I just realized that as I'm working my 2 jobs and taking overtime on top of that and barely making the rent and he's not working and just sitting there watching Law and Order or Star Trek, that our daughter needs to be registered for school. School starts Monday. He has said he's "very motivated" to get her into school (you know it's because he can get rid of her most of the day so no distractions from TV watching). He says he will drive her every day. That's the extent of his "motivation."
He has not done anything to actually get her into school. I have been homeschooling her the past year. Now he wants her in school but has not even looked up ANYTHING even though he has my second computer with access. All these months I've been mentioning things and he's ignored them because hey, I will do them, right?
No. I won't I won't do it at all. I am done with him sitting there. He can figure it out. He's 43 years old. He should NOT need any help from me. I'm busy most of the day with all these jobs to keep a roof over his head and feeding him like he's my son.
I don't think I should feel at all guilty for pushing this man to move and DO SOMETHING. It always falls on the woman as if we gave birth to our husbands or as if they're too stupid to live. We always have to take care of the kids AND them.
He probably will want to get "rid" of her, but .....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
but he probably won't actually register her until Monday.
In his mind, nothing really happens the first day of school so it's no big deal if she's late to the classroom while he gets her enrolled.
Why haven't you kicked him out? With the money you'll save not supporting him, you'll be able to afford care for your daughter.
Why do you keep supporting him?
Hi LyraHeartstrings.....
Submitted by c ur self on
I feel for you, and the situation you're in....
(It always falls on the woman as if we gave birth to our husbands or as if they're too stupid to live. We always have to take care of the kids AND them.) This comment is really wrong, and a bit offensive.... It's based on your life, and the abuse and pain you're enduring. But it doesn't describe most marriages...It doesn't fall on the wife of husbands who live responsibly in life...Most do, and many are dealing with a wife, that lives in a similar mind as your husbands....
Blessings....
C
c ur self is right.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Those of us who are married to mentally-unhealthy men are the exception, not the rule. Most men do not behave this way. Most men do not need or want to be "mothered". Most men want to earn a good living, support their families, support their wives, etc.
You have to decide where you're going to draw the line. If he can't or won't take care of himself and be a fair contributor to the marriage (either by bringing home a fair paycheck or doing the full "stay at home parent" responsibilities in an organized fashion), then kick his ass to the curb. Why wouldn't you do that?
I don't understand why women who are bringing in most or nearly all of the income, while also managing many or the household and child related chores, are supporting these men who won't work, or who won't work most of the time. I especially don't understand this when the relationships aren't that old.
Well my father was the same
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
Well my father was the same way, he used to work then when I was born he quit and didn't go back and made my mother even go pick up his check for him. He sat around watching Star Trek and listening to classical music and eventually mom got him arrested for molesting my sister and we discovered his mountain of porn. So that's where my education money went.
He died at 45 of a blood clot because he didn't go to the doctor when his leg was hurting so bad he would barely walk.
My niece's ex husband wanted a mommy, too. And when they divorced guess where he went? Right, back to his mommy's house. He too played video games constantly.
Another girl I knew had a stroke giving birth and her boyfriend say around playing video games.
There aren't too many examples of men in my life experience who truly love their children and wives and want to be the provider. So while maybe "most men" isn't correct, I should say "most men in my life experience" have been that way. I don't know how I find them so easily.
There sure are a lot of women on here talking about how their husbands just want top watch porn and play with their toys while the wife does all the providing and cleaning. Sure sounds like a mom taking care of a child.
True, but the examples here are the exceptions, not the rule
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
You do seem to know a good number of examples, but in real life, most husbands are out working.
People are posting here because they do have family members with problems.
Seriously, you must know that men do work, right? You do realize that the work force isn't nearly only females, right?
..
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
..
"I especially don't
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
"I especially don't understand this when the relationships aren't that old. "
9 years isn't that old? What qualifies as "old" to you?
My statement about "old" wasn't necessarily responding....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
My statement about "old" wasn't necessarily responding to you. Sorry for the confusion.
A 9 year marriage isn't "new," it's kind of in the gray area. Not long and not short.
In your case, I would offer this advice. Get out before your marriage is long enough that a court would order you to pay him long term spousal support and/or splitting of your retirement. The longer you're married to him, the worse it will be for you either way. He's young enough right now, that a court would expect him to "get a job" and support himself (or move in with his indulging family who will support him).
This reminds me of my sister's in-laws. My sister's brother-in-law was a lot like you've described...lazy, wouldn't work and his wife couldn't depend on him for home chores or child chores. She divorced him after 14 years. In her state, Maryland, she did have to pay him some support for a few years, but then was completely free of him. In some states, it seems like 10 years is some kind of threshold for having to pay support for 2-5 years.
Just as you've described, his parents never appreciated what his wife was doing...working, taking care of the family, etc. I think some of it was guilt, knowing that their own son was such a flake. Your in-laws may not appreciate all that you're doing, but at some level they have to know that you're the breadwinner and without you, the household wouldn't have an income.
My comment about how "old" a relationship is may not apply to you, but, the rest of my comment would still apply, right?
How long do you intend to be his sole-supporter while he won't work and won't be a dependable stay at home parent?
<<
You have to decide where you're going to draw the line. If he can't or won't take care of himself and be a fair contributor to the marriage (either by bringing home a fair paycheck or doing the full "stay at home parent" responsibilities in an organized fashion), then kick his ass to the curb. Why wouldn't you do that?
I don't understand why women who are bringing in most or nearly all of the income, while also managing many or the household and child related chores, are supporting these men who won't work, or who won't work most of the time. I especially don't understand this when the relationships aren't that old.
<<
As I've mentioned in a few posts, my ADHD, OCD, PD husband of over 30 years has always brought in a strong income. I know that I could never have gotten past those early years if he wasn't working and just watching TV or playing video games, while I was having to manage everything plus bring home the money.
It always falls on the woman
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
It always falls on the woman as if we gave birth to our husbands or as if they're too stupid to live. We always have to take care of the kids AND them.)
This comment is really wrong, and a bit offensive.... It's based on your life, and the abuse and pain you're enduring. But it doesn't describe most marriages...It doesn't fall on the wife of husbands who live responsibly in life...
Nurturing always falls on the woman especially in any kind of Christian relationship because women are seen as the "heart" and men as the "head". Women have expectations in that kind of background and belief system. Women are the help mates, the companions, the other, the extra. Women take care of the whole family and when Dad gets home he gets to rule the roost and not have any idea what kind of work has been done and will be done 24/7 with no breaks and no days off. That's the work of a woman in a traditional family.
By the way, when I write, should I not speak from my own life and experience? How could anyone possibly know the hearts and minds and lives of all the billions of people in the world? And how can we even know if "most" men work when we haven't actually surveyed "most" men. That's spoken from your own perspective as well.
So many deadbeats out there and so many ready to defend the indefensible.
Hi LyraHeartstrings....
Submitted by c ur self on
I didn't intend to put you down or upset you...Yes, it's fine in my opinion to talk about your realities....I just ask one thing...Try not to lump us to much:)....If I had the power to reach threw this computer and take your pain away I would....
I was married for 30 years to my first wife...I lost her with breast cancer at age 49...She worked 8 to 4:30...I worked 7 to 3:30...More times than not she would come home to supper cooking, and she was always so relieved when she knew I was taking us out or had supper started, and the kids doing there homework...I remarried at age 51 and I do most all the house work and pay all the bills here...My wife is a severe add, who takes adderall so she can function and hold a job...She is a sweetly but very undisciplined, carries a lots of baggage from her early years, she is messy and a hoarder....I think she does the best she can considering the mind she has to deal with. The facts are if didn't do the work here we would live in a dump....I got very angry and bitter in the early years of our marriage, because I had never experienced anyone who lived this way...So I had to deal w/ my own heart, or I should say God had to deal w/ me....I understand your pain, and again if I could take it away I would....
Blessing...Lyra
C
So many deadbeats out there and so many ready to defend the inde
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
So many deadbeats out there and so many ready to defend the indefensible.
<<<
You work two jobs. Are you saying that most of the married women that you work with have husbands that don't work? Are you saying that in your neighborhood and church most families that have a dad in the home that doesn't work?
There's a reason why there's a statistic out there that when couples divorce, the woman's standard of living goes down and the man's goes up.....that's because men typically are the LARGER earners in most marriages. That stat wouldn't exist if most married men don't work.
The claim that "women earn less for the same job as a man" wouldn't exist if men didn't work. Most married men WORK. Most married men EARN MORE than their wives do. That is a fact.
You have gotten the short end of the stick. YES! You have been dealt a bad hand. If I were you, I would get this guy out of my home before I was married to him for so long that I would owe him spousal support for a long period of time and a split of my retirement. He's a drag on your household in the worst way....he's a terrible example for your child. The fact that you're having to "do it all," while your H is lazy is a bad example for your child. Break the cycle that started with your mom and dad.
http://www.columbia.edu/~yc2444/Why%20Do%20Married%20Men%20Earn%20More%2...
What is a Deadbeat?
Submitted by kellyj on
Here's some more statistics that support what I think is very close to the truth. My thought an experiences here seem to line up with what I see as well. Taken from an article on "Deadbeats Dad's" ( defined by a father who does not make child support payments.
In general, statistics indicate that between 85 to 91 percent of children covered either by private or court-ordered child-support agreements actually receive payments, the vast majority receiving regular support payments. And statistics also reveal the close association between the regularity of payment and the frequency of contact between fathers and their children.
Studies also show that many noncustodial fathers who do not pay child support simply can't afford to. Some are unemployed or on sick leave. In fact, one of the best predictors of nonpayment is the unemployment rate. Higher incomes are associated with higher compliance rates, and lower incomes with lower rates. One study suggests that a father's ability to pay, in addition to his willingness to pay, determines the extent to which he fulfills his child-support obligations.
This is kind of a no brainer. The study concluded that only 15% (on the high end) of men after their divorce....qualify as a "Deadbeat Dad" by definition and do not make child support payments because they are unemployed or cannot afford to.
I think the last sentence about ability to pay in addition to willingness to pay are not at all mutually exclusive. Why? If they were working before they got divorced and were willing to work.....they wouldn't be Dead Beat dads in the first place......therefore.....a "Dead Beat Dad", was a "Dead Beat" before he was divorced and while he was married.
Since we're talking about ADHD in this particular case.....the popular number being used currently is around 5% of the population have ADHD. While the ADA (Americans With Disabilities Act) recognizes ADHD as an accepted disability in the work place.....it only provides that certain allowances be made for someone who has it...specifically? A little more flexibility with schedules and breaks as far as I understand this. This also protects the employer since a person cannot use other excuses for things outside of schedules and breaks in connection to their job performance and ADHD.....that's it.
What does this mean in my minds eye? It means that ADHD cannot be used for anything (any excuse) not to work or have a job but someone who has it can't be fired if they need breaks that do not coincide with a set schedule depending on the circumstances. It doesn't say or indicate that they are not expected to perform the same or get paid for time they haven't worked.
The number's in the article you supplied were interesting. Education was the only variable that was consistent in both genders that had the same correlation to each other. This makes sense also.
Bottom line as I read it also considered what was not in the article (the effect on Marriage in correlation to being married or not....the impact marriage has on a woman's ability to earn a living and make as much as a man) Reading in between the lines....the majority of people who get married tend to do so to also raise a family and have children or because they get pregnant and get married after the fact.
Taken from a study on childless marriages stated... Most women who don't have children are not married -- and the vast majority of married women ultimately have kids, federal statistics show. Further statistics.......
28% of married couples do not have children (in 2010 )
22%: Percentage of U.S. wives who earned more than their husbands, up from 4% in 1970
70%: Percentage of women who say they are less financially dependent on their spouses than their mothers were.
3.3 million: Number of married couples in the US in which the wife is the sole earner. That's 2.4 million more than in 1970.
230%: Increased likelihood of both members of a married couple being obese, compared with dating partners. New new study links domestic bliss to serious weight gain,
62.6 million: Number of married women in 2007. (that would also assume men for this study)
18%: Percentage of married couples in which the wife earned at least $5,000 more than the husband in 2007.
23%: Percentage of married couples in which the wife had more education than the husband in 2007.
Based on these facts as one source for this.....only a little more than 5% of women were the sole money earners in 2007. Only 18% made more than their spouses. Only 23% had more education and only 28% of couples don't have children. That's 72% of all married women have children and the vast majority who don't have children are not even married in the first place.
So let's add this up? Out of the 18% who made more than their husbands......only 5% of those were the sole breadwinner. That leaves 12% of these men who either do not work at all or make less than their wives. And after divorce....only 9%-15% of men do not make child support payments due to lack of income and money.
In the range 9-15% deadbeat dads.......you also see 12% of married men who do not work or makes less than their wives. These two figures do seem to support each other at a glance and I just randomly picked the first couple sites that provided this information. This doesn't mean that every man who doesn't work for what ever reason is a dead beat. The statistics do show 23% of women have higher educations, 28% are without children, and the same 5% who are the sole breadwinner also supports the fact that some of these women probably have good careers from higher education levels and the men stay home an take care of the children/household but that would only be 5-18% of the 72% of couples who do have children in comparison which could only accounts for around 25% or less of that entire range of women..
So out of all men who do not work or make less than their wives.......or are divorced and don''t make support payments......relatively speaking and what is left in about 5-12% probability that these men are truly dead beats ....either inherently lazy or have some kind of mental or physical infirmity that would prevent them from earning a living.
I did the math in rough figures in head so don't go quoting these as fact but they are probably + or - 5% either way I'm guessing?
The point here is that roughly 90% or men who are married or divorced with children in this country appear to have jobs and earn a living in rough figures.
And only 5% or the population have ADHD. You do the math. Figure the % of men with ADHD (although maybe slightly higher in % correlation....without getting too precise here) might only account for a fraction of all dead beats out there in the general population for all reasons not accounted for by just ADHD alone.....maybe 2-3% or less possibly as a guess? That's possibly 2-3% or less of the 12-15% dead beats out of all married men out there which starts making the excuse not to work for someone who has ADHD looking pretty lame indeed.
J
My thoughts....
Submitted by c ur self on
(That's possibly 2-3% or less of the 12-15% dead beats out of all married men out there which starts making the excuse not to work for someone who has ADHD looking pretty lame indeed.)
I don't have any figure's in front of me to substantiate this theory....But, I bet if you did the math on the 12 to 15% of dead beat parents (male and female)....You would find substance abuse in 90% of that group...Over the 37 years I worked for my past employer we only fired a handful of employee's....Substance abuse was present in most all of them....
My wife who suffer's w/ the effects of add raised my two step son's by herself. The one child who's biological Father almost never paid child support was unstable due to substance abuse.....
This is kind of a no brainer. The study concluded that only 15%
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>>>This is kind of a no brainer. The study concluded that only 15% (on the high end) of men after their divorce....qualify as a "Deadbeat Dad" by definition and do not make child support payments because they are unemployed or cannot afford to.
>>>
Right, most divorced dads of minor-aged kids are not deadbeat dads. Most pay child support. Most are working. Many if not most are earning more than their ex-wives.
>>
I think the last sentence about ability to pay in addition to willingness to pay are not at all mutually exclusive. Why? If they were working before they got divorced and were willing to work.....they wouldn't be Dead Beat dads in the first place......therefore.....a "Dead Beat Dad", was a "Dead Beat" before he was divorced and while he was married.
>>
While it's true that the "deadbeat dad" who didn't work while married is a deadbeat dad after divorce, it's not necessarily true that all "deadbeat dads" didn't work during the marriage.
Sadly, there is a number of EMPLOYED DIVORCED dads who refuse to pay child support because they want to "move on" and "start a new life" and maybe have concluded that their "new life" doesn't' include paying child support. Obviously, this is not the majority of divorced dads. But, we cannot conclude that a working dad will always pay child support.
Women do more. It's true.
Submitted by ChrisChris on
Hi,
I just want to agree with the sentiment that women HAVE to do it all and the frustration that accompanies that realization is real. When it comes to basic house and family upkeep, study after study after study has shown that the majority of working women with kids will come home from work and put in a full shift doing housework, yard work and child care. The latest study published in 2009 (Google "Taking on the Second Shift") determined that only 15-20% of employed married men with kids make a comparable after-work effort.
Even in childhood the division of labor between girl and boy siblings is lopsided. Check out this NYT blog post --> parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/do-girls-have-more-chores-than-boys/ and pay close attention to the comment section.
This comment observation from a reader named "j" sums up what I see in my neighborhood too:
The boys hop on their bike and leave as soon as the parents are gone, the girls chase them and threaten to tell that they weren’t there to do whatever assigned job given. The mother comes back, everyone argues, the mother is always manipulated by the son with his version, the girls cry, the boys boast and it starts all over again the next day.
This is how things went in my house growing up and how they have continued more-or-less in my adult relationships.
chrischris it take all kinds....
Submitted by c ur self on
A few points....
First both of my wives were not subjected to this type of husband your describing....
Secondly; the amount of energy spent by both my wives jobs...could not compare the my job...
Third; they both had and my present wife still has the option to stay home and be a house wife...They both choose to not do it....
Fourth; Like OWW loves to say...Kick his A to the curb....LOL...
Responsible Men do there share, just like responsible women....
Bums or Bums....People who are Users...male or female or who they are....
Point taken, but
Submitted by ChrisChris on
Point taken, but I am not the sponsor of these studies. I just pasted the results of their studies in my comment area.
I Agree, I Saw All of This Exactly Like It Says Chischris
Submitted by kellyj on
But with one exception to the rule that I experienced at my house for example (and with me) This is that "more of less" part you were talking about....thinking here.....a little more than less in my case???
Starting at my house: My father did nothing in this way 0%...0% of the time. I don't think I ever saw him go to the grocery store once...literally and accurately stated. He did polish his own shoes (remembering his shoe kit) which I know as fact he learned and got use to doing in the military. It seemed to be a big deal for him and he wanted it done right. That was about it. His shirts were pressed and folded and neatly stacked and lined up in his drawers (again military style) His socks, tie's, suits, belts were perfectly sorted by color and hanging and ready at all times. In the morning....food was waiting for us and already prepared. All we had to do was walk in....sit down and eat it....and get up and go. His newspaper was sitting next to his chair everyday waiting for him without fail. Our house ran like a military barracks on schedule and on time to the minute....everyday, every month, every year....without exception. He was the general, my mother was his executive assistant and we were the grunts who took and obeyed orders. Any non compliance was dealt with the same. Strictly, severely and immediately and done in a way that you paid it and were sorry for it. Sorry for it not in terms that you felt sorry for yourself.....sorry for the day you were born and never wanted to have to deal with the consequences ever again!! lol
"You are all weak and worthless!! You....MAGGOT!..... drop and give me 100 before I rip your worthless head off and shit down your neck! You eye-balling me boy??? You've got approximating 0 point 0 seconds to haul ass and keep moving or I'll rip your those eyes right out of your worthless head and skull fuck your empty sockets boy!!!!! I want you dressed, brushed and standing in front of me in five minutes or you will be walking to school this morning." I took soe artistic license here for illustration purposes but not all that far from the truth.....perhaps the words may have been embellished a bit? lol Anyway...he wasn't kidding about the walking part. If you weren't there in the time allotted to you....you would come out to see him pulling out of the driveway and off down the road with you standing there with your books in your hands.( not the recommended way to build self esteem and success for a child with ADHD LOL) ... but you did learn to move fast however! lol There were no gray areas! lol
Of course mostly.....he never followed through with anything of this nature, but it was the same kind of military BS that put the fear of God into you and..... they used on him so he figured....what's good for me will be good for you too. This was a personal problem my father had to say the least. lol
Somebody has got to teach this boy how to fly straight and keep some order around this house!!!!
"Woman.....where's my newspaper....and you know I don't like my egg yolks over cooked...what do you have to say for yourself? And what's is this foo foo frilly crap in my bowl here? Quiche? How much did that cost me? Only faggots eat Quiche and I'm no fag! Where's my bacon and eggs? Say what? The eggs and bacon are in the Quiche? Only faggots eat eggs and bacon like this...this crap has no business sitting on my breakfast table!!" and so on and so forth. lol
"Girls....take over for your mother and clean this kitchen....she has to take me to work and she needs the car to go grocery shopping for food today." Let's go everyone (clapping his hands).....don't just stand there with your thumbs in your mouths. Chop Chop.....hubba hubba!!"
Again....more creative license here for illustration purposes (and humor) but this really is how division of labor gets defined in these ways. When you have a very dominant and controlling partner who calls the shots and barks orders.....the style and how things are done are determined by he or she who barks the loudest and everyone else will just follow in fear of retribution. It comes at you so fast.......you have no chance to think about it and are so worried about the consequences that you don't have time to worrying about anything else or consider saying anything to the contrary. How can you?
But it's also interesting to note here....how this chain of command style degradates or maintains itself from one subordinate down to the other in my own family situation for example. My mother was following orders so therefore....she had her assigned duties from my father but....when it came to her trying to do this kind of thing with my sisters for example....she would be afraid that they could not meet my fathers standards so she never asked them to do anything in her assigned areas in fear of the higher ranking officer docking her with a penalty. Shit rolls down hill as they say in this kind of environment but there always has to be a head to chop somewhere when something is not done up to par. If you are at the bottom of the hill regardless of what gender you are......tag your it and the lowest ranking grunt will always get the shit end of the stick when it finally gets passed to them.
What is really interesting is how this kind of situation deviates from what I saw the same as you and what this article suggests in most family situations.
Since cooking and cleaning were not in my assigned areas (which for me was garbage duty, exterior house and yard maintenance and auto repair) I was free to help my mother in the kitchen at will any time I wanted. Since I was always hungry and liked to eat....I use to help her make things and bake with her sometimes and learned how to cook when I was pretty young and make myself food. I also found that by doing this.....I could avoid eating with the family at times and be out the door before anyone had a chance to say anything on the weekends so I could be free of this non sense when my father was off work. My sisters on the other hand were smart enough not to go there with my mother since she was under the same strict orders that they were so.....using there heads based on this scenario....they weren't going to step in that pile of pooh since they already knew where this road would go.
Ultimately....I was free to learn of do anything that was not male assigned duties or task at will when I chose but was also not expected to do these things either. The first thing you learn in the military.....never volunteer for anything and avoid committing yourself and you will never be called out of line and have to suffer the consequences. That's how that one works
So in my house.....I learned to cook and clean from my mother and my sisters never did. To this day.....I'm a better chef than my sisters are in most regards since I can make things from scratch without a cook book. It is also why I cook and clean the kitchen without any problem despite having ADHD plus.....I have never expected anyone to make me food and serve me since I started doing that for myself when I was still in grade school like I said.
What I have discovered in all my adult relationships is somewhat different than the norm. Women I have been with (without children) almost without exception across the board hate to cook and make a big deal out of cooking and cleaning the kitchen which I put on par with yard maintenance, lawn and garbage duty and see them about equal. In all my relationships by default.....I cook, grocery shop and do the yard work too however......
all the other chores like laundry, putting away things, organizing and keeping tidy I absolutely suck at and am just the same as in the description like most others would describe as typical.
I think this is a really important observation and something that has merit for everyone to think about. Since I cook and grocery shop....the kitchen is kind of by default ....my area. The women I have been with do exactly what men do that women complain about. They throw things haphazardly into drawers, screw up my pantry organization, put things in the wrong drawers so I can't find them but.....they seem to close door cabinets and drawers and wipe counters howoever. Since the kitchen is more of my design (which it is because I remodeled it myself). I have everything the way I like it and I also maintain it better because of it....naturally without having to say anything. To the point.....that I don't leave cabinet doors and drawers open....I'm picky-er about where things are and get frustrated and scolding at times when things are left out of place.....just like women. In the kitchen and in just this one area of the house.....there appears to be a role reversal and a shift in level of importance or priority because of it.
What I am proposing is that this is not a gender thing at all. It all depends on who does what and what you are used to doing and were taught to do it this way starting at an early age. Funny thing is about this.....when I go to peoples houses as a guest (or my sisters for example who ask me to help because they are less sure about cooking unless they have a cook book in front of them to use needing step by step instructions) I generally by default, jump in and help clear and clean up after dinner and help with the cooking when ever I see the need arise and offer to help without even thinking about it. I have seen this difference with other men not doing this and I kind of stand out in this way because of it but it just comes naturally for all the reasons I said.
Bottom line here.....I'm horrible at the things I didn't do and the other more female relegated areas just like other ADHD men I read about except in the areas I have some say or control over and have the experience to go along with it. In this sense.....better than a good majority of women I have come across....including organizing things so it will make this job easier for me to do. It's not a big deal and I don't avoid doing it because it's easy and doesn't require any more effort than mowing the lawn or taking out the garbage (lifting heavy objects and doing "dirty" work)
Conversely......most women I have found make a big deal about doing these things and make it out to be a much bigger deal than it really is and want a lot of acknowledgement and credit they did something that they saw as being so "hard and difficult". They also appear to need a lot of "help" while doing it and usually really get upset if they are left to do these things alone or by themselves.
I find this fascinating and very revealing. It has everything to do with what you are good at.....the areas that are important to you....and things you view as hard or difficult and don't really enjoy doing more than gender. In how I have begun to notice and see things.....gender has little or nothing to do with it and men and women are equal opportunity hypocrites when it comes to many of the things that have to do with housework and division of labor......
and......the things you don't do or have not done tend to get devalued and seen as less work or less important.....and the things that you do....tend to get appraised up and seen as more work and harder than it really is in a direct one to one comparison. The weight and importance scales become more dependent on how you personalize them in this way than how they really are on the Kelvin/Kinetic energy measurement system I think. LOL
That's my story and I'm sticking to it! lol
J
You've got talent my friend....
Submitted by c ur self on
Entertaining R-Rated Novel about life w/ my Master Sergeant Father LOL....I love a lot about how your home ran, so disciplined, I see where your work ethic came from....Sounds to me like, it could have used a little more Love & kindness, and show of affection to go along w/ the discipline...:)
Love must go along with the admonition or we end up w/ tons of baggage and insecurities...Just look at me:)
Here's you a man hug friend ()....If you pinch me on the butt, were fighting!
Here's you a nice short novel....I think you would enjoy...It's called Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom...It's based on a true story...
Well let's hit the gym, I need to burn some energy, and wife isn't an option, can't deal w/ the victim mentality...God is to good, so lets just count our blessings and keep it calm today. PTL....:)
just want to agree with the sentiment that women HAVE to do it a
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
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just want to agree with the sentiment that women HAVE to do it all and the frustration that accompanies that realization is real. When it comes to basic house and family upkeep, study after study after study has shown that the majority of working women with kids will come home from work and put in a full shift doing housework, yard work and child care. The latest study published in 2009 (Google "Taking on the Second Shift") determined that only 15-20% of employed married men with kids make a comparable after-work effort.
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This is very true in many cases. When H and I had traditional 8-5 jobs, he literally did NOTHING at home except take out the trash in regards to "home chores". He had no idea how to turn the washer or dryer on or the dishwasher. No idea how to turn a gas range on. Now, that he's retired, he has learned a few things.
In regards to child care, H did change diapers and did help out here and there with the kids, but it was often on his schedule, when he wanted to do these things. ha ha. As if a child will only need things when the parent is willing to do things.
Endless surveys have shown that women work two jobs when they are employed. SAHM tend to work 24/7 as well.
There are some dads, like c ur self, that are more hands-on. I have 2 brothers who earn a lot of money, work a lot of hours, but still do a lot of home and child chores. One brother cooks dinner 3 nights a week, along with other home chores (laundry, kitchen clean up, etc). The other brother does all after meal clean up. His wife loves to cook, so she does that, but he does all the clean up. He also gets the kids ready in the morning and drives them to school because his wife has to leave VERY early in the morning for her job.
These couples truly act like a team.
My H "wants'" to act like a team, but the talk doesn't match the walk. When we both worked 8-5, H's answer to the fact that he didn't want to do more chores was that we should eat out every meal. lol.
It was frustrating, because he always had Sat and Sun off, but I had Tues and Sunday off. So, on Tuesdays, I would do all the "catch up" chores, but on Saturday, when H had the day to himself, he never did ONE LICK of work...ever. Not even once. He'd either sleep in very late, and then watch TV, or he'd go golfing for the day and then nap afterwards.
C ur self is one of the more rare husbands that did a lot and still does a lot.
I think that it just depends on what the H was like as a single man. In hindsight, H let his housemate do all the work. H spent his free time with sports and the gym. That should have been a red flag.
I think people need to pay close attention to how partners are before they get into committed relationships: Are they neat and clean? Are they stable employees/workers? Do they have trouble with bosses or co-workers? Do they often have "pity-parties"? Do they "do their fair share" of work? Are they CAREFUL when doing a chore or their work?
My brothers kept very clean apartments before they married, so that was a good sign to their wives that they had the discipline to continue with chores.
One thing I've noticed with many ADHD men who don't do chores is that they truly have NO IDEA how long chores take. Unless they actually watch you do a chore, they assume that it took you no time at all, and therefore shouldn't be appreciated.
I remember when I was putting in "closet organizers" into our closets, so I had everything pulled out of the closets. I was using the guest room as kind of a "staging room," with closet stuff and parts. H called me one morning and said that his sister had called and she would be driving thru our city that day and wanted to spend the night. When I told H that there was no way I could get the guest room ready in time, H didn't believe me. I asked him to come home from work to help, and he refused. So, I simply said that his sister could not stay. To this day, H has never understood why I was so "stubborn" (his words). He actually said that I should have been able to get the room ready in 30 minutes. ha ha. Seriously, when work gets done without H being there, he has no idea how long it all takes.
I do hope that the younger generation of men will be raised to understand that home and child chores are not "women's work," and that they are raised doing more of these types of chores, so they will know and expect to do these things once they're older.
I Think the Big Difference Comes Along With Childeren
Submitted by kellyj on
I won't go into all the things that probably everyone already suspects as why this is. Too much to go into but....I have seen something that I think is the root or core of this problem and I will grant women a lot of slack in feeling the inequity here because I have heard it and seen it and too possibly....a much lessor degree....done this myself in my past. To make the point in saying....it was an error or mistake in my own thinking.
My wife had this experience herself with her ex husband and it only came out after years of struggling and fighting over this kind of thing....at gun point in a counseling session. Her ex husband finally admitted that what he did had more value and was worth more than what she did. Not in time but in the impact or value it carried with it into the family. The logical conclusion to think thinking is....."so therefore, I don't have to do as many things because I have earned it and you still owe the bank on your side or.....all things considered.....we about even." If you can't get pas these kinds of beliefs that are not true....what motivation do you have to change or worse....you feel like now....you are doing more than your share.
My father did this same thing with my mother. He told her that what she did "I could hire someone $5.00 an hour to do." That sums it up right there.
I think if you don't spend all day.....everyday non stop with kids or anything without a rest or break from it. It will where you down and test your endurance in a way that is equivalent or even more exhausting over time than doing something that may require more effort or is more difficult to do intermittently with lots of time in between to recover.
Making arbitrary valuations that get thrown onto what other people do without any experience or knowledge of it base on something completely dissimilar and trying to make a comparison is completely irrational and flawed logic to use as a basis for this kind of thinking.
Devaluing what another person does to elevate you own value or worth in the things you do is a deeper psychological issue.
These are all speculative projections based on nothing but emotion and make no logical sense. I think it's safe to say here that if you are running up against a belief system like this in another person who has been brought to these facts and had a chance to consider the error in this kind of thinking and they still can't get past this then that's a real problem that has more to do with not being fair than it does with some severe denial in my mind?
In other words.....a reasonable person when brought to something that they ignorantly hadn't considered...should or would immediately come to a simple and easy revelation and solution and be open to discuss this in a reasonable way.
I know in my past.....I learned the hard way in guesstimating time inaccurately and in minor ways....still do. But it wasn't that hard to figure out after enough failures that there is one really simple solution to this. Take what you think it will take and double it.....and then add an additional 10% just in case.
I also set my watch 5 minutes fast. Ten minutes is too much since that can screw you up in other ways. lol People have said....well that's stupid because you know what time it really is. Not for someone with ADHD. Yes I do know what time it is but I still chronically miscalculate it and just go off what the hands say anyway.
I've been doing this since I was in my twenties and it works pretty well for the most part but....now I know about my ADHD....I take extra steps on top of this.
The biggest and most effective one of all is not to schedule two things that have to be done on the same day thinking they will get done! lol
I think for someone with ADHD.....the on demand kind of thing that children place on us cannot be achieved very well or sometimes....just barely if that's the case. I think it requires some real admissions in these areas that a person just cannot get themselves to admit and will just keep running into the same brick wall over and over in order not to make that admission in the first place. That's denial.
Projecting and devaluing is another issue on top of that which falls once again into the Narc category which is another and more difficult one to deal with. I think this is where it starts becoming irrational, unreasonable and never ending instead of just being naive and ignorant.
I think a naive and ignorant person will generally go "oops.....my bad. Sorry....let see if we can find another way." which is not being unreasonable even if it takes a while to get it down and just a little slow to pick things up at first. That would be me in this case in my past.
I think right there is the difference. I never devalued anything that anyone ever did for me or did that was a different skill than my own or could not recognize that someone could do something better than me and just say so too there face in the moment. That's a big red flag right there if they can't do that and blame you for it instead
He actually said that I should have been able to get the room ready in 30 minutes. ha ha. Yeah? How would you know? lol more devaluing right there.
J
My H said something similar....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
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My wife had this experience herself with her ex husband and it only came out after years of struggling and fighting over this kind of thing....at gun point in a counseling session. Her ex husband finally admitted that what he did had more value and was worth more than what she did. Not in time but in the impact or value it carried with it into the family. The logical conclusion to think thinking is....."so therefore, I don't have to do as many things because I have earned it and you still owe the bank on your side or.....all things considered.....we about even." If you can't get pas these kinds of beliefs that are not true....what motivation do you have to change or worse....you feel like now....you are doing more than your share.
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When H and I were both working a regular 40 hour a week job, and the subject of why he didn't split the household duties would come up, his response was, "I earn more than you do." Well, he's older than I am, so was further in his career, but the fact remains that we both only have the same number of hours in a day.
I wasn't even expecting a pure 50/50 split of the home/child chores. I would have been happy with 66/33 if my 66% "made up" for the fact that I earned less.
The funny thing is....now I earn more than H does because he's retired and my business is doing so well. He would flip out if I ever said that he needs to do ALL (or most all) of the household chores because I earn more.
Life is like a vapor, her today gone tomorrow....be thankful...
Submitted by c ur self on
I got married at 20...she was 19...I was raised by a loving dedicated Mother, but she disciplined us...Three boys...She made us learn to cook, clean, do laundry and take care of ourselves...My wife was raised in a home w/ a Mother and Father. She never was a bad child, but, still had very little discipline, and her mother did most of the work...When we married I did most of the cooking, she did not know how....Later in life she became a good cook....She had some nerve issues, related to a sexual assault by a in-law when she was 14...We never new this until she awoke in the middle of the night screaming in her 40's....I knew something was wrong, but she had blocked it out of her memory. We had two babies and she did most of the child raising (at least the night time stuff) because I was on midnight shift from the ages 18 to 31...By the time I was 25 I had a two year old and a new born. I was probably hard on her in many aspects....I've always lived with an extra gear, I out performed most of my co-workers and I can out clean and cook most women (just a fact) My baby brother's the same. And I also wanted sex more than most two men....Part of what probably caused it was I was molested also by a 31 year old woman when I was just 15....She taught me everything about sex...It basically destroyed my dating life and innocence in that area...My fist wife developed OCD...Tric... (hair pulling after the kids were born, then the migraines started and she dealt with them up until the cancer got bad...Then they stopped....She would push me away and I didn't know why I guess it was the mental pain from the rape...But when we finally had sex, she would love it....But, has soon as it was over she would roll over and get in the fetal position and act like it didn't happen and wouldn't talk to me...Some nights I would just roll over and cry, I didn't know how to help her:(...I realized as the Head of the house, and the husband it was my job to just fill holes....What ever didn't get done, just do it,....Inside outside...Just be responsible and survive....After our last daughter married at age 25 for 3 years until the cancer showed up we were alone again...She got much better about sex later in life (some better)....Once she remembered the rape and got past it, she has more peace with it....I can't tell you how many times I heard....Please hurry......
So to be quiet honest when I remarried I was hoping things would be a little less one sided in that area...And it was, when we weren't fighting....But its right back to the same thing now, she developed the dryness thing vaginal wall thinning some women deal with after menopause....So now its ever two week or longer unless I can be pitiful enough....And even then it's a whole lot of coconut oil, a tensed up set up legs and the Can you hurry up again is back:(....I didn't realize how hard it is to be a women.....
I've never had a problem getting up and going to work, doing chores and what ever need done to make life better for my wife and our family...I coached the girls in Softball, we we're just a close bunch. We were faithful to our church and prayed together, and on occasions I had to discipline them especially the younger one, she was to much like me:) mischief, but tenderhearted Big crocodile tears when I would scold her...Tough on a tenderhearted Dad :(...So its really hard for me to understand about your husbands actions....
I am thankful for all the Lord has brought me through and I do want to live with my wife in a loving manner...I'm no different from anyone else...I really need to c my self....And deal with my own heart...It's like J say's there's no victims in a marriage....We took a Vow to have the opportunity to be here....
That "time it takes to" thing
Submitted by ChrisChris on
Yes the magical thinking about task-time STILL gets me upset when I remember how demanding my ADHD dad could be. Why can't I deflate the air mattress RIGHT NOW? It shouldn't take more than 3 minutes! And in the cases where he would watch me complete a chore, (usually by standing there and glowering at me to 'control' the situation) the passage of time per my work would still go unregistered in his brain. "You see, that didn't take any more than ten minutes!" he'd declare, after monitoring me for 35 minutes.