My wife and I have been together for 5 years (Married 1.5). I was diagnosed with ADHD just after we were married. The diagnosis explained a lot of the problems we were having and some of my feelings for many years. Fast forward to now and we are still having problems. While I am working on myself (albeit slow progress), I don't feel like she wants to take any ownership about her role in our dynamics. (I do plenty of this to the point where I am always feeling like the "identified patient.")
One recurrent theme in our relationship is that my wife (non-ADHD) refuses to acknowledge how she also contributes to our parent-child dynamics, fighting, arguments, etc. I feel like am expressing how I feel intense criticism and overexplaining (e.g., "let me say it a different way so you get it this time"), but she refuses to acknowledge that she bears any responsibility for this dynamic in our partnership.
Most importantly, I am left so frustrated and hurt because she won't acknowledge the struggles and the associated feelings that I have (struggling to stay on top of things, feeling shame and guilt about my symptoms and the impact on her, hurt by her criticism, etc.). I just get more criticism or blame. I don't need her to fix my feelings, I just want her to hear and understand how challenging it is for me without it turning to criticism and blame (e.g., empathy).
This is getting to a boiling point for me where I am now intentionally stonewalling her until she acknowledges my feelings and what I am going through myself. I am not proud of this, but other attempts just don't seem to be working.
Does anyone else struggle with this in their relationship? Advice, thoughts, support?
Thanks!
Slow progress
Submitted by adhd32 on
You say you are working on yourself and making slow progress. What specifically are you doing? Are you seeing a specialist who is prescribing medication and working with you on strategies to help you improve your performance? If so,are you implementing the suggestions? Are you contributing to household tasks consistently? Are you playing video games or doing some other mindless activity instead of doing the laundry or picking up the kids? It is very difficult for the NON spouse to be forgiving when all the repeatedly promised contributions have not materialized.
Your wife is not blameless in the dynamic she is reacting to unmet expectations. If she has to over explain things she is probably frustrated that after the first few times chores/errands were discussed there would be some action from you. When things were not taken care of after several discussions and she had to pick up the slack, she became frustrated. As time passed and you became unreliable, she became like a parent with a man child who stonewalls because his feelings are hurt. Instead of having a 50/50 partner who shares the burden she feels responsible for the majority of it. To a non spouse, actions speak louder than words. Most non spouses view repeated inaction as an insult, especially when ADD spouse is doing nothing to help themselves be a more involved partner. All the love and support cannot help someone who does not seek professional help.
I acknowledged my H's feelings, stopped mothering him, and stayed non-reactive. Guess what? He just wanted it his way. Nothing changed. He remained untreated. He didn't step up and contribute. He didn't get involved with the family leaving me to take care of the child rearing tasks. He didn't step up when circumstances would motivate someone to, such as the death of my parents or my own surgery. He acted like emergencies with the kids were an intrusion into his life. Now the kids are grown and they and I enjoy good relationships while H pouts that I turned them against him. H never imagines that all that time I spent involved in their young lives (doing boring things as he says) was the foundation for our now warm adult relationships. He continues to think of himself first: only his wants and needs. He never offers help or assistance or acknowledgment but expects it from others. He has chosen himself. He uses ADD an excuse to immerse himself in what ever the distraction of the minute is.
What are your expectations? If your wife acknowledges her role and stops parenting you, will you step up and make an effort to be more involved? Or, are you looking for her to leave you alone so you can be your own boss and live your life your way without having to consider her needs?
Thanks.
Submitted by BrandonADHD on
Hi ADHD32,
Thanks for writing back. I am working on myself, but I lost my job and financially could no longer support an ADHD therapist. While I am seeing a CBT therapist because he is on my insurance, he is not an ADHD specialist.
I have tried to implement different strategies and the sheer number of strategies I can employ is overwhelming sometimes. I get stuck myself and have no doubt failed. On top of which, when a symptom causes a reaction from her, she is highly reactive, which triggers my own anger/frustration because of my childhood/upbringing (my parents were very reactive or completely unreactive growing up; some having to do with their personalities, some having to do with my ADHD now that I reflect on it). I know I hurt her, but I also feel so hurt, not just because she triggers me, but because she refuses to understand how detrimental that is to me.
--Brandon
You are ironically asking for
Submitted by vabeachgal on
You are ironically asking for the same thing that many non-ADHD partners ask for in vain - acknowledgement of their pain, hurt and frustration. ADHD is rough for both parties. I remember how I felt 5 years in. I was angry, resentful, exhausted, depleted and depressed. I was carrying a very, very unfair household burden. All of the above manifested itself in blame and criticism. Which in turn made me feel worse because the behavior didn't reflect who I felt I was inside.
BTW, if you lost your job she is probably also experiencing fear right now. Fear is not too compatible with empathy. Are you asking for empathy right now and not acknowledging her fear?
Instead of stonewalling, you might try initiating. Have you, in all honesty, provided her with a true and self aware acknowledgment of the difficulties and frustrations she has faced? You might try acknowledging her first, if you haven't already.
Five years in I didn't have anything left to give anyone. She is processing a lot of things also. See, this is a journey she didn't ask to take and now, if she's like I was, she might be angry that now she has to sort through it all without adequate support. An ADHD diagnosis did not come as a breath of fresh air to me. I was happy to be able to identify the problem and things made sense, but the more I read and learned the more I said "holy shit." She may need to process how this changes her life and her thoughts on what normal is and will be.
You said that you are making slow progress. She cannot see inside your head to see how hard you're working. She can only see what's happening via actions (and has probably learned as I did that words don't mean much). You can't see in her head either. Working on anger, acceptance and forgiveness takes hard work and a deep dive. Again, ironic because you are upset about her lack of progress while you also say you're making slow progress. You want her to be over this in a year and a half but self admittedly have a long way to go. Maybe it will take more than a year and a half just like it's taking you longer than that.
I can't see how stonewalling communication, affection or assistance will help you. It will be viewed as more incompetence and, um, stonewalling.
Somewhere in the forum, Melissa Orlov discusses tackling one thing at a time. Have her choose one thing for you to work on and be consistent with it and acknowledge her. See where that takes you.
Here's a recent example of how a play for empathy DOESN'T work.
I found a notice of judgment attached to our front door. My H hadn't paid our homeowner's association fees for over 2 years. It was his responsibility. It meant that he lied and hid the facts and actual correspondence for two years (since it would come addressed to both of us)... My job requires an annual background check. Bad. If I never knew about it (I happened to get the mail that day otherwise I doubt he would ever have disclosed it) and did not disclose it to my employer, it is NOT GOOD. Plus, it is embarrassing as hell. Second, we need to sell our house and get a smaller place. Not good on the record.... Bottom line, we are dealing with a concrete, specific problem. When my husband started in on the "you don't understand" b.s.and wanting me to feel his feelings, I called him on it. I called him on expecting me NOT to be angry about the situation. I treated it like what it was, a distraction and a deflection. I treated it as what it was - something I wouldn't tolerate in anyone over 10 years of age. Now, an apology, an acceptance of responsibility and a plan of action for the future would have made me receptive to hearing about how he felt. I wasn't even explosively angry but I clearly got the message that my H didn't care for me expressing anything negative about it. It would also have gone a long way if he had acknowledged how it made me feel instead of directing attention to himself because he was invalidating my experience once again. It wasn't "no big deal" to me. Your wife may not be devoid of empathy and concern for you, but there is something to be said for how the request is made (and I have no idea based on your post.)
"This is getting to a boiling
Submitted by ArtGamer on
"This is getting to a boiling point for me where I am now intentionally stonewalling her until she acknowledges my feelings and what I am going through myself. I am not proud of this, but other attempts just don't seem to be working."
Let's say she acknowledges your feelings. What then? Will that resolve anything?
Because they can support us emotionally, sometimes we all forget that our spouses are not and cannot be our therapists and counselors. Sure, they can help us with a circumstantial problem that lasts a few days or weeks but the bigger, fundamental stuff requires a professional. We cannot reasonably expect a spouse to heal or cure our emotional troubles any more than we can expect them to set and cast a broken leg.
Even if your spouse was a professional therapist, she can't effectively be both your therapist and your spouse. Those 2 things must remain independent of one another, they are not compatible.
Resolving my feelings
Submitted by BrandonADHD on
Hi ArtGamer,
I don't expect it to resolve anything in the short-term. We have much work to do. I simply hope that she is open to hearing what I struggle with, which is about respect for me. I actually don't want her to be my therapist; she actually tries to fill that role and I resent her for that. Attempts at asking her to stop are met with more criticism and blame.
R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
Submitted by jennalemone on
Brandon. You seem to be asking for your wife to respect you. It seems to boil down to that one thing....everything you are saying points to that. RESPECT. Please do this for us and for yourself. Make a list: Who do you respect and why? Can you name 3 people, or qualities, that you respect? If you know what you want (respect?) then you can figure out how to get what you want. If you do this, I will respond with my own list.
Validation
Submitted by ArtGamer on
Thank you for clarifying. That you didn't respond defensively to my question and others is a very good sign about where you are with this.
When people don't listen to us, that definitely sends a message of disrespect. It has nothing to do with ADHD, it is one of the fundamental concepts of human interaction.
It is a reasonable expectation for your spouse to listen to you. However, regardless of ADHD we must all be careful to structure these discussions to prevent "flooding" and "dumping." The level of tolerance for these discussions in your relationship is something that you have to figure out.
I have personally found that in stressful times I have to be very disciplined and mentally limit the time I spend talking about anything stressful or negative, not just to my spouse but to everyone. When our friends and family get overloaded, their reactions can make us feel far worse than when a conversation started. I limit myself to no more than a few minutes at most talking about stressful or negative personal issues, at that is even after "feeling out" whether the person I'm talking to is in a good enough place themselves to listen. No matter how difficult it might be, I try to frame my interactions with positive discussion, starting with something positive and ending with something positive. That way the other person doesn't get overwhelmed at the start or walk away at the end feeling our interaction was a waste of their time.
And there are tons of times I simply can't tell people what's on my mind. There are people that simply don't have any tolerance for emotional discussion. There is no one to listen to me, to help me work through what is on my mind. It has nothing to do with ADHD or ADHD relationships, it is just the way people are.
That's why I keep a personal journal. It helps me objectify my problems and emotions, good and bad. It validates what I am feeling by writing it, and sometimes it even helps me understand when my feelings are unjustified. This journal has allowed me to gain far greater understanding and self-awareness. Perhaps something like that can help you as well.
Hi ArtGamer,
Submitted by BrandonADHD on
Hi ArtGamer,
Thank you for support and acknowledgment of my progress. You hit on something very important for me in addition to issues with my wife.
I struggle to identify and manage my feelings and emotions. I end up not communicating well or simply not communicating at all...because I am on to the next task, feeling or emotion so quickly. I nearly forget I had that feeling until the next time I feel it (in the case of negative emotions, it builds in a not so good manner). It is a vicious cycle of feeling, forgetting, feeling, forgetting, exploding. While my "flooding" and "dumping" has gotten better, I still have ways to go.
Your journaling intrigues me because I have attempted and failed numerous times to this. I usually overanalyze situations, focus only on the negative (e.g., wallow in my feelings vs. ID how to deal with them), or simply don't have a way to validate what I am thinking/feeling (e.g., how do I check myself if there is no one to bounce this stuff off of? I can't rely on my therapist forever and we only have 45 min sessions.)
Identifying and managing feels is definitely an Achilles heal I would like to address in perhaps alternative ways. Any thoughts from you or the group on your best practices as well as pros/cons of journaling (or other alternative technique) would be much appreciated! I am gaining a lot from the back and forth already.
--Brandon
Journals
Submitted by ArtGamer on
Step one is to keep a daily journal. Write about the good times, not just about the bad.
The results are rarely immediate, especially at first, so keeping a journal can definitely feel pointless. But it isn't. What happens is that you find yourself feeling, being in a situation that you've been in before. It may not be clear at first, but eventually you will be sure that this is something you have experienced. Then you can go back, search for those times that are similar, and really start to think about why this is happening.
Here's a real example from my life and how my journal helped me greatly.
My cat suffered horribly from a saddle thrombus last fall, a type of blood clot. It was a horrible experience to see my friend suffer so badly, then I had to euthanize and bury her. She went fairly young for a cat, only 9 years old, basically only middle aged in cat years.
During my bereavement, I searched for ways to memorialize my lost friend and grieve. I made a slideshow so I could better focus some of those great times we had together and not just that trauma of her last day. I also went through my journal entries to search for details of her life and our life together, happily remembering details I had forgotten and the great times we had.
But in my search for details about my dead cat, I didn't expect to find other details about myself and my relationship with my family. (Edit: By family, I mean people not living in my household, I mean those other people I'm related to.) The entire time this cat was alive, for that entire 9 years, I had been having the same problems, discussions, arguments, and stresses. I didn't realize before that I had made no progress with my family in the entire 9 years. I read details about all of the things I tried, all the support I gave them, how upset they usually made me, and I realized that nothing ever changed.
And I calculated how much time that was. I spent an average of 4 hours on the phone each week struggling with family, fruitlessly trying to improve our relationships. Those 4 hours were at the expense of other things in my life. We only have 24 hours a day, there isn't any way to get 25 hours, so if I spend 2 hours on the phone wth someone that always gets me upset, I have not only lost that 2 hours but the quality of my remaining 22 hours is diminished as I recover from the unpleasant experience.
But think about this. I averaged 4 hours a week talking to people that treat me badly. For that entire cat's life. That was 4 hours I could have spent productively, positively, even playing with that cat in her short 9 years. How much more time could I have had with my friend had I not wasted it with people that don't appreciate me? My cat appreciated me, even if I had spent just one of those 4 hours a week playing or hanging out with her, we both would have had a better life.
Don't get me wrong, my cat didn't have a bad life. I spoiled her. She had toys, furniture, her own tablet, she even watched videos of birds and animals projected onto a wall. But we could have both had an even better life had I realized sooner how disruptive and pointless some of my relationships were. I never would have learned these things if I didn't have a journal.
So I vowed to learn this lesson that eluded me before and apply it to my life. I stopped talking regularly to some of my family. This couldn't fix the past, but it definitely improved my present and my future. And the benefits have been amazing. I am a happier, far more positive person because I don't waste that on people who suck me dry emotionally. And it isn't just me, everyone else around me no longer has to deal with the impact my family caused. Just that simple thing improved my life and the life of those around me. And my new cat doesn't hide when the phone rings.
This is just one of many examples. Yes, a journal can definitely help, and it can help in ways that you can't ever predict. A journal often doesn't immediately resolve problems, but better late than never, right?
I completely understand your
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I completely understand your need to have your feelings validated. I often find myself explaining a situation to my husband and then I say, "Do you get that? Do you see why that's hurtful to me?" I asking those questions because I want to have my feelings validated. Thankfully, he almost always says, "Yes, I see how that hurt you."
However, it wasn't always that way. I am the non ADHD wife. My husband has ADHD. For 21 years his ADHD was untreated and we were deadlocked in a very angry game of "This is all your fault!" "No, it's all YOUR fault!!!!!!" It wasn't until we learned about ADHD and my husband finally admitted that he hadn't treated me or our marriage as he should have that things started to improve. As I started to see him try to treat me differently, I began to have compassion and empathy for his struggles. In the beginning, I saw myself as the only victim of ADHD. Gradually, I began to realize that he was also a victim of ADHD. I'm still reluctant to take responsibility for the problems in our marriage. I blame it on ADHD, rather than blaming my husband. I take responsibility for my anger and I try to handle my anger differently. It didn't happen overnight. It took time and we still have struggles. Nothing is perfect.
Glad to hear
Submitted by BrandonADHD on
HI Hopeful Heart.
I am glad you have been able to get to the place you have with your husband. I also hear how much of a struggle it was for you two. I am not gonna lie, I struggle with validating her feelings when I am flustered or off in lala land. At least now I understand what it means to validate feelings, and I want it too!
One of my worries is that our relationship takes two and her unwillingness to hear me as well is going to completely undue us. I can work on myself, but I don't want to lose the relationship, which I think takes two people.
Hey Brandon.....About What You're Asking For
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm a guy with ADHD and I understand what you want and how you are trying to get it. That's kind of the bottom line here? How? Acknowledging and validating is all good and fine as long as you know how to do that for yourself first. If you don't know how to do that for yourself, it makes it hard to do that with anyone else? Makes sense doesn't it? And I won't belabor how you were trying to do it, but in respect to the person on the other side of that particular "method", I can tell you what it feels like on the other end of that and it doesn't feel very good which is not something you yourself have not experienced so you have to consider the effect that has on another person? What I caught in the things you said was the word "intention" or intentionally withholding or intentionally stonewalling which all that means is, you are aware of what you are doing? That's all intention is whether you realise it or not? You are simply aware of what you are doing? There are a number of things on the ADHD symptoms list, that do not qualify here for example....losing your focus or forgetting things short term sometimes there is less control of and with no awareness on your part. Those are true ADHD symptoms you don't have much of a say in sometimes that go outside of your awareness which is why they are so problematic. What you're talking about, does not qualify here at all? You have a choice when you're aware of it, and making the wrong one is what this boils down to even if you can't see why it is the wrong one? I'll try and tell you why so you can understand the difference here?
What may you not be considering though, that with the intention to get what you want, you are intentionally doing something else to your wife too? Basically, you want something you're not getting so you are attempting to get it from her by manipulating the situation instead of doing it in a straight forward open approach that anyone can see or hear? If you are not making that information available out in the open....then how can anyone know what it is you want? And even if you say it out loud...that still doesn't mean the other person knows how to give it too you either? You are assuming way too much, and operating under the table so to speak. It's not a very open or honest way of trying to communicate and what it boils down to is emotional blackmail. I know that is probably not your intention...but that is the effect it has on the other person when ever you try and do it that way? They feel cohersed and manulated due to your own inability in not knowing exactly how to do it? I've been there and still am there plenty of times so not knowing how to do something isn't a crime. Everyone is in the same boat there but when it comes down to it....some methods are better than others and the one you are describing has those negative consesquences for the other person? Namely, it's not a very honest and forth right way to communicate and it leaves a lot to be desired on the receiving end? Leaving " a lot to be desired" means....something is missing? And on her end, if her cup is as empty as your's in that respect...you are both trying to draw from the same empty well that doesn't have anything in it to begin with? That's what I mean when I say just because you tell someone this is what you want, doesn't mean they have it do give you in the first place? That assuming they do, is where this goes wrong I think? Better to add something back into her cup, then trying to get what you want from and empty one? She may not be intentially not giving you what you want...but your intentionally not putting anything into her cup and using her own emotions or guilt, or shame as a tool to use for you to attempt to get what you want instead? Is that any way to get validation or acknowledgement? Put a gun to someone's head and "make them do it" at a cost to them if they don't? See what I mean? That's emotional blackmail and while you may get something from it....the other person is not going to be very happy about it? With an exclamation mark to be sure. Stonewalling and clamming up....gives the other person nothing? And nothing from nothing is still nothing at the end of the day? It's not what you want after all and it's not what she wants either? Who wants a gift or something given to them...by prescribing it exactly to the last infinite detail, hand them the money, and then say "now go out there and buy it for me?" You could hire the neighbor kid to go run that errand for you? Where's the thought and the meaning of that gift...if your telling the other person to give it to me and then hand them the means to go run that errand for you? At the end, you get exactly what you wanted, and they just got in the car, drove to the store, pulled out a shopping list, put it in the basket, check out, drive home and hand it to you? What kind of gift is that? It's not. That's the point? Did you get any validation or acknowledgement from that? Or anything other than the thing they bought you at the store? For that matter, if you were to thank them for anything, what would you be thanking them for? Running an errand for you? Pretty much. You'd be better off in intentionally ...not doing that and doing just the opposite even if you don't know how or are really bad at doing it that way instead? But at least, doing a really shitty job at putting something into her cup and not stonewalling and putting in and not withholding...is a whole lot better than trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip and getting nothing but an errand boy in order to get you what you need? No matter how bad you are and how inept you are at doing the opposite...there is no crime like I said in not knowing how and not being very good at doing it.....we are all in the same boat there so join the club on that one. The only way to learn how to do it is just by doing it. And nobody does it very well, especially when you don't know how to begin with? You'll get what you want, once you give it in return? It's just the way it works but saying...emotional black mail...does not work at all simply put. Anything you do is better than that even if your horrible at doing it. Take my word on it, in this much I know what I'm talking about. You got to give before you get, that's just the way it is and there is no way around it, so you might as well accept it and just do it instead. It's the thought that counts anyway when giving a gift after all.
J
Journaling
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I've found that journaling helps.
I don't journal with a pen an notebook. I journal online, using my email. After I'm though with that day's entry, I send an email to myself, and store it in a folder in my email account. It is faster for me to do it this way, and I can type faster than I can write. Sometimes I just need to vent, and I use my online journal. I am seeing a counselor every other week, and it helps me to journal, especially during the weeks I don't see her.