Just stopping in....

Just an update....nothing has changed.  My DH refuses to see there are issues and he is still planning a way out.  I haven't found a way to ask him for a separation yet, I want us to part as friends at least and I would like to get through the holidays for his daughters sake (shes only 8). Today he picked me up from work and asked how my day went.  Thinking I could be honest (first day on my own at the new job), I told him it was a bit stressful because I was on my own and still had to ask alot of questions.  I am the type of person that wants to learn something NOW, I hate looking dumb.  Well the first words out of his mouth were "so you hate this job now too, you might as well just quit now".  Really?  In the sentence, it was a bit stressful"...where did I say I hated it!!!  I told him no I didn't hate it, but I didn't retain as much as I would have liked from the last couple weeks of training.  His response to that was "I thought you knew what you were doing, if you cant do the job you need to find something else".  Arrrrrrggggg..... I couldn't win!!  Then I had to explain to him why he cant come into the office and ask my coworker to find my purse so he can have the debit card...yeah she was real happy with that.  He was like "they know me, why do they care" then he says "why is the bitch running her mouth anyway", because she asked me to ask him not to do it again.  At the moment we are not even speaking!!

I miss all of you...especially you Sherri.  I cant get on here like I used to, my new job keeps me way to busy!!  Hugs to all!

(((((HUGS)))))) Glad to see

(((((HUGS)))))) Glad to see an update from you, too, lady. Just wish it were better news. My DH has been in a 'let's argue with Sherri' kind of mood the last few days too, so 'not speaking' might help. We're speaking, but I'm biting my tongue a lot. :-/

Still praying for you! I hate that the new job doesn't allow you a lot of spare time to spend with us, just always know we are here when you need us!

Sorry to hear of your troubles, but...

Glad you checked in... He wants you to make it easy for him, and if you don't want him to leave, make him do all the work. If he really wants out he should own the choice (IMO)

Hang in there!

YYZ

I dont want him to leave!

I don't want him to leave....I love him to death.  I just want my marriage and my husband back!!  But I don't think that will happen...he doesn't want me anymore, hes made that pretty clear.  He says one thing and then does the opposite, sorry thats a choice not a symptom.  I'm sick of crying myself to sleep and feeling miserable, but still here I sit hoping that he will eventually realize what he has.

I'm sure you want him to stay :)

I can tell you from experience that mistakes can seem to snowball into such an anxiety ridden panic in the mind that you think you are so far past the point of no return, so you just think the only option is blowing  the whole marriage up. I had felt this and it is what lead me to my diagnosis. This could be driving your spouses actions. All I know is how paralyzed I was when the train began coming off the tracks. Like I had been lucky for years that my impulses had not gotten the better of me before. My list of relationship failures was long and distinct. The diagnosis saved me, gave me hope, I knew I made the choices, but was driven by something that can be controlled. 

There is hope, but you can't do the work yourself. Your spouse has to stop the trainwreck.

YYZ

But the harsh reality is that

But the harsh reality is that you have your husband. You are doing exactly what I did for many, many years. I waited for 'my husband' to come back but what I failed to realize is that he was right here, right in front of me the entire time. There is NO going back. There is no recapturing the past. Today is what you are dealing with...and the person you are dealing with today is most likely more "your husband" than the fairy tale one you're waiting for. We had a horrible first four years (he cheated and was extremely inattentive..and my anger began to surface), then things started to improve. We stopped fighting, we started spending more time together, were on the same page sexually for the first time ever, and it seemed like we had really hit our pace and settled into a deep, lasting marriage. We got custody of my SD about three years later and the shit hit the fan. From 2004 until 2009 when things imploded we did nothing but fight and his ADHD (unknown at the time what it was we were dealing with) go progressively worse. I had this idea in my head, was completely convinced, that once my SD left (when she turned 18...she always promised she was out of here!) that things would 'go back' to the way they were. Reality is, they probably will never be that way again...or at least I am not banking on it. I am not trying to force my marriage into THAT mold anymore. I am accepting what I have in front of me TODAY. What I have before me today is someone who is far more affected by ADHD than he was 10 years ago...5 years ago. It is getting worse...no two ways about it. The worst part being that he refuses to admit he needs to do anything about it. I have seen it take over him and change him into someone who I don't even recognize...like right this very minute. I do love him, but I don't like who he is becoming and the person he is today has nothing to offer me. No fighting, no arguing, no chaos...but no attention, no time spent together, and a lot of loneliness on my part. The stronger I get emotionally the more I need for my boundaries to be respected. The stronger I get emotionally the more I realize he possibly may not ever be able to give me what I need.

You and I both have to decide...is the person before us today (because they ARE our husbands...not the person before us 10 years ago..5 years ago) someone that is going to be able to meet me in the middle and strive to make me as happy as I want to strive to make them? Stop waiting for the past to come back around, it isn't going to happen. I spent 7 years thinking that something was going to 'click' and he would all of the sudden be that healthier, happier person he was 'back then'. Then I got real. Accept that who you have before you is what you have to work with and then decide if you can. (((HUGS)))

I don't want my husband to leave either...but I certainly do not want to live the rest of my life this way either. Focusing on me and praying for him. This has been the only thing to bring me peace.

Here's a question

Here's a question I have offered to two friends in situations that looked similar, but ultimately were very different.  "If (things)(insert issue here) never change, can you make an enjoyable life with this set of circumstances?"  Or -- if things stay like this forever, can you be happy?  It can apply to persons with financial decisions to make, employment decisions to make, family decisions to make, relocation decisions to make, and marriage decisions to make."  One person honestly pondered this question, and decided she could make an enjoyable life with the circumstances she had; once she made that decision, her own beliefs and actions changed, and the "situation" improved.  Improved markedly over time.  The other person also took an honest look at the question, came to believe she was engaging in "wishful" thinking, and decided that no, she could not "live with" the situation without changes.  She then made a unilateral decision to change (leave) the situation, and felt like it was the right course of action.    The irony is that this question is very effective in making decisions even while it is true that nothing ever stays the same.  Things get worse or they get better.  Or they get worse for awhile, then get better, then get worse again, then better.  The trouble is, we don't always recognize worse or better... we tend to believe worse will never get better or things have never been good, and we tend to believe better will just keep getting better.  To quote Jennifer Nettles again "Hard times pass like the good ones do."

I bring this up because it fits somewhat with Sherri's point above about the futility of wishing to get back the spouse you once had, or waiting to meet the spouse you believe they could be.  Any changes a person makes they make on their own.  Support may be helpful, but it comes AFTER, not in advance of the person's decision to change.  Perhaps, as in the case of person #1 above, you come to find a healthy way to live as things are.  And they would probably improve over time as a result of your making that decision.  This is NOT the same as settling or becoming despairing or impassive.  Very different.  Or as in the case of person #2, you make a decision to remove yourself from the "situation" in order to build a satisfying life.  But in either case, it is only you who can start a change for you.  And it is only your spouse who can start a change for themselves.  I think.  You can only "deal with" reality as it exists, not as it should be.  That's the course I've been on over the past month or so.  And while I am not particularly happy, I am no longer in despair. 

arwen's picture

are you expecting him to learn like you do

It seems most likely to me that your hope that he will eventually realize what he has is unconsciously founded upon the assumption that he will acquire an understanding over time through an accumulation of experience, as you would. 

This isn't the way ADHD typically works.

If you think of the brain as an old-time recording cylinder made of resins, the non-ADHD brain is a semi-soft resin that fairly accurately takes impression and reproduces "sound" [data/learning/memories] well, and the ADHD brain is ultra-hard so that only the most extreme pressure makes any impression and does not function well [doesn't notice/learn/remember].  New things, scary things, painful things, joyful things make impressions -- merely pleasant or nice or slightly irritating things  generally don't (at least, not all by themselves).

In the early era of your relationship, you were new, different and therefore you very probably exerted more "pressure" in the memory-forming and memory-organization processes -- now you are not, and don't.  So it's almost certain that your ADHD-partner is not going to notice/learn/remember what you do/say/think/are, except when you do/say/are something that somehow manages to make that big impression.

[It's such an easy trap to fall into!  to unconsciously assume that someone with ADHD learns and processes information like you do -- even after 20 years of dealing with my ADHD spouse, I still do it occasionally, though more rarely with each passing year.]

Like yourself, I spent a period of time wanting my husband "back", and I've pondered how I could make that happen many times over the years, and all I've been able to come up with that doesn't involve the ADHD partner changing, is that the only way to return to the kind of dynamic of the early era of the relationship is to find some way to make that impression again.   And I've only come up with two ways to do that (that don't involve negative reactions from my spouse, like yelling at him or being nasty to him, which definitely make an impression but in a really bad way) -- either reinvent myself (either continuously or periodically), so that I'm "new" enough, or to act in ways that make me continually and/or increasingly amazingly wonderful in my ADHD spouse's eyes.  Both of these approaches actually can work at motivating the ADHD partner to resume their previous level of attention/learning/recall in regard to their life and relationship with you, but they are *TONS* of effort and effectively require the non-ADHD spouse to devote all the remainder of his/her life to these efforts.  [At least it has in all the cases where I've seen it in action, and I know I certainly couldn't manage it any other way, if at all.]

So, unless you are prepared to pursue this kind of path (and it doesn't sound from your posts like you are), and as long as he declines to participate in meaningful, committed change, I doubt you will be able to make any progress in your situation.   As Sherri suggests,  you *have* the husband you've *always* had.  You are now perceiving his nature differently because the circumstances are changed (i.e. your relationship is no longer new, inevitably) and his brain physiology operates differently in these two different conditions.  If you want to return to the previous *relationship* you had with him, without his help, you must re-create *all* the conditions of that relationship, or provide an equivalent substitute.  If you want to move forward to an evolved, balanced relationship, you will need some level of cooperation.  [Note:  it *is possible* to blend these two approaches, but  I've never seen it work without a certain degree of arrested development in the non-ADHD spouse]. 

Regardless, it will be necessary to deal with him the way he actually is -- *not* the way you *thought* he was -- in order for the relationship to succeed.  This obviously must include the recognition that he doesn't learn or remember like you do, and therefore cannot necessarily be expected to reach the conclusions that you might otherwise expect about the nature and quality of his life and relationship with you.

Good luck! 

"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be."  Albus Dumbledore

Im just tired....very tired!

I have NO energy any more.......life has sapped it right out of me.  I love my DH, I want my marriage...but he has made it very clear he doesn't.  He goes to bed way before me or way after me, he is more concerned with hitting on other women than he is with talking to me, he consistently has one foot out the door (he would rather watch porn and be on dating sites).....it sucks!  I thought him choosing to go to church would be a good thing, but once they met with him and he realized that he needed to make some changes in his life he quit, "no one tells me what to do and I know I'm right".  But yet I'm still here and I have NO idea why!   

Just this morning he blew up again over NOTHING!  I was paying the cable bill, which was late because my mom didn't pay me back the money she said she would, and he was all like we owe $#$%.(( and in a week it will be overdue again!!!  I told him yes, and explained that I couldn't pay the whole amount (I did pay the past due amount) because we didn't have the money...to which he blew up that I was treating him like a child and he wasn't stupid!!!  Accusing me of thinking he didn't know what was going on.  Really?? Cause I never said he was either...I was explaining why we owed so much.  I didn't even mention the fact that even without the money from my mom I would have had enough if he hadn't spent over $200 the weekend before on eating out, buying stuff for a wrestling match he was in (that he didn't need) and parts for a broken hot tub he got for free.  I'm soooo tired of him accusing me of treating him like hes stupid when I never have and never would...he just has very unrealistic expectations of what we can pay on $1200.00 a month!!!!  Now he is locked in the bedroom "napping" for the day because "he cant stand the sight of me".

Oh.My.Goodness...

I swear that your hubby and mine are essentially one in the same.

Well I guess I can say at least your hubby didn't buy an apocolypse(sp?) kit. My hubby is on this kick that all the riots that are occurring are going to happen here in Sacramento, CA and he decided to buy hundreds of dollars of canned food and other assorted junk we do not need. If you saw our pantry prior to him buying all of this new stuff you would think that we were a family of at least 6 or more and we only are a family of 3. Ugh...I was like really? Did we really need more fricken canned food that I will not eat? He replied, "Well when there are no grocery stores you will be bartering s#x for these canned peaches right here..." Um, whatever...

Which leads me to the sex thing too. My husband also has a huge issue with porn stating that every guy is addicted to it, it's normal and that I need to get over him watching it! Frankly, for the most part it doesn't bother me unless I try to initiate sex that evening and he says he's too tired or whatever health excuse he tends to use. Then I find out later he has looked at porn all night. I guess I am kinda past the point of caring especially since sex the last 2 years has been inconsistent and lacking of any emotional connection. It's like the nano second he is finished he jumps off and takes a shower or goes to his room. Oh yeah we have separate bedrooms. However...sometimes he will beg and plead for sex and tell me that I need to give him sex because we are married and he didn't marry me so that he could watch porn like a single man.... Ugh, it's always hit or miss with him and I am always the one to blame.

My hubby also had issues with talking to other women. I had every password, e-mail account and access to everything he does online or on his phone. I told him that if it ever occurred again, that I would file for divorce....we have had 3 situations with him...one resulted in a woman having his child.

Long lost twin...

I think your husband is mine's long lost twin.....really I do!  He is either online or shutting himself in the bedroom all night (says he needs his "downtime").  Sex?  What's that?  Really I will try to initiate it and he will turn me down only to be out in the living room 20 later watching porn!!  He is constantly looking for something better (he will never find it) and lies to them about me.  I know how to get into most of his accounts...he doesn't realize that I know everything hes doing.  After Christmas ( I don't want to ruin Christmas for his daughter) he will need to make a choice...me or them.  I will not deal with this anymore, either I come first and he is faithful or we are done.  I am sure I will be the bad guy, but really I don't care anymore, its been 6 years I have forgiven him each time he cheated on me (twice physically, many more emotionally).  Forgiveness just isn't there anymore unless he backs up the words with actions and he really changes. Don't get me wrong, I love my husband and want my marriage, but at this time I see no way to continue forward.

He has gotten a bit of fame being a intern on a radio show and he is playing it for all its worth.  The girls and "perks" are more important than his family and that sucks!  Someday he may figure out what he is throwing away, but I doubt it.

=(...at least I feel as though I am not alone..

Yeah, my hubby and I had many hearts to hearts and I actually moved out for 2 months about 2 years ago. Although we still have problems, I will say the the infidielity issues are a lot better now than they were back then. I think he has run out of options and now can be faithful because there are a lot less girls willing to look his way. He also saw all that he would be losing if I moved out and took our son.

However, with that said...We still have many communication issues. He often still needs to talk to other people...women and men. I am always the last to know about stuff that I feel should be discussed with me first. It's as though I am an after thought for him. We have separate rooms where he can be a slob and watch porn all night.

Unfortunately, I got to the point with my hubby where he no longer offered the choice to make the important discussions in my life. It seems like your are going to have to get yourself into the position where you can make the financial and emotional choice to stay or leave and advise him of how you expect to be treated and how you will respond if you are not treated that way. I did this with my hubby before I came back to live in our home. I can say that it hasn't been perfect and there are stressful times but I can say that his attitude and desire to work on our problems have improved enough for me to stay and work on our marriage.

As far as the porn goes...I have given up! If he wants to look at it that's his choice. I will not stand him being inappropriate with other women online or in person...but if he "needs" porn to keep his parts in his pants than so be it! I cannot regulate that and I will not let it make me feel like less of a woman, I am beautiful, loving and willing wife. If he'd rather watch some nasty girl whom he has no emotional ties than be with his loving wife then he is losing out. I've learned to find intimacy from other avenues,,,like developing closer friendships with other women or spending more time with my son. My hubby isn't fulfilling this and I could beg him too give me more attention...which will justlikely turn into nagging...or I can do what I need to get the emotional connection with others that I need.

 

If he wasn't willing to change at least a bit I would be gone...but he's made some large progress after I essentially told him what I needed from him that was essentially something he could and would do.

 

 

 

 

 

Choices

Financially, everything is in my name and I am the only one working so I wouldn't have any problems there (learned from my first husband that lesson).  Emotionally is where I am having the problems.  He thinks I am oblivious to all that is going on and that he can "have his cake and eat it too".  I just gotta get the guts to tell him the game is up and he has lost.  The lies and omissions about me to others has pretty much left me empty, he denies me or lies about us being together so that he can have the attention of all the other women out there.  He pretty much summed it up the other day when I mentioned all the recent calls to his ex-girlfriend (from 10 years ago) and he informed me that I was not his mother, he was an adult, he was friends with all his ex's and that he would do what he wanted, when he wanted and with whom he wanted.  I guess when your in your thirties, having 18 year olds throw themselves at you is appealing.

I am so happy that your husband is willing to see there is an issue and work on it with you.  Mine will not even see that there might be an issue, he consistently accuses me of "trying to fix something that isn't broken" meaning our relationship.  My take on that is: if it wasn't broken, we wouldn't be having problems and he would be satisfied and happy with what he has.  I could be wrong there but that's just how I see it.

 

Re: Choices...

Yeah, I am in the same position. Everything is in my name and I am the one that has full time employment. He does have a  business which he runs from home but the money is never consistent. Some months he does very well and has enough to pay for the house and whatever else he wants...and then some months he barely has enough for the house payment. Those months tend to be the worst...heck all months are pretty crappy when it comes to money because in his head he thinks that he makes more than me...and he doesn't. He also doesn't value that my job provides medical coverage for our family to the tune of $1300 a month that we do not have to pay and my job will also provide our retirement, since he has zero intentions on saving for our future.

The continued infidelity would drive me to divorce. It is very hard to believe that most women are so disgusting and have so little worth that they will sexually talk to and cheat with married men. If your hubby doesn't change it's because they still think that they can get away with it. When I nutted up on my hubby and left, he realized that I wasn't going to be just another woman that just sat there and accepted his cheating anymore. (emotionally or physically) It's hard and it took numerous situations for us to get to that point. I will say that if ever happened again I would file for divorce.

The saddest part of it all is

The saddest part of it all is that it IS broken, he is breaking it (95% anyway) and he doesn't see it. To me, it is broken when one party is unhappy...especially as unhappy as he makes you. So, whether it is broken in his mind or not, he should be constantly aware of whether or not you're happy, how he is making/not making you happy, and working to reach some kind of compromise that makes everyone happy. This works both ways. He really does need a reality check...

((((HUGS)))) Still praying for you!

Thanks Sherri

Sherri...I just don't know what to do anymore.  I'm really to the point of giving up!  I can't trust him as far as I can see him.....he has an excuse for everything......I just can't do it anymore.