It's been a while since I posted. Been having quite a hard time recently in my relationship. I am now married (2 yes) but things not going well. I have ADHD my partner does not. She is extremely supportive nearly all the time but there are certain things I cannot bear at all and my being unable to bear them is really causing problems. These are issues for when medicated and uneducated but without drugs I just can't *do* anything about them.
I cannot bear it when my wife points out that I did something incorrectly or am not applying coping mechanisms to mitigate my symptoms. I just can't bear her to be talking about the pain I cause her, this isn't that I can't bear causing her pain (any more, although it used to be) it is that I can't bear *my* pain with being told she didn't like what I did. I didn't mean to do those things at the time or if I did I didn't think through the ramifications even when its the 30, 40th, 124th time.
Many people have described the coping mechanism: 1. apologise, 2. acknowledge what you have done wrong, and 3. leave the situation to go and think about the particulars of what you alone did and how you could have responded better.
I am having real problems with step 2 if it involves either listening to my wife express the depth of what I have done on her feelings or it being necessary for me to acknowledge at the time that what I did was actually wrong.
At the time any 'uncorrectness' is pointed out to me I genuinely don't think she should be getting upset with me about it and therefore have a hard time being in any way remorseful about what I have done (at the time).
My wife has mentioned if I would just show some remorse about what I did rather than being hurt by her mentioning it she probably would be less likely to feel the need to make it very clear, at length, exactly why what I did was wrong.
The arguments are getting prolonged and I see no way of being able to stop them when they happen.
This is killing me, I'm really in despair over this and don't know what to do. I love my wife and do not want to be repeatedly hurting her - or I need even once. But how can I get her to understand that once in an argument is it very, difficult for me to appreciate the consequences of my actions on her and even more difficult for me to say that her emotional response to me is correct - because it hurts me.
I can even see that I'm being a bit of an add he here but I really don't know what to do?
I'm sorry you feel this way
Submitted by Julia on
I really have no advice. My husband has ADHD and has the same struggles. What I can tell you is the fact that you are recognizing the issues and what you struggle with is - to me - a big, positive step. At least it can open discussions.
Hurt....
Submitted by c ur self on
When we continue to suffer hurt from the same source, it's because we continue to place our confidence and trust in a source that isn't capable or willing to not disappoint us (hurt) (124 out of a 124)....Your wife's repeated efforts to point this out to you is because she is using her mind and her own perceived abilities to set expectations for you....NO acceptance of your living of life.....
You seem very aware, and you two would be perfect for counseling at this point in my opinion....
I hope you two can find some way to learn to accept each others realities without the unrealistic expectations that keep causing your stressful dialog...I know how painful and miserable that can be...
Blessings
C
A Break Through Moment........JM
Submitted by kellyj on
Hi JM,
Coming at this differently than I normally do ( the other way ) and just saying what the "Breakthrough" really was? This a "personal breakthrough" just for myself in dealing with the same issue which is really a paradox that has no answer for? How can you apologize...for something that you don't know exactly what you did to hur the other person?
I use to reflexively say...."I'm sorry" all the time! It just came out of my mouth without even thinking about it? So if someone did something and they responded to me with anger or hurt....I'd instantly say....."I'm sorry"....but all that would do was defuse the situation and not fight about "IT"....what ever "IT" was? I had no idea what "IT" was......but I learned to say..."I'm sorry" but it didn't do anything but stop a fight or argument which in my case....I was desperately truing to avoid in my past ( for good reason too!!! A very good reason that was personal to only me? )
The problem with "I'm sorry" is.....it can be an expression of sympathy ( or feeling of sorrow )...or it can be used as said....."as an apology".....but which one is it because it's exactly the same words? That's the problem!!!
Many people have described the coping mechanism: 1. apologise, 2. acknowledge what you have done wrong, and 3. leave the situation to go and think about the particulars of what you alone did and how you could have responded better.
So back up here for a moment....and go back to the beginning? Who is coping here? You...or your wife? A true apology....can't be given....until you understand what you did.....not as "wrong" or "incorrect"....but simply.....that you hurt the other persons feelings in some way? But ....who knows what you did was "right" , "wrong" or "indifferent".....if the other person is hurt by something...even if you don't know what that is? You can still apologize simply for hurting their feelings and leaving it at that? That is....if you you're self are coping and not feeling hurt and disrespected which may and is usually the since both are happening...at the same time?
What ever it is...that you did....may have been something completely legitimate and even if everyone else on the planet would agree with you.....that person is still hurt and upset so no matter what....now you're feeling hurt by this but have no way to answer or give any reason to your apology if what you did from your end..which is exactly what you are saying?
And for me...and for no other reason....I just need some resolution and clarity from my wife at times ( for example ) and that is simply not going to happen with her right then in that moment and sometimes....I have no idea what I did to upset her but....neither does she? She can't even say what "IT" is at? All she can do in that moment...is become angry, upset, hurt, cry, throw accusations out and blame or react in hostility towards me... etc etc etc....All she can think about is what she is thinking about and how much it hurts and what I did "wrong"? Like as if there is some rule somewhere...that I am completely unaware of that she is....and that's it? I have no idea sometimes...which leaves in the same place here with you? And sometimes....she's "right"....and sometimes.....she's "wrong"? And sometimes...she is out in another dimension or alternative Universe somewhere and I have no clue at all? I am literally "with no idea what so ever" and this is exactly all I know in these moments sometimes with her?
So an apology...is not what is needed to "cope" on my part...and to give her one...so she can "cope" is disingenuous...since just saying "I'm sorry"....is neither about an apology on my end....or "expressing" my own sorrow for her....if I am not "feeling" sorrow for her in the first place but I might...if I could feel it from understanding "how and why" she feels hurt by "things" in general gut in order to do that...I have to underrtand what she is sensitive to...in the ways I am not sensitive to in the same way? I am very sensitive to certain things and not others but I can get my feelings hurt at times....but that's all about me..and my own personal sensitivities...that are completely different than anyone else's which is always the case anyway with anyone? No two people are going to feel the same about everything all the time anyway not matter who you are with? And so... it's my job or responsibility to my wife....to make sure my wife knows exactly what those are ahead of time? Which many times...she simply can't tell me what her's are...so then...how can I know? How can you feel "sorrow" for someone if you can't even relate with or understand what there is...to feel sorrow for? That's impossible to do....to make yourself feel "sorrow" when you don't ....for no reason that you know of? So now what? Exactly as you said?
So if you don't feel sorrow......don't say I'm sorry? That's not a genuine apology...or....a genuine expression of your own true feelings? So with me...if I don't feel it....I don't say it...but also saying....sometimes I feel it....and I don't say it either? It depends on a lot of things....but just going around and expressing your sorrow everywhere you go....is not what everyone always wants to hear and in fact.....most would find that gets pretty old after while to be around you if this is all that you did all day long everywhere you go since you'd be a downer for everyone else...who not feeling this way themselves?
On the flip side.....it's not always a good idea...to say words you don't truly mean but sometimes...you have to....which is still a lie no matter what? My favorite example for a guy...."Does this dress make me look fat?" You tell me the "right" thing to do here? Lie...or tell the truth? Not too hard to figure out here in this case unless you've lived inside a cave all your life!!! LOL But the reason you lie....is so you don't hurt that persons feelings since they are coming to you for validation that they don't look fat to you? It's not about being fat....it feeling that you will reject them if you do....not matter how FAT....they think they are? I've put my foot in this one so many times....when I said..."you aren't FAT!! Why do you think you're fat??? And I was being honest...because I didn't think they looked Fat to me? But they thought they looked Fat...more importantly...and nothing I was going to say to the contrary or argue with them in that moment...was going to make them feel an better about themselves which it never did...which is why this won't work? It's not what you think that is important here....it's what they think is...and that's all that really matters to them...the same as you in that same situation? So now what?
If I have to trade off being nice to myself first...before I am nice to my wife and she forces me to be the bad guy....then so be it.....I'll be what ever she thinks I am.....as long as I'm being NICE to me...... (and not trying to be the bad guy)....... which is only by default when she sees someone as bad...who will not give her every waking moment of your time?
The quantum shift takes place...when you do not change how you see yourself....or see them being different. I don't become what she thinks of me? I allow her to think of me as the person I am not...and still remian the same? I haven't moved or changed one iota.....in my status....position...or state of mind? I am literally...unaffected or ...effected by anything my wife thinks of me...and remain the constant here.....and never change at all for myself no matter what she says? I have literally... become immune so it doesn't matter what she thinks of...as long as I am coping in this way? Here emotions...are not my emotions...and are completely separate that mine and her's has no effect on me personally? This is not about empathy. This is about sympathy...and having a sympathetic or passive reaction to my wife in this case as said...as a phenomenon.....which is not empathy what so ever....with no feelings attached? No indifferent because that would be a feeling? I'm saying....NO feelings or change in how I feel about myself...and am completely immune and separate and have my own feelings about anything...separate from anyone else? I am fully connected to my feelings at all times..and know what they are...and another person feelings are not bleeding into my and becoming mixed up and co-dependent...by this passive sympathetic effect that take place? This is really insidious too since Love and Sympathy ( sorrow )....are definitely not the same thing AT ALL!!! Two different feelings....that do not go hand in hand which is why I had to do this...because my wife cannot tell the difference? She gets confused in the feelings or Love...and the feelings of Sympathy ( or sorrow )...and that is a recipe..,.for co-dependence right there? The quantum shift took place...when I was able to fully break free from this co-dependent mixture of amorphous nondescript ( this weird, strange, bizarre ) and highly unusual combination of Love and Sympathy (and who knows what esle??) that gets all tangle together in a big sticky ball of string all tangle together.... which created these indescribable feelings that my wife has...and I don't which was HUGE for me...in order to cope myself?
This was a quantum shift in my reality when I could actually do this and "be those words"? Not just say those words..,but become that with a conscious awareness of them? "Be" the ball. When you are the ball...."you become the Ball" and tha Ball goes...where you tell it to go. You are in full control of yourself....when ever that happens? It's part of the Prime Directive....always moving forward. Be the Ball. Yes or No. It is....black and white...in this case and it makes it easy to decide? And you never have to defensive...since there is nothing to apologize for? Ever? Unless you feel it...and then it becomes mandatory that you do? If you don't you don't. But an easy choice to make? Yes.....or.....No. Other peoples disappointment...is not your disappointment and unless it is.... that is not your responsibility or job.....never to disappoint other people ...is it?
A victim...is a person who refuses to take responsibility of: their feelings, emotions and actions! 100% accountability and ownership at all times. If they fail to do this with their emotions and feelings....and you don't? Your clean...and they are not....then the answer stands....yes or no. It's always easy to decide?
The last part in this example I stole from another post...had to do with a particular issue....that has still yet to be fully resolved and may take some time to come to any meaningful resolution ( no resolution as of yet )
But as far a coping goes.....I can't "cope" for my wife...can I? The only person in the room I can cope for...is me? And that's how I am doing it? What ever apology or sorrow I end up feeling anytime in the future...I will express it...and apologize for it ( either one depending on )....when I actually feel sorrow? But if I'm only feeling sorry for myself in any situation....it doesn't do any good to apologize to another person...if that is all I'm feeling? Saying....if I say...."I'm sorry"...and it's because I'm am feeling sorry for ( or sorrow for myself..and this is killing me as you said? ) That pretty much doesn't work...if you can see what I am saying? I'll just leave the answer I found for myself right there as this huge break through that I had...just to ponder over since how I got there....is a long and complicated process to finally get to the answer which I will leave it right here for now....and just include the end result along with what I said.
J
I feel a little different
Submitted by Julia on
For me, if my husband says or does something that hurts me, "I'm sorry" goes a long way to diffuse the situation. Doesn't mean he understands what caused the hurt or tears, it can be just empathy towards me and my feelings, not matter the reason. Diffuse, step away and discuss calmly latter. The reality is that if my feelings get hurt, he gets defensive and that's what escalates. Same as if, for example, something that he was supposed to do doesn't get done. If it's a task that was essential, it can be disappointing especially if I have to end up doing it instead. If his reaction is getting defensive or trying to hide it from me, it escalates. If his reaction is to tell me he didn't do it and proposing a solution, then it diffuses.
Deny/deflect/blame causes arguments. Acknowledge, propose solutions doesn't.
Using the Tool ....... Julia
Submitted by kellyj on
I understand what you are saying...and I was saying the same thing in my response as well and sometimes...."I'm sorry"...works well to diffuse the situation as you said and sometimes...that works...and sometimes it doesn't? And sometimes it just makes things worse....but as I'm seeing it? It's still being emotionally dishonest to say it if you don't feel it just to avoid something else or diffuse the situation? For me....having more than one tool in the tool box....gives me the option to choose the right one to fit...each situation differently, as needed..or as called for? If you only have a hammer as the only tool in the tool box....it makes it hard if you need a screw driver doesn't it? Now what? Turkey's butt? That won't work either.... but it does for humor? LOL Just say'in? LOL
The Tool ( my T gave me to know what to do? ) " Are you going towards something....or are you going away from it?" That's the tool so to apply it....you have to ask....."if saying you're sorry to diffuse a situation....is being emotionally dishonest....and is used to avoid something or so you won't get into a fight?
Then, are you are "going ( moving away or towards? ) something" here...and the answer is an easy one? Yes...or ....No? If the answer is Yes.....then you instantly know not to use it because to use it would make you dirty...and what you always need to do as the goal...is to stay clean...all the time? So in order to stay clean and not get dirty....another tool is needed......but as yet to be found? But just because I don't have it......being Nice to myself means.....never having to say your sorry...to yourself....most importantly...since that would be a betrayal of yourself.....every single time you do that which is why I don't simply put? That just how I feel about it....but everyone is different? This goes right along with what I was saying in another post about "moving"...and always "moving forward" being the Prime Direction I want to always be moving in not matter what? Going "away" is moving....backwards ....and moving forwards is a positive direction. And backwards is a negative direction?...one might say? Positive...or ....negative? Dirty....or ....Clean? Honest....or......Dishonest? You tell me......which way is the best way? That's a rhetorical question of course just go pose here and leave that right there.
J
The feelings and behavior you
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
The feelings and behavior you describe remind me of my ex-husband. Here is how I felt when I was in your wife's shoes: that we couldn't resolve problems because we couldn't discuss them. There seemed to be two choices: I could insist on discussing problems and then be the "bitch" because in doing so, I was "making" my husband feel bad; or I could go along with his wishes and not discuss problems, thus "letting" him feel better about himself. Guess what happened: we mostly didn't discuss problems, he decided even the possibility of problems being discussed was too scary, and he left me to live with his parents.
You Understand Then...the Predicatment PI??
Submitted by kellyj on
And yes...it came to the same place for me....be the bad guy....or make her feel better so we don't fight or say nothing at all? It's a no win situation for sure but....as I have said for myself here only?
If I was going to make this happen.....I needed to change something since my wife was never going to change in this and I came to the same place? It was the Kobiashi Maru....no win scenario where total destruction was the only result no matter what you did? And I was going....there has got to be a way around this....I just know it!!! Where there's a will ...there's a way?
And this is the way for me alone? Meaning....if my wife never changes.....I will still be Okay but....I have to tell you....in the past week since I over came this hurtle myself...my wife has changed too.....right along with me? It is how it works.....but it took an acting of God and a lot of teeth pulling and some long angry nights alone to finding the path that lead me there...with a lot of help from my T....years of practice, lots of help and support from Melissa and everyone here ( putting up with me )....and a determination that just won't quit? That I have in spades you might say so that is a strength...I already had right from the beginning?
Not my first time at the Rodeo....I've been thrown from that horse....plenty of times and seem to always get back on it.....and keep on riding? I said this a long time ago to Liz ....if I recall, when I first came here and started posting?
"I'll let you know....when that horse is dead!!!" You know it for yourself.....and so do I? :)
J
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Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
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My wife has mentioned if I would just show some remorse about what I did rather than being hurt by her mentioning it she probably would be less likely to feel the need to make it very clear, at length, exactly why what I did was wrong.
The arguments are getting prolonged and I see no way of being able to stop them when they happen.
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Really?
You see no way to stop them when they happen? Really?
Your wife has told you how to stop them. Show remorse. Say, "oh, I am so sorry! So sorry! I can totally understand why you're so upset that I did that. I was wrong. I should not have done that and I won't do that again. My new plan is: ________________________________so that I won't upset you in this regard in the future."
Practice saying those words over and over so that those words will "bubble up" when you've done something wrong. Retrain yourself.
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is it very, difficult for me to appreciate the consequences of my actions on her and even more difficult for me to say that her emotional response to me is correct - because it hurts me.
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It's not about you. It's about your wife. Stop looking inward because that is being self centered. When you hurt your wife or someone else, focus on THEM. If that is impossible for you, then get some therapy.