I found a site that is helpful to me to figure out why I let this happen to our marriage and what my part in it is. This is what happened to me and may be happening to you if you try too hard at a difficult relationship.
"Your instincts will be dulled and confused if you suppress your needs, expectations, wishes, feelings, and opinions, and you put those of others before your own in an attempt to gain validation, approval, attention, love etc. Your instincts will most definitely be off if you do all of the former as a means of avoiding disappointment, criticism, conflict, rejection and even abandonment. You won't know which way is up. If you've had various experiences and at the time, you've looked around for an explanation that would help you 'make sense' of what happened, and that reasoning pretty much boiled down to taking ownership of other people's feelings and behaviour and basically telling you that you weren't "good enough" or "loveable enough", your instincts are skewed because by accepting that version of events to be true and then adjusting your subsequent thinking and behaviour to 'fit in' and to also protect you from further pain, you've suppressed your true self as well as the truth."
In the process, I became less of a person, dull and serious. Trying to get our basic needs met...safety, sleep, financial security, family needs, property....before I can ENJOY friendship, intimacy, self-esteem, confidence, respect, creativity, I have become someone I don't like much anymore. Dh and I both don't like ourselves or each other any more.
I had been living in a fantasy relationship that didn't exist. It existed in my hopes and in my imagination but it was not REALLY happening in real life. Dh did not change into the person I was hoping he was inside his walls. I thought I could help him grow and love and be successful and especially I thought he would love me for my sacrifices and compromising I was willing to do. It turns out after 40 years of marriage that he hates me for witnessing (and now I think he even blames me) his failures. I blame me too for letting myself witness his failures and now I count it as my failure.
I permitted myself to be confused and try HARDER. This does not work. It is not up to me the change him. I thought enabling him to be successful and prop up his ego would be good. It worked for a while but 20 years ago he just stopped trying all together. He is who he is. He wants to be let alone and do what he wants, when he wants and with whom he wants. That is not a partnership but that is who he is. Now I am accepting that and I get to work on myself.
This is so insightful!
Submitted by redhead1017 on
And I totally agree with your assesment of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and how ADHD spouses address them. I'm going to definitely read this over and process more. I just finished reading Melissa's book; currently working on letting the spouse be who he is with zero interference from me - no nagging, no reminders, no trying to find him a job while I'm at my job, nothing. It's both freeing and wildly confusing, since I'm so used to doing everything for him at 22 years and counting. But it's so freeing because when he comes up with 25 new ideas a day - with no follow through - I don't have to cheerlead for every single one. He's responsible for cleaning out the multiple storages he has full of garbage - not me. He's responsible for finding himself a job - not me.
I don't have any expectations that he's going to finally step up to the plate and do any of this, but it's nice to focus on myself rather than him.
I'm curious as to where you
Submitted by Really123 on
I'm curious as to where you go for love and emotional support. I have long ago "let go" and "let him be him" but I cannot love him. I never tried to change him which I why I have been stuck for 16 years with a man I cannot love and who is incapable of having an emotional relationship with anyone. There is no emotional connection in our marriage. I want him out of my space because whenever he is in it, I have to deal with his pity party and bs. I yearn to hold a man's hand again before I die, I yearn to be held again. I yearn to be kissed by someone I love. I hate it when my husband says "I love you" it feels like a trap and makes me cringe. I am only 44.I
Our marriage works great until he crosses that line in trying to do the "love" thing even though his ADHD makes him a despicable, narcissist.
I am just curious as to how you have arranged to have love in your life...
Honestly I have to focus on
Submitted by redhead1017 on
Honestly I have to focus on myself - self-love, I guess you would call it, and my kids. I have spent too many years trying to "fix" him. He can't be fixed, and even if he could, it's not my place to do so. I have moved forward with my life and my expectations, for instance:
The common theme here is "I refuse". After reading Melissa's book I took a really hard look at myself and realized that I was enabling this behavior by trying to "help" him. Did it ever accomplish anything? Nope! Was I getting more and more stressed out? YEP!
That old phrase - the definition of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting a different result - really is the story of my marriage here. I've been trying and trying for 22 years and nothing, absolutely nothing, has changed. He is in the same exact place he was 22 years ago. But I don't have to stay with him there.
Once the dust settles from this change in my outlook - and I expect that to take a while, since it took me a while to get here - I'm going to take the next steps, whatever that might mean. I'm trying to not look too far forward.
What Happened to Me Too?
Submitted by anyguyoutthere on
Funny thing is I read Melissa's book as well bought a copy for my ADHD wife as well. Yes, I know that the book presents most of the examples of ADHD in the masculine, but I am one of those spouse with an ADHD wife. Once this was diagnosed, my wife had our three children, now adults, all evaluated and their doctor gave them all Adderal (sp?). Problem is, that only one of my daughters really has ADHD but since my wife has it, and given one of her symptoms which is to transpose her behaviors on to others, she believes that all of our children have it as well. Fortunately, one of my daughters has stopped the medication all togehter becuase she doesn't need it and my son takes it sparingly mostly for studying for exams.
But that's just background. I'm the 24 year spouse of a woman with ADHD which I can tell you all has gotten progressively and incrementally worse, year over year. There has been lying, sexual infidelity and financial infidelity including gambling and compulsive shopping. Those of you with an ADHD spouse know exactly what I am dealing with. The worst of it is that I have become the biggest enabler that anyone has ever met. When I used to resist the financial infidelity (and I'm an Accountant by trade) it became the excuse for many of the poor behaviors that were to follow including the sexual infidelity. I hope this rings a bell with some of you, but I was told "you hold me back" and "you are always negative" among many other daily insults that have completely broken me over the years. During her boyfriend days, you couldn't imaging the emasculating insults and blurts that came out.
That begs the questions of Why do I Stay and when I am asked that by close friends,I can't come up with an answer. I used to tell myself I did it for my children, but they know what I have been through and not one of them would blame me for leaving. Truth is, I think that although I'm still in great shape for my age my confidence has been completely sucked out of me.
Funniest thing about this is that I mentioned earlier that I bought two copies of Melissa's book and gave one copy to my ADHD wife. For those of you that have read the book, you'll know that the first half of the book covers the ADHD spouse and the second half begins to talk about the exhaustion that the ADHD partner experiences. My wife has her copy under the nightstand next to her bed. I gave it to her almost two years ago, and unfortunately it is bookmarked half way through the book so she really has no idea of the impact she has on me or anyone else for that matter.
I'm so frustrated and all I can think about is meeting someone nice that I can talk to. Isn't that a shame after 27 years?
anyguyoutthere...
Submitted by c ur self on
As I read your post and many other posts in this forum my heart just reaches out to you. So many of us have such similar stories...When these men and women on this site tell you "Hey I feel you" believe me they do!...I want to encourage you, I've only been married to my wife for six years and we were separated 11 months and went to a Christian counselor for 9 or 10 of those months. She came back 5 months ago. Here are some things I've learned about my wife, mostly through the pain that comes from engaging her, maybe you can I.D. with me. Her attitude toward life is to have fun and her actions are a full fledged attempt to make that happen...Control... Her basic need seems to be "I must feel good about myself" so any role a person plays in her life...Husband, children, family, friends...must modify themselves to adapt to her narcissistic desires for self gratification. I have watched her radiate toward the person or person's who is accepting of her need to feel good about herself. She will befriend younger girls on her job, and do things with them because they look up to her, and make her feel good about herself. Here are some other examples of her behavior: Pack rat to the point of mild hoarding (She is paying payments on the house she had when we married because she can't get rid of the junk in it...If you ask her she say's it's an investment, and she is planning on renting it...Nice plan, but in reality it's a large storage house, and just like most of her projects she will never follow through unless she can get someone to do it for her while she controls it. (unless it's about a party or fun times) If starting and completing something is considered a full circle...Then she lives her life in partial circles...ex..If she starts to clean out a drawer, she will get so distracted by what's in the drawer it will take her two hours or more, if she finishes it...If she tells me, I'm going to do the dishes...when she quits, the dish washer will be full and running, but the table, counter, and stove will still be dirty...and any pot and pans will still be in the sink. She lives her life on her time table, I have to go places like church gatherings etc...in a separate car...Because she will show up when its half over and think nothing about it...It is just the way she lives...My wife had two children in her 20's out of wedlock, she had never married. She was 46 when we married...So as for as I know there hasn't been any infidelity in our relationship. I do not like to make statements about what I will and want do, but more than likely I would move on if that started. I believe because of Christ's presents in my life I could forgive her. But I also believe neither of us would be bound to the marriage if one of us chooses the adultery road. I also ordered Melissa's book, and read most of it...It was helpful in understanding certain things about myself and add/adhd, so I offered it to my wife to read, It offended her. I too was an enabler, and to be honest still am to some degree...But, the reason we have been doing so well lately (did I say that:)) is because I had to decide to focus on myself...and make sure I do not engage my wife's behaviors that to me are not those that are mature and responsible. And because of denial, anything I could point out would only gender strife...And I refuse to own her stuff...I also had to quit trying to "save my life"...It only made me miserable...and gave her someone to blame. So I am starting to uncover the Gold nugget for my own sanity and it is to just love her!... The way this love plays out day to day is to just walk away...do not engage or participate in poor behavior, do not offer advise, (unless sought in a calm censer way). If I focus on being a good loving husband, and making sure I do not use add behaviors as an excuse for me to be angry then we move forward...You may say why does this work...well for me my wife will follow me emotionally...If I ignore her bad behavior and just let her own it...She will see it...If I engage it verbally it will always be my fault, in her mind she's exonerated...example: She got to me a few weeks ago driving up to the mountains for a few days of Vac...And I said you are acting like a Bi (which she was, but I was wrong to point it out, and did apologize to her)....So in 60 seconds...I was Ba..twice and a several other things :)...She will always top you are die trying...But, if I endure, humble myself...she will either calm down and some times apologize...Plus she holds a grudge pretty well too...I have not found any magic that will dispel add/adhd and it's effects, but love and humility is the best mirror I have found; even for someone who doesn't want to see...and bitterness and anger is the best food I've found to feed it....Maybe you are a good listener; I have never been, but I am working on it...It is so helpful...She has trouble following in conversation, but talks great :) So, I am working on being a better listener...I understand your loneliness, but if I could suggest one thing right here please never let your loneliness and discouragement be the justification you use in your mind to do what you know is wrong...You would be better alone before living that way...I will pray for you! ...
Very good information
Submitted by tfarmer on
Although I have been dealing with the issues associated with my wife's ADHD for a much shorter period than many here I have already seen the effects described above in myself. I was very interested in the use of Maslow' s hierarchy and last year described that to my wife almost exactly as you wrote it. Of course it had little, if any impact.
When faced with any problem I try to break it down to the simplest form and identify root cause. I have been banging my head against this ADHD stuff for a few years. I believe the "walls" you mention hide and protect an emotional child buried deep under the coping mechanisms. I believe the nature of the coping mechanisms and the behavior seen later I life are related to the age and environment at which those coping mechanisms first started to develop. These walls are not only used to hide the different nature of the ADHD mind from the world, but perhaps even more so to hide those differences from themselves.
When held up to Maslow's hierarchy this becomes even clearer. Who, but a child expects life to consist solely of the higher level functions while not comprehending, or be indifferent to the effort required to attain the more basic levels? A child simply assumes this as they focus on school and/or sports, etc. Apparently so do many of our spouses.
I posted some thoughts on this in much more detail a few days ago titled "Some New Insights". Take a look if you are interested. I would also welcome any comments or feedback you care to share. Keep in mind these are just my thoughts on what I have lived and observed over the course of a few years. You have been wrestling with this stuff much longer than me.
Jennalemon....
Submitted by c ur self on
(I had been living in a fantasy relationship that didn't exist. It existed in my hopes and in my imagination but it was not REALLY happening in real life.) When I married my wife 6 yrs. ago...I was 51 yrs. old, and had lived a life that seemed good, it was one that made sense to me, I felt it was in control...My late wife was passive, my two daughters were well behaved, sweet and smart...I had been working at the same place since I was 17 yrs. old and had moved into management at 40...I had truly been blessed...I brought this simple minded approach (it was all I knew) into my present marriage...work hard, be honest, faithful and loving...Use wisdom and common sense in decision making...But, when I started trying to be my wife's husband in this manner hummm....lol...It wasn't long until I had moved into this mind of fantasy you talk about here...I was absolutely in shock and I also was hard headed to the point I was going to MAKE HER SEE!!!!! So when being a good example didn't work...I would say things about being responsible, beat her down, not intentionally, but I was guilty none the less...and when that didn't change her...I got loud and angry. I was living in this fantasy mind that so many people fall into of thinking if I do and say the right things, I can get the response's and behaviors I think are acceptable...ouch!
Maslow's Heirarchy of Human Needs
Submitted by jennalemon on
I was editing what I wrote earlier and by mistake deleted the paragraph about Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs that has been referred to in the comments. Here is what I had said:
It seems to me that my dh puts his efforts, time, resources and attention on the top of the pyramid working down and I work from the ground up. Maslow asserts that the basic, ground level needs of humans be met first - those needs of housing, food, employment, security and physical health and safety. THEN a person is able to work on community, intimacy, social pursuits and pride of accomplishments - self actualization. Maslow says that until the basic needs are met you are not able to enjoy and thrive in the higher needs areas of creativity, fulfillment, recognition, self esteem. Dh starts at the top. He puts his focus, time and efforts into his own singular self acceptance, self esteem, confidence, self-respect. He seems to believe that if he acts sexy, he deserves sex. If he acts friendly, he deserves friends. He focuses on his ego.
That works when someone is a teenager. Children can be spontaneous, carefree and work on self actualization while their parents are providing their basic needs. But adults learn that these basic human needs are a priority. I expect to have sexual intimacy and pride after working together toward the higher human needs.
We both need and expect the sexual intimacy in the middle but this is where my anger comes from. He is just skipping the efforts toward basic needs. My anger is that he seems to be enjoying the top levels of getting his needs met alone - by himself - without the work. I am at the bottom by myself worrying about our lack of security in the home.
Dh goes straight to the "feel good" motivation of his own fantasy-based self-esteem without the future planning - very unsexy to a spouse.
Good points, Jennalemon. I
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Good points, Jennalemon. I had a light bulb moment a few years ago. I have been thinking, "What's wrong with me that I"m so bothered by the fact that my husband doesn't have a job and isn't looking for a job and our money is running out and there's a possibility we'll lose our house and won't be able to buy food and pay for medical care? This is just another indication that I'm incredibly anal, right?" And then the light bulb went on. These are basic needs (housing, food, health and safety). Even a famous guy, Maslow, said so! I was reacting normally to a threat that any normal person would perceive in the same way, as an attack on my existence.
we have to meet our own needs
Submitted by mariel on
i recognise a lot of the above. i can feel the anger and recognise it in myself very often. but in my calmer moments i realise that it's not helpful (to me let alone to hubby) to blame him for not meeting my basic needs. additionally all of the needs that maslow identified are just that: NEEDS. it's not that the lower ones are essential and the higher ones optional. they are all essential. yes we can go longer without love or self actualisation that without water bit they are actually essential. you know that people who know about emergency survival situations reckon that keeping up morale is as important in surviving as skills like knowing how to find water or navigate by the sun?
so i get by on the thought that it's up to me to meet my needs and i HAVE to make some time and space for my higher needs. it's not up to him to meet my needs and it's not up to me to meet any of his higher needs.
I think that many people
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I think that many people believe that one benefit of marriage is that one's spouse will help meet one's basic needs and vice versa. Otherwise, why bother getting married? My husband, like many of the spouses with ADHD (or other disabilities), seem to see this as one way. I meet his needs, he doesn't meet anyone's needs.
I've been trying to train
Submitted by redhead1017 on
I've been trying to train myself out of the resentment loop - the constant resentment for him being unemployed off and on for most of our marriage, resentment and bitterness for the rooms full of his collectibles, bitterness for the PayPal receipts I see every day for him adding to this collection, the time he spends curating this collection, the time he spends on the computer (most of the day), etc. I'm trying to look past that and realize that I have been focusing so hard on changing him (looking for good jobs, etc.) that I have utterly lost myself.
So baby steps to the elevator, right? Last week I decided I was no longer going to nag him about anything. I wasn't going to look for jobs for him anymore (that was a big one). I wasn't going to harbor resentment against him for sitting around on his butt all day while I worked.
I'm just tired of being the bad guy, you know? I figure ADHD is a mental disability. My DH is disabled. He doesn't want to get help and I can't force him to get help. But I certainly wouldn't treat someone who was disabled the way I've been treating him.
So it's not perfect, but I refuse to let my anger and bitterness get the best of me anymore. I don't want to be that person. If that means I've got someone who's going to be needing taken care of - and will most likely never contribute - than I need to face up to that with grace as best as I can.
The reason most of us don't
Submitted by Really123 on
The reason most of us don't go I think is very simple. We are simply too exhausted, tired and sad.