Consistant inconsistancy

Some of the same, it's hello and goodbye

Submitted by dedelight4 on Sat, 12/12/2015 - 17:33

Liz, my ADHD husband does the same thing every year. I've always been the one to have family members over to my house, (and any other stray college kids or others who had no where else to go) over for Christmas dinner and relax and have fun. I was the one to get EVERYTHING ready, do most of the shopping, wrapping, ALL the Christmas decorations, food shopping, cooking and preparation for everyone to come. I would have a nice sit down dinner prepared, with everything I could do to have as relaxing an atmosphere as possible. But, this was always interrupted by my husbands "tornado like" entrances and exits and loud raucous jokes, etc.

We would have our dinner, and polite conversations, etc. But, at the end of dinner, my husband ALWAYS excused himself saying, "Well, sorry folks, I have a lot of WORK to do, so if you'll excuse me, I have to go". Then he goes to the room his office is in, and spends the rest of the day, doing WHATEVER. (a lot of video games and watching tv) Our family got used to this, even though we wished he would STAY and be part of the family. But, others who would come would find it a little weird. But, yet it would be a relief when he left the room, because of the tension he seems to always have around him/ or cause. He just doesn't seem comfortable talking to other people, no matter HOW much we tried to ease this for him.

Plus, there would always be something he would be "disappointed" with, in whatever gifts he was given. It got VERY disheartening trying to buy him gifts. He WILL NOT discuss this with us in a reasonable manner. It's always, "He does everything "above and beyond" and NO ONE does anything CLOSE to what HE DOES for his family. (such an INFLATED view of himself and what he does)

I got to where al most detested Christmas, because of his constant "disappointment" in the gifts he got. He was like a little kid that way. Santa brought him a fire truck when he wanted a Mercedes Benz. (for real) But, he didn't give elaborate gifts AT ALL. He could put such a damper and STRESS on the day, it wasn't funny.

THIS Christmas is going to be EVEN WORSE, because of his new revelation that "He's always been in love with his old college flame, and not me", thing. And, so we are separating a day or two after Christmas. What a way to celebrate Christmas. :(:(:(

But, he HAS to find out, that this whole thing "in his head".............IS JUST A FANTASY that he's been playing out IN HIS HEAD, instead of REALITY.

We would have our dinner, and polite conversations, etc. But, at

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 12/12/2015 - 20:38

<<<

This sounds a lot like my father in law (FIL)....and somewhat like my H. My FIL would either not attend, or if he did, he'd disappear into a back room to watch TV. A lot of his behavior was just plain selfish. He also would use his business as an excuse, but MIL told us that he wasn't working, he'd often be watching TV or reading magazines. Again, selfish. Not interested in other people. If HE had a story to tell, then everyone was supposed to listen (and agree). But, no interest in hearing anyone else's stories or opinions.

Because my H was brought up to believe that to be normal, he often does the same. He will go a lot more places, but he really is only interested in his own stories (I've mentioned in this forum before that my H can "know" someone for years, yet know virtually nothing about them...won't know if they're married, have kids, etc....because he never asks and doesn't listen...instead he's talking all the time.). One of the guys in his golf foursome died. On the way to the funeral, I asked H if the guy had any children. H said, "of course he does." Well...no....no kids and never even married. Yet, H didn't know that even though he was in his golf foursome for 10 years. That's when I started really noticing how H is when he's with his peers....he's talking non-stop. No wonder he doesn't know anyone's personal info.

I don't think what's being described in this thread is the result of ADHD. These people have ADHD, but I think the reason for THESE symptoms are something more serious....a personality disorder. Self-centered, narcissistic, etc.

there would always be something he would be "disappointed" with,

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 12/12/2015 - 20:50

there would always be something he would be "disappointed" with, in whatever gifts he was given. It got VERY disheartening trying to buy him gifts. He WILL NOT discuss this with us in a reasonable manner. It's always, "He does everything "above and beyond" and NO ONE does anything CLOSE to what HE DOES for his family. (such an INFLATED view of himself and what he does)

lol...does he really think he gives much better gifts? Has he ever been confronted about this or has been allowed to just sit in his delusions?

What do you mean by Santa brought him a fire truck and he wanted a Mercedes? Do you mean that while he was a small child he got a fire truck to play with, but he wanted his family to get a Mercedes?

This Christmas....

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 12/12/2015 - 20:58

I'm so sorry that you're going thru this. Even if your H really thinks that he's always been in love with this old flame, it was unbelievably cruel for him to say that. I don't really think it's true, I think it's just the "now, not now" thing going on.

But, the fact that he never thought about how wrong and cruel to say that to you speaks volumes.

I hope you realize that he's in love with a fantasy. Once he's with this woman full time, reality will smack him in the face. It may take awhile for him to admit it, but it will come out.

The holidays are upon us. I am doing all I believe I can to res

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 12/12/2015 - 20:01

<<<

The holidays are upon us. I am doing all I believe I can to respect my spouse in what he wants to participate in and what he does not want to participate in for holiday events. I am trying to make the best of the holiday season. . . .yet I am missing something. I made the usual holiday calendar. I share upcoming events with my spouse, then write them on the calendar. I have shared with him that I understand his difficulty in attending family stuff, and asked to let me know if there is anything he wants to attend. Otherwise, I will just believe he chooses NOT to participate.

That is sorta backfiring on me. I really do not like the not knowing. Sounded good in theory. It leaves me feeling life a doormat. Walk all over me if you want. . . . . . . .

>>>

I agree that "not knowing" is awful. Are you saying that he won't look at the calendar NOW and say, "ok, I'll go to A and B, but I won't go to C and D"? If he's leaving "his decision" until very shortly before, that's just rude....and selfish.

What's going on?

The new normal for Liz

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Sun, 12/13/2015 - 12:46

overwhelmedwife,

What is going on here is Liz trying to sort out what Liz does, and how Liz can find happiness - without basing it on out how my spouse is feeling about what I do.

The past several years, I kept my distance from my spouse's brother, his brother's wife, and their 2 children. The only reason - it caused disharmony in my home because my spouse does not have a friendly relationship with his brother. His reasons are his. I didn't cause them. I can't control them. I can't fix them.

It is nothing new. It has been a battle between my spouse and I, over my time spent with my BIL's family, for years. I chose to not battle about it anymore. I respect his opinions. I have my own. I love my niece and nephew, I love my SIL and I love my BIL. I make my own choices.

It is VERY difficult. I had hoped, cajoled, bribed, begged, - probably manipulated - for years. How crazy was that? I had to defend my actions every time I spent time with them. Now I take the stance towards my spouse of "You ain't the boss of me." I can choose my own friends. I can decide for myself who I want to spend time with and what I want to offer to them of my own time and talents. I decide. Liz.

I choose not to live with regrets. I have learned a really painful lesson - I cheerfully and without reservation gave up years of my own hopes and dreams in an effort to make my spouse happy. And it backfired, too.

I know my focus for many, many years was 'my marriage'. I changed my mind, and did things I didn't agree with, and gave up some dreams - because I believed with all my heart it was what I was supposed to do to 'make' my spouse happy, and keep my home happy, and be a good Christian wife. After years of doing anything/everything in order to keep my spouse happy - my efforts became harder and harder, and one day, I simply had enough.

In as much as taking responsibility for my spouse's demeanor - which was not the right thing to do - I felt controlled by his anger - or whatever he is dealing with that expresses itself as anger.

And so, as I write my frustrations here on this forum, it is VERY VERY difficult to keep what I say all about me. I choose not to judge my spouse, nor belittle him, not injure him in any way. I now he sometimes comes here and reads what I post. A couple weeks ago I posted an article from ADDitude magazine, 'Devastated by Disapproval.' He followed that link, and read the article. He said he really identified with what was said.

And. . . . . . . . . . .

Now what? Is this forum a path of communication? Is this forum a back-door attempt to once again try to manipulate him to listening? Is posting here passive-aggressive? I see his physical and emotional response. It makes me sad to see it. Yet, I believe I am being kind, deliberate, and focusing on Liz.

Just a bit jumbled up in feeling secure in choosing the correct emotionally healthy path,

Liz

It is VERY difficult. I had hoped, cajoled, bribed, begged, - p

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sun, 12/13/2015 - 23:20

>>>>

I think the position is sound.

When you say that you "don't like not knowing," and that it is "back-firing," do you mean that you don't like when you make plans that Liz wants to do, you don't know if your H is going to come along? If so, then why not assume that he's not going to go?

I Don't Think You Are Alone Here Liz

Submitted by kellyj on Mon, 12/14/2015 - 11:41

Coming back here for a moment in thinking about what I was offering you earlier about a "business plan" which might be another way to say "contingency plans". Not knowing what to expect or what you will do IF XXXXX happens never feels good. " What should I do? Where should I go? What am I suppose to do? If I do this...then this person won't be happy? But If I do this....this person won't be happy? It seems no matter what I do....someone is upset with me and I end up not happy no matter what I do?"

Does any of this sound familiar? I think I can help break this down for you and base what I have observed in some of the same things that you have mentioned which all have a familiar ring too them. Saying...I have witnessed these same things in myself and in my own families both.....my own family growing up...and my extended married families as well. There seem to be some common threads in what I have witnessed between them all and......the people within them namely in your case....the mothers involved. The one I see and hear in you the most is the same one I saw in my own mother which is very much a compliment to you in many ways.

I may point out the negative sides of people or complain about my different family members to point out problems and difficulties that I have had due to factors that had affected me while was growing up but when it comes to my mother and how I feel/felt about her to this day and in reality I saw a wonderfully caring person with a heart of gold who was willing to sacrifice anything she had for her family and myself and was always there when you really needed her. It was by far....one of her best and also worst qualities. Best for everyone else and the worst for her. Let me explain.

When I became an adult and had a different perspective of my mother than when I was under her authority especially when my father had passed away and she found herself alone in a big house that use to be filled with a number of family members that were still in need of her care....and now there she was....alone and without a purpose. I think right there was where my mother lost herself and her identity which was tied directly to being a mother in service of others. Without others there to be in service of.....she didn't know what to do anymore.

This didn't just happen over night....it happened from years of raising us kids and taking care of us when we needed her the most. She was always there and always made sure we were taken care of and all of our needs were met. Same with my father. She was the stay at home Mom who took her job very seriously. No slouching and sitting around watching Soap Operas (as she use to refer to it). She had a strong work ethic from her own parents who had their earliest beginnings raised on a farm with many children and a strong Christian back bone to go along with it."Idle hands" as the saying goes. This was my mother but to a lessor degree. And to a lessor degree still.... passed along to my sisters too. This is also normal I think with everyone. It's the same thing that gets passed along and not questioned but....it also never changes either.

When you said "because I believed with all my heart it was what I was supposed to do to 'make' my spouse happy, and keep my home happy, and be a good Christian wife."....this really struck a cord inside me too. From the male perspective....Husband (or father N/A for me)...I could have used the same words applying this to myself too. I thought all I needed to do to be a good Husband was to follow along with what I saw (that worked in my case) in my own family and just do that and everything would be fine. The problem was.....it wasn't fine. Something was wrong and didn't seem to fit which left me feeling the same way you do but not knowing what was wrong?

The key wording here in what I see where the problem is and where thing went wrong for me is..."what I was supposed to do". If you take a look at those words for a moment.....what you were suppose to do and what you did may not be the exact same thing. In my case.....I just tried to follow what I saw before...instead of paying attention to what what happening NOW and adapting and changing to the people sitting in the same room with me at the time. I was so busy doing what I was suppose to do....I was not paying attention to what I should be doing instead. What I found was that these really were two separate things now looking back. The only regret I had was not being able to see this sooner back then when I was making those choices. Instead of relying on myself to make these determinations....I was relying on "what I was suppose to do" as my means to guide me. Unfortunately....no one has a crystal ball to tell them everything they should be doing in the future to know that for you once you get there. I'm talking about long term goals, dreams and aspirations and projections of the future and where you see yourself within that picture. If these things become more than just a means to guide you towards your goals and instead become a forecast of the way things "should be"....then what you are suppose to do is exactly what your see as your means to get there but not paying attention to he changes that are happening all around you at the time. That includes your children as they grow up and change as they should be doing. In that case....simply maturing into adults is what children do....there is no 'should be" about it. You, I and everyone else....had no choice in the matter if you stop and think about it. However....as a mother or parent.....you do have choices when your kids are concerned and can adapt to them as they grow up and change along with them and not stay the same and keep doing the same thing that you thought you were "suppose to do". I think right there is where this get's difficult to always know what you should be doing and that doesn't always sit well or make you feel very secure. If you stop and think about this for a moment.....I think this is normal to feel this way and there really is not anything wrong with you when you do. It's not that there is something wrong or that you're suppose to do anything necessarily when you feel this feeling. It's just telling you that you need to do something and probably something different than what you are doing to make that feeling go away. Doing what you are "suppose to do" is the same as doing the same thing since it kind of gets scripted ahead of time in your future forecast of what you see yourself doing ahead of time and put yourself into that picture of what that was "suppose to" looks like. If you get there and the picture is different than you thought....it can either be one of two things I think?

It's either.... that something is wrong therefore...I need to keep trying harder to make that picture right.......or......you see that it's different and don't like it and now stand back and think about this for a while. "Which way should I go? What is the right direction? Which fork in the road do I take here?"

In my mother's case....she was so busy doing what she was suppose to do....she got so intensely focused on that that she forgot to look where she was going. The bridge was out up ahead and she kept driving full steam ahead in one direction and then suddenly (and abruptly) she went right off the cliff and found herself alone in a big house and having no idea what to do with herself anymore? She was so busy being a mother and taking care of her family....she hadn't considered the fact that someday....her children would be grown up and gone and even possibly....her husband (who was almost 10 years older than her) would be gone as well and she would be right where she was. Without someone to take care of as she had done her entire life....she was lost and didn't know what she was "suppose to do" anymore.

I think what happens each time we get to that fork in the road and feel that uncomfortable feeling again that you are describing....it's really easy to pick the fork labeled...."this way to what you're suppose to do" and take that route instead of the other one which leaves you feeling unsure, insecure and not really knowing what you are suppose to do. If you immediately take the first road to avoid this feeling....you will always keep doing the exact same thing each time and things will never change.

This is what my mother did and this I think....is why she found herself in the future back then...sitting home alone in a big house and feeling that exact same feeling once again but......now in that moment of time.....the road she had always taken before didn't exist any more. That bridge was out long before she got there and she barreled right off the cliff and landed exactly right where she was. The problem for her was....someone had always made those choices for her each time she got to the fork in the road. Either it was her parents....or her husband......but now she was there again with this feeling and now....she had to make that choice for herself and she couldn't do it. She had no experience and she felt helpless and lost in making those kinds of decisions for herself. She had been so use to being..."in service" of others including the "man upstairs".....she didn't know how to be in service of herself. This was foreign territory and made her feeling very anxious and alone. It is alone at the top as they say....but that phrase I think is just describing the feeling that you have when you have to make decisions for yourself and there is no one above you or has authority over you to make those decisions for you so you don't have to.

Another phrase that I always use to get past these moments is "a man has got to do.... what a man has got to do....you gotta pay the man and there ain't no short cuts." This is what they taught us as little boys and not to question this feeling and just do things "anyway"....just "because".... whether you like it or not." Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....just do as I say and don't question me...the great and powerful Oz has spoken.":) What I found was the great and powerful Oz was only in my head and really didn't exist.....and once I took a peak behind the curtain going against what I was told to do (what I was suppose to do)...I found only me there instead. I was the man behind the curtain and I was the one telling me what to do the whole time.....who ever that was telling me what to do suddenly vanished into thin air and then....there I was:)

The problem with this old antiquated sayings is.....it applies to women too. But obviously from the wording.......women seem to have been excluded from this expectation and I think that was a big error in thinking back then whenever and whoever came up with that one. Who was that anyway? Who's this we who is telling you what to do? This is the male version of...."what men are suppose to do". Bullshit! Not at the expense of yourself. If men are doing that version and not questioning it....and women are doing their own version and not questioning it.....then both people are not taking care of themselves and including there needs into the picture at the same time. If you look at just those two "suppose to do's" no one is getting there needs met and everyone loses......lose / lose as they say.

The problem for my mother in her case was that she had no contingency plans ahead of time. Once the plan she was so use to didn't work anymore...she was left without one and now faced having to design or devise one on her own for the first time and not having any experience in doing it. Why? Because she always took the "suppose to do" road instead of living with that feeling and just allowing it to tell you what to do once you get "there." In reality....."there", really is only this moment....your already "there" whether you realize it or not.

So if you are following any of what I just said Liz....with the same compassion I had for my own mother when I would beg and plead with her to get out there and do something different and not wallow in the feeling as if it meant that she failed or that something was wrong.......in her case, she did nothing as I watched her deteriorate slowly and sink into depression instead of taking the chance that something might go wrong if I make the wrong choice or pick the wrong thing....and just simply go out and meet the world and shake it's hand and say "here I am.....now what?" And then proceed with what is in front of you at the time whatever it is and make yourself fit with the world instead of the world having to fit with you?

What I'm saying is this feeling you have right now is normal. Nothing is wrong. You and everyone else who has ever been where you are right now feels this way and has felt this way for eternity. The difficulty is having to change and make those changes. But once you do that a few times....you will find that by doing so....that feeling goes away. This is what that feeling is trying to tell you. DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!! That's it. Literally! Not what you are suppose to do or some specific thing that is spelled out ahead of time and scripted and laid out and planned to death. Anything! Literally....anything different. It doesn't matter what...just that it's not the same thing you did before. What that is can be is anything and everything as long as it's different. That is all you really have to do....it's that simple.

In the mean time....you have to live with this feeling and not think something is wrong with you. When I say live with it.....I mean for quite some time. It doesn't disappear over night either rather....it slowly disappears as you learn how to make it disappear. That I think....is the only thing missing for you right now. You are as normal and human as everyone else who feels the same way you do right now for the same reason. You are different now than when you were a child and you have changed since then. I think the believe that things don't keep changing and changing again is a misconception. Wishful thinking that it won't? Possibly? Or maybe it's just avoiding the changes because it's so much damn work to do it. Thinking possibly...more likely:)

Speaking sticky for myself now......I have come to find out that "hard" never means "I can't".....but what is always true is that "hard" is a royal pain in the butt and that is something that never changes. lol

Bussiness Plan

Submitted by kellyj on Sun, 12/13/2015 - 12:59

Liz,

A passing thought here. If you went into business with your H as a partner before you two were together....normally in a partnership type business...you would sit down and predict all the aspects of allocating work, who gets paid what and what the expectations of each partner is BEFORE you open the doors for operation. This would require negotiation and compromise ahead of time. By having a business plan and rules to use as guidelines ahead of time that agreed upon...when the doors open and you start to work in running the business together.....each partner is free to do their part according to what suits them best. What the partners won't do is micro manage the other partner in how each one is getting their part done....as long as they are doing it and the results are what both agreed upon ahead of time so all these bases are covered and agreed upon so their won't be any problems. That would be a partnership type business if you choose this route.

A co-operative business plan means you are a sub contractors within one shared business and under one roof but each person has a completely different set of guidelines they they determine solely and keep there own books and separate identity within the business model. The only thing that is shared is the buidling you are operating in and any incidentals that might overlap between all the constituents. If so....everyone shares the costs of the incidentals like heating and cooling bills and anything else that everyone in the co-operative shares. That's another business model that works.

A corporate entity means that everyone is an employee of the corporation including the owner themselves (acting as the CEO) The board of directors meet as a group and make decisions together as one entity and nothing is done unilaterally that has to do with operations, pay and job responsibilities but under this model....even the board or directors are merely employees with different levels of status. The military is another entity that operates under this kind of model.

The biggest mistake I have witnessed in business when people go into business together is not having a business plan or model to work from which equates to no plan at all.....no structure...and chaos! lol Only problems can come from not having a plan like this but the first requirement in picking one is.....to PICK ONE and make that first decision then follow the plan and make decisions based on one of these after you do that first. Not picking one of these is the same as not making this decision ahead of time which again from the sound of what you are saying....is why you are running into problems. No plan.....no decisions have been made.....and no choice in which plan to use.

Trying to combine the plans won't work at all. That's the same as chaos and problems from the git go. I think you need to do this for yourself and predict this for your H and come to him with a plan and then......make him CHOOSE! He's got several choices to pik from.....but he must pick and make a choice. Your just coming to him with the ground work already and saying..." I don't care which one you pick....but you have to pick one. I will be Okay with either one you pick"

If you do this ahead of time and devise more than one option that will work for you....it won't matter which one he picks since you already laid the ground work for him and only offer plans that work for you for him to choose. Just make sure you thought things through and your not trying to combine more than one plan together and trying to make that work. It won't work if try and do this.

It's the same mistakes that I have seen countless times with everyone everywhere when they fail to have a business plan like this. I'm saying to use this as your means to find a plan....not to approach your H directly and say this is what I'm doing. Better to have this thought through ahead of time and all contingencies covered and simply go ask him which way he want's to do this but not give him the choice of not picking one. He has to pick something and tell you ahead of time so you will know what to expect and you won't be worried about what might happen. Make him choose, decide and tell your his choice but you have to be the one to make up the plan that works for you ahead of time in order to give him his choices. This way you have some say in how things will be for you and you won't feel like a door mat I think? It's also a reasonable thing to ask of your H and he won't feel like he is being controlled you or that you are trying to micro manage him either. More than one choice is all you need to offer him I think. It's not an ultimatum if you do this correctly.

Just a thought?

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