bite me
They can start making my life more fulfilling or they can just go away. I'm so over being told what I have to do so they can function better. They can pull themselves up by their bootstraps or fall down and get run over. It's not my problem....
Geez.... that really hit a nerve for me.....
barneyarff....
Submitted by c ur self on
There is some things I must do, when surrounded by people who seek to use me, to carry them in life....
Recognize it....Never fall for it....Point them to mature and Responsible living....I must be comfortable saying NO...Never confuse Love and Enablment...
Therapists are just people, many have had no practical experience living life surrounded by victims....Much of their *advice* comes off the pages of man written, human behavioral books....As much as I respect them and their undertakings in life.....Many are as full of **** as a Christmas Turkey, when it comes to dealing first hand (daily) with a invalid minded victim...There are plenty of people making 100+ and hour giving advice for living, who wouldn't make it a week in my marriage....
just my thoughts
c
See, ADHD lowered your standards
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
If an asteroid stuck the earth and destroyed all life that would be worse than the daily trials of being a ADHD fire-jumper so just slough off that seared flesh and get on with it.
Don't you see this is an example of your lowered standards of 'acceptable' behavior?
This is probably a brilliant
Submitted by barneyarff on
This is probably a brilliant statement but it's too smart for me to understand. Could you try again with your example?
Thanks
Some people have the
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Some people have the philosophy that because worse things could happen, we should accept the not-as-bad things in our lives. E.g., "asteroid hitting the earth" is the worse thing; "spouse with ADHD" is the not-as-bad thing. I think this philosophy is useful if an individual is in a situation that they can't leave but less useful if used as an excuse or rationale for not making changes that would make the individual's life better.
Whoa! Taking it all...
Submitted by Zapp10 on
in. I so appreciate the responses from everyone. I find differing perspectives open doorways in my own mind help me with clarity for me, even if I don't agree I respect the giver.
What I have realized is I asked the wrong question of myself. It should have been...how? How were WE going to succeed? And I know the answer. UNTREATED adhd is a third party. Managing the symptoms of this slippery sucker takes BOTH people. It will not work otherwise. Oh you can be "married" legally. I want more. Told my H that...again. I stayed for 6 more years after the diagnosis. He is running scared...again. It is too late for me. If/when he actually follows through....it will be for him...not us.
Yesterday was the realization that I do not want to be married anymore. I am sad that I did not guard my heart from love slipping away. I truly never thought I would not love my H....as a wife. I am empty....though not of love...just not the love that was there for 45 years. This is a whole new ball game for me.
Thank you to all who responded. You made me laugh and I so needed that!
I am pretty sure I get this...willitgetbetter
Submitted by Zapp10 on
Gently and humorously put IMO. Pretty sure it was directed at someone other than me.
A little yes and a BIG no
Submitted by adhd32 on
In theory, I see your point. I know there are other people, even family members, with monumental problems but their problems are not really a concern to me and I honestly do not have room in my head to deal with very much outside of my own life. In my life I have dealt with some terrible, horrible things but there was external support and a comradery from concerned people who wanted to help. There is no support and a comradery from concerned people when you are dealing with the embarrassing fallout brought on by an out of control, untreated ADD spouse. You feel all alone.
Minimizing spouse's behavior because he/she only overspent $200 on a ridiculous impulse purchase rather than a $2000 purchase is like saying, oh well, at least it is only codeine and not heroin. It isn't necessarily about the severity of the infractions, both scenarios are bad, both broke the rules. Minimizing tends to lead to more tolerance of bad things and worsening behavior by my ADD spouse. He will fight tooth and nail to justify any impulse behaviors that break house rules or the law. I find with my H if I give and inch he will try to take a mile. If an allowance, one time favor, or a goodwill gesture is extended to my H, he has an expectation it will be extended again and again and becomes angry when it is not.
So now I have boundaries he does not like. I am willing to adjust my expectations for his contributions regarding the household. I am willing to accept his short comings but the thing I will not do is lose myself in the process, I will fight to the end to maintain my dignity and self respect. He can act any way he wants, say any thing he wants, look any way he wants and that is his right and responsibility. I do not have to stand beside him while he does things I do not agree with. This is one of the big things that make him angry; that I am not supporting his bad behavior.
Great post. I agree with
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Great post. I agree with everything in it. The last line especially resonates with me.
adhd32...
Submitted by c ur self on
(I find with my H if I give and inch he will try to take a mile. If an allowance, one time favor, or a goodwill gesture is extended to my H, he has an expectation it will be extended again and again and becomes angry when it is not. )
This is a dynamic that would be great for another post....I have to pre-qualify ( should, to try and help ward off her expectations, and negative attitude) every act of love and kindness to make sure she knows I have no expectations of myself to run interference for her own refusal to be responsible as an adult....If when she gets up late (want discipline her sleeping hours and activities) and asks me to make her a sandwich...If I do it one day out of love...The next she will be looking for it....So, we must say a simple NO....I will avoid being here at times when she gets up, just to make sure she understands, that she is responsible for doing the work to care for her own life and health....And if her countenance is suffering, the mirror is where she needs to be, not in my face....
c
This is a terrific post--sums
Submitted by dvance on
This is a terrific post--sums up many things that go on in my house too. Because my DH is able to hold down a well paying job, I find myself excusing many other things, but...he has gotten fired from every well paying job he has had after three years, so there is that... And at home-forget it. The messes, the half finished projects-everything everyone says here. The unclear or lack of communication is one of the most frustrating things, that I have to ask a grown man four or five questions to get to any kind of clear information and then I am accused of interrogating him is just ridiculous. I wonder if he talks to his colleagues that way-either in the completely unclear, obscure way or jumps down their throats when they ask clarifying questions--either one would account for his three year tenure at multiple jobs--who would put up with that?? At this point I have mostly quit asking anything unless I really need to know, which is also a bizarre way to live. Earlier this week I mentioned I had a few items to go to the dry cleaners and did he want me to take a few of his sport coats to the cleaners (he wears a jacket and tie to work every day, so we have to rotate which ones are at the cleaners) and he said he didn't know. Um...okay...I didn't think that was a hard question. Just a small example of bizarre communication. For me it's not that each thing is so big in and of itself it's that there are so many little things each day, each week, each month, that over 23 years it feels like a tsunami of bizarreness that makes me feel I am the one losing my mind. If someone forgets something one time, that's human, but if your person does not complete a task 9 times out of 10 that's pretty hard to function around.
The last few lines of the above post--he can act any way he wants, look any way he wants--oh boy. My DH now has this awful beard thing that is so unkempt and terrible I cannot believe that let him show up at a corporate job looking that way. I have mentioned it a few times and he says he likes it. I pointed out that it was exactly the look his father had and his father was an SOB of epic proportions--cheated on his mom out in public, made no attempts to hide it, verbally abusive, unemployed, a real jackass, not a guy to respect, so why he wants to look like him is a mystery to me. DHs nails are grubby and untrimmed--and he has a job where he goes to work in a jacket and tie. It doesn't add up. He is overweight, we have a gym membership, and he has spent these two weekend days sitting in his chair watching you tube videos on his iPad-not kidding. Their decisions really make no sense and while I am pretty good at disengaging, every once in a while I have to remind myself yet again to have no opinion. We never go out in public together, so it's not like anyone sees me with him, so what do I care what he looks like? Our lease is up in a year-May 2019-and this week I said I think we should look for two places at the end of this lease and he literally shrugged his shoulders and said nothing. What did I ever see in him all those years ago? I cannot even conjure it up any more? 23 wasted years right there...
I agree that it is the many
Submitted by Libby on
I agree that it is the many little crazy making things over many years that cause problems. And it is impossible to explain this to anyone on the outside.
H33...great points, and food for thought!
Submitted by c ur self on
(your reaction to ADHD is within your control.)....Speak for yourself dude!..LOL....Just kidding....
In my opinion and experience, it's not the acceptance of the busy mind's and the human behaviors that follow that causes the greatest pain in our relationships....It's the denial, and the prideful and defiant acts that STOP a heart...This type person SEE's only their only wants and desires....
Adhd is a state of mind, that many awesome, loving and talented people deal with...The intentional and sinful acts of fleshly living, is the death nail in our relationships...When a man or women justifies these acts, their spouse is completely helpless to be of any help... (the human part of us that is, no matter how much love we express to them each day)...(IMO)
I can't find a part to highlight Zapp...
Submitted by c ur self on
It's all part of a perfectly written reality for so many of us...It made this grown man wipe away a tear...Yes, learning to survive with boundaries, and self discipline in a difficult relationship can make one wiser...But as you stated, it doesn't lend to the marriage itself.... (no truer words)...
I too have held to the hope of our's being one of those success stories...But, success in our case can't be defined by my normal...Which is just another one of the daily challenges many of us face....But your statement that define's what happens when we take out the acts of; mutual caring, sharing and consideration is a truth that will always limit us, and cripple us as 2 being 1....(This is a fact we live with daily (knowledge that is always present) that makes pressing on with a positive attitude so difficult!..:(...But, there is another fact in my life, there is another always present with me...He is how I make it!!!....Never by my own strength.... I love this Zapp.. it's so the reality of what I've fought against for 10 years now....You wrote it so perfectly, and I needed to read it so badly this morning....
Blessings and thank you sweet lady!
c
I apologize...
Submitted by GiveMePatience on
EDIT
I apologize to everyone here, as I just removed my comment. I read the original post a couple of days ago and came back here to comment on it today, when I had some time. After reading through all of the subsequent posts since the original one was posted, I believe that I 'misunderstood' the intent of this post. I'm SO sorry.
I'm ALWAYS wishing ALL OF YOU nothing but HAPPINESS AND LOVE!
~GMP