First of all, I want to say thank you to Dr. Hallowell and Melissa Orlov for such an incrediby helpful site.
I am an ADHD spouse. I am 39 and have been married to my wife for 15 years. I was diagnosed with very mild Asperger's Syndrome (AS) at the age of 37 and then at 38 my therapist suggested I may have NLD instead. Bottom line: Both I and my doctors believe that I am somewhere on the "high end" of the autism spectrum and until about 5 months ago, all of my treatments and coping strategies focused on that.
An incident about 5 months ago led me to ask my therapist whether I had ADHD. I couldn't see how my ADHD traits were a pattern and not an isolated incident, so I didn't really expect my therapist to take the idea seriously. But when she said that all of her other AS/NLD clients have some form of ADHD, I immediately made an appointment with my doctor and researched ADHD. I then learned about ADHD primarily inattentive (ADHD-I). (For those of you who do not have ADHD, I cannot even begin to explain how utterly surreal it is to read something like a description of ADHD-I, instantly recognize you have it, then recognize you've had it your entire life, and then realize how many incidents you thought had nothing to do with each other were all linked.) Anyway, I got a diagnosis, am on medication, have regular follow--up appointments with my doctor, and continue to get therapy.
I now feel like ADHD-I, not AS or NLD, has been my #1 obstacle in life. This discovery has been very valuable because the tips I've picked up for coping with ADHD have been much more helpful (for me) than the tips I've picked up for AS/NLD. I know I have a lot more to learn and am working hard to compensate for my weaknesses. I am proud of the fact that I was open-minded and proactive enough to recognize I had a problem, sought out a diagnosis on my own, take medication, get therapy, and read wonderful sites like this. Also, my wife and I are in couples counseling. I have a very successful career (albeit at the expense of my marriage in the past) and contribute financially to the family. That's the good news (I think).
The bad news is that I am coming to terms with how much damage I've done to my relationship with my wife.
* For most of our marriage, I was not very helpful around the house.
* For the first few months after our first child was born, I wasn't very helpful with the baby, either.
* My wife is a giver. I have been a taker. I probably still am.
* I have a tendency to interpret everything literally. This causes all sorts of communication problems. I know this. I don't like it. I want to stop doing it. I have no idea how. When I am told I take things literally and I am given the non-literal explanation, I think I do a good job at not getting defensive. And I am usually very good at seeing how the literal words could have been used in a non-literal way. But none of this helps prevent the tendency to take things lierally. The mere awareness that I have this tendency is quite literally (no pun intended) worthless as a tool for preventing me from doing it.
* My wife is exhausted and has tried to tell me in so many ways, but I'm unable to see the big picture. When she mentions specific examples, I think I do a decent job at fixing those specific problems. But she tells me I am not getting the big picture and haven't fixed the root cause. I accept that.
* My wife feels intense sadness, hurt, disappointment, frustration, anger, and rage at me. I'm starting to understand how my actions have impacted her.
* I have a tendency to hyperfocus at the expense of her, the kids, the house.
I am trying very hard to make changes, but I worry it may be too little too late. She has engaged in classic character assassination (attacking me personally, questioning my integrity, intelligence level, telling me she doesn't respect me, etc.). She is dismissive of my feelings. She has shouted at me in front of our kids, threatened me with divorce in front of the kids, and physically attacked (she even did this once in front of the kids). I am starting to wonder if there is a vicious cycle going on, where the more emotional stress I feel, the more my ADHD symptoms impact my behavior.
I am finding it incredibly demoralizing to be treated in such a combative way. I sometimes think about giving up on the marriage. I take responsibility for my mistakes (to the best of limited ability to understand them), but I also feel that I deserve to be treated with respect.
Thanks for listening. Any words of advice or encouragement would be appreciated.
Jerry
I am your wife. While there
Submitted by Ki on
I am your wife. While there is no excuse for that type of behavior it is a process of the non-adder being systematically dismantled as a person. When I first met my husband I was kind, had the patience of God, could forgive and forget easily, I encouraged, gave and gave and gave, I even smiled. Over the past 9 years every bit of that goodness has been sucked out of me, I describe it to him that he has taken everything good out of me and left me a battered, broken, and bitter person. I'll give some examples of the type of things he does to me.
- I went out of town and didn't have a key to our apartment. I was returning the late the night before a Monday (I had to go to work on Monday, he didn't because as per usually he had gotten fired and was unemploye). I told him multiple times what time I was arriving, I would call him when I got back into town, I would call him again when I got near the apartment and that he HAD to be there because I had to be at work early. Well he never showed up. I stood outside on the street at from 10pm to 12am calling him, calling family members, and his friends, No one knew where he was or had heard from him. Then fear set in, I thought he had gotten hurt, robbed, you name it. So I had to wake up the inlaws (who also had to work in the morning) ask them if I could come to their home and sleep. Took a looooooong subway ride to their house, I'm exhausted and embarassed, they're pissed and yelling and me because about him.
About 1 am I guess he saw the 90 missed calls on his cellphone finally and decided to call back. Where was he? Hanging out with a stranger that he was giving a sports lesson to arguing about technique. His excuse, "Wel I couldn't leave them thinking they were right so I had to argue my point. As soon as I finished I called you back". Meaning he totally forgot about me, got focused on this conversation, and I was expendable.
-We saved up money for our wedding (and this should have been my time to call it quits). He looses his job (again) right before the wedding because he blurts out stuff and offended a customer. So essentially we blow through all of our savings trying to pay for things like food and the rent and him to have train fare to go look for a job. My mother ended up taking out a loan to cover the loses because even if we didn't get married, we still owed the money.
-He lies, and when I say lies, I mean lies about the most idiotic stuff. I can call him and say, "Did you take out that giant box your bike came in that is sitting in the living room? And he'll say "yes, of course I did." I'll walk in the house and the BIG GIANT BOX is sitting right there with him sitting on the couch watching T.V. with his feet on it.
-Or "what time is your Dr. Appoint?"
"It's at 10pm"
"Really? because the Drs office closes at 6."
"It's at 6"
"Did you make your appointment even?"
"Yes, no, well I was, but I didn't but I think I did. So yes."
"Did you make your appointment?"
"No"
-Constant financially chaos because of constant job loss for dumb stuff, normally stuff everyone around him tell him NOT to do, "Stop joking around with customers and clients, you might say something inappropriate, stop sleeping on the job parking lot in your uniform, "No its fine, as long as I'm not on the clock.... ....Oh look I got fired for that, I just don't understand!"
-Communication difficulties
"I wondering why number #2 pencils are called that"
"Its because they add black ink to the lead and then bake it so the color is darkest" (While he is watching an infomercial about a rotisserie and the host said the word "Bake" and "dark color"
-I've take out loans to help him through get a college education to help with his job prospects, twice, he's failed out. I've ran up a CC card I paid off to help him go to a technical trade school. He failed out. We've been to marital counseling 3 different times, and I've gone to counseling on 4 different occassions just for my self.
I live with a person that I can't have a basic conversation with nevermind about anything important.
I live with a person that even the most miniscule things he says can't be trusted as truth and not something he made up because he got 5 different things jumbled together.
I live with a person who has been through now 17 jobs in 6 years and we are on the verge of bankruptcy.
I live with a person who everyone and everything can distract him from me, but I can't distract him enough to get his attention myself.
I live with a person that it takes him 5 hours to do something that a normal person its a 5 minute deal because EVERYTHING is a distraction.
I live with a person that I have to constantly remind over and over and over again just for him to forget.
We disrupt the lives of our parents because we are always begging for money. My credit is runined because I've had to max out all my CC cards and miss payments just to keep food in our mouths and food over our heads.
And the worst is, I get up everyday, go to work, pay the bills, handle the social calendar, handle the home (including repairs), take care of the baby, clean up all the messes he makes, reads all the books on patience, forgiveness, being a good wife, being a godly wife, I've forgiven him and said "lets have a do over" twice. I've done everything humanely possible, including forcing him to go see a Dr and get on Medication (which he has). I've cried, screamed, calmly talked to, threatened divorce, forgave, ignored, kicked out, let back in, physically hit, threatened myself just to make this all stop. And I'm nothing. I am a shell of who I used to be, I'm exhausted, I am joyless, and I am hopeless.
And the torture of it all is that behind the ADD is the best husband in the world that is being held hostage by this horrible disorder. He is miserable. The medication is helping but we are dealing with all the screwed up coping skills and bad habits he has developed for dealing with this unhelped most his life. I want to run away from him and never look back sometimes.
So maybe if you can understand what it is like for us it can help you with your own journey into healing and managing your ADD. You need to have patience with your wife just as you'd want her to have patience with you. Sometimes when you finally get help, the non-add spouse is already over the edge.
I believe there should be studies on the mental health issues that affect non-ADD spouses. I got very depressed and started self medicating with Alchohol but realized what I was doing and was able to stop it and get help. My husband and I were seeing His ADD couch separately but it was coordinated. It helped alot but I have a loooong recovery. Trust is the main thing that needs to be restored.
take care
Submitted by brendab on
As I was reading your post I was reminded of so many things I did in my nonADD marriage. I was a caretaker and classic "fixer" of everyone but ME. Before you make any more decisons I would encourage you to judge everything through a different lens. Ask yourself one thing before making even one simple decision. "Is this action or speech good for me?" The problem is that caretakers do not take care of themselves and over time we pay a huge price for this. When I detached and started basing every decision on "is this good for my inner character and my peace of mind?" I got stronger in little baby steps.
My two teen daughters were watching me closely as I made decisions good for me. The more I did this, they could see my "inner child" begin to smile again and show confidence. They saw an example of someone who took lemons and made lemonade. I am not telling you to be selfish but you must take care of yourself first. Your post sounds like you were a strong confident woman before marrying and you know she is just under the surface. Only you can rescue her and do the things that will allow her to bloom again. Figure out what values she really cares about and choose the kind of life you want. Take some time and figure out what action items you can do to take control of your life again and caretake yourself for a change.
Brenda
take care submitted by brendab
Submitted by newfdogswife on
I "was" the same way in my marriage to an ADHD husband, too. I was the classic "fixer" of everything and everyone. Only problem, for most of our marriage, we had no diagnosis and I thought I had, unfortunately, just hooked up with the biggest jerk on the face of the earth. Now, we have the diagnosis and he is on medication and is in therapy but it is going to be a long journey. I have also somewhat detached and base all of my decisions on what will be good for me. It has been life changing for me. I no longer feel stressed and have peace of mind most of the time. I highly recommend taking control of "your" life!!!!!!
Thank you, Ki
Submitted by CupOfBlondSugar on
Ki-
I joined this site just to comment on your post after I read it. Thank you for taking the time to put down in words all you feel and experience. I want you to know from jump street I am not now nor have I been married to a man with ADHD or ADD. I am a mother to a ten year old boy with ADHD. Your post gave me a lot of reasons to think. I am proud of the strides he's taken over the years and worried at the things you decribed which seem so like my son. I never want my future daughter-in-law to deal with the things you do. Also, there are times when I honestly do not know why he's acting the was he does. Is it ADHD? Or is it simply being 10? You've helped answer some of those questions. I can see in my son what you described in your husband...no matter what I do, my son will stop and watch television, forgetting everything and everyone around him. He'll even look at me in total confusion when I tell him to stop and remind him he has things to do. In just a few short seconds, he's forgotten what he was on his way to do before the light of a TV (or a remote, or the glimmer of the screen when it's off) caught all his attention. I'm not sure if he's fibbing as any 10 year old does at times or if it's a result of just not wanting to do what's expected of him.
He's on medications, which has been cause for a few family riffs, but he's my son and my responsibility. And honestly, I cannot handle him without the meds and therapy. At times, I can see how far he's come...but other days I just wonder if some of the things we deal with will ever end! He has a problem with responsibility and with MY authority, although not with my husband's. He's determined to do things the way he wants to do them. He will ignore simple instructions (from me, his teacher, his coach) because it's not the way he wants to do them or he thinks he knows the best way. There are times, like earlier tonight, when I fear he'll fight so hard against doing his homework, schoolwork, and chores that it will lead him to drop out of school one day. He will flat out refuse to learn his math facts or to slow down to be able to comprehend what he's reading. He now has to do homework assigned by me (which his teacher suggested) on the weekends to get him caught up due to his laziness. His goal has always been to do enough to just pass and I am having to really crack down to improve his self disipline. Until I stumbled upon your post, I was starting to think a few different things: doubt in myself as a mother, doubt in my son's abilities and his future...I was even starting to fear he might have to live with us forever because he wouldn't know how to care for hmself!
I realize the upside to ADHD...he's very creative and extremely intelligent...he also happens to have the motivation of a turtle on its back! Except when it comes to soccer! Thank you for giving me a light in the tunnel! Thank you for helping me remember all the reasons I have to be more stubborn than he is! Thank you for letting me know what his future wife's life will be like if I give up! And please remember one thing about your husband, no matter how stubborn he is with you, he could use that to hang on to a job, or hang onto you. Remind yourself (or even him) that someone creative enough and smart enough to come up with all those last minute excuses has the brains and talent to find a good job and make his life (including his marriage to you) work! I know things are rough for you right now, but it is my hope you know your feelings may stop a little girl out there from living a life like yours when she's all grown up. Blessings to you and I will remember you in my thoughts and prayers!
-Amanda
be stubborn but patient with your son
Submitted by arwen on
COBS, I have raised a son with ADD as well as being married to a man with ADD (I do not have ADD). My son was not diagnosed until his freshman year in high school, but even before that it was obvious that there were problems, and we found strategies to deal with them that (as it turned out) were appropriate for coping with ADD. When my son was 10, he did well on tests or in-class assignments (except for journal writing -- he could never get started), but routinely forgot to bring some of his homework assignments home and had a lot of trouble getting projects done. I tried to apply "natural consequences" as much as possible with these problems. For example, we had a policy that the very first thing he did after he got home (after going to the bathroom if necessary) was to review his homework assignments. If he couldn't account adequately for every subject, we called the school and talked to the teachers (who were usually still there) and determined whether he'd left homework at school or not. If he had, he had to get on his bike, ride back to the school, and fetch it back home. Rain or shine. Snow or heat. Some days he didn't mind, but sometimes it was miserable. And my heart was in my throat every time. We lived in a pretty safe neighborhood, but I still worried. I knew to the minute how much time the trip needed, so I know he didn't stop to play anywhere -- he knew he'd be grounded for anything like that. I *never* got in the car and drove him -- I required *him* to fix his problem. The following year he attended a school that was three times as far from home -- he only needed to have to go back to school on his bike twice that year before he learned to stop leaving the homework at school! You are right that you have to be stubborn.
But you also have to be patient -- I was not. I didn't really understand his ADD at that time (since it wasn't diagnosed, I hadn't learned much about it then). I frequently got angry at him. I raged when he didn't complete a project on time, again, for the umpty-umpteenth time. I punished him with assigning him extra "homework", and taking away privileges, until sometimes he didn't have any privileges left. Like you, I was determined that my son was not going to cause the same kind of misery for his wife or girlfriend that some ADDers (like my husband) can create. And none of that did any good at all. On the contrary, it made my son feel like I didn't love him, and it sapped his self-confidence. Because I wasn't addressing the problem in a useful way, and he didn't understand what his problem was, the situation couldn't improve. And then later, when my son was older, he exhibited the anger I had modeled in his own behavior, which caused all kinds of problems for several years. Once he was diagnosed, of course, and he began taking medication and going to counseling, things began to turn around on all fronts, but a lot of damage was done in the meantime.
I've made all kinds of mistakes in my life, but most of them were learning experiences and I haven't had many regrets. But I regret tremendously my impatience and anger with my son. We have been able to repair the damage to our relationship, thank goodness, but there's no doubt that my poor behavioral choices contributed to my son taking much longer to mature than most young people with ADD. He gave up on college some years ago, and has just decided to tackle it again this year. He has had a steady girlfriend for several years, and I'm glad to say that he has learned to control his anger over the past 10 years, as I have mine. But I think of how much harder I probably made his life for so long, and I wish so very much that I'd worked harder to understand better and had more patience in dealing with him.
So, when you "crack down to improve his self discipline", please, I beg you, make sure that your expectations are well-informed and reasonable, and that your behavior and approach clearly communicate your love and support for your son. Yes, it *is* hard to know what is a real ADD problem and what's typical 10-year-old trickery, but I can tell you from my own experience that it's much harder to live with the consequences and regrets of too harsh treatment.
Talk more Arwen: your sons ADD
Submitted by ajr on
Arwen,
Talk more about what DID work for your son...I too have a sophmore son with ADD....Similar symptoms to his ADD dad, gets things done, but grades from A to B to C to D to F in 2 weeks time. Smart, capable, has the ability, but execution falters.....Social in school, has lots of friends, excels in lots of sports but when you ask him whats going on... we get the " DONT KNOW" response which is terribly frustrating... He may not know, or its typical teen response from a 15 year old....Scolding, anger & taking away sports privaledges doesnt work....so were guessing he is not doing this to be spiteful...There is an issue....I suspect its processing of large amounts of information as it is for his dad....
Just started him on 36 MG of Concerta this week, and he says hes not noticing much difference....Maybe we havent given it much time... pulling C's and D's in his higher end advanced classes...Have a tutor for him but we are still grasping at straws.....Am meeting with a Dr behaviorist today recommended by my husbands ADD coach to see if anyone can shed light on this....Same grades pattern last year also, so we have lots of data to pull from....He is taking advanced X classes, and gets A&B's in his regular classes, but isnt performing well on Tests and quizes especially ( possibly processing lots of information in a short time frame?)
He ultimately is accountable for this grades etc true.... I dread getting his online grades every few days...and unfortunately if he forgets something he doesnt have the luxury of riding his bike back to school to get ( we live 15 miles from his school) We dont stand over him to study or check his work......If he ultimately doesnt do well this semester he will be moved down to regular classes if he is not performing at the X level....
I just want to rule any learning issue out to give him the best advantage.....It is So hard and frustrating to see him struggle, try to put the right tools in place, and we havent found the missing piece yet.....
Thanks for listening....
AJR
Big Red Flag, Ki
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
This is a bit rambling, and I apologize for that...but lots is coming to my mind as I write this, and not always in a perfectly logical order!
Hi - anytime I hear someone describe a person with ADHD as "lazy" I take it as a red flag. Most of the time that person isn't "lazy" at all, but rather "distracted". There's a BIG difference in how you respond to someone if you understand that they are so distracted that they seem to never get anything done, rather than assume they are lazy. My experience with just about every ADD person I've ever come across is that they are FAR from lazy. In fact, some of the singly most persistent folks I know are those with ADD. But their persistence is often hidden by the inefficiency of the choices they make and by the fact that they often have to be frequently reminded to do something. To those of us without ADD it comes across as "lazy" when it's not.
Be very careful that your fear for your son's future doesn't set you up to be in a position such as ARWEN describes below. Your son does things quite differently from you and what he needs more than anything else in the world is the understanding that you LOVE him even though you are quite different. Ned Hallowell's book on parenting, SuperParenting for ADD: An Innovative Approach to Raising Your Distracted Child might be a very good resource for you.
Also, be very careful to differentiate between setting up a structure in which your son can create habits that will help him get his homework done and be disciplined vs. "cracking down on him to be more disciplined". If he doesn't learn to motivate himself you are almost guaranteeing that he won't succeed once he is out of your household and direct gaze. This may seem like a huge challenge to you, but a good rule of thumb is to set up the problem (for example, getting your homework to class so you can turn it in) and then discussing possible solutions for this problem with your son. Have him pick one and try it. If it works, great. If not, try again. This way he is invested in the outcome (vs. just doing your bidding, which won't motivate him at all) and understands that you'll keep coming back at him until a good coping strategy is in place. Circling back with more ideas for solving problems and developing coping strategies is a great way for you to be "stubborn". (Or, as I used to say to my kids, "I don't care so much about the outcome as I care that you genuinely try".)
You describe him as creative and extremely intelligent - that's great. But then your comment of "having the motivation of a turtle on its back - except for soccer" concerns me. His commitment to soccer shows he can be motivated when fully engaged, so work with him to understand what else can engage him. I used to talk with my daughter about it this way - there are some things that are easy to really get into because we love to do them (soccer in your son's case) and let's make sure that you get to do lots of what you love. But there are some times in your life when there are things that aren't so fun but are just plain necessary to "get through". School can be one of those things for some kids and, because of the way it's structured, isn't very "friendly" for kids with ADD. But that's just the way school is, so you need to work around it and figure out how to make it work for you. My daughter loved her "learning" but struggled mightily with her homework (it took her forever to complete an assignment and she still takes longer than other kids) but she stuck with the homework because she saw it as a "necessary step" to continuing to learn and understood that her struggles didn't reflect on her as much as they did upon the specific environment that is "school". She has every confidence that when she is out of school she'll be able to find an environment more suitable for her ADD-affected talents.
My advice - apply your stubborness in the most important areas, but apply lots of love, appreciation and praise the rest of the time (and the praise should be "real" not fake, which means one of your jobs is to set your son up in lots of situations where he can excel so he can get that positive feedback. He'll hear lots of "you're lazy" and "you should try harder" from others - he doesn't need to also hear it from his parents, whom he would like to have as his staunchest supporters).
Please understand that I in NO WAY consider you to be a "bad mom". Just the opposite - your search for information in this area shows just how good a mom you are. But dealing with ADHD is really, really tricky. As you note, you don't know if his behavior is because he's 10, a boy, or has ADD. And you don't know if his resistance is because of how you are reacting, or if he's ADD or if he's 10 or.... Keep looking for ideas, and remain as open to new possibilities (offered up by your son some of the time) as possible. It never ceases to amaze me that the solutions offered up by people with ADD can be so different than those that I have. But they often work better for them because they take the way the ADD mind works into account -something that is hard for me to "mimic". So try to make your son your "partner" in developing strategies. It may sound like strange advice, since he's only 10, but he'll appreciate that you respect him enough to do so (and be secretly proud that you take this stance unlike the parents of many of his friends, who don't). Of course, he'll be looking to you for "conceptual level rules". Things like "we try our hardest even if we don't succeed" and "we don't lie - instead we tell the truth and then accept the consequences of that truth". Think about what those are in your family (aim for less than 5 biggies so that they can be easily remembered and lived up to) and discuss them when the appropriate "learning moments" come up. I found this helped our family a lot when confronted with the often confusing environment that raising kid(s) with ADD creates by creating a consistent overarching structure for everyone.
Anyway, thanks for your contribution here. I hope that you keep writing.
Demoralized - Too Little, Too Late?
Submitted by apollo on
Jerry - The first thing that came to my mind upon reading your post is that I have always wanted to hear my husband say the things you wrote. My husand has never denied his ADHD and has been medicated most of his life. However, he denies finding coping and management skills for his ADHD behaviors. He claims that he cannot change the way he is and he expects me to accept his behaviors and not expect him to manage them differently. If I heard my husband say to me the things you wrote, my anxiety, fear, hurt and anger would crumble. They wouldn't disappear altogether, but I would certainly feel more reassured and experience a deeper motivation to begin a new MUTUAL partnership with my husband on a road to relationship recovery. That is all I need from him really: acknowledgement and reassurance. Acknowledgement that my feelings and my experience has been and is very real. Acknowledgement (responsibility?) that the way he managed his ADHD wasn't wrong, but could be better. Reassurance that he will try, try, try to discover and learn new ways to manage his ADHD in ways that are healthy for him, us, and our family --- and be responsible for reminding himself about this goal. I very much want to a loving, accepting and honest resource for him. Albeit, he doesn't view me in that light due to my weakest moments and how I handled my frustrations with him. Blah, blah, blah - my point is, have you "scheduled" a talk with your wife with the sole purpose of sharing with her what you wrote in your post, and shared it with her? If I heard my husband say the things you wrote, I would melt. Any anger and/or resentment of mine would be disarmed because I would immediately recognize the sincerity and the vulnerability that accompanies that truth. Furthermore, I would make it a (renewed) point to finetune how I respond to him (his behaviors) because I would feel that we were on the same page, finally. We would be working together toward the same goal. Do you leave or do you stay? I wouldn't feel good about myself if I left my marriage unless I knew that I did all that I could to open up the lines of communication, turned over every stone, and did everything I could to change my own weaknesses (not my spouse's because it is not in my power to change him). If after all of my efforts my spouse remained resentful, angry or what have you, then I would question which path would be the better one. I must also comment that you are very strong, very courageous, for facing the facts and admitting to your own weaknesses. It takes more strength and character to make change than to remain stagnant. One of my favorite quotes is this: Change is the essence of life. Be willing to surrender what you are for what you could become.
Demoralized
Submitted by ADD Spouse on
I have been married to a man, who has ADD, for eight years. The amount of heartache that has accumulated in that time is great and I can only imagine it would be twice as much with 15 years of marriage. If my husband were as committed to changing for the better as you are, I would be happy, but I would also need to see real results and real progress. My husband responds well to being told I love him, either verbally or in writing. But that is not my "language of love." I need to see that someone loves me by what they do. Saying "I love you" means almost nothing to me, but do the dishes and you are screaming "I love you!" You are spending time and effort figuring yourself out, you also need to spend some time figuring your wife out. Find out what makes her feel loved - words, gifts, acts of service (helping with the housework), being touched, quality time - then do it at least once everyday. You might be amazed at how far vacuuming a rug or a hug or a low key conversation over coffee might go.
Another factor in your wife's angry responses may be feeling uncomfortable with change. She has 15 years of ADHD chaos and now things are changing. This can be very unsettling and scary, even if the change is for the better and what she has been dreaming of for years. So, a little patience may be needed. That being said, it is not okay for her to be abusive. You may have to say something along the lines of "I know things have been hard for a long time because of my ADHD, but it is not okay for you to insult me like that." Physical abuse is really, really not okay. My husband suffered that with his first wife. I, myself, came close to harming him once. It scared me deeply.
Another thing to consider is that your wife may have some mental/emotional struggles of her own. I suffer from anxiety. This only makes coping with ADHD behaviors worse. Imagine being the kind of person who agonizes about being on time married to someone who is never on time and always makes you late. My own issues just add to the problem. If you are currently in counseling, the counselor needs to be told what is happening. Perhaps they can help to uncover the source of the violence.
Your marriage is worth saving. Keep trying. Give the same kind of patience and forgiveness you wish to receive and hang in there!
always late
Submitted by JAM on
"Imagine being the kind of person who agonizes about being on time married to someone who is never on time and always makes you late." I don't have to imagine it, I live it.
Too Little, Too Late?
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Jerry - here is the good news - you are coming to understand the damage that you have done to your marriage and starting to take responsibility for that damage. My husband, who has been through all of the steps of our "recovery" (if you want to call it that) says that BY FAR the hardest step is coming to a full understanding of how much your ADHD impacts other people.
If your wife is as I was, she is feeling angry, hurt, duped, unhappy, unloving, spiteful. She still can't understand why you couldn't control yourself better and think straight, even with the ADHD label and may be feeling so uncharitable that she thinks ADHD is just your latest "excuse" for hurting her. She probably doesn't trust you, doesn't like to be around you, doesn't have warm feelings towards you, and is hurt, hurt, hurt. Just as you would like her to accept that you did not understand how you were hurting your relationship and her, I would urge you to accept and acknowledge the validity of her anger at being hurt. When you ask her to suddenly change her feelings and her need to lash out at you (a response to her anger) you unwittingly are dismissing her feelings ("they aren't that meaningful, just change them"). For her to be able to get past her hurt and move on she will need to fully understand that you "get it", accept responsibility, apologize and are physically and mentally doing things differently. This will take time. Rebuilding trust and the ability to give your spouse the benefit of the doubt when you have been as badly damaged as she has been takes a long time and lots of effort.
Sometimes, though it wasn't pleasant for him, my husband would simply let me 'rant' for a while and get it out of my system, accepting my words, acknowledging their validity, etc. We developed a system whereby I would say something like "I really need to rant right now" and he would say "okay" if he had the time, knowing that he was about to get an earful, but that it was the result of my years of being hurt. My prepping him by telling him this would be a rant was my way of saying "look, I need you to just listen - don't fight, just let me get it out of my system so I can move on" and his "okay" was his acknowledgement that he heard this request and would listen, try to learn, acknowledge my needs by responding non-defensively ("yes", "okay", "I didn't know that before", "you felt that way?" etc) and let me get it out. Any attempt on his part to defend his past actions didn't usually go in a good direction - we both learned that "being heard" was much more important than "placing blame". I think he viewed it as his "payment" for all of his past hurt, and his doing it let me know in action that he was willing to deal with my needs for healing, too, not just work on his own. It showed his support in a way that was meaningful for me.
What you may not realize is that it is likely that your spouse doesn't like herself very well right now. I suspect that she didn't used to be this way and, deep inside, dislikes the aggressive, attacking, nagging, dismissive, angry person she has become. This complicates your situation. Right now she blames this transformation on you and may even hate you in some way for your role in it. She will start to overcome these feelings only when she completely disengages from you or when she starts to come to terms with the idea that the choices she has made in responding to your ADHD have contributed to the demise of your relationship, too (in a parallel way that you have come to terms with the impact of your ADHD symptoms). She needs to learn that she does have control over her situation more than she thinks that she does. Unfortunately, when she is feeling angry, defensive, etc she isn't thinking very straight, so anything you can do to get her to calm down some (like acknowledging your ADD issues, apologizing, putting together plans with her to move forward, showing good will) will help her move closer to accepting that she does have more control than she thinks and needs to also take responsibility for her own actions.
Every person has strengths and weaknesses. You may never be a "big picture" guy, but that's okay within the confines of a healthy relationship (you didn't suddenly become this way - at one point she loved you the way you were, details and all...now you are "better" because you have a much more in-depth picture of how your behavior affects others...she just hasn't caught up with this, yet.) I can't tell you that it's not too late because I'm not on the inside of your relationship, and it sounds pretty dire. I can tell you that George and I were in exactly this same place. It took us some years after we figured out he has ADHD before we were able to become a supportive couple again, but we did do it - and well. It IS possible to feel in love again, even after all of this. But patience and a willingness to put yourself on the line and take risks in the direction of being nicer and more thoughtful than you might feel like being at the time, are often needed.
The bottom line is that you do deserve to be treated with respect, and you are most definitely going in the right direction. But the most direct way to getting that respect is to show your wife how much you care about her by validating her feelings and helping her heal, too. Show her you are someone worthy of respect - a partner who is thoughtful about her needs, strong enough to continue to pursue his own growth, willing to make a concerted effort to be a good partner and redefine how the two of you can live together. Stand up for yourself and demand that she talk to you with the respect she would normally provide any stranger, but offer her the opportunity to "get it out of her system" at appropriate times when you are prepped for it and ready to "take it" because you are partners and support each other in intimate ways that strangers wouldn't (as my husband did - and some of those rants weren't all that respectful, trust me!)
More thoughts about being treated with respect - I liked it when my husband stood up for himself about how I was speaking to him (like "you need to speak to me in a respectful way, even if what you have to say is difficult") because I didn't want to be married to a doormat. Part of what attracted me to him in the first place was his combination of strength and gentleness - so this stance fit in perfectly with both. But there is a fine line between standing up for yourself and being sucked into an argument over it. In other words, don't say "If you don't speak to me respectfully I won't listen to you" because that's a.) aggressive and likely to make things worse and b.) not very respectful.
As you demand respectful conversation and behavior from her, you need to offer "olive branches" back. If she takes off after you about something (let's say it's how you don't carry your weight around the house as an example) then you will help yourself the most if you say "I understand that you think I don't do enough around the house" (you heard her). "I can see why you would say this and would like to talk about it in depth - when can we sit down and really get into it?" (acknowledge her, offer to talk about the problem) If she hasn't fainted dead away by then, hopefully she will see your offer of an olive branch and set a time, somewhat mollified. At that point you need to listen to what she has to say, add your own thoughts and feelings in a contructive way, and come up with a plan that addresses both of your needs. Don't just give stuff lip service. As you are doing this, it's fine to use your ADD-ness in making the plan. For example "I really hate doing the dishes because it bores me and I worry that I won't be able to keep it up...is there a different chore that I can take on that I would be more likely to succeed at? Perhaps taking the kids to school?" Chores are an example of a solvable problem - so solve it!
If she says something personal, such as "You're just a small thinker. I hate the way you see things and miss the point all the time." a good response would be "I know this bothers you, you've said so before. But it's a big issue. Let's talk about it over wine, perhaps?" "How you think" would be a good example of an "unsolvable problem". In that case, you'll need to get at the root of WHY the way you are bothers her, and how it interferes with her life. Eventually you may be able to address some of the solvable "spin off" problems that your way of thinking creates (and doing so will earn you brownie points) but you will likely remain the kind of thinker you are, so she will also need to work out a way to come to terms with that.
People with ADHD sometimes say that having ADHD could be classified as an "unsolvable problem". But ADHD in itself isn't a problem, it's the symptoms of ADHD that are getting in your way that are the issue. Many of the negative symptoms can be addressed with treatment so that they are no longer an issue, even though you continue to have ADHD. This act of learning to separate yourself from your symptoms is part of a healthy move forward.
You are on the right road - keep it up. Recognize that you and your wife won't be in synch about the changes you are making and accept it as a side effect of the damage your symptoms have caused over the years (and her choices, too). While it would be great if she were there cheering you on, she's just not able to do so at this point. It's sad, and you can mourn that you've gotten to where you are, but don't let it stop you from plowing ahead - things CAN get better, but only if you keep pushing. Do whatever you need to keep your spirits up - take fish oil, keep up your treatment so you see improvements, exercise as regularly as possible (it's a great anti-depressant!). Take a minute a day to think about the positive things you have in your life. Even better, take another minute to share those thoughts with your wife. She'll soften up eventually - it's a drag to be bitching all the time (trust me, I know!)
Good luck and keep us posted!
Behavior and Character
Submitted by Sueann on
I am struggling with the problem of dealing with what I consider character issues underlying my ADD husband's behavior. I know Melissa has seen me post on this before, but for background, my husband ceased performing his job correctly (for very ADD reasons) and was fired 2 months after we were married, leaving me with no medical insurance and an expensive diagnosis. For over 2 years he did not work regularly and I worked 2 shifts or 2 jobs (for a while 3) while he did not work. I could not afford treatment for my hypertension, and I'm a stroke survior so this was life threatening.
He's working now, and I'm working on forgiving him.
I see lots of women post that they think the ADD is covering up their real husband, the one they fell in love with, and that he's "still in there somewhere." What I am beginning to feel, after he's been treated for his ADD with medication and therapy for nearly 2 years, is that the ADD person is who he IS. He IS the person that drove me to work and went home to putter on his computer til 10 at night without trying to contribute to the household. He IS the person who would have rather let me DIE than get a job so I could have my medication.
I can't forgive my husband for having ADD any more than I can forgive him for having blue eyes. It just IS. I am so confused. I want to be married to someone with similar values to me, who values responsibility and hard work. I thought I had found someone like that, but I don't understand who he IS. This unwillingness to be responsible seems to me to be a character problem, not an illness.
How can I deal with this? My husband turns out to be a person I don't understand. I have committed myself to spend my life with someone I don't even much like, who seems fundamentally rotten at the core, who does not value the same things I value. If you let life threatening things happen to someone you are supposed to love, isn't that a character problem, rather than a behavior problem? If the ADD person forges their spouse's name to get a credit card, aren't they a forger, even if it's because they have ADD? (No, my husband didn't do that, but I've seen plenty of people on this site who had that problem.) If they steal from you, aren't they thieves, even if they have ADD?
I feel like I can forgive my husband for being careless and dropping a bookcase on my foot, for example. (It helps that the injury finally healed, although it took nearly 2 years.) I can forgive him for doing things, or not doing things, but not for BEING WHO HE IS. That isn't my place.
So how do you get past the feeling that the ADD person you are married to isn't someone you want to even know? How do you break the link between character and behavior?
Breaking link between character and behavior
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
You pose this question in a great, and very helpful way. It is a core question for learning how to deal with a spouse with ADHD. My initial response is to tell you that YOU can't break that link between character and behavior - that your husband must demonstrate and understand that there is a break.
I often tell people to try to separate the person from the behavior - that advice is sound. It helps a spouse without ADD have greater compassion for the person who has it, and it offers the ADD spouse a way to understand that with work, things can be better, while providing an idea of what to work on (target symptoms).
Without work on symptoms, nothing changes. This is really hard for the non-ADD spouse to comprehend - WHY WON'T he make things better if it would help our marriage? Why won't he get that job it's obvious he so desperately needs? Sometimes, as stupid as it sounds, the answer is simply that they don't see the imperative nature of the problem.
So the question becomes - do you wait it out? Wait for your spouse to finally understand that his ADHD is negatively impacting his life and yours A LOT, and that he is responsible for changing the nature of how his symptoms are managed or do you just finally say "I can't wait any longer" and get out? I can't answer that question for anyone - I tend to think that you know when you've given so much that you won't think you exited too early. Unfortunately, too many with ADD "get it" after their spouse gives up and leaves.
That said, it is the common approach to equate ADHD symptoms (particularly the symptom of distraction) with moral deficiency. Think of all the ADDers who have been told they are lazy, when they weren't. Think of all the ADDers who've been accused of being mean or thoughtless when they were simply distracted. It would seem to me that your issue isn't that he's morally depraved (at least you haven't convinced me of that with what you've written here) but that you don't share the same values and approaches. I suspect, from what I'm reading, that if he valued being able to provide health care for you or holding down a job at any time, you would have at least seen him attempting to find one (albeit in a potentially misguided way - perhaps endlessly searching internet sites, for example, or hyperfocusing on a resume forever)
You felt it was his duty as a husband to get a job, he wasn't able to pull himself together (for whatever reason) to do so for two years and this caused you life-threatening anxiety. His ADD may be the reason he didn't do this (too distracted, perhaps?) but it was his lack of trying that got to you. Yes, this is most likely his ADD (not, in my opinion, moral failing). But while it's good that you can make a distinction between character and behavior it doesn't actually matter - in order to be a good husband to you, he needs to get those symptoms (distraction, lack of motivation, perhaps low self-esteem) under control. That's his responsibility as a partner in the marriage. (I know that you've already worked to meet him part way, so I won't give the normal lecture on this topic!!)
I urge you to continue to accept that his ADD is part of who he is and that it always will be part of him. But I urge you to not equate his symptoms with a moral failing. His failing isn't moral. His failing is that he hasn't made a more concerted effort to get his symptoms under control. Even if he weren't successful at it, at least then you would know that he cared about it. The way to deal with this is to express it to him just this way - at least if you want to give it one more attempt to affect change.
Or, put another way, if you choose to fix one of these two problems, which would you choose?:
You are morally bankrupt, and rotten at the core. I don't respect you because you don't value responsibility or hard work. Fix yourself.
Your ADD symptoms of distraction and seeming lack of motivation are ruining our marriage. I understand you have ADHD, but unless you show measurable improvement in changing these symptoms I can't stay with you.
I want to repeat something here that I've said elsewhere - even with treatment, people with ADD don't turn into people without ADD. Treating ADD is all about learning how to minimize and/or get around symptoms. It's complex, and rarely perfect.
I know you've been on this site a long time and have been having real troubles for longer. I applaud the progress that you have made personally as you've been thinking about your issues - your growth is obvious and real. I get the feeling that you'll figure out soon what path will start to take you towards a happier life. In the meantime, I commend you for all of your hard work, and your ability to survive a difficult situation.
Reply to Melissa-Behavior and Character
Submitted by Sueann on
Thank you Melissa. I think you understood what I am saying and your reply, always, is very thoughtful.
My problem is that I do always choose the first option you gave. "You are morally defective. You don't care if I DIE as long as you don't have to work." Trust me, I made the link between my medicine and my continuing existence very clear to him. So to me, he comes across as morally bankrupt. How can I respect him? Even though he is working now, the feeling remains that he is a shell with no moral center, no guiding principles, a user. To me, it feels like he married me because he wanted to be taken care of, like he didn't expect to have to work.
I feel like the failing isn't having ADD but giving in to it. I walk even though it hurts, I even did some door-to-door Census work this summer. Wouldn't a moral person work on what he needs to do even though it's more fun to be distracted?