"I understood it differently"

So, here's a story. If my ADHD spouse is late for our meeting, she usually calls me and says she's gonna be late. I want and need to express my dissatisfaction, but also want to be compassionate, because I know she needs that more than scolding. So I put it like this:

"I am not happy about it and I'm disappointed. I'm not angry, but it does make me feel sad, because I was hoping to meet you and I had planned all my stuff accordingly. Since I don't have any influence on how soon we'll meet, I can only acknowledge it's not going to happen as planned, so I'm going to readjust my plans now, but please know this means some additional trouble for me."

To my surprise, when she finally comes home, 5 hours late, and reiterate my disappointment, I often hear:

"But I have told you I was going to be late, and you have told me you were busy and wouldn't have had any time to spend together anyway."

I then recall my exact words and hear "I must have misunderstood; I understood you differently".

And I realize perhaps she did indeed, or she had just rationalized it. Can't say which. Seems like a convenient excuse, but I know that's not how it works with my favorite ADHD-er. Still, I think I'm expressing myself quite clearly and it bothers me the message keeps getting lost.

Any thoughts?

My husband blames every

My husband blames every argument we've ever had on poor communication. If we have vague and open ended conversations it's a recipe for disaster. We have to be extremely specific with each other. 

For example.....we speak briefly every afternoon. He lets me know how his day is going and if he anticipates needing to work late. I also let him know how my day is going. We talk about dinner and plans or obligations for the evening. Then, he sends me a text everyday when he leaves the office and lets me know his ETA. 

I think we avoid a lot of conflicts this way. 

How open is "open ended"

Yes, I had thought your way would work, It didn't.

It turns out there is no way to close the ends. Every conversation is open-ended. Even if I'm extremely specific, if nothing else works, she'd resort to "I understood differently". It's like the skeleton key.

She also uses arguments like "I was late for the train because I had to pack", or "I was late for X because I had forgotten about Y". I keep saying - no, it's not BECAUSE. It's actually AND. "I was late for train AND I started packing too late". "I was late for X AND I had forgotten about Y". Explaining a failure with another failure does not sound like a valid explanation to me.

But everything can be rationalized if you really need to; and saying any of the above is just a way to do it. And I think it's usually honest, that's just one of those "honest lies". I think it's a world where logic does not apply, since there seem to be two "logics" existing side by side.

What does "specific" mean

Now that you mentioned it, it strikes me how much we struggle with definitions. On the one hand, it often feels like we don't get the message unless we define the exact meaning words (to the point of resorting to a dictionary). On the other hand, it feels like whenever my spouse feels like it, she'll just interpret the words very freely (to the point of the exact opposite). And then she sticks to "her meaning". And even if we define the meaning of every single word, there's always so much to read between the words, and between sentences, and paragraphs... It seems like she needs to be so accurate, but then it's shattered when it turns out "don't" actually means "do", and vice versa. I'm lost, tbh.

As a response to a simple, straightforward question, she often gives me a very unclear response that is really not to the point. Yes/no questions - that's a story for another time. She either starts building complex scenarios, or, asked for a single detail (what's your next step), beging to summarize the whole month (with a very high resolution, like talking about every hour of the next month in detail). Since these plans tend to change very often, I'm stuck with listening to those schedules a few times a day, thinking, what's the point, if we're going to be updating them in 15 minutes?

Yeah, I get illogical

Yeah, I get illogical reasoning from my husband sometimes. When he finally realizes that his argument doesn't make sense, he'll try to completely change his point and take the discussion in a completely different direction. It's very frustrating. I haven't figured out how to deal with that. :(

Define the concept of concept

Actually, I often feel like I'm in this weird discussion on discussion on discussion. It might be different from your experience, I don't know. But if she feels her argument doesn't make sense, she'll try to redefine words (in an absurd way, from my perspective), like a sentence is an equation with many variables, and if you replace enough words with some other words, voila, it suddenly means what she initially meant, but didn't express clearly, because she had used some other words instead of the proper ones, but it's still the same sentence. Hard to explain. Happens every day. More than once.

BigSurprise, miscommunications

Hello, Big, nice to have you on the forum, sorry you've found yourself in the same situation as many of us. Spouses with untreated, or under-treated ADHD (and whatever else) is difficult to deal with, and there's a lot of miscommunication and even defiance/defensive behavior that they learned as a child to deal with stuff. It doesn't work well in marriage and intimate relationships.

     I'm sorry your spouse isn't taking ownership and responsibility for her ADHD. As Melissa says, those who work and accept their ADHD, and learn about it, (along with the spouse) do much better in relationships. Otherwise, it can be very frustrating and hurtful. My husband (he's ADHD, and something else but won't get diagnosed) and I have had many years of this. He wants me to say things directly, but when I've done that, he tends to shut me down. He NOW wants to be a better husband, and is working harder to do this, but it's been so long, and there have been so many lies, and hurts that I don't trust him any longer.

    Anyway, he IS good about telling me when he's going to be home, and such, and he keeps to that, but he's late for most other things. But, he too, has his own rationalization for everything, or an excuse for something. There are MANY, MANY "whoops' moments that go like this: "Whoops, I didn't see that".....or "Whoops, I didn't know that was there".........or "Whoops, I forgot about that"....or "Why did you HIDE that"?(when he can't find something, which I DIDN'T hide) ......or "Whoops, I got another speeding ticket"........or "Where is this/that?"(whoops, right in front of me)............."Whoops,I forgot about the meeting"........"Whoops, I didn't mean to BREAK that?"(this is a big one)       And, if I question these, or if I"m hurt by something he says that feels more like a stinging barb instead of a statement, he says "Well, I didn't MEAN it"..........to the point, that if I hear those 4 words one more time, I"m going to pull HIS hair out.....("I didn't MEAN it"). I am so tired of hearing the words, "I didn't mean it", because THAT doesn't explain ANYTHING to me. A child will say "I didn't mean it", and they really DON'T mean it, it was something they need to be taught and learn from. But, what is happening with my husband is something else. He's spent a LIFETIME saying, "I didn't mean it", with no other explanations. 

     I've tried in every way possible to explain things to him, or try to explain my position and either he doesn't GET it, or doesn't WANT to. (maybe both) But, there's only so many times (as a spouse) that I can handle this, without it being a rejection and another empty excuse. He's refused to really OWN his ADHD, and learn why it creates issues for him, and for us. He sees it more of a "focus" problem for him, and not a relationship problem.  So, with him, I know it's been something he doesn't face because of fear and denial, which is totally not fair for him to do as a husband.  And in the process, I got lost and lost my whole self because I thought I was going insane, and/or loosing my mind.

      We haven't been able to sort ANY marital problems out, or come to any stable conclusions about much of anything, which left me on very shaky ground. I'm also now in the process of re-doing my medical power of attorney because I can't trust him to do the "right thing" on my behalf, should something (God forbid) happen to me. This DID happen a few years back, and I recently found out he had signed a DNR on me, which I am STILL livid and shaky about. I asked him about this, which he says he "doesn't remember", and "they probably tricked me into signing it",  But, my sister (a nurse) found the DNR in his briefcase, which she looked through, when they were visiting me in the hospital. (I was in a coma).  A hospital can't TRICK anyone into signing a DNR, that accidentally gets put it in your briefcase.  He still says he doesn't remember signing it. Whichever way, it doesn't matter, except for the BIG FACT, that I can't trust him to make decisions for me in MY best interest. Scary stuff.  This is something others have had to deal with also, because they too are concerned for their safety when it comes to life and death issues. (an issue not many people want to look at either, but it's necessary)

     Anyway, I do understand about messages either "just not getting heard or understood", as well as just not getting heard period, and getting tuned out.

Pull HIS hair out

I also have one that makes me want to pull HIS hair out. When I ask him nicely at least a dozen times to do something and he ignores me. Finally, I get angry and yell at him out of frustration and he replies, "You should've just asked nicely."  Ugh. That one drives me crazy!!!!!!

That's a huge issue

My, compared to my problems, your DNR, wow... I have no words.

Fortunately, when it comes to paperwork and medical issues, my SO will infallibly always go into hyperfocus - she may be analyzing them for days and weeks, but no clause will go unnoticed, of that I'm certain. Meticulous.

About this:

A child will say "I didn't mean it", and they really DON'T mean it, it was something they need to be taught and learn from.

From my experience and all the knowledge I've absorbed so far, an ADHD adult can say "I didn't mean it", and they really DON'T mean it. But note the tense: they SAY they DIDN'T mean it and they really DON'T mean it. That's because at the time this was said they might have meant anything, but at the time they refer to it, they know what they mean NOW. And they really meant something different THEN, but they don't remember it NOW.

I know my SO doesn't. And I also know every promise she makes is as pure and true and honest as her beautiful innocent heart. (I mean it.) Doesn't mean she'll keep it. Because she won't remember.

Big Surprise..................Meaning?

A child will say "I didn't mean it", and they really DON'T mean it, it was something they need to be taught and learn from.

What I wanted to say here, is not to go contrary to anything you've said.  You are right on the money and I'd have to agree with nearly everything you've said, but as I am the one with ADHD, you can either trust what I'm going to tell you, or you can trust what you said?

  "From my experience...........and all the knowledge (you've) absorbed so far...........an ADHD adult can say ...................stop right here.  Your experience with what?  Having ADHD.....or WITH someone who has ADHD? 

Question:  Who better would know the answer, to many of the questions you might have?  A person with ADHD.....or someone who studies, researches and becomes somewhat of an expert on the topic of ADHD ( to a proficient level of understanding ) or another persons experience like yours, who's WITH someone who has ADHD who does not have that level of understanding or knowledge?

I'll answer that for you since it is very obvious to me?  The latter of the possible options I just gave?   And why is that?  It's because you don't trust or believe what you hear and you've formed your own belief in lue of what is missing or the missing information you need?  You wouldn't be here, if that wasn't true ( in part...you may have many reason to come here and needing more than just answers )   But you also started this thread by saying "I understand it differently"?

Let me say, and I will keep what you said in mind that English is not your first language which would be very hard to tell by the way you write.  Your English, as you write, is more than acceptable in fact, if you had not said so, I would never be able to tell that it was not your first language or even the only language that you know?

I want to revisit the words you have used and get to the heart of what you are saying?  What I mean by that?  I KNOW.....what you are saying?  I don't have just the experience with someone who has ADHD to know that ( the same experience as you with a woman who has ADHD ) but ,I also have ADHD myself and that experience which is where I KNOW.......exactly what you are saying.  I have both of those experiences and you only have one of them?  I also, have spent the last 17 years...reading, researching and educating myself to the point that my fundamental or "basis" in knowledge is pretty full and complete?  There is a ton, that I don't know....but I'd say I know more than most just to start with and that is "book knowledge" and education knowledge and learning?  I don't know how much you know compared to me, but I will say I actually know a lot and the one area in school I excelled in above all else?  Comprehension and reading.  Those were my two outstanding claims in school as well as in English.  I got straight A's in English and I doubled up and took extra credit courses there as well later in High School.  In grade school, I was advanced to "the advanced reading group" in ( 3rd grade I think ) and was given books that were reserved for older students since I was able to read them and write book reports on them which showed that I comprehended the literature?  I also, got advanced 3 grades ahead in Art in art classes so I was advance in with the High School kids, when I was only in Jr High School?  I also tested extremely high...in foreign language aptitude and phonics so my language, reading, and writing ( though I'm lazy admittedly when I write so it's not perfect by any means )  but all of this is to say and make a point?  I sucked...in Math..and almost flunked out...but on the other end of those "tests" they gave....I was at the top of the list or score in "comprehension".  Like in the top 10% as I recall?  Math?  Forget about it....I totally sucked and I did not "understand it"  Not until actually college...did I finally catch on and understand math?

All of this is true....so you see.....a person can suck...in one area, and be way advanced in another?  I am proof of that if you actually trust and believe me?  My perceptive abilities and my capacity to understand things is and has been since I was a little kid....even beyond that of my peers at the time?  I could see things "abstractly"....that was beyond the norm for my age?  That is ....in a visual context and by seeing things in pictures in my head?   Mathematical abstractions....I simple did not understand and the concepts involved....but that's different than the kind of abstractions and perceptions I'm talking about?  Math is on a thinking level.  Perception is on a sensing and feeling level combined with my ability to see and comprehend things abstractly soon than other kids could do....which was outside of the norm?

So when it comes to words.....not a lot gets by me?  And if it does get by me....I always look them up and I've been doing that since I was a little kid?  Me and the dictionary...have been long time friends?  And I constantly refer back to the dictionary, to makes sure I understand and comprehend what I read and what people say?  It is part of my daily life almost...and it always has going all the way back to grade school?  That's how I know things and that;s how I understand them?  By reading mostly....that's the point I really wanted to make?  The vast majority or bulk of the knowledge I have attained, is from reading....not from listening to people or simply believing what they say?  I'd say, what I believe more and trust more than anything...is what I see and what I read...NOT, what people say?  I have never put what people say ahead of what I see with my own two eyes and I read from many different sources.  I really don't trust what people say that much since I think ( we all including me ) are mostly full of it?  And full of shit, most of the time?  What people "say" or when I here people "talk".....I almost automatically discount what they say?  I rarely just believe people....because of that "full of shit factor" that I always factor in?

So when you are saying that "I understand it differently"......I have to do my usual and try and understand what you mean by that?  Do you meant that "literally?"....or do you mean that subjectively and is there a deeper meaning involved that you are saying when you say "meaning"?  Look at the word just to start and what the word "meaning ...means"?

what is meant by a word, text, concept, or action.  Okay, which one of these is it, in anything you ever say?  Is it in "word", or literally in "text"?  Or are you talking about a concept or an action?  That is 4 different possibilities right from the start?  There can be ONLY ONE understanding or comprehension for each one if it's true and verifieable?  The can only be ONE TRUTH....or agreed upon understanding for each one of these 4 options?  So right from the get go......one would have to ask?  Which one is it?  What are you talking about?  In what context application or situation does this apply?  Right from the get go....you have to know what you are talking about and which one are you talking "from".

"the meaning of the word “supermarket”"

synonyms:definition, sense, explanation, denotation, connotation, interpretation, nuance   As shown here in the alternative similar meanings.....which interpretation?  Which connotation?  Which nuance? In which "sense" or explanation? I still contend, there can only be one understanding and one comprehendible answer to each one?  Different "understandings" really doesn't make all that much sense now....if you look more closely and deeply into the meaning of the words?  What makes more sense...is or are......"different capacities to understand" or "different levels" or "abilities to understand"....which equates directly to "comprehension"which is stated as:

"the action or capability of understanding something"

"some won't have the least comprehension of what I'm trying to do"  A child, is clueless as they say, they do not have the capacity or ability to understand something?  Only to a certain level, that is NOT exactly a different uncerstanding they have, they simply DON'T understand and lack the capacity until they are older?  No matter how many times you try and teach a small child....or in my case with math....no matter how many times they treid to explain it....I could not grasp it,  I could not understand it.  It wasn't a "different understanding".....if was NO understanding at all?  Lack of capacity to understand....is what the problem was with me.  To the point.  Precisely and accurately said?  They could tell me or teach me a million times that material....and I didn';t get it?  Either you get it or you don;t.?  Either you grasp it....or you don;t grasp it?  There are no "alternate understandings" there is only a "lack, no ability, lack of capacity, or simply NOT getting it?  A child, falls under that heading which for me was math?  But not with words and understanding meaning?  I got that and then some....beyond my peers at the time in school?  Comprehension...is what I excelled in.....that was where I was able to understand things and pick them up quickly?  No problem there....except in math?  Like I said...I was reading book one or two or even three grades ahead of my classmates...and I got it and I understood it....no problam-o?  That didn't mean as well as I do now ( to the level I do now )...it only means that comprehension was my strong suit and all the tests showed and proved it...again and again?  But I didn't need to take a test to know or understand it....I only needed the test....to show my teachers that I did?  I knew what I knew and I understood what I understood?  And if I didn't understand...then I knew that too?  It's kind of basic and it's not that hard to understand as a concept in the big picture or scheme of things?  Each one of those catogories or "contexts" ( the 4 options ) all have, their own "meaning" and "understanding" but you've got to know which one you are talking about......which is not exactly saying ":different understandings"?  Each one, has it;s own, understanding and what is true.....and what we all beleive...comes from out ability and capacity to understand each one individually and as a whole together?  Either speerately...or together as a whole....but with a full and complete understanding......not a  "different one" as said? 

A child....does not HAVE ( or own ) the "ability to understand" ...or the "capacity to understand".....like an adult does?  They "lack"...the aility, and therefore....DO NOT UNDERSTAND?  They don;t get it?  Grasp it? Or any other way you want to describe it here?

So to say....."I didn't mean it"....is already not true?  Just from the start....it's not that something needs to be taught per se.....if they lack the capacity or ability in the first place?  What that means is....they have no idea what they are saying?  Isn't that more accurate and straight to the point?  A person who lacks the capacity to understand...is not a "different understanding?"  That's just an inability.....TO understand,  no matter how many times you explain it or teach it too them....they are never going to get it...if they lack the capacity to do so ( at the time ).  Capacities can expand and change.....but not at the time?  It's not about "teaching" or passing the information along....it"s about ones ability to comprehend......comprehension is the key word here?  Comprendes? LOL

synonyms:understanding, grasp, conception, apprehension, cognition, ken, knowledge, awareness, perception;  A ha!!  There it is...."perception" and "cognition" and "awareness" and "conception" or to :"grasp". To reiterate...."the action of or capacity to".......understand?  That's totally and completely different...than saying "different understandings?"  What is different...is the level of understanding and the ability or action to grasp it?  That's what;s different....and the reasons why could be many different things?

Interpretation:  That could be one of them?

"matters that seemed beyond her comprehension" That could be lack of capacity or inability to comprehend?

antonyms:  Ignorance That could simply be not knowing......which simply means they don;t know and they need to be taught or told that information as you said?  But as you said it.....that was only ONE possibility here there are many others to consider?  I already listed a couple others already?

2.

archaic

inclusion.

"the word has several different meanings"  There you go.  Like I said, the dictionary is my best friend?  All words, have several meanings depending on the context and how they are used?  Sometimes a number or different meanings, which means...each one, has it's own distinct and different "understanding or meaning" depending on how it;s used and the context it's in?  You have to know all of them for each word....or YOU will not understand or comprehend?  There is still...only ONE understanding per context and per situation or use or action when applied?  You've got to know that first....before you can comprehend or understand?  Either you do....or you don't?  There are not different understandings?

implied or explicit significance. More variables to consider and narrow down here?  You have to know these things first, before you will understand or comprehend?

"he gave me a look full of meaning"

synonyms:significance, sense, signification, import, gist, thrust, drift, implication, tenor, message, essence, substance, purport, intention  Ah ha!!  Intention.  Intention is everything in Art as they say? Absolutely.  No intention with Art....then it;s just an accident....absolutely true, from an artist perspective which is what I am and do for a living?  Intention  IS EVERYTHING!!  NO INTENTION.....then it's just an accident?

"the meaning of his remark"

expressiveness, significance, eloquence, implications, insinuations   More variable to know first....before you can understand or comprehend

"his smile was full of meaning"

important or worthwhile quality; purpose.

"this can lead to new meaning in the life of older people"

synonyms:value, validity, worth, consequence, account, use, usefulness, significance, point

"my life has no meaning"

adjective

adjective: meaning

1. Meaning

intended to communicate something that is not directly expressed.

"she gave Gabriel a meaning look"

So  I didn't mean it............
cannot be true.  Right from the get go....that is impossible?  What is true....is that something was not directly expressed.  That is what is true....it's what's not being said....it's what's missing, is why there is no understanding or comprehension?  You were very perceptive in seeing the tense thing like you did?  I call that....:"time line jumping"....or ...."rewriting history".   Both of those things are impossible....so where is the "lack of capacity" and the "inability to understand" here?

What is more true and accurate is that as you said but interpreted differently which is the same understanding, but just using different words.  "And I also know, every intention that she speaks, is pure and true and honest as her beautiful innocent heart."
Forget about the word promise?  When I promise something.....I speak that specific word "promise".  If I don't say "I promise".....then it ain;'t a promise?  If I say I will do something....I will qualify it with some kind of qualifier?  If the word "promise" is not spoken....there is no implied meaning or anyhting you can grasp if I don;t use that specific word?  Promises are "absolute"...either or.....do or die....no middle ground.  If I promise....then by God if the Sun comes up and the earth is still turning....you can count on it or I will die trying?  If I don;t say the word "promise"....then it ain;t a promise if I don;t way that word?  Not that hard to understand there either.  A promise is a promise.....everything else is something else instead?

What that something else is......needs further investigation and knowing exactly and precisely which words to use to ge the full meaning, and the full understating?  Partial understanding....is not "different" in my mind?

Incomplete...is a better word to use?  Comprehension....is fully understanding?  Knowing why....there is not "full and complete understanding" could be any of those things?  Those are what are the different variables.....not the understanding of each one separately..and together as a whole and a complete understanding.  Partial understanding...means something is missing or lacking...to be complete?

You can only understand things fully...if you know all the meanings of the words and which way or which context you need to apply them, simply put?  What you believe, what you were told, or what you think or just make up in your imagination....are just that?  You need to know what you are talking about ( what source is your own understanding, what is just opinion what is actually knowledge and what is KNOWING from your own personal expereince with it?  And then and only then.....what you beleive.  If it's not true...or 100% verifiable  then it;s pretty hard to believe something and KNOW IT'S TRUE...and understand all these things to gain full comprehension I think?  Knowing it;s true...and believing it's true....are two different things?  If you trust what you believe only ...without knowing it's 100% verifiably true....is not understanding anything?  That's just taking someone else's word for it which is not understanding anything?  If what you trust is other poeple instead of yourself...then that's not really comprehending anything....that's just trusting they are telling the truth..and everyone lies so where does that leave you?  Everyone lies, whether you realize you do or not?  Believing what other people tell you....is not the smartest thing to do?

J

 

Hi JJamieson,

Hi JJamieson,

Thank you for your response. I trust your opinion and always appreciate your sharing your thoughts as an ADHD person.

No, I don't have access to the ADHD brain, I only know how if feels to be the "non". And even your post shows how complicated this matter is. So there is no simple answer, as you'd have to take literally dozens of factors whenever that happens and analyze them.

So I'll just stick to examples, to make this simpler. I meant some particular situations in my life where she said:

PLEASE DON'T DO IT. So I didn't. And she'd spend hours explaining how she didn't really mean "don't do it". She meant "don't do it, unless something something", or even simply "do it".

PLEASE DO IT. So I did. And then, 3 months later, she'd explain how hurt she felt when I did it. Sometimes because I hadn't consulted it with her. So I say "yes, I did consult it, and you said do it". And she says "no, you didn't consult it" or "yes, I said so, but you should have known it would hurt me". Or "yes, because I thought I was ok with it, but when you did it, it turned out I wasn't.

And the other way round, when I say my please do's and please don't's. And these are only the yes/no matters, which should be the easiest, because they're black/white, 0/1, and seemingly don't require so much interpretation. For how things work with more open messages and questions, please see my initial post here. All those different shades of grey make my head spin.

I really can't explain it and I'm never truly sure how it happens. I wouldn't even try to start going into all intricate details. But I've never had those problems with a non-ADHD person. I've never had the feeling to have "two totally different pasts" so often.

Hi, BigSurprise.  It seems to

Hi, BigSurprise.  It seems to me, you and your SO are still in a period of understanding (establishing a decoding system) what you each mean, when one or the other says "x" (where x stands for an unknown).

I know for certain, this is a necessary adaptation in every relationship (friendship too) - i.e. not exclusive to ADHD folks.

Best wishes to you and to your sweetheart.  Nothing that really matters is easy, nor smooth, imo.  ::Courage, the road is long!::

Not to Keep You Hanging Here

Since I kind of went through all the possibilities of what you might need to know or further, be more accurate and too the point?  If someone either has the capacity or ability to understand....or not understand...and in that moment of truth when it counts here for a person with ADHD like myself?  To be clear.....either you are "stupid" and just ignorant and don't know anything?  Or you know what you are doing and fully aware and now it's something else?  If it's either intentional...or not intentional....then with one is it if these are the only two options it can be?  Either they "didn't mean it" and they are lying...or they "mean it" If those are the only two options....then it has to be one or the other?

How about option number 3?  Option number three is the ADHD factor here.  You have it...and then you don;t have it.  You are sharp as a tack and most intentelligent person on the planet...or you are as dumb as a box of rocks?  Which one is it?  How about both?  At time....you are one.....and at times.....you are the other and yes....one at a time...not both at the same time?  Both at the same time might be just confused....but if you are sure at one moment this thing is true.....but then, you are sure the next moment...that something different is true.....then that person is not lying because for them....it's true both times....but one is based on not firing on all cylinders at the same time...and have a mis-fire upstairs?  A mis-fire or accident....upstairs in the brain and not all the information is getting through, but only during those moments?  And yes...during those moments....I am as dumb as a box of rocks to be sure.  Either you are aware of this fact....or your not?  Not being aware of this fact.....is being in denial or unawareness that this is what happens?

When you are aware of it...and you realize this is what is going on.....you stop making excuses and stop rationalizing ( when you are aware of it ) and actually speak directly to this fact and say so out loud or up front? 

And as I do with other people....I do for myself as well?  I verify and check myself, and see for myself if I'm correct by looking and seeing  before I go with what I "think I know?"  As often as I can?  In only this one area...do I not trust myself....but because I know this..and because I realize I have the tendency to do it....I can stop or or arrest it or just check to see first, and check in with myself...to make sure...before I proceed or say things at times?  And the reason I do this is because I am not as dumb as a box of rocks in reality....only when I forget to check and since I don;t want to be as dumb as a box of rocks....I check in and verify and make sure first?

And if I forget and I don;t check in with myself...and I screw up, I say so, and I admit it and I own it...then I say I'm sorry and apologize.  Not rationalizing or excuses....since I own it and that;s that?  And then I take responsibility, as best as I am able to make up the difference or make up for my (accident upstairs ).  With no intnetion....it is an accident...but the accident is in the "brain fart" upstairs............not taking responsibility for it, is more the sign of a victim?  As said.,  a victim is a person who refuses to take responsibility and makes excuses and blames others for their mistakes?

Just the other day, when I reamed my wife in our T's ( therapists ) office for not being accountable, and I got in her face and yelled at her to "own it"...as I said.  My T looked at me and said "Why are you doing this?"  And I said, "I'm sick of her not owning it, and not being accountable!!!!"

And all he said was   "so, she refuses to take responsibility.....you can't make her to that?" ( in front of her with her listening to this )

There you go......a victim, is a person who refuses to take responsibility.  One word definition.

"Victim".  And with that comes....."victim mentality".   If you want a reason or to put meaning to all of this.  There you go.  Three words fit very nicely together, for the full and complete understanding of why this happens as the reason for not taking full responsibility and not owning your words.   And saying I'm sorry is actually apologizing and acknowledging ( what ever it is in the moment ) in a complete apology with that intention in mind.  Just the words....I'm sorry...is not an apolology.  I can tell you also from my past...."I'm sorry....doesn't mean I'm sorry.....it means something else.  That is without intention....just another accident that falls out your mouth out of habit to make it all go away?  Run away...make it go away!!  That's what "I'm sorry" means, with no intention?  Just another accident....waiting to happen.


J

Yes, you've said what I thought...

J, you said what I thought, only, way more thoroughly.

I'm having a minor "awesome" moment, absorbing the meaning of what you wrote.

ADHD here (me) too.  And, I apply techniques similar to yours.  Wow.  Thank you for persevering in your replies to everyone's concerns.  This reply of yours spoke volumes to me - explaining, "out loud" what I do, too.  (I didn't have the words, myself, to say as you did.)  Really, thanks, hey?