I have been reading a bit lately about ADHD and this idea of how it is hidden compared to a person with some more obvious disability. I find the comparison to a blind person to be particularly amusing and misplaced because ...
After running into a couple walls a blind person would no longer deny the problem.
In my experience that is simply untrue of an ADHD person. Instead, the ADHD person rationalizes their predicament by claiming they are not running into the same walls so that is somehow different.
After helping a blind person cross a busy street they will be grateful. The ADHD person will claim the helper is actually the source of the problem because they failed to stop all traffic for them.
After helping a blind person navigate a trail they will likely listen to your recommendation as to where to cross the stream. The ADHD person will argue your choice of crossing is wrong and jump in with both feet. In short order after rescuing them from the rapids, and dragging their waterlogged ass to safety the ADHD person will spin it in their own warped mind that they are some kind of hero for surviving their harrowing experience.
A blind person understands they must adapt themselves to the world around them. An ADHD person expects the world around them to adapt to them.
That is lunacy. Grow up.
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Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
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I have been reading a bit lately about ADHD and this idea of how it is hidden compared to a person with some more obvious disability. I find the comparison to a blind person to be particularly amusing and misplaced because ...
After running into a couple walls a blind person would no longer deny the problem.
In my experience that is simply untrue of an ADHD person. Instead, the ADHD person rationalizes their predicament by claiming they are not running into the same walls so that is somehow different.
After helping a blind person cross a busy street they will be grateful. The ADHD person will claim the helper is actually the source of the problem because they failed to stop all traffic for them.
After helping a blind person navigate a trail they will likely listen to your recommendation as to where to cross the stream. The ADHD person will argue your choice of crossing is wrong and jump in with both feet. In short order after rescuing them from the rapids, and dragging their waterlogged sorry ass to safety the ADHD person will spin it in their own warped mind that they are some kind of hero for surviving their harrowing experience.
A blind person understands they must adapt themselves to the world around them. An ADHD person expects the world around them to adapt to them.
>>>
Much of what you're describing is not ADHD. You're describing someone with a personality disorder. they may also have ADHD, but it's the PD that is causing the "you failed to stop traffic" and "the world must adapt to me" attitude.
People with personality disorders have an arrested development which is why we feel that they need to "grow up". Much of their crazy thinking is like they're stuck at 3, 5, or 10 years old.
I agree with what you say
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I agree with what you say about a hidden disability. I have lupus. It's not an obvious disease so most people, including my H, assume I'm okay all the time.
I agree that much of what is described here is not related to ADHD. The statistics quoted by, I think Melissa (sorry if I'm wrong, I've seen the same numbers in multiple places), point to a high rate of comorbidity with one or two additional "challenges." If my H "just" had ADHD, I think I could manage. I'm a very patient person. I doubt that is the case and lines have been crossed where I don't feel emotionally safe and secure in the marriage.
The conclusion that I've drawn from this forum, is that success in treating ADHD within a marriage seems largely dependent on there being only one dragon to slay, without additional PD issues. It seems like both PD and ADHD are difficult to work through, taking a great deal of time and effort. Oftentimes, it seems like the PD gets in the way of addressing the ADHD or vice versa. For example, did Melissa's husband have "only" ADHD or was it combined with other personality disorders like I see on this forum? If there's infidelity, was it "run of the mill" infidelity or a result of disordered thinking brought on by bi polar, for example? Is bad decision making the result of ADHD or because chronic depression also clouds judgment and affects decision making? How are multiple issues supposed to be addressed? Which comes first? How well does a marriage ultimately survive ADHD with comorbidity?
I wish I could find some studies outlining the issue of comorbidity and treatment/marital success.
I absolutely feel that my H has arrested development. He is 46 and on, oh, about a 17 year old level and not a mature 17 year old at that. I can't even remember the last time I got an answer to a significant relationship based question that did not sound like it came from a 3rd grader in the school yard. Example: Me: "I need to understand why you habitually lie to me and others. If I know you understand why, I can believe that you have a handle on it" H: "Are you telling me you never lie? Tell me, huh, you;ve lied... you can't say that because you've lied...." Me: "OMG, that is so not the point. Anyone over the age of two has lied, it's part of childhood development. Then you learn it's not a good thing, okay? We're talking about gratuitous lying for no reason." H" "You can't criticize me for lying if you've lied. (followed by further distractions)" Me: .... shut down, walk away, say wtfe I'll go talk to a 4th grader... lol
It seems intuitive that ADHD can affect decision making and self awareness, but if it's paired with depression or bi polar disorder or any "thing" - well, it's pretty awful. Chronic depression, you name it, all affect cognitive processing and decision making and impairs communication. I see such impaired decision making in my H and I'd say it's 50/50. 50% ADHD and 50% undetermined. Depression? Bi polar? PTSD? Part of the LD he was diagnosed with as a child? I don't know. The internet is a dangerous place. You can make a diagnosis out of anything.
And it all comes with a "you must accept me as I am, this is who I am, and how would you expect me to change", "leave it or lump it" kind of attitude.
I am going to digress and say that I think that it is possible for there to be expectations in a marriage and for a marriage to contain both conditional and unconditional love. Unconditional love, whether it's a husband or child, usually presupposes some baseline of behavior. Of course I have expectations in a marriage. I expect my partner to behavior honorably and with integrity and to consider his wife and family a priority. I expect that my H, to the best of his ability, seek to help, not harm. I expect my H to work with me, not against me and provide full, complete and truthful information. I can love him unconditionally, on those conditions. The rest I can accept. I guess that's called straddling the fence?
Anyway, I'm signing off. I'll check back in a year and see how everyone has progressed. I've spent over a year on education and effort. I will now devote the time elsewhere.
Amen, Vabeachgal
Submitted by Zapp10 on
you said it well....for me.
I'm grateful to you for your
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
I'm grateful to you for your contributions, Vabeachgirl. All best wishes for the season and for 2017.
Now
Thanks for the validation VAbeachgal
Submitted by adhd32 on
I deal with my H's arrested development and his pining for bygone years annoyed at all who put any demand on him. He spends time with friends who are without children and assumes they have the perfect life because, in his mind, family demands are the cause of his unhappiness. Regardless of the origin, and whether or not something else is going on I have stopped sacrificing myself to keep the peace or bail him out of problems of his own doing. He is the ADD man in the afore mentioned metaphor and I have had enough co-dependently bailing him out for the sake of our family and feeling somehow responsible for the outcomes. H likes to say "I am what I am" so he doesn't have to apologize or temper his behavior to societal standards.
I am who I am too and I will no longer accept a$$hole behaviors. I came to this forum sometime this past summer and since then I have learned to control my responses and accept some behaviors but I also learned that I have been sacrificing ME in order to maintain a home atmosphere where my children were able to grow. My heart is nearly broken now knowing...knowing that he will not change... nor does he really want to try to change. After all, he is who he is and we are supposed to accept him, as is. The reasons he is this way no longer matter to me.
I have enjoyed your thoughtful, concise, pointed contributions. I see a lot of myself in them. I am working on my own happiness,educating myself and figuring out how to move on. While some posts on here have been helpful to me in seeing things more clearly, I tend to react to the negative side and they make me sad. I understand the "you do you" concept of improving oneself to improve a relationship but without a sustained joint effort improvement can never really get off the ground. I now accept that sustained effort will never come from my H because it is uncomfortable and requires honesty. Best to not deal with things and then take them out on everyone around you. So whatever else is going on is not going to be addressed and 30+ years of rowing the boat with one oar have drained me dry.
Thank you for helping me feel less alone in this quagmire. I wish you health and happiness in the new year.
VaB Or For Anyone Else Here
Submitted by kellyj on
We're talking about gratuitous lying for no reason. I might substitute the word "Pathological" in place of gratuitous here? And I might add in....there is always a reason for everything I have found? You may not know what that reason is....but there is a reason for sure?
A habit of lying to avoid consequences is just plain old avoiding responsibility or the fallout ie: the consequences if you were to tell the truth? That is a conscious form of lying for a purpose....with intention? This is an honest lie in that that person knows they did.....so when put into a Conner or a position of having to tell the truth....they could cop to it and admit it and say they did....hypothetically speaking? They know they lied and they are aware of it...for what ever they did they are trying to cover for? As you put it....
A pathology as put...is a pattern of lying in a consistent way repeatedly is more due to some subconscious type lying without any awareness of it and without an intention that the person even is aware of themselves ie: Denial or part of a defense mechanism perhaps? If you asked a person is they lied under this condition....they would say no...which would be a lie to answer if they lied and said they didn't? The second lie....to say they didn't lie in the first place.....they would believed is true since....they weren't even aware that they lied....since they believed they didn't which if you didn't think you lied....then you would believe that you didn't?
The liar's paradox.
Example: Me: "I need to understand why you habitually lie to me and others. If I know you understand why, I can believe that you have a handle on it" You just asked a question...that he has no answer for since he is not aware or unsure of what you are talking about or why you are even asking him....that's the problem? Of course you lie and he lies too...in the honest lie example I gave....with full awareness of it that is? You are basically asking him to admit...that he is wrong and what comes next is so predictable?
Side note: Just the other day....I lied to my wife because I wanted to avoid an issue and I really didn't want to get into it with her at the time? Later....she figured out I was lying and she said "Are you lying?" And I said "Yes" LOL That's a good example...but also told her why I lied after I did just as I said it with you?
"Are you telling me you never lie? Tell me, huh, you've lied... you can't say that because you've lied...." ( avoiding the question by answering it with another question ...aka double talking )
Me: "OMG, that is so not the point. Anyone over the age of two has lied, it's part of childhood development. Then you learn it's not a good thing, okay? We're talking about gratuitous lying for no reason." Just my two bits here as a comment...."first mistake. You tried to use logic or reason as way to argue your point? Futile!!! LOL
H" "You can't criticize me for lying if you've lied. (followed by further distractions)"
Really? In what rule book or alternative Universe does it say that? Sure I can!!! Who says? YOU????? LOL ( just a little humor....plus I never get to actually say it. LOL )
Me: .... shut down, walk away, say wife I'll go talk to a 4th grader... lol
Va....this is denial....as in....denial of the truth? At face value...literally? As I already commented to Tfarmer....but just saying it differently? Defense mechanisms serve a purpose of function in protecting that person from hearing the truth or what they do not want to hear? To hear the truth for what ever reason...is too painful to bear?
This is lying without intention....and without any awareness of it since it's subconscious and part of the pathology or pattern within the denial itself? It's a defense mechanism and when it gets activated...the person has no idea that what they just said was a lie....with no intention or awareness of it? It is a symptom only.....but it doesn't give you the reason for it ie: the diagnosis or the underlying cause?
The liars paradox: "Everything I say is a lie....and I'm lying right now." LOL Circular reasoning loop!!! No win situation....don't even try and argue with it!!! Futile is the operant word on that one for what it's worth? It's all denial.
I think it's safe to say....that as far as ADHD goes....you can the first type ( like anyone else ) without the first on depending on "in denial".....or ........."Not" but that is not the only diagnosis you could find it in either? Again...it's just a symptom of something else with no way to really now for sure unless by a doctor of some kind who knows how to tell?
When I was a kid....I lied all the time to get away with stuff...but as I am saying this....I knew it at the time and can still remember the times I did? The latter I might have done too at times.....but there is no way for me to know but I'm sure I did...to some degree or another at times? And if I am still unaware of things I do...then I will probably will lie by accident or unawareness...but that is not patholigical...since...I have no reason to lie and I don't have any reason to be defensive or to protect myself from thinking that if I lie or have lied even with my wife in that example....that it makes me a horrible person. Everyone lies from time to time....and you probably do to and don't even realize it.....but....it still not this type of lying and that is really the one that is the problem most of all I think?
Denial of the truth vs not wanting to take reasonability and covering your butt....is a horse of a different color?
J
From the Horses Mouth
Submitted by kellyj on
I've speculated or intuited...either way....that my wife thinks and believes "If I can't do it.....then you can't do it".....and low and behold, the answer was given to me today just moments ago?
I'll leave the story line out in how it got here....but these words came out of my wife's mouth for the first time ever when she accused me of speculating? I said "speculating? You mean guessing?""
And she said "yes...guessing?"
And I said " well there is such a thing as deductive reasoning you know?" And with a little back and forth about this I explained what deductive reasoning is in which she immediately grabbed her phone and looked it up herself ( checking me to see if I was right?)
And within the definition.....the word "logic" appeared.
And she ignored the word logic...and continued on to tell me that this sounded like speculating since...you couldn't ge the answer and you still don't know the answer?
And I said...."well....Einstein's theory of relativity....is just a theory because it can't be proved absolutely...but if something is 90% right...does that mean it's wrong?
And she said "Do you think I don't know what a theory is? Remember your audience....and remember who you are talking too?"
And I said "Okay then...if you understand what a theory is ...and sorry,I didn't mean to insinuate ( disingenuously said on my part to avoid conflict which was actually a lie ).....but, the same thing applies to what I'm saying...that deductive reasoning like a detective uses...is getting as close as you can to the answer...without being proven absolutely? So what I am deducting...using the same logic as the definition says....that 80 ot 90% as proven fact.. leaves only 10 -20% as unproven... which mean that I'm wrong does it?" ( logically speaking? )
And she said "Well I believe....you can't do that...since I can't do that...so I don't think you are right?"
In reality......logic and reason.....reigns supreme!!!!! And validation is a wonderful thing :)
Merry Christmas everyone!
J
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Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
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I agree that much of what is described here is not related to ADHD. The statistics quoted by, I think Melissa (sorry if I'm wrong, I've seen the same numbers in multiple places), point to a high rate of comorbidity with one or two additional "challenges." If my H "just" had ADHD, I think I could manage. I'm a very patient person. I doubt that is the case and lines have been crossed where I don't feel emotionally safe and secure in the marriage.
The conclusion that I've drawn from this forum, is that success in treating ADHD within a marriage seems largely dependent on there being only one dragon to slay, without additional PD issues. It seems like both PD and ADHD are difficult to work through, taking a great deal of time and effort. Oftentimes, it seems like the PD gets in the way of addressing the ADHD or vice versa. For example, did Melissa's husband have "only" ADHD or was it combined with other personality disorders like I see on this forum? If there's infidelity, was it "run of the mill" infidelity or a result of disordered thinking brought on by bi polar, for example? Is bad decision making the result of ADHD or because chronic depression also clouds judgment and affects decision making? How are multiple issues supposed to be addressed? Which comes first? How well does a marriage ultimately survive ADHD with comorbidity? >>>>
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Surviving ADHD with comorbidity of a personality disorder is almost impossible. If the marriage continues, it's probably only because the Non-spouse can't get away for a variety of reasons. I can't get away because of threats and financial reasons.
I have a much younger friend who can't get away because she knows that her young kids would have to split time with her H and that would be too risky for them (for a variety of reasons). Having the kids under her roof 24/7 is a way that she can make sure that their needs are attended to. Her husband wouldn't let them starve, but he also wouldn't "parent" them in a healthy way. She has seen how poorly he cares for them when she's gone for a day or so. I totally understand that because my H loved our kids, but parented them terribly (too harsh sometimes, neglectful often). I'd come home from being away for several hours to find out that he had forgotten to give them lunch, or he had forgotten to put the toddler down for his nap (and then H would complain that they were cranky!!!). I'd come home to find that the kids had gotten into various things, while H was unaware while watching TV. When he did feed them, it was always things that I had pre-prepared. If it was left up to him, he would have just served them whatever was easiest for him, no matter how unhealthy.
ADHD paired with a PD is an impossible combo. You've got the worst of all worlds...a perfect storm. Plus, you get blamed for everything, which is just the icing on the cake. Ugh!
Perhaps.
Submitted by tfarmer on
Perhaps. And maybe I am just using more words here to say the same thing. But a disorder has an involuntary component, I don't think that is the case with my wife. I think these are defense mechanisms she created long ago, maybe even in early elementary school, to protect her fragile self esteem. She refuses to see reality in a situation if it means she has screwed up again and she refuses to face that.
If you read posts from ADHD people,many of them will say something about how well they did in school, sports, etc. as some kind of statement of competence. "I am not stupid because I did well in school", for example is something I have seen frequently. That is reinforcement for them, not a message to the reader
So these defense mechanisms are set up at a young age to allow them to be successful in school and/or sports ... both highly structured and finite endeavors.
These same mechanisms fail, and become toxic later in life particularly in the context of a long term relationship. The situation is exacerbated by a partner that sees, and is impacted by attitudes, communication, and behaviors that are used to protect her and served her well in the past.
Melissa wrote an article in Psychology Today a few years ago. One thing she said was it is easy for the ADHD person to look at the demands imposed by a partner and adult relationships and claim something like " I have had ADHD my entire life and done just fine". It is perhaps the definition of "done just fine" that becomes the trip wire. We have been together nine years but she was only diagnosed 4 years ago. Without going into a lot of detail I will just say that when we met she was not "just fine*. Her life was a complete wreck from my perspective. To this day she does not want to see that.
This brings me back to the defense mechanisms. Without structure, direction, and a finite conclusion ... a blank sheet of paper so to speak, she flails around like a fish out of water but gets angry and defensive about it and does not want to see herself flopping around in the weeds.
My thought is the ADHD person needs to tear down those defense mechanisms and rebuild them, if needed, to serve a mature woman with a career and in a long teem relationship. Without first admitting they have not done " just fine", or actually seeing themselves flop around in the weeds I see little hope for any meaningful improvement.
In the same article Melissa said it is also easy for the non ADHD person to lay the blame for all the problems at the feet of the ADHD partner. That is a pit I have fallen into many times and try to avoid. I will say that many negative things do start with unmanaged symptoms and it is excruciatingly difficult at times to not fall into symptom - response - response mode.
In the end she is only deceiving herself. I simply do not understand that.
Well Put
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I also hear the "I was just fine" thing. He wasn't. He was a hot mess. Hard worker, but a personal mess. Some of the personal mess was age appropriate for time and place, but not appropriate to continue unabated into middle age.
Not surprisingly, he wants to abdicate responsibility and revert back to his old "just fine" self of almost 20 years ago. No pressure from wife and kids. No "demands." Regression? Yes indeed. He plans to move in with a friend and go to work (hyperfocus for him), drink beer and self medicate with diet pills and sleep aids and screw around and just forget that he laid waste to someone else's life. There are some things, emotional and practical, that I will never recover from. The financial mess he made will compromise my lifestyle for years to come.
I have spent the last 18 months taking responsibility for my part in this mess and working to alleviate the symptom-response-response syndrome. I've stepped back and objectively viewed his behavior and responses. I've decided that some is ADHD and some is definitely not. In fact, I'd say he has "ADHD Lite". Have I managed my responses perfectly? Absolutely not. Have I worked hard at it? Absolutely. Have I curbed much of my anger this past year? Yes. Could I do more? Maybe. I don't see what else I can do without betraying myself and compromising needs and core values, if that makes sense? It's a one sided effort. Unconditional acceptance is okay if it doesn't leave an icky feeling in the pit of your stomach - if you're not agreeing to accept things that deep down you still find unacceptable - if it doesn't mean you're sucking up avoidable disappointments. I can unconditionally accept and love everything about my husband, but is it is still settling for less than reasonable? Less than an adult partner? Bottom line is I don't see that H is able to connect his actions with effects on others. Is that from a lifetime of poor coping mechanisms? Sure. Is there any inkling that anything will be done to develop better coping skills? Nope.
Thanks for your well considered answer.
Vabeach...there are
Submitted by Zapp10 on
so many here who have put into words what I can't..and you are one of them. Just wanted you to know that I so appreciate what you have contributed concerning your journey. A very heartfelt thank you....from me to you.
The Moment of Truth........Tfarmer
Submitted by kellyj on
You are spot on tfarmer. "I am not stupid because I did well in school", for example is something I have seen frequently. That is reinforcement for them, not a message to the reader."
As I have come to learn this about myself...that is a rationalization...but part of it is true..and part of it is not true and that's the problem. That kernal of truth that is true....makes the entire statement true which goes hand in hand with OCD behaviors as well....as I have come to learn in therapy. And you are right on the money....there is a component of a disorder that cannot be helped...and there is a component of "learned behaviors"....within those defense mechanisms themselves as you said. Spot on.
My therapist ( who I think is great ) has his own particular way of not saying it....but saying it at the same time that I now how not only become familiar with....but I am right with him now and almost never miss a beat anymore with him in deciphering what he says? This actually has become a little problematic since...he uses me as a "scape goat" with my blessing since he and I are on the same page together and I know what he is doing and why? The reason why is because he knows better in a sense to say it directly but more to the point of making you figure out on your own? The down side is the my wife will interpret this as....it's you....no her still and she misses what he is saying ( to her about her ) and thinks it's me? This just means I can't argue with her or try and correct her when she misinterprets this to being said for my benefit instead of hers?
But when I go see hin alone...there is no back door any more and I can talk openly about myself and my wife and not get defensive which is more to the point? Why can I do this and not my wife?
Here's why " I have had ADHD my entire life and done just fine". It is perhaps the definition of "done just fine" that becomes the trip wire." That trip wire or point of reckoning ( the moment of truth) ..is the difference between being in denial....or not being in denial right there I think? At least for me....when came to face this enough to the point where I could say...."I didn't do as well as I thought I did...and I was a lot worse than I remember it to be?" Again....this is a half truth and so is the other statement.....half of the truth? So you got the positive half...and the negative half..and the positive half....you do see and that's all you see? The negative half...goes into hiding until you can face it admit that negative half...which is actually when you can let all the those negative emotions go and stop being defensive anymore? As soon as you can face the fact....that you were both at the same time.....the story of your past...comes together and now becomes complete. And when you can step up to plate...and do that.....your world changes for the better and there is no going back.
And in what I was saying about my T....just recently I was talking about this intense need to lash out....or as I have come to learn....."chastize" you.....is really part of that defensive wall of all these mechanisms getting activated...so that person will be allowed not to see it as self protection from having a cataclysm of your self esteem? But in that lingo as I was describing...as he put it to me when asked "For some...they have a compulsive need to do this" since....the reason I was asking was this wasn't something I had the same compulsive need to do for what ever reason? It is just a symptom and he has basically echoed the same thing to me as well. Defense mechanisms. And it can really bad depending on which ones you are talking about since there are like ( 9 or 10 on the list ) and it takes some doing to learn them yourself? I know they are there at times or can feel the pull...but those are blips or old habits and I am really not all that defensive any more but still can have my moments to watch out for.
But this need to "hit back"....really is childish looking and the behavior by itself....is pretty obviously bad and hard to say "I didn't just do that" which is how I am seeing my wife now? She does know she does it....but she is not willing to admit or say so out loud but it's usually after she did it....not always which is just part of it? Having to admit....or say so out loud...you'd think, would be like being killed...so I have no real reason for her to actually say it? More importantly...that she see it...and with that...comes that "hitting back part." You hurt me....I hurt you. That seems to be...the unspoken rule and that is the compulsive need he was talking about and it come directly from this "persecutor" or "persecution" issue that gets manifested that way from the low self worth by itself?
It is where my own passive aggressive behavior came from but without the instant reactivity problem....mine was usually done in a more deliberate and though through way and usually....very creatively!! I use to Punk people with practical jokes which were sometimes funny and sometimes not but mostly...they were more indirectly related to "people in general " when the opportunity arose...and not specifically "aimed" at anyone in particular? But it is the same thing but without doing it....on the spot right back in a tit for tat kind of way? That's what seems so different with my wife because she will do it....instantly.....even if she smells it....which just seems to me...the level of insecurity and self loathing she feels about herself. To the point ( again last night ) if I even ask her a simple question like "have you seen the remote?"...which in this situation....she had it a moment ago and I was just looking for it but she had walked out of the room....it wasn't an accusation? BAM "You................................................." Right on schedule....I said "did you"?....in a sentence and suddenly I'm accusing her of something just from a simple question since I couldn't fine it and I was in the process of looking for it? What's interesting just to point out here....is that what comes out at these moments that is right on schedule....is her saying "YOU"......then accusing you of doing something because as she heard it....I was accusing her of something by simply asking? She does that where she will finish my sentence before even say what I was going to say....but what she fills in is the response to what...she thinks she about to hear even before I said it which is always wrong since what she thinks she is about to hear...is me saying something that she did wrong and fills in the blanks by moving it in a different direction entirely which usually comes right back at you in your face? For me personally....I get let these go pretty easily even if they are annoying and not that big a deal? It's just reflective reacting to perceived or starting to hear something that has the word "YOU" in it? I've learned to reword things without the you....but it makes it difficult to do when sometimes...you have to? Sometimes the question involves her in a way there is no way to ask without including her in it? Like you....I have learned just to steer clear as much as possible and not react even like that moment when I was asking a simple innocuous questions that one might ask in the same situation? I think how she interpreted it that as hearing it said...."did you do something with the remote....what did you do with it? You did something with the remote...and know I can't find it? " Instead of...."have you seen the remote? " Which is all I asked?
I have to say...these little things are not worth even mentioning and while annoying....I actually don't take them personally and I do save saying things...in places where it really matters. When things start hurling through space and landing on my head and I didn't say anything at all......that's the time to draw the line....since i didn't initiate that in any way shape or form plus....the demand itself from which it comes...is beyond unreasonable? If you can't just live and do things in a more acceptable way....an never touch or move anything or anything being a little crooked....in respect to my wife now and actually what I have said ( straight up ) "If I were to do what you do...and try and follow your lead in order to maintain that level of perfection...I would have to adopt your obsession myself...and I'm sorry I'm not going to do that?" That is the line in the sand where you would actually be doing harm to yourself in order to apiece the defensive Gods or those voices in there talking....and that's an easy way for me to determine when...and when not to right there? When I am being asked to do something...that would be bad for me...in order to please her comfort zone within what is obsessive and actually a compulsion....I am not doing it for her....I am doing it for her compulsion and that's that easy to separate and choose which times to point this out to her?
And as my T himself as said...."these compulsions are designed...to relieve anxiety but only in the moment? Later in a short while....that person will need to do it again since the compulsion is all about protection in the moment...but it has no long lasting effect."
Which is an easy way to determine and "Impulsive random act" isolated from anything else...to one that keeps repeating itself...again and again and again? That would be the definition of a compulsion whether it's a gambling, porn, self medicating or what ever including any odd OCD behaviors or rituals.....would all fall under the heading of a compulsive behavior....and less to do with "impulse" or random acts or moments of weakness? Random ADHD symptoms or implausible actions...are not designed to protect or defend...they are just your desires....running amok some times and that is all about ADHD with for no other reason? I think the ADHD symptoms themselves...are much easier to deal with than these compulsive habits or behaviors which are actually there to serve a function?
Impulsiveness doesn't serve anything? It's just a brake failure or having really poor brakes! LOL
J
Right on, overwhelmed
Submitted by Zapp10 on
TOTALLY agree with you in your summation. The parallel of another disorder with adhd is far more common than perhaps we want to see? Which comes first...the chicken or the egg? Which ONE is really causing DEEP RELATIONAL DAILY DIFFICULTY that leaves a person NUMB?
It wasn't until I took the lesser issues of adhd out of the picture(always late, doesn't finish projects, half hears what is said etc)....and began to look at the EMOTION side of it that I began to see a bigger issue than adhd.
Interesting.....that is was my spouses reaction to addressing issues of adhd that helped me to search for something MORE. The less I engaged and stood back and observed him in situations I saw "something" that I felt was not explained by adhd. In the end.....I wish the only problem WAS adhd. Sadly it is not and that is only because, while he does see this issue, once again he is going to try to "heal himself".by " white knuckling" his way THROUGH it.
In the meantime.....I am mourning the loss of the marriage. There is not a glimmer of hope in me. I will not "pretend" what isn't there. I am done with not being honest with myself. Do I want my H to be happy? ABSOLUTELY! I want me to be happy too........and I am done ANALYZING the CRAP out of what it means to be HAPPY in a marriage. I am also done analyzing love. I know it when I see it, feel it,hear it, touch it. Enough!!!
My H thrives in the gray area of everything ....maybe...maybe not. Could be.....could be not. Should be...should be not. Good enough......for who it's for. Someday, any day, not today.....
He will be fine in the world he is determined to live in.....he doesn't need me throwing a monkey wrench into it......which is what has happened our entire marriage.