I’ll just start by saying I’m in therapy and I have been. My plan is to tell my therapist Thursday that we need to start working on my anger/frustration/resentment exclusively for a while.
The reason for that is that my husband made a relatively minor forgetful omission, and we had words about it at the dinner table. Our 3 year old said “Mommy punishing you, Daddy” which broke my heart. We don’t even punish our son so I’m not sure where he got that. We usually try not to have discussion in front of him.
I have known for a while that I have an unreasonable amount of anger often. Sometimes it feels more like rage. It is probably because we have spent all our savings on living expenses because he’s been out of work a year following his diagnosis. I had plans for that money such as travel and home repairs (desperately needed—we have an unuseable deck that’s a hazard).
Also, when he “forgets” me or doesn’t think of me, I feel so unloved. He doesn’t touch me nearly as often as I want. Not in a sexual way, just little caresses or kisses or hugs or leaning into each other as we sit on the couch. The feeling unloved just makes everything else worse. I do not know if that is ADD or not.
I WILL get help from my therapist, I’m just wondering whether any other non-ADD spouses have tips for dealing with frustration/rage/grief about your spouses omissions or has any perspective on the touch/feeling unloved issue. Or any strategies I might be able to offer my spouse to make any of this easier.
Question
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
What is the reason he has been unemployed for the past year?
Can’t get hired
Submitted by NerdyMom on
He lost his coding job and hasn’t been able to get another
Practical question
Submitted by NerdyMom on
Is it reasonable for me to expect him to obtain gainful employment by a certain deadline? At this point that is our number one need (although it is in tandem with the need to obtain childcare). I want to really draw a line in the sand about that but it feels not-quite-right.
There are so many people here
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
There are so many people here that can relate to your anger and hurt. I’m sorry that you’re in this situation.
For many years my husband’s and son’s ADHD was undiagnosed. I thought that they were just being cold, mean, lazy, or disrespectful. It took me a really long time to figure out that there was really something different about them.
So now When we have struggles, I try to understand the difference between tasks that they “can’t” do and tasks that they “won’t” do. I ask myself, “Is this an attitude problem or is it an Adhd problem”?
Do you think your husband “wants” to work? Would he be better suited for a different type of job? Does he need a more interesting type of job? Or a less stressful job? I would brainstorm with him to help figure out where he’s trying to go. Also, If you talk to him about it you might gain some insight as to whether it’s an attitude problem or an adhd problem.
This probably seems so simple and obvious to you. But for me, I tend to get bogged down in the overall situation and lose sight of the obvious. I know that for at least 20 years I was in an adhd fog and just trying to survive each day.
I sincerely hope that you and your husband find some relief from your situation.
Merry Christmas!!
I really feel for you....
Submitted by c ur self on
This sounds like something I would have posted 5 or 6 years ago....When we marry a person we expect a person who works at the relationship...We didn't expect a person who's mind so overwhelms them, they seem only self concerned...Are the things you and I experience (and many many more here) from them intentional??...In my opinion much of it is not....But your emotional state (and mine early on) has been built on your feelings that his behaviors are intentional....It is tough enough to stay positive and deal with our own emotions even after we understand many things about the mind they live in...But before I came to the place I have come to these days, I found myself in a heart that was filled w/ distrust, anger,, and bitterness....I was emotionally unstable after a few short years in this marriage....I spent 11 months away from her, and 8 and 1/2 months in couples counseling...Lot's of prays....Lot's of reading and learning....
What will help you is the same things that helped me...You must own your anger and emotional state fully as your own....Do not reference him at all....I know, and you know, that the feelings we experienced....Unloved, Unappreciated, Used, and Disrespected is most of what we built our anger own....BUT...There is no healing until we own our own crap...NOT his, but our own...Then start setting boundaries...You have got to be smart, not mad...Never enable him...Let him sink or swim...He is not your child, he is your husband....Love him in the ways you Vowed to do....But never carry him in life....
Many people who live like your spouse, loves to be carried....Do you think if he didn't have you and those savings at his disposal he would be working at something?...If it wasn't anything but flipping burgers...You and I both know he would...So if you need to separate your finances, do it....Set boundaries!....You asked should you set a time for him to get a job....*Think about that*.....Nothing you can do as a wife will impact him, unless HE CARES!...Setting times for him like he is your child will just insure you stay angry and screwed up...The only things you can set time limits for is what pertains to yourself...If he cared, he wouldn't have blown your savings...He would be working a job or fervently hunting one everyday. He would do what he could until something better came along....He would be a Man!
There is nothing you can do on an emotional level to help...ONLY hurt.....Most adhd minds work...(Hyper)...ADD w/ out the H...Inattentive...can seem lazy and uncaring....And they might as well be, the results in life work out the same....Don't expect him to think or live w/ the level of concern about life issues as you...That is why you are so angry, you are filled w/ expectations that are built in your mind, from your thinking and your feelings, your view of life! He doesn't have that and probably never will....So don't get sucked into thinking for him...
My wife lives like a child in many ways....If it's thrilling or fun, she is all in...If it's just boring everyday work she has just soon take a beating...LOL...It's just the way it is...We have many boundaries built on respect of each others rights due to our differences....
Keep dealing w/ your self...Do not over think or allow your mind to hyper focus about his living of life....You must focus on your responsibilities, your sweet child, your likes and dislikes....You must breathe, and pursue you own adventures....You must live!...Never allow the actions of others to rob you from your own life....I did that for quiet some time....My grown daughters...Just hugged me and cried....I got the message....You need to also....Be patient....
Your post broke my heart...
Praying for you...
C
Sink or swim...
Submitted by NerdyMom on
I don’t feel like I can let him sink or swim because then he will sink us all. I do not want to raise my child in poverty. But cutting him loose will not improve my financial situation either.
I just can’t figure it out
Submitted by NerdyMom on
I don’t know what to DO!
Base you decision's on reality....
Submitted by c ur self on
There are many wives and Mom's on this forum who have not been able to trust their spouses to be responsible....So many of them have had to pursue their own career's (jobs) whether that was their first choice or not....I can't tell you what to do....But I can encourage you to base your decisions on the reality of what your know and see daily....
Do what you must to provide for yourself and your child.....
C
You can do more than you think you can.
Submitted by Kitty Jo on
You can get through this. Think about:
1. If things go on forever like they are right now, what will the result be?
2. Can I, or my family, live with that result?
3. You can't change anyone but yourself.
4. If you can't count on your husband, you have to move forward. Figure out what that looks like for you.
5. Have a plan A and a plan B. Give yourself, not your husband, the deadline. If he hasn't met your expectation by your deadline, implement your plan.
I have found that AL-ANON resources are helpful. My spouse isn't an alcoholic, but the information about boundaries and self direction is very empowering.
Good Luck!
ADHD NIGHTMARE
Submitted by Deborah D on
I need help coping with my ADHD fiance , who I recently left for my sanity. The last straw was when he told our server to place the wine bottle between her breasts to warm it. This like all the other highly inappropriate comments are subject to change or he just denies what he said. Keep in mind that we had just been in therapy where he said he would change the behavior and made this statement within an hour of leaving the therapist's office. No filters and no boundaries are available. Social settings are a nightmare , add a glass of wine with the adderall and the need for attention can consist of him doing splits in busy restaurant or some off the wall comment, generally sexual in nature to anyone who will listen. He loves to sit at the bar in restaurants and utterly monopolizes peoples evenings out and can not get the social que when they turn away, for some reason he thinks they love him. (I can't make this stuff up) It is though there is not a switch that tells him that his behavior is beyond inappropriate and does not have the ability to take ques from the reactions of those around him. We were in DC at restaurant with someone from his company when he decided to bang on the table and announce to those around us what he wanted to do to me sexually. His response in therapy was " I may have gotten a little noisy but my coworker loves me and has no problem with what I said" ...Imagine my response to that one.
At times ,there are conversations where an entire step is missed which makes it difficult to understand what the hell he is talking about.
We met last night and as usual , the offending situations are massaged or they just never occurred and I'm told that I overreacted and that everyone is fine with what he said. He plays the victim and relates to everyone that I am angry and that I may have some sort of bi-polar issue. I'm exhausted trying to keep tabs on what's real and started keeping a diary and all his texts a year ago. His therapist told him " no one has ever called you on your stuff before' , but he denies it was ever said even though I repeated the second time we met with her. He has been seeing her for over 20 years and when I revealed his nonsense , he told me that she didn't want to see me because I was angry ...don't believe him.
We went to a couples therapist who suggested that I really shouldn't tolerate with craziness and decided that he didn't like her. He told her that I needed to be fixed because I angry...she didn't quite agree and told me that she would be angry as well.
This man is almost sixty years old , college educated - who else experiences situations like this ....am I crazy?
No, you’re not crazy! I have
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
No, you’re not crazy! I have been surrounded by people my whole life that acted terribly and then tried to blame their behavior on me. Or, they treated me badly and then acted like I was some kind of an idiot for not enjoying the terrible treatment. In my experience, mentally ill people have the potential to be master manipulators, especially when it comes to physicians and therapists. I don’t necessarily think that they are doing intentionally, but it’s still manipulation, never the less. I don’t think a therapist could ever help my husband because he doesn’t see his situation clearly enough to give honest answers.
It sounds like your fiancé has a hard time reading social cues. I think this is pretty common for adhd. I don’t blame you for being fed up. If he’s acted this way for 60 years, I question wether he will be able to or see the the need for change.
I hear you
Submitted by nexus7722 on
My husband (ADD) and I (non-ADHD) experience some of this same behavior, though thankfully either his hyperactive side isn't as hyper as your partner's, or he's learned a better filter mechanism. But, much of it is the same. We've been on dates where he's actually started talking to a guy at the bar and ignored me for an hour -- in essence -- deciding to continue his date with someone else (luckily, this hasn't happened lately). He LOVES to talk to anyone about anything, even if those people have no interest in talking with him. This often happens with cab drivers. I used to squeeze his knee to let him know he was kind of rambling on, now I don't. He can interact with other people however he wants, as long as it doesn't disrespect me (I'd have been mad as hell at the wine bottle/breast comment, though, so I totally get why you're getting the heck out).
I will say that I do find one funny benefit to his ADD -- His love of talking makes him actually really stellar at parties. As an introvert, I like that I can kind of sit back and let him run the whole conversation. So, there's SOME good with it at least.
But, I hear you. None of that evens out the insensitivity, the disrespect, or his unwillingness to take responsibility for his own behavior. I can understand why you opted to get out. Hope your future months are more relaxing and that, if you choose to, you find someone who is a better fit <3
One additional note
Submitted by nexus7722 on
One additional note, if you opt to stay with your fiance -- if you haven't already read about ADHD and the Hyperfocus phase, you really should. People with this condition, when they are dating someone, will be very, very interested in you. Then, the moment you get married, it will be like you married a different person. The day after my husband married me, he lost all interest in me and sex. He had no idea why -- we didn't know about ADHD at the time. But, this almost always happens. So, will be something that you'll need to work through together. Better to be aware of it now so you're not shocked or devastated like I was 3 years ago.
You are doing the right thing
Submitted by Completely rung out on
You are doing the right thing to get away from this guy. I have spent nearly 20 years losing friends, neighbors, and family members to my husband rudeness. You will eventually have no social life because people don't want him around. I have started to work on having a social life without him (book clubs, exercise classes, etc.). His actions will only get worse, believe me. I was in your shoes.
In the same situation (and a few things that have helped me)
Submitted by nexus7722 on
Hi and I'm so sorry you're having a tough time lately. Know that you're not alone. Also know that I <think> it can get better -- at least for some non-ADHD spouses in this same situation. My husband was diagnosed at age 50 with ADD. We got married, had a child, lost pets, and lost jobs (him), all in the same year. This was all 3 years ago, and the new obligations and stress sent his ADD into overdrive. I had NO idea what was going on. Just that the man that I married suddenly had zero interest in me, didn't do any of the chores he'd agreed to do, never kept his promises, and spaced out at dangerous times when he was watching our child. It was so confusing until he got his diagnosis. Now it's only 80% confusing!
He was at least willing to see a psychiatrist and a cognitive behavior therapist for his ADD symptoms, which I appreciate. He is on medication (if yours goes this route be careful to monitor side effects...the first one my husband tried caused MAJOR and scary rage issues...the one he is on now does not). He also has attended marital therapy with me, which has been the only therapy that has really helped us as a couple -- even if only a little (he focuses solely on himself with his other two therapists and usually forgets to bring up me or our marriage... he can only focus on his stress and on his organizational or work problems unless I'm there to remind him of the broader marital issues that need help too). Anyway, the only thing that has helped me, as the non-ADD spouse lately, has been setting kind but firm boundaries.
A book that I found helpful (after reading all the books on ADHD and marriage, including Melissa's books) was Codependent No More. It's geared more toward spouses of alcoholics (which my husband is not), but the principles are the same -- You can only be responsible for you. Now, I know that this is really, really hard when you're coparenting a child. I can't sit back while my husband zones out and lets our child do something dangerous. I also can't sit back and let him not do any of his chores, because we have to maintain a safe and healthy home. But, I can change how I ask him to do those things. I can request that he set an alert if he needs to do something at a certain time. I can ask him to address a certain topic in his next therapy sessions, then ask for a follow-up on measurable steps. It sounds like parenting, but I do it in a way so the he knows I'm addressing the symptoms, and not him. It is his responsibility to get his symptoms managed more than they are now. It's my responsibility to preserve my own health and sanity, but also his dignity.
He also has weird views on sex that hurt our marriage and our ability to connect...He seems to think sex is stressful or wrong, hardly ever initiates, and when he does, it's a selfish and short experience. He finds it easier to just watch porn behind my back than to have a real physical connection (boy, that was depressing to find on his computer after having him lie to me, saying he was "just tired" -- for years). So we have bigger issues at play than just the ADD (though it's certainly a factor in some of the sexual problems), and that can get to be REALLY overwhelming and depressing at times. I also often feel unloved, unappreciated, and unseen (not to mention untouched). Anyway ... Sorry for the verbosity!
Here's what sometimes works for me:
-- If I am emotionally overwhelmed, I calmly let him know that the symptoms are getting to me, and I excuse myself to another room to compose my thoughts and self. I force myself not to feel guilty for this, even if it means spending a little less time with our child. Our child needs a healthy Mom too.
-- If I am not seeing progress on an ADD symptom that is really hurting our marriage, I ask for measurable metrics/goals from him so I know he's working on it (this is huge for me... given that it seems like nothing changed for the better in 3 years... measurable goals are needed or nothing will change. Executive function and empathy are problems for people with ADD)
-- I'm developing new hobbies and am having more fun. By myself. With friends. And with him when we do manage to go on dates. The fun helps, even if you have to force yourself to go out and to try to enjoy his company. Often I don't even want to go on our planned dates, but I go anyway and never regret it.
It's a short life, and I'm going to try to not waste it sitting around and ruminating about his ADD. I set boundaries to keep my sanity and to to keep our child's safety in mind, then I try to not think about it after that. I do keep divorce as an unfortunate but viable option (I do believe that some of the symptoms can manifest and qualify as emotional abuse, and that's when I have to make a decision to protect myself and my child), but that's the absolutely last resort for me. Nothing ever changed for us until I started setting clear boundaries -- I let him know what was acceptable to me in a marriage, and what was not. I married a good, smart man. I also married his hurtful, destructive, isolating symptoms. So, I try to separate the two while he works on the latter.
Wish I could give you a hug and hope some of this might help.
This comment is very helpful.
Submitted by NerdyMom on
This comment is very helpful. I accept internet <<<hugs>>>. My husband and I have been listening to the ADHD & Marriage audiobook. He has recently started individual therapy but not with an ADD expert. One of his action items is to choose a specialist and switch therapy to the specialist. IF we can get enough money we will add coaching for him. He sees a psych for meds....I am not impressed with the psych and Adderal doesn't seem to be the best fit but that's what he is on. As money allows we'll probably go back to couples therapy, but that's a long way off.
The biggest stressor on the marriage right now is that I am disabled and working full time, and it's not enough to live on. We had to take my son out of daycare, so now hubby cares for him and the job search has really slowed down. We're about to run out of savings. He is contemplating a job driving deliveries in the evening. I am worried we will exchange one problem for another because if he works after I get home, I am afraid that I will burn out. Right now in the evening, he does meal prep because of my MS fatigue while I care for our son. I am uncertain of my ability to care for our son AND do evening chores such as meal prep. That sounds terribly lazy but my fatigue can be extreme and I have weakness and grip issues and can't stand for long.
My preference would be for him to find and vet daycares with openings, us to visit them together and decide on one, and for him to get himself a full-time job that at least covers daycare with some extra because we need it to pay bills and pay down some debt. We'd put together some money for him to get coaching, and then he'd retrain or whatever he needs to do to get onto a career track that earns more. It seems development might not be a good fit for him but he needs certification for an IT job which is where he's thinking of going. That takes money we don't have.
This next period where he works evenings is a good test. Any work he can do that we don't have to use paid childcare to cover is "gravy" budget wise but any more strain on me may cause me to break. IF it proves workable perhaps we may be able to get him in coaching on the strength of that. I suppose if he worked and brought in money and I could stop worrying about that as much my stress and anger would be less.
My main problem with what individuals, websites and the book say is twofold. One: The advice that your anger "doesn't help" and you need to "own it" in itself somewhat makes me angry. I have every right to be angry. I've been abandoned and mistreated and used. Nobody says HOW you're meant to mitigate that anger, especially when your spouse seemingly does f*ck all to change things despite making sympathetic noises. The situation has not changed. His lapses directly affect me. We are raising a child together. There's literally no way to separate my stuff from his stuff. It's the same stuff! The second sticking point is that because his biggest issues right now involve his employment, again, his lapses directly affect me! I don't see how any "boundaries" can help. I can't order him to get a job. A divorce would actually worsen my situation considerably. Cutting him loose, letting him sink or swim, are literally not options for me. Either he swims or we all sink. Boundaries cannot pay my mortgage nor childcare. So that's my reality day in and day out and I do not seem to be able to find resources or strategies or a plan which will lift us out of this situation and though I try mightily I am still by turns angry and grieving.
RE the job search and childcare
Submitted by nexus7722 on
Hi again. I can't imagine having MS on top of all of the other issues, so kudos to you for hanging in there as well as you are. A lot of what you wrote about the expectations for non-ADHD partners really echoes with me. MANY of the books that I read on ADHD discussed the non-ADHD partners responses and how they exacerbate an already-bad situation. There seemed to be NOTHING about the effect on the non-ADHD partner. Melissa at least addressed it in The ADHD Affect on Marriage when she said something along the lines of, "If you are the spouse with ADHD, you cannot underestimate the effect that your symptoms are having on your spouse."
I finally stopped trying to get rid of my anger. I have every right to be angry about all of this, and sometimes even devastated. The shift in thought that I had, though, is that I try to be angry at the situation and the symptoms, not at my husband. I don't always succeed. When I don't and I yell at him for something his symptoms caused, I apologize and regroup. We're all learning how to deal with this, including him.
The job thing is really tough and I can so relate. You and I both have a son who's about 3 years old. My husband lost his job about a year ago. I was sick to my stomach, wondering how we'd afford the house, etc. Luckily he did two things that really helped: I was lucky in that he had savings, so we never had the situation of him not paying his part of the bills. But the big issue was that he focused 100% on getting a new job. Every single day. He applied to multiple places and ended up finding a better paying job within 2 months. Now, he's struggling at that job as well (he hasn't yet gotten his symptoms under control) and I'm worried he's going to get fired again. But, I at least take comfort in knowing that, if he does, he'll get cranking on the job search again.
We hit issues with daycare (that was the first warning sign of his ADHD... he promised to find us daycare and never did... so I was teleworking working full time, caring for our child full time, AND recovering from my c-section). I ended up being the one to find us daycare. He just couldn't do it.
If he's willing to talk with you about it, I'd suggest sitting down and seeing if you're on the same page about getting daycare for your kiddo as soon as he gets a full time job, then maybe setting some metrics to make sure he's applying to X number of jobs daily, etc? My father, when he was unemployed (he had a different condition called Spasmodic Dysphonia that prevented him from teaching), took ANY job he could to pay the bills -- he was a social studies teacher who, when he lost his voice, delivered TVs or painted houses.
Anyway, one takeaway that I hope you remember -- I wouldn't try to get rid of my anger or the hurt. You have every right to feel that and to own it. Just do your best and be sure you take care of you. I'm taking a lot more fun time out for myself now, and it's helped a lot (if you haven't seen Chef's Table on Netflix, highly recommend! There's a great episode in Season 2 on a Buddhist monk who cooks temple food... gave me some perspective on the ADHD, mindfullness, and saving my own sanity). <3
The thing about the job
Submitted by NerdyMom on
The thing about the job situation is that he's "run out the clock" in that there's no more funds for daycare that don't involve him working. He's really put himself in a corner. I sympathize with how stressful that can be, and I know that his treatment for ADD isn't the best right now, but we really just do not have the money to pay for childcare so he can look. We have someone who will work very cheaply and it's up to him to arrange for her to be available (because I am at work and refuse to do it for him). So, we'll see if he's able to take advantage of that.
Last night, I realized that I have a lot of grief and anger about not being able to afford/not feeling healthy enough to get pregnant again. Most likely we would need some medical intervention. But we are not in a place for that right now and I was blaming my husband. Whether or not we would have had a 2nd child (there are many factors on both sides) there was a lot of resentment there. I was able to speak it and release some of the pain with his witness. I have continued to work on myself to be able to get some clarity about things like this. This is one of the very sorest points in our marriage, is that I have begged him to delve into his issues, he has not done much towards that, and as he is older than me I worry that he is creeping into that time in his life where habit and memory and inflexibility will make change nearly impossible.