Except when he couldn't. Then he didn't want to do it at all.
Did or does anyone else have this experience with his or her partner? Here are some examples: 1) My ex wanted to be able to fix anything that broke in the house or on a car but if he couldn't do it, he tended to be reluctant to call a service person. 2) When I asked him for his thoughts about resolving a driver's license issue for one of our daughters, he offered an answer off the top of his head and suggested not digging deeper into the issue despite my research showing that his answer was probably not correct. He also suggested lying. 3) One time, our car got stuck in a snowbank. Ex was driving. A pedestrian walking nearby offered to help push us out. I accepted the offer, which was successful. Ex kept saying afterward, "I could have gotten us out! I could have gotten us out!"
This type of behavior was one thing that made it difficult for us to have a marital partnership.
Poisen Ivy "I Want"
Submitted by kellyj on
This is what I am calling "I want" behavior. I "think it, so therefore it is". This is the same problem I run into with my wife as well. The sentence starts out with "I want......"....or.........."I don't want.............."......or......."I'm doing this now.............." etc. It appears to be an inability to express what she really means or what she really wants to say. It's very irrational and makes no sense to say it? Almost like a "running commentary" of her thoughts or saying...."see this is what I'm doing". Or simply...."this is what I want........................blank. There is something missing that is not being said. We have struggled and fought about this endlessly since this tells me nothing and I have nothing more to go on? As if....this is all that she needs to say....in order to tell me what she is feeling. In fact, this was the very thing that our T gave her specifically as an assignment. Instead of saying "I want............." he told her to say how she feels. I was thinking she had alexythymia as that has come up here before....and as soon as we came home from our T...she simply started doing it again. I finally got angry with her and told her to remember what he said. Our situation came from the fact, that by the time she actually said anything, she was really upset already? I had no idea what she was upset about until she said anything in the first place? It was like she would wait until she was already mad or angry or frustrated...before she would speak up? And then when she would speak up....all that came out was "I want...."...or ....."I don't want......." and then she would become inconsolable and leave if I tried to talk to her about it? If whatever she said, she "wanted'...or "didn't want"...and I didn't do it, these demands would either go one of two ways. Me doing what she wanted......or her getting upset and saying "I don't want to talk about it"...and if I opened my mouth at all.....then she would leave or become so highly emotional that there was no talking to her anyway? It was a complete inability to express herself any other way to get anything she wanted or needed from me and it got to the point of ridiculousness. From my perspective....this was a complete inability to "speak" or "express" anything at all? Either silence or the volcano erupting? What this appears to be from my standpoint is emotional lability....but for me, this is entirely different and this makes no sense what so ever? There is no ramping up at all. Either "all" or "nothing" with no ability to speak in any way anyone could understand her? Not just me, but anyone? it appeared almost like a 3 or 4 years old...trying to say what they wanted? Or like an infant...who just cried when they were hungry and nothing more than that?
When I finally got angry with her, for not doing what our T suggested, she then denied that he told her that....until later on when she came back and wanted to talk again. When things were calmer and she was not in a "state'...I reiterated what our T said....and told her what I wanted. I told her "I want you to tell me how you are feeling about anything before you become upset. What good will it do if you wait until you are already mad or upset....and then try and tell me how you feel. WTF up with that? What I'm saying is....I want to know and I want you to do this.....this you have my permission to express anything you feel and do it, before you reach that point? If you do that, then I will know what to do, and by doing that I can be considerate of how you feel and act accordingly? If you don't do it, then I will never know and I'm not a mind reader, and your flat affect until you become upset...tells me nothing?"
Her reply was that I should be able to read her and know that just by looking at her, and then threw in there on top of that.... "and people with ADHD don't read verbal cues very well" I almost lost it when she said that since....I can read verbal cues as well or better than anyone. "IF....I am staring at them and looking directly at them or really looking into their face which so often as people do when they are talking with each other in a more familiar context, you might be in the other room or doing something else.and talking at the same time? It's normal for people to talk to each other in a familiar at home context...and not be scrutinising every move a person makes and besides....you can hear the tone and other things that can indicate how someone is feeling by the sound or their voice? Like as if.....you are watching people intently and hanging on their every move? Who does that, I might ask? No one and our T told her that in his office and also told her that she has a rather "restrained affect" when in person in his experience too. In fact, he said to her face that he doesn't see a lot of changes in how she appears to him as she talks either? He called it "restrained" to sum this up and I wholeheartedly agreed. What this came down to once she opened up a little more...is her thinking or believing that others could tell just by looking at her in the same context in the way she can do that with them? The only problem is.....she "restrains" herself so much...that it appears like nothing at all? She had no idea, what she looks like so she assumed instead. This was more to do with simply assuming...and not looking any further?
And when I finally got angry with her, and refused to talk to her until I said..."until you figure this out, I am not going to talk to you about anything. And we are not, going to have one of this sit downs where I sit and reassure you for a 1/2 hour and talk about your concerns or all your worries? That is not my job to figure that out for you and help you figure out how you feel? I am not here...to be your validator and reassurer and tell you what you are feelings for you. And I'm definitely not your mamma who gonna do that for you? No more doing that for you. You're a big girl, start acting like one. Like a woman of 60 years old, not a child who needs her mama to hold her hand and walk her through what simply you should be doing all by yourself. Hand holding days are over, you are on your own on that one."
And guess what? The very next time we talked...she said "I feel like.....( blank)" My T was right. She is conflict avoidant. She knows exactly what she feels, she just didn't want to say so. That really pissed me off but I let that one go. All this time I'm thinking she can't do it...and as it turned out...she just didn't want to. errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! And the second she did and started saying "I feel" instead...well what do you know, I was able to know how she felt and then act on that and adjust accordingly? It was like she thought I could mind reading her or something, but she could do it all along...she just didn't want to. The most important thing I did learn, however, is to try and make conflict as easy on her as possible so she won't go into a tailspin and start to go into "irrational thought land". The land where logic, reason and reasonable expectations have left the building along with Elivs. But she needed to the one to say what that was first before I could accommodate her and actually know what she was talking about? "What you talk about!!!!"....my favorite new expression. Somehow, by magic, I was to know how she felt, read how she felt, know what she needed and then do it without her saying anything? Tal about impossible or unreasonable expectations? Who in this world can do that? NO ONE!! LOL As our T explained to her. And with a completely restrained affect, that kept any visible signs of how she felt completely out of view? Nothing from nothing is still nothing after all? That was about to put me 6 feet under, until I finally forced her to listen to me, and made her think about it. She didn't want to think about, or talk about it ..that's what she really wanted? If the only words that come out of someone's mouth are "I want....."..or...."I don't want........." my first reaction to that was.....'well goodie for you? How old are you did you say?? I'm not your mamma". And the truth of the matter is.....I'm not her mother nor will I play that role for her, even if that's really what she wants? Sorry, not going to happen. Time to grow up, and act like a big girl. That's the point. But that's also the point of going to our T. He validated me....not her this time. That's what I could not do by myself without his help.
J
1) My ex wanted to be able to
Submitted by ArtGamer on
1) My ex wanted to be able to fix anything that broke in the house or on a car but if he couldn't do it, he tended to be reluctant to call a service person.
Seen this in plenty of non-ADHD people. Sometimes it is about self-sufficiency and pride.
But when I do it, it's because of experience. I would love to hire everyone I could to fix these problems, but my experience is that 75% of the time it has been an exercise in futility and a massive waste of money. In the end I have to do it myself anyway, so these days I just gets some books from the library and research on the internet.
But when other people can do the job and have proven themselves, I'm happy to let them do the work. I'm happy to hire someone to mow my grass and pay the dealer to service my car. I wish I could find a reliable plumber, but instead I had to teach myself how to do it.
2) When I asked him for his thoughts about resolving a driver's license issue for one of our daughters, he offered an answer off the top of his head and suggested not digging deeper into the issue despite my research showing that his answer was probably not correct. He also suggested lying.
That sounds more like ADHD.
3) One time, our car got stuck in a snowbank. Ex was driving. A pedestrian walking nearby offered to help push us out. I accepted the offer, which was successful. Ex kept saying afterward, "I could have gotten us out! I could have gotten us out!"
That's like #1 again. Plenty on non-ADHD people were never taught to accept help and instead interpret it as a threat to their egos. Not just men, either. A few months ago I offered 2 women help loading a large item in the back of their car and they accused me of being a chauvinist and sexist. I would have offered my help to a couple of men in the same situation.
I understand the role that
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I understand the role that pride plays. But combine pride, stinginess, and ADHD, and what you're left with is a house filled with broken appliances and unfinished projects. I was happy when my ex fixed things himself. I wasn't when he said he would deal with things, then didn't, but also didn't hire out the work. I also wasn't happy that he refused help with projects and tasks he was interested in but wouldn't help me with things that didn't interest him or for which he didn't immediately know the solution.
I apologize if I came across
Submitted by ArtGamer on
I apologize if I came across across as dismissing or trivializing your experience.
There is no question that ADHD can amplify uncooperative and dysfunctional personality traits, and that sounds exactly like what you have experienced.
And I apologize for being
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
And I apologize for being overly sensitive. I did really appreciate my ex's fix-it skills but I'm also very conscious now, as sole owner of what was formerly the marital home, of the things he neglected because they were too hard for him or required too much sustained focus. I trusted him with many of the traditional "guy" things and now I'm discovering that I probably shouldn't have, because the repairs now will probably cost a lot more than they would have initially. The incident with the car was almost sad. I wish his therapist had been there to see how clearly uncomfortable my ex was to be "forced" to accept assistance.
I understand. As the guy in
Submitted by ArtGamer on
I understand. As the guy in the house I not only do the traditional "guy things" but do most of the traditional "gal things." Years ago I rationalized this because I would do all of it if I was living by myself anyway. I'm the one that dusts, cleans the curtains, swaps winter and summer linens, puts our fresh towels, cleans the kitchen and bathrooms and house, washes the car, cooks most meals, even manages the shopping and finances and taxes. But what I've discovered over the last few years is that when she is away (visiting family or whatever), my workload is only 1/4 when taking care of just myself and the cat. The cat and I use 1/4 the dishes, I need to vacuum less, balance the checkbook only once a week, I never need to pick anything off the floor, the dining table is always clear, 1/2 the laundry (I still need to launder bedding), 1/3 the trash, and almost nothing in the house breaks and needs repair.
You'll eventually get these things fixed, they will be fixed right, and you will be happy again ;-)
"I can do it myself",... it never ends
Submitted by dedelight4 on
This is one subject I am very familiar with. I've heard that phrase 'I can do it myself", from my husband for all these years now. Most of the time he can't do it, but he WANTS to. And, he really believes he can fix things like plumbing, carpentry, extensive yard issues, etc. but, he doesn't know HOW to do these things correctly. He too, refuses to call an expert in, and is adamant about this, because he insists it's a waste of money. So, we ALWAYS end up spending 2 or 3 times what we would have spent, if we actually did call a professional, because he insists on doing it himself, which ends up in a jerry-rigged version of what it should be, which then breaks again, and needs to be re-done, over and over, costing more money.
When I first came back here to the house to help get our lives in some semblance of order, I was immediately overwhelmed with just how many things he's broken in the house. He is very rough on things to begin with, and can break just about anything just by not BEING CAREFUL. He's always in a hurry, has to force things, and his impatience and being klutzy, has cost us a ton of money. So, as I look around the house, every room, every where, it's a mess, with broken things every where I look, and it makes no sense whatsoever. And, his excuses for this is "It's China crap", (which is why it broke), and "Someone else did this, who did this?". blame, once again, when he KNOWS he broke it out of carelessness.
It may seem like I'm angry about this, and I am, because children are unable to do certain things, but as they grow and learn, they learn to be more careful, and succeed in NOT tipping something over, or breaking something. But, how can an adult, 61 years old, STILL break things like he's 2 years old? And, continue to blame everyone else for it? This is what he LEARNED to do, I believe. Yes, the ADHD is probably the trigger for this, but he doesn't control his impulses to STOP BREAKING STUFF, and it's really awful to have to live in a house where every room has things that are broken, inside and outside. These are things we need to use on a daily basis, and they stay broken because DH won't call a professional. This is not okay any more.
We are much older now, and can't physically do the same heavy work we did when we were younger, and we need a few more "comforts", or just basics that would make our lives simpler and easier, but with continual brokenness everywhere, it becomes a never ending struggle in daily living. He doesn't LIKE the broken things, but he won't face the fact that he's just not qualified to do these things. It's OKAY if we're not experts at EVERYTHING, because people just aren't, and that's perfectly OKAY. We can't be experts at everything, and do everything, and FIX everything. I honestly don't understand this obsession with 'doing it himself", when he knows he can't. What is this? other than him needing validation in everything he does? It's not working, and hasn't, but it still goes on and on. How can this be dealt with?
Yep, this happens to me, too
Submitted by ArtGamer on
(I was immediately overwhelmed with just how many things he's broken in the house.)
Wow, another thing many of us seem to have in common that I didn't realize!
Even before we were married I jokingly nicknamed my wife "the tornado." (She was OK with that.) She managed to break things I didn't think were possible, and often still does. But I had no idea it was ADHD, once again I thought this was another one of those bizarre personality quirks.
She's broken more vacuum cleaners, tools, appliances, just all sorts of things than I can remember. It certainly hasn't been cheap, and it can drive me nuts when I go to use a tool and it is destroyed.
Without knowing why, we started duplicating lots of things. I have a vacuum, she has a different one. That way my vacuum always works when I need it and if she breaks hers, not a big deal because she only uses it twice a year anyway. I have my own knife set, she has hers. We each have our own tools, computers, alarm clocks, tablets, stationary, I'm sure there's a ton more that I can't remember off the top of my head. This has been going on our entire marriage and I stopped keeping track of it a long time ago. I even have to have my own towel sets because hers get stained and destroyed so quickly, I can't even fathom how she does it.
Clearly we can't duplicate everything, but I've learned to buy either "industrial strength" items or the cheapest things possible because she's going to break it no matter how well made it is. For example, we have welded steel dining chairs made for restaurant use, they can withstand anything she does without even getting scratched. Our dinnerware is fairly heavy duty to resist breaking. But she breaks coffee makers and toasters no matter the quality, so I make sure to buy more affordable versions of those because I'm lucky if they last a year.
I learned a long, long time ago to line the interior and trunk of our cars with throw rugs to protect them. Better to replace a $50 rug than some much more expensive car parts. Plus, the rugs catch some of the mess, spills, whatever.
I always thought this "duplication" was an emotional need to "protect her identity" in our relationship. Early on she would throw these tantrums about how she wanted her own tools, her own things, and she wasn't going to loose her identity to disappear and be absorbed into our marriage. I figured, OK, whatever, and went with it. Maybe that was part of it, but it certainly has worked somewhat to keep me sane from her innate superpower of destructiveness. Simply having a working vacuum cleaner because she didn't suck up some large object and break it makes the duplication thing worth it.
But I don't even want to begin thinking about how much money this duplication has cost. I'm already aware of how much extra space in our house is consumed by it. At least if we ever split up we don't have to fight over who gets what (as much) and worry about one of us not having housewares :-D
Artgamer, do you get blamed?
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Hi, Art, does your wife blame you for some of the broken things she breaks? I've been blamed for years, and it's the first thing my husband says when he finds something broken. It's either "China crap", or "Did YOU break this"?, or if he misplaces something (which is most things), it's "Where did you hide my such and such?" It feels awful getting blamed on a regular basis for things I didn't do, or for the daughters getting blamed too, when it was him misplacing items. He must have started doing this as a child and then just kept on using that as a coping thing. It's not healthy for relationships. Plus, then if I get hurt by being falsely accused, he gets upset, "Well, I didn't MEAN it", when it was said in a very angry, and accusatory way. Hard to always "just let go of".
There was a huge part of my post that disappeared somehow. But, in it was a list of many more of the broken things (major items) that he's broken in our house just from being careless, or from doing his unfinished projects. It has cost us a lot of money, aggravation and time. I'm now almost ashamed to bring people to the house yet, until I can getsome of this fixed up.
But, it's not just household items. He ruins his clothes like nothing I've ever seen. My mother bought him a several hundred dollar trench coat, which was beautiful. The FIRST time he wore it, he put a 10 inch corner cut in the front panel of the coat, ruining the whole thing. My mother felt sick about that, because she wanted to get him something nice, and he ruined it the first time he wore it. This has happened with many nice pants, shirts, suits,etc. Corner cuts on most of his pants, then huge stains from ink pens, food, etc. It's an extreme thing that happens every day/week. This costs a lot of money to replace these things, and then he gets mad about that. But he doesnt get angry with himself, he continues to blame some outside force or event for most of these. It can get exhausting.
I recall that she tried to
Submitted by ArtGamer on
I recall that she tried to blame me a few times early, long long ago. But I've always been organized and take care of my things. For example, I even clean grease and detritus off my tools before they are put away so the crud doesn't get on my next project.
So way back when, she tried that and it was soooo clearly a lie that she even knew I wasn't falling for it each time she said something like that. I never budged, never let her get away with it. Within a few years the lies stopped and she started coming to me soon after something was broken so I could buy a new one or fix it.
But yes, sometimes she still tries to blame the problems on whatever it is being junk. Sometimes it is, that's why I don't buy high end coffeemakers or toasters anymore. But our understanding is that she is going to break more stuff than I do. I simply ask that she informs me so I can fix it or buy a new one, don't hide it, and don't wait for me to discover it myself.
The running joke is that the cat did it. Something important of mine will be missing, or there will trash on the floor, or she left a plate on the living room couch. Sometimes she will joke that it must have been the cat. I reply, "Oh, yeah? Well, that cat is getting more and more clever by the day." Or, "I didn't know the cat started eating blueberry muffins. How strange." And then my wife takes care of it.
But those are the good times. When her ADHD flares, all bets are off. Humor, communication, cooperation all disappear. The broken stuff increases and she become combative. It gets a lot more difficult, and it sounds like you have experienced far more of those difficult times. I have no clue what I would do if we weren't able to laugh together, and sometimes at each other.
For example, once I had an old VW Super Beetle. There it is, that's enough to be a joke right there, but it gets better. Once a wheel fell off. Once the brakes gave out and I bumped into the side of a building before coming to a stop. Boy, was I thick to think I could restore that thing. I didn't keep the car long, but I still provided many laughs for others with my folly.