Submitted by Libby on 08/05/2019.
This has may have been discussed before but I am wondering how far the non ADD spouse should go in helping with the fallout of the their spouse losing things. My DH lost his wallet. He has searched high and low without my help. He is now demanding that I call the credit card companies for him to report the lost cards. I am fatigued not only by this but by the daily dramas . I told him I am not making those calls for him. Am I being unreasonable? If I lost my credit cards I wouldn't expect anyone else to deal with it....
I would personally do the same
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I no longer help my husband find things and I definitely wouldn't call the credit card companies for him. I know what it is like to deal with the anger and fallout when we don't help. It is extremely hard to stand your ground and still feel like a good wife/person. I think everyone should follow their own heart in regards to how they deal with their spouse, but in my opinion, you are doing the "right" thing if your goal is to hold him accountable, not enable and keep your own boundaries. It's not unreasonable.
I guess I am struggling a bit
Submitted by Libby on
I guess I am struggling a bit because my adult sons are also saying I should be the one calling. He lost his wallet but I am the bad wife for not wanting to make those calls for him? I don't get it. And how do I explain all of the other dynamics to adult kids. Why do I even have to explain anything to them? Maybe I should tell them about their father screaming at me that I am so lazy for not helping him.
This part is hard to handle.
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
This part is hard to handle. :( My husband's parents and sisters definitely "expect" me to take care of him, and I face their criticism often for not swooping in to cover for him and clean up his messes anymore. You absolutely deserve the same respect as everyone else gets and did not vow to be the on-call disaster clean up crew for life. I have read your response from today and it looks like you have decided to stay the course on this one. I bet you will feel better about yourself in the long run despite what others in your life think or say. Hope this episode ends soon for you!
Financially speaking...
Submitted by SOS - Sound of ... on
We don’t have any issues of losing things here so I cannot speak to the frustrations associated with that and I am sorry you are in the midst of this right now. With that being said, does anything in that lost wallet have a financial impact on you such as joint credit cards? If so, I would want those taken care of for my own sake as you know any fallout from those would probably fall to you anyway. Some may see that as enabling, he may see it as helpful but I view that as covering my own financial a$$. Good luck, Libby.
He had both personal and
Submitted by Libby on
He had both personal and business cards in his wallet. I have been keeping an eye on the accounts online. We do earth work for our business so I suspect his wallet is buried somewhere. His ignorant screaming behaviours have taken away any desire to help him with this.
Understood
Submitted by SOS - Sound of ... on
I hope it turns out alright then
I agree.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
Especially if your husband's wallet had a debit card connected to savings/checking accounts. If you have a joint account, it could wipe you out financially. I do, however agree that as an adult, he should be able to contact whomever he needs to report the card(s) stolen. If the cards are strictly his, don't let him or anyone else guilt you into making the phone calls for him.
BTW, my ex husband used to yell at me when he couldn't find his things. I would think to myself "How should I know where you left it? If you put your stuff back in the same place all the time, it wouldn't be missing!" Of course, I never said it out loud. Doing so would have been an invitation for an arguement.
Fair vs. self-interest
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
Yes, it is unfair for him to want you to do this. BUT it would be worse if someone uses his lost cards and you share in the debt that is run up.
It was not fair that my wife did not pay a parking ticket she was responsible for. But it was even more unfair when I lost my license because of it! The next time I found out she had a ticket, I paid it online and kept my license.
Why are your kids saying you should do it?
Submitted by Dagmar on
Have you asked everyone involved why your husband can't do it? He needs to feel the consequences of his actions, but I get why it's hard to let things go. I always end up bearing the brunt of my husband's screw-ups and that's why he keeps making them. He has no consequences!
That is the dynamics in our
Submitted by Libby on
That is the dynamics in our family. It is a deeply rooted need to take care of dad.. And I seem to be invisible.
I feel you; I often feel invisible, too
Submitted by daizzebelle on
I'm so sorry. It is not a good feeling.
This is a catch 22
Submitted by adhd32 on
In my opinion there is no right answer. I have been in this exact spot too. My husband loses cell phones regularly. In the last 3 years he has misplaced at least 8, one he claims was stolen but that is doubtful. I think he made up a story because the phone was only 2 weeks old. He had the good fortune of getting 2 out of the 8 phones back. He took my advice (sometimes miracles happen) and taped his business card to the back of one and a good citizen mailed it to his office, the other was returned to him by an enterprising young man for the finder's fee of $20. As per the ADD code he puts his things down on any horizontal surface instead of ritualistically returning things to their proper place. His job requires him to move from building to building in our very large city servicing mechanical equipment. While working he will often remove his wallet, keys, and/or phone from his pockets but instead of putting them in his bag or coat he sets them down anywhere. Then he leaves for the next stop and either remembers and has to go back or realizes when he is on the train home and has no ticket. Luckily the equipment rooms have no access so he can usually retrieve his lost items. I'm not very sympathetic to his foibles, he refuses to even try to change his habits by sticking to a routine.
He does this at home too. He thrashes around going from room to room searching for the misplaced item which is usually on some horizontal surface either above or below eye level. After the first decade (married over 35 years) I stopped helping unless there was a joint account that would impact me. I told him that I am not permitted to make requests on accounts that are not in my name so those are on him, same with the DMV. The internet has all the information he needs to report lost cards and since he spends so much time on it, certainly he can figure out how to do it just like I would do. If he couldn't read, or had a sight disability, or English was not his first language, I think help is reasonable but come on already! I cannot control my irritation at him during these times and we end up in a fight. So now, the most I will do is answer him if he asks if I've seen his missing item. This is a big deal. I used to get sucked in by his complaining only to be yelled at when asking questions like, When did you last have it? Did you buy anything and maybe put it down on the counter? After one of these events I told him that I can no long help due to his nasty attitude.
You are married to my husband
Submitted by Libby on
You are married to my husband's twin! I have many times told myself that he is just like pigpen of the Peanuts comic strip. Stuff just falls off him as he goes along.
I have been married for 38 years and do not have much sympathy for his dramas.
31 years of lost items
Submitted by Yinyogi on
Hubs continually loses things for 31 years of marriage. I also started losing track but realized it was because he was removing things from a location I had designated such as scissors kept in a container beside stove and another set on my desk. Hammers could be kept in any of 7 places so I could not even hang a picture. I now have a toolbox he cannot touch. The kitchen scissors still end up in the basement, garden, garage but he knows the scissors on my desk cannot be touched.
After my heart surgery I am
more forgetful and lose things so I got myself tested. Definitely some cognitive losses and definitely not ADHD. But I cannot make up for all the gaps that’s occur as I used to. Cannot keep 20 balls in the air simultaneously. So now he is actually helping me find lost stuff now. He is not having an easy time with the transition. And now I become more anxious when things are not put back where they should be because I am the one setting stuff down and forgetting where the heck it is. Tables are turning a bit and he is reeling from it. He is working and I am not. He was so not happy when he had to go to work 1/2/20 and I was sleeping in. Personally I am loving my rest and time to myself.
I'm sorry for you that your
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I'm sorry for you that your children and husband are nagging you about this matter. Reporting the lost cards is your husband's responsibility. However, if you are concerned about the potential financial and legal effects on you, it might be reasonable for you to contact the companies. I also suggest that if you decide to do so, let your husband know that you are doing so not to help him but to protect yourself.
Nope. Not unless it impacted
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Nope. Not unless it impacted on me financially. He has long standing coping methods for this particular range of symptoms (operates mostly in cash, limits the rooms he uses and flat surface options, ties all important things to him with a chain, etc) and he can use them as he has done for the majority of his life. It takes more time, but it works. And to be fair, I am the last extreme he will visit, much like if I lose something he is my last stop. The only time I will help find things voluntarily is if I know where the item in question is .... eventually, lol. Even then, it will be when he has calmed down. With a ribbon on it, and a side of sardonic.
More seriously - you ringing won't stop his anger anyway, as it is not because of you, it is born out of the frustration of losing something again and spinning himself into another chaos cycle. I would be removing myself from range.
I have no advice for how to handle your children, but they presumably want the arguing to stop and that is what they see as the quickest way. Maybe reiterate that it is not an emergency and he can do it at any point of time? He is just frustrated.
I think your husband is being
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
I think your husband is being ridiculous. I am the ADHD partner, and I would never demand my husband do that for me. It sounds like he was demanding, am I misreading this part? Sure, my husband has helped me out of ADHD scrapes, but I hate being in that position, you know? I don't want to be beholden to anyone (though my husband has been telling me sometimes I need to humble myself and ask for help; we all have our strengths and weaknesses). It's not my fault I am hard-wired to be like this, but it my continual responsibility to find a work around. I lose my cell phone (within the house) frequently, so I ping it from my computer. I only own one purse (simplicity) and it slings across me diagonally. I never take it off in a restaurant, even though it probably looks silly. It's a coping mechanism, and I do not care what others think. I agree with the person who said your kids probably wanted the most linear solution to your husband's irritation, and you appear to be it. I also suspect you have established a helpless Dad dynamic in your family, so they were just asking you to follow the established script. Your husband does this because he doesn't get how irresponsible he is being when he gets angry about what YOU'RE not doing to solve his GROWN MAN problems. Trust me on this. It's partially your dynamic and also his ADHD. He doesn't see how all the events are linked together: the many disasters he leaves in his wake, what he could be doing differently to avoid this type of scenario more often, and how it is his damn JOB as a person with the albatross of ADHD to take some initiative and actually problem-solve.
I understand what others are saying about credit being affected, so do what you need to do there. But I would have a conversation when he's calmer (and hopefully, medicated) about what his responsibilities are as a person who is constantly starting fires you are expected to extinguish. And then keep reminding him what you are not willing to do and follow through. He seems a bit entitled from your description, and he WILL make it worse for you if you try to shift without guilt, because right now, this situation works for him. He's getting something out of it. Someone to transfer his frustration to AND solve his problems for him. He won't go down without a fight, I suspect.
Like I said, I'm the ADHD partner. But I have also been working hard with my therapist to work on boundaries with my husband. And he was NOT receptive at first. Not even a little bit. But as you gain confidence flexing that new muscle, it will get easier, I promise. My husband could sense my lack of confidence and resolve when this was new. And with time, if you work on the way you treat him (I always assume ALL people can do better in marriage) while also establishing boundaries, his respect for you will grow. For example, recently, I talked to my husband about not texting while driving, and at first, he said he didn't really do that. Uh-huh. I've seen it. But because my memory stinks, he dismissed my assessment of the situation. So I had to out smart him. Lol. We have a child with ADHD who will be driving soon, and so I took a picture of him doing that and texted the picture to him, mentioning my concerns, telling him he can't be doing that, and saying he can be mad if he wants. Well, he freaking apologized!!! :D No excuses, no drama, no shifting of blame, just straight up accountability. We're starting to turn a corner, and man, have I worked hard to get to this point. It's never too late to change the dynamic. You don't have to keep playing the same roles.
Spot on
Submitted by daizzebelle on
I can't figure out how to stop playing the role of rescuer. Every time I take steps to stop protecting him from the natural consequences of his poor choices, instead of stepping up and taking responsibility, he acts even more helpless. It is exasperating.
Tell us more about this...
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
Here's what I am wondering:
1. How much anxiety and ambivalence do you have in letting go?
2. Do you relent partway through when he ramps up his BS, after having told him otherwise (aka, how is the follow through)?
3. What are some typical examples where he cannot or "cannot" function?
4. Is he being treated for his ADHD?
5. Do you feel guilty trying to let go?
6. What else is behind this, on your end?
7. Was he enabled growing up?
8. Do you go from one extreme to another (doing everything to going on strike and back again)?
9. What's a relatively straightforward thing he could start doing (with perhaps some scaffolding-or not-) instead of you doing it?
10. Can you accept that he will not approach a task like you?
^ This, all of it.
Submitted by Sollertiae on
11. Is it okay that he might not be completely successful? Because this happens to us all.
Hi, thanks for asking!
Submitted by daizzebelle on
1. Yes. My anxiety is that the children's needs won't be met if I don't do it myself.
2. Yes, I give up and do it myself. Otherwise we have nothing to eat/electricity or water gets cut off/ children have no shoes or clothes/ children do not get picked up.
3. 2 years ago I took a higher paying job. It meant working 50 hours a week. He said he would step up and do more. I asked him to have dinner on the table when I got home from work. I tried to make it as simple as possible for him. I ordered the groceries online and paid for them. All he had to do was drive to the grocery store after work and call the phone number on the sign in the parking lot, and they would bring out the groceries and put them in the car. I wrote out a meal plan on the whiteboard next to the stove so he would know what to cook. I printed out the recipes and put the recipes on the recipe holder. He decided to go home and lie down for a few minutes instead of going straight to the store. He got to the store too late and couldn't pick up the groceries. Since no one came they put the groceries back on the shelves. I ordered the groceries again. He got there in time but didn't bring all of the groceries inside the house and lots of cold things spoiled in the heat. So I had everything delivered to the front door. He started cooking. He called me 5 times because he either couldn't find spices or he couldn't find any pans or he didn't know what to do even though the recipe had step by step instructions. I gave up on this plan. I used my weekends to prep meals and freeze them. All he had to do was take the meal out of the freezer and put it in the Instant Pot. He did this but did not turn the Instant Pot on. So dinner was still frozen when I got home from work. I gave up and bought tv dinners that I cooked myself when I got home from work.
4. He takes Adderall. It wears off by the time he gets home from work. I asked him if he could take a small dose to get him through the evening when the kids need help with homework. He said he can't take another dose bc it will keep him up at night. In My experience he is up anyway...his anxiety keeps him awake. I helped him find an app for meditation. He doesn't use it because.."It's boring." He is not using the tools that his coach set up for him. He says he quit using her prescribed method because "it is boring." We took Melissa's seminar. He fell asleep a few minutes into every session. I suggested that he listen to the recordings. No follow through.
5. Not anymore. I'm exhausted.
6. The children have needs and those are not optional. I can take care of myself when he doesn't follow through. They can do a lot of things for themselves, and they do. However, for example, they have to be picked up from math tutoring on time. I can't do that bc I am at work.
7. Yes. His parents and his sister still enable him. I've asked them nicely to please stop.They haven't.
8. I don't go on strike. If I did we would have no food to eat, among other things. We agreed that I would work part time during the school year so that I wouldn't be giving up my weekends to cook and clean. But he was fired from his job for not completing a program that was required in order to keep his job. He had 3 years to get it done but he didn't get it done. His severance pay runs out August 15th. He has applied for one job since April. He has had no interviews. I've applied for 5 jobs since last Monday. I have an interview for a full time job today.
9. He could take out the trash.
10. Yes.
11. Yes, I make mistakes all the time. I don't give up.
I understand you answers completely daizzebelle...
Submitted by c ur self on
Stay centered....Breathe....Take care of yourself, (physical and emotional state), and your children...Keep your life as small and simple as possible, based on the reality you have to deal with...We have to accept what isn't there, no matter how it appears to others....
c
Hi c, I am no longer willing to accept
Submitted by daizzebelle on
the things I cannot change. That is why I am leaving him. I am not willing to work full time, and pay all of the bills, and give up my weekends to cook and clean, and continually remind my H to pick up the children, turn off the stove, take out the trash, remember my birthday, call his doctor before his meds run out etc etc etc etc. Yes, he has ADD. No, he is not incapable. There is a difference between "can't" and "won't". He can set a reminder or alarm on his phone. He won't. He can use the tools set up for him by his coach. He won't. He can listen to the recordings of the seminar. He won't. He can apply for more than one job. He won't. I am not willing anymore to do for him what he won't do for himself.
daizzebelle, I agree with you
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
daizzebelle, I agree with you about distinguishing among things a person can't do and things a person doesn't do. I know a few people, including my ex-husband and a close friend, who frequently say they "can't" do things when the truth is that they have chosen not to do things. The reasons for their choices might be good or they might be not good, but recognizing when something is a choice and when it's not is, I think, vital.
Yes, exactly...
Submitted by daizzebelle on
And choices have consequences. I've told my H many times that refusing to make a choice also has consequences. By refusing to decide, you may be able to avoid the consequences for a little while, but eventually not making a decision leads to a consequence, just like choosing A or B leads to a consequence. The difference is while I may not like either of my choices, at least when I choose one or the other, I am retaining some personal power/autonomy. When I refuse to make a choice or decision, I lose some of my autonomy, and that feels disempowering.
Not choosing is choosing
Submitted by adhd32 on
OMG! This is what I have said many times over the years to H. H is choosing the consequences of his inaction. On some level I think he is also choosing to have someone else to blame if things come crashing down. To me it is almost as if he feels that since didn't choose A or B he isn't responsible for the outcome. When things go awry and he didn't act in advance of a deadline, he will invariably say "they did this" meaning that since he didn't respond or make a choice, one was made for him. He steadfastly holds on to the "they" in one of these scenarios, making himself blameless. I stopped pointing out that he had a choice and didn't act once I came to accept that the missed deadlines were not some mistake but a product of his inaction. I am no longer sympathetic to his being a "victim" nor do I get involved trying to fix the problem. I walk away.
Daizzebelle
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I agree.
Big difference between can't and won't. You will run yourself in to the ground if you continue to live the way you are now. Acceptance doesn't help relieve your burdens. It also doesn't set a good example for your children.
I'm sorry you are going through this. :(
Thank you Adele
Submitted by daizzebelle on
The good news is I was offered a full time job today, and I accepted. I'm making plans and moving forward.
Congratulations!
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Congratulations!
Thank you so much poison ivy!
Submitted by daizzebelle on
I am excited!
Congratulations! I am so
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
Congratulations! I am so happy for you.
Thank you Adele!
Submitted by daizzebelle on
Making plans and moving forward ☺ It feels good.
Way to go!!
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
What fantastic news! :) Congratulations!
Melody
Submitted by daizzebelle on
Thanks so much!
Acceptance.....
Submitted by c ur self on
True Acceptance is what allows us to make decisions peacefully....Even if that decision is the end of our one sided relationship efforts....
Yes, very wise C,
Submitted by daizzebelle on
Thank you!
Yes, very wise C,
Submitted by daizzebelle on
Thank you!
daizzebelle....
Submitted by c ur self on
Yes....Most of us who live in situations like you (many of us) do, know that we have only a few options.....I've worked real hard to find ways to be aware of my own actions (to love and accept her), while not enabling behaviors that are intrusive and selfish in nature....Adults need to feel the pain of their wrong behaviors....Are they never grow....Short term Separation...Long term Separation, and Divorce is always on the table in these unhealthy marriage relationships....
I just wish you all the best...
c
Thank you, C!
Submitted by daizzebelle on
I wish the best for you and your wife also.
The Duck that laid the Golden Egg....LOL....
Submitted by c ur self on
(Your husband does this because he doesn't get how irresponsible he is being when he gets angry about what YOU'RE not doing to solve his GROWN MAN problems. Trust me on this. It's partially your dynamic and also his ADHD. He doesn't see how all the events are linked together: the many disasters he leaves in his wake, what he could be doing differently to avoid this type of scenario more often, and how it is his damn JOB as a person with the albatross of ADHD to take some initiative and actually problem-solve.)
Hi ADHDMomof2;)....After 6 years of reading and sharing on this site...along w/ 11 years of living w/ my very beautiful, and very add wife...I've learned to recognize statements that tell a real truth about what is behind so much of the dysfunction in our attempts to a "HAPPY MARRIAGE" :) ;)....This statement of yours (i highlighted) is something that has great depth, and great truth...This reality you spoke of here, didn't come to you w/o much pain, self-awareness, and WORK....It can help everyone of us who is willing to accept it, and learn from it....
I'm glad you and your husband are working on boundaries....The need for boundaries alone identifies each partners blindspots, if (BIG IF) we are willing to see ourselves, (puke up the blame and justification of intrusive behaviors) and own it....So Soooo much can be done in marriages where adhd/add is present, if ownership of tendencies (by both partners, one want work) allow's for respected boundaries to be set and honored....
I learn from you, (how to accept my wife, and be aware of my own negative tendencies, reactions, etc) because i have no emotional defense mech. built in with you....Thank you again for sharing, it's like my wife was able to form the words (move past her denial) I need to hear, when I read your stuff.....Priceless! :)
c
This statement of yours (i
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
This statement of yours (i highlighted) is something that has great depth, and great truth...This reality you spoke of here, didn't come to you w/o much pain, self-awareness, and WORK...
Yes, sir! You hit the nail on the head! ALL OF THIS! But everything I'm truly proud of in life has involved pain, self-awareness, and work, and I accept it as part of the journey. I'm always, always looking to better myself.
I learn from you, (how to accept my wife, and be aware of my own negative tendencies, reactions, etc) because i have no emotional defense mech. built in with you..
I appreciate your kind words. c. One thing I've been working on in therapy is digging deeper than I ever thought was necessary (truly) and becoming more open all the time to what I can be doing differently, even when I think I have done EVERYTHING to the best of my ability and I can't do any better today. I am finding my openness has exposed new areas for growth, and these areas are what is turning things around. This came to me after I had plateaued in therapy and was wondering why we were still so stuck! So I started to listen harder to my husband's complaints, and brought them to therapy to discuss. Because before that it just felt like all he freaking did was complain. And he is a bit type A, which can be challenging for someone like me. It was getting to the point he just sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher; Wah wah wah. ;) And I heard something on a podcast which said, "The point of conflict is understanding." Not solving all of our problems, which my husband claimed was the point. And John Gottmann says that about 70% of marital problems are unsolvable! So I have started to learn to ask questions about his position, and (GET THIS) listen so well during some fights/conflict that I'm not thinking about my response, but about what he is trying to say. So I have started to learn a skill that by definition, seems almost impossible for someone like me.
And my husband is FINALLY (!!!!!) starting to shift HIS behavior. Humility beyond anything I have known thus far has been key.
Y'all are so us....:)
Submitted by c ur self on
How many times when I've been pressing a point, (hopefully use to press) do you think I've heard Wah Wah Wah from my wife?...That lack of concern just use to piss me off, and make me feel hopeless that she could ever care about anything to do w/ us, in those moments.....But, I've come to realize a few things about these times of conflict...One: I'm the guilty one, for doing the high anxiety pressing (pointing it out)...Because she's a grown women who understands her behaviors, no matter what they do to us in the time together department.... And she deserve's my respect and kindness, (the same things I want from her) even if we disagree, and even if I have to walk away from the attempted discussion empty, and feeling like my thoughts were disregarded and not heard....These instances where I feel unconsidered, or feel like our life together is just an albatross to her good time pursuits, isn't really what is going on in her mind....I've learned that her hyper-focus isn't meant to starve us from happiness or even time together...Just because every person (friend, child, grand child) place, or event takes on a life of it's own, doesn't mean she loves me any less because of it....
Like you said....70% is non repairable....But humility and understanding is Golden.....
She has been working on the layout for a baby shower invitation.... (daughter in law) I tried to encourage her (I watched her set for the better part of three days in front of her lap top, and that was all the existed pretty much)....She just couldn't decide on a design....She finally finished it up to day and printed them out....She was so happy!....I was happy for her....
c
<3 to both of you.
Submitted by Sollertiae on
To both of you.
70% of conflict is simply because we are all 100% different people. The goal is co-existence and compassion for those differences. ADHD or not.