ok I've snapped :((

I don't know what it was that actually made me go right over the edge but I'm there.

We've started counseling and the counselor suggested we work on one issue at a time. So, we thought tackling the household chore imbalance issue would be a great easy place to start.

We were told to get a white board and hang it somewhere visible (kitchen), sit down with each other once a week and put on the white board all the chores that would need to be done within that week or so.

Then, because my ADD partner hates to be told when to do something, he would select his set of chores and put a deadline date beside each one. He could choose to take as long as he likes to do that chore--as long as it was reasonable, of course.

So, with all the hope in the world, we sit down, write out our chores and due dates and off we went!

Of course this story doesn't end with the initial joyous feeling I had when the idea was put in motion...

At first I felt great like a weight had been lifted!!!! I no longer would have to ask my partner to help out, I would not have to worry that I'd be the only one noticing and cleaning messes, and I had the surety that it would be done at the latest by the date on the board. I could rest easy, right...?

Wrong.

It went well for about 3 days, 3 tasks and that was it! Then, my partner began to feel his usual "overwhelm" and started changing the deadline dates on his chores!?!?!?! I didn't get upset quite yet... (I knew deep down it wouldn't fly anyhow).

Then the deadlines came and went--and chores were not done---and not only that, but we also never talked about sitting down to renew the chore schedule, as we were told to do. I'm too scared (walking on egg shells) to ask him on the weekend to sit down and redo the list because he's SUPER BUSY to pay any attention to something like that!!! :/

Well...

I've had it. I've sort of peacefully snapped. I've been sleeping on the couch for the last week or so and I just feel like giving up completely. This was the easiest of the issues we have and he can't even follow through on it! Imagine when we deal with the REAL hurtful issues of loneliness, communication, anger... etc.

I just don't think I'm cut out for this. My heart just feels broken into a million pieces and it's not about the chores... It's about losing hope that all the 'external, visual solutions' to his internal problems will never be relied upon by him. ever.

He's already moping around the house because he feels I'm just giving up. He's adjusted the chore schedule and put new things up there all by himself and is failing at meeting the deadlines of those too! That's not even how it suppose to be done, but he can't even do it his own way, anyhow!

I know I sound incredibly insensitive but I just have no patience to tolerate this crap! I know he's not doing it on purpose, and though handicapped people can hold down jobs at McDonalds sweeping, taking orders, making and packing meals, he can't even follow instructions on a white board! What the hell?!?!?!?!

What the f**k have I gotten myself into here? I just feel so hopeless... SO HOPELESS! :((

I love him but this is actually one disorder I DO NOT UNDERSTAND. I cannot seem to get it no matter how often I read, post, go for counseling. Knowing that these things are not intentional DOES NOT make it easier. Actions speak louder than words and he's all about inaction. I am so sad...

I just don't honestly believe in my heart that a non-ADDer can be happy with an ADDer unless they are seriously medicated on some major powerful happy pills. My family wont let me just drug myself out for this relationship... They think I should just leave him---ADD or no ADD. :(( They are just sad to see the happy go lucky me disappear for his mental issues. They don't think it's right... They obviously don't get it, either!

I am so sad and numb right now. I know I need to talk to him about all of this but I fear it will just turn into a fight because he doesn't AT ALL understand where I'm coming from. He thinks because I read about ADD I should just understand him by now... heh. Well maybe something is wrong with me because I DON'T.

It's not just about the white board... It's the last 3 years I've spent living my life with this foreign being!

I think I may just have to give up on him completely... and this breaks my heart and makes me feel so incredibly sad inside. I just want to retreat into a cave and never come out! :((

snapped.

I'm there too (((HUGS)) I'm sorry. Just wanted to let you know someone cares.

Same here

I am sorry ebb and flow for what you are going through. It is a really though place to be, believe me I am there. I've been worse, today I just don't give a damn like I used to. I am not sure about in-house separation or how that would work. I am assuming it would be difficult because it is hard to be in the same house with that person that makes you so angry all the time. I don't know if I would be able to do it. Do you have any other options? Anyone you can go stay with? I read some of your postings but not sure what you situation is, if you work or not.

For me what works good is that I am financially independent from him. I am actually the bread winner in the house (not by choice, believe me). He is the one that would be screwed if I left... I think you have to take care of yourself first, how about you try counseling for yourself first? I think that when we have expectations of our partners doing something or not doing something, ADD or not, we are setting ourselves up to be disappointed. Everytime, believe me. You have to put things into perspective, and whether you are going to leave him or not, you shouldn't decide that right now. Try to first see what you would like to see in yourself change and aim for that. What are the things you want to work on and that will make you happy. Maybe it is a job (if you don't work) or taking care of yourself, exercising, meds, whatever it is, think of yourself first.

I know it is easier said than done but we have to try somehow.

I am praying that things get better for you.

ebb and flow's picture

Topaz

Thank you.

 

From a different

From a different perspective...as much as it sucks, it can sometimes take MONTHS for these kinds of things to really take effect and start to work in a way that is meaningful. It is hard work...you cannot give up at the first sign of failure if you're planning on staying for the long haul.

You have every right to feel disappointed, but I think we all know that these changes won't happen overnight. If it were THAT easy ...  hanging a chart and WA-LA everything is fixed ... then none of us would be here. That isn't how ADD works. My husband would change 1 thing out of 10...and be very upset when he didn't get kudos for that 1 thing he changed. So I stopped focusing on what he didn't do, started focusing on what he did to...gently reminding him that I still needed X, Y, and Z from him...and moved forward. I didn't consider him a complete failure at his attempts just because he only got 5% of it right the first try. He will never be able to meet those standards. In the end, he can probably master the chore chart in a way that is satisfactory to you both, but if he's even DOING the chart and going to counseling then he needs a LOT of kudos for that...just my opinion. If all he's getting from you is that you're so disappointed that you're sleeping on the couch, then I'm sure all of the same old "I'm a failure, why even try" feelings are all he's feeling.

I honestly understand what you're feeling...but it is a perfect example of how the vicious cycle never ends...and until you're willing to keep moving forward, as long as you see SOME progress, then you're not going to break the cycle. Ya know? A month ago he was refusing counseling...

ebb and flow's picture

SherriW13

I know...

It's just that something inside me feels very different. Like, I absolutely don't have it in me to give him any kind of kudos. I would be suggesting the same thing as you to someone else right now but I just cannot apply it to my own life with him.

I feel utterly helpless... :((

I feel like, i don't know, upset that we even need a white board with chores on it! What are we, mentally delayed??? I'm just soo upset right now over everything and I think the stupid white board just put me over. It just feels like everything is a long long long "process"... Like, I'll wake up in 20 years, still not married, passed the point of having children and waiting for my effing partner to figure out how to follow the white board! I know I am coming across as having no patience but the 5 or so tasks on the friggen white board could have been done in one day, in literally a matter of an hour! And it's not even the biggest issue between us!! How long will that issue take to conquer??? Will it even ever be possible for him to exit his head for a while and join us out here for a little bit everyday... Doubt it. Strongly doubt it.

I hate this....

I know it's all an exaggeration but I cannot put into words exactly how defeated I feel.

I feel like nobody understands where I'm at in my life with my partner. Everyone I know talks about their relationship issues and their issues are pretty standard stuff.... Then I come out with the white board issue and literally people laugh. 

I'm all alone in this. No one in my life gets it.

It *is* an in house separation. I don't want to talk to him. I can't tell him how I feel because that encourages negativity and he wouldn't understand my feelings anyway... And even if he did understand how hurt I feel right now about EVERYTHING he would just get frustrated and start a fight because he has no clue how to fix it!

Lovely.

Not a good week.

I was holding back tears at work as a client of mine was talking about his 20 year old daughter learning how to save money and open a bank account on her own. He said, no matter what, she needs to learn this life skill. She refuses because she says she'll just get married and let her husband take care of all of that. (cute) So my client proceeded to teach her about joint bank accounts and how what's his becomes hers and she must understand all of this, etc. And that, *obviously* she would not even marry someone who was not like her in the area of saving and spending because that would OBVIOUSLY end in divorce, ultimately.... "She would have saved for retirement and he would only have 30 bucks to his name... how would that ever work out??".  Riiiight....

Oh how I miss that simple logic. The way I used to think about things. Simply. Not complicated, screwed up and backwards like in ADD land!

It made me just cringe inside because even in the area of money my ADD partner and I are so different. And my client is correct... How the hell is that ever going to work out? I understand the concept of separate bank accounts but what about savings in the end and things that do need to be bought together like a house, etc. ... AND CHILDREN--before my eggs dry up. 

I just think all of this is flooding my mind all at the same time and it's sort of dawning on me that this may very well NEVER WORK... no matter how much I love the guy or how much help, meds, help and help we get.

And I'm lonely. I am so f**king lonely I could scream! Oh wait, I do scream about it, I'm just never heard.

**sob**

waynebloss's picture

I am sorry

Sorry to hear, I am in the same boat and you know my story.  I have a question for you, given the list below, does this sound like someone planning on leaving?

 

1.       Stopped all physical contact with her husband

2.       Stopped all conversations with her husband

3.       Applied for 401K from her job and put the kids and her mother as beneficiaries

4.       Has her own medical insurance from her job, even though it did not lower the cost of mine if she is not included.

5.       Best friends with someone who is planning her own exit strategy/divorce from her husband

 

 

Just started putting this together and something struck my gut as a red flag, just thought I would ask. I hate ADD sometimes, it gets the best of me!!!

Not so sure

Wayne, although those all seem to be signs of an ending relationship...I can tell you that  you never know.  My husband and I are in an in-house separation just like you are.  Initiated by me b/c I am tired.  I have even seen a lawyer, and he knows it.  However, I won't say that it's over yet, maybe I'm just hanging on to hope.  But, like your wife, I need time and space...for who knows how long.

Anyway, not so sure those are signs of the end.

waynebloss's picture

Thanks, but more questions

Since your in house separation, do you still talk to him?  You tell him that you want this to work? Do you still include him in some aspect of your life or are you just roommates?  I can handle this separation, but what I cannot handle is being ignored, not spoken to, not show any signs that she still cares!  That is the hardest part for me, not the separation, but being just roommates with the lack of communication. I just do not see anything from her that lets me know she still wants this to work, and being the one with ADD it would be nice to know if there is hope or should I start preparing myself for another path.  I have contacted and going next week to a lawyer, but it KILLS me to do it. 

Just would like some communication at least once every 2-3 weeks, there has been nothing for 2-3 months and that bothers me. 

Thanks for the advice/input add more if you like it!

 

Wayne

I'm so sorry to see you

I'm so sorry to see you starting to struggle with this situation. I think the holidays bring more to the table and make everything more complicated. Stay strong, stay focused on the big picture, keep praying and don't undo all of your hard work because you're having a tough few days. Whenever I'm feeling especially low I try and focus on the fact that, in reality, it is all in God's hands and not my own and no matter what I do (good or bad), nothing will change that. Have faith in your efforts Wayne, and stay true to your 'new' self, and in the end if things don't work out you can hold your head up high and have no regrets. You're going above and beyond, in my opinion, to prove your love for your wife...and to prove you ARE capable of change and that you ARE remorseful for what you've done.

Maybe when you feel you can't go on another minute and you must take control of your life and your future, if you feel she isn't giving you any reason to believe she's working towards that goal WITH you, then a suggestion would be to approach her with the attitude "I love you, I want to spend the rest of my life proving to you that the person you knew for all of those years is different now, and I feel I cannot prove that to you living in the basement and NEVER spending enough time with you to prove this. If you aren't ready to open yourself back up to me, or at least start having some scheduled family time so that you can let me prove to you that things will be different, then I am prepared to let you go and us move on with our lives at this time"...or something along those lines. Just to let her know A) you're ready to dive back in, respect her needs, but also have to start setting some boundaries for yourself since living in 'limbo' isn't fair to either of you, B) you are reasonable in requesting you spend time together, otherwise you have no way to prove yourself as the man she needs/wants and C) you're prepared to move forward with or without her if she cannot start to take the porcupine quills in and give you a little something to hold onto. I mean this is just solely my opinion and what I would think any reasonable person, who does still want the marriage to work, would be willing to work with. Sorry..the 'fixer' in me hasn't been eradicated yet. *blushes*

Hang  in there....you're doing great...just get through the holidays, friend.

waynebloss's picture

I am going to try

I am going to try, but right now it does not seem worth trying.  Tonight, I am working overnight as a nurse and then teaching school (college computer class) in the am.  I will be home around 1pm and then I am going to see Roller Derby tomorrow night.  My wife came home from being out with a friend and we did our usual stuff.  I came upstairs to pack a lunch and she as in the bedroom whistling and talking with the cat.  I spoke to her, ask her how it was going and she said fine.  She came out and we started talking about the schedule, what kid has to go to what b-day party and the usual BS that we can only talk about.  After some small talk, she brought up medical insurance and HIPPA and how a crabby patient filed a complaint and it reminded me that she was still using my insurance instead of using hers so I asked why.  She told me it had to do with the deductible and being close to the end of the year, which I said ok I was just wondering, but I could tell that she was cautious in her approach.  My next question was about her insurance, I asked if she had vision and/or dental and she asked why I wanted to know.  I told her that I did not know if she had it and that I was wondering if she had vision and/or dental included in on hers.  (I am serious, that is all I was asking, nothing more, nothing intended just wondering), but I could tell she did not believe me.  That is when it went down the dark path to where you see the danger signs that say "BEWARE"!  I changed the subject quickly, made sure it was ok that I went to the Roller Derby game tomorrow night and she said yes.  Talked a bit about me needing some sleep then this is where is started getting weird...

 she said, "we will be gone when you get home!" 

I said "ok, where are you and the kids headed?"

She - "I do not know but we will be gone."

Me - "Ok, are you doing this to make sure the house is quite so I might sleep tomorrow?"  (She usually does this, make sure the house is quite so I can sleep if I work overnight, which I have told her that I do appreciate it.)

Her - "No!" , "just going to be busy and we will not be home!"

Me -"ok"

Her - "Tomorrow we have the gym then soccer, and then whatever they want to do but we will not be home!" 

Me - "Ok, I will see you and the kids tomorrow sometime, have a good night and a good day tomorrow."

She said nothing, turned and went to the bedroom, I went out the door and left. That was it, what was weird is that she usually has no issues telling me where they will be or what they will be doing, but this time she would not.  I am probably making a mountain out of a mole hill, but something did not sit right with me.  I know it had to do with me asking about her insurance and wondering about it, but I honestly have no other intentions other than asking.  Am I gathering information, yes I am, I have ADD and unless I write it down I will not remember.  I wrote it down in my ADD book this time but I am not nor do I have intention of dropping her from mine, I do not plan on doing anything, but her look, her tone I know that she thinks something else. 

Does this ever go away?  Does the conversation ever turn back to normal or is this how we are going to be?  I hate this...wishing we could just have a conversation where we would actually talk to each other in a atmosphere where both us are relaxed and our minds open. 8 months ago I would not have this and now the tables are turned and she is me 8 months ago.....I HATE THIS F'ING CYCLE!  

Ok I am done ranting for now, I actually have to get back to work, so have a good night and I will be on sometime this weekend or Monday. 

Wayne- re: trying

Hi Wayne. I want to preface this statement by admitting that I don't know anything about anything.  But reading all your posts, is is clear that your wife is pretty mad.  It seems to me that when someone is mad at you, they are still having a conversation with you.  To me, your wife does not sound as if she is indifferent to you.  That is, if you are reporting your exchanges with any accuracy.  She sounds as if she is very sad, and wanting to hear that you see and understand that, but at the same time not wanting to talk to you and hear herself say the same old things- which after all- didn't get her anywhere in the past.  Sure, your wife is angry because of all that went before.  Maybe she is also angry because she gave you years to try to get it together, and now you want her to "get it together" in a few months.  

Just an aside: When I read your posts, what comes to mind is those old reports about how it was when husbands returned from the war.  Their wives had pretty well figured out how to get along without hubby.  Then hubby returned and was all, "Quit your job,  turn the finances over to me, I'll discipline the kids, etc.  I'm back now."  I hear that really upset a lot of apple carts.

I am just guessing, but I think your wife is dropping bread crumbs through the forest ("...I'm busy tomorrow...we won't be home...")  She wants you to follow her with your HEART.  She wants to know that you care that she won't be home, even though she doesn't want to tell you where she will be.  She can't tell you where she will be, because wherever it is is trite and silly sounding- because it isn't where she should be, which is home with you.  I don't believe it is in the nature of a woman to be cold; she is working very hard at this.  But I think it IS work for her- to stifle loving impulses, to not tell you much about her day, etc.

Maybe your wife built a tower, and perched on top of it, because that's where she felt safe when you were ADDing.  Perhaps the prospect of dismantling all that "work" and leaving her safe place is so God awful scary that she is frozen; unable to stay up there, but unable to come down.  So she APPEARS to be doing nothing.  But I think (and  I know nothing) that she is really asking you something important about the nature of love.  

I think she is asking, in her angry/scared way: "Do you love me now- broken-, like I loved you when you were broken?  Will you wait for me, like I waited for you?"

But, I don't really know anything about these sorts of things. 

waynebloss's picture

Thanks for the words

"But, I don't really know anything about these sorts of things." this might be an understatement!! 

You are correct, she is very mad and hurt and to add another ingredient would be embarrassed that a strong woman such as her would be broken down by her marriage is something she never considered.  I do not want her to get it together in a couple of months, I know and understand that it will take time, a lot of time, but doing nothing is something that I am having issues with.  I did not do the finances for 12 years, I was really bad with money and I knew that she was better.  When my ADD was brought to the forefront and I started to finally see what was going on, I knew that money was top 3 stresses for her so  I asked her if she would share the finances with me, allow me to take some of the pressure, burden and stress that comes from money to help her ease her stress. I got the whole cart with a note that says I do not want to know anything about money!  So I took it over, and I have had only 2 conversations about money since I have. 

I would love to follow her with my heart but it is hard, very hard when you have been ignored for months.  Yes my months to her years is not even close in comparison but ignoring someone is not a good way to get them to follow you with their heart.  Being a guy with ADD, who is trying to understand; I thought that when I asked her where she is going or why, was showing her I care she is not going to be there? I really need help in this area, I have never had issues showing someone my love and affection for them but I have never had to do it to someone who has built a wall and does not want me close. 

I want to tell her that I love her, but she does not want to hear it or believe it.  She told me this herself in one of our counseling sessions.  In the past, I would have kicked her to the curb and told her to get lost and found another woman and be about my happy way.  I am a 180% from that person and chose to fight to get her back. I balked at her suggestion that I needed help, I even resisted but soon found out that she was serious and I needed to or else.  So I took the leap into this BIG F'ing world where normal people live. This is nothing like my ADD world! I am so far out of my comfort zone that I am constantly wondering if I am doing this right? I am scared and the one person who I turn to when I am scared is gone!  I am here alone and wondering if I will ever find her again along with trying to change thoughts, habits, words, and actions?

I thought I was showing her that I do love her by accepting my ADD, taking responsibility for my actions and continue to change without falling off the wagon. But as I was going through this change I noticed that she was slipping away, she was leaving me (to find herself) but I did not know that.  I came to this about 2-3 months ago and have started and since then leave her alone, agree to the in house separation, and live like we are now.  I guess I am in need of simple words that let me know she is out there still wanting this marriage, there is still some love left in her and that she notices any change i have done.  Not wanting this everyday, every week but once a month is not too much to ask? 

She is my wife, she is the one that I promised God to care for, love and be with through richer or poorer, sickness and in health til death do us part and I will!  I am a man, a redneck and very stubborn with a "touch" of ADD so I can hang with the big dogs,  it just sucks that during this time of year family is very important and ours is broken! As a guy I would love to fix it but I can't. I am fixing myself which is very important but missing the one who I want to share it with. 

Thanks Revelation, please continue to add your "not knowing anything" thoughts, I actually think you might know more than you think!!


Wayne

Trying ...but not sure it's too late.

Wayne (and any other couple )my heart breaks for you and your wife, I suppose it's because of our life.I love him with all my being, but I'm moving out in 2 weeks.Bitter/Sweet...I know that I am co-dependent and feel I have done all I can to help him to the point of getting sick myself. I feel he needs the time to reflect on himself without my in-put. The only thing is will he in time (without)* doing damage I can't look past. I'm so tired of the load of "our relationship" that I'm already not sure what type of love I have for him.I left him in March( the day after he started his meds, but he continued them and we got back together in May). After them being increased twice he stopped taking them and said he would never take them again. I will have to say I was relieved he stopped that certain drug, because each time his temper and the hyper ness got worse. He is 51 and has been in serval relationships in his life, but says I'm the only person that it has effected. I know info. about some of the relationships other than from him, and feel adhd was effecting the relationship even if they did not see it. He is very controlling to the point if he got upset then he just filed for divorce.A few examples: wife #1 she would not stop smoking, so in less than 6 months he divorced her..# 2 She wanted to buy a house together and he wouldn't so out of anger she said to him "you are never going to have anything in life"he was 48 @ the time and had never owned a home and 2 yrs @ a job was the longest he had been employed. So what does he do...moves out and files for divorce. Now his take on the marriages is that #1 knew she had to stop smoking and #2 He was not going to let a woman talk to him like that. With that said he as told me many times that I talk down to him like a "red headed step child"and hit him. He says that no other woman has ever treated him like this . He says that I have a  temper that I can't control.With that said I will give examples of this.I will admit I have spoke to him without respect and hit him. Example: I needed to complete the basement apartment in my rental house ( out of state)   he said he'd help me, but said he knew nothing about building.I'm not a builder by trait but have done more most than the average man...so here we go. He had no patience when i would stop and think about the next step he would become an expert not funny when it's already a stressful job. I was deciding if I was going to use nails or screws to attach the wall to the floor. He said that I could not use either because it was concrete, that I had to use liquid nails.I just looked at him like you have lost yr mind (he) then proceeded to tell me that I was stubborn and a know it all. I was stressing more over him than the project at hand. I Findlay said I need a break...that was not  the thing to say. He started complaining about everything...I lost my temper. He still to this day does not admit that he had a part of the situation. About me hitting him....He was in my space and I didn't want him there, I told him, seemed it and finally pushed him back, he drudged me to the chase and choked me...and yes I hit him. His take is that "he" was defending himself.He also says that he can't rape me, that I'm his so it's not rape, and no ends up being yes.

 

* He had two affairs while we were broken up.

 Wayne I'm not saying that this is how you and your wife have lived , but everyone has there limits.I do love him , but like I said before..."I'm not sure what type of love anymore. He has been diagnosed with adhd and read how adhd affects your loved ones so, to me he has the knowledge the rest is up to him. No matter what the further holds for us I pray that he gets help, because life is wonderful if he can let it be.

Wayne: a silly metaphor

Wayne, would you permit me to take a stab at what's maybe going on with your wife (disclaimer: I don't know much about these sort of things; I can only guess...)? But I would guess she probably sees it something like this-

Your wife has been walking through a desert wasteland carrying a heavy pack, with you walking next to her (note: I did not say WITH her).  Very early on, you both carried this pack and shared the burden.  As time went on, only she carried it.  Your wife hungered and thirsted.  She tired. She knew it would ease her burden to drop the pack.  But still she carried it; what was inside was too precious to her to leave behind, or to trust it to your reluctant hands.

You have reached an oasis.  But its the middle of the desert; you can't stay there.  Your wife is exhausted.  She has put the pack down, so she can rest. Your wife is gathering provisions for the remainder of the trek.  She knows she hasn't the strength to carry both the pack and the necessary provisions.  She has looked inside the pack and the contents- the heart of your marriage- appears to be a dried, withered husk.  She has to decide.

You are telling her to choose the heart.  You are telling her "It's still good.  It's worth saving."  You are saying, "I will help you carry it now."  But her strength is gone.  She is saying, "YOU carry the heart".  She needs to see you pick it up.  She needs to see you treat it like gold.  Even though its withered and fallen to shreds.  She needs to see if you can carry it carefully, without breaking it.  She needs to see if you can love that husk into something precious, beating and alive.

 

I remember when I carried this heart; first, with my husband.  Later, I carried it alone.  I remember the day I tiredly let it fall from my hands.  I remember that he did not pick it up.  I left it behind.

Hole in the bucket's picture

*Claps and cheers*  Woohoo! 

*Claps and cheers*  Woohoo!  Well said.  Well said!  *Glances at scatter brained wife who is staring at something shiny and hikes my bag a little higher while she skips around chasing butterflies* Alright then honey.  Come on. 

Hole in the bucket's picture

Nah.  YOU can call me Deven. 

Nah.  YOU can call me Deven.  Or D if you REALLY have to abbreviate.  Just not Dev.  If you have to cut five letters down to three... you're retarded.  All the way or not at all.  Like people who leave doors HALF open.  Close it or don't!  Or capri pants!  UGH!  Wear pants or shorts!  Skorts!  SPORKS!  AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!  Indecision is everywhere.  I get enough of that from my wife.  Speaking of which... once again I am left alone at night... soooooooooo I'm gonna go google Giana Michaels and see if she's receptive to my advances. 

I love porn. 

 

Deven

You have such a good and sharp sense of humor.  I have read your other posts; I admire your steadfast attitude, your trying to stick it out with your marriage.  I don't know if many men would do that, especially the younger set (I am guessing you must be in your late 20s or early 30s?).  I am dating myself using the term "set".  These forums seem to be made up primarily of women.  You are funny, but I can hear your loneliness.  

Hole in the bucket's picture

I'll show you mine if you

I'll show you mine if you show me yours...

Age... Jesus what did you think I meant?

Oh that?  Yeah that sounds way better...

waynebloss re: sporks

You know you are on an ADHD forum when the thread of conversation moves from mental "snapping" to "sporks"....

revelation re:sporks

Ah and you know you are married to an ADHDer when you can follow that train...

Mr. Bucket- re: porn

Are you quite through "visiting" with yourself yet?  Where are you?

Hole in the bucket's picture

Just close your eyes and feel

Just close your eyes and feel around.  If you bump into me it'll be the most affection I've had in two weeks... except when I had that embarrassing moment with Dr. Gregory House.  Oh yeah and my wife was there too.  Or that mod music you played while rereading glowing paper hearts.  Le sigh.

hole in the bucket- re: affection

What happens when you initiate an encounter?  Is your wife on some sort of medication that affects her sex drive?  Is she affectionate with you in other ways?

Hole in the bucket's picture

Sometimes she gets

Sometimes she gets affectionate at other times.  Essentially any time I focus on anything else.  If a friend comes over (even the only friend I have had over in weeks) she will get pouty and moody and when I ask her what's wrong she says that she was hoping to spend some time with me on THIS day (despite her having ignored my existence for the past week and until my friend's arrival... and yup... after he leaves too).  Or if I start focus on my writing... my DREAM... As soon as I really start plucking away, she suddenly wants to be irritating and poke me in the face, be loud and obnoxious, throw stuffed animals at me, say I never spend any time with her or generally do whatever she can to get my attention away from ANYTHING that gets my focus.  She doesn't care if I am UNfocused.  She just doesn't want me to focus on ANYTHING but her.  But as soon as I do, she doesn't want it.  

What happens when I initiate?
I go and take a shower, trim the facial flora, throw on her favorite cologne and clean the house.
Me: Well you look stunning today.  I dig the make up.  Trying new eye shadow? 
Her: Yeah, I just bought a whole huge set.  Trying out new shades and combinations. 
Me: (Manage to keep myself from twitching and yelling about her spending money) Well yeah it looks nice.  Especially with that shirt. 
Her: Thanks. 
Me: Soooo... I missed you.  Did you get my note earlier? (I had put a folded up letter citing how much our son and I were missing her at that very moment and put it in her tupperware container under the sandwich I had made for her lunch, so that she would pick up the sandwich, see the note and know that while she was eating a sandwich made with love and affection by her husband, he and her son were at home missing her.)
Her: I need to eat.  I feel sick.  Yeah I got it.  Thanks.  Scratch my back? 
Me: Sure. (I scratch her back for a half hour, working some massage in there as well, then make us some dinner and put the baby down, all while she lounges on the couch and watches tv.  Then we step outside under the moonlight to smoke a cigarette and relax after our day and our meal.  Well... I'm relaxing... she's BEEN relaxing for the past five hours.
Me: You know, baby's down, we have the whole house to ourselves... (My hand gently and tenderly alights a trail up her spine to her neck where it is replaced with a gentle kiss)
Her: Rolls her eyes and shakes her head then sighs exaggeratedly) Yeah.  Fine.  We can do it.  If you want.  (With sighs and grumblings.  Making sure I know how much of an inconvenience it is for her.  Or she just says "Ugh!  Deven I just told you!  I'm sick!  And my arthritis is acting up.  And I have a headache.  My knees are bothering me.  My abdomen feels like I am being stabbed.  My back hurts too much.  I'm sore down there.  My gag reflex is really bad.  Etc etc. 

 

Hole in the bucket's picture

Oh she definitely does.  And

Oh she definitely does.  And she still wears tinkerbell t-shirts with her ugly bright red eeyore pants.  And pajama bottoms with a distressed moose on the phone and "Text Moosaging" Written above it, shirts and pants with cartoon characters and so forth and she needs to be told to clean her room.  She's like a two hundred thirty pound, sixteen year old brat. 
I mean I read comic books, and I play dungeons and dragons... it's bad when I am the one saying come on... grow up a little.

hole in the bucket- moose pants?

There is more here than meets the eye.  You need to meet me over in the "adhd wife" forum where these blasphemies belong.  We cannot discuss this here.

Hole in the bucket's picture

Beautiful.  Poignant. 

Beautiful.  Poignant.  True. 

I'll tell you what... if you love like you emote... I'd carry that pack for ya. 

Mr. Bucket...

"I wouldst thou couldst." Thank you.  It is heartening at such times to know that there are those who would lighten my burden. You are a gentleman.  You may ignore my previous protestations regarding "ratios."

waynebloss's picture

Pick it up

How can I pick it up if she will not let me?  I know that I am missing the point, I would love to pick up everything and carry it for her but when she will not let me what then? 

How can I pick it up, carry it and turn it into something that she will want?  This evening, after I woke up from sleeping around 4ush....I worked all night last night and taught school this morning, she told me that we need to talk.  She had an accident, not a bad one but ran into someone, who was a jerk! She told me that she contacted her mother, asked if she could borrow the deductible and only she would pay it back.  I asked if she was ok, if the kids were ok, which they were and then I asked how it happen and she told me.  She then preceded to tell me that "I" (she) will pay back her mom, "I" took care of it.  I thought for a bit, trying to wake up and trying to think of the right words with the right tone, I told her that we would be fine just need to do some adjusting here and there but we would be fine.  She started to cry, she felt guilty that I would have to work more to pay this off and that our Christmas was damaged!  As she started to cry, I handed her a Kleenex and went to hug her and she pushed me away!  You see that...I try to be loving, try to be understanding and I am pushed away!!

I told her that I loved her and that it was an accident and it will be fine.  I did not like that she used "I" and not "we" and that she already tried to take care of it.  I told her that we are a family, broken or not, and that we can get through this.  She still pushed away so I told her to do whatever she wanted, just let me know what she decided.  I left for the night.  

I do not know what to do or how to handle this, I am hoping that God hears my prayers and clues me in on my plans, but for now I will deal with my wife who does not want me but somehow I must show her that she does.

waynebloss re: you picked it up just fine

"How can I pick it up if she will not let me?"  Wayne, this is not a matter of "letting".  You say she cried when you told her that things would be fine,  but then pushed you away.  Do you see that when you told her you would take care of her, she wept?  Do not be disheartened that she pushed you away.  She hurts.  Be patient.  The time that she needs to heal is passing even now.

You are a nurse; surely you have administered to patients who are very ill, maybe dying.  The sickness must run its course.  What is the most meaningful thing you do for them?  You allow your presence to speak- of love, of care and understanding.  You ABIDE with them.  You bear patiently. You accept. You endure.  You remain.  

She is your "patient".  You must simply abide with her now.

You fear that she is planning to leave and that your time will be wasted.  Your time is wasted now on these thoughts.  Love cannot be wasted.  Many of us here love  spouses who push us away every day in some way or another; still, we love. She loved you this way.  Keep your hands and heart open.

Revelation & Wayne

Revelation..I feel like we are 'good cop' / 'bad cop'. You're so rational and patient and I'm so 'fix it now'. LOL Great points you make..as always. I need to learn some of this patience in my own marriage...and quit giving advice through my "OMG this needs to be resolved TODAY" lens of life.

Wayne..I do urge you to be patient...continue to be honest with her about what you feel and where you want this marriage to be 6 months from now, in a non-pushing kind of way, but I do think you're seeing signs that she's still 'there'. I try and think of how my marriage would be if my husband would have been the first to claim 'change'...and I'm not sure how quickly or slowly I would have trusted him with my heart again. Instead I lost my Daddy, my marriage was in shambles, and I said 'screw this' and changed myself and insisted he either come along or get lost. I just dived in head first hoping for the best. It was, all kidding aside, the hardest thing I have ever had to do...and in the months following there were a few times I felt I had made a huge mistake.

Hang in there...don't start getting down about it. Keep plodding along and keep your chin up. If you feel she has a need, meet it. Give everything you have...and in the end it will pay off.

Sherri

ebb and flow's picture

Wayne

 "As she started to cry, I handed her a Kleenex and went to hug her and she pushed me away! You see that...I try to be loving, try to be understanding and I am pushed away!!

I told her that I loved her and that it was an accident and it will be fine. I did not like that she used "I" and not "we" and that she already tried to take care of it. I told her that we are a family, broken or not, and that we can get through this. She still pushed away so I told her to do whatever she wanted, just let me know what she decided. I left for the night. "

 

Wayne, this is a typical move. I've done this to my ADDer before. It's, again, an emotionally immature way to go about it but it may be her way of saying 'I'm sharing this info with you but I'm still mad at you and still feel defeated about our relationship'. I've often done the 'pushing away his affection' before. Though I want his affection and am starved for it I'm still upset when he rarely gives it to me!?!?!?! :((

I'm not sure why this is... I think it's because it feels like he's *trying* to give me affection but I'm already passed the point of repair... And I'd also like it to be consistent, not just when I'm obviously crying and upset-- so I think I'm communicating that by pushing him away. lol It sounds so crazy and funny as I'm writing it but it happens often... I've even seen it done in movies, too! I really don't get it. If I'm emotionally starved and he goes to hug me while I'm upset--I push him away! LOL Weird... but it happens to be a way of communicating "I wish you would REALLY care about me and show me ALL OF THE TIME-- not just right now while I'm crying".

Oh well, that's my input with regards to that... lol

waynebloss's picture

but it happens to be a way of

but it happens to be a way of communicating "I wish you would REALLY care about me and show me ALL OF THE TIME-- not just right now while I'm crying".

I am a romantic, flowers every week or every other week on the kitchen table, she loves fresh cut flowers.  She told me about 4 months before her birthday that she likes tulips...I wrote it down and sent her some from the kids but she actually told me she LOVED them,   I used to send her text with just I Love You without nothing else throughout the day, not everyday but once ot twice a week maybe. I would write on the bathroom mirror after a shower, I would tell her that she is beautiful without being cued, I would do all sorts of things without being cued or without her telling me that is what she wants. The issue now is I am told to stop, stop everything, do not say I love You, do not show I love and do not get me anything (flowers, small gifts, etc)  that says I love you.  I try to talk, I try to listen..really I have been practicing my listen skills but I cannot do anything.  Funny way of telling me show me ALL OF THE TIME, when I am told to stop ALL OF THEM TIME. 

I am wondering if she is willing to try the healthy separation because she pushed me away when I tried to show something and that I have been actually treating her as a roommate?  I do not know, but it is very hard to be the guy and to have a very beautiful woman within feet of you and you cannot touch her, hug her or even tell her how beautiful she is!  The other day she was standing in the kitchen and I just wanted to go over and hug her but knew that I was not allowed so I just took a deep breath and told her that she looked very nice!  That was greeted with nothing, not even a nod, so I just left the room. 

Hoping for good things or at least some information that I can go off of when we discuss the healthy separation.

 

Wayne

ebb and flow's picture

Wayne

Oh, ok...

Well, I've been there too! lol

I've asked my partner to just stop with all the "I love yous", presents, flowers, doing nice things for me because it felt like he was just doing it without any kind of feeling behind it. There was a lack of presence behind his actions... It was tough to explain to him at the time, as well. Sorta like, he was doing those kind things just 'cause... and not because he loved me. O_o  I know..

You see, there is a reason why she's upset with you... And what ever that reason is, it's keeping her from allowing you back into her heart. It's making her believe that you are that *negative* person she sees in her mind, instead of the kind caring person that tells her he loves her and wants to be around her... etc.

Again, it's just my guess...

waynebloss's picture

I do understand

I did not do these things all of the time just when it hit me to do it.  You are correct, she is very angry with me but she is viewing me in the past and not letting me change that picture.  It will take time for the anger to drift away and I am willing to wait that time and take each new opportunity to gain her trust, her compassion and her love.  I do know know if you but I was given a link for "healing separation" and my wife has agreed to this!  We shall how it goes.

Wayne

ebb and flow's picture

wayne

Wow!

I hope this works for the two of you! I really wish you all the best and I hope her heart warms up to you again, especially because you are trying so hard to be the best man you can be for her. You want to make it work and that is clear through all your posts.

Good luck!

Let us know how it works for you two!! :))

I think if you love her, then

I think if you love her, then wait until the ends of the Earth...I think any marriage that has 2 willing people can overcome just about anything if they love each other..BUT..

..what I keep getting a sinking feeling about is her refusal to discuss anything with you, spend time with you, and just share anything in general with you. I worry that you're giving 100% and in the end she'll walk away. Does she possibly already know what she wants? I mean would it kill her to say "my goal is to make our marriage work"? and give you a reason to keep going? I think it is very fair for you to expect an answer. I fully admit maybe she can't give you that answer right now...it just seems so cruel to me. I think back to when my husband and I were separated...and how hard it was for me to feel that distance between us. Looking back now, it was probably one of the best things that ever happened to us...to him...I truly believe it helped him hit rock bottom. But, through it all, for the most part, very few days went by that we weren't sure we wanted to be together in the end.

I am probably the wrong person to even give advice on this subject since I am a 'fix everything now' person. I go back and forth on this a lot. I think revelation has some great points. I just worry that she might already know she's not staying in the marriage and is not being honest with you. Do you feel she is the kind of person that would tell you this, if she were not going to stay?

ebb and flow's picture

Wayne

Sounds like there was a lot of 'underlying message' going on during that conversation.

She got defensive at the point of the discussion where you asked about her new insurance. Maybe she feels you don't care that she's making BIG moves away from the relationship... Maybe she feels you're acting very nonchalant about the whole thing by asking if her insurance included vision or whatever instead of asking her *why* she's gotten her own insurance (and, ultimately, having the BIG talk--where she is heard).

It's like, she doesn't like that you're acting like all of this is O-K. She wants you to be unhappy about the moves she's making because that means you care. (This is a major stab in the dark)

I'm not sure, but it seems like something I would do... Like, I would act fine until you start hitting the 'hot spots', then I'd get cold with my responses to you. The hot spot here seemed to be the details of the insurance, for some reason. Then she started acting cold with regards to where they were going later... she doesn't know where she's going, there just going!

And then, by the part of the conversation where you were asking if she's leaving so that you could get some sleep... In a cold way it seems she was saying, "pffft, as if I'm doing anything for you anymore, buddy! I'm going out because I'm going out!". You know??? That's what it seems like to me...  

Have you shared with her your deepest feelings about your marriage? How she is the only person you can go to in life and how you've been trying with the meds and therapy? And how, maybe,  if she would share 3 things with you that are her biggest concerns of the marriage, you would take them to the counselor and work on those things (to start). I would maybe write her a letter and see if it warms her heart a little...

I don't know. I'm not married and I don't know what it's like to be in an ADD relationship for that long. I've only been living with my partner and we've been together only 3 years and I feel I've gone bananas already! I'm not sure what 12 or more years would do to me as a person... phew!

I would say there was a lot going on 'under the surface' of that conversation that was not being picked up on by you. It's not a surprise because you're not a mind reader, and this happens in every relationship, not just ADD relationships... I know from experience with my ADDer he has a hard time reading the message 'between the lines'. And when I'm upset, I speak this language because I'm too scared to be vulnerable. It never works and it just makes things complicated and overall worse for the two of us... but it's hard to change.

Anyway, hope that helps??

waynebloss's picture

Funny you say that!

Thanks for the feedback ebb!

When she first informed me that she was getting her own insurance, I did show emotion, I did ask her why and that it bothered me.  On all her moves away I have let her know in a non-threatening way that I am concerned and that they bother me but right now she does not care or shows she does not care.   I just left them alone now, not giving up just not ready for a war yet.  

When she asked me for time and space to sort stuff out, that also meant I could not bring up any hot topics at all. That she wanted to be left alone and not to be bothered with anything accept the BS, kids and schedule. It meant that if I question then I did not trust her or that I was "checking up" on her which goes back to the trust issue that I do not have.  I was told that Wed - Fri after work hours were hers to do what she wanted, when she wanted and with who she wanted.  I asked once about an event and the repercussion I received told me not to do that again so I have not.  Which to her shows that I am reverting back to my old ways by not talking and stewing over the issue.  I have not done that in 4 months sad she has not noticed yet!

We tried e-mails which went well for about a month then she stopped and never returned another one.  The last time she text me something BIG was a 9 rant text that called me names, told me I was horrible, told me that I was a roommate only but more importantly I was a "shitty" friend, bad husband.  Why do I think she was so awful, if she was that bad why do I want to save the marriage.  Thanked me for fixing the money issue but why do I drag her name through the mud when talking with friends.  This caught me off guard because I never use words like awful wife or bad mother to describe her, I never have never will.  I never called her names, NEVER talk to friends about my/our money issues or our marriage issues.  Her next to last text told me that my deep thoughts that night hurt her deeply, which is strange, I did not talk to her that day, left for work at 6:30am left work at 4pm went and did office hours talked with her mother but it was a light conversation about my son's b-day party and then played a double header softball game and did not get home until 10:30pm and she was in bed but somehow my deep thoughts hurt her...how? That was the week we started the in house separation, when I knew that something was not right with us.  

I do not know when we will talk again or if we ever will so I am going to keep moving forward with me. I do not want to ignore her but at the same time I do not want to light the fireworks so I play it by ear.  I am going to send her one more e-mail, letting her know how I feel about everything and then I will see where that takes me!  Will update when that happens...I need to gather my ADD meds and some deer jerky to weather the storm!  

Honestly...response to Wayne

Honestly...I feel like we've just been roommates for a long time even when not in a separation.  My husband has ignored my needs and attempts at communication so much that it's been very painful.  Right now, we don't talk or communicate except about picking the kids up (and then it's by text).  We're living our own separate lives, and I want that right now.  A piece that you may be missing--she may be afraid to put herself out there once again.  I know I am afraid to do it because I'm afraid I'll just be ignored, battled, etc. (rollercoaster of ADD)  I've always done that, trusted him, jumped back in, then my heart is broken again.  (17 years of it)  There comes a point when you have to protect yourself and justify to yourself that you are NOT crazy.

However, you indicated in other posts that you did spend some time together over Thanksgiving.  That's a great step...whether it was quality time or not.  It was time together.  I didn't spend any time with my husband.  I told him that he could take the kids for 4 days to his family's house, and I went on a 4 day trip alone.

I would keep the appt. with the lawyer just for your own information and piece of mind.  It doesn't mean this is the end, but you at least have questions answered.  You're right, 2-3 months is a long time to go through this.  At some point soon, you'll have to decide how long you can accept living like this.  You'll have to push for counseling or for one of you moving out.

Well, many here understand

We do get how you feel, I regularly get so overwhelmed, feeling that everything is my responsibility, even if he does things it's almost only whatever I ask, rarely spontaneously.  Or, if he thinks of, say, vacuuming, it's right when I'm watching a TV show and the noise drowns out the show.  Some days I'm patient, understanding, nice, etc (hey, I am a teacher so I do have those things in me) but sometimes I just snap.  It's too much, I don't feel we are equal partners, it's like living with a teenager, and so on.  Every time I try to implement a "system" it ends up like you described.  Doesn't mean I don't keep looking for a new system...  But I don't know what works.

Just want you to know you're not alone.

I do think we can be happy together, ADD and non-ADD, at least in some cases.  All relationships are compromise and work of course, these just tend to be even more of that.  When I'm all Pollyanna-ish, I try to see it the way I saw going through depression.  Even though it was awful, I really wouldn't want to have just skipped that period in my life, because it taught me to be more understanding of the things people might silently be suffering and that you don't know what's going on in someone's life (I didn't tell anyone except a couple of close friends).  
As a teacher, living with an ADD guy really helps me understand the students that have ADD and some other learning disabilities as well.  In fact, I'm spotting the ADDers a mile away now (didn't get it before).  So while it's hard and challenging it does add another dimension to life and a deeper understanding of what makes people different from each other.

waynebloss's picture

I never got that bad...

My wife and I have had some BIG fights and I do remember coming close to being physical but never got there. All of our MAJOR fights had to do with either me drinking a lot or both of us drinking a lot and then tempers flared!  I knew that our fights were from drinking but had no clue that I was medicating with it until 1 counseling session where she brought up situations and made me SEE for the 1st time how I was!  MAN what a eye opener!!  Seeing, hearing and understanding that it was an actual issue and not her just bitching made me cry like a baby.  How could I do that to her and my 6 and 5 y/o kids!  I have had many eye openers in the last 6 months since I started meds and counseling, I will tell you that since then I do not drink at all when I am alone with the kids.  I used to drink 6-18 a week and now I am down to 1-2 every 3 weeks. 

Our biggest fight right now is conversation.  The art of communicating is not one that I have yet even attempted to master.  We are so raw now with everything being exposed that instead of trying to find ways around it we have just stopped.  We had one good conversation 3 weeks ago where we discussed money then she wanted to know how I felt about the separation.  It started well and ended well but that was the last one.  OUr next one did not go well, as I stated in another post that we are sinking financially and I thought she should know what is happening.  That started out good, went very bad, then I thought I ended it well but I could tell she was still in the bad arena so I ended it.  I also think that Thanksgiving was close where she never told me that I was invited to her family's she sais she would think about it but never said another word. I also went to court due to being sued by her credit card company (I was on the account which I did not know I was), so I am best guessing that this added more stress to her which caused the anger to come out even more.  I hate guessing the why but until she says something then I have to guess.

There are have been added stresses recently but still does not make it easier when it happens!  Thanks for letting me ramble and vent, if she knew I was on here doing this I would be in hell even deeper.  I tried to show her this site once, but it came from me so "I was trying to fix or help her fix her issues" so I let it drop. 

I read some posts in here where spouses go years living like my wife and I do now and I wonder if I sound like a ADD baby for stating that 2-3 months is very hard for me?  Right now I do not see me lasting years but I do still love her and I do not quit so we shall see!

Wayne