It's amazing how difficult it is to accept the choices made by our spouses, that we don't like...I've known what to do (or, not do) to help myself, and her, and the marriage for quiet some time....But, knowing doesn't translate into the power to do, much of the time....When we determine by observation and experience (being subjected to it) that our spouses choices in life is detrimental to us, and the relationship, we (I at least) can't help but confront them and point it out....
I've come to realize a few things about this "pointing it out" behavior....First and foremost she has human rights, just like I do, (like we all do) to choose her path in life....It doesn't matter what her choices does to me, there hers to make...Many of us can and do complain about things that effect us....Real things! many that or abusive, thoughtless, hurtful, and destroys any ability to have a healthy attachment...One where we choose to love and honor each other...One where we choose to put each other, (our vows) ahead of all else that is earthly....(Do the work of the marriage)
It's very difficult to not point it out...But take a moment to ask yourself this question....Is my marriage (our connections, our intimacy, our ability to communicate, our emotional health) better off for pointing out my spouse's choices?? And what is my common state of emotion, (calm and loving, loud and demanding, threatening, stressed and anxious) when I point their unacceptable behaviors out?? And, what has been the results of your efforts?? How often do you repeat yourself?? How many years, have you been pointing out this non-changing behavior??
See I didn't like my answers to these questions...Because the truth is, my behaviors for most of our 10 plus years of marriage, has been intrusive to my wife...Because my expectations were overriding my respect for her choices in life...I have no right to do that to her....
God gives me my rights as his Son, and as my wife's husband....But, no where in scripture am I called to go past sharing anything w/her but, truth in love....And if I am doing this verbally, only then when it is sought and heard...(Loving conversation form)...My wife isn't dumb, she knows the call on her life, just like I do...When she makes choices that she knows are independent and selfish in nature, she is well aware of them...So am I....Pointing it out just created stress. justification attempts, and hinders unity and intimacy....We know...
Anybody, that had rather stay in a relationship, where one of the partners choices are so selfish, so intrusive and/or abusive, that it's impossible to have a healthy attachment. Then we should ask ourselves some hard questions, like, what that says about us?? Not them! They love their life...It's us that don't like ours! Food for thought....Who in this scenario is afraid to make a choice?? Hint, it's not my wife:)....
c
Who am I?
Submitted by jennalemone on
Yes, C, I have thought about this for quite a while too. The last couple years, I have wrestled with self hatred because of this very thing you talk about here. I am still in this marriage, even though I am frustrated at the life I am living. I chose to cope with a bad situation for most of my life. What does that say about me? How can I live with myself? H and I are very different. We were young when I fell in love with him....15 years old. Then on and off for the next 10 years and finally married when we were expecting a child. We both loved to laugh. We were both funny. He was a little wild and sexy. I was successfully involved with scholarly pursuits. Opposites attracted. Now nearly 40 years later, we are both still funny and can even laugh about how bad we get along. But I don't think his teasing and jokiness are funny anymore as he is oblivious to his lack of communication and immaturity. He doesn't appreciate my zest for growth and pride. So he is not getting the laughs and light-heartedness from me that he wants and I am not getting a trusted companionship/partnering with him that I want. How do I talk to my children about love and marriage when I am ashamed about my own love life and marriage? I feel like a coward too afraid to live life true to who I am. I have compromised so much, the children don't know the real me. I used to think of my life as a sacrifice for the good of my family toward the future. It ends that it didn't work out for us. Now I feel like a fraud. I have been trying to craft a perspective of the past and present for myself that I can live with and go forward with courage and strength and integrity. I am not there yet but this has been my challenge and work lately. I am in a poetry group and an artist group where I can express myself verbally and visually just for my own benefit. Life is a journey. Who we are changes with every choice we make. Sometimes we have no good options. We choose to accept and cope rather than jump off in a scary, precarious change. I've been doing some soul searching too.
I like your choice to meet your need for integrity
Submitted by overwhelmed wif... on
Hi Jennalemone. I have been thinking a lot about needs recently and how my needs are my responsibility. I like the way you have identified your need for integrity and noticed that you had sacrificed that in your marriage, and then found ways to meet that need through finding a truthful perspective, through poetry, and through art. Good work. You are a role model for me.
Jenna - I know you have been
Submitted by SweetandSour on
Jenna - I know you have been growing and changing a lot lately and I am rooting for you. I wish you wouldn't be so hard on yourself - feeling ashamed and like a coward. You were doing the best you could, as you still are. You had good intentions and goals and had everyone's best interests at heart. You had a value system and your individual strengths and coping mechanisms. Maybe now you see things differently than you did before, but please, you deserve your own compassion. There's no easy way through this life and you had no idea what you were dealing with (as far as ADHD spouse) or how to deal with it once you knew.
This is really laying it on
Submitted by SweetandSour on
This is really laying it on the line C. It's my continuous question to myself and the one people ask me and I get defensive about. I want to respond with some thoughts, but I need more time to be able to. One thing is, I don't know if I believe that putting oneself first and pursuing one's personal happiness is the point of life. I think the point of life is to love others even though it is difficult - but of course there are limits. Where the limits are, is the question. Maybe we don't feel we deserve better than this? Maybe we feel we are strong enough to handle this? I don't know. I struggle within myself all the time. To be continued ... if i can summon the strength for it. I'm absolutely interested in others' thoughts about this - including yours. Do you have an answer to your own question?
Detaching from their actions w/o detaching for my responsibilite
Submitted by c ur self on
. (Do you have an answer to your own question?)
Well for me, I'm a Christian, so I take my thoughts on all parts of this life, marriage included, from the words of Jesus (the gospel)....That is why I am still here, working to keep my responsibilities...I believe marriage is a life time covenant between two people....I didn't start this post to say we should leave....I started this post to say, I should learn to respectfully accept her choices with out continuously pointing them out....It's the state of mind that many of us stay in, that this post is about...It's our response to their lives that I'm questioning...It's how do we move past the effects of their choices, without allowing ourselves to be forced into a mindset we do not like? Can we live as faithful spouses, in a peaceful state, no pointing it out, no anxiety, no anger, open and approchable for intimacy, kind and loving...Giving to them all the good things we desire for our spouse to be to us?? I'm asking you guy's?
I know there are a couple of reason's scripture gives that can free us to move on....But, I like many of you love my wife...Can see her sufferings, her bad habits, her choices that don't consider me or her responsibilities that go unfilled, and not point it out, and just keep busy, be thankful, be kind.??
I know when I keep my eye's on the creator instead of the creation, I am so much more at peace...It has helped me to walk away from the things were there are no answers for me....My wife completely feels justified in her decisions in this life....So what good does it do, to point out problems she don't see as problems? Where there is no convictions for change, none is coming...So can I accept this, keep my eyes on Jesus, be thankful, and not point it out, not enable, not allow my emotions to be effected??
My thoughts have to stay positive, and thankful, or I lose.....
( I think the point of life is to love others even though it is difficult - but of course there are limits.) I love this statement S&S, Jesus was right, he was without Sin, yet he stilled died for me, so I can have eternal life.....You are so right, the point of life, is about loving one another! :)
So many good thoughts
Submitted by overwhelmed wif... on
So many good thoughts in such a short post, SweetandSour. I think about the point of life being to love others. But I definitely got to the point where I didn't love my husband. And, although he said that he loved me, I did not feel loved by him. He did not act the way someone who loved me would act. It has been hard to face that truth. I tried and tried to love. I tried and tried to be someone he would love. But I don't think he is capable of love. And all of the ways his ADHD hurt me (even if he did not intend to hurt me) got in the way of my loving him. So I was left with just trying and wanting to love and be loved. Which is definitely different from loving and being loved.
Your statement here is right on IMO.....
Submitted by c ur self on
( I tried and tried to love. I tried and tried to be someone he would love. But I don't think he is capable of love.)
I think you have put into a sentence, what many of us experience, but, hate to admit...My wife thinks I'm a great guy, but, I don't think the ability to truly love me is inside her....If it is, it's covered over by so much self love, it could never be externally manifested, in any kind of sustained and recognizable way....
Thank you
c
I think it is important to be
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I think it is important to be able to do things that are right even if they are difficult. I don't think the point of life is to love people who treat us like dirt.
Much of responsible living is difficult PI...I agree w/ you....
Submitted by c ur self on
Loving a soul (wanting good for them) vs subjecting ourselves to abusive treatment has to be separated...Only a dependent victim would suggest that you put up with their abuse, because they love you....It's a pretty good bet, that person has no idea what real love is....(IMO)
c
Very good post - Thanks, C
Submitted by Heart's Desire on
It's so very true - we all have choices. It took me a long time to accept my husband as he was - I thought by pointing out what wasn't working and providing solutions (couples therapy, Melissa's phone in seminar, books, etc) that we could 'fix' this, together, and that he would see his behaviour and make concrete steps to change it. But, he isn't able to do this. - to feel empathy and make steps to change for the sake of our marriage. So, here we are. . . Why do we work so hard on others? The work needs to be on ourselves. I did realise that eventually and just focus on my behaviour.
I've made the concrete choice to separate and I'm putting those wheels in motion now. This weekend I said the words I've been holding in for months (and possibly years) and requested a separation from him and we are moving in that direction to figure out what it looks like. I've finally been able to figure out the gaslighting and the put downs and give them a name through the work of an individual therapist - psychologically abusive. Of course, he denies it and puts it all back on me. I've become teflon. My heart feels like it's breaking into a million pieces (for about the one hundredth time since marrying him. . ),
This is so comforting to me Hearts Desire..Thank you!
Submitted by c ur self on
This post is so honest....It shows such a deep love for your husband...It shows a heart that was willing to go inside herself (work on herself) in order to find peace and meet her obligations in the marriage...
I love your comment about why do we work so hard on others, instead of ourselves....This is so key to a contented life....As long as my goal (efforts) were directed at fixing her, nothing got accomplished but making us both miserable...Damaged emotions, damaged hearts...But, when we turn to the man/women in the mirror, I'm learning that free's me from the the actions of another....
I wasn't created to place my self in psychological and emotional prison....And that is what I have done for most of the past 10 years, attempting something that is impossible...I'm attempting to free myself to live, by rebuking my own thoughts when they start speaking to me to get involved, where I'm not wanted, or welcome....Live and Let live....
Some lives are just going to be intrusive if you are in their presents....They may not be able to help most it...So that is why we must be able to dole out tough love....To say no to the attempts to be used, because they are to lazy and irresponsible to form good habits, and break the bad one's that they seem so tied to....We can't make them ours, and we can't discuss it with someone who refuses to even care to understand the impact of their behaviors on others, because they know they aren't willing to change....So where does that leave us when they want work on themselves....One place....Walking away....
Thank you for sharing this!
c
Choices
Submitted by DependentOrigination on
I think about this a lot as well. Choices. Criticizing. Judgment. How to find the balance between making a request in a relationship and actually wanting the person to be other than they are.
I think this becomes most obvious when someone (I) has stayed beyond the point that they should. I haven’t been on here for a long time. I separated from my husband in May, after it became clear he was not interested in improving our relationship, but was thriving in the status quo of avoidance, lies and a porn addiction.
He is in heavy counselling now. I quit marriage counselling in October after he blame shifted and called me crazy one too many times.
We are taking a couple of months break to see if I can call my brain down out of fight or flight and we both can improve our mental health. A break he only partially consents to.
I read a few of your most recent posts, C. I worry about you a little. You were a beacon of strength, rationality, wisdom, calm and grace a few years ago when I was full of anger and judgement and rage, having just determined that something very strange was going on in my relationship. There is a bit of a ragged edge to some of your words these days. I hope you are taking exceptionally good care of yourself.
Is it wrong of us to want them to be different than they are? Is it not just up to us to state how their behaviour impacts us, observe their response, and then leave if we are not getting our needs met? I have never had one iota of control over my husbands behaviour, no matter how hyper vigilant I became.
I wish that my brain could grasp the reality of lying next to my husband at night, a husband who professed to love me deeply, a husband that I attempted a very intimate relationship with, while he was looking at other women on the internet. I stopped forcing him to deal with his issues about 8 months ago, recognizing I can only control myself. He says I am trying to control him if I won’t let him date other women without divorcing him. I just say that is a boundary I am allowed to have.
Its definitely a fine line. I wish you only good things in 2019
Hi DO, glad to hear from you, hope you are well.....
Submitted by c ur self on
(Is it wrong of us to want them to be different than they are?)
Wrong? How about dangerous....When people crawl out on that ledge, of placing THEIR hope for a wonderful life, in another human being, there is no way down for many...There are so many of us, who lived so angry, and so bitter for so many years, wanting something that our human spouse didn't have to offer....So is it wrong for me to want to see change in a person, who for 10 years has shown very little ability or desire for change in her life?? I can't answer that for others...But!, ;).. I have experienced psychological and emotional damage in my life, by spending to much time on that ledge, and finding no way down....This is what drove me to acceptance of my wife's reality....No matter what it looks like to me....
The time I spend discussing what I see, experience, like, don't like about my wife, and her behaviors, day after day....That is precious time taken from my own life, (The one God gave me) that I am wasting...When I could be praying, worshipping, smiling, loving others, helping others, or giving myself needed care.....
I'm just truly tired of considering her, in way's that are detrimental to myself....I need to be considering myself...As God's Son...As my wife's husband...As a Father...A grand Father....a neighbor...and friend....She will do the work, or not...She's a big girl, she don't need me to preach, teach or tell her how to live, or how to care for her husband....I just need to be at peace....If I must go, go, but, be a peace with what ever I do...:)
So good to hear from you....And I wish those same "good things" for you as well...;)
c
thought about this line a lot
Submitted by dvance on
I have never had one iota of control over my husbands behaviour, no matter how hyper vigilant I became.
So that line above--I have been thinking about it a lot. Part of what I have figured out in therapy for myself (a LOT of therapy for myself LOL!!!) is one reason DH and I got together when I was 22 and he was 24 and then got married when we were 25 and 27--I grew up with a very dysfunctional mom and so I became HYPER functional/organized/goal oriented in response--the perfect counterpart to an aimless, disorganized ADHD person. I had a project (him) and he didn't have to grow up or do anything for himself. And for a lot of years that worked. Over time, though, add kids to the mix, I grew and matured and changed and my career advanced and I got more degrees and wanted different things out of life and he did not mature or change very much. When I stopped wanting to be Julie the Cruise Director is when things started to go south-he was unable and/or unwilling (realistically-probably a combination of both--lack of skill and lack of desire + no follow through) to pick up any slack at all. He still watches the same type of movies as he did when he was 26 and listens to the same head banging rock music even though is 50 years old--very little growth or change in his tastes or mannerisms or behaviors or sense of humor--he's like a frat boy in a 50 year old body. I tried mightily to control every aspect of our young married lives and for a lot of years I did and he was okay with it...or so I thought. It was only later when the other women and many other lies come to light that it became clear to me just how little control I ever had, if any. In our first round of couples therapy we addressed that but I suspect it was too late even then. The patterns were too set and he had so little skills to fall back on. Virtually anything I asked him was met with either a blank stare or "I don't know". If he did commit to doing something or planning something, like so many others here, the thing only got done a few times before it was forgotten or excuses were made as to why the thing could no longer be done by him. And there we were back to me controlling things again. Example: I do all our finances. Why? Well, DH used to take money out of the ATM and not tell me which overdrew our accounts. A month after purchasing a condo that was a stretch financially for us, he gave our debit card to a friend who needed money (like we didn't at that time??) who took out several hundred dollars and then DH stood there while I called the bank claiming that it ws fraud or the card had been cloned or stolen or something and he let me go on and on for a good long time before he came clean BUT was not willing to ask the friend for either the card OR the money back. I called the friend and DH was mad at me for being unreasonable because the friend really needed the money. Did I mention we had literally just bought a condo the month before?? He also bought a car and didn't tell me--parked it someplace else--and never made payments on it. I didn't know until we got served papers from an attorney. So yes, I handle the money. In couples therapy later, DH expressed interested in wanting to be involved in the bill paying. So we set a time each month to sit down and pay bills together. Now, by this time I had most things on auto withdrawal and had a good system down, there really wasn't anything to discuss-we don't have any investments or anything--the paycheck comes in, pay the bills. I have a monthly budget sheet with every expense listed--I can tell you what we have spent each month for the past five years. So he sat there while I paid stuff. What's to do together? So he got irritated and said forget it you just handle it. And here we are again. So instead he has four credit cards that I know of, all of which carry a balance from what I don't know. So he got his control that way--he has his secret whatever he spends money on that he can hide from me (we as a couple have zero credit cards so zero credit card debt).
What makes me so sad is I wouldn't think that control would be a thing in a decent healthy marriage. My friends who have decent healthy marriages don't think about their spouses that way. Why would you want/need to control the behavior of someone who has not only YOUR best interests at heart but also the best interests of the your couple-ness, whatever your shared goals are? For example, if a couple goal is to save for your kids college, maybe don't give out your debit card to irresponsible friends or get fired from multiple jobs or spend money foolishly. If a couple goal is to maintain a vibrant relationship with your spouse even as your kids grow and leave for college, maybe investigate new things you could do together, be open to trying things, do some things the other person likes even if you don't in the interest of making them happy. If a goal is to be a healthy person in mind and body so you can be a perky and lively and engaged person for your spouse for as long as possible, maybe cultivate friendships and hobbies that fulfill you independent of your spouse, maybe take care of your physical health as much as you can, maybe do more than sit on the couch watching you tube videos acting put upon when your spouse interrupts to ask you something. I wouldn't think those things would be burdensome-what I hear and see from my friends who have normal marriages is even with bumps and wrinkles as they move into these new chapters of being empty nesters, they still enjoy each others company, they are trying new things (tennis, couples yoga, cooking classes, day trips together) and no one acts like they are being controlled or forced or they have someplace better to be or the activity is a big interruption into their busy lives.
So it's not that I placed my hope for a wonderful life in another human being, I would have thought marriage was both parties putting the other's needs and happiness before their own which meant BOTH were happy (does that make sense??). Most of us have placed our ADHD person's needs and contentment ahead of our own if for no other reason than to avoid a disaster or a scene so THEY are happy but if no one does that for us then we are not happy, so that is uneven. It sounds pretty transactional, but a decent relationship kind of is. Okay, I don't know where I was going with all this, but those are my thoughts...
Thoughts
Submitted by DependentOrigination on
I think your thoughts illustrate the issue perfectly. We all have those thoughts. The comparison between how our behaviour would be constructive in a different relationship with a different person.
I honestly applied every rule in every marriage book out there. And got nowhere. I turned myself inside out trying to understand. It turns out I was playing a different game with different rules and totally different goals. Which is why my way of thinking didn’t work.
Most of us became married to create a shared life with shared goals with the intent for monogamy and mutual support. When you have that in mind and your marriage partner doesn’t, the relationship moves onto a different plane. And we either have to accept that we are not in the marriage we thought we had chosen or we have to move on.
My mental health is very fragile from the lies, the gaslighting and betrayals. I recognize I can only choose health from here on out. If it’s healthy, I move closer. If it’s unhealthy, I have to walk away. I don’t have C’s strength. Mind you, thinking about it, I definitely have a different pile of problems I am sifting through on top of the ADHD.
Thank you for your thoughts. I fight the urge to try to explain myself to my husband everyday. When you find yourself explaining basic morality taught in kindergarten more than once (I cringe at the number of times I did this), I think it is time to step back. It is very helpful to have this sounding board as a way to create a coherent narrative of the last few years of my life.
Love DO....
Submitted by c ur self on
(My mental health is very fragile from the lies, the gaslighting and betrayals. I recognize I can only choose health from here on out. If it’s healthy, I move closer. If it’s unhealthy, I have to walk away. I don’t have C’s strength. Mind you, thinking about it, I definitely have a different pile of problems I am sifting through on top of the ADHD.)
Learning to walk away from the dysfunction is invaluable!....Thanks for your compliment, but, with in myself, I too am very fragile...It's hard to not be, after what I have been through the past 10 years....Ladies non of us were created to have to pursue being loved, respected, and cared for...It's not our job to run behind our spouses reminding them, that they need to show up in our lives!...We are loved ladies...So very much!
https://www.google.com/search?q=utube+even+then&oq=utube+even+then&aqs=c...
c
Hi D...
Submitted by c ur self on
I agree w/ a lot of your outlook concerning marriage....But, (Just my opinion) the recreational activities of togetherness, really isn't the problem for most of us...It's not our differences either...It's the lack of energy (giving one's self) shown to your spouse...It's the lack of something intimately deeper than activities outside the home....It's the love, and honor, and effort of daily side by side living as one...Most of you wonderful ladies (and us men) wouldn't mind the differences in likes and dislikes when it come to trivial things, like book clubs, sowing classes, movies, computer games, fishing, hunting etc...If you had the type relationship you deserve...And was vowed to you....Marriages die from neglect of the other person, from lack of honor, respect....Not from who has a degree and who doesn't....A loving husband, who's wife is a high achiever in academics, house keeping, cooking etc etc....That only gives a loving respectful husband (or wife) that much more ammunition to affirm her with....When we have it right with in the 4 walls of our home...We want have to worry about whether or not our spouse will be up for trying new things (hobbies etc) outside the home...When the priority is on love, honor and giving our selves to one another...It's hard to mess that up;)...But so many of us suffer from neglect in the important aspects of being one....Who wants to go out and put on a fun face for someone who is selfish and neglectful at home??
Just my thoughts...
c
Yes
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I agree. My Ex H and I had many differences, but for the first few years we managed to bridge the gap and make successful compromises. It is really the lack of energy and focus and togetherness. But that is the death of any marriage, right, not just one with ADD involved. The ADD just adds another wrinkle and difficulty. I like the way you said that - it is the HONOR of living side by side, together. The trivial things didn't bother me. I'm pretty laid back (although you might not get that from my vitriolic posts) so 80% of life together was trivial. By trivial, I mean I am not upset much by someone else's personal habits. I never cared that my ex H had other activitiers. I cared very much that he lied to me to continue pursuing them. I cared very much that he cared to pursue them but did not care to prioritize time with me. He never criticized my activities. I was free to do as I wished, EXCEPT I was keeping the wheels on the bus so I didn't really have much free time. We argued about that. He though that I should just "do it". Like he did? By lying and neglecting the family responsibilities? Because he "did it" he never understood why it was difficult for me. Marriages do die from neglect and lack of respect. It is not specific to and ADD impacted relationship, but it does make the normal marital issues that much more pronounced. In the beginning, my ex H LOVED telling everyone how much he appreciated my efforts at home and with the children. But it ended. The personal attention ended and I guess that's the "IT", isn't it? The hyperfocus ends and then... what? I understood at the outset that things might calm down a bit after the relationship matured, but I was never prepared for the attention and affection to fall into an arctic ice chasm. I agree. When you stick to the basics, it is really hard to mess it up. When the values aren't shared and the basics aren't maintained, it's difficult to not mess it up.
Well said!...You painted the picture for many of us...(me)
Submitted by c ur self on
( In the beginning, my ex H LOVED telling everyone how much he appreciated my efforts at home and with the children. But it ended.)
Yep, after living with this kind of statement being made, you learn what this really means....***I'm amazed, and I will never try to duplicate or share in it***
Got that T-Shirt....Not making light, just trying to stay positive....The other isn't helpful for me...I'm very blessed no matter what;)
You know VBG...in reading your posts over the years....I've determined (in my own little mind) that you are a smart, refined, classy and hard working lady....
c
Thank you C !!!
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Haaahahahaha
I am those things, even though I forgot for awhile. Well, a loonnnnggg while!!! I got the t-shirt!! Thanks for the reminder. Really... Truly... THANK YOU!!!
Stuck in the past
Submitted by adhd32 on
very little growth or change in his tastes or mannerisms or behaviors or sense of humor...
I have been turning this over in my head for the last several days and I see it is all true. Thanks for opening my eyes to this reality. Did my H think things would never change? Is he clinging to the past because it was the only time in his adult life where he could manage his life? The carefree part where it was only him? IDK but I guess if he doesn't acknowledge change he doesn't have to admit it has happened. Good thing for him that he hoodwinked me, the big sucker, with the promise of love and devotion, to pick up life's responsibilities so he can continue to live in the fantasy land of the past.
In the 35+ years since we have been married he hasn't made any new friends. He considers his friends to be his group as a young adult. Most have matured and have moved on to real adulthood with big careers and lovely homes that he would disparage if we were all strangers. The friends include us in invites once or twice a year. H gravitates to the fringes at get-togethers with other underachievers and does not see that the old days are over and most of the group has moved up and on. He literally dresses the way he did back in the day because it is "comfortable". He looks inappropriate most of the time. He is happy dressing in clothes from 2 decades ago, tee shirt and baggy jeans. We have argued about his dress when appearance was important (like a wake) and I felt like I was trying to educate a histrionic 12 year old boy who didn't want to wear a shirt and tie.
His taste in entertainment hasn't change much and he bristles if I suggest going somewhere new. He has no patience, is rude, and he rushes through things to get to the end. Why the rush? I can't say, he never has a plan when we finish so what is the big hurry? I do a lot on my own or with friends I have made through the years so I can enjoy things.
Is it unrealistic to have thought that we, as a couple, would have grown together? I have grown and matured because that is what adults are supposed to do but he has fought tooth and nail to remain a carefree manchild.
I could have written this.
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I could have written this.
My Ex H still wears the same type of jeans and t shirts he did when he was younger. The same, now very outdated, type of tennis shoes and sandals. The jeans and t shirts were okay for their era and, frankly, his body back then. Now that he's considerably older and has added 100 lbs, he looks sloppy. He has also not made new friends. His old friends from his high school days through early 20's have moved on and done well. He used to ask if I expected him to change. I am 100% sure I pointed to those individualsj (not correct, I know) and said, of course. Your friends have gotten older and wiser. They have new knowledge which they have applied to their lives. Same. His family and old friends include him in get togethers from time to time. We divorced. He has returned to his old bar - the one he hung out at years and years ago, before me. He bought new clothes, but they're the same old baggy jeans and t shirts. He wants to buy the same model of car he had (and couldn't afford even then in his 20's), but is no longer popular. He wants to buy a truck (yes he wants two vehicles now) and fix it up just as he did in his 20's, loud speakers and all. I cringe. He was never able to suggest a new restaurant, preferring to only go to the same old places. He still listens to the same music. He became visibly uncomfortable and distressed in new environments and when exposed to new things. That behavior became more pronounced as the years went by. When we drove through the city, he was always SO suprised to notice something new, like he expected the area to never change!!!! It was crazy. I've changed through the years. I hope it's for the better. I HAD to mature to deal with the expectations of life and raising kids. In his case, I don't know if it's the ADHD or the fact that he lost his dad at 10 an his mom at 18. I think it stunted him emotionally. I don't think he's ever grown up. He's still about age 25 as a 48 year old. Interestingly, he asked out a girl at work. I say girl because she is. He wasn't "trading up" if you know what I mean. Wow. That's all I can say. I look better at my age than she does at hers. As an aside, I knew something was up with that girl before we even got divorced. I don't know if he was "doing anything" but he talked about her all the time. He left our house after a snowstorm to "dig her car out of the office parking lot". Duh. No one went to work that day. Dumbass. Anyway, to get to the point. She's about 25-27? I think he still thinks of himself at that age and views himself as her peer. Maybe that's part of our problem. I got older. Hello. You can look at me and tell that I got older. I don't have a magic bullet to remain in my mid-20's. In some weird sense, I think seeing me get older spooked him. Does that make sense? Anyone else with that experience. It's not like he looks like he's 25 either. But I think he thinks so. He hasn't grown up. It seems like he wants to pick up where he left off in his 20's.... date trashy women, get cars he can't afford, spend all of his time and money at bars...
She said no. I did want to add that because I'm not lying when I said it gave me satisifaction. I do wish I could post a photo. I'm going back to work. I'm going to put my petty card back in my pocket now.
VBG
Submitted by adhd32 on
I think you are on to something with our physical maturing and the undeniable passing of time. I have done the best I could to keep my appearance up yet he remarks about inevitable changes to my appearance as if he is some cut 27 year old and I am some old bag. Somehow in his mind I am the only one who has aged. The big laugh is that he is over 5 years older than I am and looks his age! I think he is reminded that his life is passing him by with the appearance of every new wrinkle on my face. A friend says our spouses use skinny mirrors with soft lighting, LOL.
My H is 60+ and often doesn't just glance but stares way too long at a young woman. I feel very uncomfortable for her; I have no jealousy I think H is an ass. I used to sarcastically remark (wrong, I know) that given the chance she would definitely pick him over all the young men around and would love to sit around watching YouTube videos with him in the garage instead of dancing the night away in a club to party music. It is disgusting to me because our daughter is the same age. He denies he is doing anything wrong. Ok, sure. Did you forget that I am standing right next to you? I say nothing now and let him look ridiculous.
Values
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I still, even this far after the fact, wonder about ADHD, co-morbidities and plain old differences in values. It turns out that we had very difficult values or underlying beliefs about relationships. I don't know if it's ADHD or something else. Does ADHD cause these differences in thought - differences that don't exist in a "normal" functional relationship. I've often wondered about successful therapy where ADHD is present. My completely uninformed opinion is that marital therapy might have a great chance for success if it's "only" ADHD. By that I mean there is no lack of moral compass.
Yes, I also became tired of explaining basic things such as it doesn't matter what your intention was. If you caused harm, you caused harm. If you didn't MEAN TO, it doesn't negate the harm. How could you not know that dating sites are harmful to the marriage and personally hurtful? How could you not understand that lying will not lead to a successful union? Once, my ex H said he didn't want to share finances because he would need to unravel it in the case of a divorce. Well, there are a couple of problems there. First problem is he wasn't "all in" and the second problem, which was EXCRUCIATING to get him to understand was that if there were no shared values or goals and if we didn't work together, there definitely WOULD be a divorce.
This is very rambly. Sorry. I have a spare moment.
Yes, I had to explain kindergarten behavior. Is this kind of brain wiring or something else? Chicken or egg? I have so many friends who have ADD or ADHD and they are not like this.
I agree 100% with your statement VBG....
Submitted by c ur self on
(By that I mean there is no lack of moral compass.)
Adhd causes problems with many things...All are manageable, and all can be (and should be) owned....Adhd does not produce sinful willful acts...Boredom is no reason to turn to porn or cheating on your spouse...That's a willful act of sin (IMO)....When there is no moral compass, there is no convictions to stop the action....***Hey self, this is a wrong thought?? Cast it from yourself***