So my husband is ADHD even though he hasn't been formally diagnosed. He knows it, I know it, there is no question.
He works from home and has a great job in sales, spends a lot of time on the phone, but also has decent down time as well. Slow days to watch tv, browse the internet etc, while a lot of very nonstop days on sales calls, and the occasional meeting he travels to in his territory.
Anyway, I am very much NOT ADHD and a extremely organized. I always handle all personal stuff during the work day at lunch - eat, balance my checkbook in Excel, pay bills, make doctor appointments, run to the dry cleaner, etc., whatever. That's my time, work permitting, to take an hour a couple times a week to get things done.
So this happens all the time - if there is something important between us, letting him know what he owes for something bills-wise, an appointment to make, etc., or if I just have a question about something, I will email it to him during that getting things done time.
Like anyone I may email during the work day, I of course never expect anyone to respond....why would I? They're at work! So anyway, for the five years we've been together it's like, let's say I go home at night and at like 8:00 I remember something I emailed him about, so to start off addressing it, I will phrase it "Did you see the email about X?" like, PURELY to know, before talking, whether he has read the email and I can address it one way, or if he never read the email then I will explain it from the beginning. Makes sense, right?
ANY TIME i say this he will go on a rant about how yes, he saw it, and he doesn't have time to respond to my emails during the work day, and gets mad/irritated. I will try to explain I wasn't saying that in a sarcastic or accusatory "why didnt you respond to my email" tone, i was saying it as a preface so I knew whether to explain it or pick up from the end of the email. I DONT KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I CAN EXPLAIN THIS without him jumping to this conclusion like hes this victim, like i am harassing him to email me back during the day. It makes me so angry when he pulls it out in some random fight like "and god forbid I dont respond to your emails during the work day!" and I want to beat my head against the wall bc I HAVE NEVER ONCE EVER goven ANYONE a hard time about not responding to an email during the work day. Its like this "poor treatment" of him that I am not doing that he is making up and running with, even though 10,000 times ive explained that I never expect him to so much as LOOK at an email during the work day.....
Keep in mind also, as you probably can guess, he is a very disorganized and forgetful person. During times at which I told him X or Y, he always forgets, needs reminding, and ASKS me to "send him a message about it" or "put it in writing." At one point wiht this savings budget (in Excel) that we have, where he couldnt keep track of what he committed to putting in each month, nevermind the fact that I emailed him the excel sheet a million times, I just printed out a copy and put it on his desk at home....he asked why i did that and I said for your reference so you dont have to worry about which email it is in or where you may have saved it on your computer....he lost that too.
So we are looking for a new apartment because our lease is up soon, so I got on craigslist right now during my break and sent him three links via email. He just responds to me "I am working."
I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!! Like, don't lecture me, I know you're working. I don't expect you to read (let alone respond to) my emails right now, this is just something for us to review later, either him by himself or us together, tonight....or whenever he has the time. I feel like becaiuse he is ADHD, so much as getting emails from people is distracting, and because he has an inability to take responsibility for his ADHD, if he sees an email from someone, its "their fault" he is distracted, and he takes it out on them. I've heard of not calling someone at work or not calling someone after 10 pm, but when have you ever heard of "don't send someone an email to their personal email during the work day?" I resent being treated like im a rude obtrusive person at all, let alone when ive told him a million times that this is his record of business for us to attend to on our personal matters and NOTHING HE needs to look at or reply to while he is busy.
BUT at the same time, if i dont email him things, like appointments to be made, bills to be paid, all the adult stuff - like, that IS the most effective way ive found to deliver this information to him....
I don't deserve to be treated like I am interfering with him or imposing on him just by sending an email.
Can you try a couple of these things....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
1) Put in the subject line....please read after you're done working.
2) write him an email, save it to Drafts, then send them at 5:30 or whenever he is done with work....you can either email yourself a reminder, or have a daily alarm on your phone set to 5:30 that will remind you to send all drafts to him.
3) I would also politely mention that you are making these changes because your H has expressed annoyance at being made to feel that he must read your emails during work time.
I believe in removing the Red Herrings that ADHD people use. Once you've removed the cause of their complaints, they and you will see that the complaints continue, they just take a different form. then the ADHD person's BS is busted. At some point they will understand that THEY are the touchy ones that are whiners and complainers.
I can do that but why is it
Submitted by kathy1208 on
I can do that but why is it my responsibility? Why can he send me an email when he has something to tell me, at any time of the day, but i am supposed to tiptoe around him? He even calls me at work when he thinks of something he needs to tell me, ask me, etc - not on my cell but on my direct work line....and I am fine with it....but if I wasn't....i wouldn't condescendingly be like "IM AT WORK." I would be nice about it.
More importantly, I don't mind doing tiptoeing around his ADHD inability to focus id that's what it takes, so long as he stops blaming me when I did nothing wrong. Why is he angry with me? I did nothing wrong. Can't he see that most people don't flip out on their spouses or friends if that spouse or friend happens to send them an email at a time that they're at work?? That's my biggest issue. He treats me like I am acting so out of line simply by sending an email.
Also, the only time he seemed to take responsibility for his role in managing his attention span was when he made a folder just for emails from me, so they go straight to that, and he checks it when he has time. Recently I changed my email bc i changed my last name (we got married last year and I just changed it) so instead of the emails going to that folder, they started going straight to his inbox again. He mentioned that he "didnt know why they were doing that but then he realized my email changed when I changed my name" and he said he needs to "adjust the settings". I assumed he did, but this terse email response to me reveals he hasn't done that yet....again, why is that my fault? None of it is.
It's just frustrating to constantly be scolded and yelled at and treated impatiently when I am innocently minding my own business and being a normal nice person. There is only so much going out of my way to avoid sleeping the angry bear I can do here.
Well, when he complains to you then....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Then just say, "let's make a rule that we both have to honor. Either we both can call or send each other emails while the other is at work AND not get mad or annoyed, or we can't unless it's a 911 emergency...someone is bleeding/dying or similar. Which way do YOU want to agree to?"
Type up the agreement and email it to each other for record.
Did You?
Submitted by sunlight on
Did You?
When he hears "Did you see..?" then 3 things probably happen:
- feelings of shame from a lifetime of failure (his perception) rush over him, swamping him
- panic that he won't be able to respond coherently to a demand. The more he panics about this, the worse he knows his response will be because he knows his executive processing is screwed up (leading to a spiral down of self-disgust, and a spiral-up of panic that he is going to disappoint you again and then you will be mad about something).
- you're going to show yourself as better than him because (a) you're "always" (remeber his perception is that NOW is huge and overwhelming) sending him reminders (b) you're asking him to do things while he is doing other things (he knows he is worse at organizing and prioritizing than you - this leads again to immediate feelings of inferiority) and (c) you're asking him to do things he ought to have figured out for himself (he feels)
..
so since he has spent a lifetime battling these overwhelming instantaneous thoughts, rather than being shown up as a a blithering idiot yet again, he has learned that attack is the best defense. Because that makes you STOP attacking him (in his mind), and all he wants is for it all to STOP.
You might try, when you see him: "I sent you an email about x". If he responds defensively again, then don't be drawn out. Just say something like "I sent it so that you could look at it later", "I sent it to remind myself and I copied it to you too" etc. Don't be drawn into a back-and-forth, and don't get emotional. Sometimes ADHD people mirror others. So when he sees you respond like this, he will probably learn to copy you (without knowing why at first). So you're aiming for a response like "Yes, I saw it and will do it", "No, I need to go read my email etc". These are factual statements which don't lead to kaleidoscopic hallucinogenic explosions of incomprehensible emotions in his head. He doesn't have to figure out what you're feeling and how you want him to react. They're just statements. That is what he can process in real-time. Emotions are far harder to articulate and fathom out - he needs more time to think about those.
"when have you ever heard of "don't send someone an email to their personal email during the work day?""
Puts hand up. I don't generally send email or texts (or call) during work time even when communicating with eg my non-ADHD adult kids. I don't want to distract them by possibly putting them in a position where, when they hear from me, they think it must be important and so put responding to me or thinking about whatever I've said over and above what they happen to be doing at work (which is probably what your husband feels is what you really want regardless of how much you say you don't) . I'd wait to email or text until I know they're not likely to be working. That's just me.
"I'm working"
Submitted by sunlight on
"so I got on craigslist right now during my break and sent him three links via email. He just responds to me "I am working.""
I meant to include it in my earlier reply, but this made me laugh. A few weeks ago I texted one of my kids at about 6.30 am (didn't know when she was at work), all I got back was a text saying "I'm at work" - she didnt answer my text in any way at all. Just sent those exact words. I wanted an answer but she has ears (even ears for texts if you know what I mean) so I left it and she actually responded next day. I might have interpreted your husband's reply as an acknowledgement that he did see my message ie he was intending to say 'got it, I'm not sitting around doing nothing in case you're checking up on me but I can't deal with it now' which if it was my husband or kids might have been intended as reassurance that I wasn't ignored but in the queue.
Thank you! That is an
Submitted by kathy1208 on
Thank you! That is an interesting approach. The thing I just don't think I am sharp enough to keep up with the constant careful wordings of things with him. Now that you say how to word the email thing differently, It makes a lot of sense and I would have never thought of that myself.....and I will try that in the future. However, there are 10000000 other ways in the mean time that I will be acting innocently enough about whatever and he will morph it into something it isn't. I need to read up more about this stuff so I can appply what you did with the email thing more broadly and off the top of my head.
We got in another fight tonite (long story!!). I was so frustrated bc everything he is saying is him creating scenarios or quoting me and then me saying "when did that happen?" "when did i say that?" and him "you didnt but i saw where it was going" or "im paraphrasing" etc etc
And so then I just start crying and he is like "now you are trying to manipulate me with the crying."
OH MY GOSH!!! WHAT THE?!?! Why does he read into everything? Why does he accuse me of actions/words/thoughts that never occurred? I said to him - if youre arguing with someone and they start crying it could be because theyre frustrated/upset and so theyre crying - its not a communication tool - if i cry thats not me communicating wiht you, tahts me just being upset and its an aspect of whats going on right now that would be happens even if you had just left the room!
I asked him why he is paranoid, why everything I do has to be some nasty vendetta against him - the time i said X but didnt really (thats what you meant)....or the time i did Y but did (that's where it was going to go), or the times i cried because I was upset (youre not that upset youre just trying to get me to feel sympathy for you).
i am at the end of my rope with this man. i cant do anything right....i love him and I do things wrong sometimes but to him its ME....ALL THE TIME. The ACTUAL normal interactions we have are just that - normal. I feel like he misreads everything and assumes the worst about me. OH and in the fight hes like "I dont get how in one day you can be like i love you youre great etc but then get mad at me for _______ later" and
I am like, "because if I love you and think youre great we can still get in disagreements, and if i am upset about X and communicate that to you, what you just said TOTALLY explains to me why you treat a simple disagreement liek i am expressing disappointment in your very existence....doesnt it occur to you that someone can love you and have a problem with you at the same time, but the problem is just a small thing and no big deal and you dont have to get so defensive and angry because even if i am expressing an issue I still love you?"
He just goes "I stopped listening to you a long time ago...."
Personality Disorder
Submitted by Light on
Hi, I'm going to keep this brief, but I have come to believe that many people with ADD wind up developing a sort of personality disorder. This is presumably due to growing up with ADD with parents and teachers who were insufficiently helpful. I know a lot of ADHD people in real life and many don't demonstrate this personality disorder, but the ones that do are the ones whose spouses are up a wall! I suspect most complaints on this site are due to this, more than just "pure" ADHD being the issue. My husband was once diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, but he really didn't have what I would consider to be the "feature" symptoms of that. However, I think a lot of ADDers do develop a sort of Borderline Personality/Passive Aggressive Personality hybrid. There are a lot of likenesses that you might be interested in, if you have not researched this already. It could help explain why your husband argues in the style that he does. The below is from the Wikipedia page on Borderline Personality Disorder:
Symptoms include:
Out-of-control emotions
Unstable interpersonal relationships and self-esteem
Concerns about abandonment
Self-damaging behavior
Impulsivity
Frequently accompanied by depression, anxiety, anger or rage
The most distinguishing symptoms of BPD are marked sensitivity to rejection, negative criticism and thoughts and fears of possible abandonment.[9] Overall, the features of BPD include unusually intense sensitivity in relationships with others, difficulty regulating emotions and impulsivity. Other symptoms may include feeling unsure of one's personal identity and values, having paranoid thoughts when feeling stressed and severe dissociation.[9]
While strongly desiring intimacy, people with BPD tend toward insecure, avoidant or ambivalent, or fearfully preoccupied attachment patterns in relationships,[30] and they often view the world as dangerous and malevolent.[27] BPD is linked to increased levels of chronic stress and conflict in romantic relationships, decreased satisfaction of romantic partners, abuse and unwanted pregnancy. However, these factors appear to be linked to personality disorders in general.[31]
People with BPD can be very sensitive to the way others treat them, feeling intense joy and gratitude at perceived expressions of kindness, and intense sadness or anger at perceived criticism or hurtfulness.[27] Their feelings about others often shift from positive to negative after a disappointment, a perceived threat of losing someone, or a perceived loss of esteem in the eyes of someone they value. This phenomenon, sometimes called splitting or black-and-white thinking, includes a shift from idealizing others (feeling admiration and love) to devaluing them (feeling anger or dislike).[28] Combined with mood disturbances, idealization and devaluation can undermine relationships with family, friends, and co-workers.[29] Self-image can also change rapidly from positive to negative.
Manipulation to obtain nurturance is considered to be a common feature of BPD by many who treat the disorder, as well as by the DSM-IV.[32][33] However, some mental health professionals caution that an overemphasis on, and an overly broad definition of, manipulation can lead to misunderstanding and prejudicial treatment of people with BPD within the health care system.[34] (See Manipulative behavior and Stigma under Controversies.)
I agree with you......
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
Hi, I'm going to keep this brief, but I have come to believe that many people with ADD wind up developing a sort of personality disorder.
>>>>
I agree that many ADHD people have or would be Dx'd with another serious disorder, and very possibly an Axis II PD. But, I don't think it "develops" in adulthood...I think it worsens in adulthood.
.....I think they always have it, but traditionally, professionals will not Dx someone with a PD until they are at least 18 years old. So, even tho the Dx comes in adulthood, the symptoms were likely always there, but may worsen in adulthood because of the added stress and complications that adulthood brings (parenthood, being a spouse, having a job, taking care of children, etc)....many of these things are incompatible with a PD, so the PD symptoms can really FLARE.
This is presumably due to growing up with ADD with parents and teachers who were insufficiently helpful. I know a lot of ADHD people in real life and many don't demonstrate this personality disorder, but the ones that do are the ones whose spouses are up a wall! I suspect most complaints on this site are due to this, more than just "pure" ADHD being the issue. My husband was once diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, but he really didn't have what I would consider to be the "feature" symptoms of that. However, I think a lot of ADDers do develop a sort of Borderline Personality/Passive Aggressive Personality hybrid. There are a lot of likenesses that you might be interested in, if you have not researched this already. It could help explain why your husband argues in the style that he does. The below is from the Wikipedia page on Borderline Personality Disorder:
I do think that excellent parenting can mitigate some of the more outrageous behaviors. I think good parenting helps people become more self-aware, while indulgent parenting just reinforces bad behavior and blaming others.
My H has always been identified as having some issues ( I wasn't aware of this until after we were married). He was taken to psychiatrists as a child, he was never told why, he was medicated with both Ritalin and Phenobarbital...and was told a very vague reason as to why. H's parents were two extremes, but were both self-centered, had ADHD, poor Executive Function, and both were Adult Children of Alcoholics. H's dad was a rager and abusive....but he avoided the house a lot. H's mom was lazy, over-indulgent and permissive because to do otherwise would be WORK.
Splitting ~ Black White thinking
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
Their feelings about others often shift from positive to negative after a disappointment, a perceived threat of losing someone, or a perceived loss of esteem in the eyes of someone they value.
This phenomenon, sometimes called splitting or black-and-white thinking, includes a shift from idealizing others (feeling admiration and love) to devaluing them (feeling anger or dislike).[28]
>>>>
I have spent my entire marriage in this nightmare of Splitting. Either I'm the worlds-best wife, on a pedestal, the smartest woman in the world.....or I'm Attila the Hun, evil, the worse wife/mother, liar, etc.
People who have BPD or NPD (and perhaps a couple other Axis II PDs) engage in Splitting. They group people into Black category (bad) or White category (good). And their reasons for placing people are often based on paranoia, narrow-thinking, emotion, illogic, and immaturity.
It all depends on whether I've been "split black" or "split white".....and the change can happen in seconds. Right now, I've been "split black" and H says I'm the worst wife ever. He has sent me the most horrific hate texts, insists that he's divorcing me (of course he says this on a weekly basis), etc.
One thing that is very typical is for those with NPD or BPD to do is: If you have done something innocent, the BPD/NPD person will conclude that you did it for "bad reasons". If you're late coming home, they will conclude that you had an affair (even if you have NO HISTORY of being unfaithful). If you forgot to pick up something at the store that they wanted, they will accuse you of trying to hurt them or that you don't love them....even if it was just an innocent mistake.
My kids (being typical kids) would occasionally leave empty soda cans and food wrappers on the desk by the home computer. H would say, "they're only doing that so that I won't want to use the computer." lol. I would tell him, "no, they''re doing that because they're silly teenagers. They aren't even thinking about you at all. Their minds are on homework or friends. It's not all about YOU. They're not thinking about YOU. " It is silly to think that teens are thinking, "hmmm, I'm going to leave my cans and wrappers here so dad won't want to use the computer." Actually, what kids are more LIKELY thinking is, "hmmm....I know mom will clean this up for me." lol
Once you're "split black" it can take days/weeks/months for you to get back in the White category....and sometimes a person is never back in the White category.
The longest I was in the Black category was a few months, but H wasn't around me, and he had his idiot family cheering him on. Now that his family is "on to him," they are ignoring him, so he doesn't have that support system. as my sister (a therapist) has repeatedly told me, "your H needs you a LOT more than you need him, so always keep that in mind." Those words ring in my head all the time when H is at his worst. And, she's right. Without his silly family to use a crutch, H "folds like a cheap tent" within a day or two.
This time, I'm going to take a different strategy. H keeps painting me Black because he keeps blaming me for an incident between our adult child and him. H was WRONG in that incident, but he thinks I should "be on his side" because I'm his wife. H thinks I should disown our son....no way will that happen. I'll choose my kids over H any day of the week. My kids are angels....sweet, helpful, and I absolutely love them to the moon and back.
Anyway.....for nearly 3 years, H has been "hitting me over the head" with this incident.....at least once a week. I'm sick of it. So, when he wants to make up, I'm going to say, "it's me or the incident". "You have to choose. You have let that one incident become more important than me, your marriage, and your children." "if you pick "the incident", then understand that you will not have me, and you'll lose both of our kids." (neither of our kids like their dad, and even the one that H isn't mad at won't spend time with H without me around.) "if you pick me, then you will "bury that incident" and never speak of it again....ever....in any context. It will be erased like it never happened." I can't live this way. No one should live this way.
H's T has no idea that he's doing this to me. of course, he is not telling her. She would be appalled.
Awareness
Submitted by Light on
I think this site could do more to relay the personality issues that often coincide with the ADD issues. Right now I think there is this sense of "they have ADHD, it's like diabetes, they can't help it," but that only pertains to the absent-minded qualities, not to the abusive and paranoid behaviors which have to do with personality. It may have been a personality that developed in response to growing up with ADD in a certain environment, but that is how all of our personalities come to be: in response to our nature within our circumstances. Every abuser probably has a reason for his behavior, whether related to ADD or otherwise, but that doesn't mean anyone is obligated to put up with abuse. Also I am not trying to say ADD = abusive, I am actually trying to draw a distinction between the two because I feel like these things become conflated here. It is two different questions between "Am I willing to work with his ADD?" vs. "Am I willing to endure abuse and constantly walk on eggshells?" The treatments, prognosis, and expected quality of life for both are quite different.
Personality disorders are notoriously difficult to treat because we are taking about changing someone's WHOLE PERSONALITY. The word "disorder" here is almost misleading. Plus this kind of personality disorder (BPD) has safeguards built in to defend itself (blaming others, inability to be introspective, avoiding criticism at all costs, responding to criticism in only the most non-productive of ways, etc.).
In the case of my husband, he was never as far gone as a lot of the stories I've read here. His asset is that he is willing to acknowledge that he has issues and would have a better life if he could turn some things around. Or at least on a surface level he accepts this, which seems more than a lot of folks seem wont to do. I still have yet to see where this goes, but I can report that after getting on some decent medication, for depression/anxiety as well as ADD, in addition to migraine medication, a lot of the irritability and outrageous arguments has ceased. There is much less walking on eggshells - not to say ridiculous events do not still occur from time to time. I definitely would not want to return to life before the meds and I know he would not like that either. He is also in therapy, and while I have grown to be a bit skeptical of talk therapy, I am glad that this problem is being addressed on both sides.
I agree with everything you wrote...
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I am starting to think that ADHD is like a spectrum.....first showing signs as children, but then worsening with age/issues, depending on extent and parenting.....and then the PDs are identified.
I'm not saying that all of ADHD people have PDs, but I bet the reverse is true.
Reading up on BPD after this
Submitted by kathy1208 on
Reading up on BPD after this post, there are some cardinal traits of a BPD person that my husband has 100%, but about half of them I'd say he doesn't at all. Granted i dont know that you have to have all the traits to have BPD.
I think his inability to see things as grey areas (i love him or hate him, it cant be that i love him and just get frustrated at our differences on occasion), or if i doubt something he says, it's me saying he is "stupid", etc. His ability to turn everything into black and white is an impediment for him. He's turned many minor disagreements into huge blowouts where you'd think I was abusive and attacking everything about him. One time I asked him to take the trash out bc when i pulled it out of the trash can, it was particularly heavy. It sat there for days. When i brought it up, he said he took a stand bc i was "telling him what to do" and it was me just "trying to wield power over him just to see if i could," and that when he lifted it it didnt seem heavy so i most certainly was doing that. I told him he was putting too much thought it, i am 120 pounds and it felt heavy to me, and I just wanted a little help from my husband. Its like if he is asked to do something, and he does it, instead of getting that "I am happy to help the person I love and they are grateful for my help" (thats how i feel) he thinks that the dyanmic will be "I gave in and she felt smug and pleased to have 'won' that small power battle." Thats the explanation I have come up with for the way he would react to such a simple request. Knowing his dad and the dynamic they had growing up, I can see why he may have that knee jerk reaction to someone asking him to do something. he was always forced to do things in a negative light, never taught how to want to help people. I always have to try and work hard to remind him that im not out to get him or secretly laugh to myself that i got him to "bend to my will." He is a truly loving guy, and anytime he acts otherwise, I can see clear as day it springs from a distrust in MY motives, borne out of something beyond anything ive ever done to deserve that attitude projected on me,.
His mom also said he was chubby until he was 15 and got bullied a lot. Between that and his dad, I think that it's a lot for him to overcome in relationships (like ours) that are important and thus where this is a lot at stake. he may be almost 31 but sometimes i get the sense that he feels pain from his childhood like it happened yesterday.
I have also heard him describe himself in many contexts like someone who is "outside looking in" on particular groups of people, and him expressing a deep disappointment over this. I have often felt like i am on the outside looking in, but whenever i have felt that way, i saw it as a blessing, and was at peace with that. I dont feel the need to belong with many people while he is deeply affected by what people think of him and his place in the world - at least in groups of men. This may also go back to getting picked on.
I dunno. it's a shame bc i think therapy would do WONDERS for him, but he wont go. I just have to learn to stay strong and rise above this stuff, even though sometimes it just makes me disappointed or frustrated.
A person does NOT have to have all the BPD traits...
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Which ones do you think your H has?
Which ones do you think he doesn't.
BTW...rarely will anyone ever have all or even nearly all of a disorders' traits...
As OverwhelmedWife said, he
Submitted by Light on
As OverwhelmedWife said, he does not need to have all the traits in order to qualify for the diagnosis, but in any case I only provided the BPD description as an introduction to the idea of a personality disorder. A lot of ADDers I know seem to have a specific brand of personality disorder unique to their ADD, like a hybrid between BPD and passive aggressive personality disorder (which no longer exists as an official diagnosis, but still applies). Maybe one day the doctors will officially group all these characteristics under their own label as well, but with or without the official label this is about concrete personality issues that he needs to work through and not just ADD. I guess it is up to everyone what he or she wants to deal with in a relationship, but I feel at times like this place winds up gaslighting partners into putting up with abuse by bundling it within the more innocuous and sympathetic ADD label. It's one of the reasons I haven't been back here in a long time, but I thought maybe it would help to share this point of view.
There is a LOT of crossover between PDs.
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
A lot of ADDers I know seem to have a specific brand of personality disorder unique to their ADD, like a hybrid between BPD and passive aggressive personality disorder (which no longer exists as an official diagnosis, but still applies).
>>>
There are 3 clusters of PDs. Each cluster has similar traits, but all or nearly all the PDs seem to share a few traits with one or all PDs.
My sister who is a clinical therapist says that she and her associates often don't even bother identifying WHICH PD, they'll just indicate: Axis II. They may put down a particular PD as a "working Dx" if that PD seems to be coming thru Loud and Clear, but since so many people with PDs also have other PDs or other issues, it can be hard to nail down the right one. .....especially if the patient isn't honest with the T.
For instance, Dependent PD has several similar traits as Borderline PD. But, two big differences are typically the raging and splitting,
When H was in rehab, he saw a psychiatrist, who never saw/met me. All the P had to go by was what H told her. H told her that he was "the nicest guy in the world, and always wanting to please his wife," And of course, "my wife is a control freak and has to have her own way all the time." "I just go along with whatever my wife wants all the time."
Yes, it is TRUE that H lets me make many decisions. H WANTS it that way because he doesn't want to take the time to figure things out. He doesn't want to plan a vacation....too much work. He doesn't want to pick out a couch....he doesn't want to be in the furniture store! He doesn't' want to pick ou paint colors, because he'd rather be watching TV than be looking at paint samples. I have told H many times...."When you say that you want ME to make the decision about something, then YOU ARE MAKING a decision!"
The P had no idea that H has a long history of getting into physical fights ....H was expelled from TWO schools, and suspended numerous times. The P had no idea that H is a total hothead, breaks things in anger, throws things in anger, etc.
So, after about 8 weeks of seeing H, the P puts down: Axis II DPD. UGh. My sister laughed at that because she has seen H get out of control and raging. My sister explained that there are many crossover traits between DPD and BPD, so H likely displayed some of those, and since the P was unaware of H's temper, she wrongly Dx'd him. .....but the fact that he was Axis II came thru loud and clear.