Hello Everyone:
I am so happy to have found this forum. I've been reading it for a few weeks now and feel amazed at the bravery and honesty of what I've been reading.
I'm writing because I just asked my H to leave today. I packed up his belongings and told him to call his parents to pick him up. He's gone now. The house is quiet - and I feel sad - but happy.
We've been together for almost 12 years and chose to get married just six months ago. Last year he had a major brain surgery that he didn't want to do. He could have gone blind - but he was willing to ignore the issues he had until I stepped up and started to make some calls for him to get it taken care of. It all happened really quickly. After the surgery it became clear that he had some issues - big ones - we didn't know where to turn. He was crying all the time - I was angry all the time. The neurosurgeon had the attitude that he was walking, breathing and eating he must be okay.
I opened up to my therapist about what was happening and she suggested he get an appointment with a neuropsychologist. Well that turned into a huge deal - he was diagnosed with ADHD, memory loss and host of other issues - executive function, language...it was overwhelming. It still is. But honestly, it made sense. After 12 years of fussing at him about emails, spelling and his inability to bring in any money - it all made sense.
Since his diagnosis things have fallen apart in our home. I know he is depressed. I've tried to get him in therapy - we've tried couples therapy. He's barely contributed to the bills over the last year. He returned to college to finish up his BFA - at my suggestion - but only brings in work study checks to the tune of $200 a month. I've done what I can to do paperwork for him to get on disability - but he's mostly gone - busy and uses his brain as an excuse when I ask him for help. I feel aware the ADHD's get hyper-focused - but to me he's just burning a bridge - his behavior is insulting. If he wants to be in this relationship wouldn't he make some sort of effort to help out? Doesn't he see how much I am shouldering?
We've also been in business together this whole time - but with his diagnosis I am starting to realize that I've been in business this whole time and he's reaped the rewards of my hard work. He was very manipulative - and had a way of belittling me - so I've always thought I wasn't doing enough. I also have a history of childhood sexual abuse and physical trauma. I was diagnosed with PTSD and a mood disorder - so I admit I wasn't totally clear about what was happening - I was always trying to do my best and make enough money to pay for both of us.
I started a full time job this past year - as I mentioned - he's not bringing in much money - and his way of dealing is to do less. For example: I complain about him not helping me pay for the car or car insurance - so he stared taking his bike. I complain about him helping me with my bills and bringing in more money for food - and he'll eat a can of soup for dinner (for the last three nights!) This angers me - because he's not stepping up to do more - he's doing less. He doesn't seem to care about my needs - only his own. What about this relationship we are cultivating? Is this what a marriage is?
His family also has issues - so it makes me sad to send him there. His father is an overweight alcoholic who mumbles mean things under his breath. He made my H collect plastic cups from the stands after baseball games when he was a child. He also stole money from my H pretty consistently for yearly trips to Las Vegas - and kept the game going well into H's adulthood. His mother enables the old man - buys his clothes, cooks his meals and puts up with his mean ways. Over the past 12 years I've only spent one holiday with them - and it was painful. I think my H's father was physically abusive to him as well - but he will not discuss this. Also, over the course of relationship his mother has consistently given him money to help out with bills and stuff. I joke that his family is his part time job!
But what is sad - reading these ADHD forums - learning about executive function - this whole diagnoses brings to light that my H never learned how to take care of himself. He moved from his parent's basement into a space with me. I enabled him by running a business and taking care of everything financially. I remember when he would suggest things that were on the level of his functioning - I fussed at him - I did not understand - I felt embarrassed - I would gloss it over and fix it.
I feel sad that my relationship is ending - but I am happy to have less stress in my life. I guess I hope we can work it out - but I just can't see it now.
I think that's the hardest
Submitted by MFrances on
I think that's the hardest part about an adult with untreated ADHD, they never learned how to take care of themselves. My husband lived on his own when we first started dating, but looking back, his parents lived close by so he had lunch or dinner with them-depending on his work schedule. He never really lived alone in the true sense, he was always at his parents for meals or company.
I hear you!
Submitted by HyperBallad on
Thanks for the words panda123. It's crazy to me that I never knew about ADHD! As a teenager I couldn't wait to get away from home and figure things out on my own. I just thought my husband was a "late bloomer" - but when I first met him I sensed the dysfunction in his home. Did your husband have a healthy home life? Just out of curiosity? (Hope I haven't asked too much!)
I don't think he did have a
Submitted by MFrances on
I don't think he did have a healthy home life. He'll tell you he did. But after he graduated high school he went into the military, from there he didn't return home he went to live with his one sister, then moved into his grandmother's house after she died (the house that was really close to his parents). He seemed close to his mom and dad, especially his dad. His dad died when we were engaged and that really affected him. Sometimes I wonder if that threw him into a depression that he never really came out of, because then we got married, moved, and had our first child. A lot of stress. But after his dad died, he hardly talked to his mom, she only called when she needed help with something and he never called her. Even know I have to nag him to call her to thank her for any gifts she sends. I thought he was close to his sisters (since he lived with the one!) but he doesn't talk to them anymore either. We only see the one because I invite them to the birthday parties. He would invite her if I nagged him. Otherwise I don't think he would think of her. His mom and younger sister live far away now. I was the same way, i couldn't wait to get out of the house but I knew I had a bad home life. For a long time I didn't want to get married or have kids because my parents marriage was so bad and they were such bad parents. But then I realized I didn't have to be like them. I don't think my husband realizes that how he was raised doesn't have to be the way. He can be different than his parents. I worry that my kids won't be close when they are older. That would break my heart if they never talked to each other (or to me!)
Good point!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
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I think that's the hardest part about an adult with untreated ADHD, they never learned how to take care of themselves. My husband lived on his own when we first started dating, but looking back, his parents lived close by so he had lunch or dinner with them-depending on his work schedule. He never really lived alone in the true sense, he was always at his parents for meals or company.
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While most parents are loving parents, the mistakes that too many parents make when their ADHD children are young is that they don't teach some coping skills, they don't teach them how to "do things" (laundry, cleaning, etc). They often don't teach them to "be careful" with things. They often "give up" with teaching them things.
and, since people with ADHD have a problem making "good decisions," parents need to help them with that (not decide for them), but help them learn how to consider the "pros" and "cons" of various choices, and so forth.
That's so interesting
Submitted by HyperBallad on
That's so interesting OverwhelmedWife! Thank you for your insights! I can absolutely see that pattern with my H and his family! Coping skills were not taught! Aw this is the answer to so many questions!
Since his diagnosis I've been flashing back to the early days of our relationship. I remember how much he relied on his mother to complete tasks for him. I thought he was just cheap - but I think that there was a support system in place for him with her. I didn't understand at the time! The big deal for me is that she would buy his underwear - which made me feel so territorial and uncomfortable. I did my usual fussing! I also did what I could to encourage him to grow up and be the man in his life. I told him he was more attractive when he took responsibility for himself. Those were words that he had never heard it turns out.
Aw. This is such a healing time in terms of understanding this diagnosis and choosing to either move towards love or towards anger and frustration. I've felt so lost! Thank you for your insights!
Bringing back memories...
Submitted by Linsy on
I suddenly remembered asking my mother in law if it was normal to buy one's husband's toothbrushes. She said it was (but then his father had what looks like raging ADHD from this perspective - compulsive infidelity and a need for a whole support system - which he was lucky enough to have - to live his life. Lots of money so total freedom to be a selfish jerk.) H's mother even provided wedding rings. Looking back it all becomes clear.
Husband living with parents too when we met
Submitted by Linsy on
He was living an odd sort of life when we met - but we were very young and I just thought it was him sorting himself out. Now I would run fast in the other direction, but life has a way of teaching you lessons. However time doesn't work backwards so you can rectify things. Now I am 56 there will be no new relationship for me with a functioning man. I was so used to my own useless brothers that it all seemed very familiar. And then he was so full of plans and interesting ideas. So I married him based on his promises. All broken. 28 years later, I left him five years ago and live a rather difficult life as a single parent. Sometimes I feels as if I am quietly going mad. That the life that was mine slipped away and left me standing. It all comes from how we were brought up - as women expected to make the most of things and be selfless. That's a hiding to nowhere.
You did the right thing!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I know that it was hard to ask him to leave, but this was such a one-way street from the "get go".
You're right, his family has enabled all of this. Allowing him to "live in the basement"! Well, now he'll just go back to the basement.
I wonder if you can get the marriage annulled.
>>>
learning about executive function - this whole diagnoses brings to light that my H never learned how to take care of himself. He moved from his parent's basement into a space with me. I enabled him by running a business and taking care of everything financially. I remember when he would suggest things that were on the level of his functioning - I fussed at him - I did not understand - I felt embarrassed - I would gloss it over and fix it.
<<<
^^^ this was a big realization for me as well. H had "hidden" this fact from me. He had "appeared" to have lived on his own, but as the facts dribbled out over the years, I now realize that he commuted to his undergrad university (so mom took care of him), then for grad school, he rented a room with a family (who cleaned the place), and for a short time he lived with a GF, and then when he got his first real job, he first lived (mooched off) and older relative for several months until he had enough money to sign a lease......he chose a roommate that was a former Navy Seal ...and that guy could do everything (and did do everything....paid the pills, repaired things that broke, cleaned things, cooked, etc. In hindsight, H never pulled his weight in any of these situations.
Then he chose me. I was used to taking care of things. I can cook, clean, sew, repair things, etc. He must have thought, "hey, I'm set for life with this one!"
For over 30 years, I did everything home related. He refused to help with any home chores except taking out the trash and checking the pool chemicals. He did earn a high income (his saving grace), and is now retired with an excellent pension.
He has very poor Executive Function. Virtually all of his siblings and both parents have EFD. He somehow learned some coping skills to handle most of work assignments, so for 25 years, he did well with work. Occasionally, he'd lose his keys or jacket, but most of his ADHD/EFD issues were focused on me. However, when his job changed after 25 years to a position that he didn't like, then things really started falling apart.
Now that he's been retired for a year, he does actually work at my business and does very well as long as the chores are simple, but let his OCD take over...such as washing windows.
How Do You Cope?
Submitted by HyperBallad on
Hey Overwhelmed Wife!
My H came back. I've been so mad but we've had moments of clarity. I feel like I am mourning the loss of the man he was. Oh it's so confusing. I think the surgery is an added trauma to our relationship.
I wonder though - I hear how upset you are with your husband - he sounds maddening! Smiling. Mine is too! But Do you ever have any moments of clarity with your H during the day? Being in business with him? I loved being in business with my H - because I got to spend time with him! I was pretty seduced - smiling! But he liked spending time with me too - so it just made sense to work togehter.
We've been in couples therapy and our therapist starts our session by asking us what we appreciate about each other. I realize I feel quite negative about my husband - but I also feel negative about stuff in general. I've actually been really angry about my life. Aw. Well that's another story. But I think I am trying to work things out - and want to see the good in this diagnosis.
How has that been for you?
What? He came back?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Why did he come back? Did he just show up? What did he say?
Oh the drama!
Submitted by HyperBallad on
Oh Overwhelmed Wife!
I wish I had a better story - like he came back in a new car with his life together. But no - I guess he wasn't able to get a hold of his parents and he was kind of pathetic and sad with a giant suitcase and big tears. He cries a lot these days.
With my own complicated history - I feel really on rocky ground with him. I can't tell if I am being taken advantage of - and I feel that way - especially when I don't get to have the things in my life I enjoy - because all my finances are going to support him. I really am trying to practice this unconditional love thing - I get it - he wants me to love him and support him through this crisis - but it is really challenging. I feel like I've given him a whole year of support. I am at my breaking point. I am good for a few days - and then something happens - and I get all upset again.
I feel like he's become very selfish with this diagnosis - he says he wants to do things "for himself for the first time in his life" - which is fine - I get it. But when he is relying solely on me to pay for his finances - he needs to step out of that "me first" mentality.
You know - I have been thinking a lot about this Overwhelmed Wife (your name sums it up!) I think growing up I learned that a man takes care of business - a man works, provides for his family and so on. The dynamic with my H is goes against that stereotype. I don't know what to do with that feeling. But it's reality - it's the way things are.
Sigh. I am trying so hard!
How are you this week? I hope things are improving!
"Do things for himself?"
Submitted by on the edge on
I feel like he's become very selfish with this diagnosis - he says he wants to do things "for himself for the first time in his life" - which is fine - I get it. But when he is relying solely on me to pay for his finances - he needs to step out of that "me first" mentality.
He says he wants to do things for himself? Seriously? No, he wants you to support him so he can do what he wants. Doing things for yourself means paying your own bills and cleaning up after yourself and being independent.
The problem is you will start to wonder when will it be your turn. When will you be able to do things and have someone else support you as you have fun and do whatever?
So no, it's not fine. You would be better off getting a dog because at least the dog would be useful and eat food you drop on the floor and bark if someone comes to the door.
And yes, I'm bitter after years of being supportive and having my interests dismissed. I am finally going to be able to do things for myself for the first time in years and it's only because I'm getting divorced.
Where was he?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
On 6/13 he was gone, and on 6/19 he was back? Where was he in the meantime? Where did he go while he was gone? Unless his parents are gone on vacation, his excuse seems a bit iffy.
It's one thing to let him stay in your home, it's another to let him have access to your money/finances. You can supply some basics, but why supply more than that?
<<<
He's barely contributed to the bills over the last year. He returned to college to finish up his BFA - at my suggestion - but only brings in work study checks to the tune of $200 a month. I've done what I can to do paperwork for him to get on disability - but he's mostly gone - busy and uses his brain as an excuse when I ask him for help.
<<<<
I think this is the issue. He is barely working, barely earning anything, so he needs your money to help support him while he's in college. What pays for his tuition? Work study is designed to just give college students "pocket money", which is why take-home checks are about $50 a week.
Likely, he knows that his parents won't help him with his education, and he knows that you wanted him to go back to school, so in his mind, you're the logical choice to mooch off.
I suspect that he also has Dependent Personality Disorder.
>>>
But when he is relying solely on me to pay for his finances - he needs to step out of that "me first" mentality.
>>>>
What is his Me First thinking?
I wonder why someone like him would think that a spouse of only 6 months is supposed to be virtually the sole supporter. It's not as if he's taking care of your child or something.
Oh Overwhelmed Wife!
Submitted by HyperBallad on
Oh Overwhelmed Wife!
We were doing well there for a minute. I swear! But now I am back to the madness. Aw.
Just to clarify - he came back that same day hoping to work it out with me - he wasn't gone for a few days. I've asked him to leave an additional time since then - but he came back. I think we really love each other - but the financial part is really killing me!
Our lease is up in a few months so I made a written ultimatum and signed it with him. It states that he must find his own place if he's not able to contribute to half of the expenses when we move. The sad part is I don't really think he knows how to bring in any income...he always seems so overwhelmed and his contribution is usually half of what I make. Anything would help at this point. I feel like I go between being loving and outraged!
The good news is he's started medication and found a job. So he's making some efforts - but the timing is not happening fast enough. I am on a summer break from my job - with basically no income for the next few weeks. I've noticed recently that the brakes are giving out on my car. They are squealing and grinding. I am so upset and stressed out each time I drive. I've turned to him hoping for some support and he's just not there. He has no money to help - doesn't know about cars and takes off every morning on his bike.
I keep talking about my car and finally he suggested that he could ask his parents for help. I feel so embarrassed by this Overwhelmed Wife! We are both adults. Ugh! I've always been an independent woman - and this man turns to his parents any time there is a crisis. I think this is why I've never developed a relationship with them.
I look forward to the day when he is able to save himself. If that day ever comes.
<<<
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
keep talking about my car and finally he suggested that he could ask his parents for help. I feel so embarrassed by this Overwhelmed Wife! We are both adults. Ugh! I've always been an independent woman - and this man turns to his parents any time there is a crisis.
<<<
I can understand why that would upset you....and it is a red flag.
When I met my H, I should have realized that he was doing something similar. Every time a big expense would come up, he'd borrow from his brother. My H has always made good money, but he was always wasting money, so he never had money for a rainy day. And since his brother would lend him the money (H would pay it back), H never learned to save.
The only reason we have savings is because of forced savings thru 401k and my savings. Thankfully, H has a very good pension (he's now retired).
But....it embarrassed me that H's first response was always to borrow from others. Ugh. He never had to save because others enabled his bad behaviors.
Good for you about that signed agreement.
But Overwhelmed Wife
Submitted by HyperBallad on
It sounds like your H eventually came around. You said he has a pension - you have a business together....you must have found some reasons to stay put. Love? Do you think there is some light at the end of this for me? I really love my guy - and want to stay with him for the long haul.
Do you really think it will only get worse?
Yes, I really do think things
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Yes, I really do think things will get worse.
It has taken 30 years of hell, and H has only "turned around" a bit. Not enough to make him a joy to be around. He's ok if we're out for a meal, but I still can't plan anything that involves him....because I can't trust how he'll behave.
Yesterday we were shopping. He got a phone call and told me he'd meet up with me after his call. He ASSUMED that I would be in a certain section of the store. I wasn't. When he found me, he started lecturing me, shaking his finger at me....it was embarrassing. When he did that a few months ago, I quickly walked away....which made him even madder. This time, I told him to stop making a scene. He refused to believe that he was causing a scene. In fact, he later claimed that I had raised my voice to HIM. lol. I certainly did not raise my voice because I was VERY much aware that others were around and seeing him shake his finger at me. I was WHISPERING my words to him....but in his mind, I was correcting him, and therefore, that means yelling! lol
OMG....some days I wish he'd die. Seriously. It's that bad.
I am very saddened by seeing other happy couples.
PTSD
Submitted by HyperBallad on
I feel you OW. It's funny - your husband sounds a lot like me! I am serious. I had a similar situation at the mall recently with my H! Smiling! I got mad at him because he roamed away and I couldn't find him. I actually had a panic attack about it. Smiling. Maybe my H's inattentive ADHD keeps him sane in a relationship with me! Smiling.
But what I wanted to say - after reading your message - is have you both looked into Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? I personally have some pretty traumatic memories of shopping when I was a child. My father actually left me at the mall once when I was 6. We had plans to see movie and he showed up with a woman! He gave me a couple of bucks and told me to go see the film on my own. He told me he would pick me up - but never came back. I didn't know what to do! I tried to wait for him by watching the film again - and eventually realized he wasn't come back so I had to staff member to call my mother.
I don't think of that event each time I go to a film or the mall - but sometimes things trigger it. My H disappearing for example. I feel like we've all got complicated memories and wiring that make us unique - sometimes these things are worth investigating to build a happier life.
My dude seems genuinely happier on his medication. He's in a few days and I've noticed the change! He's hesitating less - and just going for it. He also seems a lot more present - and he found a job. So I'm holding on.
Honestly OW - sounds like you've held on too. I hear you complaining - but you've been with you H for a while. Do you think that you are a happy couple in disguise?
Conflicting Sensitivities HyperBallad
Submitted by kellyj on
Before I comment I wanted to say Wow.....how egregious! ( your story ) I knew a guy like your father growing up as a child that I later had to disowned as a friend who would have likely done what your father did. Everything and everyone disappeared if he found some woman for sex.....to the point that once I kidnapped him from one of these instances when we were out together and he found some woman who agreed to have sex with him while he was married. They wanted me to drive them to her place first so she could change beforehand and when we dropped her off and I was sitting in the street with my friend, the minute she closed the door I punched it and drove off with my friend screaming at me to turn around and go back! lol He was livid but I refused saying "you are not allowed out unless you can behave...I am appointing myself as your chaperon until further notice!" I said this to him while at the same time laughing at him hysterically and fighting him off (hitting his arm away) as he was trying to take control of my car steering wheel as I drove the opposite direction. Not very long after that (we were in our early 20's but I had known him since I was 5 years old ) I stopped hanging out with him because he had done similar things with me (not shown up or left me places) when something caught his attention which usually had to do with a female he was interested in for sex. He was completely out of control and shameless. Anyway...your story triggered this memory as you said that things will do sometimes.
But the conflicting sensitivities is something that is a fair topic for someone with ADHD. Unlike my friend who in my opinion, had no disorder outside of being completely with out any control of his urges.....there are moments to this day that I still will lose track of time and that definitely is a problem for everyone at times with being punctual even though it would be rare for me to completely forget about showing up somewhere. In a more general way....I am mostly just chronically late but it definitely is associated with tracking time and ADHD. But to the point there are things that you can do to prevent this in the first place but you have to make a concerted effort and that includes wandering off and getting side tracked in a state of hyper focus.
However....like you, my wife has some issues herself about this behavior that is also extreme in her reactions from her past that trigger PTSD like symptoms. It is an extreme over reaction to a situation that most people in my experience with my tardiness do not react in the same way. Mildly annoyed or irritated at times yes....but even for the ones who know me well and have a history with me can easily write this off and move past these moments and not have it ruin their day or ours together. They have come to expect it from me but I have also learned not to do this anymore to the point of it being more rare and almost non existent. In those rare moments with these long time friends....I might get a brief eye roll and then everyone moves on together without anything more said past that point.
My wife and I have really had to get to the bottom of these issues because between the two of us.....her extreme reactions are what trigger my past PTSD and my ADHD symptoms can trigger hers ( PTSD like episodes). The margin between these reactions is out of the norm and they exacerbate each other in chain reaction between the two of us. I think it is a fair to say with us, that no one is at fault or to blame for this extreme out of the norm interaction/reaction and that is what we have had to come to understand so we do not start to blame the other person or making a big deal about something that really should not be a big deal.
If everything is a big deal and you have to worry about making even normal human mistakes without some kind of over reaction on another person's part, I would say it is the responsibility of that person to at least figure this out and tell other people of their sensitivities so others can pay respect to these sensitive areas in the first place? No one is going to know this or even have reason to assume you have a problem area until you tell them unless they are exactly like you and have all your past trauma experiences.....how can they? That would be kind of impossible if you think about it.
J
PTSD/ADHD
Submitted by HyperBallad on
Hey JJ:
Thank you so much for the message and taking the time to give me such a thoughtful response! I've read it a few times and I've been contemplating it for a few days now! I was struck at how similar the PTSD/ADHD diagnosis affected you. It's so great to have terms and symptoms to communicate and understand what is happening. And it takes a lot of self awareness to even dig for answers!
Before my husband's surgery he was really intense about little things - he could have a "heart attack" if I spilled something on the floor - or if one of us got a parking ticket. I was always a little taken back! Smiling. But then - sometimes he would bring supplies home from his family - just laundry detergent - or food - and I would freak out. I would find myself surprised at how upset I was...which made me start to look for some answers.
I went to therapy this week and my therapist was pushing the same point! She was talking about understanding the other person's point of view - and also owning our own. This is something that I've always struggled with - so I am happy to see it's something that's being highlighted in my life now!
After therapy I saw myself make another choice in my relationship. I decided to do it consciously. My life was starting to feel like that movie Groundhogs Day! I was doing the same actions over and over again - hoping for different results and nothing changed. I only created distance. I think at some point I realized I was missing something. So now, I am trying take a breath and move in for a hug when I feel like running away - and approach things with understanding instead of shame or distain.
I am trying to accept how hard this must be for my husband - and I even hear myself acknowledging how hard it has been for me. Aw. That takes a lot of patience. I'm ready to write myself off pretty much all the time.
Thanks for sharing that story about your friend too! Smiling. He sounds exactly like my father! I really have struggled with trusting men because of the behavior I saw him exhibit! He would do similar things when I was a girl. Take me out to dinner - and get lost talking to the waitress - take me shopping and suddenly be hitting on the salesgirl. I remember being dropped off a lot - when he was supposed to be spending time with me. I never felt like I got his attention.
I think it's another reason my inattentive ADHD husband is good for me - laughing. I feel like I saw people go to great lengths to deceive others - and my guy is just so easy going and earnest. I appreciate that about him. He reminds me that some people are just good and just want to be in love.
I've been thinking this for a
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
I've been thinking this for a while now as well. I'd feel sad but he's dragging me and our daughter down. He's so MEAN to her, I can't stand it. I wish he would just go away already since he doesn't like either one of us, anyway. He doesn't care about our feelings ever.
FYI Car Brakes
Submitted by kellyj on
A little off topic but and area that I am familiar with. Check Craigslist or Angie's list (Craigslist first)....Lots of good car mechanics work from home or are out of work who advertise there who will save you a lot of money over bigger shops. Sometimes....do better work too instead of the in and out assembly line dealership shops. Front brakes go out usually before rear ones if you are on a budget and you can do the rear ones later and still be safe. I'd do a set of front disk brakes for about $175-$200 with new rotors depending on the car as a reference point (if they are grinding already, you will need new rotors)....large shops can charge $375-$400 for the same work as a comparison.
If you can afford it and find someone like this....you won't need to rely on your H for anything like this if you can find a better alternative and it will get you by until you do the rear ones at a later time. Just a suggestion:)
J
Car Trouble
Submitted by HyperBallad on
Thanks for the message JJ! I really appreciate it. Smiling! You are so smart! I will definitely look into that!
I don't want to say it but I
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
I don't want to say it but I feel it's true that this is not love between you two. This just is not what love looks like. Love is not a nice feeling, it is actions. It is not hoping and wanting, but doing. Love is when you put the other person first -- and you said he's not doing that. He's putting himself first.
You said: "he says he wants to do things "for himself for the first time in his life" - which is fine - I get it. But when he is relying solely on me to pay for his finances - he needs to step out of that "me first" mentality."
Thing is that I have a husband like this who lived with his parents in their basement for all intents and purposes til he was freaking 33 or 34. They did everything for him, filed his papers, paid the bills, had his taxes done for him, etc. He did whatever he wanted, and mostly that meant collecting Star Wars toys and watching porn.
My sister is another person who relies on others all the time. She will be 45 this year and has lived with or borrowed or just plain taken money and resources from everyone and anyone around her since she was a teenager.
Thing is, there's no time left for these people to have "me time". Oh, they want to do things for themselves? Isn't that NICE. But it's TOO LATE. You and I and everyone else have put in enough weeks, months, years, even decades of our time, lives, resources for these people. They are vampires who take anything and everything, and then blame us.
My hubby got a paycheck from his dad because his dad knows he's unemployable. He sits around playing games while I work 2 jobs, then he gets MAD at me. I tell him to look for something productive to do and I get stream of excuses and blame.
Now that his father sold his company and I'm the only one keeping us all alive, I am done with him. He gets a job and becomes a husband or he's out. That's it, no more. I am not playing nicey anymore, I'm not entertaining his illness and his ickle brain problems. He knows he's got it, he can DO something about it. I never want to hear the words "I can't" and "I won't" out of his mouth ever again. It's fine for ME to do it, I can get the work and work til I'm bleary eyed and not get to spend time with our child, but he sits there whining about how she is too loud when she laughs or is happy. He CONSTANTLY tells her to be quiet. I think if I hear him say it one more time I'm going to go off on him.
I don't even know if I want him around at all but I'm being KIND and supporting him because he would be homeless without me. But then he bitches because I'm angry with him all the time. Gee, go figure. He even said today that he was tired of everyone always being mad at him. Even our child tells him that he doesn't work. She even gets it, and he doesn't see how he's letting her down and being a bad example and how she will grow up not respecting him.
A "Person Who Refuses to Take Responsibility" LyraHeartstrings
Submitted by kellyj on
When I read the things you said it really resonated with me. I can't say I have never done some of these things at times in my past but....I have always managed to take responsibility for myself and my actions and having ADHD at the same time. A big part of this came from what I said to HyperBallad about being the IP (identified patient) in my family. It is a common role of position given to the youngest in birth order and they become the scapegoat and take on the entire families dysfunction as being their fault. In a sense, the IP becomes responsible for everything and like in my case growing up at least.....you believe it. As these things go.....the positive sides to this is that you are never allowed much slack for your own failings so you learn to be responsible since you really have no choice in the matter like it or not. I guess this would be the extreme opposite of be enabled if you stop and think about it. I took this line from a definition on a web site that explained this phenomenon that said " The positive part of this role, though, is that these people are very sensitive and are aware of others feelings." Looking back in hindsight and taking in consideration everything I have read about people with ADHD....I see this role as being somewhat my salvation rather than the curse it felt like it was for most of my life. It does make you feel rather isolated and alone but,...as the definition also said " they feel the need to solve the problem ". Again in my case.....this is also true.....I'm a fixer.
A fixer is not a rescuer and theres a difference. My need is to make corrections and fix what is broken but I don't have the need or get anything out of being the "knight in shining armor". I do not get anything out of hand holding people or being every ones hero at my own expense....to an extreme! I think people have many time confused these two to look the same at first but I can tell you without question......there a BIG difference!! I expect people to take responsibility even if I stop to fix their flat tire on the side of the road. Once my job as "fixer" is done.....I expect them to take care of the rest of it by themselves just like me. (I'm not going to get in the car, drive them to the nearest town, find them a place to stay, put them up for the night, find there next destination on the map for them and give them money for breakfast in the morning.....no frick'in way!)
My ex wife was one of these people who mistook me for a rescuer and I can tell you it was a problem for me as soon as I felt it happening. Everything you described yourself sounded like your sister was my ex wife and I really, really resented it after a while. Our therapist (still is mine to this day) back then kept referring to her as a "person who refused to take responsibility." He kept using this reference to me also saying things like "people of this ilk". One day I finally asked him " what IS a person who refuses to take responsibility?....you keep referring to these people like they are some kind of sub group or something?" He said.."they're victims"...and that's all he said and just sat their looking at me. I almost shit my pants when he said that!
From that day moving forward (over 10 years ago)....I vowed never to be a "victim" again in my life and have made it a point to try not to be and eliminate all the victim language that I had learned growing up in my way of speaking and thinking about myself and try very hard not to blame anyone for anything that has to do with me EVER! Seeing myself as a victim was so reprehensible and fowl to me that it had this kind of reaction for me and I will never forget that moment in my T's office. It set me on the change in course I am still on today after seeing how I had been a victim so many times in my own thinking and then having him say that about my ex wife and knowing how I felt about her and how I was made to feel in being with a person like this. That's the difference whether you have ADHD or not IMHO. Being the IP in my family did make me sensitive to other feelings but it also sets you up to be a victim at the same time.
In many ways....I see you spouses who get married to (us) ADHD'ers becoming the "identified patient" in your relationships with your in-laws and extended family whether you realize this or not. It's the same role I had in my family growing up and it looks and sounds remarkably similar to my own experience and one I know all too well. Like I said....it's the common role for the newest member of the family to be assigned this role.
If it looks it looks and sound like a duck? At least from where I sit.....it's a Duck from how I see it? Something to think about?
J
Taking Ownership and Learning Control
Submitted by kellyj on
.It's really great that you are going to therapy and doing this for yourself. I remember just being so fed up with these issues in my life that were causing me problems that I wanted to get to he bottom and just understand what was wrong in the first place? Finding out about my ADHD and getting explanations for my behaviors (for me) was such a relief at first. I had built these things up to be so much worse than they really are that this was my initial reaction. But the real work is doing the things like you mentioned. Going against these unseen forces inside you that pull you in one direction or the other and have control of your emotions. It does take a while and the changes are more subtle at first....but after a while with some patience and practice....you begin to see the results and know it is working. That's the point when you realize you are beginning to take control of these things instead of them controlling you and that feels soooo much better in all regard when this happens. In all case, what feels so awful is not having control of yourself and the more awareness you have to these things...the more control you get to have over them. At that point, everything is a choice and you get to choose and decide how you feel and what you do with your emotions and your life just feels so much easier after a while. What was once before some monumental problem and something to get all upset at just becomes a blip on the radar screen and no big deal.
I really cannot see how anyone would not benefit from cognitive therapy even if they didn't have something like ADHD. It teaches you how to do this and how to get there but you still need to put in the work once you learn how. Like I said....it's the time invested and the work that you actually put in once you become aware and learn all the definitions and terms that is what makes the change but before that can happen, you do have to take responsibility of yourself and your part in everything you do. If you are really taking responsibility....it's not just saying your sorry repeatedly and admitting when you are wrong or have issues. It's doing something about the things you want to change and then actually changing them. The only way to do that is to become aware yourself and then take ownership of your issues and then......practice, practice, practice. It doesn't come over night and the changes aren't always so great that you can see them on a weekly basis but over time...the easier it is to do and the faster things happen.
What struck me in your original post was when you said But what is sad - reading these ADHD forums - learning about executive function - this whole diagnoses brings to light that my H never learned how to take care of himself. He moved from his parent's basement into a space with me. I enabled him by running a business and taking care of everything financially. I remember when he would suggest things that were on the level of his functioning - I fussed at him - I did not understand - I felt embarrassed - I would gloss it over and fix it.
that say's a lot right there. The question that I have is is your H really happy being this way (content with things the way they are)? Or does he say he wants things to change? You can't make him do this but if he wants to do it with you as his motivation (voluntarily)....then I think there are lots of things that can improve by doing the things I just said but it will take work and effort on his part and no one can really make another person want to do this and keep at it. That's something you have to do for yourself the way I have. And I had to reach that point when I just got pissed and said enough is enough before I could do this myself...it really does take that kind of commitment and wanting to do it that bad if it is going to work since it really is a royal pain in the ass sometimes with lost of emotional times to get past at first but once you get to a certain point....it becomes second nature and you begin to enjoy it.
Like they say......it's easy once you know how:)
J
The InLaws
Submitted by HyperBallad on
Well I thought I was doing okay there JJ. I'm working with my husband - it's all uncomfortable - I feel like I go from loving to mean and back again. Our rent is late - I am going to pay it, he is not able - once again. We owe money to the IRS, I set up the payment plan. Everything is due - but I am not in a rage. I am taking deep breaths. I am still giving hugs - practicing patience - focusing on myself...trying to hang in there.
But then this other layer appears...
The INLAWS! Oh! I feel like I must have been blind for 100 years - because it all seems clear to me now. There is major enabling going on, his family has mental health issues and ugh - it's just another painful layer to this drama. From all appearances they have something figured out - the house in the suburbs - the cars...all the trappings of a middle class life. But inside those walls there seems to be a lot of disconnection.
My H tried to talk to his family about his diagnosis and about whether or not they may have it - and they were very insulting to him. I was actually quite shocked! The family has a history of brain issues - but to start a discussion about where or not there may be some version of ADHD or Executive Dysfunction that my H inherited from his parents sent his mother into a tizzy! There was just no way this was possible! They are perfect! They much prefer not to discuss such things and keep it light - which is how he must be if he wants to interact with them.
I feel like I've struggled with them for our whole relationship - and seeing things through the lens of this diagnosis is making it all very clear! My H's father has a version of ED - he seems a little slow, broken staggered speech - one might call him "lazy" and disorganized. He collects weird stuff and gets fixated. His mother - seems quite hyperactive. She darts around like a mouse - barely sitting still or able to make eye contact - she is always moving, cleaning, wiping, sweeping - anything to avoid interacting. Somehow they are able to help out my H a bit financially - and throw products at him when he goes into a crisis - but not much else is there. And it's never quite enough - it always feels like a bandaid - a temporary solution to a much bigger problem.
Ugh! It is getting old. He's in his late 30's and - I just wonder if and when this pattern will change. It's embarrassing! I feel like my friends have husbands that are capable and successful and I am still battling this man-child - and it does feel like a battle. I've been journaling a lot lately - and I've been wondering what exactly I am getting from this relationship. It feels like a lot of heart-ache and nagging. I feel like I am not able to be my beautiful loveable self for fighting this man. When I see him I think - ugh what is the problem now! Not the loving thoughts that I want to have.
Seeing the InLaws in this light doesn't give me much hope.
Same thing: looking around at other husbands
Submitted by Linsy on
Enabling in laws? Check. Mine took my husband in and continued to baby him after he left me. So he learned nothing about how to be an adult, and no one challenged him on his complete desertion and lack of responsibility. So there we are. I am very much a single parent, sometimes feel I am failing horribly and letting everyone down. Always making the best of it and trying to enjoy life. But it is a struggle. And I look at other husbands loving their wives, and realise that I have never been loved liked that. I would like to be, but too late now I think. I gave a lot of love and care, and got three children out of it, but not much else.
That's Where the Denial Comes From...
Submitted by kellyj on
his family. Nothing wrong here...we're just fine...must be everyone else. Right. I get it. I grew up in a dysfunctional family but in my case....I was the scapegoat. They call it the "identified patient" in clinical terms but in some ways it was a blessing in disguise even though it didn't feel like that when I was growing up. Remember the "Emperors' New Clothes"? I was the only one who didn't see them and everyone else wondered what the hell was wrong with me. lol But I see the same thing you are saying with my own sister now even after my parents are both past. To this day they don't like talking about things but now I have begun to tell them the truth of our past whether they like it or not. One of my sister broke down in tears and kind of started to come unglued the last time I mentioned anything so I'm trying to limit what I say with her. The other one is beginning to listen and I suspect she has a touch of ADD (not ADHD) since she fits pretty closely to the profile. All she will admit to this day is that she is an introvert but there's a lot more to it than that. Her IQ is off the chart and she has a got a good husband (successful and retied early) who takes care of things that she can't so all in all....it worked out for her. I'm sure at this point my mother had ADHD like me. The description of your H's mom sounds somewhat similar even if not exactly the same. It's got to come from some where? It sure didn't jump up off the toilet seat and bite you on us on butt...know what I mean. ha ha
J