I just came across this site, and SO many things hit home with me...Like others have said, I feel like I'm reading about my own situation. It's all so eerily similar! Permit me to share some ways in which I related to the other posts. It would do me some good to vent.
- My husband is 100% the "lecturer" who wants a full-time listener. He talks to me, never with me. And then, inexplicably, he tells me he wishes I would talk more, and asks why I never talk to him. I appreciate the sentiment -- I think he really thinks he wants me to talk, but I know that's actually the last thing he wants. I also appreciate how intelligent he is; but it gets old! He'll wax pedagogical about molecules and brain chemistry for hours on end without taking a breath (I'm usually zoned out by the third sentence, but he doesn't seem to care). I like that he is passionate and enjoys talking about his field, but I'm a grad student -- the last thing I want when I come home from school is to sit through another lecture. Other times, he'll just chat about nothing, or make silly jokes, or recite scenes from movies (and I'm like, uh huh, I saw it too). And he cannot make it through a movie or TV show without talking the entire time. If there's something I really want to watch, I'll do it with my ipad and earphones.
Whenever I do try (emphasis on the word TRY) to talk, he interrupts me. And when I point out that he's interrupted me, he gets all worked up and says something to the effect of: "Okay, go, go, finish your sentence. Come on, say it already!" His body language also speak volumes; he tenses up and nods real fast, and stops just short of the "okay get to the point" hand twirl. Of course, I then feel horribly on the spot and regret even trying to say one lousy sentence. So I've resorted to being a silent figure in the house, for the most part. This has perpetuated the vicious cycle of his just talking more to, as he puts it, "fill the silence." What I wouldn't give for some silence!! He also gets angry when I zone in on my school work (which is admittedly a lot), but God help you if you interrupt him when he's zoned in on something!
- He also has serious bouts of rage and cruelty. He is the one with all money (he had it before we married, I came from nothing), and he's constantly rubbing this in my face. On his nice days, it's all "the money is half yours, get whatever you want!" But on bad days, everything is thrown in my face. He'll say, "I pay your rent, I pay your tuition, I pay all your bills, and this is how you treat me? After all I've done for you?" How did I treat him, what did I do wrong? It could be anything. Usually, it's that I didn't read his mind and therefore didn't do something he expected me to do (get his dry cleaning, for example). He also constantly runs out of his medications (either by misusing or by not being on top of his refills), and when I don't take full responsibility for this (by contacting his dr. [and making up some excuse if necessary], and by running to the pharmacy the second it is filled), then it's World War III. In short, he's a blame-shifter extraordinaire.
- He insults me (calls me stupid, moron, idiot, etc.), tells me I'm nothing without him, tells me I'm a bad wife, insults my mother (I don't have the heart to tell her, bc she is his biggest fan), and he loves telling me how I would end up in the gutter without him ("Go back to your pathetic life, maybe then you'll appreciate me!"). While he's never been violent directly towards me, he throws things and breaks things on a pretty regular basis.
- Worse than the insults are the threats. Again, he never threatens to harm me physically, but he is constantly threatening to harm or embarrass me in other ways. His "go to" is to say he won't pay my tuition anymore, or that he'll challenge the payment already made. His second favorite "go to" is to say he'll break my computer. As a student, this is my most important possession -- it has all my notes, papers, etc., and he knows that of course. Just the other day (while I was out picking up his medication, mind you), he texted me a picture of my computer with the caption "SMASH." He then told me I had 1 minute to get home before that happened. He's also threatened to email colleagues, professors, and family members and tell them secrets about me. He's never come through on any of these threats, but the level of vindictiveness is what terrifies me.
- Like others, I've spent many a night crying in parking lots or crying myself to sleep. To make matters worse, we live in a loft -- i.e., basically one single room. I have NO WHERE to go or hide when he starts yelling at me. I can go in the bathroom (the only place with a door), but I can only stay in there for so long. I've come to love earplugs, earphones, and 24 hour restaurants. I feel childish sticking my fingers in my ears, but sometimes it's my only immediate escape. Leaving is always the best option, but every time I do I always resent having to leave. I've spent several nights in a hotel room, but "wasting money on that" is just one more thing for him to yell at me about. And often, when I do leave, I'll just get "yelled at" via text, so I'm never totally away. I've gotten better at ignoring those, but it's not always easy.
Last week, ironically during our date night (the thing we're trying to do to improve / save our marriage) we were having a great time at dinner until he brought up an old argument and insisted on discussing it. He started harping on me (why did I pick up his medication 2 hours later than I said I would?), he got real heated, his voice started to raise, and he started angrily moving things around on the table (throwing his napkin down, pushing plates, pouring drinks so that they spilled), so, as per usual, I went silent. But it started getting embarrassing, so finally I got up and walked out (something I've never done before). Of course, now I'm in the doghouse for that. "How dare I do that to someone who is paying for my dinner!"
- He also twists my words / puts words in my mouth. Actually, his whole family is skilled at this. I like to think I am relatively coherent with my word choices, but he and his family have a remarkable ability to turn a well-meaning remark into a slanderous insult or offense. When I first learned his mother has a Master's degree, I said something along the lines of "oh, wow!" This was twisted into me being shocked that she was able to accomplish something bc I obviously think she is too stupid to do anything like that. (???) This kind of stuff used to baffle and really upset me. I would go overboard trying to defend what I actually meant. Now I know that it doesn't matter what I say. They will twist anything if they are intent on finding something to twist. Again, my (probably unhealthy) coping strategy has been to be as silent as possible. "Anything I say can and will be held against me" is what I remind myself. But even this doesn't work. One time I shrugged at his mother--the "shrug heard 'round the world" as I like to call it--and this later came back to haunt me big time. I was disrespectful, rude, and offensive, or some nonsense like that, and I got punished for days for it by getting yelled at by my husband. I know these are mother-in-law examples (and I used them bc I actually find them kind of funny now), but my husband will twist my words (or non-words!) in just the same way.
- He also reads my texts and emails, and then gets mad at me for them -- and without fail, it's bc he misunderstood or misread something! I've been accused of countless things that are not even remotely true (affairs, talking shit about him, etc.).
- My husband is also a good liar. He lies to therapists, usually regarding medication, but a few years ago he lied to a therapist by making up a child!! He invented this daughter that we had, and would go in and tell stories about her. Thank God he doesn't go to that therapist anymore, bc his stories started getting ridiculous (he couldn't keep track of her age, and I think he changed her name a few times). Yes, he told me about all this (not sure why). They say trust is the most important thing in a marriage, but I never fully trust anything he says. Not that I think everything he says is untrue, but I sure have learned to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
- He has a litany of "valid" excuses for his behavior. He's in pain (he suffers from headaches), it's his ADHD, or it's just "the way he is." Sure, at least the first two can be real explanations for bad behavior, and I do cut him a LOT of slack. But at what point is my (emotional) suffering not justified by these valid excuses? At what point is it too much? At what point is he just a jerk who happens to also have pain and ADHD? Of course, I get no such excuses. Like everyone, I mess up and behave badly myself sometimes, but I am not allowed to pull any of these "get out of jail free cards." I understand that that's just being an adult who has to take responsibility for her actions, but I do find myself resentful that he "gets" to yell at me and vent all his anger with total impunity. I daydream about getting to finally say all the things I want to to him, and then using the Men in Black memory eraser on him.
We have gone to a few marriage counseling sessions (and I hope to keep going), but believe it or not it's all him doing the talking...When our therapist tries to bring me in, I find myself dumbfounded and speechless bc I'm so used to reverting to silence. So nothing I say is actually what I really want to say (I'm so out of practice "talking about feelings" in a constructive way). I should clarify, when I say my usual strategy is to revert to silence, that is very true -- but I do have my breaking point. I've done my fair share of yelling back during arguments. I hate falling into that, and I've said many things which were cruel and that I regret. And he has the memory of an elephant -- he never hesitates to throw these mistakes in my face, despite my sincere and abundant apologies.
- Lastly, what resonated the most with me from other people's posts are the expressions of love for their husbands. Most people, if they read any one of these things above, let alone all of them, would think I am INSANE for staying with him. But, despite it all, I still love him. I still see the good in him -- bc it does come out, in full force, on his good days. But the good is a Sword of Damocles hanging above my head. Whenever I consider leaving him--lately, it's been a lot--I can never pull the trigger (or even come close) bc I actually love the f-ing bastard. When I fantasize about leaving him, I imagine myself being quite happy -- aside from the fact that I would miss him terribly. It's heart-wrenching even to think of not having him in my life. It would leave a giant whole in my heart. So, instead, I stay but let him continually beat up my heart...Does that make any sense? I don't entirely understand myself on this.
Well, I don't know if anyone will read this long essay, but it sure felt good to get it out! I've never had a place to share these thoughts, bc I know the one and only reaction I would get would be the old "You better leave him, Honey!" Thanks to anyone who did read, and thank you in general for his forum.
-R
Wow....I think you are my twin and your H is my
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I hope you realize that your H doesn't just have ADHD....he also has a PD
. >>>> - My husband is 100% the "lecturer" who wants a full-time listener. He talks to me, never with me. And then, inexplicably, he tells me he wishes I would talk more, and asks why I never talk to him. I appreciate the sentiment -- I think he really thinks he wants me to talk, but I know that's actually the last thing he wants. I also appreciate how intelligent he is; but it gets old! He'll wax pedagogical about molecules and brain chemistry for hours on end without taking a breath (I'm usually zoned out by the third sentence, but he doesn't seem to care). >>>>>>
My H does EXACTLY the same thing. He talks constantly, does not really want me saying anything unless it's something complimentary to him, and god-forbid if I say anything that contradicts/corrects what he is saying. H often retells stories WRONG.....wrong people, wrong dates, wrong order of events, wrong description, wrong place, etc. If he is "on a roll" (which is how I describe how he talks non-stop), and something "stops" him he finds that "stopping" so jarring that he is immediately annoyed. One time he told an old story completely wrong, wrongly blaming my brother for something that he did NOT do, and when I corrected him (nicely), H exploded. My son's GF was there and was shocked. H started using the F word and called me names. All because I just gently corrected what actually happened. Later, when I was able to PROVE that I was right, there was no apology....there was no learning from that.
>>>>> I like that he is passionate and enjoys talking about his field, but I'm a grad student -- the last thing I want when I come home from school is to sit through another lecture. Other times, he'll just chat about nothing, or make silly jokes, or recite scenes from movies (and I'm like, uh huh, I saw it too). And he cannot make it through a movie or TV show without talking the entire time. If there's something I really want to watch, I'll do it with my ipad and earphones. >>>>
Oh wow! So true. Thank goodness for things like TiVo and DVRs....otherwise I would miss half of what was said on TV. I still miss a lot of what's on the radio because of him.
>>>> Whenever I do try (emphasis on the word TRY) to talk, he interrupts me. And when I point out that he's interrupted me, he gets all worked up and says something to the effect of: "Okay, go, go, finish your sentence. Come on, say it already!" His body language also speak volumes; he tenses up and nods real fast, and stops just short of the "okay get to the point" hand twirl. >>>>
Oh my, so true!!! It's like his motor is running high, and to let me talk at all means that his motor will over-heat! seriously. I've been told to say what I want to say in 30 seconds. Or I've been told, "just say yes or no, nothing else." Simply because he wants all the time to talk. Then he complains that we don't have "conversations"!!! ugh. and, he'll complain that I "talk" with other people,,....why not him? lol......uh...because other people let me talk!!!
! >>>>>> Of course, I then feel horribly on the spot and regret even trying to say one lousy sentence. So I've resorted to being a silent figure in the house, for the most part. This has perpetuated the vicious cycle of his just talking more to, as he puts it, "fill the silence." What I wouldn't give for some silence!! >>>
I have told H recently, "I love silence. I NEED silence." I told him that as a SAHM I am used to having lots of silence in the home. Our kids were studious, so when they were home, they were either studying or we'd have a nice chat at dinner or watch TV...in silence. But there was lots of silence. happy silence. (H worked a lot back then, and went to the gym a LOT back then, so he was gone a lot......so happy silence). Now, H is retired and talking constantly. My only peace is when he's sleeping.
>>>> He also gets angry when I zone in on my school work (which is admittedly a lot), but God help you if you interrupt him when he's zoned in on something! >>>
Same here. I run a business and it takes a lot of my time. H hates that. but, when he's focused on something, he doesn't want to be interrupted
>>>>>.- He also has serious bouts of rage and cruelty. >>>>>>
Same with H....very cruel at times...very mean.
>>>>>> He is the one with all money (he had it before we married, I came from nothing), and he's constantly rubbing this in my face. On his nice days, it's all "the money is half yours, get whatever you want!" But on bad days, everything is thrown in my face. He'll say, "I pay your rent, I pay your tuition, I pay all your bills, and this is how you treat me? >>>>
Yes, I have gotten the same thing from H. He used to make all the money (high salary), but then I got a good-sized inheritance and suddenly he was no longer in that "bossy" position about money. lol And I used some of that money to start a very successful business.....so I need his money even less now. (well, his money isn't really "his"...it's OURS since it's from earnings while married.....while my inheritance is SOLELY MINE because it wasn't earned by me...it was a gift from my parents.) Once you're graduated and earning money.....your h will find something else to hold over your head. Believe me. Be prepared. Protect everything you value. It will all be "up for grabs" for your H to use as threats.
>>>> After all I've done for you?" How did I treat him, what did I do wrong? It could be anything. Usually, it's that I didn't read his mind and therefore didn't do something he expected me to do (get his dry cleaning, for example). He also constantly runs out of his medications (either by misusing or by not being on top of his refills), and when I don't take full responsibility for this (by contacting his dr. [and making up some excuse if necessary], and by running to the pharmacy the second it is filled), then it's World War III. In short, he's a blame-shifter extraordinaire. >>>>
exactly. However, I do NOTHING for his meds. That is 100% his job. He knows that since i don't agree with some of his meds, I would never get them for him. He knows that if he ever became an invalid and depended on me to get his meds, I would refuse to get half of them....lol.
>>>> - He insults me (calls me stupid, moron, idiot, etc.), tells me I'm nothing without him, tells me I'm a bad wife, insults my mother (I don't have the heart to tell her, bc she is his biggest fan), and he loves telling me how I would end up in the gutter without him ("Go back to your pathetic life, maybe then you'll appreciate me!"). >>>>
yes...that's because he KNOWS that you are smarter than he is. YES
>>>>> While he's never been violent directly towards me, he throws things and breaks things on a pretty regular basis. >>>>
Yes...that is why I say protect everything. I have a second cell phone (yes it costs more to have two phones), but that's because H thinks nothing of "grabbing mine" when he's angry....he's even broken one in anger. Since then, I marched to the AT&T store and signed up for another phone, while also replacing the broken one. So, I have one phone hidden so that i will always have at least one phone. H has "thrown away my clothes in anger". Yes, when he "ordered me" to come home one night and I refused, he went into my closet, took out over half of my clothes and threw them away in an unknown dumpster. So, now I keep some of my fave clothes hidden from him, and some at a location that he knows nothing about. I also keep family treasures hidden elsewhere because he'd threaten to break those in anger "to get his way."
>>>>> - Worse than the insults are the threats. Again, he never threatens to harm me physically, but he is constantly threatening to harm or embarrass me in other ways. His "go to" is to say he won't pay my tuition anymore, or that he'll challenge the payment already made. >>>>>
Yes, same here. I've learned to protect the things that I treasure. We have a son in med school. When son was accepted, H was angry at both of us and he threatened to call the med school to get his acceptance rescinded. Luckily, son had 3 acceptances and H didn't know which school he was going to attend. And, I was assured that no med school would take his calls, anyway. That son no longer has any contact with him. They've been estranged for over 2 years now.
>>>> His second favorite "go to" is to say he'll break my computer. As a student, this is my most important possession -- it has all my notes, papers, etc., and he knows that of course. Just the other day (while I was out picking up his medication, mind you), he texted me a picture of my computer with the caption "SMASH." He then told me I had 1 minute to get home before that happened. >>>>
Make sure you have EVERYTHING backed up to the Cloud....and email everything. My H does the SAME threats. Says things like, "you get home in one minute or I'm taking your pets to a shelter far away and you won't know where." Now, when I leave when he's acting crazy, I take my pets with me.
>>>>> He's also threatened to email colleagues, professors, and family members and tell them secrets about me. He's never come through on any of these threats, but the level of vindictiveness is what terrifies me. >>>>>
My H does the same. My family is aware of his craziness so they (and friends, etc) have been told to never accept any communications from him. I told H that, so that threat disappeared. BTW...no prof would listen to anything from him. If you're in the USA, no prof would talk to him to discuss you. There are FERPA laws and the profs can't discuss anything about YOU to your spouse without your permission. If you're in another country, likely there are similar laws.
>>>>> - Like others, I've spent many a night crying in parking lots or crying myself to sleep. To make matters worse, we live in a loft -- i.e., basically one single room. I have NO WHERE to go or hide when he starts yelling at me. I can go in the bathroom (the only place with a door), but I can only stay in there for so long. I've come to love earplugs, earphones, and 24 hour restaurants. I feel childish sticking my fingers in my ears, but sometimes it's my only immediate escape. >>>>
Yes to 24 hour restaurants...they have been my lifesaver many times.
>>>>> Leaving is always the best option, but every time I do I always resent having to leave. I've spent several nights in a hotel room, but "wasting money on that" is just one more thing for him to yell at me about. >>>>
Yes,, I don't like spending money on hotels, either. I have actually slept in my car a few times. I keep a pillow and blankets in there "just in case." I'll park in a 24 hour store parking lot, recline my seat and go to sleep.....and I've even done this in my own driveway at home....H doesn't realize I'm there....he's usually on the bed watching TV until he passes out (from drinking) Does your H drink?
>>>>> And often, when I do leave, I'll just get "yelled at" via text, so I'm never totally away. I've gotten better at ignoring those, but it's not always easy. <<<<
Yes, that happens as well. I've texted back, "if you're going to be nasty, then I'm turning off my phone." Sometimes he'll threaten to break something (smash the big screen TV) if I don't answer his texts. One time, I called the police when he made such a threat. The police came and told him he needed to leave for the night. Because he was drinking, they DROVE him to a motel and ordered him not to contact me for 24 hours.. lol
>>>>>> Last week, ironically during our date night (the thing we're trying to do to improve / save our marriage) we were having a great time at dinner until he brought up an old argument and insisted on discussing it. He started harping on me (why did I pick up his medication 2 hours later than I said I would?), he got real heated, his voice started to raise, and he started angrily moving things around on the table (throwing his napkin down, pushing plates, pouring drinks so that they spilled), so, as per usual, I went silent. >>>>
That is it. You can't be responsible for getting HIS meds. That is HIS job. Make that a boundary. "I will no longer be picking up your meds. That is your job. If I happen to be near the pharmacy, then I may get it for you, but it will be on MY schedule, not yours....so if you need it sooner, you will need to get it." Then reiterate the boundary when they are calm. Or tell him the boundary when he's calm. Or better yet....TEXT him the boundary so he can't claim you never said that.
>>>>> But it started getting embarrassing, so finally I got up and walked out (something I've never done before). Of course, now I'm in the doghouse for that. "How dare I do that to someone who is paying for my dinner!" >>>>>
Again....a boundary needs to be set. "I will walk out anytime that I believe that your tone/voice/behavior is embarrassing me. The fact that you paid for the meal is irrelevant. I will walk out any time I am not comfortable with your behavior."
>>>>>> - He also twists my words / puts words in my mouth. Actually, his whole family is skilled at this. I like to think I am relatively coherent with my word choices, but he and his family have a remarkable ability to turn a well-meaning remark into a slanderous insult or offense. When I first learned his mother has a Master's degree, I said something along the lines of "oh, wow!" This was twisted into me being shocked that she was able to accomplish something bc I obviously think she is too stupid to do anything like that. (???) This kind of stuff used to baffle and really upset me. I would go overboard trying to defend what I actually meant. Now I know that it doesn't matter what I say. They will twist anything if they are intent on finding something to twist. Again, my (probably unhealthy) coping strategy has been to be as silent as possible. "Anything I say can and will be held against me" is what I remind myself. But even this doesn't work. One time I shrugged at his mother--the "shrug heard 'round the world" as I like to call it--and this later came back to haunt me big time. I was disrespectful, rude, and offensive, or some nonsense like that, and I got punished for days for it by getting yelled at by my husband. I know these are mother-in-law examples (and I used them bc I actually find them kind of funny now), but my husband will twist my words (or non-words!) in just the same way. - He also reads my texts and emails, and then gets mad at me for them -- and without fail, it's bc he misunderstood or misread something!
I've been accused of countless things that are not even remotely true (affairs, talking shit about him, etc.). -
<<<<
I have been accused of having affairs as well...it's all part of their low-self-esteem.
>>>>>My husband is also a good liar. He lies to therapists, usually regarding medication, but a few years ago he lied to a therapist by making up a child!!
My H has also lied a LOT to his therapists...either direct lies or lies of omission. He has stopped letting me meet his T's because after they meet me, they tell him that I'm nothing like how he's described me! lol Plus, they then see how horrible he is to me when they see him shut me down every time I try to say anything.
,>>>>>>He invented this daughter that we had, and would go in and tell stories about her. Thank God he doesn't go to that therapist anymore, bc his stories started getting ridiculous (he couldn't keep track of her age, and I think he changed her name a few times). Yes, he told me about all this (not sure why).
<<<<<
I am surprised that he told you that. How weird.
>>>>>They say trust is the most important thing in a marriage, but I never fully trust anything he says. Not that I think everything he says is untrue, but I sure have learned to take everything he says with a grain of salt. - <,,,<<<
I no longer believe anything my H says. It's either some "tall tale" or too many misremembered "facts"
>,,>>>
He has a litany of "valid" excuses for his behavior. He's in pain (he suffers from headaches), it's his ADHD, or it's just "the way he is." Sure, at least the first two can be real explanations for bad behavior, and I do cut him a LOT of slack. But at what point is my (emotional) suffering not justified by these valid excuses? At what point is it too much? At what point is he just a jerk who happens to also have pain and ADHD? Of course, I get no such excuses. Like everyone, I mess up and behave badly myself sometimes, but I am not allowed to pull any of these "get out of jail free cards." I understand that that's just being an adult who has to take responsibility for her actions, but I do find myself resentful that he "gets" to yell at me and vent all his anger with total impunity. I daydream about getting to finally say all the things I want to to him, and then using the Men in Black memory eraser on him. We have gone to a few marriage counseling sessions (and I hope to keep going), but believe it or not it's all him doing the talking...When our therapist tries to bring me in, I find myself dumbfounded and speechless bc I'm so used to reverting to silence. So nothing I say is actually what I really want to say (I'm so out of practice "talking about feelings" in a constructive way). I should clarify, when I say my usual strategy is to revert to silence, that is very true -- but I do have my breaking point. I've done my fair share of yelling back during arguments. I hate falling into that, and I've said many things which were cruel and that I regret. And he has the memory of an elephant -- he never hesitates to throw these mistakes in my face, despite my sincere and abundant apologies. - Lastly, what resonated the most with me from other people's posts are the expressions of love for their husbands. Most people, if they read any one of these things above, let alone all of them, would think I am INSANE for staying with him. But, despite it all, I still love him. I still see the good in him -- bc it does come out, in full force, on his good days. But the good is a Sword of Damocles hanging above my head. Whenever I consider leaving him--lately, it's been a lot--I can never pull the trigger (or even come close) bc I actually love the f-ing bastard. When I fantasize about leaving him, I imagine myself being quite happy -- aside from the fact that I would miss him terribly. It's heart-wrenching even to think of not having him in my life. It would leave a giant whole in my heart. So, instead, I stay but let him continually beat up my heart...Does that make any sense? I don't entirely understand myself on this. Well, I don't know if anyone will read this long essay, but it sure felt good to get it out! I've never had a place to share these thoughts, bc I know the one and only reaction I would get would be the old "You better leave him, Honey!" Thanks to anyone who did read, and thank you in general for his forum. -R >>>>>
Thank you for your comments,
Submitted by RedEyesOnOrange... on
Thank you for your comments, I really appreciate all your insights and commiseration! I also admire the way you've learned to protect yourself (& your belongings!), and the way you've managed to set boundaries. Setting boundaries is something I've really struggled with. I just know he'll fight me tooth and nail if I refuse to do anything, so I usually (or always) just give in or don't even bring it up.
What other strategies have you adopted? How do you prevent yourself from screaming back at him? And what did he do when you called the police? Lol!
He doesn't drink, but he has had problems with other drugs. He was addicted to opiates, but not any longer (which I am very proud of him for!). He is still addicted to Xanax (the med I was late picking up), but he is working to get off those too by tapering down -- which contributes to him being even crankier and more short-tempered than usual. I appreciate these steps he's taking, but the PROCESS of withdrawal is a nightmare (for both of us!!).
I'll have to look more into PD, I'm not very familiar with it. Thanks for pointing that out, maybe it will help explain more of his irrational behavior.
One last question -- this may sound strange, but do you think your H is happy at all? Sometimes, in between being furious at my H, I get a profound sadness for him bc I think of how miserable he must be. Sometimes I don't know whether to hate him or feel sorry for him.
Thanks again,
-R
I know what you mean about
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I know what you mean about "going blank" in the therapist's office, so I go with notes that I have prepared ahead of time to "prompt me". Also, I take notes while my H is talking to remind me to respond to whatever ridiculous thing he is saying.
>>>>
get no such excuses. Like everyone, I mess up and behave badly myself sometimes, but I am not allowed to pull any of these "get out of jail free cards." I understand that that's just being an adult who has to take responsibility for her actions, but I do find myself resentful that he "gets" to yell at me and vent all his anger with total impunity.
<<<<
Right! Not only are we not given a "hall pass" for any of our imperfections, they will bring them up all the time.
Redeyesonorange I Read your essay...feel so bad for you....
Submitted by c ur self on
I think counseling will be good for you both...Your husband, based on this post has no respect for you, desire's to control you (his insecurities) he sounds so very spoiled and immature....So, I suggest you print out this post...most counselor's like for their clients to write letters, basically about their own feelings...Honey you wrote a good one!...
Also you keep making excuses for being quiet...To engage his behavior, his denial, his disrespect would be futile, and useless....So your ability to keep quiet when chaos is going on, show's maturity and wisdom...
I don't know if you will stay or not, but, unless he faces his own demon's, his own insecurities...unless he start's respecting you for the person God has made you, it's going to continue to be a chaotic life.
Praying for you...c ur self.....
PS try not to get angry and bitter...try to see his behavior as his own, do not let it I.D. you at all...Not all children or young...:)
I agree with printing out the
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I agree with printing out the above and taking it with you.
Also!! Print out a copy of that picture he sent of your computer with the word SMASHED on it. EVEN if he claims that he was "joking" no counselor would believe that...because that isn't something a spouse "jokes" about.
You need to develop some good protections....such as always taking your laptop with you. And always keeping it close to you . I never leave my iPad or phone or anything of value out for H to use as a threat. I have two phones (mentioned above, I keep one hidden), 2 tablets (1 hidden)., and a laptop (kept hidden). I have to do this because H uses those things as threats to get what he wants. And that's one reason that he'd never let me talk to nay current therapist....e knows that I would show those texts of his threats.
I also do not park my car in a way that he could block me in. He has done that in the past, so I no longer let him do that. H mistakenly mentioned that he has done that to me and his T was very angry at him adn told him to never do that again. He also told his T that he threw away my clothes in anger.... and the T was very upset at him. So, now he's very hesitant to mention things that he's done. He thinks he has the right to do some things, but then finds out, "oops, my T is mad that I did that."
- He also twists my words /
Submitted by kathy1208 on
- He also twists my words / puts words in my mouth. Actually, his whole family is skilled at this. I like to think I am relatively coherent with my word choices, but he and his family have a remarkable ability to turn a well-meaning remark into a slanderous insult or offense. When I first learned his mother has a Master's degree, I said something along the lines of "oh, wow!" This was twisted into me being shocked that she was able to accomplish something bc I obviously think she is too stupid to do anything like that. (???) This kind of stuff used to baffle and really upset me. I would go overboard trying to defend what I actually meant. Now I know that it doesn't matter what I say. They will twist anything if they are intent on finding something to twist. Again, my (probably unhealthy) coping strategy has been to be as silent as possible. "Anything I say can and will be held against me" is what I remind myself. But even this doesn't work. One time I shrugged at his mother--the "shrug heard 'round the world" as I like to call it--and this later came back to haunt me big time. I was disrespectful, rude, and offensive, or some nonsense like that, and I got punished for days for it by getting yelled at by my husband. I know these are mother-in-law examples (and I used them bc I actually find them kind of funny now), but my husband will twist my words (or non-words!) in just the same way.
^^^^^^
This......you would think I am a horrible wife with the accusations that have been thrown at me. I ONCE threw a coffee cup at the floor in anger (huge mistake I know) but to this day he insists that I was "trying to throw it at his head (six feet in the air in the opposite direction and WTF would I do that?!?!?!) and he says that it went where it went bc i have horrible aim. Once I was trying to grab a broom from him bc I just knocked over and broke a glass and he angrily goes over and grabs the broom and starts sweeping and when I grabbed for it he said i was "trying to take a swing at him." There are a few others like that - those are the worst - being accused of being physically abusive toward him. It saddens me incredibly. Other than those, just the general stuff, he regurgitates what I just said in an argument, but doesnt ever repeat what I actually said.....instead he will be like "you said i dont know what im talking about," "im stupid" "im an idiot." etc - he will accusing me of being mad when im not mad (until i GET mad at him for doing that then it's all over....), he is always reading things into everything to make me into a bad person when I am not. He will misquote what I said, or even if he gets the words right, assign some "tone I took" with him even at times when Im painfully aware of his sensitivity and going out of my way to speak in a nice, gentle, non-threatening, or monotone way.....
Like you, I truly love my husband....we have fun together and see eye to eye on many things, its like when the flip is switched to ""emotional" all logic goes out the window, he can be so irrational and dramatic and sometimes even mean and nasty.
I have grown numb to, tolerant of, learned to manage, i dont know what the proper wording is...a lot of facets of my husband when he is in this mode. The one thing I CANNOT HANDLE is being accused of mistreating him when I am truly not. I suppose if i knew he knows deep down that hes twisting my words and turning himself into a victim, then I could just roll my eyes at it. But I guess I worry about what if he actually sees me as this person?!?
Sorry i dont have any words of encouragement. For better or for worse, the way I deal with most BS from my husband is by ignoring it.
Never match their anger ....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
One thing I have long learned is to NEVER match their anger. If they call you ten terrible names and you call them one bad name, in their minds , it is equal...you're both bad.
If your spouse throws things in anger and you do it once, they will always point to that. Over 20 years ago, H was lecturing and lecturing me about NOTHING....I couldn't get away from him....he kept following me. I went to bed and put my pillow over my head....he continued to stand over me and lecture me....this was pure abuse. All I did was grab my water cup on my bedside table and threw the water at him. H has never forgotten that. It doesn't matter that he has thrown a ga zillion things, broken things, destroyed things. To him, we're equally bad. Ugh.
You have to be the bigger person....always.
Yeah, my husband can't
Submitted by kathy1208 on
Yeah, my husband can't remember what I said five minutes earlier....when he misquoted me the other day in an argument I insisted he please refer to actual words spoken by me and he told me I was being unreasonable to expect him to remember "EXACTLY" what I said a whole five minutes earlier...I told him i wondered why he was so mad at me over something I had said when he couldnt exactly remember what was even said, and the things he is saying aren't accurate at all....
.....but he will remember any moment in our past when I acted imperfectly and treat it as justification for (1) his own behavior and (2) why my pointing out his bad behavior is hypocritical and irrelevant.
I am always beating myself up in this relationship for not acting perfectly - like "if i had only acted perfectly then he'd have no ammo to continue to justify the ridiculous stuff he does, and hed actually have to face the reality of his behavior and he would, and things would be better." Its like this convoluted way that ive managed to blame myself for all the dysfunction in our relationship by not acting perfectly. I should just accept that he would be this difficult and unreasonable with any woman no matter how perfect she is. There is inherently no one that is actually "compatible" with his personality type - at least not the emotional side!
Yes you do have to stop giving him ammunition
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
That is the only way that they can somehow become more self-aware. As long as you do one thing bad, they can always point to that.
And I don't even bother saying things aloud....I use mostly text or email...so that I have PROOF of what I said and he can't claim that I had a tone or "made a face" or anything.
Now with texts and emails, I have total proof of what I said AND of what HE SAID. HE will often deny saying something and then, voila! I show him his words in his own text to me.
In the past, if I whispered something, he would later say I "yelled at him". lol
Memory
Submitted by sunlight on
"As long as you do one thing bad, they can always point to that."
Ha, I know that ADHD memory problems can help me there. Sometimes he has no recollection of low stuff to which I may have stooped :)
Interestingly, I think my husband does create the memories, he just can't recall them all the time (worse than non-ADHD people, no-one is perfect). This changed with Adderall - then he could remember stuff that before that he insisted up/down/sideways/backwards had never, NEVER happened the way I described them. Similarly with the instances where he insisted he had said/done things that never happened. Suddenly, he knew what I had been talking about in many instances when I insisted that he was not recalling correctly. Chemistry is a wonderful thing.
Had to stop this sunlight....
Submitted by c ur self on
I realized how foolish and unwise I was to address things and detail from the past with her...I still love reading these posts, because it reinforces the things ive had to learn the hard way because of my own headedness. So If we run out of something to say that's constructive and about the present...Quiet is good...Quiet is real good :)
I can forget, and do:)...But, the difference is some how with her there isn't any Oh well who gives a flip about past details that doesn't matter, lets drop it and give me kiss..Some how the fact we couldn't all see it her way, cost us all the peace God wanted us to have for a day or so....
The bible encourages husband's to live with their wives in an understanding manner....I don't know if I will ever understand her....LOL....
Edit...It just dawned on me....The understanding manner is probably the fact I will never understand her....:)
i also email and text him apologies and ask for confirmation ...
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
that he received them by text or email. I do this for apologies and "thank yous" because later he'll say that I never apologized or thanked him for something.
So then I show him the proof
HI Kathy1208
Submitted by c ur self on
People who do not want to face the reality of their own life, will always try to manipulate those around them...esp...the spouse...If he can keep the focus on you as being the bad guy...It helps with his denial and his unwillingness to c himself.....
This is something I ran across that describes many of us who refuse to live responsible and self-aware lives....How to show kindness to those you love....Manage your own emotions, anxieties, and feelings of self-worth....People who can't control themselves will always live to control others...
I wrote this down, and taped it to my desk as reminder for myself to not live this way...And to be aware of it when it flares up in her...and not engage it...And who know's she might just set down and notice it and reflect a little ;)
That is why I document everything now
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>>>
If he can keep the focus on you as being the bad guy...It helps with his denial and his unwillingness to c himself...
>>>
That is why I document everything now.
If your documentation
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
If your documentation contradicts your husband's statements, he'll probably just lie or accuse you of "keeping score" or "being a perfectionist" or say, "Oh, didn't you ever forget something?"
Oh, he will say, "I forgot"
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
After being shown the proof, H will say, "oh I forgot".
And that is a victory for ME. Having this happen again and again is part is helping him become more self aware.
Prior to being shown proof he'd say how he remembers everything perfectly ....he needed to learn, "no, I don't remember everything perfectly."
When we were separated, H was living in another state. He sent me a text which said, "just to let you know, I'm never coming back to XXXX (our state). I'm retiring and staying here. You're out of my life, I never want to talk to you again."
So, since my business is in another town where I have another home, I had our bills forwarded to that home so I could take care of them since it appeared that H was abandoning the family.
H was gone for a few months.
Months later, after H returned home, H started raging about how wrong I was to have the bills forwarded to my other home. I told him that I did that because I was spending most of my time there because of my business and that he had said that he was NEVER coming back.
H insisted that he NEVER said that he wasn't coming back. "I have a job there, of course I was going to come back". No, you said you were going to retire and never come back. Back and forth this went. Finally, I remembered that H had TEXTED me that.....so I pulled up his text and showed him. oops.
It has helped him REALIZE that he says outlandish things when he's angry. ....and it has helped him accept that he does NOT remember everything he has said.
One reason that H isn't self aware is poor parenting. He was rarely ever corrected or shown his mistakes..
<< One reason that H isn't
Submitted by RedEyesOnOrange... on
<< One reason that H isn't self aware is poor parenting. He was rarely ever corrected or shown his mistakes.. >>
I see SO many of my H's bad traits in his parents... They even use the same phrasing! The "after all I've done for you?" nonsense is definitely something he picked up from his mother. That horrible little phrase drives me crazy. Somehow, I think it's even worse coming from a parent to a child. And his dad is constantly interrupting people! He interrupts my H all the time, and I want to slap him every time he does. It makes me so angry.
Similarly, my H always got a free pass from his parents. He told me that when he was in high school, if he didn't finish a project or a paper on time, his mom would do it for him!!! Is it any wonder he expects others to take the blame when he is irresponsible?!
If there's any good to come from all this, I've learned a lot of DON'Ts about parenting!
-R
Thank you for your kind words
Submitted by RedEyesOnOrange... on
Thank you for your kind words, C ur self. I think it's a great idea to print out what I wrote and give it to my therapist! I always end up kind of "deer in the headlights" whenever I'm in a therapist's office. I never know where to start, or how to organize my thoughts. So, thank you, great idea.
Also, as others have been saying, texts make for incredible PROOF! I think I will keep a file of some of my H's particularly bad ones (like the computer smash one), just in case I ever need them. I don't want to rub his nose in it or anything (I've sent texts that I regret of course), but I think I would feel better knowing I have quick access to them if need be.
I've also thought about recording him when he goes into his angry rants against me. I don't think he'd ever listen to the whole thing, but if he got just a taste of what he is like, I wonder if it might open his eyes a bit. I know the "good him" would want to kill anyone who talked to me like the "bad him."
Above all, it seems like staying calm (as much as humanly possible), leaving when necessary, and protecting yourself (and your stuff) are the key strategies... Texts and recordings seem like good supplementary strategies, mainly for reminding yourself that you're not the crazy one (and for sometimes making the H feel a bit sheepish). Does that sound right?
-R
<<,,
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<,,
know the "good him" would want to kill anyone who talked to me like the "bad him."
<<<
That's the crazy part. My H was LIVID when a co-worker from a previous job I had talked to me rudely. And H gets mad when my best friend's H talks to her rudely.....but he is much more rude than they are!!!
Totally! We were at a party
Submitted by RedEyesOnOrange... on
Totally! We were at a party hosted by my friend and her husband one time, and towards the end my friend's husband spoke pretty harshly to her about cleaning up hors d'oeuvres. After the party, my H couldn't stop talking about it and how angry he was with my friend's husband. I was sweet of him to be so concerned about my friend, but I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone! I know public scenes are always more sensitive, but the words themselves were nothing compared to what he says to me.
He's very protective of me too, when it comes to anyone else. I showed him a text from a partner (for a school project) that was just mildly short-tempered and pissy, and he got really upset and wanted to go talk to this person. I only showed him the text bc I thought it was funny. And it paled in comparison to the kind of things he's said to me! Ironic, isn't it?
-R
It is sad though?
Submitted by c ur self on
R...just reading this post and some of the other's on this thread, Is so sad:(....It's a shame our lives have to be lived constantly on edge, looking over our shoulders, wondering what is coming next...It's ridiculous and sad... I was married 30 years to me first wife...Lost her at 49 to Breast Cancer...But, I didn't have to live on pins an needles all the time...OMG...it's so sad a husband or wife would even consider doing some of the things we are discussing here.
When a person continues to stay with a spouse who is so unstable in their emotions and actions that the feeling of being abused and fearful is the main component of the marriage, it's time for some help!....There's many kinds of abuse...Physiological, verbal and emotional is the big one's I'm hearing here.
Where did all the sane one's go?...LOL...
Just to clarify, I'm not linking Add to abuse...Someone who seeks to manipulate, control, abuse and instill fear on their spouse and others has way way more problems than a fast mind....
<< I am always beating myself
Submitted by RedEyesOnOrange... on
<< I am always beating myself up in this relationship for not acting perfectly - like "if i had only acted perfectly then he'd have no ammo to continue to justify the ridiculous stuff he does, and hed actually have to face the reality of his behavior and he would, and things would be better." Its like this convoluted way that ive managed to blame myself for all the dysfunction in our relationship by not acting perfectly. I should just accept that he would be this difficult and unreasonable with any woman no matter how perfect she is. There is inherently no one that is actually "compatible" with his personality type - at least not the emotional side! >>
I have done exactly this SO many times! "If I just hadn't done X, or said X, or if I had done X better..." I've come to realize that the X (whatever they claim they are made about) doesn't really matter. Even if the X was a mistake on my part, a simple apology should be enough to end the matter. People make mistakes, and perfection is impossible! But even perfect, if it were possible, wouldn't solve anything. There will always be something to find fault with (even if it really isn't your fault at all).
I too used to think that if I could just be "perfect" then we could finally have peace. But even if I had a good streak where I didn't do anything wrong (a close to "perfect" week, for example), my H would find weird ways to blame me for things he did wrong. Recently, he ran out of razor blades and was mad bc he couldn't shave. He got made at me for not checking to make sure he had a sufficient supply. The old me would have thought that he was right, a "good wife" should check on these things. But that is ABSURD. If he had told me he was running low, I would have been happy to get him more. (I'm not even suggesting that he should get more himself, just inform me!) Now, I just have to laugh at the petty blame-shifting. It's like hearing a kid say "the dog ate my homework" ("you didn't get me razor blades!"). If you can forget for a moment the fact that it's loud and directed at you, you can really see the humor and ridiculousness of it.
Sometimes playing up the ridiculousness is a good strategy (but not crossing over into sarcasm, which is hard!). For example, saying "Oh no, you're out of razors?!! That's the worst news I've heard all day! Good thing you look good with a little scruff..." It's funny (at least to me) and helps lighten the mood a bit. Throwing in a compliment is always disarming as well. Just keep the eye-rolling to yourself. ;)
-R
R...you sound so much like I use to....
Submitted by c ur self on
My best friend and I would talk....I would talk, he would listen...Looking back, I realize what a good friend he is...I lived w/ my first wife for thirty years and I can count of one hand the time's we had any kind of heated arguments. So, I was at my wits end, because nothing I tried was working. The more I did to make life good for her, the more she seemed to resent me. The pressure we put on ourselves trying to be perfect, trying to stay out of the line of fire...Can turn us into angry basket case...It did me...But, Praise the Lord for healing...By God's Grace and love, I want be that enabler again....
My friend use to tell me (after I had burnt his ears for an hour)...Man all you ever tell me is you need to learn this and learn that...When is she ever going to learn?...LOL...Bless his heart....
can you get your H into therapy?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>>
ings he did wrong. Recently, he ran out of razor blades and was mad bc he couldn't shave. He got made at me for not checking to make sure he had a sufficient supply. The old me would have thought that he was right, a "good wife" should check on these things. But that is ABSURD. If he had told me he was running low, I would have been happy to get him more. (I'm not even suggesting that he should get more himself, just inform me!) Now, I just have to laugh at the petty blame-shifting. It's like hearing a kid say "the dog ate my homework" ("you didn't get me razor blades!"). If you can forget for a moment the fact that it's loud and directed at you, you can really see the humor and ridiculousness of it.
<<<
I would write examples like this down, and if you could get into Couples Therapy, mention these examples. They would serve two purposes. 1) Provide insight to the T that your H is very needy. 2) Your H will likely rationalize his behavior and that will further demonstrate to the T that there is something very wrong with him.
If this subject came up, would your H deny that it ever happened? What if you provided a detailed list? Would he deny them all?
A list is a good idea. He
Submitted by RedEyesOnOrange... on
A list is a good idea. He probably would deny a lot of it, but maybe just knowing I was making a list would encourage him to self-censor some of the more ridiculous requests?
Like you said, if I can get him back to the T and bring up the list there, even if (when) he does try to rationalize it all, it will bring the absurdity of the whole business to light.
Thanks for the suggestion.
-Red
Does he ever make his demands by text or email?
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Sounds like he does. Take screen shots of the demands, put them into a saved folder for proof if he denies doing this.
He'll really be exposed if he says, "I don't do ..........."....and then you show the screenshots of texts where he's done exactly that.
All of this helps them become more self aware.....my H was never self aware because his family never confronted. Now, he is confronted and it's an eye opener for him.
Plan an escape
Submitted by MariaL on
Make a plan to get your degree, get a job, get an apartment and leave. Work toward the plan without mentioning a word to him. You are fortunate that there are no kids; set yourself free of this man. Get yourself back.