Preface: I'm up all night again, and I can't sleep. I've been doing a lot of connecting up lately and part of it....I need to get down before I lose it. lol And a caveat before I continue. As I explain a life changing experience that had....I would be remiss in saying: This is not something I would recommend or try on your own. In fact don't...unless you do it with someone who knows what they are doing. There are places you can go and do this I found in my research....but I'm not including here for any other reason than for what I learned and what has come out of it. That's the most important thing to me so it should be the focus for anyone reading this. Fair warning:)
This will cover a lot of ground so I need to make this a multiple part post or I'll get too constricted in my ability to put it all together. The topics include: Attachment Theory, Dissociative Spitting, Religion and Spirituality and how I am relating it to having ADHD. That's a lot of ground! ha! And because I think what I have to say is so important. I need to lend some insight and research I've done to validate a lot of what I have to say here. To start....I've been researching and seeking answers to this for years now...to the point of even taking an University Level course on it to try and find my answers to what I experienced. This goes back a ways into my past....but what I took from it is here with me on a daily basis. That's what a positive experience this was for me albeit....in the way I am and the way I tend to do things....it was one of those leap first....think about later impulsive experiences that turned out just fine in the end. And then some:)
All I ask...is to have a open mind and not discount what I have to say. Not for my sake....but possibly discounting some really valuable information that you're probably not going to get from a therapist or Doctor for sure. Having said that.....Doctors don't know everything....they just people too you know? lol
legal disclaimer: Just because Johnny jumps off a cliff....doesn't mean you should do it too!
The Long Strange Trip...the Waiting for a Miracle
I've done a lot of crazy things in my life...and this one is one of them. But.. out of all of the accidents I've had in my life that didn't go well....this one is a shining star as far as the ones where I came out Okay. To say the least.
In the beginning....I was a straight laced kid who was seeking something to relieve the pain and insecurity that I was carrying around with me from my childhood that I had grown so use to that I believed this was as good as it gets. This is it....and will be my life until I reach the very end. And the end was something that I thought...might come sooner than later for me. That feeling was like I was going to die came from the abuse of my childhood and had it reached a point....where I just didn't care any more. Not caring if you die...is different than thinking about killing yourself or suicide which I have never had those thoughts. Wanting to sometimes could be included in not caring if you do...if that makes any sense? I don't care which side of ADHD you're on....a person like I was...is going to be in need of something and until you figure it out.....you are not going to feel any better. In my case...I wasn't trying to figure anything out....I was only looking for some relief for the pain.
So for me coming from a pretty straight up Christian family who had some more strict ideas of how to interpret this....I was not someone who didn't consider things or consider breaking the law as no big deal or not something to worry about. Having said that....it was the early 70's in Jr High and High School when I first started experimenting with drugs.
A side story, related directly to ADHD...one of my friends who was the first to join me in my experimentation....had a father who was a pharmacist. lol Needless to say....we took the scientific approach and pulled his fathers pharmacological book out and did our home work first. And since he worked for his father at times filling scripts....instead of throwing pills out like he was suppose to when they fell on the floor....these would come home with him and the two of us would try them out and take them for a spin! lol
This was the first time I tried Amphetamines, it was pure grade pharmaceutical speed direct from the source. This is actually the story I told my nurse practitioner when filling out my "drug experiences" questionnaire... to test to see if I had ADHD from the things I said. And as I told her...."yeah...I was kind of disappointed when I first tried it....thinking it was going to do something which it didn't in my mind....except, I really felt great and my mind was extremely sharp and clear after taking it but I really didn't think much in terms of getting me "high"...which it didn't at all." Which as she told me after I filled out the questionnaire....that was the right answer she was looking for.
So moving onward from those first experiences. I really had no interest in pills and really didn't like anything we fooled around with right at first and stopped doing that right away. Only to graduate to hard drugs ( as I thought any drug was for me ) and right on to Marijuana which was extremely popular at the time and readily available. Outside of Pot and Beer....these were really the only "hard drugs" I ever did during those early years in High School. Except for one exception....
Where I live....Magic Mushrooms or Psyilocybin grows wild everywhere. All you needed to do was find a cow pasture and start rooting around in the grass and you'll find some if you know what to look for. This was kind of a ritual thing every October for a lot of people to go Mushroom picking and I was invited along to discover how to do this. And as I found that was really fun during that time in my life.... were going to costume parties at Halloween on mushrooms which made that even that much more entertaining. lol It became a yearly tradition and the only other drug that I really like doing but on a limited basis in the fall every year.
And just to reiterate...my drug usage was pretty limited and I took it rather seriously. I don't have an addictive personality (that God! ) and law breaking was one big consideration....getting caught by my parents would have been even worse! Which....I managed to do and how I'll never know?
So from that limited background....I proceeded off to college where I met a couple of friends and one was majoring in chemistry. This guy was somewhat entrepreneurial by nature and devised a way to manufacture a small amount of high grade LSD in the University chemistry lab right on campus....using their equipment and chemicals which appeared to have very good results. We had some pretty interesting adventures out in the woods,in the Mountains and skinny dipping naked in remote forest hot springs with "Hippies"..... and in general... having a lot of fun and laughing so much at times with my college friends that I would wake up the next day with an sore jaw and stomach muscles. lol This was also on a very limited special occasion type basis which only amounted to a hand ful of times. I guess if your going to do these things....college is always a good time to do it. Isn't that why you go there anyway? lol Anyway...as a parting gift from my friend the chemistry student at the end of the year....he slipped me a little vile that contained some this pure LSD he made in liquid form as a going away present at the end of the school year. At the time....I was needing a break from that and was not really interested. I'd had my fun and was planning on keeping it that way. I ended up throwing that vile in amongst a bunch of keep sakes from college and never bothered looking for it again.
Fast forward....15 years later.
I was really struggling at the time and was in severe need of some kind of miracle to snap me out of the depression I was having. I was married at the time and things were beginning to go down hill for me. I didn't know I had ADHD and had already discovered most my symptoms the hard way with no way of understanding how to fix it or make how I felt any better. A friend of mine who was a big Grateful dead fan moved home from San Francisco to live in our city again and who was urging me to go see them with him the next time they came through town. Not having see them but not that interested in them at first....he finally twisted my arm to go see them and we both set out with tickets in hand when that opportunity presented itself. And in one of those spur of the moment decisions...I remembered that vile again. When I found it in my stash of keep sakes from college.... the vile was dry and empty from sitting for all those years...so I figured I'd just add a little water and get what little I could out of it just as an after thought. I needed something to get me out of my funk and that was as far as my thinking went.
So when we arrived at the venue....there were thousands of people everywhere...and it seemed like the time and the place to throw down the vile of water and go hear some music which I was really looking forward to since I was struggling as I said.
As I discovered within in short period of time.....the amount I thought might not do anything...was actually a massive dose of pure LSD that exceeded anything that I had ever expected. (or ever experienced before in my previous experiences) This turned out to be a life changing event for me quite by accident.
This is where I can start to pull all that I learned from what happened that day and apply it to so many things...I'm still trying to piece this all together. In order to do this....I'll stop here and include the topics that came out of this and how I can apply it.
Satori: the Buddhist experience of enlightenment or Nirvana
Echart Tolle: and his personal experiencing the same thing only getting there a different way
Inner peace, connection made inside the brain, attachment, and..... "hallucinatory thinking" and "extinguishing conditioned responses" which NowOrNever brought up in another unrelated thread on Attachment theory. If I can manage go do this well....I will be able to really explain what dissociation is and how this might be useful ...in terms of ADHD and explaining those ruminating voices or thoughts inside your head from the past. In that same thread....Cur Your Self was looking for answers in dealing with the same kind of things with his wife....and now with what I've come to learn with my recent experience in successfully breaking through the wall of denial for the first time with my wife as well.
Including some thoughts how this applies to the topic of Narcissism and the discussion brought up in the blog post that Melissa Orlov included with some things that I feel are related.
And the very real religious or spiritual awakening experience when you become "One" with the universe which is that "one" experience that has been well documented in association with hallucinogenic drugs like LSD. In my case....this was by complete mishap or accident that this happened to me but....it changed my life from that day moving forward right up until this very day. In many respects...it was the miracle I had been waiting for.
Before I end this part 1 of trying to pull a lot of things together here.....I only wanted to add that I am not promoting or suggesting anyone follow my footsteps here. And at the very least just simply stating that I'm not advocating drug use or experimenting with them just to see what happens. This was a one time deal for me and was completely an accident that it worked out like this for me. There is so much I don't know how to explain but only to say that this really was a miracle in my life in a very positive way. I think regardless of the impression this might lead you to....this experience has given me quite a unique perspective and it's that perspective that is really the most important thing of all. Unless you think this sounds fishy or doesn't sound like it is worth considering....I have spent years like I said researching this experience and I am far from the only person who has ever had this happen. In this much...what I know....is that it's not a common one and pretty rare even for someone who goes seeking this experience and doing it the same way....have found they many or even most people.....never have this happen even then.
In that much....I feel pretty lucky indeed. More to come after I have a chance to think about how to tie this all together but at least now I can refer to this experience and apply what I've learned from it.
J
The "One"...Letting Go of the Ego
Submitted by kellyj on
Here's a good article and website that describes what happened to me on my inner adventure inside my head...or the "One" experience also know as Zen Satori. I'll just include it here if anyone is interested and wanting to know more than I could probably tell you. I don't need to know why....I just know:) But for those who have no idea what I'm talking about and are just curious....;this might give you a better idea.
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/staf6.htm
"Waiting For a Miracle"....performed by the 4 fingered man. Ironically...this was played the day in question. Just thought I'd throw it in since it was so relevant and why I included it in the title of my post. Ironic indeed ( kind of scary? ) At the least...it's nice memory of that day for me:)
https://youtu.be/Z7-TNgz4QPc
Yes, lucky
Submitted by Delphine on
I am glad you had such a great experience with acid, especially considering it was a massive dose. Not everyone did. The fact that you weren't impelled to repeat the experience is probably part of it. Smart of you. I had a bf who liked it so much he took 50 trips and ended up in a mental ward (prior to our meeting). He definitely went too far with it but didn't use it again while we were together. Yet he never failed in his reverence for Timothy Leary, who as you know strongly promoted the drug, and who he met in person at college.
I enjoyed reading your story, J. I experimented with LSD myself, along with a number of other psychedelics. Shrooms are my fave. You said you live where they can commonly be found? Can I give you my mailing address? ;)
Have you seen this documentary btw?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtT6Xkk-kzk
I'm checking it out myself tonite on Netflix streaming.
Delphine
Delphine....You Made Me Laugh!! lol
Submitted by kellyj on
Not about your BF or what you said....just the part about giving me your address! lol Yes....they grow everywhere around where I live. Or at least use to. The land has been swallowed up with development but....have you ever heard of or have Tillamook Cheese where you live? Tillamook OR...is at the coast. Along with lots of cows and cow pastures....and lots of Shrooms in those pastures!! It's a guarantee every October just like clock work! lol
Funny picking story here. When we use to go pick Shrooms in the fields around where I lived (like 2 miles from my house). These were private property and mostly....the owners didn't care one way or the other. Some did....but they made that clear with posted signs. The rest could care less. In fact....the smarter owners would charge a fee. All you had to do was go up to the house and give them $5.00 for unlimited access and away you go. Smart?
Anyway....there were times when there'd be a dozen or so people out in a field down on your hands and knees picking Shrooms. I use to wear rain gear because the grass was usually wet since they come up after it rains so I was completely dry no matter what. Same for most who did this. The cops...couldn't arrest you back then for having fresh picked Shrooms (that may have changed since then...new laws thinking?)...but they could arrest you for trespassing even if the owners didn't care. It was their way of trying to stop it even if it wasn't completely illegal. The laws were funny about that. It was partly illegal but not completely illegal? The way the laws were written back then? I think it had to do with the fact that there are lots of Mushrooms of all kinds around and all the rest are either poisonous or edible anyway and the laws were very conflicted in this area since picking any edible Mushroom is not illegal right? Probably still is that way...now that I think about it?
Anyway....the cops would do sweeps of these fields to try and prevent people from picking. At first....they would get out of their cars and start walking towards the area at one end of the field. Everyone knew what they were doing so you just get up and walk in the other direction and go sit somewhere in some trees or protected area until they walked through and then got back into their vehicles and left. The everyone would come back out and start picking again right away since you knew they wouldn't be back until the next day to do it again.
This got to be such a wasted effort on the cops part...that they lazy and would just sit inside the car and announce over the bull horn that "you are trespassing please vacate the property." But since it was fall and the grass was tall....all we did was lay down flat on our backs and wait a few minutes....and they would leave and you'd just continue picking. lol
So then....the cops were so frustrated over this since nothing they did worked.....they called us over to talk to us and said that if we just keep down on the ground and down roam around standing up....at least other people couldn't see us and ....wink, wink......"we won't care."
"Okay....we can do that" LOL
Anyway....I haven't done that for years and don't do Shrooms except on a rare occasions but it'd have to be with my old friends for old time sake just for fun. And yes....I loved Shrooms too back then too. LSD was way too hard core and more than I ever really wanted to experience. The few times I did it....including the massive dose day....was all I needed! I'm guessing....the dose I took would have been enough for 10 people for one good experience. It was the only time I ever went to work high like that since it didn't wear off for nearly 24 hours. That was interesting! LOL
But I felt so marvelous and was in such a good frame of mind....that it was great anyway and nothing anyone could do or say could put me a bad mood.
And if you have ever read about Echart Tolles personal experience where he went and sat of a park bench for a monthi or two? (can't remember exactly?) Because the effect this had on him?
I was the same way for about that long. In an eternally good postive mood and completely self content. Nothing anyone could do or say could ruffle me what so ever. I knew this difference....right when it happened too. I recognized this as not having anything to do with the LSD in fact....when that hit me all at once like this....I actually felt completely sober and straight and there were no hallucinations what so ever even after taking that big a dose? Saying...those hallucinations...are all in your mind too....even on LSD. That was the most extremely telling thing that this experience taught me. You have control of it even if you don't think so and you can control it by simply changing your thinking.
The power of positive thinking..... without any fear..... and letting go of your ego without any and all wants or needs.....even over rode the power and control the drugs effects and the control that it has on you. How about that one?
This was the awakening and the power of that experience. When you are fully connected with all your emotions, your body and your mind....you are in complete control of how you feel and your own moods 100%. It's amazing to discover....that you can actually do this.
Once you accept the power and control from the forces over you on outside....and you completely let go of all control on the inside....you pass though to the other side. This was what I learned from that experience in that extreme example.
Acceptance is the doorway and the key.....letting go of all control...is walking through that unlocked door. Control of others, control of your environment...and control of yourself inside you which is the thing that is in conflict and why it creates fear, anxiety and depression.....and those things disappear like magic when that happens and you feel free and liberated from suffering.
This is what happened to me and this was what I learned from that expereince. Letting go of the story (100%)....is letting go of the only thing the ego has to stay alive.
Without the story....the ego cannot live anymore and you become free from suffering when that happens....like "snap"...right now this very instant.
This was the experience....and that was the lesson. It's why I don't need to do it again. I learned my lesson and can do this without it now. It is exactly what Eckart Tolle teaches and exactly as it happens. I only needed that experience once...to tell me that it's possible any time I choose or make it a point to do it. It's never as wonderful as that first experience since it's too amazing to even believe it feels so good. But that's because of the state of suffering I was in at the time. If your not suffering that badly or just a little and you go back there again....it's not such a shock and surprise and it's not quite as intense.
The moment of ecstasy is not what you are trying to recreate....that won't happen ever again. It's the state of mind without suffering and letting go of the ego is the goal and what you are after. It's how I discovered Echart Tolle in the first place....I was trying to find someone who could explain what just happened to me because this was such an accidental discovery for me and I had no idea what just happened or how I got there?
When I first read about Echart Tolles recounting of his own experience....I realized....this is the same thing that had happened to me and the reasons why. He gave me the tools to keep finding it again and why I am such a believer in his approach. I just did it differently to get to the same place. The drug is not what did it....I did it in my mind and the drug just set me up to do it. I did it. Not the LSD.
And you can do it too...along with any one who can find that same path to get there. It is totally possible to live without suffering inside you mind and you have complete control of this any time you want. Praying....will never get you there like this when you are asking for a third party to do it for you. No one between Heaven and Hell including the Devil and God or Jesus themselves....can do this for you.
No amount of hoping, wishing, praying, wanting, needing, begging or otherwise....to anyone including God itself....can do this for you. No one. Only you have that power but you have that already.
You just have to learn how to use it and wield that power. It's the same power you were born with and the one God or the powers that be...already gave to you
You have that power already inside your mind...... and you are the only one who can control or work it use of it. Period. End of story.
This was how I learned to be enlightened all by myself. I don't need a beleif system or a third party to do it for me. I just have to use it and remember to keep practicing it so I can get better at using it.
All I can say from that experience if I had to put it in these terms....I came to know God in that moment...and he touched me to let me know he was actually there. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind what so ever that God exists....because I felt him inside me inside me...every day since then.
Having said that? I don't know what it was that I felt do that. It had no face, no voices, no body no gender....it was not a person and it definitely wasn't Jesus. There was no message sent me. There was no images. And since there can't be any images or sounds or messages....you can;t have a hallucination can you? It wasn't anybody or anything. But it was an unmistakable presence and an awareness.....of something outside myself that told me I was not alone in the Universe and was connected to everything...plant, rock, wind, weather, people, water....everything down to the smallest piece of grass...to the tiniest atom.....in the entire Universe with no end.
And once you know that....there is no need question anything ever again in that area. I don't need a religion to teach me that or to have faith. I don't need faith to no that this energy or power in the Universe that we call God....exists.
You don't need faith....when you know for absolutely sure do you? Think about it? And I knew in the moment....like putting my hand on a hot burning stove element in that example of getting severely burned. I know it...I don;t need to believe it's true and have no need for faith to know it exists.
And the reason I know this...is in that moment...all I could feel was Love. Love for myself...and Love for everything and everybody. At that moment....I actually knew what Love was. Before that....I was not sure. In fact....before that moment....I was not sure about everything I just said. When they say God is Love. I know this is true. I know this because of that experience. So if that statement is true. Then I know God and God touched me for even just a little while. But that was enough to make me know that is what happened to me.
What ever it is that's out there in the Universe that we call God or divine or what ever.....chose me in that moment to touch me inside just to let me know it's there. That is exactly what happened in the way to describe the feeling I had.
From that moment moving forward.....I just know and that's all I can say? It was life changing....I know that too. I do not question it for a second.
J
PS Delphine...if you want Shrooms....you can grow them yourself. You can order the spores and a kit to grow your own since the spores are not illegal. I did this in college with my room mate and we bought them locally. It's a little bit of a process but once you get it down....it works perfectly. You can grow all you want right at home and have an endless supply if you are looking for a source. We did it at the time so we could get more in the off season and it was actually kind of fun to grow your own Mushrooms and go through the process. It's cheap and doesn't require any special equipment aside from some basic household items. All you need is the spores and some medium and some petre dish's and follow the instructions which are pretty straight forward.
That is...if you were being serious and you weren't just having fun by saying that. Either way....it made me laugh:)
Reading you, J. Pax
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Reading you, J.
Pax
Back to Woodstock....LOL...
Submitted by c ur self on
The 60's and early 70's was full of seekers....Drugs was just one way many tried to go deeper into their own minds looking for something that would feed their hunger and desire for enlightenment....
You might like the Story of Keith Green on utube, if you haven't listened to it.....
C
Hi C
Submitted by Delphine on
J shared an experience that clearly was very meaningful and life-changing. Your post seems to belittle that. Correct me if I'm wrong?
I don't think you'd appreciate it if someone LOL'd at your Christian beliefs...
Delphine
Consider yourself corrected Delphine....
Submitted by c ur self on
As a Christian in this present age, persecution and to be laughed at as you state it, is just part of it....Words of the Christ...(The world don't know me, and they want know you)...My LOL is because I walked in much the same shoes as J did during the early 70's....Same Dysfunction at home, same desire's and hunger for life and enlightenment....Similar drugs...
But, one day my journey ended when I meet the one who gives me life, breathe and every beat of my heart....We are in him, and he is never far from any of us....
Blessings Delphine
C
"Eternal Life will never be about the created; but always about the Creator"
So True...... C
Submitted by kellyj on
I appreciate what Delphine said on my behalf, but you are not wrong. But in respect to what you said....these labels are what are divisive in that there is judgment within them. This is the very thing that drove me away from my mother in particular and drove a wedge in between us. Her strictly religious (singular) view of her self as a "Christian" (the label) created an "Us" and "them" view of people in general.
There's "US"...the good, the holy, the righteous believers in God and Jesus and the only people in the entire world (out of everyone) who are going to Heaven and are Godly....like God himself.....
And then there's everyone else in the world who are not like "US".....the "WE"....the "Co-Depenedents"..."WE" with "Turds" in our pockets.
The "Other Ones"...who are not like "US"....who are the "Non-believers"....the "Ones's" who do not walk on hallowed ground like "US"....the "One's" who are more lowly and beneath "US"....the Hell Dwellers on Earth....who are going straight to Hell when they die....the "One's" who do not deserve 'Our" respect...the "Ones" who ruin it for "US" and people like "US"....."WE"...the Co-dependent people of God....who are better than everyone else....."The Other Ones".
Them...."The Other Ones"..... those thieving uppity Niggers, those Godless Fudge Packing, Homo, Rump Ranger, Butt Pirates, those Zipper Head Chinks, those Slant Slope Spooks and those Greasy Wet Back Spics, those Pinko Fag Radical Hippies, those Mentally ill homeless street people "Bums", those Crazy People with disorders (like ADHD).....along with anyone who is not just like "US".....the ONlY people who are going to Heaven.....the ONlY people who are not going straight to Hel when they die.....the ONLY people who are good, righteous, Trust Worthy people....the ONLY people who deserve "OUR" respect....are people just like "US"..."Christians"...keepers of the ONLY Faith that counts...the ONLY belief that is "Right"....and everyone else....."The Other Ones".....the "NON-Beleiving, Commie, Pinko, Fag, Hippie, Hell Dwelling, Nigger, Chink, Spic, Slut, Whore, Mentally Ill, Other Ones who don't believe what we believe and aren't in our exclusive club that is reserved for only "US"......and the rest of "YOU'S Guys" .... are going straight to Hell!!!.....and are just... "Wrong".
Because "WE" said so. And you can't play with us! Nah Nonnie Nah Naw !!! thhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! (wet tongue stuck out of mouth)
"WE".....the Co-Dependent....the "WE" with turds in our pockets....the Black and White Thinkers.....the Bigots, the Hypocrites, the Racists, the Self Righteous,the Ignorant, the "ONES" on the side of GOD!!! Onward Christian Solders!!! Marching as to WAR!!!! With the Cross of Jesus...going on before!!
So you can see from that kind of thinking C....there isn't any room for a child with a disorder or mental health challenge. You might as well be garbage to a person like this who thinks this way....which is exactly what I was. I was one of the "Other Ones".
So if that's the case....if you can't beat em...join 'em. I became "The OTHER ONE" in my family because I rejected everything that Christianity stood for ..because it does not include all humans and everyone automatically where ALL Humans are equal and you didn't have to belong to any exclusive club where there can only be ONE right and ONE wrong for everyone and there are no other choices.
And somehow... if you don't fit in ....you're a piece of shit. That is.....everyone who is not a "Christian" just like "US". Onward Christian Solders!!!!!! We'll learn 'em (those pieces of shit "Other Ones"!!!)
And so all the "OTHER ONES" including women ( the Whore Slut fornicating Jezabels who had premarital sex )...rebelled and revolted. Because this is revolting. And if you don't think this is true....look inside yourself and see if this is not there in your thinking as a "Christian?" You won't have to look very hard to see it because you don't have a choice. That choice was made for you by the believe system itself and this is what you are taught. Taught that is....by "US". "Them", they, thee, their and "US". If you aren't with us....your're against us. Because "WE" said so.
Who's this "WE".....you got a turd in your pocket?
There are many paths to human enlightenment. Any path that does not include ALL Humans equally....is the path straight to Hell and it not what Jesus taught us as our master and teacher. IMHO
But this is why this happened C. This was what caused me to suffer and be estranged from my own family because if they were to admit that I had some kind of problem like ADHD.....their Co-dedendent black and white way of thinking would have to admit....that they were pieces of shit too. I wasn't a human being...with my own mind, my own thoughts and my own identity. I was my parents identity and merely an extension of them. I represented since they created me. They put themselves in the role or position of God themselves....
Which is exactly what Lucifer did when he was banished from Heaven and sent straight to Hell for doing the exact same thing.
The hypocrisy of it all C. It's why....when I was force fed Christianity and had it shoved down my throat....I rejected it...and anyone who was like this because I truly saw and believed....that they were all ignorant hypocrites and acting like the Devil himself and I refused to follow in such a false and decisive believe system like this because it revolted me and I rebelled against it...and go with Jesus instead.
And I paid a very high price....for my own identity as a human being as well because of it.
Why do you think I get so angry with my wife...when she gets into this ignorant, co-dependent black and white thinking like this and won't acknowledge my challenges and doesn't like to see my ADHD? A co-dependent thinker like this...can only see me as an extension of themselves which means.....they'd be embarrassed and shamed to be with a piece of shit like me if they had to actually see it or face it...and they couldn't use denial as the only way to get around being with me.
This is not just my opinion in this case. This is MY LIFE and a life time of experience talking. I know this one....like the back of my own hand.
In my mind co-depedence is evil. It destroys relationships. Evil as defined...."to destroy". In Christian terms....co-dependence would be of the Devil himself. If you were to switch this around a little and apply to the believe system itself. The belief is broken. The belief is flawed. The belief is evil.
It's not logical. It's not rational. It cannot be argued or debated against by any lucid rational reasoning or reasonable person...yet...people still try?
That's just crazy? And you wonder why people with ADHD get angry? Teh problem isn't ADHD....the problem is in the belief system itself. The system is what's broken...and then so follows anyone who still believes it.
This is the BIG LIE....and I refuse to believe it any more from all the heart and suffering this has caused me my entire life.
It's why I will never openly align myself or call myself a "Christian" even though I beleive in everything that Jesus taught us without any doubt in my mind what so ever. I also will never go into a Church with other people who have this in their thinking and be a part of that exclusive club I was talking about.
I rejected it for a reason....and that reason saved my life. If I had bought in...and done what I was told....I would have committed suicide long again and wouldn't be here right now writing this to you.
I was the identified patient in my family. I retained my own autonomy and my own identity as a person at a cost for my independence and freedom from this kind of oppression. The same as the "seekers" you referred to but....
I'm not a seeker, a radical, a rebel, an outsider or any other group or pigeon hole someone would like to put me into. That include "they" as in ADHD.
There is no "THEY" ,"US", "WE" or "THEM" if you aren't thinking like a co-dependent. That's the huge Neon Red Flag of a sign of weakness.
And as I have had to fight all myself against this to maintain my own personal identity as an individual and stubbornly resisted any attempts that were being made by any of my past relationships by the women I've been with to get me co-dependent like them....as is my wife now currently
I will die first...before that day will ever come. I'm just a guy and a human being dong my thing. That's all I am...and all I ever want to be. I have no label other than that and that's how I see all other human beings too.
If my wife refuses to let go her co-dependent thinking and the denial built into this belief in this way....she knows where the door is and I won't do anything to stop her and wish well on a happy co-dependent life in Hell with another co-dependent thinker just like her. No skin off my nose....I won't have to fight the same fight I've fighting my entire life. It doesn't even bother me to do it and I will always win with anyone who wants to fight me on this. I only win....when it comes to life and death games like this. She is childs play when it comes to this game....I'm a Pro and better at it than anyone I know. In comparison...it's exactly like an adult....going up against a child mentality in playing a battle of wits and it's not even fair on her behalf. It's why I allow her so much grace and forgiveness since she is a an extreme disadvantage compared to me in this game of codependents.
It will be a cold day in Hell when I lose to someone playing this game with me.
And the only reason and my only intention in saying any of this to you C. Is not to make you feel bad. It's not to make you angry and it's not to be disrespectful in any way. It's to show you how I have been fighting a belief system itself...not the actual flesh and blood human being standing front of me. An individual with individual rights and basic human needs for love, acceptance and understanding....just like me. But co-dependence makes this impossible. Co-dependence is the enemy not human beings. It's why I think it is evil and destructive because of the inherent divisiveness it causes.
A human being....not an extension of some broken belief system. As I see you right now. You're just a guy....looking for answers....doing his own thing.
There is no "WE". There's just you and I and we are both different. Just like all human beings are no matter where you go. That's the only club I belong too and it has no label other than Human and "guy". That's it.
But the truth in what you said...really is the reality of the world we live in....I just don't subscribe to the belief. My only fight is against a belief...it's never against the person believing it. And if you are co-dependent....you can't say that. There is no denying that:)
J
That's the message!
Submitted by c ur self on
We are all WE's, WE are all sinners....That's the message....That's what GRACE is...It's mercy and forgiveness for US WE's who can never deserve it, earn it, or find it......That is why I hate religion....It is blinding and destructive....
C
Yep.....C
Submitted by kellyj on
What it is my brother.....what IT is:)
Peace
J
I'm speechless, JJamieson!!!
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I'm speechless, JJamieson!!! That is a shit storm of hate and bigotry. The words that come to mind are alienation, brainwashing, and child abuse. Hypocrisy runs rampant in religion. It's remarkable that you were able to see past the hate and open your eyes to a different way of thinking.
You know, fear based religion
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
You know, fear based religion really does a lot of damage. Personally, I refuse to "join" a church or become a "member" of a church. I have no interest in being a Baptist or a Methodist. I only want to be a member of the body of Christ.
I absolutely refuse to attend a church that leads with fear. Any church that leads with fear is a cult, in my opinion. I only attend churches that lead with love and grace.
Im so sorry you had such a terrible Christian experience.
Thank You For Saying That Hopeless
Submitted by kellyj on
I feel as you do. I have nothing against the Christian faith. It is the one I gew up with and know. But I can do without that fear thing in fact like you....I refuse to accept that as part of Christianity. It's a perversion.
J
I'm sorry too J
Submitted by Delphine on
My own experience was unique...I was raised in the Catholic faith per my grandmother's wish, yet my Dad was an atheist!
I benefited much from my schooling at the Convent...a beautiful school, and the nuns were very kind. I never felt or saw the kind of poisonous perspective you describe, J.
I did see my Dad as being very smart, and so his atheism gave me pause. It was an interesting balancing act, resolving that dichotomy. But he didn't push his pov on us, either. I was confirmed in the faith...but I am no longer active in the church and haven't been since my teens.
Today I would not say I am religious per se, although I still have fond memories of the Convent, and I like to sit in church sometimes, just to absorb the atmosphere and meditate a bit.
I do believe in prayer, and as I think I've said before, I see it as a change in consciousness, not as pleading with an outside source. There is actually no outside source. "Know thyself that you may know God." Some enlightened Christians speak of this. http://www.pastorkirk.com/files/5932cbcfbc9fb8389453173fbefc7cfc-47.html
J...appreciated your further thoughts on your trip...and I agree, it wasn't the acid that did it...that was your "permission slip" for the experience. Like the feather Dumbo thought he needed in order to fly. Many of those Disney movies contain very deep messages!
Also appreciate the reference to Eckhart Tolle, one of my top teachers. I didn't know he had taken acid. I went looking and found:
http://arsspiritus.com/spiritual-master-eckhart-tolles-lsd-experience/
He actually said his "trip" sans acid was better.
I giggled at your accounts of the police and the mushroom picking. Thanks for sharing that! :D Yeah, I've heard of those mushroom growing kits, I may look into that, although I think it's not something I would want to do too often.
A little wine is fine :) And a toke or two...
Delphine
Thanks....Delphine
Submitted by kellyj on
There is a little more too it as far as my mother is concerned and religion. Her mother did a number on her from the time she was born until she left the house and got married to my father. I have referred to my Grandmother as a Puritanical Dominatrix before on this forum. Spot on!! lol
The messages I got about religion were not of my mothers.....they were of her mothers. I could tell by the language as she said them. It was almost an impression of my Grandmother it was so close and easy to see. Yet my poor mother...had no idea. Her beleifs...were not her own.
Where my Grandmother got these ideas....I have no idea?
See
"Ya neva gonna catch me Coppa....See" lol
J
On the Acid Trips
Submitted by kellyj on
You mentioned your ex bf doing a bunch of Acid? My time with that was not trying to stay that way or keep recreating something. Leary? Bah! He was too idealistic and full of himself. I actually talked about this with my T and he said the same thing. You don't it to get there and Echarts way is better in the long run.
Having said that. I'm not a self medicater by nature. Never have been. Recriational? Yes. Drugs are not a big part of my life and I have never relied on them to fix or solve my problems for me. I want to spend some more time getting into more that I learned by adding some more parts to this. It's really what I set out to do anyway...
The one thing that seems to be agreed on and what I was really wondering about at first (the surprise and shock that it happened in such a good way) in a nut shell.....
If your trying to make it happen....it won't. If your searching for answers in the drug....you won't find them. (Leary, Keesey and their posse) If you are trying to control it with expectations....you'll be disappointed. If you need anything at all and over think it. It will take you where ever your thinking it will.
For me....I spent all of 5 minutes thinking about it ahead of time....and then got in my car and picked up my friend. And then just did it. No expectations, no need really, not really wanting anything from it other than I needed something (anything really) just to lift my spirits. The only expectation I had. And I was in a state of kind of giving up.....
Which is to say....I was ready for anything....and ready to let go of everything before I took it. I had not expectations what so ever and remember....I didn't even think it was going to work and kind of thought it wouldn't.
I think this is the kind of blank piece of paper....that is open for this kind of thing to happen and most do not have those conditions....right from the git go.
And yes....I quit Pot for years and only recently tried it again for a specific reason...and that was to test to see how it worked for ADHD. I found it doesn't really do much for ADHD....but it works pretty well for anxiety. I am anxious/preoccupied as my default insecure attachment.
Earned secure means.....I've learned how to manage it. It doesn't make the original attachment....completely disappear.
Having said that....I'm starting a couple plants to grow at home for anxiety alone in the evening. I've found it helps as needed and I don;t worry about getting into a self medicating type addictive thing. That's never been a problem for me as I said.
Since it's legal where I live...and since I love to garden and grow things....I can't pass up the opportunity...to grow some right on my back deck where the sun hits the best....and not have to worry about getting arrested. lol
They allow 4 plants at a time legally...and that's more than enough for me....and then some. I just think the plants themselves look cool anyway.
They'll make a great addition to the ambiance of my deck! lol And if I need some before then....it's like going to a 7-11 now to buy it. Really...you walk in and there's show cases of everything imaginable and there's one right down my street!
I'm still trying use to that! It still feels so weird...... like I'm doing something wrong....but I'm not????? lol
J
I agree J
Submitted by Delphine on
...re what you said here: I
f your trying to make it happen....it won't. If your searching for answers in the drug....you won't find them. (Leary, Keesey and their posse) If you are trying to control it with expectations....you'll be disappointed. If you need anything at all and over think it. It will take you where ever your thinking it will.
Although, I think it is fine to hope for a good experience...I don't see hope as being the same as expectation. Just don't hope too hard. :) I think this applies to a lot of things.
(edited out due to posting rules)
Thanks For Picking Up on.... This Delphine
Submitted by kellyj on
If you're trying to make it happen....it won't.
If your searching for answers in the drug....you won't find them. (Leary, Keesey and their posse)
If you are trying to control it with expectations....you'll be disappointed.
If you need anything at all (from it) and over think it. It will take you where ever your thinking is when you take it.
I wanted to talk about this further and you already can see the corollary being made here as too: your relationships with others. Your intimate relationships....and your relationship to yourself and they things seem to work....on the outside of you or in the external world we live in.
I really wasn't trying to do this intentionally that's the point. This is exactly as I experienced it right to the letter.
This is one of those Universal discoveries in the secrets of the Universe I was talking about. It seems to be a repetitive pattern that is extremely predictable in real life ....over and over and over:)
And the lesson I learned here (once again).....those answers and everything you are looking for on the outside or you in the external world...are all inside your own head. If you're looking for them else where.....you're looking in the wrong place and will never find them that way.
I have more to say and apply to this is later installments.
And thanks for the heads up on the Kanna....I'll check into it further I'm interested. Thanks
J
yes...it's all within
Submitted by Delphine on
One of the best-kept secrets--the answers are within us. The Kingdom of Heaven, too :)
Post on, J...
Delphine
Yes...It Was Hopeless
Submitted by kellyj on
and the root cause of all that hatred and biggorty is fear. You can't have hate without fear. Fear is just there to tell you to do something...it isn't there to live with constantly and fuel hatred....as far as I can tell? I really don't experience hate that often...but If I do....I know it's time to do something about it since it's telling me something about myself that needs to be fixed or corrected. That's what emotions are there for...to tell you to do something....not to follow them blindly like I saw in my family. As I said...this is ignorant. I've also said this before here on the forum....that when my wife acts these things out like she does at times....it's primitive. Ignorant...primitive....same difference?
Cave man make tool.....Cave man no fool. LOL
J
PS As far as co-dependence goes in referring it to evil? As it was...my mother herself was not evil. She was co-dependent so badly...she had no identity and no mind of her own. It's the trickle down, chipping away effect when you have no mind of original thoughts of your own.
For my mother she deferred herself entirely to my father. He was the source. NPD..ASPD. His thoughts...became her thoughts but her heart and her ability to Love were taken over by my fathers mind control and she followed him blindly.
Until the day she grew some BIG Cajonies...and took herself back for my sake out of the Love she had. I knew she Loved me and she was not filled with hate without question....I just couldn't explain the only part that didn't make sense when I'd hear my father....speaking through my mother...like a Puppet and a Ventriloquist? I now understand why? The wedge in between my mother and I...was my father. He was the one filled with hate....and everyone else just went along and followed him blindly out of fear of him. I learned not to be afraid of him and he couldn't control me. It's why he hated me. He had no Love to give..but more importantly...I wouldn't play ball. Co-dependence is just bad no matter which way you slice it.
C, I have always enjoyed Keith Green
Submitted by dedelight4 on
The story of Keith Green is very inspirational. His music is BEYOND inspired, and has a LOT of depth and meaning. I still remember where I was when I heard about the tragedy where he and one of his children were killed In a plane crash. But Keith is home with the ONE he so earnestly sung about. (Jesus) Melody Green (his wife) wrote about their lives, and how they went from rock and Roll musicians, drugs and a rough life to where they ended up. Incredible story. Keith wrote his life in music and wrote very moving songs, as well as humorous ones. I still lOVE listening to his music. One of his songs that many churches sing today is "O Lord Your''re Beautiful.
Hi Dede,,,,
Submitted by c ur self on
I came to know about Keith and his life by accident; About 15 years ago I was headed up to a Native American Reservation is South Dakota to do some mission work and make new friends....I hadn't really heard about Keith at the time, but, I grabbed a CD off the shelf to listen to for the long ride and drive...The words of his songs ministered to me so greatly, that I read up on his life....It's just another great story of how Jesus breaks through into our lives....
My favorite Song.....Your love broke through...... Like waking up from the longest dream, how real it seemed / Until your love broke through / I've been lost in a fantasy, that blinded me / Until your love broke through…
C