Please shut up, pay attention and don't do anything.
You'd think that was the ADHD spouse but it's the ADDer himself wanting attention. We had a huge fight over ... umm what does it matter, I wanted this and he wanted that.. and he pushed, boxed in, bullied until I blew up. He says he has a few of the symptoms but no big deal.
But the corker is this.... this morning in his best most soothing unctuous voice ..
I get the.... "You've changed and I think you need some help speech. I care about you. We need to call a psychologist or doctor for you to help you deal with Your anger.
Mr. Can't see his own behavior, is all calm and supportive, like an actor in a play. And seeing me wave my arms at him and phony baloney egoic persona doing a strategic move for self-preservation. Ooo- lala What a performance.
Now, I do blow up, and I am getting more tired, more exasperated faster, less understanding, less patient, more in your face and up your nose confrontational but it's been 37 years.
I have this EXACT same
Submitted by SweetandSour on
I have this EXACT same problem. Because most of the time I'm not angry, but sometimes I do get angry - after being reasonable and calm time after time and being bulldozed over verbally (and physically in terms of him barrelling around pushing me out of the way as he's leaving as he's yelling stuff) and not getting a chance to finish a sentence - or dismissed completely - he's not home ever when I'm awake and won't answer the phone or call me for days at a time so we can't communicate about anything, eventually we'll be face to face - and everything feels like a confrontation because he's never present to have a calm or casual interaction - and everything is so pent up because here he finally is for five minutes which will end abruptly with either a hang-up or a walk-out by him, both preceded and accompanied by him yelling and then it'll be days again before I get another chance to say anything. It goes around and around, but I've been told, in the same way you were, that I have a problem. My guy is very good at accusing me of all the things that he does. If anyone talked to us (me and my partner) they would hear a "he said/she said" type of thing where we both said the same thing about the other one, but it's not like that. And only God and I know that - or maybe some of the rest of you reading this know too. But I do feel like an idiot screaming "I am NOT angry!!!" (LOL) because of course by that point, I am, and there's another strike against me. I don't have perfect patience and understanding and control of my emotions at all times because I have issues too, cuz I'm human too. And my needs are never even glanced toward let alone met. It's such a bad cycle. I'm paying attention to C ur self these days because his words are true: no good comes of explaining someone's faults to them and another friend of mine kept telling me "never argue with a drunk". I keep thinking logic is going to work (it works for me!) But I have to walk away; I must walk away: I just need to learn to walk away........
Symptom / Response / Symptom
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
In my experience with my ADHDer wife the dynamic Orlov describes is always more symptom/response/symptom where the ADHD tornado never ends and is self-reinforcing.
I understand this vicious
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I understand this vicious cycle all too well. My husband and I did it for two decades. It went something like this:
me: I’m angry because you ignore me.
Husband: I ignore you because you’re angry.
Me: No, you started ignoring me first. That’s why I became angry.
Husband: No, I wouldn’t ignore you if you weren’t angry.
And so on. And so on. And so on.
I don’t understand this part of adhd, but He honestly had no ability to see or comprehend the fact that he had emotionally and physically abandoned our relationship and that my anger followed. For us, it didn’t even happen gradually. I can tell you the exact day that he abandoned me. He took a new job. He left and went to his new job and the person that I loved never returned. It was that cut and dry, and yet he still couldn’t see it or comprehend it.
It wasn’t until he read The ADHD Effect on Marriage that he recognized the problem. The dynamic described in that book perfectly described the dynamic in our marriage. He said it was as if someone wrote a book about us. He couldn’t deny it anymore.
I don’t think we would have ever broken out of that cycle if my husband hadn’t been willing to acknowledge his ADHD and put in the effort to move forward in a different direction. I don’t think you can change the dynamic if the adhd isn’t acknowledged.
Anger, Frustration, The Endless Circle
Submitted by Soft_Owl on
Ok, so I've learned something after years of the parent/child dynamic between me and my partner. He too huffs and stomps around all self-righteous and indignant. He has incredible trouble getting motivated and has more trouble completing anything. So can't start and can't finish. He has every excuse in the world. Didn't sleep well last night, sinuses bothering him, all manner and sort of aches and pains, can't start or finish something because "things got in the way"...."people distract me"....." you always hounding me is a downer and feels like criticism all the time I get so bummed out I don't want to do anything anymore." You've all heard it before, you've all lived it in some form or another. We've all been there. Including having the whole problem turned around on us so that everything that is ultimately wrong ends up being our fault one way or another.
Ok...so here's some advice and see where it goes for you. Give in. Yes, folks, you heard me correctly. Give in, put a timetable on it...say a year or so. Do not ask anything of your partner. No lists, no chores, no deadlines, no expectations. Don't get angry and don't speak a lot of words. Fewer words. Lots of "ok." No asking what they are doing or when they are going to do it, how they are going to do it or why they aren't doing it. Nothing.
When they start crap with you and "poke" you into some weird confrontation, just smile and say "ok." When they say "nothing I do makes you happy" just say, "all I want is for you to feel good about yourself and whatever you are doing. Go at your own pace. Do things in the order that feels best for you and in the way that works for you."
Now for you (the non-ADHD partner)....get back to yourself. Plan your day doing what you want to do, in the order that feels best for you in the way that works for you. Don't take on the chores or responsibilities of your ADHD partner. If they are not pulling their weight, let it all pile up. Don't let your stuff pile up and don't compensate for them. If they are responsible to pay the bills. Let them turn off the electric if the bill isn't paid. If they are responsible to mow the lawn, let it grow knee high. Invite friends over to the house. Put your own things away, vacuum if that is your assigned chore, leave his things all over the place if that's the case. Don't talk about doing this...don't say, "I'm leaving everything you don't do, I'm not doing anything for you anymore." NEVER SAY THESE TYPES of things.
Take care of yourself. Join a gym, take a yoga class, enroll in not for credit college courses that meet at times that work for you. Eat properly, get to bed at a reasonable hour. Essentially, do all the things you would do for yourself if you lived alone. Talk much less. Listen MUCH more. Listen to all the things your ADHD partner says but don't put yourself in the conversation. If he/she says anything about starting a project or chore, you can respond with "that's good, I'm sure you will do a beautiful job" and don't say anything else. Not one word. Then go about your business doing YOUR jobs, or enjoying your free time because you have finished whatever you started for that day or that week.
I'm here to tell you the confrontation does not work. The anger does not work. Exasperation does not work and blowing up does not work. It actually causes them to dig in harder and resist more creatively. You cannot force them to deal with ADHD. You cannot actually force them to do anything. This is not a battle of wills. This is a "decision" you are making to withdraw any and all the gunpowder that you supply (the only control you have). The only other decision that is in your hands is whether you can stay in the relationship or whether you need to be somewhere else where you get your relationship needs to be met.
Which brings up the other thing.... what are your relationship needs? Mine are to have as little drama in my relationship as possible. It's hard to believe I am writing this because the drama level in my relationship has been of epic proportion. The only thing I have not done in this relationship is pull back all expectation of him to see if he has any ability to regulate himself. I became the whipping post for his own frustrations in life. That's not the relationship I want. You might say, "if I don't pester him to get something done he won't do anything." Valid statement, been there, done that. BUT, that approach is the ONLY one I've ever taken so I have no way of knowing if anything else might work better. Nobody likes to be pestered, especially someone who has nothing of a skill set to actually accommodate what he perceives to be constantly telling him he's a failure. Newsflash: he knows he's a failure, that's why he is so angry, resentful, aggressive, withdrawing, difficult, combative, argumentative and miserable. Soooo, telling someone they are a disappointment when they know they are disappointing is truly never going to be productive.
So give yourself a year. Stay totally away from parenting, reminding, making lists, doing their chores, killing yourself to get everything done, resenting having to do way more all the time and just do the things that belong to you. Turn a blind eye to everything else that piles up. Go out for a walk when you can't stand looking at the mess of undone things anymore. Plan time out with your friends. Have laughs with other people.
If you are like me, you have spent YEARS at the arguing and blame game and where has it gotten you? Probably nowhere.
What have you got to lose if you put a 365-day time limit on how much more you will take of this....BUT change how YOU respond for a whole year. You've already spent YEARS of looking at half done, undone, unstarted, unfinished projects, chores, and responsibilities while arguing your brains out. Surely you can look at all of those things, if necessary for one more year with a commitment to yourself to NOT have ONE expectation of your ADHD partner for the year.
I'm working on that now and I can report inconsistent success. I just started this approach and I can tell you it feels like he isn't sure if he is safe from criticism and it feels like he doesn't quite know what's going on because it is so unlike any of our prior interactions. The reason I say one year is because it will take several months for him to feel "safe" from confrontation about his inadequacies and several months for me to get used to STOPPING all conversation that opens the door to him using me as the excuse for whatever. Give it a try.
Soft_owl....
Submitted by c ur self on
I hope everyone here reads your post...It's the way to live for our own sanity and quality of life. It's also the only way to force accountability...It didn't surprise me to see so many reply to gracieinnh's post...It's basically the story of many of our lives, (The you've been looking in my window syndrome) those of us who live with a spouse w/ severe add and who also lives in denial of the effects it has on them....Which subsequently effects us....
Melissa said it best in her book...No matter what made me angry, mothering/Co-dependent...It's still my problem and it's still my responsibility to change it.....And the way to change it is, leave my wife, or, live as you have stated....We can't let the things (and your list was a nice one) they refuse to do in the relationship and in everyday life destroy us emotionally...All my anger and pointing things out ever did was (read sweetandsour's post) destroy my own peace....
Thank you soft_owl for sharing...I know how much love and effort so many of you have put into your relationships...I know how special you all are....
C
Hello
Submitted by barneyarff on
Hello
I have read your post many many times with trepidation and bits of hope
Please tell what your evidence is that this plan will work. Truly I'd like to know. I'm not being snarky.
I notice that recovering from the mess and the chaos is so slow that I do not have time to wait. Humans only live so long and the curve to change this around is so much longer than the length of a human life that I just can't do it.
If a year of peace and kindness would guarantee a turn around so that magically all the mess would be gone (in Mary Poppins type fashion) and he would magically resolve his job issues and all the other things, then I might be tempted to try it. But I'm at an age where trading another year of my life for a guess that this ADHD thing will be cured if I have no expectations and make no comments except nice ones seems quite expensive. I think of my FIL who even though there was no criticism of his ADHD (pretty sure he had it) never ever did turn it around. My SIL was even worse. She lived by herself and never resolved job issues and her house really could have been on Hoarders. My MIL, even though a nice, kind person, procrastinates and gets distracted, etc.
I sincerely hope it works for you. I truly mean that. I want you to be right and me to be wrong. I agree that a year of backing off might work but I ain't got the time. Plus I just don't think at this point my husband would quit enjoying his ADHD life.
So, for me, it is my plan to move out tomorrow. I'll let him run the house down all he wants. He can stay in his job that he hates and if he doesn't pay the utilities he can live in the dark.
I've got to save myself. I truly hope I have the strength to do this. I'm tired of being sad and embarrassed. His ADHD keeps me from living my life as I want to express it. So I'm going to find my own place where I can relax in simplicity and order. It just makes me so, so sad. It didn't have to end like this. It just didn't. I don't understand why but I guess I don't need to understand. I just need to accept this is how it is and go find joy for the time I have left.
I had the functional
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I had the functional equivalent of the (more than) one year of backing off. It was forced on me. My ex-husband began it by taking a "temporary" job as his parents' caregiver, in September 2011. For the first year or so, he was doing this four days per week. The three days he was at our home, he made a point of being out of the house as much as possible. As his parents' conditions worsened, he spent more days there. During all his absences from our home, he rarely (as in, maybe once per month) contacted me and usually didn't respond to my email, phone, and text messages. He did not look for another job, which had been part of his treatment plan at the end of an intensive outpatient therapy program he did in the summer of 2011. He didn't adhere to his agreement to do one chore in our home once per week, also part of his treatment plan. Four years into this situation, I asked him to make some minor changes in his arrangements with his parents because I felt at the end of my rope: get paid by check instead of cash, and come to our home once per month. He did not do these things. I filed for divorce. We've been divorced for two years. Our communications with each other are basically amicable, but none of his other behavior has changed.
Dear Barneyarff,
Submitted by SweetandSour on
Dear Barneyarff,
I feel the same feeling that there isn't enough time left in my life to be able to afford to move this slowly. I think you're doing the right thing for you and I bet I'm not the only one. I applaud your bravery in stepping into the unknown. Let us know how things go for you moving forward. I think there is a point of no-return in relationships and if you've reached it, you know. I don't think Soft Owl was saying that doing what she' s talking about would cure ADHD. I think she was saying it would break the cycle of parent-child and anger and change the dynamic and also she was saying it's doing ALL that the non-ADHD spouse can do - empowering them to change themselves - you can't change someone else - only yourself. It's a way to stop fighting and then see where you are. I imagine it would be very helpful if there's a positive side to your relationship that's left to salvage. I think I've already tried this to the extent I'm capable of and something in me rebels because the relationship is a one-way street and doing this requires that you not try to get any of your needs met by your spouse and for me, that's the whole issue already. It certainly helps not to beat my head against the wall, but the wall is still there and that's the problem.
Feelings
Submitted by jennalemone on
I understand that rage. I have done the year thing where I do not yell, fight, parent, excuse, etc. similar to Soft Owl. I feel now like a foolish failure having put so much of my self into this relationship when it is clear that H doesn't do the same. BUT the realization and acceptance must be done for sanity. What remains for me to work out is what to do with the feelings of anger and resentment? What do I do with those FEELINGS inside of me? Are my feelings wrong or are they telling me something?
H doesn't SEEM to have feelings...or won't share if he does. I feel afraid of asking about his feelings...not sure why I am afraid of that. So, that is today's work. I will ask him about HIS FEELINGS and see what happens. But here goes...that is my work today with him.
Other than that, I am doing what Soft Owl is doing. Taking care of myself. Exercising and finding social outlets and living my own separate life, trying to stop beating myself up. Reminding myself of the good things that ARE in my life. Reminding myself of what I HAVE accomplished. Reminding myself that LIFE happens to us all and it is not all pretty, and my life is comparatively good. I would love to say WE instead of ME for all those things, but H has not been a WE with me and I have to accept that.
I also know that I don't want to stuff my feelings anymore. So I still have that dilemma of what to do with my own feelings.
I was once told by a
Submitted by Libby on
I was once told by a therapist that those feelings of anger and resentment are there to tell me that I am being mistreated. Your feelings are valid and ok. And the million dollar question is what to do with them. It seems that they have to be sorted out some how. It has helped me to talk about them with a few trusted people. Being able to speak your truth is freeing.its just me but I wouldn't waste the breath trying to talk to my DH about feelings. He has none.
Those Feelings of Anger and Resentment
Submitted by Soft_Owl on
I had a few thoughts on this topic after I read your post. Of course, I truly don't have the answer to this dilemma. I couldn't help but question everything about what jennalemone said because I too feel angry and resentful. The question was who was I actually angry with and what did I actually resent. What I came up with was "what do I know for sure?" The answer: "I know he has ADD/ADHD and Depression. That is a factual diagnosis by professionals and everything he does or does not do on a regular basis only serves to confirm and reconfirm the diagnosis. I know he takes medication for each of these things as well."
Ok...so I know he has challenges. I know his thought processes are not typical. I know he has difficulty with executive function and motivation. Again, diagnosed and confirmed.
So what am I angry about? If he received a diagnosis of cancer would I be angry? Diabetes? Heart trouble? No, I wouldn't be angry or resentful if he had any of these conditions. I "could" be angry that he wasn't following the advice and good counsel of professionals so I'll hold on to that thought for a bit. Is he following advice and good counsel? Probably not. When he looks into the techniques of life coaches who deal with organizational issues and making an agenda for a day is he following the books and websites he reads to implement the things that will give him greater successes in life? Probably not.
So what exactly makes me angry? Probably two things. As jenna said, she feels like she has put way more into the relationship than her partner. I feel that way as well so I resent the inequality of being with my partner. But the anger and the rage? Where does that come from? I'm going out on a limb here for myself. I "think" for me it comes down to why I ever got involved with him in the first place? I wonder if I am really angry and frustrated with myself for having had enough information about him, a long long time ago that was the proverbial "handwriting on the wall" yet I continued the relationship anyway. While it might be correct to assume this profound anger and frustration is a "message".... a "signal" if you will that something is wrong and we should take heed, it also may be true we knew this all along and didn't take heed.
I keep wondering. What was so special about this man that actually caused me to take all the other warning signs that were as clear as day and instead of use those signals to withdraw from the relationship I somehow told myself I should offer a little guidance and/or help with his issues and everything would be just fine. What was it about him that I didn't want to give up?
For me, the answer is actually housed in his ADD/ADHD! People with ADD are incredibly stimulated by new relationships. It might even be why they are so charismatic and likable. He was incredibly attentive, quite romantic and tons of fun. He was stimulating, bright, talented and sexy. He said, "I will court you for the rest of my life." I was hooked on his own adrenaline rush for this new relationship. I so wanted to be in his arms and in his world I behaved like a lovesick schoolgirl going steady.
The whole thing started to come undone as we reached the end of the "honeymoon phase." I was ready to ease into the very reality-based day to day of the relationship and he seemed to be exhausted from the high feelings of "the beginning." I also felt like I was suddenly the only one who noticed there were some very important things in his life that needed attention and resolution. Well, it wasn't that he didn't notice but I found there was a huge difference between my version of "noticing" and his. My noticing meant an action of some sort needed to occur, sooner rather than later to remedy a situation. His noticing meant... he noticed.
Back to the anger and resentment. I am angry. I am angry that he has a couple of physical/chemical/emotional challenges. I am angry that he was able to hide those challenges from me relatively efficiently at the beginning which must have taken an enormous amount of self-control on his part. I am angry he cannot access that level of self-control anymore. I am angry because he is unable to say, "I have the issues of the diagnosis and it's going to be hard on both of us as we go through counseling." I am angry because he is unable to say, "you don't have my issues, your executive function makes you much more capable than I am and I won't resent you for it, I might have to lean on you more for guidance and direction." I am angry because he is so invested in protecting himself from looking bad, or feeling incompetent, or feeling frustrated he relies on anger and aggression to drive me away or prove through argument and debate that he isn't an idiot even when he is up to his eyeballs in his own mess and it can be verified. I'm angry that I stayed in this relationship for as long as I have, even as I say I will give it one more year by trying a different approach. I'm angry that no matter what I do, I cannot "fix" him. I'm angry because I've failed.
I resent his apathy. I resent his excuses. I resent even with counseling we all go over the same issues again and again and he is not capable of understanding he must actually "do something"....ANYTHING to garner the praise he says he needs to be inspired to keep going. I resent that he is such high maintenance, needing so much "understanding" "praise" "love" "reward" "inspiration" "patience" and everything else a normal relationship where everyone gave 100% would just automatically give and receive. I resent the lopsidedness of the relationship. I resent being blamed for everything he isn't doing. I resent him questioning why I am so interested in him being "performance-based." I resent having to explain that everything everyone does ends up being performance based. Including pleasurable activities. "Someone" has to purchase the theatre tickets, airline tickets, book hotel rooms, make reservations at a favorite restaurant. Having clean clothes is performance based. Laundry needs to be done, food purchased and prepared, vehicles serviced and maintained, lawn mowed. Even setting aside time for a "date night" requires freeing up time and getting dressed nicely for each other. I resent that I don't (or can't bring myself) to make the same idiotic statements to him. "Ohhh sorry, I didn't make dinner tonight. I didn't buy food, there's nothing in the fridge. Don't you dare get angry with me because as you always say, 'relationships aren't performance-based."
Biggest anger and resentment is of myself. Every single time I look in the mirror and question my reflection: "Why in god's name are you still fiddling around with this guy, you truly deserve better."
Maybe the key is not to figure out what to do with all the anger and resentment. Maybe the solution to the dilemma is to eliminate the anger and resentment by walking away into someone else's arms who gives more than he takes, so you can give more than you take.
Spot On
Submitted by adhd32 on
Yes to it all especially the anger and resentment portion. Life is performance based as you pointed out. Every aspect of life has minimum standards to be met. Things like work, cooking, cleaning, childcare, dating, attending an event all require a minimum level of performance. I accept there are areas where good performance is unattainable but I have a hard time accepting that minimum standards are too difficult in EVERY area. This is this reason that I feel my ADD spouse is self serving and manipulative since he previously demonstrated his adequate capabilities . Additionally, many are able to excel in areas of secrecy, video game, internet dating and porn, sports ( if they can get off the couch), and YouTube. This is all so juvenile. Make allowances the experts say, realize their limitation. I have found that lowering my standards resulted in even less performance by H. H is unwilling to do what it takes to have a successful life even with help and encouragement. He would rather default to his tried and true angry irresponsible self than learn and try new behaviors. Maybe he is afraid he will have sucesss and does not want to set any expectations for the next time .
We have to have a plan....Built on Kindness and tough love....
Submitted by c ur self on
WOW, just reading all these posts, (adhd32, Jenna, barneyarff, soft owl, and the rest)...What I am hearing is we (I am right there with you) are resentful for the lack of effort and energy that our spouses put into the marriage relationship, and all that entails.....
Let me ask a few questions....Do any of you think that anything you've said or done up to this point has changed (permanent change, not temporary) your spouse for the better?? So if the answer is Yes, I'm sure I am not the only one who would pay you for the information....If No, then do you think you can change, if you knew it would cause your spouse to be more responsible??
Most of the changes that I read non's say that they are making (some of the same one's I made for 5 years) is only cutting their nose off to spite their face....(no sex, separate bedrooms, fighting, all of these things destroy both of us) If we truly want a more normal and healthy relationship then that has to be our goal and our focus, not our resentment and the past....That is (I know, I have been to the bottom of that pit) difficult, but it is worth it....When we stop being open and approachable then we are just as big a part of the problem as our spouses...(More so, because we are being retaliatory and intentional)
I have found out that I will NEVER monitor my own self (be accountable) fully, as long as I keep my focus trained on the things I don't like or resent about her....I have had to work very hard (have not arrived for sure, and may never to a degree) to accept her add mind, and it's effects on her....(understand now, that add isn't our main difficulty, it's the other dysfunctional stuff that can change, that is way I'm typing this)
So what is the best we can hope for?? I don't know about you guys, but the things that would change our relationship the most (we have made some noticeable progress) is attitude and ownership....So how can I improve my spouses attitude and create ownership for her in our relationship??
The things that I have found that had to change was ALL enabling or mothering....Did you realize that when we mother or enable our spouses, we are sending them a message?? And that message say's "You aren't worthy of my approval"...So I will just fix you....And, I know you all know, that a person who already lives w/ all the challenges many of our spouse's do, it is easy for that person to subconsciously start becoming dependent....(Even though Pride would never let them admit it, but we know, and others see it...) So if I have an invalid, I made her to a degree trying to take on most all the work and responsibility, because she wasn't good enough to suit such a high achiever as myself...
So our plan must start with eliminating the things that cause hopelessness when it comes to positive change.....Enablement....Negative attitudes....You want argue with a spouse you refuse to disrespect or mother...It's like soft-owl said, just don't fall to the temptation to point out their actions....And if they ask you questions don't over think it, just be kind....It will take a while to stop co-dependency and mothering if you are in this pit....First you must discipline yourself to stop it...(very hard, but doable and freeing once you turn the corner) And they usually hate it (mine did, lots of pouting and cussing lol) when all of a sudden you have boundaries you've placed on yourself where you use to be easy prey for their manipulation attempts...You actually will watch them grow (and so will you) into a more responsible spouse if it's in them.. if not, they will leave when you aren't available to be used any more...Either way you win (IMO)...If they aren't in the relationship for the right reason's who wants someone whom you can't trust??
When soft owl's husband finally realizes she's not going to recognize or hang around his victim negativity, but quietly walk away without a word...It may take a while, but, a light will eventually come on...IMO
Why should they make their own cakes, when they can get full most any time they want eating ours?????
c
ADHD 'support' is hard on the non-ADHD partner.
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
ADHD 'support' is hard on the non-ADHD partner. Your ADHD partner has a different perception of reality than you do. She may not perceive the impact her symptoms have on you (daily). HOW CAN THAT BE!!!; IT IS CONSTANT AND EVERYWHERE! But it is not for her. You can jump through all the hoops of educating yourself on ADHD, its symptoms and possible strategies to address them but your ADHD-partner controls the treatment of her ADHD. So all initiatives can quickly 'wander into the weeds' after the initial 'new shiny thing' stage dissipates. It is exasperating and dispiriting and without guarantees of improvement. I am also there and have no uplifting solution.
ADHDers experience a different reality
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Husband33 your challenges are real and constant and expected yet hard to anticipate. I find some (twisted) solace in hearing other men live with the same issues (i.e. at least I'm not imagining that these symptoms are happening within our family.) My wife 'withdrew' emotionally within the first couple of months of our marriage. ('What is going on...') I've fought for years with the experience that my wife acts very selfishly by making significant commitments of time and money without consulting me first. And I somehow have to figure out how to pay all the normal bills and accommodate her commitments without the rest of the family's schedules imploding. My wife was diagnosed as ADHD three years ago and it was comforting to attribute her selfish behavior to the ADHD symptoms. She has gone on and off medication regimes since (meds do help HER significantly) and any further attempts to mitigate the symptoms occasionally sprout and then wither a couple of weeks later. Most our family time is spent while she is not on meds or while meds are wearing off so we still continually live with the selfish behaviors (that are now called symptoms.) I really don't think the meds address the symptoms the family sees; meds just calm the 'noise' in her head so she elect to focus on one thing rather than having ten things randomly grab pieces of her attention. She gets angry and extremely defensive if I ever try to ask her about her ADHD treatment. Based on the reading I've done on ADHD I pray and attempt to nudge her toward a counselor who specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. No success so far.
Your comment that your wife doesn't notice and/or significantly appreciate specific things you do for her (with the hope that she would notice the effort) I'd attribute to ADHD's 'Now/Not Now' dynamic. ADHDers exist in a 'MeNow' world. 'MeNow' is 'what specifically concerns MeNow' so whatever has 'the laser focus' will be acknowledged, otherwise not. It is not a conscious choice. For her, most of your time (and feelings) exist almost always in the 'Not Now' of her existence. Once upon a time (probably during courtship) YOU were the primary person/concern in the 'Now' and received gratifying and exhilarating focus and attention. Perhaps you thought 'Together we can beat the world!' but now you are in the 'Not Now'. It's like suddenly being transported to the outside of an aquarium. The pretty fish sometimes see you (and think of being given food) but almost all of the fish's time is spent on more watery endeavors. It is a different reality with which you are tasked with somehow dealing.
Good luck.
Sadly, You live my life WIGB...LIke so many here..:)
Submitted by c ur self on
I love the aquarium analogy!....It's right on....I use kind text messages to get my thoughts about subjects to her these days...She can read and comprehend 5 lines, much better than she can hear 5 sentences...To many watery endeavors to deal with to hear and think:)
c
Totally agree Soft Owl, and one more thing...
Submitted by SweetandSour on
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". We're hurt because it seems like they're willing to give us so little, so we feel like we're worth very little to them. We feel rejected. And they matter so much to us - we do so much to show them that - and they practically erase us from consciousness. So, our hurt is expressed, often, as anger. (As an aside, much of their anger comes from hurt as well, but the dynamic seems to be more that the whole world (most especially their own self) has hurt them, so they will be angry at us, whereas our anger is more about how they interact with us specifically and thus more "appropriate".)
Wow! You have no idea how
Submitted by Sallysbrokenheart on
Wow! You have no idea how much your words have helped my mental sanity! Thank you for posting and giving helpful advice...I myself am at the end of my rope and had no ideas what else to do or try.
jenna....
Submitted by c ur self on
What remains for me to work out is what to do with the feelings of anger and resentment? What do I do with those FEELINGS inside of me?
When I look at life, my past, my present, when I read your posts, and so many here....I am thankful...I am thankful for the minds we have, to be able to hear and care and work together. For the hearts we have to love and share, and to make each other very important in this life....
Then I look at a mind and heart that seems unfazed by living like a victim...Stuck in a poor me syndrome...A life of blame and denial where true thankfulness can't live...Because there is no desire (and maybe even no ability in many cases) to tackle the responsibilities in their own marriage (loving their wives as they love themselves) and the many challenges life requires...
I have to count my blessings, and give my anger and resentment to Jesus....He will take it, if we believe it....My yoke is easy, and my burden is light....
c
Thanks, C
Submitted by jennalemone on
Your words are comforting to hear. It is comforting to know that faith exists in the hearts of men. Your words of faithful encouragement remind me of my youth when I was daily at peace with my total, unquestioning faith. It is really a blessed place to live in faith and to have this attitude.
I try to put myself in good company whenever I can and to not concentrate on bad company when it appears, still going to church and comforted, but questioning everything.
W didn't give me life; and she can't take it away Jenna...
Submitted by c ur self on
It's so so easy to feel persecuted and beat down when we live with a mate who has no ability to SEE us, to fill or desire to fill our obvious needs...When there is no attachment built around mutual love and care...Soft kind words, gentleness...Unspoken dedication....Sadly that is just not the way of the flesh; I find in my own self...Selfish thoughts...Why do I even care what she is capable of? Well I tell you, it's because I truly have 20/20 vision when it comes to my needs, what I want and think I need from this relationship. Even at the cost of my own peace...There is problem (in me) when I live so overly focused on what she can't, or refuses to provide in our relationship...
When I have a Savior who's Spirit lives in me, and is there at ALL times with his comfort for me...(When I hear him, and desire him more than my own carnal desires)
Who's nature was created by his Father (who is my Father also) and this nature is; Goodness, Gentleness, Joy, Peace...plus so much more....The spirit is a gentlemen, he want force himself on me, but, is always present to take away my anxieties, my sin, my over focus on another human who is completely UNABLE to give me what she doesn't possess....
Jenna I'm just like you and so many here...It's so easy to fall to looking at my wife for what she isn't suppling, that she vowed to do....(And I can base it on scripture...It say's it better to not Vow a Vow, than to Vow it and not keep it...We have scripture after scripture the tells us how to be a Godly husband and wife, and even what that should look like...
But, Jenna it don't matter if it's me or her or anyone in our situation....The bottom line is....You have to Care....(We have to know where to go, to get equipped!) God will never punish me for her Sin....And he will never punish her for mine...I'm only accountable for my life, my thoughts, my behaviors....So when I start my days being thankful for Jesus presents in my life...Recognize him, and be thankful for his Spirit...His Spirit is Power to Live, It's the Power to Love, And it supplies me with a Sound mind...I can ONLY be what she deserves as a H, and as a Godly example when I get my needs meet by Jesus....And if she doesn't humble herself, and seek him out for what he wants to do in her life, as his child, and my wife...Then no human can make her...IF the Father's Love doesn't draw her, it's because she doesn't SEE him, or hear him....This world is blinding....
c
And it's also about
Submitted by barneyarff on
And it's also about boundaries. I read that we should agree that he gets to keep his hoard but not in the common areas.
I requested this of him. He has a shed, a study, a bedroom and his half of the garage and still the kitchen table is full, the dining room table is full and the living room has stuff in it. I haven't cooked in the kitchen in months because there is no space to cook and it's dirty. This has gone on for months. I haven't yelled much about it, although I've requested the stuff gets removed from the common areas. What my husband has learned is that my requests can be ignored.
So I spend my time at my desk or in my room. I only answer him when he talks to me. I did go through another moment where I offered again to put him on my insurance then he could quit his job and spend a couple of months figuring out what he'd like to do as a retirement job and do some things around the house (the things he has said he would like to do) All I asked was to have a small schedule as in get up by 8 am, get some exercise, apply for jobs and having dinner on the table by 6 (or whatever his version of this would be). I wanted it written down and on the refrigerator so he could try it for a week to see if it could be done (I KNOW it sounds like parenting but am I just supposed to trust he would spend an open ended amount of time to take care of business? Seriously? Give an ADDer that kind of time? I don't know any sane person who would do that) He wouldn't do it, because he had a "dizzy spell and had to sit down" In other words, the excuses started before we could even get a schedule on the refrigerator. So, I took the offer off the table.
I try not to parent, but I think having some structure and agreement is reasonable. But he doesn't. He resents it all. He even complained that I didn't do my share of the housework. I replied OK, let's divide it up. Get a piece of paper and we can do it. He complained about having to be the one to get the piece of paper. He told me that he didn't think it would ever be fair. He would always get screwed. I even offered for him to write it all up in any way he saw as fair and I would consider it. He wouldn't do it.
And yet, I'm supposed to be kind and gentle. I feel like I'm the villian; the crazy person. Why is it my fault?
Now vs not now....hoarding, cleaning
Submitted by jennalemone on
A few years ago, after asking for years for H to clean the garage, working with him to organize and clean the garage, threatening to rent a dumpster for the garage stuff, I finally did this: While he was home, I took ALL of his things on my half of the garage and noisily moved them to HIS side of the garage. I got out large garbage bags and filled them with anything I remotely thought was junk. I took a broken upholstered chair and found a sledge hammer. I nearly hurt myself smashing it. I decided not to be afraid if he had a fit. I decided not to care if he stopped talking to me. I was going to have a side of the garage to put my car in for the winter. It was therapeutic for me..got my energy out. When H saw me he watched for a while and then he laughed. I was too upset to laugh. He finally did dispose of the chair pieces because I put that on his side too.
Now, his stuff migrates toward my side inch by inch, and now and then I have to repeat the hauling his stuff to his side. I found that if I tell him we are having company (especially a couple with a man he might not want to be embarrassed in front of) he will somewhat pick up his bathroom, his TV room and office somewhat. I have to mindfully invite people over to the house and traipse them through the house to the patio so that I can tell H that I am going to do that and get H to pick up his stuff now and then. That reminds me, it is time to invite someone over and tell H they are coming over a week in advance, reminding him each day until then...Then the day they are coming, he finds the gumption to pick up a little....if not, I leave his mess and may even say to our guests, with a little laugh, "This is H's area".
Yeah, it is a shame that we can't have a family meeting and all agree to do our part, but if not, "thar's some manipulatin' gotta be done". Sometimes I feel like I have to be tricky Lucy Ricardo....and I don't much like to BE her, but rather be her than be angry-taken for granted-washer-woman.
Heck of a way to share a life.
Submitted by jennalemone on
"He....he pushed, boxed in, bullied until I blew up." Then ",,,,is all calm and supportive, like an actor in a play". gracieinnh
This is SO maddening! So fake! If you know the man and that what he is saying does not go with everything else in your history and your relationship....He is almost saying "Don't trust me...hehehe....I am better that you at PLAYING a part for a few moments so I can feed my ego cuz it's fun, playing that game". I KNOW H is not "feeling" his words many times. He lies and does not follow through. His actual words mean nothing. There is a "front" with an arua of "I'm better, more cool, pity this poor other person" he puts his tone and physical stance as if he is an expert. Like a cat playing with a mouse. It seems to amuse him to "work" me. While it is HIM who is delinquent and doesn't get it. It feels like betrayal...bold face betrayal stabbing-a-knife-in-the-back betrayal. The normal response to that is RAGE when it involves someone you are SUPPOSED to trust. I am sorry your have this sometimes-actor in your life.
I am getting better at not "feeling" my feelings when he takes these infuriating fraudulent postures. But to do this I have to arrange in my mind that I accept "I cannot trust him. I cannot let his words hurt me. I don't respect his words. While he is speaking, I can calmly put myself in order and stay focused on my own agenda...not get whipped into a reactive-emotional-tornado by his crazy-making contradictions. Now go out, get some exercise and be with some nice people for a while so my faith in people does not die."
So, it seems that I must change my self to be a person who throws out careless, barbs and insults and comebacks and "play" the games H plays when I am with him. It seems the world is like that these days...throwing out barbs for fun and talking off-handedly without seriousness. I would be better off to throw his words back at him and laugh myself. We are just not well matched in our back and forth styles. I don't lie and I was taught polite negotiation. He learned how to intimidate to get along. So, I must keep this in mind and let it go. Let it all go and live my own best life.
Wow. I really could have
Submitted by cmo22 (not verified) on
Wow. I really could have written this. I'm currently in the process of getting full bloodwork, physical exam, and starting therapy, all because he believes I am the cause of every fight between us and obviously I should be the one getting help. I am called a r*tard, c*nt, stupid b*tch, pretty much weekly, but if I roll my eyes at him once then I am a lunatic who needs a doctor. Him? "He's looking for a doctor, but it's just so hard finding one with our insurance!" (Even though we have the same plan) or he's too busy with work or whatever, the list goes on and on. He admitted manipulating the last therapist and ended up only going a few times. Well duh, if you aren't there to deal with actual problems, then it's going to seem like a waste of time. I digress. You aren't crazy and you don't have an anger problem- you have a relationship problem that should be solved 50/50. I'm so sorry you are being made to look like the bad guy.
Thank you All for your
Submitted by gracieinnh on
Thank you All for your responses. It is good to know that the situation is generic -- not personal. I have two things that work some of the time. The ADHD brain is different. So all the time we see what they don't do, the ADHD person sees themselves as a perfect, kind, creative, interesting person.
Praise Works: Gee honey, Thanks for bringing up the washing, I really needed X, and now I have it.
Challenge: Look this is a problem I can't figure out, Please use your superior brain to find a solution to this massive bill for internet.
I want to say this as softly
Submitted by barneyarff on
I want to say this as softly as possible.......
::::snark font off::::::
Sometimes when I read stuff here I feel like the advice is "Read a "how to be a good wife" manual from the 1950's and all will be well with your ADD husband"
Seriously..... if I'm nice and just walk away, the common areas get worse and worse. He went back to the job he hates and it is a terrible job for an ADDer. So, I'm just supposed to smile and ask how his day was? (actually I've been doing that for some time.... Guess what? He still works there!)
OK, he worked out in the yard for a couple of hours this weekend. It needs 100+ hours of work and that doesn't include the hour or so mantainance each week.... So at 2 hours a week, only one is for catch up which goes to about 2 years of work.......
He got rid of one box of stuff...... in a month..... There are easily 200 boxes of crap to get rid of..... That's 200 months.
There are no plans...... I can't even get him to plan for the next weekend. So, I've smiled and said nothing for years..... The result? He's just fine doing very little all weekend...... with no plans.....
And that would be great. Frankly I'd like to be able to do that too. As soon as we move to a house without stairs and get rid of stuff, etc. Because we are getting to an age where it's gong to be extremely difficult to do this physically.
But I'm just supposed to wait? And smile? And compliment? For how many years? 1? 5? 20??????
I promise you this house will only go down hill from here. He will not change jobs and we will end up retiring and he will look around puzzled at how we got here. And I'm supposed to smile, be kind and compliment him on his work.......
Well, back to packing....... I'm moving out...... I'll smile and compliment him at a distance while I drink coffee and read a book in my nice, simple, clean new place.
Barneyarff, I hear you, and agree w/ you about the effects....
Submitted by c ur self on
Trying to live with someone so different is the most difficult thing I've ever done....So I understand your moving out....When a person uses up every clean space, (thinks they should be able to) to just pile junk, it's the most frustrating thing ever for someone who just's wants to have some semblance of order...
The reason I had to mentally choose **Acceptance....And physically place Boundaries is because it's the only way I could stay here any longer....And manage my emotions that is....If we didn't live and let live here, no matter how much love we shared, we would never survive....Anyway, I wish the best for you....
c
22 years
Submitted by Mimiqat on
It has been 22 for me and I usually argue fight and yell after holding everything in. I have worn myself out and when I fight him he flips it and makes it about me blowing up or says I’m flipping it. I have bipolar disorder my friends tell me no that my husband is the one making me sick. I get so stressed that I end up in bed for days from his exhausting behavior. At some point in my marriage it wasn’t until I started really working on myself that I realized I am not the only one with a problem. He has always been explosive, angry but it wasn’t until others started pointing it out and until a friend told me that people that know us in the community feel sorry for me because of how he behaves. I was mortified. I have made a decision to stop reacting so he can’t make it about me getting mad. I had this moment when everything became very clear. I feel like I have been gaslight for 22 years and now I am pissed really pissed. I enabled his poor behavior.