Hii All,
I just discovered this forum and I'm so glad I did. Thank you.
I feel completely stuck right now - stuck between the deep love I have for my boyfriend of 13 years and stuck with the frustration, stress, and feeling of hopelessness - of living with someone who has diagnosed ADD and who (from my POV) is not dealing with it incurring fall-out for me and our lives, and relationship and possibly sending us into living below the poverty line.
I've read enough of ADD forums, to know, that i have fallen into the classic trap of mothering/enabling my boyfriend for the last few years while I have been basically the sole breadwinner.
Our story is that he is has a brilliant business mind, describes himself as a serial 'entrepreneur'. He's been capable of having 6 figure contracting jobs too. He is highly intelligent and capable of great things. We ran some start-up businesses overseas which we remain proud of but didn't work out financially. We came back to Australia over five years ago, to rebuild our lives, especially financially. A key challenge for me is that he has massive hang-ups about looking for any kind of work citing 'the thousand of job rejections' he received. Note his CV is a little unusual as he has run mainly businesses. I understand that about him. He see himself as a 'hunter' not a 'farmer'.ie. an entrepreneur not an employee. I think it actually the entrepreneurial energy is linked to the ADD also - it all makes sense. He is been on government unemployment benefits for five years.
Our problem is that while I have been working over the last few years, his projects have not got off the ground yet. He often says, part of it is because "you don't help me with them!, you are part of the problem". This makes me very angry. I feel that I have been - by allowing him to focus 100% on the business building, not even getting a part-time job etc at least and taking on the stress of full-time work. I have talked to him about that in depth and I think despite his great skills, he actually suffers from a lack of confidence and fears job-hunting rejection. He seems to take it personally, although he denies it! He has actually said out loud, 'No-one wants me". So, I can see the pain there. I think counseling for the latter would really help him, but he refuses to get help and get over this!
We are now in dire straits financially as I lost my high paying job in April and have been contracting off and on since then. On the day I got sacked, I was pretty upset and said it wasn't working anymore (me being the 'grown-up', paying all the bills etc), and I needed him to bring in income also so we can both get ahead.
It's been six months and not a lot has changed. I found a great site for freelance businesses consulting work (perfect for him), he said it was great, yet he still is not on it! - five months later. He said he 'wasn't ready'. I feel like screaming at him!!! When we have an empty fridge and can't pay our rent will you be READY then!!. What distresses me is not only the lack of urgency, the obliviousness to my anxiety, but also the blame game. When I try to talk to about reality of our situation, he shifts it to me - 'You didn't help me (with the business building etc') over the last few years", the fact is I was pretty preoccupied with keeping our heads above water and either looking for and having high pressure jobs at the time. He is finally looking into the consulting site this week, but only because I've had to really push him.
This morning when I talked about only having enough money to pay the bills for more month - he said 'Just sell the car', I'll go and live in a tent in a park, you can live with your father...". Great, so he now threatening to leave me saddled with debt (as it's all in my name), and poor and alone! Instead, what I need to hear is ' I know you are under pressure, I'll do anything to turn this around, I'm here for you, you are not alone". He has talked along similar lines in the past when i have been stressed and they gave me glimmers of hope. I did feel he was genuine at the time. He has so much talent, we could make so much money and be secure - and have a really great life!
A major touch-point for me is that we have (due to our business failing and not being able to pay rent) lived just in those types of poverty circumstance six years ago. I never want to return to that that brush with poverty. I'm still traumatized from that.
When I talk about having more security, he jokes that I should find a "boring and safe" boyfriend to live with instead! e.g "Go find an accountant". I also get that classic ADD response, 'Stop NAGGING me!'. At what point will he get, that I feel he doesn't listen to me, and I'm feeling desperate and pretty depressed. I am also lonely, as our sex life is completely non-existent. He is very affectionate etc in other ways, but I really miss him in that sense. I feel like we are both missing out on a great part of life. Again, I know this is ADD related.
The other problem, is that while he has the avenues to get help with his ADD, he avoids doing anything about his ADD which was finally diagnosed a few years ago. He was even taking his medicine (Dexamphetaimine) incorrectly, but again refused to get help to sort it out leading to months of wasted energy. Frankly, it's a bit of a blur.
A prime example - he has a great ADD specialist, he was meant to have an appointment in October to catch up with her and also get access to a free ADD Coach and free psychologist. I think the latter would have been amazing for him (He has done mindfulness sessions in the past which seemed to make a real difference, he was calm and happy). He decided to cancel this appointment the day before, claiming he "didn't want to do the blood test". Now, the next appointment is not until Dec 21! This means he is unlikely to get any ADD coaching until 2016. He missed a great opportunity to get help. I can't talk to him about ADD issues e.g making medical appointments without being called a 'nag'.
So, another year has gone by and we are now in a very financially risky position. I now know I've been in denial. When I was earning six figures and we had cash flow, I could pretend that everything was going to be OK and he would improve. Now, that the safety net has gone, a whole new world of stress is here.
I'm sorry for such a long note, I don't know what to do anymore. We have the potential of a great, big life with happiness. I still love him and I believe he loves me. We still laugh, have fun. We have been through hell and back and are great friends. He is brilliant and the world should be seeing that. But, I'm completely beside myself as I write this also. He says he is not emotionally blackmailing me with comments like the one from this morning, 'I don't care, I'll go live in a tent'.
Today was the first time, I thought, "Should I call him on his bluff and kick him out?".
He says I don't care about his 'business' which he is still developing. In in a way this is true, its' hard to be 100% positive about it (it is a great concept), but it's been so long in fruition and he doesn't get that I need him to look after me, instead of it always being the other way around all the time. All I want is for him to get a freelance project of some kind, anything to take the pressure off me (for a change). I really need him to step up and be a true partner to me again, like it used to be. I know that I can't control him, I can only control myself etc.. but I feel stuck today
Thanks for reading.
LCMelb
Why do you think he's going to ever change?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Kick him out.
How dare he blame you for "not helping him." You've been working. He's the one who wont' work because he thinks he's too brilliant to work.
He's just trying to point fingers at you to get the focus off of his short-comings (wasting time and not getting his business off the ground). Now that you're off work, you're likely seeing that he's not working efficiently.
I can tell you this...even if you gave 24/7 to "helping him" there would be other excuses. He doesn't need you to get his brilliant ideas to market.
How is he black mailing you?
Why are you living with him? If he's so great, you can live separately and get together for fun and interests. That also means he'll have to support himself.....poor dear..... tell him hunting season is open.
Completely Understand
Submitted by MaineMama on
Oh my, I feel your pain and personally understand the dynamic of being STUCK. I am married with children and in a similar dynamic. My husband has many of the same features your boyfriend is described as having too and you seem quite aware. The thing about myself is I have this idea that if I just work hard enough I can do anything, I can even help my husband face his problems and be all I know he is capable of too. That is a faulty belief and when I have finally realized how I have backed myself into a corner or debt, frantically worrying about how I am going to even take care of myself and our children anymore only then can I finally cut myself off.
My best strategies involve acknowledging my husband's problems without taking charge of them or the outcomes associated with them. I have needed to separate financially from him and stop relying on him for major things. I get support in other places and I just live with less at times too. This approach has allowed me to start to reclaim myself and my possibilities - including financially repairing myself, thinking about work for myself in a meaningful way (I also am the provider and when my job was cut at a nonprofit I worked for I quickly had to find something else to do to keep us afloat, and now I do something I really do not like at all but pays the bills), and realigning my expectations. I am still not sure what I want to see happen going forward with my husband but I have come to see his ADD is certainly problematic, but he is also selfish, stubborn, short sighted, and avoidant. Personality traits that may never change and that I can not let suck the life out of me!
What can you do to get unstuck? Think BIG, BOLD? If you could do anything to make things better what would it be? For me, stopping paying for my husband in any way gave me the funds to start to take better care of myself and my kids. That has been freeing.
My best strategies involve acknowledging my husband's problems w
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
My best strategies involve acknowledging my husband's problems without taking charge of them or the outcomes associated with them. I have needed to separate financially from him and stop relying on him for major things. I get support in other places and I just live with less at times too. This approach has allowed me to start to reclaim myself and my possibilities - including financially repairing myself, thinking about work for myself in a meaningful way (I also am the provider and when my job was cut at a nonprofit I worked for I quickly had to find something else to do to keep us afloat, and now I do something I really do not like at all but pays the bills), and realigning my expectations. I am still not sure what I want to see happen going forward with my husband but I have come to see his ADD is certainly problematic, but he is also selfish, stubborn, short sighted, and avoidant. Personality traits that may never change and that I can not let suck the life out of me!
What can you do to get unstuck? Think BIG, BOLD? If you could do anything to make things better what would it be? For me, stopping paying for my husband in any way gave me the funds to start to take better care of myself and my kids. That has been freeing.
<<<
I agree.
Women who are financially supporting men who don't/won't work enough or at all have a lot of power....but too many don't seem to want to use that power.
For decades, bread-winner men have used their power to control their non-working wives' spending...either by giving them a household allowance, or if they couldn't be trusted with that, just a bit of pocket money given on a weekly basis.
We had a neighbor who gave his wife $15 a week. That was it. She couldn't be trusted with more than that. He had total control over his earnings. His paycheck was put into a checking acct that only had his name on it. He paid the bills. She got her "pocket money". They had to go to that system because she had repeatedly over-spent, leaving them unable to pay their mortgage. He had told her to get a job, but she found every excuse not to work. Finally, when he implemented this strict system, she got tired of only getting $15 a week, so after awhile, she got a job. I think she first thought that he would change his mind. Nope. So, she finally had to get a job.
For some reason, women today don't want to use that same power. Why is that?
Conext
Submitted by MaineMama on
You know what? To be honest, I did not even realize this was an ongoing pattern because my husband would find work over and over again. It took three rounds of him securing full time, paid work and being fired till I accepted this was a major pattern and not easily solved. Even then, he has always expressed desire to work full time, but like many stories go, he either got fired or worked less than ideal for our family situation. These efforts always had me bought into the idea that he was really trying and things would change. Ultimately, what I thought and hoped was not true and once I accepted that I made major changes that were solely focused on improving things for me. It has also made me think about being co-dependent. For instance, what did I get out of supporting him and "helping" so much?
Historically, women did not work out of the home as often as men. Men used finances to control and abuse their wives who were doing important house work, community involvement and childcare. Knowing this history I was proud to be working outside the home and took pride that I was a major contributor to our family. I also, for years, thought my husband was working on addressing his career and was learning from these instances where he was fired. But, you know the outcome there. Patterns continued and things worsened. Now, I do not want to abuse the situation but I also am not only demanding in my words but demanding in my actions the outcomes that are necessary. Realizing this was not a situation where the tables were turned and I would be taking advantage of my husband by cutting him off financially, but rather noting that my husband was taking advantage of me and I was not going to do anyone any favors by "helping" anymore was when things started to really shift.
Since I made the changes my husband has worked more, but he is struggling. He continues to put in late nights and get paid minimal rates with low returns. He presents as increasingly more frustrated, sad, and isolated from the kids and I. He accepted my changes and is working to do his part, as always even though he is trying he is failing. He refuses to move out of his limited scope and seek or accept support and guidance from anyone. I am FINALLY letting that happen though without intervening. It is his problem to solve. My thoughts are he will not solve this problem, he will continue to work more hours with late nights and weekends and be more depressed and isolated. This is not a condition that occurs because of lack of motivation on his part, but utter paralysis from fear of failure (I know, ironic!).
As I separate from him a bit with these boundaries I have established I am seeing myself more clearly. Without blaming myself I am starting to explore what I did get out this arrangement? Did it give me a feeling of safety and control to have a husband who needed me so much? Did it make me feel like I could blame someone for things when they went wrong instead of looking at myself? Was I just unconsciously acting out my childhood role of being in a family where I was the truthteller and provider?! This is where I am focusing now, because whatever I am doing I have to really look at myself. So, back your original question, why? In my case unconscious dynamics that become reality until they are made conscious and altered. No longer an excuse though, out of strength I am making hard changes.
These types are good at "the talk", but not "the walk"
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
It's easy to say that you want to work more, earn more, contribute more, but often those are just words that they've learned get sympathy.....and gets them a "hall pass".
You're right that in the past, some men wrongly used "the power of the wallet" to control women who were full time WORKING homemakers and raising children. That was hard work....and LONG hours. I'm not referring to anything like that.
If a woman is earning enough that their household can afford (and wants) to have the man do the full home-maker and child-rearing duties, then it would be wrong for that woman to "money control" her husband...unless he's proven to be lousy handling money.
As you've noticed....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Since you've implemented your changes, he is working more and trying...albeit not always with success. That is fine. That's how people learn. Some are stubborn and have to fail many times before they'll figure out (and accept) their part in what's going wrong.
I have found that when they're "sad" or "having a pity party," that is NOT the time to mention what they're doing wrong or suggest better ways (i"m not talking about rescuing). A day or two later, when the person is in a good mood, can be the time to gently mention what the wrong approach is.
If they're getting fired for being late all the time, then when the pity party is over, and a day or two has passed and a better mood is present, then you can mention something like, "I think that your Boss needed you to be at work on-time because (give the reason). do you agree?"
In my H's case, his problems are often because he "moves too fast," and knocks things over (bull in a china shop). When he was working 60+ hours a week for 35 years, it wasn't much of a problem around the house...he was hardly ever here ...because he also went to the gym a lot. But, once he retired, he was constantly breaking things by moving too fast and not being careful.
When he'd break something, he'd be too upset to "hear" or even consider what he was doing wrong. In fact, he'd practically lie and say he was being careful. But if I waited a few days and talked to him about "going more slowly" and "looking to see what's around him," that helped. He was also stepping in dog poop a lot at parks...because he wasn't paying attention.
ADHD people are often "immature minded" which can mean that they will stubbornly hold onto failing ways until they "hit bottom". It's the "hitting bottom" that finally breaks thru the thick skull of denial.
The "enabler" has to let them hit bottom. When you rescue them, you "raise their bottom," and rob them of that learning experience. Again, that's why "good parenting" is so important with "young ADHD" kids.
My mother in law would "rescue" my H by not letting him "feel the pain" of his immature behavior. If he left his bike outside and it was stolen, she would immediately "soothe his tears" by buying another. If he was rough with a household item and broke it, she would say, "that's ok, I wanted to buy a new one anyway." She thought she was "being nice" and protecting his "feelings". All she did was rob him of those "feelings" that would have helped him remember to "be careful". If she had made him do some chores to "earn" the money to pay for a replacement, he would have learned from that. Instead, he saw all solutions as: "just buy a new one."
When H's married sister was having "money troubles," my mother-in-law's solution was to send her a credit card to use. OMG! No discussion about how the family could "cut back spending" or anything like that. That would be "too unpleasant", and "not nice," and "might make them feel bad."
Saying something that makes someone "feel bad" was a major "sin" in H's family....even if justified.
Co-Dependent
Submitted by MaineMama on
I agree, excuses are made and they are made to get sympathy. I have come to fully believe that is true, even if it is unconscious.
And, I am sure you will not surprised when I share this, my husband's mother rescues him over and over. In fact she still does. It teaches him to continue him immaturity and know he will always be rescued by someone. Not me anymore. I can not.
Good for you! His mom can rescue him and ....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
His mom can rescue him all the way to having him move back home! And, then she'll either enjoy the fruits of her rescue, or realize the mistake that she's made.
My housekeeper rescues her 40 year old son. Her son lived with his GF, but he only occasionally worked...and when he did work, he'd waste his earnings on video games, cigarettes and booze.
My housekeeper would give him money (that she can't afford to give). She would complain that his GF was "mean" to him. It was obvious to outsiders that the GF was tired of supporting his lazy ass. The GF has always worked full time. I tried to explain to my housekeeper that the GF is right to be annoyed.
In August, he came home to live with his mom (my housekeeper). She was so happy and acted relieved that her son was "away" from his "bitchy" GF. Well, now it's November and my housekeeper is furious with her son. When he moved in, he insisted on upgrading her cable TV to a top level to include channels he wanted. He promised her that he would pay the entire cable bill as "rent". The cable bill is over 2 months past due and going to be cut-off at any point. My housekeeper can't afford to pay the over-due bill and now she'll lose cable completely. TV is her past-time when she's not working, so losing it is a real loss to her. Her son pays for no food, no utilities, no rent, nothing.
I'm sure his ex-GF is laughing at all of this...while enjoying the fact that her income is no longer supporting this nonsense.
I think that in the "old days," these were the men.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I think that in the "old days," these were the men who were "mama's boys," who generally never married (because women expected breadwinners back then).