how to let it go??

So unlike Elsa, I am not able to "let it go".  I have been through years of therapy--alone and together with DH--and all I feel is cheated out of 22 years of my life.  I look at photos of me with my boys when they were little and I can barely remember that person, the person that loved her sons with abandon, told her husband he was the man of her dreams and happily did whatever needed to be done without complaint.  Now...I am a bitter, angry, tired, overweight, jaded 47 year old.  I have had enough therapy to know that what you tell yourself becomes reality, that it's all a matter of perspective, that I can break the endless script of failure in my head...but I just can't seem to.  My oldest son will be 18 in May and graduates from high school on June 4.  We have no college money saved for him.  None.  He was accepted at Indiana University and wants to go very badly.  It's $45,000 a year.  That is more than my salary in a year.  So I failed in saving for college.  And his brother (age 16) wants to go to University of Illinois (we are in Chicago, so that will be cheaper).  Oldest son was in rehab for 6 weeks last year.  So I failed in communicating that we don't do drugs.  In fact my father was a violent alcoholic who killed himself when I was six and my son knows that and still chose to drink and take drugs.  My faith is really important to me--I teach in a Catholic school and go to church every week.  We took the boys to church for years.  Now it's like pulling teeth to get them to come with me.  Hubby doesn't go any more either.  So another thing that was important to me for our family down the drain.  We are vegetarians--I have been since high school, and the boys and DH are too.  At least I thought DH was-there were receipts from several business trips on the desk and come to find out he has been eating meat for about the past year.  So another shared value I thought we had, we don't and he doesn't even know that I know this about him.  Grades in high school--don't get me started-both of my boys have IQs that there is no name for, but they have gotten Ds on their report cards and it does not phase them at all.  I am a teacher for crying out loud, we value education.  How did they not get that??  Fidelity and honesty in marriage--there have been three other women that I know of and DH lies like he breathes, so those two values are out the window too.

 Now, let me be clear--I do not want to raise clone children, but some of these basic values I had hoped to impart to my kids--faith and education are pretty important to me.  I cannot decide if I have just matured and changed and I am making more of all of this than needs to be, that life is just messy and kids have to mess around and fail a few times before they sort themselves out.  It could be a midlife crisis of my own, I don't know, but I can't seem to stop cataloguing all of the failures I just listed in my head.  I can't seem to stop the loop that is running in my head.  I do a pretty good job of keeping this all to myself, but it's always running in my head.  I take anti-anxiety medicine and I have an appointment with my doc next week.  It's possible I need a new/different med because I just cannot stop the loop in my head that says I made a lousy choice in a life partner 22 years ago and so me and the kids are paying the price.  It's exhausting.  How do I let it go.  What can I say to myself??

Live and Let live DV....

Letting it go...I may not can say anything here to help...But I can't help but encourage you...I've just been there myself and if nothing else I want to say I understand and care....

I would like to address a few things you say here....College??...You know, me and my first wife (the girls Mother) we're just working stiffs. So our girls had to understand that they would have to go to college on student loans...And pay them off after they finished school and was employed...I never took on unrealistic expectations or guilt trips about that...They had a room w/ a warm bed, clothes, food, the best used car's we could afford once they turned 16...And they had parents that loved them and taught them about the love of Jesus...Some times we have to set our young men and daughters down and speak truth (reality) to them...Young minds especially these days are surrounded with friends w/ entitlement issues...As you know, it is very prevalent in society...I suggest you not beat yourself up. Your family is blessed to have someone as faithful and cares as you do...

You mentioned the importance of your faith...Same here...Without my relationship with the Father I could not face each new day with any positive energy and thankfulness...And I think your faith is what is going to help you redirect your focus..."So you can let it go"

I was saddled w/ anger, bitterness and blame for way to long....It took us living a part for almost a year for me to just work on own messed up mental and emotional state....I could not even set down w/ a  counselor or a brother in Christ or anyone and discuss it w/o getting full of anxiety...I would just go on and on, about her life style...It was my whole focus and it had taken my life from me..."I couldn't let it go"....And I could not even see what it was doing to me until my heart started jumping around...And the doctor told me that it was not a physical medical issue!...I was a mental case....

You know you made the statement here about 3 women you know of....Well I've never had to deal with that with my W...I do know what scripture says about being abandoned by an unbelieving spouse....And what it say's about fornication and adultery...I'm not saying if it happened and she asked me to forgive her...I wouldn't try... But I wouldn't feel bound by my vows to stay any longer if there was unfaithfulness...I think if I couldn't forgive her I would just slip out of the picture...I think...It's hard to answer the what if questions....

I will say this about my choice of a partner...I think I got ahead of the Father....I had had a wife since I was 20...So at 50 I was wanting another wife....So patients and waiting on the Lord to lead me to the right one, or one at all, wasn't in my spiritual maturity level at the time....She is a sweet person, and has many friends...But the life she has lived to this point is just not conducive to taking on the responsibilities of a H. I could see it early on, but, because I feel marriage is a life time commitment, I refused to consider moving on...Thus; all the work, and self-awareness I've had to do to get to where I can accept her living of life without being a victim and not losing myself again....

I wish so much peace for you!




Please add this thought to what you tell yourself: Your sons are young - young men, stepping along into the men they want to be. A crookedy path, sometimes.

There's the strong posibility that they will, further along their roads, tell you, something like, "I thought about what to do, and I thought of you - and I did what you would... I love you, Mom."

Just keep that in a back pocket of your mind, okay? 'Cause you might have to wait a bit, before you get that sweet moment, but you can know, ahead of time, that whether they say it or not, chances are they'll be thinking it....

Please put that exhaustingly heavy boulder of criticizing yourself down on the side of your own path - you *do* deserve to be kind to yourself, same as everyone else. (Love others *as* yourself is a palindrome message: reads the same as love yourself *as* you love others - you know?)


dvance, the self loathing

I understand what you're saying about the "loop" in your head. That's something I've done the past few years, and especially the last 2. I've gotten better recently, but the loop is still partially there. I had developed such self loathing because of seeming everything going wrong. It didn't seem like much of anything at all, went right. This isn't self pity, this is REAL LIFE.

    We didn't know about my husband's ADHD for the first 23 years or so, so it was chaos on top of chaos. The diagnosis has helped, but he only takes the meds, he doesn't do behavior therapy. I"ve read tons of stuff and watched videos and had some counseling on ADHD, but H doesn't believe the ADHD has that much affect on our (or any) relationship, which is a big problem.

     When he started his affair, I was torn apart, on top of all the rest of the chaos that had ensued. With him NOT willing to address it at all, and not even looking into WHY he had an affair, or what WE could do to not have it happen again, I went crazy. I was SO ANGRY at myself for choosing this person. I felt so ugly, and unwanted and unloved, that I couldn't even look in a mirror any longer. (the truth) I would brush my hair and teeth without looking at the mirror, or as little as possible. I HATED this person that my husband "rejected". I kept asking "What's wrong with me?" "I didn't mistreat him, in fact I've loved him a LOT, and SHOWN him how much I loved him, and the question was agonizing, WHY did he DO this?" And, why keep trying to sweep it under the rug, because HE didn't want to feel "the bad and or guilty feelings", but put the weight of it all back on me to "deal" with the affair, and then on top of it, handle the healing of it myself. (with no help from him)

     I had been rejected by my parents and grandparents growing up, and was tossed around, adopted, and told I wasn't wanted by all 6 parents. (biological, step parents, and adoptive parents) What are the odds of 6 parents NOT wanting you as a child? pretty slim I think. But, that's the way it was. None of my parents wanted my siblings or myself, and we were told that on a regular basis, and shown that in various ways. And of course there was physical and sexual abuse involved, which is typical for unwanted children, as well as emotional abuse. Our parents were all people who never dealt with ANY of their own issues, or learned how to live and be happy in a marriage. They were ALL miserable, and took it out on the children they had. They all went on with their own lives, for their own happiness.  I got counseling for my growing up years, and thought I was pretty okay later on. But, then I chose my husband as a spouse, and replaced my parents with another person who "acted like he didn't want me". THIS WAS A HARD PILL AND REALITY TO DEAL WITH AND SWALLOW. It made me hate myself even more. While I was trying to figure it all out, it was like this "loop" in my head kept saying, "See, NO ONE wants you, even the man who VOWED and PROMISED to love and cherish you before God, didn't want you". And, that made it real. 

     I truly believed in love, and believed that enough love could heal anything. (it can't) God's love can, our love can't. I've learned this:  If people don't want you and/or can't deal with their OWN issues, they won't face themselves or who THEY are, and either blame you, or take it out on you for their own failings. And they do. I didn't want to believe that either, but it's real. You can't change ANYONE, but yourself. And, no I still don't like the person I've become from all these years with my husband. I liked myself better BEFORE I married him,  (and in the first few years) But, after that, it seriously took it's toll. Questions, so many questions, that never get answered, and never get resolved. And, for ME, it's still hard for me to mentally wrap my head around this "mental thing" of ADHD. What is the condition, and what is just him being either passive-aggressive, ODD (definitely) and or just stubborn?

    I've got a LONG WAY TO GO, as you can tell.

Self loathing 2

This has been on my mind too the last few days.  I really did like myself before I was married and now, I don't like who I have become.  I hate myself after trying to love a person who did not love me... And I feel stupid for not realizing (accepting his actions) that he did not love me.   I hear you.  It is my story too.  I learned somewhere along the line, right or wrong, that if I worked and loved and sacrificed and would be OK and I could be proud of myself.  Just the opposite happened.  I feel like I need to figure this out for my children so that they can be happy.  But I feel like there is a great big mystery that has not been revealed to me that has me dumbfounded on what actions to take to make life better for me and my children and grandchildren. 

Fake News

This is happening at our house.   H communicates as tho he is running in a political campaign of "False Promises, Truth Manipulations, Vengance, I Said - she said, and Bullish Determinations ".  I believe he observes our marriage totally different than I do.  It had become hard to know my own truths.  It is like he thinks, "I won't and say I did" and "If no one catches me, I didn't do it."  Integrity is missing in our marriage.  Trust is missing.  As a loud, cussing, traveling salesman, he won the arguments and I ended up in introspection after our conversations.   Now that we are semi-retired, and I contest his bluster, he doesn't like that and he looks and talks to me with scorn - as punishment for daring to have my own opinions. Any attempt at talking ends up in a fight. When he talks to others, he assumes a totally different personae of humble goofball - good time boy. I have been the opponent in his mind's story.  He was my partner and a difficult object of love in my mind's story.  Our stories and attitudes toward marriage are so different.  We are not on the same page.  'just trying to clear my head and accept my life this morning.

Your short post Jenna is the story of most all of our lives....

There is nothing that can be said out of reason to a person who refuses or has no ability to reason....So to lose an argument to that person will always be the reality....Because there isn't any other outcome possible for them as long as they live in a defiant mind (any of us)......The miracle of healing and change (humility and Self-awareness)....Separate one's self from the person....Death....These are the 3 things that can end the dysfunction in communication where reason is replaced with defiance....



On a planet by myself

I am reflecting on conversations I have had with my friends.  Sometimes, when I say things to friends or family members about some strange or rude behaviors of H, they respond with "He must be depressed."   ????   Like I said this weekend to my good friend, "H doesn't like to go out and do things with me or anyone else.  He likes to sit in his garage and smoke and drink and do crosswords."  .....response from friend...."He sounds depressed."   ??????  He sounds like an antisocial alcoholic to me. My words are turned into uncaring and thoughtlessness. And I, who have tried for 40 years to keep him involved, given him children, understanding, forgiveness, made him a home, financed the home for part of the time, stayed at home keeping the home fires burning while he was out (as a young salesman with no  home office).  How can a good friend of mine say to me, "HE sounds depressed."   It totally puts the onus of his sitting on his ass on to me....the spouse who is letting him down by letting him be depressed and not doing anything about it.   AND  why not respond with, "That must be lonely and depressing (to ME)."?  It just seems that if a person has any kind of problem, then the one who is mentioning the problem, questioning the problem, uncovering the the person who IS the problem.  Ugh.    It's like "Kill the messenger".

I realize that I am internalizing and taking a comment personally that I don't need to and shouldn't BUT I am so tired of feeling and seeming like the bad guy for HIS lacking and failures.   Sure, it is in my own head, but after all these years it is my fault (in my head and in friends' and family's minds) that since I put up with this so long, it IS my doing and I am adrift from my own ability to endure and forgive.  I SHOULD have been fighting and drawing boundaries is the new attainment for females today.  In my old days it was I SHOULD support and serve and be demure, and not judge, and forgive and be kind.  Ugh.

I am on a planet by myself in my life.  That is why I come here to see other aliens whose circumstances are similar.  I so want to connect. H so wants to be left alone.

Jenna, comments made me cry

When I read your first comment "Self loathing 2", I burst into tears. There's someone else who understands and gets this, and knows this, and I'm sorry you're hurting also. Sometimes I do think there is a difference when you are an 'older woman" (and I use that phrase kindly, since I am older, lol) and we grew up somewhat different than woman are taught today. Today's women are taught to stand up and be counted and be a person in their own right, when that wasn't the case years ago.  The church (for those who went to church) was also a place that preached that 'Women should know their place", in a submissive almost repressive role.  And, being a musician I went to a LOT of churches where I heard this, and the people seriously took this to heart.


 "I realize that I am internalizing and taking a comment personally that I don't need to and shouldn't BUT I am so tired of feeling and seeming like the bad guy for HIS lacking and failures.   Sure, it is in my own head, but after all these years it is my fault (in my head and in friends' and family's minds) that since I put up with this so long, it IS my doing and I am adrift from my own ability to endure and forgive.  I SHOULD have been fighting and drawing boundaries is the new attainment for females today.  In my old days it was I SHOULD support and serve and be demure, and not judge, and forgive and be kind."

     This paragraph also spoke to me in the same way, about us as women and our "place". It's difficult re-learning the lessons that were so engrained in us for so many years. Also, in my case, where my husband has been the major wage earner, has made it more difficult.  I am a musician, which has never earned me much of a "living", even though I had full time employment as church organists/pianists, community accompanists, school accompanist, and theater accompanying, voice accompanying, along with multiple "side jobs". So, my husband with his Phd, became the major earner. He also felt it entitled him to make decisions without my input, regardless if it was for BOTH our benefit or not. If he wanted it, he got it, if he wanted to go somewhere, he went, and spent money on whatever he felt HE needed.

     The largest expendeture was computer equipment he got so he could "break into" the movie music industry.  He is a musician also, percussionist.  He got a job with a friend of his doing the music for a movie that was supposed to be sold, and his fee would be 20K for the job. But, he spent over 15K buying computer equipment so he could do the work ON this movie. Programs, monitors, speakers, wires, computer music programs, etc. and even I though I questioned him on this, he was SURE this was going to pan out. He spent several more thousand, which I KNOW took the total over 20K, but he wouldn't tell me the details. Anyway, the movie finally got finished, but it never sold, and still hasn't to this day. The main thing, is that it took over 10 YEARS,  of HIS and OUR lives, of him working every night, weekend and holiday on this movie, knowing that this was going to make him "famous and hopefully wealthy". And it would be worth it all.  He spend 10 years on this project, which I find astounding, because he usually quits on things before they are finished. But, that's how much he wanted this. It hurts to know that if he had spent even a short amount of that time, with me and US, that we would be in much better shape today.

     I tried many times trying to talk with him about this, because so many things just didn't add up, and when year after year passed with no end in sight, it became between him and I.  I told him LOVINGLY, that more than anything, I hoped this would work out for him, but in case it didn't, we needed a backup plan. But, he rejected any and all input from me on this. I wasn't trying to STOP him from chasing his dream, in fact I really hoped it WOULD have worked. But, my gut told me, that it wasn't going to go anywhere, which sadly turned out to be true.

     We now are close to retirement age, and have NO retirement. He spent a lot of our money on computer equipment, that now is either broken, discarded or in a closet somewhere unused.  HIs current job is in jeopardy, because he blames it's failings on the college and the students, when his own attitude needs some serious adjustment.  I know his bosses can see his negative outlook. And, again, THIS job was one of the jobs he took that I questioned. It was against my better judgement, for HIM. I knew it wasn't the right place for him, and his capabilities. This also turned out to be correct, since I helped him search for his jobs. I found many good jobs that would have put him in good schools, and in places where he could really use his talents, and excell with the students, which is what he said he wanted. So, I researched this college, the town, the surrounding "feeder" schools, demographics, median incomes, etc., and this was a college in the middle of a poverty stricken area. Now, the school is in serious decline and is struggling to keep their heads above water.

     I've often wondered about ODD....oppositional defiance disorder. Being defiant, just to BE defiant, either with authority, or family, or whomever. It does fit in this case. He can be TWO PEOPLE, like jennalemone said her husband can be. He can be one guy who is the life of the party, and people think he's just "the greatest", then at home, be someone who doesn't want to be around the ones he says "he loves". (interesting). It makes me wonder why these men bother to get married, and why choose someone if they don't really intend on "living it", or making their lives better? 

     Anyway, Jenna, I also like what you said about being an "alien", on an alien planet. Yep, it does feel like that. Like we are some weird character in our own drama, trying to figure out the PLOT of the entire story, but can never really figure it out, let alone PLAN a new direction to take it.  I'm now 61, and it's definitely harder at THIS age, to start over, because physically I"m a whole lot weaker than I used to be.  Thank you for everything you said.

     Also, thank you C, for your encouraging post about moving ahead and being on a path of healing. I truly needed that encouragement. thank you.

I liked myself so much before

I liked myself so much before I was married. I was eating well, swimming, keeping my home nice, car hoovered etc etc. Just the basic normal stuff.

Now?? Chaos!

So my physical appearance is going downhill and now he's started the flirting outside, looking at women, speaking on the phone like they are children. Giggling and encouraging and all in front of me.

im so so so sad. 

You are on the Healing Road Dede.....Never Doubt it :)

(I truly believed in love, and believed that enough love could heal anything. (it can't) God's love can, our love can't.)

Dede I was abandoned by my Father at age 5, I was molested repeatedly by a friends Mother in her 30's as a young teenager. My first wife was a rape victim who hide it (blacked it out for years) and pushed me away until my affair started (not her fault, I should have been stronger, but Sin begats Sin)...So my life by the time I was 27 was a Fog of Sin, Baggage and Insecurities...When that is our realities, and sadly it is the reality of many in this fallen world, then we usually turn to people to help us....But for me, I found out (and am still experiencing it today) the only real help comes through one source....He can and will take away our Sin, our fears, our baggage, our insecurities...And replace them w/ his Spirit...A spirit of Love, Power and a Sound Mind!..Yes there is healing when we go to the source of all Life!

(He does use people to love us in his name and speak truth to us, there has been many who has loved me!)


Bitterness getting the best of you

We tell ourselves a story when we get married that goes something like this:  We will have a happy, engageed marriage. We will raise successful and engaged children.  We will share our joys and interests and be happy.  The life gets in the way.  

What concerns me most about what you write is that by carrying around the pain and dwelling in a place of regret you may/will become bitter (if you aren't already) and that keeps you from creating a better life for yourself.  The bitterness pervades everything, including all of your relationships.  Your life feels unfulfilling and then dropping into bitterness adds to that lack of fulfilment.

Further, you are taking on responsibility for things that are not yours.  As any parent of a really great kid who has died from a heroin overdose can tell you, no matter how much you wish it, you often cannot change the trajectory that your children choose.  You can't sit in the classroom and 'make' them pay attention, or force them to bring their homework in.  Or choose their friends.  They are unique individuals, and have a will of their own that they must exercise if they are to grow up.  Same thing with religion.  While it is a disappointment that your husband is not joining you at church, that is his decision to make.  If your husband decides to eat meat, that is his choice.

What I'm trying to say is these are not YOUR failures!  There is not part of the job description of wife and mother that says you are responsible for the life choices of anyone other than you.  In fact, you don't GET to make those choices.  You can't - they aren't yours.  Therefore, these are not YOUR failures.

What IS yours is how you choose to live your own life.  Will you bury yourself in self-loathing or seek gratitude and the positive (for there ARE positives in every life if you seek them.)  Will you set your own long term goals, and create a plan to meet them, or will you stay stuck in regret for the past?  I don't say this to be cruel and I'm not being judgmental at all - I'm only trying to lay out different choices for you - and you DO get to make these choices for they ARE yours to make.  How will you relate to those sons?  As if they disappoint you?  Or with the unbounded love you once felt, understanding that we are all human?  How will you deal with your regret about your choice of a life partner - by getting stuck in it and beating yourself up, or by saying "I did the best I could do at the, what do I do based upon where I am today?"

There was a time in my own life when I was bitter and angry...when I didn't like myself at all.  So I've been to a place that is similar to where you are now.  The only way out of it is to not ALLOW yourself to wallow in it and force yourself to find what you want.  But please DO stop blaming yourself for stuff that has very little to do with you.

P.S. about that college.  There is not that much correlation between the price of a college and its benefit...but there is a HUGE correlation between student debt after college and stressful lives.  Have a talk with your son about how you cannot afford to send him to a $45,000 college and that he will need to choose an in-state option that will be affordable.  If needed, show him what it will look like to try to pay back a $200K loan (monthly payments on loan, plus rent vs. salary coming out of college...)  It will not be the end of the world, and will model living within one's means...a good thing.  In my opinion, there is no shame in realistically making a smart decision - and IL has lots of great colleges, too.  So, again, this is an opportunity to see the positives, not the negatives.  LOTS and LOTS of kids face this same choice.

Thank you, Melissa.  Your

Thank you, Melissa.  Your response is helpful.  I do think, though, that there are a lot of people (including some therapists) who think it's the job of the spouse who doesn't have ADHD to fix the spouse who does or that it's the job of the spouse who isn't being treated for depression to fix the spouse who is being treated for depression.  

they would be wrong

You are no more responsible for 'fixing' your partner's depression than you are for making sure your partner is happy.  You can (and should) care about, and be empathetic to, your partner's joys and sorrows.  But empathy, being respectful, and supporting a partner are FAR different from being responsible for solving someone else's problems.  Any therapist who tells you otherwise should be dropped.  (And few reputable therapists would tell you that, BTW.)

Let the storm clouds roll

"There was a time in my own life when I was bitter and angry...when I didn't like myself at all.  So I've been to a place that is similar to where you are now."        and           "Your life feels unfulfilling and then dropping into bitterness adds to that lack of fulfilment."    and    ..."you DO get to make these choices for they ARE yours to make."       Melissa

Yes, I realize I must not allow myself to go to that place of self-pity or anger or bitterness or resentment.  I realize it is a habit and a tool against the pain of events in my past although I am now still not aware of what those operant conditioning events were.  How does a person (how did you) change the habit of resentment to a healthier habit of gratitude and faith? I have tried prayer, giving myself positive reinforcement, learning and reading, conversing with others, coming here to share my pain. I am becoming more and more resentful and self blaming than ever as I age and don't want anger to be my legacy.

I feel like one of Pavlov's dogs or a rat in a maze who has been conditioned to expect disappointment and I am somewhat paralyzed and unable to change my own brain.  I am like the rats in boiling water who didn't realize the heat was being turned up slowly so they didn't realize that the boiling water was killing them.

How did you do it? How did you change the insides of yourself to LET GO?  I can say along with dvance that I try to just "LET IT GO" but it has become part of my makeup now to go to that place and stew trying to identify and correct my negative thoughts.

Where do I find the "permission" to declare to myself and the world that, "I did the best I could do at the, what do I do based upon where I am today?"  When somewhere along the lines of my life I must have been trained to NOT declare myself strong enough or brave enough or worthy to cut myself a big slice of destiny and well-being?   

I am guessing I was trained by parents, teachers, culture and then I was ripe with the willingness to be trained by H to be a servant girl rather than an adult woman with courage and fortitude to give to my own convictions.  I have "not been allowed" (via punishments, rejections, name-calling, fear-mongering, threats, fear) and now don't allow myself to claim my own worthiness of love and self respect.

How did you LET IT GO?

OK I am today Googling How to overcome past conditioning and form a new mindset.  Trying to learn and grow and say and believe that "I did the best that I could at the time" and to allow myself  to make an individual plan of action for "what to do based upon where I am today".

Or maybe it is just my biology that I hold on to anger and bitterness, I don't know.  I know that I am trying very hard to be a different person than I have been (stronger) without much success.

How to move away from bitterness

There were three things that I did to move away from bitterness and cut myself a break:

  • started a gratitude journal.  At the end of every day I sat down and focused on three things for which I was grateful (I still do this today sometimes)/.  These are simple sentences that start with "I am grateful for..."  I then spend a few minutes enveioped in my feelings of gratitude and ENJOYING it.  These things can be as simple as "I am grateful for the comforting sound of the rain on the roof" or as complicated as "I am grateful that I was able to have a day without anger today."  Lots and lots of research suggests that you can 'rewire' your brain to the positive by focusing on gratitude
  • mindfully living my life forward - in my seminar I call it creating an 'intentional relationship' - and by that I mean looking at where I want to be, and starting to act that way.  This is a willful shift in position and attitude which behavioral research suggests moves you closer to your goals (see the work of Daniel Kahneman, among others).  People do this a number of ways.  One is by building a mindfulness practice, in which you can start to identify feelings, observe them, and (most importantly) let them go by you, rather than connect with them.  My own approach was simply to focus concertedly on where I wanted to be mentally, rather than where I was, and move myself in that direction.  As you describe your situation, I think actually setting up a mindfulness practice might be the best approach for you.
  • I took responsibility ONLY for myself.  For years I thought that I was responsible for making things happen a certain way in my marriage and family.  In order to let things go I had to accept that I have ZERO control over what others do or think.  I learned that I am responsible only for my own behavior.  I COULDN'T control my husband's behaviors towards me in the past...and I responded exactly as everyone else does in the same situation (hence why so many people ask me if I have been sitting in their living rooms when they read my first book!)  It's hard to blame yourself or stay mired in resentment when you really, deep down, understand that you had very little control over the situation.

Once you've done those things, then the question is this - NOW WHAT?  And that's the turning point, I think.  Because it's one of those forks in the road things - you can choose to BUILD something new and wonderful for yourself (and hope your partner joins you) or you can choose to stay STUCK in the past...which is what resentment and bitterness are.  I chose the former.

Hope this helps.

P.S.  When you go back to revisit your negative thoughts in order to let them go, what you really are doing is giving power to those thoughts by engaging with them.  Instead, focus on the positive place you want to end up.

Melissa, a few extras. This

Melissa, a few extras. This is a good post and good suggestions for everyone. The gratitude thinking is something I"ve done most of my life. I've always been grateful for what I have, and for many things (even little tiny things) and grateful for even trials in my life.

    Melissa, I don't think anyone is questioning that you've had success in what you did with your husband, but I DO believe there are husbands (and wives) who regardless of WHAT the non-ADHD spouse does or becomes, will never be a responsive, loving spouse. Like you said, "You can't change anyone but yourself".

     I haven't been trying to change my husband, but I would like to be loved. We are married, and are in a marriage, and he stopped doing the love things for me, but still expects  it from me. It is terribly hard to live in a marriage by yourself, and know deep in your gut that it's most likely going to stay that way. No one gets married to be married by themselves, but sadly many of us have ended up this way. And it seems like you're telling us that regardless if you stay married and are alone, be happy with that, and that's okay. I'm sorry, I just don't find that okay. I could be way off base here, and wrong about this, and if I am you can set me straight on this.

    Also, many of our husbands cheated on us with other women, and that alone, even without the ADHD, is a devastating thing to go through, which is a subject that is really not even talked about much, here on this forum. When women who are gang raped say that their husband's infidelity to them was worse than their gang rape, that is a serious issue, and causes tremendous hurt and anguish for the wives. Now, put that along with the ADHD, and there are some serious, serious self esteem issues going on with the wives. (and or husbands, I'm just using wives in this scenario)

      How long can someone live with only giving and not receiving love, respect, caring and not having constant chaos in your house that keeps everyone on edge? In your case, with your success story,  I DO BELIEVE your husband was honestly a good man, who truly loves you, and responded to what you did when you altered your behavior, and your responses to his ADHD issues. I don't think it could happen for everyone. And, like you said, people will be who they are, and some spouses make their own choices, and will never do those positive things in response to anything good the non-ADHD person does. Like some others have said, their spouse even gets angrier and MORE confrontational, when the non-ADHD person gets stronger, and seems to be healthier than them. This is confusing, and seems more like abuse than a condition.


Hold on there!!!

First, let me please respond to a comment you make - that I am suggesting that you should stay in a one-sided marriage and be happy with it.  NOT AT ALL!!!!!  No one, and I include you in this, should stay in a one-sided marriage forever.  I suggest only that couples who are unfamiliar with the ADHD Effect may be happily surprised (even amazed) by the changes they can make once both members of the couple move out of denial and start to 'try differently' i the way that works for couples impacted by ADHD.  If your partner is unwilling to change...disinterested enough in your relationship that he shows no signs of wanting to change...there is nothing you can do about it and you shouldn't ruin your life waiting around for a miracle.  So I hope that clears that misconception up.  :-)  So the short answer to your question about how long can you live with someone who doesn't respect or love you is - you will know in your heart that there is no chance of change...and then, if it is what you want, you should take control of your life and move on.  yes, there was a core of love in our relationship, though it was buried deep for a while.  But we knew it was there and we wanted to find it again.  If you don't have that...not much you can do while you are staying in a relationship that is emotionally damaging to you.

I'm glad you've been doing a gratitude journal - it's really a helpful exercise.

As for affairs - I will be writing more about them soon, and putting up a page dedicated to information about them.  I've been through a few and they are the most intensely painful things I've experienced (and I've experienced a lot!)  They deserve more transparency and discussion.


Melissa, I'm sorry, and thank you

 Melissa I'm sorry that I was callous sounding and off base, so thank you for clearing that up for me. I DO appreciate that, immensely.

I don't think I ever read it in those precise terms before, and I thank you for helping with my misconception so clearly. I am also very glad to hear that there is something coming soon about infidelity. There are many here who's spouses have gone that way, and like you said, it's a devastating thing to go through, and shakes your well being to the core. Infidelity is SO widespread these days, and is taken for granted in Hollywood, and in the media, with it even be "promoted". But, it's effects are so widespread and hurtful to all involved, that it does need more attention than it's getting. But, the media won't talk about it because it almost seems "expected" in today's society. So, I'm SO GLAD you are going to address it here.

    Again, my apologies.


no need to apologize!

Hey - no need to apologize!  But since people look to me as the expert, I want to make sure they don't misconstrue my words.  And there is often lots of subtlety to what I say, so that can be easy to do.

Core of Love....

But we knew it was there and we wanted to find it again....WE:)

This We makes all the difference in the world...

Great advice...

Reality Living!


Exactly what I was looking for. I appreciate this.

Thank you, Melissa. I have read and re-read this.  It makes me feel lighter and free and hopeful.  I know that I need to do some mental exercises over and over to un-do decades of programming/learning that was not good for my well-being.  I will practice these steps and will try to post here with more of accepting the past, appreciating the present and thoughts on a good future.  

This is so helpful. 

I look forward to your words on infidelity.  I've wondered where the actions of strong, forgiving, loving woman stops and where the actions of foolish, weak, hanger-oner begins.  

The question of "Now what?" is something I have been struggling with.

I am listening to Danel Kahneman's Ted Talk right now.

You are correct in that I am

You are correct in that I am letting the bitterness get the best of me.  I read and reread your reply many times.  I 100% agree that I cannot make choices for any other person but myself.  Of course this is true--I would not presume to tell you or my friends or my boss or my coworkers what they should and should not do or expect them to be just like me-that's ridiculous.  But I am not married to any of those people.  It seems to me there are some pretty basic things that hold a marriage together, things that make a marriage different than other relationships.  Things like shared values, shared work, shared worldview, shared religion, shared hobbies--not all of those things are required, but there has to be some amount of overlap or you wouldn't even be friends with the person let alone marry them and try to build a life together.  Here's an example: the husband of a dear church friend just died-he was 52, left behind his wife and two daughters.  They were committed to a few things: travel, family and their church.  How do outsiders know that??  Well, every year they took a big family trip-places like Egypt, Iceland, China--they wanted their daughters to have a big world view, see other kinds of people and lives.  They spent a lot of time together as a family.  And at my church, he ran the food pantry and served on the parish council, she taught in the Sunday School.  So the things that were important, they shared and anyone could see that.  The way my marriage is now, I could not point to one thing we share.  So if after 22 years, we no longer share a faith, disagree on parenting a teenage child following his addiction crisis, don't value our children's education the same way, no longer see a vegetarian diet as part of a larger world view of kindness toward all living creatures, what exactly is holding us together?    A few examples: my older son was told when he got a car (DH's old car) that any parking tickets he got, he was responsible to pay.  DH and I agreed on this.  And yet, since then, DH has paid for several tickets my son has racked up.  When I asked him why, well, he feels bad for him, he didn't do it on purpose, it's a lot of money, blah blah blah.  So if I think it is important that a teen a month away from age 18 and college-bound, take responsibility for his actions and his dad gives him money to get him out of his bad choices, where's the compromise?  That is a pretty basic value that we do not share.  Ditto grades: I used to check both kids grades online and monitor their homework.  A few years ago, DH decided he wanted to do that.  And yet...rarely checked, didn't follow up.  Even this year-the high school senior goes to school all day, has water polo after school until 6pm and then DH takes him out to the gym until 9pm.  When exactly is the child supposed to do his schoolwork?  When I ask DH about this, he shrugs his shoulders and says, well-he told me he was doing it.  But...his grades are terrible and he has many assignments not turned in, so how is that possible?  What if after water polo instead of saying to my son "let's go work out" he said "let's sit here and you get your homework done while I read the paper" something like that.  When I mentioned that, he was unwilling to do that.  My son will not say to his dad "I can't go work out with you, I have to get my homework done".  He idolizes his father, thinks he is a hero who does no wrong, thinks he's cool and I am a bitch that is too hard on his dad (he has told me that), so knowing how my son feels about his dad, I wish DH would use the power he has over him to push him in a positive direction.  Again, I brought this up to DH--I told him, look--you know that DS is not going to turn down the gym with you to do his homework, so what if YOU said, in the evenings, listen son--it's really more important that you finish your senior year of high school with solid grades than it is that we bulk up together (I'm being a little snarky here...), so I will hang out with you and finish up my work, answer emails, etc., while you get your homework done.  DH said to me that working out is good for DS and he'll be fine.  How will he be fine-he is currently failing 2 classes.  No response from DH.  He literally stood there looking at me like I had sprouted a second head.  So here we have another value that we do not share.  

  My husband was extremely passive for the fist 18 years of our marriage and then he abruptly moved out and we were separated for 6 months.  That was 5 years ago.  To this day I don't know where he lived for those 5 years.  Maybe I sound like a big snob, but I have always enjoyed theater, opera, museums, lectures, books.  He used to join me for those things but no longer.  He tells me he really was just going along, not that he enjoyed them too.  What I suspect is that ADHD aside, we had a marriage based on nothing real.  He was very passive and I was good at managing things.  He decided he didn't wish to be managed any longer.  Now he watches I don't know what on his iPad pretty much all the time he is not working.  He lifts weights, drinks all those protein shakes, takes that hydroxy cut crap that is sold on late night TV (I always wondered what kind of suckers fell for that stuff--now I know), takes testosterone (for who I don't know-we have not had sex in two years), eats poorly (I see the receipts on his desk).  I suspect we just have an empty, crummy marriage that was not based on anything real.  I made a poor choice.  I was charmed and he was passive and easy to boss around.  Now I have outgrown the need to boss someone around but we have nothing real or shared to continue to hold us together.  How much of that is related to unmedicated ADHD on his part I can't say.  I do know the unclear communication, lack of follow through, impulsivity-chasing anything shiny-is really hard to live with.  My plan is to get the high school sophomore graduated and to college and then leave.  I can be lonely on my own-no reason to be lonely with someone.

Bad Brakes and Letting Go

I wanted to join in here, and say a few things about what I have learned in all of the things that have been said about letting go and in a more general sense...everything that has been mentioned or said in this entire thread?  And the best place to start is simply saying that the ADHD "effect" is only 1/2 the story here?  My personal story I can include as being a "journey of discovery".  Not just a metaphorical "journey" or "path", but a real one on a time line going back to my childhood and moving forward from there?  I am beginning to see the "light" in all of this for myself, and the "light" could be said in many ways?  Being given sight to see things more clearly in part, was greatly improved by going on medication.  But if you stop and think about your own journey going back in time and to date, you grew, matured, learned things then applied them as you learned and improved along the way?  I the light of this journey, you either moved forward, or you stopped and moved no further and you could apply that to anything in your life, not only in the big picture as an overall report card of how far and how well you did?  If that report card you look at, looks like mostly  F's and D;s...then you might think that you are a failure, unless you if you are looking at your GPA score as a whole and not look at each (class ) or lessen individually..which may show ( probably ) that you did better in some (lessons ) than you did in others?  And in some of those lessons, either you never went back and got retested again later...or you didn't go back and relearn what you failed in again and made a second attempt to improve you grade in those specific areas that needed improving on?  But in respect to moving forward and continuing to grow ( or move )...if you stopped moving period..and never continued any further, I don't think this is exclusive to ADHD in fact...I like this is common with everyone no matter who you are?  This is all about you own personal journey and your own personal report card not the repost card about "marriage" or you relationship with your spouse?  I think it's fair to say, that there is a report card there too, but like Melissa mentioned that I whole heartedly agree with her on ( now ), you have ZERO power or control, of either fixing you relationship by yourself, fixing another persons issues even the ones that negatively affect you, or having any control ( directly ) over another human being what so ever?  Accepting you are powerless and you have no ability to control someone a powerful component to letting go I think?  When you humble yourself to this realization..and come to terms with your own lack of any power what so ever to control anyone but is a humbling experience to realize just how little control you really have?  That is, for yourself that is?  The humility and the acceptance of having so little power and control of your life can be a frightening thing to come to terms with?  Especially, when you believed that you had this ability, or possibly, could have this ability..if you only tried harder next time?  And trying harder in respect, to do the impossible is like putting all your energy in one direction, to realize that you had been expending it all for nothing?  Like a gigantic waste of time?  And this only happened from the expectations that were wrong or somewhat not based on reality and only what you thought it would be like before you actually got there?  Again, saying this is on that path, road or journey your on the entire time?

If I stay with this journey aspect of it and put that on a time line....then of course you were moving right along the entire time with time?  Life goes on, and so did you, and until the day that no longer is the case time will take you with it whether you do nothing or something at all?  If you are in the stream or river of life in that respect....the current will be there no matter what?  Either you go against the current trying to swim back upstream from where you came, ( keep going back and living in the past )...or you can turn and swim down stream and expend the same amount of energy but now with the current behind you to add to yours going the other direction?  In terms of movement, going up stream against the current with your added energy into it, is basically a wash...and you end up moving no where in a forward motion? respect to this the water and current rushing by.  And you, in this picture are still you in this picture.  On a map of this river, either you didn't move forward going down river towards your goal or stated destination ( going up stream against the current )  or at times , you turned with the current and actually moved forward?  The third option here, in this metaphorical picture, is to float..down stream..and just let the current take you where ever the current is going and add no more energy or effort into it.  You still are moving down stream, but you are drifting with no control of where it will go?

I think it's easy to get caught up in this picture I've painted and start applying all kinds of things to it....but in resect to this metaphorical picture, I can see a number of problems with it?  Within the picture itself, if I neglect to see that this is not just a picture or metaphor of a virtual journey, but with real life...( reality components to it ) like Time and ( me ) for example...the two real life components to this river of life.....I have to stand back and ask "is this really a metaphor of my physical journey?"  Or is this a metaphor of my spiritual one? The one that involves how I feel, and how I rate my report card as to happy, sad, depressed or any other "state of mind"  The "state of mind" is more about how I felt at any given time, but my over all report card or GPA in this case, is one of my spirit in the sense of being content and fulfilled?  So really, in the complete picture here as I see this through my own eyes.....I see "my physical journey"...I see my "mental journey" ...and I see my "spiritual journey" each one separate?  Each ( lesson ) or ( classes ) I took has a grade that shows up on my report card...but each one with it's own grade...which is separate from the others?  Of course, I am just one person and if I was actually on a real river and swimming in the water....then of course, all these things go with me at the same time, yet each one has it's own place in the entire story or journey?  And what I do, don't do, and how I do it...with change in respect to each one individually and together as a whole? I am always a whole physical person in reality on a real river...but there is this metaphorical or spiritual well as my state of mind.  The state..of my overall being at the any one given point in time?

So if I did this well, and painted this picture of a river, the water and ( me ) in it? And always consistently the water moving along down stream with this current to deal with, I can use that to tell you what I see and what I have learned from this?  This is what I am saying, in respect to my journey , and how I view it?  It is the picture in my mind in that respect, and exactly how I see it?  Not just "like it" but "is it" in what I see and know?  This is exactly the picture I hold and can see very clearly of what my own road or path I'm on, and in my's a river.  The river of life you could say?  And in respect to the water itself, moving down stream...the water and current has of course, an energy behind it?  Whether in the physical ( real water and gravity as the "force" that moves the water down stream ) or in the spiritual or virtual one, with the water being time?  So in respect to this spiritual water and time moving down stream, there is a force or energy there as well? And in respect to this force or energy and have no control of that either but it's there and it moves whether with no input from you?

So from here, I can speak to what I believe in my heart of hearts is true.  True for everyone...whether you believe this or not?  This is just how I see it...and what speaks to me personally and this is the basis for how I view the world we live in together from this vantage point I'm in?  As I see the world, standing back from it from space ( lets say ) the world turns, time goes on, and the energy that created the earth and us, continues on with us or without us, in the same way as time does?  There really is no beginning nor end to this..and we just happened to come along and get into the river at one point..and at one point we will leave?  But the river itself, will keep on going and we have no power to change that what so ever in the big picture?

This is where I can speak to the spiritual side of this and what that energy really is?  I fully believe in my heart of hearts ( personally ) that Religion or Religious matter which one speaks to you...are all saying exactly the same thing, and no one wrong.  In fact, they are all right..and they all are saying and speaking to the exact same river, time, and the energy that binds these things all together include ( all of us ).  This picture I painted of th river of one in the same no matte what you believe?  And instead of looking at it like they are different, and looking at what is not the a positive way, if you are seeing it as ( all the same thing ) and everybody is in the same river together..then that would mean that there is something common for everyone no matter who you are or what you believe?  Including all you faults, failures and everything negative include within it?

And what is common, to everyone no matter who or what you believe are some pretty basic and easy to see things that are no real revelation?  You have a body in a physical sense.  You have a brain or mind that works and a consciousness that you exist in the real world of reality.  Thoughts, thinking etc....And you have a spirit or your state of mind,  and awareness of your feelings and how you sense and feel things.  Mind, body and spirit....3 things together to form a whole person that you are?  This is the power of 3 as I am seeing it, which is the repetitive theme that keeps repeating it selves in all aspect of what I see?

And if you would like, I am happy to  include, how I see Christianity in this?  At this point, I want to be clear?  I see myself ( in one aspect of this ) a doubt what so ever?  But I also believe in other religious teaching as well, and saying....all of them not just one or not just Christianity?  That puts me in...somewhat a unique place since I think they are all "correct", "right"  and non of them are wrong?  I have adopted...all spirituality and spiritual beliefs, as just all being one in the same.  They all speak to the same things in my picture of the river of life..and they are simply retelling the same story, from a different perspective than each other?  Each one had a teacher, and each one has a story.  And each teacher, was doing there best at the time, with what they had to work with.  All of them ..and none of them are different except for these two variables?  The teacher, and the story..and that is the only thing different?  And in respect to a teacher, a teacher teaches lessons?  And each lesson, you learn, you either pass, flunk or get a ( no show ..or no grade ) depending on which one you pick?  In the entire course of life, there are many lessons to learn?  And each teacher has given them to us, to learn...or not?  I don't think you even have to believe in any religious teachings what so ever?  The same point being made, that the river of life and all that goes with it, continues on with or without you, and the lessons still remain unchanged?  And either you pass ( and then move forward ) fail ( and have to repeat the lesson )...or you figure it out on your own without the teachers help, or you do nothing and float aimless a drift down stream and let the current take you?  You have no choice and no not be "in the river" and the river flows endless ...with you in it either way?

And in order to succeed in each lesson or as a whole, you have to pass first prerequisite courses...before you more on to the nest one in the same respect to anything you step and one lesson at a time?  I know this is a long lead up to what I have discovered myself personally, but if I am to get anyone on the same page with me, I had to paint that picture clearly to apply to anything else?  If you take what I said, and clear you mind of what you think or believe, I have found one of those magic keys....that opens up a lot of doors?  This would be what I would call "The Master Key"?  And the "Master" of "teacher" in this case, is Jesus as I am saying it?  I could apply different names to the "Master Key" going back to what I am saying?  But what I am trying to say is....that the "Master" matter which religion or belief system you apply it to? Keeping in mind here the power of 3?  Mind , body and spirit...or if you like....father, son, and holy ghost?  What is less important here, is that you believe the same thing I believe...what is more important is the power of 3 and how that is common for all of us in the respect to mind, body and spirit and the river itself.

The river:  time, energy and you ( or I )
You (personally )  have: mind, body, and spirit

And as with anything, no matter who you are, you have a personal relationship..and the one you have with others. Your marriage and friendships fall into the latter category?  But in respect to your personal relationship...this is all about you and you only?  Only you can have a personal relationship with yourself and the river which is your journey only?  No one else can have that relationship and that is yours alone?  So in respect to this personal relationship...I have to go back to things I remember from church and the one thing they would always say?  You have to have a personal relationship, with Jesus as said...which in respect to the way it is taught, that Jesus is the son of God and more or less became God himself, (give or take).the details exactly are less important to what I believe?  What I believe in my heart of hearts..was Jesus...knew something that we didn't know...and to teach us what he knew..he did it in a certain specific way?  How he did that was by representing himself as the trinity...which is the power of 3 again.  He is the father, the son and the holy ghost in how I see him all rolled into one?  All 3 together at the same time?  And just like us, we are always a mind body and spirit...but when they are separated from one another...they are not all together at the same time but separate from us...which is why Jesus was teaching what he did, to show us how to put them together and make them one or whole?  This is what the journey of life on the river is....trying to put these three together and make one complete whole as you, being a whole complete person, who is satisfied and grateful for being in the river of life?  What I see, and the lens I see what Jesus was teaching us, what how to do this, and the way to do this by the lessons he taught along the way with one goal in mind for us at the end of the process?  I don't believe at all, that what Jesus was teaching is how to have eternal life ( after death ).  To me, that makes no sense what so ever? Skpping past the after life, and focusing on the river of life....there is one goall that Jesus had in mind?  To combine the power of 3 while we are alive, so we can enjoy the river and life and use it to our fullest potential?  What ever happens later, in my not something I'm spend any time worrying about?  What ever happens will happen...without my input what so ever?  In how I see it from this frame of reference?

So the basics that I remember start with this:  God is Love.   ( . ) end of story.  That's it, nothing more to say?  You need to know nothing more than that, to explain the energy that binds everything together as the common thread to everything in existence.  It is a positive energy only.  The negative energy is something else.  It exists too, but that never , ever negative.  No negativity zone when it comes to God and Love and if God is Love then there is no negativity.  But there is negativity too in equal amounts to balance so ...we are always both...plosive and negative and they both exists inside us?  That one, is stated pretty clearly, throughout this entire thread?  No rocket science needed to know that feeling of part of  being human and common for everyone no matter who you are?  So there is you, there is God..and God is Love?  Now what?  Turkey's butt?

This was one of my profound discoveries.  This one lesson is the Master Key.  This is the now what and the answer to that question?  The solution, comes to you, when you apply it...but the Key itself, is applying it and using it?  This was really what I wanted to share, but to share it in possibly a different context and a different perspective that the one I was taught?  This is now what I believe is the absolute undeniable  truth, and the one that when I apply it...seems to unlock this ability to use the power of 3?  Using the power of 3, while in the river of you have all 3 working for you at the same time together?  When they combine..into what makes this happen?  On the spiritual side, the mental side and inside your body as whole.  This total aggregate here, is your personal GPA score, which accounts for your personal  state of being at any one given time, and it is on going like the river and you have to keep using it or it won't work in the same way?

So taking what Melissa said which I also agree with?  You have no other power than this one to change anything?  You have no control of anything  but this one, and that is it?  This can change everything, or nothing at all?  But in order to use it, you have to know how to...just like anything else?  So the answer to this Master Key, was stated by Jesus himself.  This is one of prerequisites, that you have to pass first before anything else?  This the thing that binds and heals you, and makes you a whole person.  And when you can learn to do this and use it correctly....this is how to let go or a means to do so?  If I didn't believe this from my own experience as my means to say this, I wouldn't be saying it, unless I was sure?  This is a conclusion now, at the end of this lesson, so in my own personal journey on the river, this I believe in my heart of hearts is the Key.  There are other keys...after you use this one, but the Master Key fits in every lock you will find?

Mathew: 13   Parable of the Sower

The Parable of the Sower

13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
    you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
    they hardly hear with their ears,
    and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

*Just in case you missed this part which I am still pondering over?  

13 .....  1 ( 3 )   or   1 X  3 + 10 = 13   or the square root of 13 =  3.60555128      

100..... ( 3 X 33 + 1 )     or the square root of 100   =     10       

60...... ( 2 X 30 )       or the square root of 60   =  7.74596669    

30....... ( 10 X 3 )     or the square root of 30   =   5.47722558   

Interesting?   The power of 3,  or...  3 times the power of 1?  I don't know if these other numbers mean anything, but it's still fascinating to ponder over and wonder what they mean?




J, comments on love :)

"So the basics that I remember start with this:  God is Love.   ( . ) end of story.  That's it, nothing more to say?  You need to know nothing more than that, to explain the energy that binds everything together as the common thread to everything in existence.  It is a positive energy only.  The negative energy is something else.  It exists too, but that never , ever negative.  No negativity zone when it comes to God and Love and if God is Love then there is no negativity.  But there is negativity too in equal amounts to balance so ...we are always both...plosive and negative and they both exists inside us?  That one, is stated pretty clearly, throughout this entire thread?  No rocket science needed to know that feeling of part of  being human and common for everyone no matter who you are?  So there is you, there is God..and God is Love?  Now what?  Turkey's butt?"

    Very interesting paragraph. Yes, God is love, and loves us unconditionally, but He does require something from us. In order for us to get what he truly HAS for us, we must obey Him, and follow his commands, since He always knows what's best for us. And, therein lies the problem for most of us, we don't follow what he says.  We may in part, but then falter, or fail completely. And, thus, is why Jesus came, because we CAN'T and couldn't follow the law. So, HE even gave us an "out', by GRACE, which is Jesus. An incredible thing indeed for a loving God to do.  And so easy, HE made it easy, believe in Jesus, and follow His teachings, and live by His word..........just like the parable of the sower, where the seed (the word) falls on good soil and grows, or falls on poor soil and withers out and dies. (our lives)  Sadly, some choose to be the poor soil, and the good things wither and die, and their pride keeps them from acknowledging and admitting their failings, and their lives produce no living "fruit".

     The evil you also spoke about is something inside man, but we must realize where all evil comes from, the enemy. The main enemy of God, (Satan or Lucifer) who wants to destroy God's creation and tempt us to do wrong, even when we know better sometimes.  Doing wrong is easy, doing the "right" things are often some of the hardest, but the most rewarding....always.

      I believe there is a spiritual side to marriage, which binds a married couple together as one, which is biblically stated. "The two are no longer two, but one flesh". So, what happens to one, also happens to the other, good or bad. And, is also why it's SO difficult when there is divorce, or infidelity, or when one has mental illness, or stays in denial of problems and won't address them. It's tearing for both people. That's also what makes it SO HARD for a married couple to be "separate" and "live separate", because we weren't MEANT to live separate, we were MEANT to live as ONE FLESH.

     In this new arena of knowing about ADHD, and how to live with this and conditions co-mobid with this, it becomes a true dilemma, and is why we really need outside help to get through the UNKNOWNS about it all.  NO one just grows up automatically knowing about such things, or, how much do we REALLY know about marriage at ALL, when we actually GET married? LOL.

     I always enjoy what you write J, as well as C, Melissa, and the others here. Thanks to you all. very encouraging and enlightening.


Thank You Dede, And Thanks for....

responding to the things I've learned.  They really are just conclusions to things that I've taken a long time to figure out.  All that really means is this is just how far I've gotten in learning all that we have absolutely no idea about what we REALLY needed to know, but no one told us? LOL  I'm with you there for sure.  I'm sticking with GOD is Love like glue, but in respect to what you were saying about living separately, I now know what you know and I can really related to that completely now?  An in the same way, I had to learn how not to be?  There are a couple of points in there ( or little bits of missing pieces ) that I really needed before I could understand things and I really don't believe at this point, that even with having ADHD, you don't start out that way either?  I think ( hypothetically ) is someone were to have the same experience for ( any reason at all ) the effect this would have, and how you would be affected by it, would be one in the same under the same conditions?  That is all about nurture, and how that plays into it?  That is the most difficult thing, to try and separate one from another if you have something like ADHD in there too, let alone the rest of it that goes along with that same experience?  I mean, as a small child for example, there is no pretense involved.  You're not sophisticated enough, to really be thinking much about anything?  If you are scared, or your's not that hard to figure out why?  You know it by how it feels and there is usually a pretty simple reason for it and really small children really speak what's on their mind and don't really lie?  They literally take everything at face value and are quite concrete and think in absolutes? "Never do that"  "Never touch this"..."Always do this but don't ever do that!!" LOL

The little bits and pieces that I have come to understand better than anything else, is what I'm calling "discrepancies".  "Discrepancies" are not about not understanding things on the surface, but more when something doesn't make sense?  This is where feelings and emotions can't tell you the answers to these questions?  All they can do, is point in a direction, but something has to come along and resolve that discrepancy, to actually removed it from being that obstacle and create and understanding?  If I can understand it, then I can figure it out from there?  This I think, is part of the problem for those of us who have ADHD?  It's the "not getting it" part, and how that really works?  This is where logic and reason can get confused at times, and the only way to "get it" is to separate those out from one another, and look at them individually..and then put them together yourself?  There is something in there, that prevents this from happening in some respects and deep down at the core I now know why that is?  This is where intelligence and this the autopilot...leave holes or spaces where there should be none?  It's that manual override you have perform, and then fill in the blanks yourself?  Either you learn how to do this with actually learned knowledge...or you fill in those blanks another way..and that way is a lot more unconscious without any awareness of it?  In the same way, no one teaches you or tells you how to do this?  It's really no different than what you said?  We've just a few more things to learn on the list of order to make up for the difference but, you can learn, that's the point?  It is learnable through experience and with help along the way?  That's why they say ADHD is "correctable" (? possibly? )  even if not "curable" from that perspective?

Back to what you said though.  To a certain extent, this is not avoidable no matter what or how it's presented, but the fact is, we are all born to recognize and identify things in order to tell them apart? Just like in my example.."Don't do this"..."Do this"...Don't touch this....never do that"LOL  Pretty much? lol  That's about as far as it goes, when we first learn how to do this as a small child?  Speaking formyself,  these "discrepancies that don't make sense", were really problematic?  And even in learning about faith and going to church...there were so many of them, I couldn't keep track of them all?  I could not get past these "discrepancies" until they made sense in a logical way?  No amount of imagination, was going to do the trick for me there?  My curiosity...was overwhelmingly more powerful than anything I could ever dream up myself, and anything I could dream up, just made that worse!!! LOL  I simply could not let that go, and it stayed with me, until I had an answer?  A real one, that I could hold in my hand and see?  Even in the non-physical sense...but no matter what, it had to make sense...or I couldn't move forward?  Sense, is a logical way or that "thing" or "discrepancy" just wouldn't go away?  And in the mean time, my curiosity was burning a hole in my head and was working overtime in order to figure it out?  I had to figure out, or I just couldn't understand it?  It would be like learning to drive a car...but having to know how the entire car worked from stem to stern including all of the moving parts and everything that made it "go"...before I could simply turn the key, put it in drive, push the gas and push the brake to stop?  And turn the wheel in either of two directions to make the car turn? LOL  It's like, there was something in there that was making it impossible to drive the car, unless I knew all of those things had to make sense? LOL  You could see why or how that could be a problem, when it came time to learn something? LOL  "Why"  was clearly my favorite word as a kid?  The only difference between then and now, is now I can do it by myself and I don't need to ask "why" anymore! LOL  Once you learn how, or learn why...then the rest is down hill from there?  Those discrepancies I have found, will disapear automatically when I get enough information to solve that mystery and put that one to rest, and on to the next? LOL  And I don't necessarily, need to share it anymore?  It will just be there waiting until I need it? As long as I can resolve it, then everything is Okay?  That is just about me and no one else since I have come full circle in realizing that would be impossible?

The other key words along with "discrepancies" are "conditions and contingencies" which you mentioned yourself?  In the psychological department, but how that plays out and manifests itself?  If you have a "condition" then things are "conditional"?  That's not just semantics sort of new way of seeing these things?  And like with anything, if you don't now how, and you can't do it yourself...then someone has to do it, or it won't get done?  And if you become dependent or so use to someone doing it for you, then that is what your expect...until that becomes a problem?  Now what?  This is the repetitive cycle that plays out or manifests outwardly, in the exact same happening inwardly or inside you?  It really is like a ripple effect, or the rings on a pond that gets dropped onto the surface, and spreads out like a mirror of itself but retains the same shape?  I think that right there, is what is so difficult to see?  From the inside looking out...not from the outside looking in as in you or I looking at another person?  All of this to me says exactly the same thing?  I learned to deal with that, my own individual way. and I went with what worked and how I learned to manage it under the conditions I had to work with?  And if it worked it worked..and if it didn't just didn't?  And up to a point, I don't need to fix that or change that dramatically?  More than anything else, is not needing to understand everything, since I've learned to pick and choose what I really have to know in order to understand something...and what I can omit of leave out, and still be just fine?  Out of everything, I have to know....that narrows it down to a much smaller list.  And all of that still, have to do with just me? I need to know things, much more than other people in some respects, but only in the things that show themselves as a problem and if they've not then se la vie?

But you are right about one thing and that's for sure?  We do need teachers to teach us these things.  We can't figure that out all by ourselves and we were not meant or designed to do that which requires other people?  I found or discovered this more recently as a conclusion, but ..I had to separate away from our situation, since it was having a toxic effect on me, and I had to disconnect enough where I had control of that?  I have to control that and only that, which I fest was toxic, and that was something I had to do, and do what ever it took to get there?  And if that is where I need to be, until that is not happening ( which I doubt seriously ) then my wife is not going to happy, even though she is not seeing her part to play in all of this?  I don't want to be separate, but I cannot allow our relationship to make me ill or have that kind of effect on me, just so I can be with her?  Every attempt I have made, to break through and open up to her, comes with a cost to my health and well being, there is just no denying is there?  That isn't me, denying my part and somehow not understanding this?  But there is a line or boundary that when it gets crossed, starts taking away from you, instead of adding to you in that way and if I had to maintain my own positivity in the face of having to become ill or sick, then that is an easy choice to make and when Love, is not enough, to prevent that from happening?  I have to take care of myself and be a healthy happy person, before I can give anything back, than the way I am at the time?  If all I have to give, is from that place of being ill or sick, then that is not good for anyone I know.  I have to have balance for myself first and foremost and I can give that to anyone , that is not mine to give?  This is where those rules and obeying them come in?  I think that has to be an anchor or a reference point, when there are none, that's the point?

I always enjoy hearing what you have to say Dede.  I hope things are moving forward for you and you don't get stuck and become ill.  Please don't and do what you have to?  We all have to take responsibility for our own health no matter what? :)