I am frustrated dealing with my husband who has both ADD and depression (both treated with meds). He has this "I can't" mentality that drives me nuts. Whenever I need/want him to do somthing that's outside his comfort zone he'll say he can't.
"Honey, can yo help me put the new car seat covers on my car?" "I can't figure them out". They sat for months until the next time i had my car worked on, and my mechanic did if for free. "Honey, can you find out why the lamp isn't working? Does it need a new bulb or is it unplugged?" "I can't move the bookcase to check the plug." (he doesn't have to, he just has to LOOK, but I can't fit in the space where you can see if from. Etc., etc., you get the idea.
The worst is "I can't hang up the clothes, there's no room in the closet." But he won't even think about taking the out of season clothes out and putting them elsewhere.
What happens is I have to do something I'm realy not physically equiped to do (I've got mobility issues) or something it's totally reasonable for him to do. It's one of the biggest frustrations I've ever had being married to someone with ADD. Do any of you have any bright ideas?
I can't-itis
Submitted by arwen on
Sueann, this was a big issue with my husband, too. I got so sick of hearing "I can't" about everything challenging or uncomfortable for my ADD spouse which I had reason to think were within his abilities (because I had seen him succesfully handle the same kinds of things at work). I basically first made up my mind to never accept "I can't" until we had exhausted every reasonable way to handle whatever it was and found that he really couldn't.
Basically, I started challenging these "I can't" statements (but in an exploratory way, not in a confrontational way -- I would say that I needed an explanation of why he said he can't in order to understand it, because it seemed to me from what I'd observed that he could). I would ask how did he know he can't? What had he tried? What had been the results? Had he considered alternatives x, y and z (if I could think of other possible methods)? How many times had he tried? (As I pointed out to him repeatedly, a lot of things don't work perfectly on the first try -- sometimes we need to practice!)
There was initially a lot of resistance from my spouse -- he wanted me to take his "I can't" statement on faith, naturally, since that would be much easier for him! But he also has known very well from day one that I am not the type who takes *anything* on faith, so it wasn't exactly a shock to him when I rejected that idea. At one point, I "mirrored" his "I can't" behavior for a while, which he found really irritating, but he got the point. (Personally, I find mirroring his inappropriate behaviors very difficult, because it is so contrary to my nature -- I have to be constantly thinking about what I should be doing to mirror, and cannot respond automatically to anything -- but if I am successful, the payoff is usually significant.)
Frequently, in the course of these conversations, he would be forced to admit that he really hadn't made much of an effort, and we would discuss trying further. At other times it was clear that he had put effort in, but his approach had been poorly conceived, and we would discuss trying again with a different approach. Sometimes he had tried a good approach and worked at it, but hadn't practiced it enough to be proficient, and we would talk about sticking with it a while longer. And of course, there were times when he'd tried a variety of approaches, worked hard, stuck with it and still couldn't manage to handle it -- at which point I'd agree that this seemed beyond him at the time, and stopped asking him to do it.
I know it can feel tedious and frustrating to ask all these questions, have all the conversations, and to be relentless about requiring a definitive basis for the "I can't" beliefs. But with my husband, it really changed the way he thought about things.
After my husband had learned to try longer or differently before saying "I can't", we began having somewhat different conversations about tasks outside his comfort zone. We stopped talking on the basis of "I can't" and started talking on a basis of what made sense. We found there were things he had thought "I can't" that in fact he really could -- BUT it was extremely difficult and time-consuming for him, even after a bunch of practice. In those cases, I felt that it would be better for him to spend his time and effort elsewhere, so even though he stopped saying "I can't", I didn't keep asking him to handle it. We also found that there were thing he had thought "I can't" that in fact he really could, and once he got the hang of them, they really weren't that hard for him to do -- that was a real revelation to him, and I think it made the subsequent "I can't" conversations go a lot more smoothly.
I didn't deliberately start trying to change the "I can't" dynamic with small or easy matters, since my husband didn't have a crippling self-esteem problem (more like minor self-esteem problems plus some "laziness"*), but starting with something simple would probably be beneficial if your spouse had real ego problems.
I don't believe from my experience that just encouraging my husband, expressing a belief that he could do things he shied away from, would alone have made a difference. He was so convinced himself that he couldn't do all kinds of things that he would not have accepted my encouragement and support without seeing proof of his ability to accomplish. He had to try and succeed despite his expectations! Rather, I had to effectively nudge him, step by step, into a discovery (on his part) that he could do more than he'd thought. And then rejoice with him and honestly commend him for his accomplishments.
Sure hope this helps in some way . . .
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
Thanks, Arwen. I wish I could do what you say
Submitted by Sueann on
I am 56 years old and I've already raised 2 kids plus 4 years of raising a grandchild. I just do not have the patience for what you describe.
When I read the horror stories on here from wives who've had it much worse than I do, I feel guilty. My husband is loving and gentle and doesn't mean to hurt me. He's taking meds and after we got him on meds, he found a career he really loves and is good at. It's what he's always wanted to do, he just didn't find the opportunity.
The fact that he doesn't understand why it bothers me so much to have to do all the work seems like a small thing. After all, he lived with his mom and she did all the housework, so he doesn't understand why I don't want to. Well, she was retired and she's never been hit by a car and he doesn't understand any of that.
I just can't see where I have the time and energy to do all that you do to live with your husband. The thought of doing formal meetings and specific ways of talking like you've described just seems impossible to me. I don't have the energy or the patience. You are a remarkable person. You have to remember how much he can remember and not overload his memory, you have to sit quietly while he thinks, which would drive me bonkers. I admire you, I really do, but I feel like his mom and it just doesn't work for me. But if I tried to explain it to wives whose ADD husbands disappear or cheat or watch porn or spend all their money, I sound like a wus. I just feel like all the heart has gone out of me. I'm not even sure I love him any more. The thought of spending another 20 years like this just makes me empty and sad.
sure can't blame you
Submitted by arwen on
There's no doubt that the approach I've taken with my husband takes a lot of time and effort, and I can understand that's not for everybody.
I'm also in my late 50's, I also have raised two kids (one with ADHD), though no grandchildren (at least not yet!!!) And I didn't used to have the patience, either, I used to have a very short fuse. Sitting still while he thinks used to drive me bonkers, too, until I figured out how to use the time without him being aware of it (e.g. think about my schedule for the next day, think about a problem of my own that I haven't solved yet, etc.) And I also felt like my husband's mom years ago -- I know how you feel!
So why don't I feel that way anymore? Because after my husband and I separated, my husband decided to take responsibility for his problems. He accepted that he had problems and that he needed to do something about them, *himself*. He stopped asking me to do things *for* him. He didn't ask me to set up the meetings -- this was his counselor's suggestion -- he didn't really want to do them (and to be honest still doesn't like them very much) and I was pretty skeptical at first -- but they did work so we keep doing them. He used to say that he couldn't think of any answers -- he stopped saying that and started trying to figure things out, *himself*. Sometimes he needs a nudge to get started, but then he continues on his own. Sometimes he found that things I did made it harder for him to think, and asked me to *help* him by changing what I did. Most of the changes weren't a big deal -- a few of the changes were difficult for me, but I also knew that what he was trying to do was at least as difficult for him, so I was willing to at least try. Keeping track of how many things he can remember is something I chose to do myself simply because it makes our relationship work better than if I don't.
Late winter/early spring *is* hard because of his SAD, but knowing that it will get better helps me get through it. I can live with 2 months of grief if I can get 10 months of pretty reasonable behavior.
I get the feeling that your husband is where mine used to be five or six years ago, before we separated and before he took real ownership of his problems. And if I were still in that situation, I certainly wouldn't be willing to do some of the things I do today. I must admit, there are days now when I feel like I'm my husband's *secretary* -- but I don't find that nearly so objectionable as feeling like his mom.
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
Can You Share Some Specific Examples?
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Hi Arwen,
I like your strategy of not accepting "I can't" until all other options have been exhausted. Are there any specific examples of how this worked with your husband that you can share? My wife doesn't often use the words "I can'T" but I believe that is what she is communicating to me when she says "You have such high standards." When she says that, I don't think she is always telling me that I am picky - tho sometimes she is because sometimes I am :-) I think by her tone that sometimes what she is really saying is "I can't possible do it good enough to meet your standards."
Maybe unmotivated, but not dumb
Submitted by Nettie on
ADHDers are intelligent. Bottom line to all that discussion above: test the statement. He or she may very well not be able to do something. So, train or delegate.
Or, they may weigh the importance of their tasks differently than you do (including the desire to hide from overwhelm by creating an "easier" distraction). In that case, it's going to take more drilling and attention to the causes and correction of overwhelm.
I can't resolution example
Submitted by arwen on
One of the memorable areas where we struggled with "I-can't-itis" had to do with our formal meetings. When my husband and I first set them up, we were separated -- in order for us to meet, my husband had to *travel* to wherever we were meeting, so he would set a PDA alarm for a substantial amount of time before the meeting, so he could be sure that he would have enough time to travel and arrive at a reasonable time. He only lost track of the meeting once while we were separated, that I can recall.
But after we ended our separation, and our life slid into old, more familiar grooves in many respects, he started having trouble keeping track of the meetings. He still had the alarm in the PDA, but he'd start "snoozing" it without looking at it, or turned it off while busy with something, telling himself to remember later on -- but more often than not, unsurprisingly, he'd forget (n.b. I can *never* understand *why*, with a memory like a sieve, he thinks he's going to just remember without any tool/trick/aid, when most people with good memories use post-it notes and other helping devices to avoid forgetting -- this is still an annual problem during his SAD season and one of the things that drives me craziest!)
The thing was, I *knew* he was capable of making meetings on time, not only because he'd done it during our separation, but also he rarely misses or arrives late for meetings at work (I know, because we used to work for the same company and even attended some of the same meetings). But in the case of this new problem with the formal meetings, he started telling me "I can't" keep track. Needless to say, with the knowledge I had, I wasn't buying it for even half a second. Frankly, I really didn't (and still don't) think he was trying to get out of them at that time -- I think he was just trying to shove the responsibility for them entirely on me so he wouldn't have to expend effort keeping track of them. It seemed likely to me that if I accepted that role, we'd end up later on in distorted-memory fights about how I demanded the meetings or imposed them on him against his will (as similar distorted memory arguments had happened all too often in the past). I also felt that if I took on that role, he would stop preparing for the meetings, which I also thought was very important.
So I asked him pointblank WHY he couldn't keep track of them anymore, when he'd done it admirably for 10 months while we were separated and didn't have a problem at work. He said at work there were other people around to help him remember the meetings if he lost track of his alarms, plus he would also sync up his PDA with his electronic calendar, and he would get a second alarm from the electronic calendar. I therefore suggested he put *multiple* alarms in his PDA for the meetings to simulate the situation at work. That helped a little for a while, but after a few months we were back to "I can't".
I asked why he was having a problem even with multiple alarms. He didn't know. I asked was he still turning them off thinking he would just remember? He said no. I asked was he snoozing them? He said sometimes. I asked what he did when he snoozed them -- did he *look* at the alarm item, or just automatically snooze it without looking? He said sometimes one, sometimes the other. I said, OK, then presumably at *some* point, he'd see the alarm for the meeting, right? What happened then? Well, then it would be too late to meet, so he'd turn the alarm off. At this point I suggested that the PDA didn't have much virtue if he was just going to postpone his appointments until he'd missed them, and then cancel them -- at the very least he ought to make an effort to reschedule! When I put it that way, he agreed that it didn't make much sense to use it that way.
We talked about other options -- could he make a special sound for the alarms for our meetings? (with his old PDA he couldn't, but when it died and he had to get a new one, he made sure to get one that provided this option) Could he, whenever an alarm went off on his PDA, *look* at the PDA each time, to help jog his memory? Yes, he could do that, but he didn't think it would help, as soon as he got back into whatever he was busy with, he'd still forget. I acknowledged this could be a problem -- could he do something else besides just snooze the PDA, like put a colored hair elastic on his finger (instead of the proverbial string) to help him remember? Yes, theoretically, but if he kept the hair elastics in his pocket, he'd just lose them. I acknowledged that could be a problem too -- maybe he could keep the hair elastic *around the PDA* when it wasn't being used on his finger, so it would be *right there*. Yes, he could do that, but he didn't think it would work. How did he know, unless he gave it a fair trial? Every time he raised an "insurmountable objection", I'd counter with alternatives for consideration to address the objection.
To be honest, I don't remember now exactly what arrangement we worked out (I'm sure it's written down in my meeting notes, but I don't really want to go back and dig it up, lol, I do enough of that with my spouse!). Whatever it was, it wasn't what you would call elegant with the old PDA he had, but to give him his due, he did give it a fair trial and it did help him keep track. When he got his new PDA, with more options, he chucked the old arrangement and made good use of the new options to provide a more elegant solution.
There's no question, this approach requires the non-ADD spouse to be pretty relentless, and yet to ask the questions in a spirit of true investigative problem-solving. It helps a lot if you are resourceful and can brainstorm solutions. Sometimes in these situations, I'd start out suggesting possibilities that worked for me, only to realize as we talked that the same approach wouldn't necessarily work for him because he lacked some of my abilities -- I'd try my best to rethink them in terms of his capabilities. This can be very challenging when you are first learning to do this kind of "I can't" resolution, but if you are approaching this in the proper spirit, your spouse may get into the same spirit (as mine did) and make suggestions that might be helpful, once your ideas have given them a nudge in a problem-solving direction.
Hope this helps!
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
hmm
Submitted by PALIDINE on
I am not sure I understand the reason for this technique. Then again I think I may be a generation below you. I also function in the capacity of never expect anything and ask for only what you can not do yourself. The issue I have is that my wife has tolerances for anything that bothers me much higher then my own. So if I feel like I do all the dishes all the time and decide to just not do them, they will end up growing things I will not even attempt to describe. She is also stubborn, considers it okay to dress out of the dryer. She is independent so she will get what she wants when she wants. So by attempting to "scratch backs" I will end up banging my head against the wall. Mirroring anything would only be punishing me 2x while she does what she wants. Oh the kicker? I am the one with ADD... This had led to a depression for me as well as loss of desire to succeed in life and I went ahead and kicked all my dreams and goals to the curb, probably selfish desires anyway, right? No time to pursue them anymore, dishes, trash, laundry, vacuuming, sweeping, mopping, dusting, 40 hours a week at work, part time undergraduate. Who has time for "dreams" or "goals"? There is a good thing though right? She wants to start a family! That way somehow I can take care of all the responsibility of offspring too! Needless to say, I am only putting this up here to vent and maybe get some direction. Thinking about divorce, counseling is out because I am already going on 4-5 hours of sleep a day as it is and I will not sacrifice more for this marriage. Besides I have wasted more than 100 hours of my life in counselors offices and it helped me none, did not even provide perspective. Now if any of you know a psychologist with ADD, I will talk to them because they may actually understand the words coming out of my mouth.
I Can't sometimes equals "I don't want to be bothered"
Submitted by TempusWife on
I have some frustrations around this. My husband will often refuse to do something (like put away spices in the kitchen when he's used them) because something is in the way. I'm not convinced it's because he actually can't deal with moving something a foot to the left. I think it's because he's still stuck in some mentality from his childhood or college where if he didn't put something somewhere, he's not required to work around it or move it. Instead he declares himself blocked and wanders off.
Sometimes it drives me nuts and sometimes it's just an annoyance but I refuse to "help" him by doing all the other work. We have a 9 year old and with children comes messes. I told my husband I was more than willing to do my share but was not his mother or his maid and wouldn't go for the idea that if it's not HIS personal mess, it was my problem. It doesn't work the other way though - abandoning mail on the counter because I'm the only one capable of tossing out the junk mail is okay somehow :) Things have sat in a pile for him for weeks before and eventually he's dealt with it.
At one point I did have to inform him that behaving like that means he's abdicating the ability to make any decisions on where things go or if they get tossed or donated. If he was okay with abdicating via "I can't" then I didn't ever want to hear about it again. That seemed to wake him up a bit.
A funny thing about the clothes issue I heard someone mention. My husband does the washing of clothes and I do the folding and putting away. At one point he kept "intending" to do the laundry - for weeks, literally. When I ran out of underwear, I did several loads of just MY clothes (this was pre-baby). He saw me putting it away and said "Oh, I've been meaning to do laundry. I need clean boxers." I responded with "Well, you better get washing then. When I had to do the job you promised me you would do, I just did what I needed. I figured you didn't need anything or you would have done it when you were supposed to."
He's never let it go like that again.
put a smile on my face
Submitted by brendab on
Tempus Wife,
At one point I did have to inform him that behaving like that means he's abdicating the ability to make any decisions on where things go or if they get tossed or donated. If he was okay with abdicating via "I can't" then I didn't ever want to hear about it again. That seemed to wake him up a bit.
that's it, they are abdicating any control when they won't take responsibility. I always told my kids this. If you want control you MUST take responsibility. One requires the other.
A funny thing about the clothes issue I heard someone mention. My husband does the washing of clothes and I do the folding and putting away. At one point he kept "intending" to do the laundry - for weeks, literally. When I ran out of underwear, I did several loads of just MY clothes (this was pre-baby). He saw me putting it away and said "Oh, I've been meaning to do laundry. I need clean boxers." I responded with "Well, you better get washing then. When I had to do the job you promised me you would do, I just did what I needed. I figured you didn't need anything or you would have done it when you were supposed to."
this was also such a perfect response to his "forgetting". It is great how you take care of yourself and respond in a way that puts the responsibility back where it belongs. Nagging makes women seem needy and irritating, but you've taken this to a higher level by handling his laundry procrastination by doing your own and saying "I figured you didn't need anything". Please share more about how you handle these situations. I think we have a lot to learn from you.
Brenda
Mess Clothes
Submitted by Pink on
My husband have a messing clothes... I won't iron it for him. I tell him you want to look good you have to figure out what to do. oh i can't iron and I can't do that. I said fine... wear it as you like. I think he learn this behavior from his mother. Because he doesn't like to iron (she doesn't have add) but lazy. she buy non-iron shirt or pant. take it out of iron and hang it. He think the life will be the same at my place. well... I live in bldg apt. I don't have high tech watch machine. I tell him you need to learn a new skill. I can't do it... I just ignore it and you can decide how to wear this clothes. I do do dry cleaning only during holiday for suit and shirt. otherwise you need to figure this out for himself.
Sometime "I can't " turn to "I don't' want to" but sometime I just do it... such as paying bill otherwise it still need to be done with extra fee. So the bank or other bills do not care about how you feel and if you can or can't do it. they will just add a fee to your bill until you can do it.
You did the right thing with your washing only your clothes. (like paying your own bill). Let him pay the fee for now doing this clothes.
The only sad part is sometime he get angry for his forgetting to do something. I just hate it when he blame me all the time.