What is it called when trite, seemingly small,but harmful/hurtful things happen over and over until they become normal? I''m sure there is a word for that. I am trying to make myself aware of why I am so angry and resentful when I don't have the words to explain...some things seem so trivial but added up over decades they have eroded my well-being.
Like this that just happened:
H and I have been fixing up the laundry room...each conributing. It has been almost done now for 3 weeks....but there is a big machine in there..some kind of hydraulic pressure pump that he says he needs to be able to pound in a few nails at the bottom wood trim along the bottom edge of the wall. He says he can't just pound the nails into the small trim...he needs this 4'x2'x1' hydraulic machine "to do the job right". I think he doesn't know what he is doing. Anyway, that machine is in the middle of the room for 3 weeks.
I asked him if I could move it out of the room while I did a lot of wash I need for the weekend....he promised me it would have been done a month ago and I have worked "around" the machine and tools for that time. Now, instead of answering my question by saying, "Ooops, sorry hun. Let me get that for you in about an hour when I can get to it" he says sarcasticaly "What's the matter with you? You can't stand a little pump in your way now?" I used to take that to heart and ponder if I was nagging. For decades, I have been trying to understand and change MY ways so that I could be a good and cooperative wife so his tender ego would be supported. Guess what? I just heard an ex wife-abuser on NPR talk about how he would only abuse his spouse(s) when he knew that he "could" get away with it with them - that they would LET him. I am now realizing, while I have not been physically abused, that H has been verbally beating me up with many, many, thousands of these seemingly inconsequential little phrases that turned around a simple cooperative reaquest into a delving into "What's got you so pissed off THIS time?" response.
You know what? I am done with that. H has used up ALL of his second chances. He is not getting away with ANYTHING anymore. ....I refuse to "feel bad" that we don't get along. I am willing to accept that we don't get along. I am willing to accept that the part I played in our difficulties is that I was "nice" and tried to be cooperative.
For me, it is all about accepting what is.
It really isn' a matter of
Submitted by Libby on
It really isn' a matter of "we don't get along" as much as "he doesn't get along"
If you have the physical strength to move his items move them yourself. That is what I do rather than get into a useless spat with him.
Aint that the truth.
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
A while back I heard someone say that part of a relationship is facing reality together and moving forward in a solution oriented manner. That really resonated with me. If one person in the relationship is not facing reality and/or not moving forward in that manner then there is no getting along. Getting along requires honesty, cooperation and teamwork.
Moving his things yourself.
Submitted by Shell10 on
Enabling. I'd be draping that pump with his dirty laundry.
I see it as taking care of my
Submitted by Libby on
I see it as taking care of my own need for order in my home.
Sounds like a portable air compressor to run a nail gun....
Submitted by c ur self on
Being desensitized to wrong behaviors because we watch to much tv and movies is bad...But, I'm not sure there is a word for it, when it's the one person who has promised to love us for a life time...
c
Paper cuts
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
Paper cuts are small wounds and seemingly insignificant, but if you get a paper cut everyday for years they do a tremendous amount of damage. Death by 1,000 paper cuts.
I agree
Submitted by GoingCrazyADHDx2 on
Death by papercuts is real and legitimate. Add actual abuse (physical, mental, verbal) and you have bullets holes and papercuts to mend... Seems impossible when the papercuts keep happening.
Your house too
Submitted by adhd32 on
H does the same thing and I think it is some control issue. I would wait and wait for the promised thing that doesn't happen. I start moving things and doing what I can myself and his response is always "what, you couldn't wait?" Actually no, I couldn't. I've waited long enough and this is MY HOUSE TOO! If the promised chore is not inconveniencing him it would just sit and sit. I do the same with his crap when it starts migrating, I pack it up and throw it on his desk...It's my house too and I will not lower my standards and allow my home to become a big hoard. Not sorry and no apologies for wanting a clean well maintained home.
adhd32...I love this...
Submitted by c ur self on
I love your attitude about the piles of hoarded up junk in the way....I love it because it creates accountability to the highest level you can force it, without doing something wrong yourself....After we ask ourselves all the right questions about this dynamic, we will see how right you are.....
What kind of person leaves junk and trip hazards laying around with no thought of others??
What kind of person will instantly say, I will move it, when ask to...But takes no responsibility to do it, or even remind themselves of their promise ( written or electronic reminders)??
What kind of person says they will move it tomorrow, and then after you work around it a week before you finally move it, will still show anger and lash out "couldn't you wait!" ??
It's an easy answer....A selfish victim, who thinks they should be afforded concessions, no matter the cost to others.....So bravo!
c
Reply to C ur Self
Submitted by SweetandSour on
Respectfully, since I share your experience and frustration with these behaviors, but to remind you of what we've learned about ADHD. "A selfish victim, who thinks they should be afforded concessions, no matter the cost to others..." is an easy answer, but not necessarily the correct one. The person who leaves junk lying around and trip hazards, etc is a person who actually does not SEE those things because they only see what is important to them in that moment (Remember - only now exists? There is no past or future? Inability to predict consequences? Hundreds of thoughts flitting in and out vying for their attention?). It isn't fathomable to some of the rest of us, but I believe it to be true - they just do not see those things. The promises to do things and not doing them (yes - crazy making!). Again, not deliberate acts of aggression - rather, executive functioning disability, lack of memory, self-focus, DISTRACTIBILITY. The distractibility is ADD - it is a disorder - not a moral failure. Then the anger... yes, unfair, but I believe a lot of times it's defensiveness, because they know they screwed up AGAIN and the best defense is a good offense, or the anger is covering for their own shame. Dealing with ADHD in a partner is next to impossible at times and we "non" partners have valid issues with it, but read and listen to those with ADHD or even just look at the results in their lives and you see that it harms and handicaps the people who have it, and they can't stop it even for their own sake, let alone for ours.
I understand your objections
Submitted by Brindle on
I understand your objections to blanket statements about ADHD that put ADHDers in a perpetually negative light. But it can’t also be that they never act in rude or selfish ways on purpose. Having ADHD doesn’t mean you’re aren’t capable of a lack of character. It just means that those rude and purposefully selfish moments are also jumbled up with moments that are unintentional and yet look the same. And when a person tells a lie to cover their shame - that’s still wrong. It doesn’t make it ok, even if we understand why. It can give us compassion for them and help us to deal with them in a less angry way - but it is still lying in an adult who knows the truth from a lie and who is just embarrassed.
And some of us are married to flat-out hypocrites. Like when my husband yells at the kids who leave things lying around, saying how they don’t care about anyone else - yet he does it. So he has ADHD, leaves things around, and that’s ok? But everyone else is a selfish person? No, it can’t be like that. ADHD makes things hard but it doesn’t make them poor victim angels who can’t help themselves.
I know that if my husband was working hard on himself, I would still get frustrated with the things he can’t help. But knowing he was trying would go a lonnnnng way. For him to not try and then yell at others for the same stuff? Not ok.
I think you missed my point Sweetandsour
Submitted by c ur self on
Thanks for the science lesson on the effects of a fast mind...You make many great points! (which most who post on this site experience first hand) But if you go back and look at my reply to adhd32, I never mentioned adhd....The difference in a responsible adult who may or may not live w/ the effects of add/adhd....And a victim minded adult seeking concessions, no matter the cost to others, will always be clearly seen in their attitude's...
Responsible people take ownership....Victims blame.....Attitude is everything....
c
Yes. Good points both of you
Submitted by SweetandSour on
Yes. Good points both of you. I didn't mean to lecture - just to remind you that there are characteristics of the disorder that lead to people behaving in ways that look like they're being jerks, but they don't mean to be. Unfortunately, I think some of us on here have partners who have the most severe degree of ADHD and many undesirable personality traits too!
“Unfortunately, I think some
Submitted by Brindle on
“Unfortunately, I think some of us on here have partners who have the most severe degree of ADHD and many undesirable personality traits too!” -SweetandSour
I think you are right.
Sweet and Sour
Submitted by phatmama on
Thank you. I was really uncomfortable with the post you addressed as well. My husband started painting the basement wall with moisture sealer FIVE YEARS AGO. To this day, there is a big white streak down the middle exactly where he ran out of sealer. I guess at this point it is our little memorial to lost mojo or a shrine to the ADHD god, whatever floats your boat. He will walk past it and have no concept that it is even there, while I seethe with rage that I allowed him to begin this project in the first place. His sister told me years ago to when he was talking about building a house, to never under any circumstances agree to build a home with him or even buy another fixer-upper ( I have horror stories that would make the hair of "normal" people stand on end. ) In general, I have taken that advice to heart but there are times he sneaks things in on me before I can distract him and this is the result-- a pile that will be unfinished on the day he dies. When I say "distract him", I mean that I am hypervigilant to any conversation he starts about wanting to fix, repair, or improve anything in our home. When he starts talking that smack, I sweetly and innocently distract and divert. Example: " I really need to reinforce the basement walls. They're caving in. I need to dig up the front yard and knock holes in the basement wall and put some rebar in there for support and then fill it with concrete. " Oh, HELL no!!!!!! So what I say instead is " Well, okay, but you know I have been dying to enclose the back porch and build a roof over it since we moved in. We aren't starting anything until that's done." End of discussion. Game, set, match. He does not want to do the porch, and being ADHD and only motivated by what he wants to do and is fascinated by in the moment, will never ever ever start working on the porch I want. As long as I can keep throwing the porch in there, I should be safe. God knows what I will do if he actually starts the porch, because all Hell would break loose if he ever started any project in our home again, to be honest. He finishes almost nothing and leaves things worse than they were when we started. Our 20 year old daughter said to me a few months ago, "Mom, this place looks worse than it did when we moved in. Isn't it supposed to work the other way?" Truer words were never spoken. The question is why any functioning adult would trash their home in this manner? It makes no sense and that's the point. Notice I said "functioning adult". With an executive function disorder, perception of time, detail, order, and awareness are profoundly altered. I know my husband is not innately selfish, he is actually very kind, but his behavior appears very selfish. I do take issue with assigning an intentional label to behavior that is classic disability, though. This is straight-up what having ADHD looks like, people. It makes no sense and is a pain in the butt, but I don't think for one second it is on purpose. That would just be creepy if it was.
Phatmama
Submitted by SweetandSour on
Thankyou for your support of what I was trying to say. I have to tell you I actually laughed out loud reading about your "I need the porch fixed first" strategy and then when you said "God knows what I'll do" if he starts on the porch. I'm so glad you have a sense of humor about things and I think you're very clever. Responding to this and other posts of yours that are related, I have a similar experience of having a partner who is very skilled and competent at making and fixing things. You referred to sometimes brilliant and sometimes totally incompetent - that is so true. The way he thinks amazes me - I am very direct and logical - he is so intuitive - for him, if he just waits awhile solutions do reveal themselves, but they don't come "on demand" I guess, so if something's broken and I need it fixed, it can be frustrating... Going around them is necessary from a practical point of view for getting things done - either at all or in a timely fashion. I contract out too and then I hear about all the ways whoever did it messed it up and about how he could do it so much cheaper, but I just agree and move on. I saw my mom become completely stuck in a run-down house with all kinds of mess because she deferred to my dad who didn't want anything done by anyone because he could do it better, but the reality was, he didn't and was never going to and never did (even though they had the money to hire someone). My dad didn't have ADHD, but same unrealistic thinking and same not-a-team-player. I'm not financially dependent on my partner and though I was raised in that atmosphere of all of us having to do what Dad wanted (expert in every field), I saw where that eventually led and I'm not going there!
Reply/Sweet and Sour
Submitted by phatmama on
Thank you so much. I am happy you enjoy my sense of humor, as it is truly my saving grace throughout the trials and tribulations of life in our home. As far as getting things done in the house, this is something I did not see coming at all until we married and bought our first home, a fixer-upper. That was an awakening I wouldn't wish on anyone. The first time I contracted someone out (to put the linoleum on our kitchen floor), I thought it would end our marriage. He was livid and raged that he could have done that and I should have waited, blah blah blah. I had been walking on subflooring for about six months, young kids, food stains/spill--totally gross, but I "should have waited" because he was "going to do it". After that, it took me many years to contract anything out again, but now I'm on a roll! Working through my own codependency issues ("the sky is falling if someone I love is mad at me"--total BS) has been a big change in our marriage. I was very much like you describe your mom for many years, but as that has changed and I have become much more willing to incur a loud, ugly dispute with the understanding that this does not mean we are getting divorced. A fight is a fight, not a dealbreaker. Unlike you, though, I was raised in a home that my Dad literally build totally alone from the ground up over a summer. He bought the land and went there every day to build. He did every single thing except the masonry for the fireplace. I grew up not knowing that not every Dad could build a house from the ground up and that it is actually a fairly rare attribute--lol. Over the years, he has continued to maintain and improve the property so that now it is like a little paradise on earth. He put two swimming docks on the pond, one of them with a picnic table bolted down and a gas grill. There is a fountain in the middle of the pond that keeps it aerated, hammocks, swings benches. There is a finished front porch that looks out over the fields with nice cushy furniture and a covered deck on back with a table, another gas grill, chairs, a bench. He has a very nice fire pit with chairs all around and a neatly stacked pile of firewood nearby. He has remodeled the kitchen, master bath, put new carpet throughout the home multiple times, kept the walls freshly painted, installed nice cabinetry throughout the garage, put in a geothermal system for affordable climate control. The list goes on and on. HIs property is amazing and he never stops. So this is my template for "normal" and then I marry the guy who could do all that and more, but can't even finish sealing the basement wall in five years. I definitely married the guy like my Dad with a huge arsenal of skills and abilities not everyone has, but also a disability is so crippling that those skills may as well not even exist. It is very sad and I believe it is a huge cause of his always-smoldering temper. He knows he is smart. He knows he is talented. But he is very very aware that he is trying three times as hard to achieve half as much as a regular guy who just keeps going slow and steady until a job is actually done. He internalizes a lot of shame for that, and I'm sure I haven't helped with my attitude over the years. Trying to trick him with the "porch has to be done first" sounds awful, but it is better than my previous MO of just telling him Hell would freeze over before I would let him start anything on my watch because he never finishes anything and what the Hell is wrong, why won't you just pick up the brush and finish sealing the basement, or put the hood ornament back on my car, etc....... I have really berated him a lot over the years and that is definitely the WRONG approach. Humor trumps hatred every time if you actually want to stay married, right?
Why is the contractor an enemy?
Submitted by adhd32 on
Since we purchased our home, the kitchen was in need of a total gut overhaul. H expected he would do it himself with the help of friends. He would on yammer on about it at every social gathering expecting someone to offer help, yet he had never helped any of them with projects. When the cabinet door hinges were breaking and the doors were falling off there was no putting it off. He angrily conceded that since no one was willing to help him we would need someone to come in. We hired a contractor who had redone our friend's kitchen. H was nice to him while the planning was going on but once the lumber arrived and building started H acted like a jerk to the man. H would walk away in mid-sentence while the guy was talking to him. H would try to pick a fight over some ridiculous detail. I finally stepped in because I didn't want the guy to leave us high and dry mid-project and told him to deal with me, not H. H moaned and groaned the whole time the work was being done as if he was the only one being inconvenienced. There were several unanticipated problems that H was not informed about until after a solution had been arranged so we could avoid his very unhelpful input. The job was 5 star and in the end we were all happy. Two years later we hired the contractor again to do another big job and once again H was rude. What is it about having someone else do the work that makes him boil over? Is it because someone is doing something they feel is their manly responsibility? Does he view himself as less than a man, a hit on his self-esteem? I take care of the housework in our home but if someone else came in to do it I would be jumping for joy, in complete ecstasy at not having to take care of it.
Men and their baggage...
Submitted by c ur self on
First let me say as a man the hardest thing in life to deal with is disrespect...Esp. from our wives....And I will also say there is NEVER a reason to be disrespectful to your husband or him to you...NEVER...There may be daily reasons to walk away from someone who is in a spirit of mind that renders them incapable of calm, kind communication....(And many of us live with this reality)....But there is no way back (humanly) from the damage of disrespect, we can forgive, but we can't forget...Just look around you.....
I've been in the same position as your husbands....And I've had the same emotions.....So let me try to give you some Man incite....First off it's our problem (unrealistic thinking) if we think we can do anything. And, it's also our problem if we think we would make the time to do it, even if we could....(and work a regular job, along w/ life's responsibilities)....But, that doesn't stop us from wanting to feel good about ourselves (many of us know we can do most anything we apply ourselves to)...Just as men need to be sensitive to their wives need for love and security...Women must return to him the respect due him, or you've lost him....When men do not feel respected he will try to fight for it for a while...but eventually tune completely out from the pain of it....
If my wife points out something that needs repaired, or if she wants to remodel a part of the house (and is willing to put her money where her mind is) then that is fine....But to get me on board with her thinking some things has to happen....One; she must bring it to me as a suggestion or as her wish for us to repair or upgrade what ever it is.....(If she makes it a demand or threat, she has lost me before we start, attitude is everything)....Secondly she needs to be at peace with just laying out there (this thing that's been on her mind) and then backing off while I too consider all the ends and outs of the thing....Patients!
So if you ladies (men too) want peaceful interaction and unity in decision making the whole thing for men starts with Respect (not eggshells, just respect)....Even if you approach your wishes or the things you deem as real needs in a kind and respectful manner and still run into a defiant attitude unwilling to work with you....Keep your love and attitude right toward him even if you have to work around him to a degree...I know you will appreciate him doing the same, when the shoe is on the other foot....
Also many men who are talented and gifted have even more trouble with this....I worked hard ever since I was a young boy learning to do things...I worked as a Maintenance mechanic at a large Medical Center for 38 years...22 w/ my tools...And then in management the last 16...So I was around (involved in) every kind of repair and or remodel that you can do daily....One thing that taught me...One I can do most things...But it also taught me, a real craftsman don't just walk off the street...It takes years to perfect their trades.....
When a husband is dealt w/ respectfully and made to feel loved and honored for just being himself, then he is soooo much easier to deal with....Kind of like our beautiful wives....Love and respect is the key in all things...
c
I'm sorry. I disagree. I
Submitted by barneyarff on
I'm sorry. I disagree. I don't know why. But I'm putting it out there, respectfully ;)
barneyarff....
Submitted by c ur self on
Not everyone does agree w/ me...My wife is another....But the call for a Husband to love his wife as he loves himself, and live with her in an understanding manner...And for wives to submit to their husbands, and see that she respects him...Those aren't my words....Those words would be eternal truth, If I never existed....
c
This isn't about my respecting him
Submitted by adhd32 on
I was not disrespectful to my H in any way regarding this remodel. I was actually very respectful while waiting years and years and years and years for the remodel. It took a door breaking loose from an upper cabinet and crashing down inches from a child for H to finally admit it was time to move his pride aside and call in a contractor. A contractor who does this everyday and can figure out the roadblocks and can COMPLETE the project. H got the reference, H made the call, H set up the meeting, so I thought he was all in. Are you saying that I was somehow disrespectful because I wanted cabinets that work? I never brought anything up. I learned after so many other disastrous or shoddily finished DIY projects not to verbalize my desire for any more home improvements. I made peace with living in the house as it was a long, long time ago. H does not possess the finesse for carpentry, he can fix mechanical things but there is no esthetic in that, either it works or it doesn't. The nuance of woodworking is far more precise and artistic.
I do not think H's attitude has anything to do with my respect for him. I think H could not stand that I was showing respect to someone who was doing something he could not do. Instead of being respectful and polite to someone who has a special ability, H chose to be rude and nearly sent the man running. This is where the problem lies.
P.S. Just to be clear, the contractor is a very honest, trustworthy man. Aside from being kind, he is very mannerly in an old-fashioned way. He had his crew clear my car and front walk of snow and had someone walk me to my car so I wouldn't fall. I stayed home sick one day and he bought me soup when they went out to get lunch. He did not say or do anything to warrant the wrath of my H. My H however is another story.
Hi Adhd32...
Submitted by c ur self on
(Are you saying that I was somehow disrespectful because I wanted cabinets that work?)
No, not at all. On the contrary, based on your past posts you are very caring, adaptable and respectful of your husband... Regardless how difficult you find trying to deal with him can be at times....
I think you can be an example for many of us....What I post isn't an attmept to point my finger at people I don't know....But, I do like to remind myself and others here how important it is to do our due diligence when it come to the person in the mirror....Because if there is one thing I know....When you are living with a difficult spouse, it is so very easy to give ourselves a break (our words, attitude, and behaviors) whether we want to admit/recognize it or not.....
c
My thought...
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
This kind of thing happened in my relationship. In my case I feel like it was about his own expectations not being met and not being able to accept it and adjust. My ex would get really upset when certain things didn't go the way he thought they should. Mostly around what he thought other people should or should not do, or how they should or should not react, or if he had to do something that he didn't want to do.
I was always kind of dumfounded around his reactions because, to me, it was like... ok well ...whatever it is just needs to get done so who cares? Let's just figure out another way.... but he was pretty much never on board. Instead he would become very childish. Huffing and complaining about the other person or situation, throwing attitude and/or passive-aggressively refusing to deal with whatever it was. As you can imagine, not much ever got done because he would just dig his heels in.
I also think he would get upset about time getting away from him and him not realizing it. Suddenly so much time would pass that I'd be like, look.. we just need to figure out another plan in order to just get this done and he seemed to get upset that it had now reached that level. He would then take it out on me. He would tell me I was "reminding him of his failures", when that's not even remotely what I was trying to do. I was just trying to get shit done.
So.. food for thought maybe... but, rather than analyzing it from over here... I would just ask him. - You seem like you're upset that the contractor is here. Are you?... and then go from there.
Agreement and unity needs to be the goal...
Submitted by c ur self on
When someone lives in a defiant mind...Or, lives in a mind that desires to control things at such a level, that it completely renders them unable to work w/ others for any kind of common agreement...It makes the most simple of projects or change almost impossible....
The sad part about many of these people (men or women)...It's not that they don't like what their spouse is proposing many times...It's just that it wasn't their idea....Many things get left undone, or half done in our homes for this exact reason....But it's never worth fighting over IMO...
This is an example of how it goes in our home...She will say to me...You want to control things....And I say no, I want us to agree, or agree to disagree if we must...But the reality is....I usually refer to her in many things, like paint colors, (esp. inside the house) etc...Just because she is so passionate about getting to control it...And I don't care, I just want it done....So I refer to her, and she will say fine....3 months later, or 6 months later, when she hasn't done anything, or mentioned it again, (which I know from the past, its about 85% chance it's going to end this way when we make this agreement) except for the original battle she put up to be in charge :)...Then she does nothing, so I just end up picking out a color and painting the room...Of course she will say, I was going to pick that paint!...If I'm smart, at this point I just smile and say "Yeah I know" and then walk away....
Yep...IMO...We must set priorities in life...And to give our best effort to understand one another, and be respectful of one another....But, if we have a spouse who has shown to be defiant and never satisfied no matter how respectful we are....At that point we just have to make a decision....To either follow through with our plan alone, or forget about it all together....We just have to consider the cost....Because there are costs when a husband or wife sets out to accomplish things that their spouse refuses to take part in....Some times the cost is a life positive, but more times than no it's a life negative for the relationship...But when the dynamic I just described is dominant in our attempted dealing w/ one another....Do we really have any kind of solid relationship to begin with??
Appearances are deceiving many times....
c
That used to be me
Submitted by GoingCrazyADHDx2 on
That used to be me... I gave up on my house standards. I couldn't manage him and my 4 kids (one ADHD son) and everything house related. Now my house is falling apart daily and I lack the motivation and patience to dwal with it any longer. My house used to be pristine clean years ago. You'd think Im a totally different person now!
jennalelemone
Submitted by phatmama on
In the future, do whatever it takes to not let him start anything in the house. Anything. If you have any money of your own, hire out the work when he isn't paying attention, if that is possible. In general, sneakiness is despicable, but when it comes to this issue, the rubber met the road and this was the only way to cope that actually worked. I am able to do that because my husband is gone for a week at a time, so I can sneak in a lot of little things while he's out. For example, he leaves tomorrow and I am calling a painter today to get our daughter's room painted while he is out. I have been asking for a year, and time's up. I work part time, and my salary is for this alone. It is my way to make sure that the chaos of unfinished jobs never has to control my life again. I have lived in the pits of rage and despair over that particular ADHD tendency for too long. I also pay someone to mow our lawn. Let me be clear that we are not wealthy, but I have prioritized hiring out almost everything involving home repair or maintenance if possible because I was losing my mind before I decided to save myself this way. If you are able to do this, the feeling of empowerment and task accomplishment is amazing. Once I started down this road, I could never go back to the nagging, waiting, hoping, praying that the job would get done and the mess would get cleaned up. I hope for your sake that you can find a solution to this--I know how it feels to have your home hijacked by a well-meaning but ultimately ineffectual "Bob the Builder".