Feel like my husband is financially ruining me.

This is my first time posting but I've been reading this site for more than 4 years. I've been with my husband for 8 years, married for almost 4.  He has ADHD and is on medication.  He isn't hyperactive at all, but he has issues focusing and I'm guessing he has a learning disability as well.  Other than taking medication, he does little else to learn or understand his ADHD.  He never reads this site even though I've asked him to several times. 

Our main issue is around money and our relationship is completely breaking down--MAJOR parent/child dynamics.  I am so angry and resentful because I feel like he is financially ruining me.  I value financial stability at my core and it's one of the things I value the most--perhaps the top thing.  I'm the kind of person who started saving money in my 401K when I was 22 years old.  I bought my first house when I was 23.  Financial stability is really, really important to me.  I work in corporate America and could get laid off anytime.  I am very uneasy with a lot of debt (outside of a mortgage).

When we were dating, I learned that my husband had $25K in credit card debt, no assets, and nothing saved for retirement.  Basically, he just didn't live within his means.  There was no reason for it--he just wasn't in control of understanding where his money was going.  Plus, he feels "entitled" to things he cannot afford like vacations and big screen TV's.  I tried to help him develop a plan for getting control of his debt and he got a second, part time job and began to pay it down.  I had actually ended our relationship and we broke up for 5 months.  We only got back together because he agreed to this plan.

Because he started to pay off his debt and had a plan to continue, I agreed to marry him nearly 4 years ago.  It's a second marriage for both of us.  The agreement that I actually struck with him when we married was that I would pay 85% of our monthly common bills (mortgage, etc.) and he would pay 15% to allow him to continue to pay down his credit cards.  This was supposed to go on for 2 years when his contribution would go up to 1/3 of our household bills.  (I make 2/3 of the household income, he makes 1/3 so I thought that was fair.) 

2 years turned into 3 1/2 and he still didn't have his credit cards paid off.  I did not monitor him closely so I have no idea where his money went.  At the same time as this, his ex-wife decided to serve him with papers to sue him for more child support, plus part of his daughter's private school tuition, plus half of his 2-kids college expenses.  An 8 month battle ensued racking up thousands and thousands of dollars in legal bills and culminated in his ex-wife actually deposing MY financials to help pay for his kids.  (Apparently she sees me as a source of income for her.)  The net result of this is that he settled with his ex-wife out of court to pay an epic amount of child support (the max in our state) PLUS college, plus healthcare, plus a small portion of his daughter's private school tuition (his ex-wife doesn't believe public schools are good enough for his kids and he has no say.) I had no say in any of this and his lawyer was TERRIBLE in my opinion.  We are in a state with case law that apparently allows this.  I have no idea what his lawyer even did for him. 

So now the result is that he STILL owes a small balance on his credit cards plus legal debt, plus more child support.  In the next 6 years, he will have to somehow take out loans to put his 2 kids through college. The guy can never get ahead, ever. 

I've disassociated myself and decided that he still will owe me his share of his bills.  He got himself into this predicament and I wasn't going to bail him out anymore. It's possible for him to pay everything except college with his two jobs as long as he sticks to a tight budget.  College will have to come from loans that he will have to pay off when his kids are out of school and he doesn't have to pay child support anymore.  Under duress from me, he developed a budget and our agreement was that we would review his progress against it once/month to make sure he was on track.

Well, months go by and he doesn't track anything against his budget.  It literally pains his to even say the word budget.  When I asked him last night when he wants to review it with him, he just blew up at me and said he has "too much stress".  Whatever--I have little empathy for him anymore.  He acts like a victim way too much and he never learns.

The other major thing that I'm angry about is he totaled my (paid off) car when I was away on a business trip.  He took my car instead of his because he didn't want to put miles on his car.  We don't share cars and he didn't have my permission to take mine.  I would never just take his without asking.  I have a car payment now that he just cannot contribute to.  I hate having a car payment.

I just don't see an end to this and I don't know what to do.  I feel like I've been duped by a guy who promised to be financially responsible for refuses to be so.  My anxiety levels are higher than every in my life and I keep thinking about how I was happy before I married him.

 

I'll try to respond at

I'll try to respond at greater length later, but for now, I just want to say, you're not alone.  Financial stability is number 1 priority for me, too, and my husband messes with our finances.  Not as much as your husband has done to your finances, but enough for me to feel betrayed.

thanks--betrayed is a good

thanks--betrayed is a good word.  He just says, "well, I didn't intend for this to happen".  I hate the word intentions.  He refuses to get help besides taking a pill.  He changed his medication earlier in the year because he was feeling "tired" on the old medication and I think he's worse on the new one but he refuses to do anything about it.  He's gone to a counselor but they talk about his self-esteem and nothing about ADD.  And he flat our refuses to see an ADHD coach because he said that his therapist doesn't think it's a good idea.

 

My husband also does not work

My husband also does not work with a coach or otherwise deal with his condition other than by taking medication.  

Currently, my income and my husband's are close to equal.  I have requested that he pay half the "joint expenses," which I've defined as expenses for our daughters, house and car insurance, and health insurance (the part my employer doesn't pay).  We're separated, and so I'm paying all the house expenses except for insurance.  I don't ask my husband for any contribution to my personal expenses (food and everything else).  But I physically pay almost all the bills.  Our daughters are authorized users on my credit cards, not on my husband's.  This means that I actually have to have money in my checking account to pay all the bills when they're due and my husband gets to deposit money into his account and pay me when he feels like it.  For the most part, I'm OK with this division of labor.  But what makes me mad and sad is that my husband won't pay me on time or will forget the amount or the date on which I've asked him to pay me, and this has resulted in me having to take out short-term loans to cover my cash flow issues.  And it's totally unnecessary, because he has the money.  

He too complains heartily when I talk about money.  I've told him a few times that we wouldn't need to talk about money nearly as much if he'd be responsible and make payments on time.   Where I see the betrayal is not in us having financial problems; lots of people do.  The betrayal is that my husband knows how important financial stability and responsibility are to me, and yet he chooses to engage in behavior that is counter to those values.

At least your husband works

My husband hasn't worked for years. He can't keep a job more than a couple months. This latest one he's been out of work for more than two years. I have no idea what he does all day long; he is supposed to be organizing our storage but that's been going on for months with zero progress; he's also supposed to be cleaning out our extra bedroom; again, months with no progress. Now his latest thing is to mope around how depressed he is that he isn't going anywhere and he's going to start a blog, of course, I'm paying for it. 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that your

I'm sorry to hear that your husband is unemployed.  I appreciate my husband's income, but his job situation is not particularly stable:  he takes care of his elderly parents, and if either of them dies or needs to go into a nursing home, payment will no longer be possible.  And when my husband is at home, he doesn't contribute to the housework.  So frustrating!  I sympathize with you.

We discovered almost 2 years

We discovered almost 2 years ago my husband had ADD. He was having severe depression and no antidepressants were helping. The facility that he went to had him talked into ECT. Thankfully we got a second opinion and he started in Adderall almost 2 years ago. Shortly before he was properly diagnosed, he was forced to quit his job. Since that time he has been trying to get his own automotive detailing business started. He is not able to be organized or a self started. We have a child and are living off of basically just my income. The financial stress is killing me. He maybe details 2-3 vehicles a MONTH. Most days he sleeps in until at least 10, then does things he deems very valuable (cleaning the garage, maintaining our vehicles, half finishing projects, etc). He stays up until at least 3 am, and the cycle continues. I've told him dozens of times he at least needs a part time job and he disagrees. I pay for everything and last month we almost were overdrawn. I have no extra money to do things I want to do or put into savings. I am angry and resentful. I do not understand how this is an issue. HE NEEDS TO WORK! At times his family will have him do some book work or cleaning on their farm and pay him. His mom tells me they cannot afford to pay him but she doesn't want to upset him because she's scared he'll try to commit suicide--- before he was properly diagnosed and on ADD meds he had suicidal thoughts but has not since. He sees his psych dr every week but nothing is helping. I truly feel if he would have a steady income life would be better and so would our marriage. I feel used and financially abused. I want us to be happy again, not only for us, but for our daughter. Most days im depressed, hopeless, and angry. Help!

Linsy's picture

Mirror image

Exactly the same experience. In fact several blogs over the years, nothing done or not done right. I said to myself so often, that I had no idea what he did all day. Except for rack up parking tickets and spend money. I left him 5 years ago, and come back here to remind myself why I did if I ever feel myself slipping.

feelingletdown's picture

ADHD husband also cannot get/keep a job.

I concur with your frustration.  It's Christmas Day and I slept in simply because there is nothing to celebrate.  

I've been married to my loser husband going on 16 years and counting, but I'm at my last straw because we're down to our last few hundred dollars with no hope or money headed towards us.  Hubby has been unemployed for most of the time we've been married.  His longest job was 3 1/2 years at a stupid place that used him and paid him very little, but of course he kept thinking they would 'promote' him if he tried hard enough.  When I finally convinced him that in order to make more money and get ahead in life he would have to quit the loser job and get something better paying . . . now he can't get ANY job.  He got fired from the first job after he quit; sales.  Then he started studying for an upgraded driver's license because he was certain having a B license would solve all his problems.  It took 8 months of UNEMPLOYMENT and probably 12 tries but he finally passed the test.  Guess what?  Yep, NO miraculous job to be found.  He drives once in a blue moon for the local school buses; otherwise he can't even BUY himself a job.  Then he figured he needed a HAZMAT endorsement.  He got that after a few months but STILL NO WORK.

Of course it doesn't help that the idiot REFUSES to live anywhere near a 'crap city'.  I have tried over & over again to tell him that most of the jobs are actually IN the 'crap' cities, but he won't listen.  I think because of his ADHD he cannot remember WHERE he is, EVER, so driving in a city seems to him like he's always on another planet where he doesn't know where anything is.  He cannot work a smart phone because he can barely even work a computer.  He's also dyslexic, so all his job applications, inquiries, etc. look like a retard wrote them.  In the beginning I did ALL of that stuff for him; only to have him reject half of the inquiries so I decided he wouldn't take it seriously unless he did the work for himself.  

I've been telling him for months that I am extremely unhappy and want to separate, but then whenever we discuss it, in the end he always figures its because of my depression that I feel this way towards him and that if he can ever get a job it'll be OK.  I actually wrote IN HIS CHRISTMAS CARD that I don't think I can stay with him because I cannot depend on him financially - and that I'm not asking for the moon - just enough money to help pay our bills and he can't do that even.  He keeps telling me he's trying his hardest and I know he actually IS.  That's what makes me so frustrated and angry with myself because it's almost like kicking a dumb dog when he's at his lowest and that is NOT ME.  It's just that we are now down to the bottom of what little money we did have in savings, and no incomes and no way out of this mess.  And I hear the same things out of him that I've BEEN hearing for 16+ years . . . that he's trying.  Trying doesn't pay the bills, tho.

 And I personally had to work more and more and more at the job I HATE until I'm now disabled and CAN'T work the higher paying job I had before (which he used that fact in order to NOT work in the beginning because he felt he deserved more).  I hate myself for trying to get rid of this dummy, but then again, I hate HIM because he's making me so stressed over never being able to get work.  

yeah, at least your hubs works...

Mine hasn't in over two years, either, and Lord forbid he find one more article to send to me AT WORK about how hard it is now for ppl over 50 (he's 51, btw) to find employment. Don't get me wrong, I know jobs are VERY hard to find, period, much less for older ppl right now.  But he has just about just quit trying to find a job. Any job. That leads me to what I wanted to say about your original post...until about 3 months ago, ever since BEFORE he got let go from his last job, I was more resentful, bitter and even jealous (of other couples) than you could imagine about our money situation...I don't want to get into me and off you, so I'll just say this:  in my opinion, based on my experience, I *HAD* to "let money go", in a sense.  I could no longer let money dictate my feelings - about anything! I got to where I HATED to go to the grocery store on Saturday (which used to be one of the little chores I used to love-don't ask me why, lol) bc I really had to make it like another JOB, to really plan the trip out into several places to include the Dollar Store, Big Lots, etc, in order to save money (and that's fine, I've adapted, and refuse to pay full price at Publix anymore LOL). We were in desperate need of a new(er) car...that's one thing my hubs is tight with, he will NOT ever have a car note, he pays cash for cars, every time, so you can imagine what we drive...well, my job is in a big city 70 miles from where we live, and since I'm the only one working, I felt *entitled* to a new car.  After working SO HARD to get my credit straightened back out to buy a new car, all I needed then was him to find a job...ANYTHING...to help with some of the utilities, so I could get a car loan, just to get to work!!! As you now know, that has never happened.  But you know what??  I have a strong Faith, but not religious, so I told God, "Ok, You know what I need. I am going to need a car to get to work, bc I sure can't get a car loan right now, there's no way we can make it with one more monthly bill". How about his parents GAVE me a used car last month. I kid you not. I'm the only woman in his family that works outside of the home, so I'm somewhat of an enigma to them (LOL) how I work basically 60 hours (including commute, that is), and handle all of our household finances (HAVE to - took me forever to get his utilities ahead when I met him) and such.  Now I will praise my husband's name for this...he's VERY hyper, so he likes to stay busy, so he does clean up around the house every day, does the laundry, looks after our two little real old dogs, sweeps, cleans the floors, dusts, makes the beds, and he'll usually try to find something to do to show me what he accomplished when I get home in the evening...kinda like "looky what I did for ya, Ma!" so I will do what the experts suggest, and praise him, basically like a child, and it works...I really think that's why he does so much, bc I'll have a fit over how good a job he did, or how much I'm so glad and grateful for what he did, etc., it seems to make him WANT to do more...just like a child when you reward them for good behavior. 

Another thing that's just a comment of my opinion; marriage is a covenant, not a contract...you give what you have to the covenant/marriage, expecting nothing in return.  Us gals that are married to these guys (and the guys married to the girls) that have this condition, there's nothing we can do to change the formations of their brains that they have had since before they were born, to make them think, react, and reason like we do. Nothing. Sure, the medicine helps most "function" during the day, but after the medicine wears off, they are still ADHD, it does not re-form their brain.  That being said, I've accepted my husband's condition, realize he will not change, he will not go get put on medicine (another subject for another time) and he will always be the way he is...so I had to decide if I wanted to live like this...this is my 2nd marriage, and his 3rd, so I am hell bent and determined to make this work.  Sure, I get a little tired sometimes, okay, purely exhausted, when trying to figure out why he did this, or why he said that, or whatever, but I also remember he is my precious gift from God that I have been given to take care of and cherish, so that's what I try to do.  Yes, it's hard. No, it's not easy. But, it WORKS. (for me)

TL;DR: don't let money/financial security dictate your life...it could be gone tomorrow, with or without your husband.  Marriage is a covenant, not a contract, when you give more of yourself and consciously do not expect something in return, you WILL be amazed.  I *promise* you.  I am very sorry you are so frustrated and angry, believe me, I totally understand where you are coming from.  But, just remember that "life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it"...keep your emotions in check, keep your faith (in anything) and never give up hope.  I'm proof this works.  :o)

Good luck!!!! xoxo julie jay

 

 

 

 

 

Good advice but hard to follow

Good advice Julie Jay but it's so hard to follow.  UGH!  I know money isn't everything but it's still an important part of life so it's hard not to be resentful when your spouse is not helping with the finances.  But I have asked myself this question: If I had all the money that I needed would that take away my anger and frustration?  And my answer is: Maybe some, but definitely not all of it.  I envy you that your husband helps around the house.  If my husband is not working I feel the least he could do is relieve me of some of the household chores so I don't have to come home and spend hours cooking and cleaning after a long day at work.  Like you, we have dogs and one of them is very old and he needs a lot of extra care so I get up several times a night dealing with him.  Often I only get 4-5 hours of sleep (I'm one of those people who need my 8 hours) so I think I have less patience than I should.  But when I get up in the morning to get ready for work and find dishes in the sink, that he promised me he would do before he went to bed, it just sends me over the edge.  And by the way, my husband stays up till 2am watching tv most nights and then sleeps til 10am so I find it hard to understand why he can't take 5-10 minutes to clean up the kitchen during a commercial break (or pause the stupid thing).  I work all day, come home and pick up after him and the dogs, cook dinner and feed the dogs and all I ask of him is to do a few dishes so it just doesn't seem like too much to ask.  If it's something he wants to do he has no problem doing it so I look at his actions as disrespect.  He has some health issues that I cater too so it takes extra time to cook/bake everything from scratch and I feel so disrespected when he won't even help clean up.  I have asked nicely and explained that if I cook he should clean up and he agrees that it's fair.  But then more often than not I wake up and have to do the dishes myself.  If I don't do them most likely they will be waiting for me when I get home from work.  But on the occasions where he actually does what he has promised to do he wants all kinds of recognition for it.  I have a hard time with this since it's just normal household chores that we should be sharing (but I actually think he should be doing more than me because I'm at work all day).  He always apologizes and agrees he should have done what he promised but I don't really buy that he's sorry because it keeps happening over and over again.  So Julie please tell me how you got past the anger, bitterness and frustration and are able to praise your husband for a job he should be doing anyway?  And how do you respect a man as the head of household if you have to take care of him like a child? 

I wanted a partner in life not a child to care for.  And along with him came needy family members - parents who have no money so I bought them a home to live in and pay for it monthly because they can't even contribute a few dollars for rent (and I also pay for their cell phone because they are elderly and it's not safe for them to be without a phone) and his sons who have major issues and have caused so many problems for us.  One son mooched off me for a year and a half before I kicked him out.  He was 19 when he came to live with us and all I asked of him was to get a part time job to pay his way and to clean up after himself.  After being his maid and provider for over a year, and seeing he had no intention of doing anything except play on his computer all day, I said I'd had enough.  He is now 23 years old and has chosen to be homeless rather than work.  I feel so dragged down by this family.  My family and friends think I'm crazy allowing all of this into my life. 

Sorry I'm just venting...but sometimes, like this morning, I feel like I'm loosing my mind.  I want a normal life.  I want my dreams back.  I want someone to take care of me once in awhile.

Laurie

BELIEVE ME, I know it is...

hard to follow, and I hope I don't come across that I follow it myself so perfectly, either...I am only human. Lol  But, they are conscience thoughts that I try to remember in the "heat of the moment" or any other time I feel that bitterness and resentment creeping in.  Bitterness and resentment will eat you alive and kill you.

This really hit home to me, that you said: "I feel like I'm loosing my mind.  I want a normal life.  I want my dreams back.  I want someone to take care of me once in awhile."

That pretty much sums up my feelings of my existence from around June 2010 til, like I said before, around 3-6 months ago.  At that point, I realized my life will never be "normal", by our definition.  I will *always* have to take care of him, in one way or another.  I had not signed up to be someone's mother (I don't have any children of my own) AND husband/provider.  My "dreams" have changed, drastically, from what they once were and have different purpose.  Lastly, I know that God will supply all my needs, no matter what my situation.  It helps to have the Faith, know the Word and lean on it, and *BELIEVE* it.  (I'm sorry if I sound like I am proselytizing, I'm just letting you know what works for me)

I am really sorry about his family doing you like that. In that regard, I am VERY fortunate that he comes from a great family, and he has great kids, all of whom I get along with great.

It sounds like you take care of not only him, but all of his family and *everything*...at first, I was like that. Then I realized there's no way in the world I can do it all. SO, now I have to categorize what is going to make the world crash and burn, and what is really not that big of a deal if it don't get done today.  Living in this mindset makes it hard to plan and to borrow your phrase, to dream, because I don't know what tomorrow holds....and as such, I just try to remember that I'm not promised tomorrow, and just live right now, in the moment, today, one day at a time.

I promise, promise, promise you I know how simplistic it sounds...but I also PROMISE you on my life, this mindset and way of thinking is what keeps me sane, from day to day.

I hope this helps, Laurie. :o)  xo-julie jay

Thank you Julie...

you are an inspiration to me.  My husband wonders why I won't dream with him (he wants to move out of state and doesn't understand why I won't jump on board and be willing to uproot my life and give up my business which supports us).  I used to dream with him but now, like you said, I have to live in the present because I never know what tomorrow is going to hold for us.  But you are right, we are never promised tomorrow.  I've let my faith slip because of my anger and resentment and that has also been unhealthy for me.  My husband and his parents are very strong in their faith but I got so tired of hearing them say how they were trusting in God to take care of them, as if they had no responsibility in it at all.  And in the end I was the one taking care of them so I got angry at God.  But all that is for another topic altogether.  I just wanted to let you know your words have inspired me to try and change myself.  I would love to be able to trust God more like I used too and to work towards a simpler life.  I'm sick of all the stress and the rat race in the state I live in so maybe there is hope that I can eventually get out of here and live my dreams if that is what God feels is best for me.  My husband and I know where we want to go, I just sort of gave up because of the unknown.  Maybe I need to stop being so afraid?  But I've always been the responsible one, the planner and the organizer.  It's hard to give it all up to God when you have this kind of personality!  :)

Thanks Julie!!!

You are sweet, thanks! you have no idea...

how similar your situation and mine are.  As you know, my DH has been looking for a job for the last 2 yrs...all over the country.  And, like you, he STILL, to this very moment, does not understand why I would dig in and not just pack up the whole house and get ready to move, all because he was going to have an interview.  I kid you not.  The most recent of this was last spring, to Miami.  MIAMI - IN PRE SUMMER.  We live in Georgia, he still has one child under 18, and thank the Lord, because it was my reminding him of being separated from her that was the ONLY voice of any reason why he didn't just pack and move, overnight.  I believe it's proven that the ADHD's have trouble thinking of consequences, due to the formation of their frontal lobe...they are all about what's right for THEM, right NOW, everyone and everything else be damned. Truthfully, it's where I help my husband the most, bc his middle name is Impulse...the reason we live in a town 70 miles from the big city where we both had jobs at one time???  Because he found a house in a beautiful setting and decided he wanted to live there.  Yep, that's it.  SO, we decided to try to sell our house in the absolute bottom of the market - not even exaggerating, it started going back up the month after we sold - that took over a year, he had lost his job 2 months after we moved, so I had TWO houses (oh, did I mention the house we bought was a foreclosure? you know those come with problems) to maintain the mortgages, utilities, handymen, repairs, etc etc...wiped out a sweet chunk of my IRA.  Ok, half of it.  That started a deep downward spiral into the bitterness and resentment part.  I, too, am one of those that have to have at least 8 hrs of sleep, and getting up at 5:30 a.m. to beat Atlanta rush hour traffic was just not in my ultimate life plan, and after I had spent half of my life savings???  I think you can draw a picture.  I was angry from I think the Monday after we moved over there until whatever day it was a couple of months ago that I had the revelation that this was now my life, that I could accept it and do what [I feel] God has called me to do, or I could not, like I did in my first marriage, that the choice was mine.

And, by the way, you can bet your last dollar I understand about being mad at God....oh boy can I, and very recently, too.  What was weird, is the week that I was *SO* mad, even thought about denouncing my Faith, that Sunday, I just happened to catch my old pastor online giving his sermon, which he gave out of the Book of James -  James 1:2-8 and 4:13-16.  AND, he even said in his sermon "...and there are people, when they don't get their way, have the audacity to get mad with God...God tells us in James that we are not guaranteed even our very lives..." - that opened my eyes, WIDE. 

Yes, you are absolutely right, God doesn't just drop stuff out of the sky on us to take care of us, He gave us a complicated machine called a brain to use to help ourselves, along with other people....BUT, I'd be a liar if I sat here and told you that I didn't really rely on God for my needs.  Yes, I get up and go to work everyday, never lay out, I work hard at my job, I do what needs to be done...but I can tell you it is not by MY strength that I do it.  "For my Grace is sufficient for you, for My Power is made PERFECT in your weakness".  1 Cor 12:9  If I tried to do everything by my power (will) I'd probably be in prison for murder.

Again, I hope I don't come across as self-righteous or have all the answers or that my life is perfect, bc it sure has heck ain't...all of this is just what helps me get through, and not losing my mind trying to make it all work myself...that's where I always trip up and screw up.  Once you "let go and let God", it *starts* to get a little easier, and you start to see the areas you need to start simplifying.

again, I just hope this helps you simply *survive*. 

:o) xo- julie jay 

anger at God

Laurie and Julie,

Sorry to hijack the thread, but your posts meant so much to me.  God and I "had it out" last year.  :-)  I was so angry, so hurt, so lost, and God took the brunt of it.  You know what?  He's okay with that.  The message from your pastor that "people have the audacity to be mad" isn't Biblical.  Read the Psalms.  Pages and pages and pages of people railing at God in anger.  Life is hard.  Sometimes, it just plain old stinks.  I ended up leaving my church last year because I kept being handed Christian platitudes that did nothing but make me more angry and drive me further from God.  I found CS Lewis' book on grief and he was good and mad at God.  Mother Theresa felt abandoned and apart from God.  Two of the pillars of the faith expressing very real, human emotions.  THAT'S what got me through - proof that God can take our anger, and it doesn't affect how He feels about us at all.  NOTHING separates us from the love of God. (paraphrase of Romans 8:38-39)

If one more person told me last year "When God closes a door, praise Him in the hallway" I was gonna smack 'em.  I'd have been filled with the love of Jesus when I did of course!  :-)

I hope both of you are doing okay today, and know you are not alone in what you're experiencing.  Sometimes I think God shows up by sending us to places like this board for comfort and acceptance!

Yes God can take it

I agree with you OMT2013 that God can take our anger and it doesn't change the way he feels about us.  But I think the pastor Julie referred too was just making the point that it really is sort of stupid to be mad at God because we aren't promised anything, not even tomorrow.  But as humans, with a huge range of emotions, it's natural to get angry and some of us lay the blame and frustration on God, even though he isn't the one who is causing our pain.  So I agree with both of you and I'm so thankful that I found this website and forum because up until now I've felt so alone.  Not that I want anyone else to be going through this but it does help to know there are others who understand.

My husband starts training in a new job tomorrow.  It's hard for me to get my hopes up but I know that's wrong because I should be thinking positive thoughts and letting God take care of the rest.  But I'm a realist too so it's hard for me not to wonder just how long he will be at this new job (the last one only lasted 3 weeks).  Hopefully this will be the one he can hold on to for awhile!

I hope both of you are doing well and thank you both for your input and understanding.

Hugs,

Laurie

I'm sorry I just saw this!

HI OMT2013 - 1st, I'd just like to say that I really am sorry about your experience at your former church, and YES, these days, there's far more Clicheians and Churchians than there are "real" Christians, that is, people who realize that it takes more than a building or self-title to make you who and what you are, but life principals to live by, and those kind of people love to put a nice little tidy pink bow on every situation and say "God Bless You, I'm prayin for ya" - James plainly tells us this is FALSE religion.

I just want to be clear about the sermon I heard that morning...the pastor was saying people have the audacity to be mad at God WHEN THINGS DON'T GO THEIR WAY, OR THEIR PRAYERS DON'T GET ANSWERED THE WAY THEY THINK THEY SHOULD...you never impose *your* will on God...just because we ask Him for something, He is not obliged to give it to us...that was the full context of the sermon, and I should have been more clear.  And, yep, do read the Psalms, actually every day, there's a cool little process my sis in law taught me, you take today's date, add 30 and read the 5 Psalms of the day, along with the Proverb of the Day.  So, today, you would read Psalm 10, 40, 70, 100 and 130.  Tomorrow you would read 11, 41, 71, 101, 131, and so on.  I love the Psalms and can SO relate to King David. 

One thing you said, that I'm not sure how you mean, but saying being angry with God is Biblical...stories (heck, the whole book of Job) and situations of people being angry with God may be in the Bible, to teach us, but that doesn't mean it's Biblical to be angry with God....there's also murder, incest, infanticide, theft, adultery, malice, treason, betrayal, etc etc etc in the Bible, but that don't make them Biblical. But I do agree that He did create us and is full aware of our emotions and what we feel at any given moment...AND I also believe that He will meet us where we're at (emotionally/human)...part of the reason He sent Jesus.

I lolled at if someone else said Praise Him in the hallway, you were gonna smack em...LOL!  and I don't blame you!!  Next time, tell them "Actually, the phrase goes: When God closes one door, He opens another, but it's Hell in the hallway.."  That's the way I've always heard it, and is much more fitting.  ;o)

And you are also exactly right, that God is in the darndest places....like this board, through each of us, helping each other.  :o)

Romans 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

We do seem to have a lot in common

Every time I read something you write Julie, I can't believe how similar our situations are.  Again I thank you for your post and encouraging words and in no way do you come across as self-righteous.  You are just in a little different place than I am at this point, and much healthier too I might add.  I need to hear these things to get my focus back to where it should be.

It's hard living in California, where it's so extremely liberal and money plays such a huge role in life.  I'm in a upper middle class area so almost everyone I know is better off than we are.  That's hard to take.  Even my Christian friends look at life a little differently than people in other areas of the country.  My husband is from the south east and I lived in Kentucky for 6 years so I know the difference and it's pretty big.  I'm tired of the fast pace and the money driven people here and would love to move but I'm also scared to death to think about it.  My in-laws live in Florida and because my husband has his coast guard captains license he has been trying to persuade me to move there and "promises" he can get steady work there.  I'd love to believe that!  But alas, I'm a realist and I know that there is a good chance i could be supporting us there just like I do here, but there I'd have to start all over again.  My husband says I don't have faith because I'm not willing to take the chance.  There is part of me that's so tired of the struggle here that I think maybe I should let him convince me, but then the other part of me (the practical part) says I'd be crazy to make such a move.

You really hit it right on the head when you said ADHD's are all about what's right for them right now.  My husband seems to lack common sense and just can't see why i don't agree with his plans (that seem so crazy to me).  So at this point I told him if he could keep a job here for 1 year then i would be in agreement to send him back to the Gulf Coast to look for work.  I told him that he would have to be employed another year there before i would consider leaving my job to make the move but I would be more open to the change if he was working steadily for awhile.  Cost of living is sooooo much less there so maybe it would be best.

Sorry I'm rambling, just amazed that I've finally found a place where people understand what I'm going through!

Hugs,

Laurie

really really a lot in common

You won't believe this, but I told my hubs the EXACT. SAME. THING. about I would stay back and work for a year to make sure (whatever job at the moment it was) would work out, etc, look after our house that WE JUST BOUGHT, prepare to rent it out, etc etc etc.  Yep, I totally feel you. 

I also feel you about looking around you and the money thing...I swear that I swear that I SWEAR to you, on my life, that I used to feel the same way!!!!!!!! I promise!!! Like I mentioned to you before, I'm the only married woman in his family that works...when we met, I really thought I was going to be able to fit right in with them, at least I had hoped so! Lol. Shoot, that was one of the [very selfish] reasons I jumped so fast to move in with him!! I thought I was going to be taken care of!!!!  About maybe 2 months after I moved in, then it started with what all was I going to pay to contribute bc all his bills "had just sky rocketed so high the two months I had been living there"...yeah, right. :o[  I see the writing on the wall, now.

I can also only imagine what the cost of living is like for y'all, out in California...holy moly. And there's only your income??  WOO WEE.  Thankfully, VERY THANKFULLY, when we moved, we moved to a much smaller town outside of the metro area, so our living expenses are almost about a third of what they were in Atlanta.  You wanna talk about LUCKY??  I consider it all in God's timing, because I can tell you right now, without a doubt in my mind, if he had lost his job, had not found anything in two years and we were still living in Atlanta with those 2 mortgages and the high utilities and high everything else???  oh no ma'am...I wouldn't even need to be on this board or be having this conversation with you. I can promise you that.

I chuckled when you said you were a realist and that your DH said you don't have any faith bc of not taking the chance...God as my witness, I have heard those same. exact. words.  (Screaming at me "WHY DON'T YOU JUST HAVE A LITTLE FAITH????") Whenever I don't just jump on his bandwagon (a lot like the way you describe your DH wanting you to just leave and go to FL), he will definitely get his knickers in a knot, then I'm all kinds of  B's with no "entrepreneurial sense" "negative" "pessimistic" "always have to rain on somebody's parade", etc etc etc.  So, he was telling his dad, after his dad asked what I thought about his latest "entrepreneurial" venture at the time, he said "all she gives me is flack and negative feedback" - how about his dad said "No, she's just a realist".  I told him I think that's more accurate...or a pragmatist, I like that title, too...I can usually tell you everything that can go wrong with any given situation (working for lawyers for 16 yrs has helped in that regard).  ADHD'ers see this as purely negativism and take it personal, with zero constructiveness, bc, again, this delays their want/need of instant gratification and that's all they can see and I believe do not have the ability to see past this point (based on my experiences).

I'm like you, too, that I am SO glad I found this board, probably about 4 (or 3?) years ago now, but I just started posting *ANYTHING*, recently.  When I first found this site, I just sat and read and cried for about two days because I finally saw and realized that it was NOT me that caused his problems, and that I was not the only female in the world that was married to a man that acted and reacted the way my husband does, and again, the most important realization is that it was. NOT. because. of. ME.  After that, I just tried to read and find out everything I could about ADHD, the symptoms, their triggers, how to cope as a Non and a Non Spouse, etc.  I think I'm almost to the point where I can put one foot in front of the other and not be scared to death of falling right on my face.

I know this is only words, but I really will be praying for your DH's job interview tomorrow and that what needs to happen, will happen.  :o)

Good luck, Laurie!!!!  It's really great chatting with you!  :o)  julie jay

Just now seeing this...

I haven't been on this forum for about a week due to family stuff and work.  Busy time of year.  :)  I logged on today mostly just to re-read some of your old posts Julie, because they make me feel so much more hopeful.  Then I saw your response to my last post and wanted to thank you for your prayers. DH was offered the job, pending the outcome of his drug test.  Unfortunately, DH has surgery scheduled on Monday before Christmas and won't be able to work for a couple of weeks.  His new boss is OK with that so I assume he will have a job when he recovers.  However, he is already saying things like "I probably will only work for this guy for a few months because the pay isn't good enough" and I'll probably start looking for a company that pays more while I'm recovering from surgery".  This tells me he probably won't stick with this one for very long, if he even starts it at all.  It's hard not to feel hopeless.

Today I'm having a hard time, feeling like telling him to pack his stuff and go to Florida so I can get on with my life.  Some days I feel like he's a weight dragging me down.  I feel like telling him that if he loves me he will either step up and be a partner or leave so I can get on with my life.  I know that won't do any good, it won't change who he is, but it's what I'm feeling today.  I really had it so much better when I was alone and it's hard not to wish I had my old life back.  On days like this I feel like I've wasted 7 years.

I so very much appreciate your responses to me Julie.  They make me smile and, although I don't wish this on anyone, it's nice to know there is someone who understands.  It amazes me how much we have in common and it gives me hope to hear that you have found the strength to deal with this way of life.  So on days like today I need to read your posts and pick myself up and try to have a better attitude.

I hope you are having a good week and thanks again for your prayers!  Hugs, Laurie

i *do* understand....

and, until yesterday evening, i was ready to move to CA to be your roommate....

my hubs was in sales for 25+ yrs in the metro area, long story short, it appears he is not getting even calls back from basic sales jobs like Altria (cigarette reps to grocery stores, for cryin out loud), due to his age (we can't figure out what else it could be, i proofed his resume, he's built and sold 2 businesses and built the book of business for 3 others!), so, he decided he needed to learn a trade, and picked electrician...ok, that's fine with me, so he literally RUNS over to the local VoTech school and registers for classes, talks to the advisor, i burn $15 to get his transcripts RUSHED to the VoTech school, etc etc you know how it goes by now...THEN he starts to vet it out.  Story of my life.  So, after he starts looking into this, he finds out that if he joins a union, and can get hired by a contractor employer, the employer as being a contractor for the union, has to pay for his training vs. us paying out of pocket for VoTech school...all this mad rush to find all of this out has been going on since last Friday, the day he ran over and registered....so, yesterday morning, before he went to the first union to find out more about how it all works, his confidence started to falter (after reading there was a math test/analysis involved)..."i don't know. maybe i need to re-think this whole thing before i burn $1300. i'm 51 yrs old. who's going to hire me? what if i can't get a contractor to hire me and have to pay 4 yrs of this out of pocket?" what if...what if...what if.  This is crass, but drives the point home, my Dad used to say "IF my Aunt had had balls, she would have been my Uncle" - meaning IF is a big word.  So, I told him he didn't owe them a thing, just go talk to them and see what they say....and you know what?????  the story I heard last night, about how it all went, I *PROMISE* you, I honestly could not believe my ears.  First, he scored a 96% on the dreaded math test, so that boosted his confidence actually a lot.  Next, it sounded like he got a person that was actually nice and helpful...my hubs is the type of ADHDer that gets easily offended at any perceived slight, whether real or imagined, and will show his tail and walk out on a place so fast it'll make your head swim...so whoever this lady was yesterday, i could literally kiss her feet right now....ANYWAY, she explained everything to him, answered all of his questions, and basically reassured him that there were ppl with absolutely no experience that do get hired and go on to do well (one example she gave him was some guy that went on to become an Electrical Engineer) and while he was telling me all of this, I could honestly tell he was enthusiastic and excited about it!! I wanted to cut cartwheels!!!  All I could do was say, literally, "Praise God".

All of MY rambling is to say that even though your husband is already talking about leaving the job he hasn't even started yet, TRY not to worry about it, and just try to trust that it will all work out, and try to support him in the mean time, and I know that's hard and tiresome, but they do recognize and realize it...my DH will get SO mad at me when i'm the "realist" and tell him how and why this won't work and that won't work, etc etc, but he made the comment one night earlier this week "I know, I know, I'm not fussing *at* you, but the situation, I know that you're my biggest fan.." and I told him you damn straight, and there won't be another one like me. And he knows I'm right. (they ALWAYS know we're right, they just don't like to accept it)

It sounds like your husband really loves you and is actually really trying, from what you've shared, it's the symptoms that's driving you crazy, not the man on the inside you fell in love with....another facet that keeps me married, is I know my husband's heart.  If he was vile and hateful in general, I definitely would have no use for him.

I read your post here yesterday when it notified me that there was a new comment, but the way I was feeling, I didn't feel like I had anything helpful to offer, so I honestly prayed about it while driving home last night...about my situation (what was I going to walk in the door to hear), about your situation (and I don't know you from Adam! LOL), and other things...then, right after I got done praying, I turned the radio up, and the announcer was just finishing praying for prayer requests, then gave this verse...it's a common verse, that I have repeated over and over, especially at times when we are down to less than $50 and we have to get through the weekend to get gas and groceries or whatever, and when he said it, it hit me like a rock through a windshield, and I knew at that moment, that's what I was supposed to tell you:  Jeremiah 29:11 - For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. Plans to PROSPER you, NOT to harm you, but plans to GIVE YOU HOPE, AND A FUTURE.

I hope today is better Laurie and I hope your husband will actually LOVE the new job after he recoups from surgery, which will give you at least a small mental break for at least a little while. :o)

xoxo-julie jay

Oh wow

first of all Julie I have to say that I'm so happy for you and your husband and I wish him the very best going through this electrician program!  Such awesome news, thanks for sharing.  Those are the types of things we all need to hear to increase our hope and belief!

It brought tears to my eyes when you shared about hearing the scripture on the radio after praying...what a Word!  I need to write that one down and read it daily! Some days it feels like we will never prosper, I know you know that feeling.

I had to laugh when you said your husband is one of those ADHDers who gets easily offended because mine is the same way (yet another thing we have in common).  It's so strange to me how he can perceive rudeness from somebody or get defensive over the smallest things.  It's like he thinks everyone is out to get him.  I'm on pins and needles when we go somewhere because i never know how he will react.  We can hear the same thing and he takes it totally differently from me.  And I know there are lots of rude people out there but being in a customer service business myself I've learned to deal with it, he never has.  We have had many an argument over that! 

So I'm taking your advice and I'm not going to worry about this new job and I'm going to try and be positive about it. I've really lost my patience with him lately and I have to be careful not to say everything that pops into my head.  My husband is a sweet and caring man at heart and he loves me very much...but he can irritate the heck out of me!  It's too bad we don't live closer so we can escape the madness together once in awhile!  I got a chuckle out of you saying you were ready to come room with me in Ca because this morning I probably would have jumped on the first plane to come room with you!

Please keep in touch Julie, I really enjoy reading your posts, they have helped me so much!

xoxo Laurie

 

finance boundaries

the only thing that has worked for me is seperating our finances. I pay household important bills he pays all his other crap (and usually does not do this well). I show him what he nees to give me to pay what bills (we used to do this monthly but he prefers annually b/c talking about bills and budgests stress him out) we agreed he would give me a set amount each month and I would use that amount to pay the budgeted bills. I only tackle debt that he has if it is medical related b/c I am in charge of paying the medical bills. If the bills are more than his monthly allotment I explain why and he gives me more. I don't know how he comes up with it but he does. I take care of my finances and future. I do not know how he will retire or take care of himself in old age. I told him I am not planning that for him. And worse case you can legally separate but stay married in the eyes of the church. he can still use your health insurance and be a beneficiary on your life insurance. you are just legally financially separate. I have thought about doing this.

I feel so sorry for you

I feel so sorry for you. I hope you pull through with all the support on the forums. Stick with it - it is worth it in the end.

Hipocracy

This sounds simple and positive, but my experience like most on the forum.............there is too much confusion in the ADHD partner to see what is normal and most issue are not normal everyday issues.

Interesting

I feel the same sometimes but my husband went through rough time and lost everything he had I helped him a lot as well and still to this day because we are family .my brother in law is getting married and his wife to be always keep saying how she is paying and doing this and that and at least my brother in law is helping her financially where my husband couldn't before when we're getting married . I can't deny the fact that she make me think was I desperate to get married to help my husband like that or I did it because I was deeply in love and wanted to be with this person he is very good man but my sister in law to be words make me feel bad :(

Married to ADHD

It is unfortunate that as a society mental illness is viewed as something treatable with a pill: What about the behaviors? Neurologically, there may be a chemical imbalance, however, a pill does not correct the years of dysfunctional behavior. Without the ability to afford behavioral modification treatment, the insurance organization's are contributing to the problem. 

A family practitioner is not qualified to psychologically diagnose a person's mental incapacity or condition during a well-care visit. Although, there many practitioner's currently dispensing SSRI's, anti-anxiety, and amphetamines (Adderall) for a myriad of chemical imbalances, without the benefit of a psychological assessments, their intentions, I believe, are honorable. Honestly, I do not fault them, since in their professional medical opinion, they are trying to subdue or quell the psychological discomfort of their patient with a prescribed medication. Unfortunately, their is no end-game to mental illness.It's not like a sinus infection where you take the antibiotic, and the infection goes away. 

That is why, I believe, that diagnosing mental illness without the benefit of a psychological assessment (e.g., MMPI) is not comprehensive treatment; and, taking a pill (or pills) may temporarily quell the discomforts, but without behavioral modification, the dysfunctional behaviors are never addressed, thus continue.    

 

 

I think the meds are believed...

I think the meds are the only way to quell the urges that lead to the bad behaviors.  It's too late to address the behaviors without meds.  That time was in YOUNG childhood.  Now, the behaviors are ingrained, and only meds can offer some sort of softening the urges/anxiety/depression that bring on those horrible behaviors.

I Think This is Close to Being Accurate.......

But still incomplete OW.  With all due respect to Portland62's comments as well.....I think there is a common misconception here within the wording and this time it's not just semantics but based of some factual evidence that is supported by the results.  I can speak directly about the results myself and apply what I know.

The behaviors themselves, which you are focused on since they are what affect you most (negatively) are only symptoms (or a by product ) of ADHD itself.  I think what is needed here is some clarification of what you are trying to apply to each thing as a separate issue since you have mentions several components of ADHD that are distinctly different or separate from one another and you can not use one to apply to another.  Well....you can....but you would be incorrect in doing so.  Let me try to makes this distinction.

I think this can be explained better using the example of your computer......  To make your computer work and provide you with the ability to use it  you must have  hard ware, software and the interface between the two.....

Hardware......depending on the hardware capability ie: capacities in speed and storage connected to memory and hard drive, RAM (short term memory or random access memory), circuitry (mother drive or core processor ie: single core, dual core, quad core or shared core technology) .....the combination of these physical components will determine how your computer will behave and respond to you across the board no matter what program or software programs you are applying. You also have external drives (CD, DVD and disk players and storage), monitor screen, keyboard, speakers (sound system), mouse and touchpad.  These are the human interface components.

Software......depending on the software capability and the complexity of the program.....it may require a certain level of performance from you computer to function properly.  Older computers could not keep up with the programs that were designed to be used on them and required greater capacities in order for them to function properly or even at all in some cases ( partial or total dysfunction)...if applied to an older or outdated computer system (hardware).

  On a newer up to dated computer with these capabilities (all new hardware, core drives and circuitry to handle the huge algorithms created by the binary code)....it's the equivalent of increasing the pipe size of your plumbing in your house to allow more water to flow out the end of the faucet when the demand for water at the end of the line becomes greater than the flow rate and capacity of the pipe you have.  The greater the demand....the larger size pipe you need to deliver the water (or binary code amount which is dependent on the size algorithm that is presented to be processed by the hard ware itself. (the pipe size in this example)

When talking about ADHD itself....what are we talking about here?  It's a hardwiring circuitry issue and a hardware problem.  But it's only a problem depending on how you approach this.

The hardwiring circuitry is fixed and cannot be changed.  Like in the example of an older or newer computer with different capacities to handle larger more complex program demands and information processing.....you cannot do anything to an older computer aside from few upgrades a few like adding RAM and hard drive speed and memory within a limited (and finite) range.  You will never get an older outdated computer to utilize a newer program that exceeds the required capacity to make it work.

Now lets talk about ADHD:  the symptoms(the behavior), the causes(the hardware circuitry) ,the side effects (co morbid conditions like depression and anxiety) and the treatment (meds or pills)

And the term...."mental illness" (while I personally don't take exception and don't care what you call it....no skin off my nose here and it really doesn't matter in the big scheme of things) is antiquated and no longer currently being used by experts in this field of study.......and it's definitely not PC.  It is a currently misapplied and out moded term that used to be used when they didn't know any better out of ignorance about this topic in the past.   It's simply not accurate and a misnomer at the current level of understanding.  The word "illness" implies a possible cure as in a pathogen, virus or bacteria as the cause.  The solution for example might be an antibiotic pill to kill the pathogen.  This simply does not apply to ADHD.  It is the wrong word being applied to the wrong thing.  If you want to apply this analogy correctly for example....it would fit referring back to your computer when talking about a computer virus that attacks the software or program.  A computer virus will affect the behavior of your computer as you interface with it....but the source is in the software not the hardware in comparing this to ADHD.  ADHD is a hardware issue not a software issue at the source. 

Adderall or stimulant medication is the right thing for the right reason.  It's treating the hardware and increasing the capabilities and the capacity levels of the brain for someone with ADHD.  That doesn't guarantee it will get applied though.  That's up to each individual to apply it and get any benefit from out of it on your end.  On your end means....the behaviors YOU want to see gone or improved.

You are also completely missing the most important part of this for US....the person who has it.  It makes our own interface better.  It makes life more enjoyable and eases suffering.  If you discount our suffering your are seeing this with one eye closed.  If you want to talk about the symptoms and the behaviors themselves....that's and entirely different topic and irrelevant for how WE feel. 

Without the Adderall, stimulant meds, or any other meds that you can apply to the other areas I mentioned like depression and anxiety.....we don't feel good.  Does this not matter to you?  And if not....why should we care about our behaviors that effect you?

  If you want to answer this and not treat this question rhetorically....I would be personally open for a legitimate and objective and philosophical discussion from my end?

If you want to apply the right remedy to the right thing here....you have to able to differentiate which of these two you are talking about and applying which treatment or remedy  to which thing here......that is.... if you are going to speak accurately yourself on this topic.

The only problem I see here in my own analogies is that (we) are not computers or simply a tangible object for your use.  If I am to follow through with my own train of thought and use the same analogy to you now in keeping with the computer example.......

At the end the line with you and the interface between all three of these components (you, your computer and the program).....your computer will not behave properly when you try and use it if one or more things are not compatible.  That includes YOU in this case. 

Try and argue your way out of being one of the components here?  You the user have your limitations too.  Your skill level and experience using the hardware of the computer, your skill and knowledge in how to get the most from the program and your skill, experience and knowledge in combining these skills to make use of what you have to work with will be dependent on how well your perform and your ability to carry out the required "tasks" involved ie: skills in operating the computer and software programs.

Saying this another way.....an expert skier can take a pair of old antiquated skis and still out perform...and maintain his/her own level of performance with new or old skis (it doesn't matter to an expert skier) at a level that far exceeds anything a novice can no matter what equipment they use. The only thing that will matter to an expert skier their own enjoyment level that they might experience with equipment that is more suited to their ability level.  In this analogy however....they can still ski and do everything they were able to do before but possibly only slightly less than if they had new ski's.  That's the only difference for an expert skier.

The novice skier won't be able to make use of the new or old equipment at all until they learn how to ski and not fall down and trip over their feet first and the equipment they use .......and especially high performance skis or newer equipment....it becomes irrelevant if their skills aren't up to par in the first place?  The new equipment cannot be fully utilized by them until they get the same skills as the expert skier and then apply them.

The same is true in the computer example.  The users skills have everything to do with knowing how to get the most our of the software and the hardware itself.  Are you an expert or a novice yourself  if this is true?

What I do agree with is the assessment that Portland62 made when she said " that diagnosing mental illness without the benefit of a psychological assessment (e.g., MMPI) is not comprehensive treatment; and, taking a pill (or pills) may temporarily quell the discomforts, but without behavioral modification, the dysfunctional behaviors are never addressed, thus continue."

That's a fair statement and I fully concur.  Why this is incomplete is because you are dealing with a human being not a computer.  The person who has ADHD needs to apply anything of this nature for it to work.  And to apply it.....they have to want to in the first place.

I think this is the question you should be asking yourself.  Does your spouse want to apply it and put in the effort or not?  If not.." the dysfunctional behaviors are never addressed, thus continue. "  The pills work and relieve suffering on our end.  I can tell you without question on my end....this works.  It did nothing to change my behavior though....I had to do that on my own and apply everything I've learned along with feeling better which makes it just that much easier to put the effort and work in to make the changes in the first place.  That's all the "pills" do for you.

Can you do this without the pills?  Yes.  Is it harder to do?....without question.  Does it increase the likely hood that I will try and put in the effort in the first place and get more results and fail less in the process?  You betcha!  Would I be more inclined to give up and not try anymore without it.  Almost guaranteed!

Would my wife be happier if I didn't take my pills because I am not performing as well if I did when I didn't take the pills?  Only she could answer that one but basing this question of the "behaviors" as they are being applied here.....the answer would be no.  But then again.....I'm applying it and making use of it to help with my behaviors and not just taking them to feel better.  If I didn't care however....I would take them anyway to get the benefit of feeling better whether I did anything to apply this to my behaviors nor not.  If I didn't care....I wouldn't apply it or make use of it.

 

J

Financial ruin and assuming I feel ways that I don't.

I feel so bad for everyone writing in. My life is better at the moment, my husband seems to be on a better path all of a sudden. I don't know how or what happened. When I read these forum comments all I do is shake my head because the replies to peoples comments always skip over the pain and abuse endured by the non ADHD partner. You cannot help someone who doesn't want it. I am sure all these spouses have made suggestions. We seem to be the only ones who see that we in fact are being badly hurt and abused in some for. I went to a divorce lawyer and found out where I stand and I really think that the choice to leave is a smart one if you do not want this life. Sorry but if they are not the person you married and they are not being loving and respectful.....leave. Better for you and kids if you have. You can't keep thinking it is going to get better. LIFE IS TOO SHORT!!

Yes, your finances will get ruined.

The only real solution to the situation is to get a divorce.  That separates your finances from his.  But, it's not that emotionally easy to do.  It requres honestly evaluating the situation and objectively determining if it's best to stay or leave.  One thing I didn't read in all of this is love.  It sounds more like a business deal gone bad.  Well, if that's how it is, then continuing with that line of thinking it should be dealt with as a business deal gone bad -- the contract needs to be terminated, and you need to cut your losses.  You don't have kids together, so that simplifies things a bit.
All the Best...
Jetpilot

Update over 2 1/2 years later

Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice.  A lot has happened over the last 2 1/2 years since I originally posted this.  When I wrote this, I was in the midst of depression due to some significant health issues as well as my husband's financial betrayal.  So I agree with one commenter who said that there wasn't much love in that post.  I did love my husband but I was also consumed with anger at him, depression about my health issues, and feeling like I was between a rock and a hard place.  We had good times and bad times.  This post was written in the midst of a bad time.

Well, fast forward a couple of months--I was travelling a lot for work and things seemed actually good between us at the time.  My husband went to his running club meeting during one of my business trips and a woman who was new to the club suggested that they hang out afterwards at a bar to discuss a race they were planning.  So he did and she kissed him. He said he was married,but continued to drink at the bar with her, and you guessed it, they had sex that night at her apartment while I was out of town.  I never knew and could never imagine my husband betraying me like this. Well, she started pursuing him after that night and he liked the attention he was getting, the high of a new relationship, and the escape from his problems.  All they did was go to her apartment, drink beer, and have sex.  I found out four months later.  To say I was devastated is an understatement.

A lot of therapy and marriage counseling later (for both of us), we are still together.  We've learned to communicate a lot better on issues--like the financial ones.  The hurt of the betrayal is still there and I'm not 100% committed to our marriage yet, but I'm taking it day by day, week by week.  I am partially responsible for our marital problems but he is 100% responsible for acting out and having an affair. 

I guess the lesson learned here is don't let your issues fester.  And have  appropriate boundaries with the opposite sex if you want to remain faithful.

I need advice

I'm not married or even engaged to my boyfriend yet and this may seem odd but we have been together for 7years.   I always knew he had ADD but I didn't really knew what that meant until now. Ever since I wanted to progress with our relationship he pulls away.   He always said he doesn't have money but never explained why.  He is 34 and lives with his parents.  When we met 7years ago it didn't matter but now I'm ready to take on responsibilities and grow up and he's hesitant.   I found out he's been in debt before and his parents bailed him out of it and now he's in it again.   I know he's depressed.  When we first met he used to be fun and outgoing.  He's still outgoing but he seems like a different person.  He tells me things are fine when they aren't and he has no motivation except for the things that interest him.  He works but he's not happy and I think he's still taking classes for his degree.   I used to get excited thinking about our future now I'm scared.  Scared that he either doesn't want it enough to try to be responsible or he doesn't want us enough.   I got a new job so now I'm three hours away from him.   I love him I just done know how to handle it.  His sister told me he's not taking medication anymore and she could tell he's not the same.   

Am I in over my head?  Maybe I just didn't know him or is it the ADD?

Get out while you can

If you read my post history here you'll see why. Don't think you can change him because you can't. I'm going on 25 years married to a man who has never held a job for more than a few months, who used to spend all our extra income on collectibles (until I finally cut off access to PayPal through my bank and now he can't do that anymore), who spends all day watching YouTube videos. He does do a lot around the house but he is absolutely disabled and I'm viewing him as such. I am not in love with him but I have a deep sense of duty to him and I'm making plans to make sure he's taken care of. Currently I'm nagging him about five times a day to get on disability through the VA; at his rate of speed I'll be lucky if he even fills out the application. The only reason I'm staying in this marriage is because I also have a special needs adult son, and my husband takes care of him while I'm at work (trying to get him named as caretaker so he can get paid for that). My husband is basically an adult child. ADD and ADHD are horrible, debilitating conditions and if I had to do it all over again I would not.

I have to second Redhead.

I have to second Redhead.  Run and get out before things get complicated and mixed up legally.

 

my soon to be ex is very capable and quite talented, but has zero self control and is in complete denial about his own addictions.  He is fully aware of all his issues and is open about owning them... However he is too lazy and doesn't care enough about me his wife or our marriage and our home and everything we have built enough to even read a single chapter in a book to get help.  Let that sink in.  Because I would be money that if you continue, you will be in the same boat as so many of us.  I don't know you but I already know you deserve more than what you have gotten, and it can almost guarantee that what you have already gotten is the BEST you will ever get with him.

 

RUN...  Hard and fast and don't look back.  Heal the damage already done and make a better life for your future.

Yes Get Out of The Relationship Now While You Can!

I agree with Redhead. Save yourself A LOT of heartache and get out before you get attached more than you already are! I'm 5 years "in" and I was a financially responsible person never paid bills late and due to his impulsive hyper spending, I am financially ruined for years to come. He doesn't work, can't work, hasn't worked our whole relationship. Although when I met him, he told me stories about jobs he had. He had excuses why his credit was bad and how he needed just a little help to get " back on track" in his life. The thing is...now I know he was NEVER on track in the first place. 

feelingletdown's picture

GET OUT is RIGHT! Better SAFE than SORRY.

Goldie you are totally right!

I've always been super responsible with money, too, and should have known that my hubby's 'little bill problem' back home wasn't a 'one time thing' as he tried to imply that it was.  He kept trying to tell me the business he'd been running for the past 20 years had done very well; that his only trouble was timing out his bill payments correctly and that he wasn't getting paid on time, etc.  Because I am very patient, I gave him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning.  I wish I hadn't.

We're looking at 16 years gone by and I can barely stand to look at him.   We are down to our last couple hundred dollars in the bank, I've blown through what little inheritance I received a few years ago just paying bills, and hubby has been employed maybe a total of 5 years in that time - with PLENTY of OFF TIME in between low paying jobs.  Instead of cutting back on my work, I had to ADD HOURS to pay for all his extras, as well as do all the additional crap hubby needed for his business such as accounting, secretarial, driving him to job inquiries, and helping him DO the jobs on my nights & weekends off.  He does help out around the house, but that wasn't what I was looking for in a partner.  I was hoping to cut back on my high stress job, and I'd have somebody to go to movies with and out to eat.  I wasn't asking for a lot, mind you.   Because of his ADHD he doesn't LIKE going to movies, and he's extremely fussy about what he eats so we also can't go anywhere GOOD to eat (if we had the money, mind you).  We have to go places they serve plain food so he'll have something he likes on the menu.  A small thing, but when you're not asking for much in the first place it seems bigger.

I appreciate having somebody who loves me, but I didn't sign on to be his MOTHER and that seems exactly the job I've been doing now for 16 years and we're almost broke & I hate him because of it.  Whenever I tell him we need X amount of money to pay the bills, all I hear is "I'm doing the best I can".  NOT ENOUGH DUMMY.  So run, girl, run away from the problem before you make it yours for good.  

Cut and Run

For all of us trying to survive.... And make things better with our ADD spouses... We see someone who hasn't committed and the overwhelming advice is cut and run! Love it.  

feelingletdown's picture

Your reply was spot on.

Hey girl, just wanted to concur with your advice.  I've been unhappily married to an ADHD/dyslexic for 16 years and at the END OF MY ROPE.  I'm not a huge fan of marriage in the first place, but hubby was in a different country and having a fit to be with me.  I kept telling him I was NOT going to let the GOVERNMENT tell me when to get married, but finally broke down and filed all the paperwork.  I should have realized the extent of his disability as soon as he started in making terrible decisions, which was from the very beginning.  He came over on a STRICT fiancee visa, which meant he would NOT be able to travel outside the country until after we got married and had his passport altered.  His ex wife called furious and *WHAM* back he went like a rocket!  He didn't care that I'd just spent 6 months filling out paperwork, doing all the filing, documentation, organizing, etc; which was now totally out the window.  He'd 'forgotten' to tell his 2 grown children he was MOVING TO ANOTHER COUNTRY . . . I really didn't even want to have him come back here to get married after that snafu, but since he'd sold everything back in his home country I felt obligated.

     I'm an incredibly patient and understanding human being.  In the beginning I understood why he was not able to find decent employment - not that he needed to learn another language or anything but moving to another country has got to be challenging.  I knew he had ADHD/dyslexia but am open minded enough to know that being such does not indicate measure of intelligence.  My fatal flaw, however, was in NOT factoring in the possibility that it didn't preclude him simply being STUPID, which is now obviously the case.  I filled out HUNDREDS of job applications & resumes - nothing helped.  He decided to start up the (failing) business he'd had going back home - so whatever money he'd brought with him into the country was very quickly spent on thousands of dollars worth of tools & equipment, advertising, etc.   Not only could he NOT find many jobs, the few jobs he DID manage to wrangle didn't pay much, he ALWAYS needed to hire extra helpers, and more often than not, he got sued and we ended up repaying what little we'd gotten paid in the first place!  Then the weather was constantly too cold for him to work, so he'd sit around the house drinking coffee by the gallons, watching "Jerry Springer", and making THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of phone calls - many of them long distance.  I'd be at work and he'd call me there several times a day just to 'check in' and tell me he loved me.  My friends would always say to me "Doesn't he have ANYTHING else to do?" and I'd sadly shake my head no.

Another thing which confused me then and still continues to haunt me, is that he ADORES me.  My whole life nobody really loved or cared whether I was alive or dead, and at long last I have somebody who loves, cherishes, and wants the best for me in every way.  I feel very grateful for this, and conflicted because of the fact that I can't stand his stupidity.   He has no idea that my nickname for him is "stupid idiot".   So every day I struggle with trying to be loyal to him but feeling totally betrayed that my husband is so incredibly STUPID he can't get a job to save his marriage.  I'm happier alone 99% of the time anyhow, but if I ever do separate from him, I'm sure he'd be bankrupt and trying to live with me again in a few months because he's clueless.  

He sees me as his mother, best friend, lover, companion, everything.  I see him as a leech.  I feel like a terrible person.  So I will concur with you in that, if I had to do it all over again, I'd save myself the heartache and SKIP THE PROBLEMS if you know about them ahead of time.  

Trust your intuitions

In 7 years, he's remained with his parents, doesnt incline to make the moves necessary for the two of you to live together, and hasnt finished his schooling.  

I wish it werent so, but you can tell a lot about a person's responsibility to other people by seeing how they handle money.  That at his advanced age, he got himself into debt, hi s parents paid it, then he got himself into debt again, while his mother and father continued to pay for his food and shelter bodes badly for you, should you marry or cohabit.   

It's hard

He knows he's hurting me and I think a lot of it is depression.  I think his parents don't help by not pushing him.   He told me that he feels stuck and he's sad that he keeps disappointing me.   I can't make him do anything I get that.   I told him he needs to take responsibility for his actions.  I asked him why he feels stuck and he says it's because of the money.   Then I said what if you figured out that what then.  He said he can't even see passed tomorrow because he feels lost.   I told him he needs to talk to someone.  If he can't talk to me or his family he needs to talk to someone.  I told him this is hurting me and I can't keep doing this.   I'm always sad because I don't see a future anymore with us.   Part of me knows I needs to step back and take a break or break up with him.   Another part of me know the potential he has and it sucks he doesn't see it.  When he said he hated disappointed me I told him he has to start doing this for himself and not me.   I know he works out and goes to work (he has two jobs). Jus to keep busy but it seems like he has no direction or focus on anything.   He doesn't seem motivated and that's what kills me bc I guess I always thought I'd motivate him to do better.  I know I have but I'm tired.   I hate making him feel like he wasn't enough.  He is and could be, but this realization that his ADD can't affect him more just scares me.

My husband knows he has been

My husband knows he has been hurting me - and will not lift a finger to stop.  He uses his past and everything going on as an excuse to contrinue to hurt me.  But in HIS mind its OK since he doesnt love me anyway. 

 

Today  - I feel like I dont even exist to him-  its like I never did.  I found some old texts from him to me last night - and I wonder who the hell wrote them... it could not have been this person... this person who has treated me with such disdain, such disrespect, such... apathy... not even hate.. he just doesnt care enough to do anything more than be civil.

 

I hate the situation I am in.  I hate it with a passion.  I cant believe I gave up so  much of my life for someone who didnt even care.  Doesnt even notice, and will put so much in front of me no matter what I do.  I am stripped bare to the bones, and he doesnt even care.  He will say he does - but he doesnt.  not truly... this is a man who had to be told to give his wife a hug when her mother was dying... by his own mother....  And that says everything.

Husband is financially ruining me

I cannot describe how depressing it is to read *my story* here, all the way through, except mine has lasted more than 35 years and divorce and remarriage and now at age 67 to see that NOTHING HAS CHANGED. Only when it suits *him.*

Not only is my financial life ruined, I have been bankrupt and I owe it all to him. And to my own stupidity for believing that surely, when he could see what he was doing to "us" he would stop. But NO. In the end, there wasn't any "us." There was only ME as the debts were all in my name. And none of the benefits. No social security payments in my name, no savings, nothing. But then magically, there appeared a "retirement account" he denied having all those years in HIS name that came to light when other people pressed me again and again saying they were SURE he had some kind of savings, given he had worked at a very good job with excellent benefits.

 

He has always kept a job, any kind of job, and given heart and soul to IT while giving nothing to me.

 

I, like another person posting here, have never had anyone alive anymore who cared if I "lived or died." At least here I had a "roof over my head and food on the table," even though it might not have been what I wanted and it was just a tiny room full of boxes and storage as if I was living in a store room. But I had somewhere to go when my back went out and *I* was bankrupt with nowhere to go. Any "we" went out the window at that point and "he" decided he would "give me a room and food but that was it." I could barely walk for three years and it was like being in prison.

 

When I finally got better (by the grace of God) and started earning money again, it all of a sudden became "we" again and I fell for it all over again. Why I didn't learn then I will never know. But I didn't. Now, on my third go-round with him, and having a small inheritance, he has gone after me with the viciousness and attentiveness and fortitude of a hunter and the hunted, telling me "how much I owe him" and making up budgets that leave me paying for every single thing because "he has to pay his debts."

 

I actually suggested that he file for bankruptcy the way he made sure I did, and he hit the ceiling! Oh, no, he wasn't going to do that! I guess it was only good enough for me.

 

I make myself sick because I stayed all these years, no matter how many times I have left, I have always come back. After the violent abusive family I grew up in, I can see that I am a raging codependent that was well-trained to believe I had no value other than paying bills and I deserved nothing in return. He took up where my parents left off. I'm like a person who has battered woman syndrome, who foolishly thought I was "ahead of the game" because he never laid a physical hand on me. He has battered me and ground me into dust all these years no matter what I've done or how much I have accomplished. I've been his little hamser on a wheel doing all the dirty work, taking all the responsiblity, and being "grateful" that "someone wants me" as my own family said they "never thought I would ever get married, as who would want to marry me?" My sisters said this on my own wedding day, while I was getting dressed for the ceremony!

 

I have had a world of hurt and my relationship with him is a continuation and reflection of this. I do not believe any longer that "God wants us to make our marriage work." No. I believe that God wants us to take care of ourselves and love ourselves, which we can't do when the one we live with doesn't love us at all, and is only using us for what they can get out of the relationship and gives practically nothing in return.

 

Yes, he cooks and runs errands and does a lot of the housework now that I'm disabled from stress and chronic fatigue, but all these years have put me under and almost in my grave. It's now up to ME to make the changes I need to survive. I chose to stay and I can choose to leave, no matter how much I "believe" that no one will ever love me, and I deserve nothing, as that is exactly what has been shown to me all my life.

 

I can begin to give to myself - just a little bit in return - making changes on a daily basis, sticking up for myself, checking his words against his actions and not believing his excuses and lies.

 

It begins and ends with me. I have tried EVERYTHING and NOTHING has worked, and nothing ever will, because he does not want it to change. Why should he? He has a free ride doing everything he wants and nothing that I want. It's passive-aggressive, aspergers, and ADD/ADHA all rolled into one.

And I deserve better. I deserve at least at minimum half of what I have done for him for 35 or more years. At least half. That's my contention and that is my demand and as I am taking care of myself financially, I am setting up for a life that will be secure financially as I am 67 years old and I have no time left to try and make up for his irresponsible and reckless handlling of money and waiting for him to make good on promises he had no intention of ever keeping.

Yes, he's very bad at these things although like Jekyll and Hyde, he's "wonderful" on a daily basis. That was always the trick that kept me hooked, but now I know it was all an act. A sham, just like what I beleived our life to be. Our life was a lie seen only through my own eyes, focused on a nebulous future that was never going to come to pass, and it has taken me all these years and my own illness for the past ten years to see that he just doesn't care about anyone but himself. And that's the beginning and the end of this story.

 

I'm not even mad at him anymore. I'm just sick and sorry that I was such a patsy at home, when I used to be such a good business person "out in the world." But he's driven that out of me too. I let employees steal from me because I had been so well trained to keep my mouth shut to "keep the peace." When I saw that happening, my own care-givers stealing from me and I knew it and said nothing, I knew I was in real trouble. After all, he has been my main care-giver, and if he did it and it was alright, why not the rest of them too?

 

Anything to "keep the peace" while I have lain dying and knowing it was him all along.

 

I pray that God will save me and release me from this self-made prison of my own sad belief that I am worth NOTHING, all because I was raised to believe this was so. It's not true and it never was and all I have to do is prove it to myself. Stand up for myself and move myself into a positive environment. As sick as I am, one room is good enough for me. I don't need much and I can pay cash for myself with the very small inheritance I have. All I have to do is not let him get his hands on it, which is what he's been planning and trying to do for the whole entire last year. This time I won't happen. I will see to it and I will learn to protect myself, since there is no one else out there to do it for me. I will take care of myself and I thank God that I have this one last chance to "do right by me." Like other people have said here: If you have a chance, RUN AND DON'T LOOK BACK! RUN!

 

Dear God please show me The Way.