This has been such an Odyssey trying to figure out...."who am I with "....that I wanted to make a quick post and say what I've found out and how I see my wife now compared to before I came home from my personal journey here.
I do think my wife is ADHD. Even though her mother was Bi-polar, I'm thinking less about that now. The symptoms just are lining up right and I've felt for a long time that are "so much the same in many ways." LOL That might be an understatement.
But less to do with any diagnosis and more important our relationship together....I'm going with my T on this one....Attachment styles is where it's at. (excuse the dangling participle ...I think that's what it called? lol )
As my T clued me quite some time ago....my wife has a dissmissive/avoidant - fearful/avoidant style which is as I see it....is really the most concerning part of our relationship. She can so cold, distrusting, hard to get close to and not very empathetic especially when you have a problem. They say they're the most apt to be critical and intolerant of their partners flaws, rigid in the ability to be flexible (non existent or just barely at times) see things in idealized ways, suspicious of others, but almost the most disturbing thing for me...is the hypocrisy in their thinking about things.
As it is described...the have the highest positive view of themselves and the lowest view of others yet...they have extremely fragile egos and very defensive of anything that looks like or even smells like and hint of criticism towards themselves...but yet, are the most critical of others and intolerant of others flaws? errrrrrr!!! I'm letting go of that too,
This is something...that drives me nuts sometimes!!!! My wife is no exception.
As a former anxious-preoccupied who are most likely to see themselves as flawed and see others more positively...no wonder at the very least...I had/have the ability to make friends easily. I learned a long time ago despite this challenge....tha I like people...and sometimes people like me as long I keep my ADHD symptoms in control which before I knew I had ADHD....was the key motivation to do something about it.
From the old me...to the new me (more secure and pretty solid most of the time)...insecurity was the thing that drives people away so I worked on that early and got use to rejection. At the very least in a positive way....I was always self motivated to improve any way I can so I could get friends and keep them as long as kept at it. And here I am doing the same thing but now with a caveat I've learned through all of this.
The new challenge now...in keeping in line with everything I've said. I want to keep working on our relationship...but on my end... not quite as hard. My wifes tendencies as they are will make her: reject more, distance herself more, withdraw more, manipulate and try and control more, and use any means she can to gain attention to herself....without considering me into the equation.
She can be cold as ice and completely uncaring or indifferent with an attitude that says....I'm better than you...but feeling less than inside. The irony is ridiculous. On one hand...she needs to feel superior....but on the other hand she doesn't feel superior. On one hand...she takes offense easily....but is mostly offensive outwardly to others. On one hand...she's needy and clingy and very demanding....but hates that in others and especially men n anything from her. ( the worst aspect of our relationship are these imbalances )
I'm not needy or clingy...but I'm also not very demanding sometimes to my own determent. She wants what she wants....but not very willing to earn it or work for it and kind of expects without giving much in return in the from of the "thing" she wants most. Attention. She wants it...but as far as attention goes....she wants all of it sometimes. That's when she gets manipulative and controlling to make sure she'll get it.
On top of this...she has some other co-morbid features to go along with this group of traits in the form of OCD,as well... which sounds like a nightmare to deal with and not very promising.
But as I thought this over and reflected on this a while....I really think it's important to look at the most important aspect all said and done.
We're all human, and we all share that in common. We all have needs...and some are a little harder to deal with than others.
The list of things I'm going to keep in mind with my wife now I know who I'm with...
Conflict: To avoid conflict....I will need not to try and compete with her on any of the things I mentioned that fall into special needs for an avoidant personality. She really is the one competing and if I don't compete and give her what she wants...mostly, this works out fine.
The problems come...when I want what I want. She is not very responsive and kind of intolerant in meeting my needs and mostly disinterested and indifferent.
This makes for an interesting gender comparison here. Mostly....men find it difficult when a woman gets into their business too much and want to be involved in everything their husbands do. With my wife sometimes...she only cares what I do if it effects her in some way? If she gets what she wants...she could care less what I do? Caring is problematic in general but theres something odd in how this works for me. As a man...I want that space to pursue things of interest and I really don't like it when someone is too interested in getting involved in my "things". Somehow...this kind of works and we don't conflict as long as meet those guidelines?
What I am learning better how to do which is the real problem it seems...is to set boundaries with her. She does not like boundaries or restriction on her....but could care less if I have any which makes that impossible to live with sometimes.
But the thing is....I'm pretty independent and mostly pretty confident ( not as much arrogant but just sure of myself mostly ) Enough to take some hits and be flexible...and I have that going for me. I can be alone during her withdrawals and be just fine. I can also live with some rejection as long as it doesn't interfere with what I need to do. This is the biggest problem to date and that....I'm working on with her.
What this has forced me to do in reality....is to do the things that I'm inherently weak or not very good in doing which by itself...is a positive goal to work on.
As I'm finishing this and thinking about what I need to get some skills in doing in order to work with her and myself at the same time?
Speak directly and forcibly in as few words as possible. She hates to be told anything...but she's going to have to get over that part. Asking doesn't work with her.....telling (bluntly as she does with me) "I'm doing this...and not leaving a lot of room for negotiation." lol
She is a my way or he highway kind of person....but two can play at the game to equal it out. That may sound like bad advise to some but with our situation...and with Einstein's Special Relativity going on....this is unique situation....and the mother of invention is need...and creatively is the answer.
That...I have gobs of and some left over. lol
As I said so long ago when my intuition was telling me something.....
"Nice shoot'in soldier....but two can play at that game"
The defense rests ;)
J
Too much analyzing
Submitted by Karinda on
Sometimes trying to understand another person, or a relation, is just a dead end. Analyzing, seeing a therapist - you can do that forever and nothing will change.
At some point it's time to let go and realize: me and my partner are who we are, always will be and this won't work. No matter how much effort I put in analyzing my own person, and my partner's.
Just my own experience. Best wishes.
Done Deal....Analyzings Over
Submitted by kellyj on
Thanks for the encouragement Karinda. The odyssey's over....I've made through alive! lol Update: As of last night now I know the "how" part in a compassionate way. My moment is over and I've better than ever. What can I say. After two years of this non stop and trying to figure out what I was doing wrong? Last night I said.."Hey....we only get into fights when I bring certain topics. (it's true) Thinking...I'm the one who needs to communicate my ADHD stuff right? Wrong. Now I know why?
Here's the list of things that are off the table for now and really have been the only times we've got into trouble but of course....she's not very forth coming? -no psychological discussions.
No ADHD talks (for now)
- no deep topics (as I already figure out already
-no "negative shit" This was the one I had to laugh at which also includes deep topics. I'm going.."what do you mean...."negative shit"?
I finally got it out of her. "Negative shit is".....anything philosophical, anything political, anything allegoric with a deep message where there's a good guy and bad guy in them and ....no critical thinking!!!! (about anything which is analyzing and problem solving out loud or with her )
No devils advocate, no second guessing or bouncing things off her in that way.
No satire (and of course sarcasm even for fun or being factitious )
No "silly humor"
No comparisons
And that's pretty much it. lol
I told her...."Okay....no problem. I have to apologize to you for not understanding you earlier....but "negative shit" doesn't correlate to these things you know? It really wasn't computing. I mean....to think critically....you've got something negative in there somewhere right.....or it wouldn't critical thinking????"
Now I know...( and without saying so....I now see clearly the minimizing and what that was all about. Along with being contrary....along with the projection....along with the dismissing...along with everything!!!!) LOL
She said 'I don't care what you call it...."just no negative shit." LOL
Suddenly....there's smile on her face again and she laughing and has totally lightened up.
BAM. Like....right NOW!!!
Negative shit huh? Oh well? Hey Negro....that's all you had to say:) (that's a phrase..it's not RACIST!!! We both have ADHD so at least where I'm from it doesn't matter which race you are....is still means the same thing. My African American friends don't see to mind? They get it. Is that wrong?LOL
J
What I meant
Submitted by Karinda on
I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. What I really meant was that a relation shouldn't be a constant struggle. When you are right for each other it's easy and strengthening to be together. No walking on eggshells. No trying to please all the time.
When you fight you sort it out quickly.
If you are right for each other, you know it from the beginning. And if you're not, no therapy or endless analyzing will change that.
I have experienced both kinds of relations and am convinced that there is no use trying to change a person. Not even yourself.
(Live in Scandinavia, hence the broken English...)
Best wishes
Karinda.....You Make a Very Good Point
Submitted by kellyj on
I do understand what you are saying. I have come to find an interesting thing when it comes to people and relationships. You didn't say if you had ADHD or not but in context, I'm assuming your the non-ADHD partner if I'm correct?
Having ADHD myself....and having been in a number of relationships where I was drawn and attracted to different women in my life...there is some truth in what you are saying about the beginning of the relationship an being right for each other. There is an attraction and a sense that you have met someone who is just right for you and everything is fine and you can't see yourself with anyone else. It's so perfect and you get along and it seems right. You get along....you share the same interests and you have fun together plus that attraction. You're drawn to them by a chemical reaction and you fall in Love with them and that feeling is overwhelming. Much of that has to do with the fact that this initial part of the relationship is being reciprocated and this person is showing the same things to you. You feel great because this person is so interested in you and it makes you feel wonderful to have someone who you have this attraction to....feel the same way about you. It's Love you say...and it feels wonderful....right? Both people are trying to impress each other and putting their best foot forward....of course. You're honored to feel special and this special person is reciprocating. Everything feels right and you know this by that feeling this gives you. Everything IS...fun and games at first because play is a big part of any relationship and having fun and good times is a way of feeling each other out and the focus is on each other. I have come to understand about how intoxicating my hyper focus early on my past partners must have felt to them. I was not trying to deceive or act differently than I've ever have been and when I hyper focus...I can be pretty intense. This intensity I have come to find...is something that can be the very thing or very reason that draws women to me which makes that intensity that I feel...even greater when mirrored back to me and wow.....what a feeling!!! It's marvelous! It's almost like a drug that you crave and only want more of. That right there...is a feature of meeting a person like me who has ADHD and without awareness of this right from the beginning....this can be the thing that makes you feel like it's so right....right from the beginning as you mentioned. This is ADHD that is causing this....not you the person. It works both ways as I'm saying this and is a phenomenon of having ADHD.
In my experience (at 59)...I've come to learn that this is somewhat deceptive and actually can mislead you to believe many things that are not true. I'm saying this since I'm the one who has ADHD and this is my experience. And each time this has happened in the past....it did not work out the way that I initially thought it would? Things changed and changed rapidly and suddenly...both people feel disillusioned and feel like the rug just got pulled out from underneath you. I say both....people can feel this way including the person who has ADHD.
Commonality in interests and things you like to do is important...that much is true. If you are doing fun new things all the time that you've never done before...this may feel exciting and new. What an adventure! And for me...being the adventure guide with so many experiences and different things that interests me....I'm sure that must be an exciting thing for most of the women in my past. I can't blame them in one respect..for being attracted to me just for this reason alone. I'm fun....no doubt about it. I can take you for a ride...you won't soon forget in more ways than one. I have never doubted that much and have always tried to capitalize on it thinking this is a good thing and something the other person wanted. Without trying to deceive anyone including myself...the effects of this kind of mirroring is not telling you the truth. No one is deceiving anyone of trying to be deceptive...but when the hyper focus wears off and (me the ADHD person) needs to direct that focus in others ways to make a living and do things for yourself to make you feel balanced...as the many posts about this subject report.....the person on the other side of this feels hurt, abandoned and feels like you have changed.
In reality....I didn't change at all,..my behaviors did due to the effect of hyper focus and my ADHD. If someone falls in Love with my ability to hyper focus on them and wants that feeling forever and to have that again....that becomes almost impossible for me to ever give that to them. It's not me they want....is my hyper focus which is the same as saying it's my ADHD.
From the beginning that you say....."you know it".....this is "what you know" and this is not starting out...on the right foot. If you start out on the "wrong foot" even if it feels right ....you will be walking on egg shells and using the wrong foot to do so. Walking on eggs shells in essence....being afraid and timid and always be on guard in making the wrong move.....right?
If I have learned anything from the failures of my past....I can pass along how I approached things with my wife this time to show you what I did differently and what I was looking for. Intuitively or instinctually or both....I was usuing a different set of criteria and looking for different things this time.
Instead of using my past as my means to find a partner....I was usuing more of what I would call....a "kinship" as my means to place the feeling I've been usuing and searching for in a partner. A "kinship" is different...than what I just described before. A "kinship" is a feeling and a rather subtle one at first. It's looking for something similar...instead of the intensity of usuing opposites as the attraction. There isn't that magnetic pull that happens with opposites and that first amazing "falling in Love" feeling is not really the same or is actually even there at all.
I didn't...."fall in Love" with my wife in that respect this time. I was actually repelled in some ways by her behavior as she mirrored me back..........( again.....Mirrored ME back )....... and this did not feel right at all to me at first. This was a troubling experience and something that in my past...I would have immediately discounted as not Love so I would have moved on past and dismissed that person entirely. That big spark and that big hit to my ego just wasn't there...and my ego was telling me..."hey you....you aren't getting what you want here"...to myself that is.
But using that and looking past what my ego was telling me.....I (not my Id or ego ) was looking for "kinship" as in a person of family and a feeling of acceptance not attraction.
What is that everyone keeps saying....."acceptance...acceptance...acceptance!!!!!"
What my feeling of "kinship" was seeking was acceptance....and acceptance was what I felt when my wife and I were first together. Tolerance is a huge part of acceptance in this way....and tolerance is what a person with ADHD needs most of all.
By using my instincts and seeking this kind of acceptance....meeting another person with ADHD even without knowing it....was seeking the same thing in a person who needs the same thing in return. I could feel the kinship and the commonality and of being of the same kind and these were extremely important qualities to me now that I say this....even without being able to pin point them exactly and speak about them and say this is what I want.
So no....what you are saying my be true for you and you know it right from the beginning. What felt wrong in the beginning for me...was actually the right thing that my intuition was telling me. Instinctual....I was seeking for this kind of "kinship" and using my instinctual need for family and belonging rather than fun, excitement and "falling in Love."
The truth be told.....my wife is a royal Pain In the Ass!!! OMG!!!! She drives me crazy sometimes!!! Even in the beginning....this was sooooo annoying. She could get on my nerves really fast and had some rather peculiar behaviors and quality traits that both hurt and really pissed me off at times....even right at first. My ego was definitely....not being stroked I can tell you. There were times yes....but my ego was needing to take a back seat and see what was what for a while. This wasn't "right".....this was "wrong" as my ego was telling me....my ego was saying..."this is the wrong person for you....you are not getting built up and paid attention to and I want what I want!!! I want to feel Loved and I want that excitement....show me the Love and make me feel like you Love me".....that's what my ego was saying.
Make me feel Loved!!!! If this is what you did and what your doing....then be careful what you ask for? You'll get it and all that comes with it.
As I'm saying this to you Karinda.....I didn't listen to my ego....I was using my intuition and ignoring the rest. What I got was acceptance but not a lot of tolerance but now this has to be considered. Tolerance for someone with ADHD and OCD is a difficult thing to master or gain a lot of. Again....OCD and ADHD ARE not the person. As I see and feel my wife and see her as the person....I feel the kinship...and I see the intolerance. Then what's the problem here.....her or the intolerance that she feels is me...but actually coming from her obsessions and having ADHD?
I hate my own ADHD as a disability only....I don't hate myself for having it....see what I mean?
In the same way....my wife can be intolerable sometimes and just plain miserable to be around...but her OCD behaviors are the reason for this for me. She's feels miserable because of what this does to her...but gets confused that it's me who makes her miserable. I can't make my wife "feel" anything. That is impossible. If may come from having ADHD and actually...those things and qualities in the positives are the things that feed the "kinship" feeling I have for my wife. True or real Love and acceptance and one that grows comes from a feeling of belonging and "kinship" and a feeling a family....not what your ego is telling you and it's not all fun and games.
I'm as big a pain in the ass if not more for my wife....the only thing different between the two of us is she's in denial...and hasn't got this figured out yet. On my behave and what I know of myself....my wife might not understand this yet fully.....but I may have been the answer to her dreams....yet her dreams are telling her the wrong thing.
Time will tell but my feelings are spot on here. The truth be told....I was never walking on egg shells with my wife.....I was meeting the Dragon head on and fighting the good fight the whole time even right from the beginning.
My wife might tell you that it's me who's been fighting her...but that's only because I'm "here" and she is still "behind" me and needs some catching up....that's all.
Does that mean she's not right for me or that since it wasn't right ....right from the beginning that confronting her Dragon and not giving up means that she's not right for me? I say no....and this is why I say this. If I didn't Love her....I wouldn't even try....but what I Love most of all is the eternal feeling of belonging and "kinship" I feel....the same as it would be with my own sisters or family member who.....if you think about it.....do you always Love you siblings who your lived with and grew up with ALL the time?
I think if you expectations of another person are going to be in the realm of reality and what is possible...you need to look at what is not possible and look for what is?
Within the realm of possibilities.....imagination and creativity is far greater than knowledge itself. I've heard that said somewhere before.....but can't really place who said it at the time???? ( I'm being factitious here just so you know :)
And best wishes to you too. I really hope you find what ever you are looking for in your relationship as well:)
J
"Old Ugly".....A Passing Thought and Remberance
Submitted by kellyj on
I had an attorney for my business who I actually met...through my piano teacher when I was in elementary school because this man was her husband. This woman is a fine accomplished musician and pianist and performed regularly for the local symphony (at that level ) and was a really nice woman. Smart and very patient and quite nice to me and very nurturing....and in her own right....quite attractive but not a Super Model by any means. She had a calm and rather unpretentious disposition and a self confidence that showed through and a woman you might never know just how good a pianist she really was or for that matter...any real "talents" at all from seeing her in the role of being a house wife and mother. I was pretty lucky to have her as an instructor though...I was more interested in playing drums and guitar that piano but my mother was pretty insistent due to her own musical training and back ground in wanting me to learn piano first. Good call on my moms part on that one too.
Anyway....later....her husband I contacted because of this relationship and I had met him when I was growing up and he was a business contract lawyer. And to the point....one day I was sitting in his office and we were talking about something unrelated and he said...."I've got to ask "Old Ugly" first...before I make my schedule."( he had a good sense of humor too )
In how he said this....I knew he was being factitious....but he also said this is what he calls her right to her face.
I can't really tell you how I knew this exactly.....but to me and the impression this gave me....that Love was the reason he said this and why she accepted it. They had a bond that went beyond a simple label or definition...and in defiance of any label......"Old Ugly" was saying I Love you and showing he did.(obviously...she had a good sense of humor too )
I'll never forget that....but I knew what he meant. I just loved that one...."Old Ugly"...and thought that was so meaningful as saying.....it doesn't matter if your "Old" and "Ugly".....I'm no spring chicken and nothing to look at myself. Neither one were actually true for either one of them except their age at the time....but the expression and the endearment and the Love that they shared came through and that's what I knew at the time.
J
PS...Karinda
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm 1/2 Swedish/Norwegian....my mothers side of the family. My best friends wife is also from Sweden and I love her accent. Take care :)
J
Oh how I wish
Submitted by Karinda on
I could answer you in my own language! There is so much I would like to explain, but it takes forever for me to express my thoughts iin English. :-|
For now: everything you write about infatuation and hyperfocus is true.
(I am the non, I am 57 and married to a non-man. Earlier I had a six year long relation with a man with ADHD.)
At my age, you know that infatuation wears off, and it is much easier to see the red flags early on, I think.
Will write more as soon as I have the time.
Til then: Thank you for your interesting answer.
You're Welcome Karinda
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted only to interject one thing into your thoughts am I'm not wanting to sound contrary or dismissive either. I'm saying that in fear that I have really picked up some of these qualities from being exposed to my wife and I've begun to see that come out of my sometimes as of late. This is not...as I'm saying it....normal for me.
There are some things I needed to "know" about my wife and her behaviors and where they came from that were really disturbing to me. The main one that started this thread was the "Dissmissive" part of her insecurities.
As it's been said....."Dissmissives" can be serial monogamists and just move from one relationship to another...but they're always the ones who "leave" first.
In my past history....I've been on the other side of this and been the who's been left. Mostly true except when I was yonger and not wanting to be tied down and just dating and experimenting with relationships and this was kind of normal at the time. I made to illusions about wanting to get married and the women I was with were the same way with me. Or if they wanted more...they would leave. I left...and they left...and this went on until I decided to get married and settle down.
But in my past with marriage....I was left and didn't want my ex's to leave. Part of this was my own insecure attachement...."anxious preoccupied"...whish as it did play out for me that I am also very aware of...."I stayed TOO long and should have left out of fear or that insecurity that was in fear of losing something and never getting it back again. These two "characters" are at extreme opposites of one another. One afraid to stay...and one afraid to leave. This kind of co-dependent "dance" is a bad one I can tell you. Bad for both people and usually the "Dismissive" is the one to leave.
A "Dissmissive" as termed as an insecure attachment...will usually be the one leaving and usually not see themselves as the problem and see the other person as the problem and say "I left because of them".
Usually. By the "book" or the pattern itself.
My wife has told me of this in her past and recognizes this in herself to a certain degree. It's taken me a while to truely understand what is at the heart of this issue and insecurity is the problem as I see it.
My wife is older now and she's seeing her own extinction looming in front of her and feels "time is running out". Coming to face her own extinction....has sobered her thinking about this from her past and she admits this openly and I do believe her. I see this in myself too...but I came to our relationship with all that therapy, knowledge and understanding myself and to a certain degree....my ADHD and knowing what my own insecurities were....from the day I met my wife and that much was completely different than my past...as a man with ADHD.
The point of interjecting this is only to comment on your past experience with men with ADHD. If had been the man I was in the past with ADHD without this ahead of time....then I could be compared to anyone with ADHD who did not have this kind of awareness. Just saying....it's this awareness ahead of time that makes all the difference. I had it from the get go....before I actually met my wife.
The thing that counter balances this is being secure myself. My security...can pull my wife insecurities in my direction as long as I hold true to what I believe and not allow her insecurities to move me in her direction. That line in the sand that I've drawn and am not going to allow that to happen. That line in the sand comes from my inner strength to pull her to me...and not allow her to pull me to her. If there is a Dragon being fought against on my end.....it's her insecurities. Her insecurities will kill our relationship not mine since for the most part....I'm pretty secure in who I am...and I know what I want. What I don't want....is a co-dependant relationship which is kind of a hall mark of being in one with an ADHD person who has not done what I've done. I've got to be the rock...and she's got to be more like water and move to me. In the past....I've been the water to a "dissmissives" rock...and I was the one who moved. Move that is...right into co-dependency. No way....no how....will that ever happen again. My wife's...rock hard "dismissive" ways need to be broken down so she can become more like water and become fluid and flexible like me. Metaphorically speaking.....I've got to be the sledge hammer and break that rock to peices ( in a matter of speaking only is you follow me here ).
Just so you know if that makes any difference? I take no offense at anything you've said and I don't think you've been harsh at all. I guess if I didn't know this before....that might have been a "harsh" awakening for me?
No problem. I am interested in hearing anything and learning from your experiences. Any insights you provide I can only see of value and I appreciate your input. Please...feel free when you get those words sorted out. I can imagine...that might be frustrating?
Thanks
J
PS As said in the Yoga Sutra...."the great mistake...is not seeing what truly is...and the way things really are." The second mistake is "allowing the mind to turn which prevents us from seeing." There you go....I'm working on this as we speak.
Update: What Happens IS......THIS
Submitted by kellyj on
WHY ALL THE ANALYZING? There's a good reason for me...at least for myself that is.
I'm done analyzing since I've nailed down what's going on with my wife and I. It's taken me years of practice and learning about this topic and I there is a very good reason for me to do what I did here with everyone witnessing. It may not makes sense to anyone reading this....but it makes perfect sense to me.
This attachment theory is tricky business and it's not that easy to understand unless you can understand it for yourself first. I can finally say I do and I am confident enough to say so. I can see these things in me and I'm sure of what I'm seeing.
Part of the reason for going through what I did was to see these things and keep track of them since....they were changing in me. It took me until now for that to come back to center again and I can by the way it feels.
Starting out as an earned secure from being the anxious preoccupied insecure...it was weird what I was noticing since....I was noticing something else instead this time compared to the past. You have to be able to see yourself in the past to know where you were then compared to now.
My therapist (who taught me how to do this in part) relies and believes heavily on this and he mixes CBT, with other strategies to combine them into a combination approach to therapy. I think he a good one since I've found that he rarely is off base except for the only part he can't know. When you changed or moved....things will reshuffle again at a different time or with a different person.
You always take you with you where ever you go (you are the control and the fixed constant in this chemistry experiment)...and even though you may feel different with another person....YOU are effecting a change in them too. The more insecure you are to start with...the more insecure your new partner will be.
The level of insecurity you have to begin with will be responsible for the actions and behaviors (that come from them becoming more insecure with you. I repeat....the level or your own insecurity will cause changes in your partners insecurity and that will bring on behaviors and actions that might not have been there in the beginning of your relationship whether you realized this or not.
As much as you might say....they changed.....you changed too and that's what you feel. They didn't do this to you.....your own insecurities and activations systems became enacted and you started to feel more insecure because it.
I repeat.....YOUR insecure activation system....kicked in from your partner insecurities which is what engaged them. When that happens......IT'S ALL YOU, AND ALL IN YOUR HEAD. Literally
In a perfect world where you are invincible to insecurities....this wouldn't happen. You would stay the same no mater how insecure your partner became or no matter what they did. You wouldn't feel any differently...but you may not like what you see?
To a lessor degree,...this happened to me...but my insecure activation system...was getting tested and tweaked severely.
The odd thing this time around....I was becoming more of what my wife was mirroring back to me and behaving more like she was. That's still insecurity on my end...but I could tell something wasn't right. Was not right however....was because it was different than before and went in a different direction.
I can't begin to even tell you how I knew this. It took years with my therapist (17 years ) to get to know myself this well. At this time however.....I know it well enough to say so directly:
Thinking this is some new age hokey pokey and is not real,....is like saying the world is flat and believing that instead of what you think you believe.. That's how far advanced the world of psychology has become and the only reason why they say theory...is it cannot be proven by empirical data. None the less....if you believe in God and you can't prove it....I'd argue that as a means to see this information as something very real with having that proof.
If you believe me....well then,....I'm your proof right here. The reason to come and explain myself and everything I've done here without having a good way to say so since I was just going on a feeling. This is comes from our insecurities and that's the feelings you need to listen too in order to learn how to do this for yourself (with some help...
.I doubt most could do it without a professional there to guide you and teach you how ie: an independent witness who knows what they're seeing. Also saying...what I did and why....probably wouldn't work with everyone in fact...I could almost guarantee it. That's why, if you look at this stuff and think it's a bunch of baloney...then you're probably a good candidate for it not working with you. Just my observation not a criticism.
So...here the deal. Starting out with the thoughts. You ard you're own worst enemy when you think these things because they will become true....just by thinking them. Self fulfilling prophecy ( you did this to yourself and didn't even know it )
Anxious-preoccupied Thoughts
Mind reading: That’s it, I know s/he is leaving me.All or nothing thinking: I knew s/he wasn’t the right one for me, this proves it!
All or nothing thinking: I’ve ruined everything, there’s nothing I can do to mend the situation.S/he’s taking over my life, I can’t take it!
S/he can’t treat me this way! I’ll show him/her!Now .
I knew something would go wrong; nothing ever works our right for me.
I have to talk to or see him/her right now.
S/he’d better come crawling back to beg for my forgiveness, otherwise s/he can forget about me forever.When I was with _________ this wouldn’t have happened.
Maybe if I look drop-dead gorgeous or act seductive, things will work out.
S/he is so amazing, why would s/he want to be with me anyway?
Remembering all of the good things your partner ever did and said after calming down from a fight.
Avoidant Thoughts
I knew s/he wasn’t the right one for me, this proves it!
I knew I wasn’t made to be in a close relationship.
.S/he’s taking over my life, I can’t take it!
I have to do everything his/her way; the price is too high.
I feel suffocated.
If s/he was “the one”, this kind of thing wouldn’t happen.
When I was with _________ this wouldn’t have happened.
.Malicious intent: S/he’s really out to annoy me, it’s so obvious…
S/he just wants to tie me down, this isn’t true .
Fantasize about having sex with other people.
Ugh, s/he’s so needy! Its pathetic.
Remembering only the good things about the person after the fight
Remembering only the bad things about your partner said during the fights
(black and white thinking)
Emotions
Anxious-preoccupied
Sad Angry
Fearful
Resentful
Frustrated
Depressed
Hopeless
Despairing
Jealous
Hostile
Vengeful
Guilty
Self loathing / Restless
Uneasy
Humiliated
Hate filled
Uncertain
Agitated
Rejected
Unloved
Lonely
Misunderstood
Unappreciated
Avoidants Emotions
Withdrawn/Frustrated
Angry
Pressured
Unappreciated
Misunderstood
Resentful
Hostile
Aloof
Empty
DeceivedTense
Hate-filled
Self-righteous
Contemptuous
Despairing
Scornful
Restless
Distrustful
Anxious behaviors
Act out attempt to reestablish contact at any cost
Pick a fight
Wait for them to make the first reconciliation move
Threaten to leave
Act hostile—roll your eyes, looks disdainful
Try to make him/her feel jealous
Act busy
Act busy or unapproachable
Withdraw—stop talking to your partner or turn away from him/her physically
Act manipulative
Avoidant Behaviors
Act out
Get up and leave
Belittle your partner
Act hostile, looks disdainful
Make critical remarks
Withdraw mentality or physically
Minimize physical contact
Keep emotional sharing to a minimum
Stop listening to your partner. Ignore him/her.
Anxious/preoccupied behavior
Act out attempt to reestablish contact at any cost
Pick a fight
Wait for them to make the first reconciliation move
Threaten to leave
Act hostile—roll your eyes, looks disdainful
Try to make him/her feel jealous
Act busy
Act busy or unapproachable
Withdraw—stop talking to your partner or turn away from him/her physically
Act manipulative
Avoident Behavior
Act out
Get up and leave
Belittle your partner
Act hostile, looks disdainful
Make critical remarks
Withdraw mentality or physically
Minimize physical contact
Keep emotional sharing to a minimum
Stop listening to your partner. Ignore him/her.
Possible Attachment Principles at Play
Anxious Principles At Play
Protest behaviour
Activating strategies (any thought, feeling or behaviour that will result in an increased desire to reconnect)
Putting your partner on a pedestal
Feeling small and inferior in comparison to your partner
Seeing/remembering on the best in your partner after a fight (while forgetting his/her negative side)
Mistaking an activated attachment system for love
Living on a relationship roller-coaster, addicted to the highs and lows
Deactivating strategies
Mistaking self reliance for independence
Avoidant Principles at Play
Inflating your own importance and self esteem while putting your partner down
Seeing only the negative in your partner and ignoring the positive
Assuming malicious intent in your partners actions side note: WTF...who the Hell are you talking too? lol
Disregarding you partners emotional cues
Yearning for the one that got away
Fantasizing about “the one”
Repressing loving feelings and emotions
Sooooo. If this is you and you fit into these two (there are others). That's what happened to you. You were 1/2 to blame for your part in your relationship even though your insecurities were saying it was your partner who did it to you. He/She made me this way. No they didn't. Your insecure activation system did it to you.
The interesting thing for me in all of this....why I came back here after only a week out of it. I can see exactly where I went....why I went there...and why I did what I did. Exactly now based on paying attention, analyzing and documenting my thoughts and behaviors here.
(Thank you for giving me this opportunity Melissa...it was the best education I've ever had!!!!!)
So what I did....I went from secure and started moving back to anxious again....but the was a problem for my wife here and she was a big part of it.
She started out dismissive-avoidant...and then moved to fearful-avoidant which is a mix of these two. OMG what a mess!!!!! That was me in part...when I was a teenager. Talk about moving targets of insecurities!!! WOW Do I understand this one! LOL
And low and behold...the odd thing happened. I started becoming more dismissive avoidance myself with a couple only of my old anxious ones really standing out but not the rest of them at all. That was weird.
As she moved from dismissive to fearful...and I moved from fearful to dismissive but only in part. Only in thought...not action or behavior mostly with my moments. Those were my moments I kept talking about but I didn't stay that way. But emotionally....I was moving and swinging and trying to get my balance again.
My wife wasn't swinging...she was disillusioned. She had never been with someone who wasn't more insecure than she was so that threw her for a loop!!! Hence...the anxious / avoidant / fearful mix started to emerge and now she didn't know what to do?
If you want to bother...to go look at my past posts over time....you'll see these things exactly coming in all of the posts and how it changed or time. You'll hear it in the things I said about my wife. And you'll hear it from me and can watch the shift occur over time and how I changed from when I first came here.
If you doubt this for a second....go back and read my posts. I have no need to because I was watching myself change. I couldn't explain it or say where I was...because I was continuously moving back and forth and trying to stay centered. I was moving with my wife...and then in the opposite direction and then I cam back home again since my wife has stabilized some herself with a little help from our therapist and me.
I may have not know exactly what to do....but I was going by feel only and what I felt I should do along the way.
It may not have been the best way to go ....or always knowing the best way to deal with it....but I did deal with it...and I didn't let this go without doing something.
What I found the worst thing to do always....is nothing and at least I did something? I give myself credit there where credit is due.
I did that because I learned the hard way what happens when you do nothing and so something was better than nothing...even if I didn't always know the right wat to do it.
There you go.
Now you Know:)
Thanks again for all your patience and putting up with me....I couldn't have done it without this forum as the crucible to work from and I appreciate everything and all the support in my efforts and my journey. This was my own hero's journey so to speak and I think I made it back Okay? We'll see. Something in the way I feel...tells me it will be:)
J
PS That line in the sand I wasn't going over and wasn't budging? This was it...going into either one of these attachment styles which I worked so hard to get out of. I still need a little tweaking here and there....but I'm never going back!!!! NEVER!!! lol
Reading this, J
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
J, you know I read what you write, though I'm not always active posting.
In your post to which this responds, you bring up the intense effect of one partner's disposition of mind on that of the other partner, in a long term, intimate, live in relation.
I believe that this strong possible effect of one partner's habits of mind on the other partner is there in these relations. I don't think the word picture captures it all, but I've used the picture of a sword blade to describe really intensive daily relationships. Not the cutting edges of the sword, the thinness of it and its extended surface. One side of the sword is not detached from the other side; in fact one side has a great deal of shared surface with the other side. Once on this site I used the word picture of a piece of paper. The two sides are different, with their different contents, but are not detached from each other. What one does on one side cannot not affect the other side, one's partner. I'm not 100% sure that it's true, but I've said to myself, using this two sides of the sword picture, that there's no way in an intimate relation that a couple can stand pat, and just be in a steady state, with no change; the two sides are interacting to build the pair up; or the two sides are interacting to break the pair down. Again, I'm not sure of my absolutist language there; in fact as I go on in years, I appreciate it taht the days are full of the ordinary, of ups and downs, of trials and errors....so it's not so simple as today I build up or break down myself and intimately affect my partner for worse or for better. Life has a lot of grey stuff and "it just is" in it, and that can be good in its way.
But I'm totally with you on the matter of observation and perception of the intimate dynamic being key to relation, perhaps because of the way my own mind works related to my actions plus perhaps some general similarities that you and I have found in our life work generated by what was done to us as children.
I do think it's been pretty well proven that human beings do often come to either take on, or adopt diametrically opposite attitudes and behaviors , when they're in intimate contact with each other. The taking on someone else's attitude seems to be a slam dunk. We see preteens, once they find their "packs" their age, go into groupthink and group driven behavior. What a coach is about is instilling values, vocabulary and acts in a whole team, so that it acts as one, it's not a pack of independent minded players each playing his/her own strategy. I think intimate pairing also produces diametrical opposites, or can, where one does X, the other persistently does Y.
I think people get the work of changing for better done in different ways. There's not one size fits all. For some, fake it until you make it is the way to go, most often, that one works on changing patterns of actions, which themselves bring about change of attitude. For others, like I take you to be, after your 17 years of therapy, which gave you practice in mental interior observation, the thing is to look and think, look and think, until you find to your best discovery what the core intimate dynamic is, at the level of mind, presuming mind produces action.
That's generally what I apply to myself as well. In fact as usual for me, keeping most of the details offline, I've just fairly recently cracked the code, or come much closer to cracking it, regarding some unresolved sadness and grieving in me that was catalyzed in the years before my husband and I married. I had to work it through, like you have done, using writing on this site. In my case, it didn't arise from the sword blade. It didn't come from my partner's attitudes and behaviors with me, although I admit that the extra isolation in relation I have felt, because I get much less feedback from him on a daily basis, about anything to do with me if you like gave me a bigger echo chamber in which something unresolved was affecting me. But I had, like you had to, find where the dynamic was going on, and as far as I can tell from what you wrote, did it roughly similarly to you, with mentation, introspection, attending to what others said about themselves in their partnerships. It wasn't the two sides of the blade. In fact, here's a shout out to my partner. For all of our very human ways, he is consistent with himself; in his own life has thought his way through to what he values, and through it all has been faithful to his values, with me and with others. So he has been my bright light... No, it wasn't his attitudes tugging me into similarity with him, or into moving into diametric opposite thinking/acting, to counterbalance him.
I needed that first piece, to be able to find what context, what interactions with whom mattered to the beginning of such a long dark period of sorrow. There are other relationships, each with their two sides of the blade. It did require this kind of rumination, and for me, replay and analysis of memory of words and interactions. I'm like you are: once one SEES with better clarity what the intimate dynamic is, one is released into new action.
I'll sign off on this post of appreciation to you with just this about my word picture of the sword or piece of paper with two flat sides that are not detached from each other:
You at times have written with much more certainty than I would write, that you can see your wife's interior mind. I do believe that intimate relations show very very much of the other person. I for one don't ever expect that I will write with confidence that I know my husband's mind. For me, the best that I can do is ask him, listen to him, and believe him....since he's able to tell the truth and does. He's my source. Your wife as you've described her is at this point in her life not inclined and/or accomplished in the kind of self description that a patient receiveing years and years of therapy develops. So I can't draw an analogy between my husband's ability to name his interior self...which he had to develop because he had to handle his ADHD long before the diagnosis existed, let alone treatment of it let alone coaching in it. He either found himself and learned to make it in the environment at large, or he wasn't going to eat or have shelter. So he's a different person than your wife is, in ability to self describe, and yes I can straight out ask him, listen, and believe that he's naming himself...he's the expert, not me the observer of him.
Second, no matter how close and daily, I don't think one person can know the interior mind of another because on the whole, no matter how analytical, human beings cannot read minds. I did my work on this one dealing with Asperger's, in which there is real mind blindness, due to neurological inability to read facial gestures, physical behaviors. While according to mirror neuron theory, which only some these days take as the key to anything, people with mirror neurons possess a vastly better ability to theorize what the mental and other wise interior content of people is than do people on the autism spectrum, in fact people not on the spectrum fail mightily in discerning what's going on inside a perosn with AS who for example, has a meltdown, or who must hypercontrol people around him or her.
I very strongly believe for myself, that the closest I can come to having a reliable sense of what's going on in my partner is an improved guess, that fits with his consistencies of behavior and speech. That's it. And I think I'm a people watcher, and do mull what I see about them. Yes, one does have to get one's best working guess about what's happeingin in one's partner, but we can never feel like we're in the god position of absolute certainty. And I think that less than absolute certainty about the interior life of my partner is healthy for me.
Speaking as a non, living with an adorable man with ADHD, and reminding you of what some of your friends on this site have written about what they're living at home, there can be a tendency of a person with a strong personality, such as you write to me and suggest that you have (and long live your strong personality) coupled with a strong tendency to process life through the mind... to lay the contents of that mind on people around him/her and say that THEY are the contents of his/her mind. My husband and I are working on this issue. I bring to the table an earlier relation in which I deferred too much to someone and began to lose pieces of myself....and it took a long time, years, to rebuild myself. So I don't defer when I am told that I am something, and/or am treated as if I'm something; and I'm not.
Even so, my dear husband and I had a long spell in which he had worked it out in his mind that I was a harmful person who meant him ill and (how old is this story line) was operating out of his former wife's mental habits and morality. In other words, his best resources and contexts, for thinking about who I was in our sword blade interaction, was his past life history and his past thinking about someone else. There were other parts of the early situation taht I'll leave off line.
I can tell you, J, while everything lined up and fit together in his mind it was NOT ME. I'm my own bundle of strengths and weaknesses, not that. It is, on best days, a pain in the patoot to be treated consistently and pressed toward interaction with him, in terms of his expectation of someone else (who treated him like crap). We didn't get better on this one for awhile. I just guarantee that his theory of me was not taking in much of me in the present; he was filtering everything I did or didn't do through a lens that he got from somewhere else than me, and he DIDN'T ASK ME QUESTIONS OR BELIEVE MY STATEMENTS ABOUT MYSELF.
All I can say is that in my twenties, thirties and forties, I would have buckled to that, and either absorbed his off base view of me; or started acting diametrically opposite it. Or leave. I likely would have thrown in the towel and gotten the hell away from someone who insisted to my face that I was someone other than myself.
I had nothing to lose with my husband. I've been all the way to the pit. I've been way down after, as a result of bending, in an attempt to keep the peace, to someone else who insisted that the world was his to abuse and take advantage of. I had nothing to lose.
It took a very long time for my ADHD husband to do whatever work he needed to do to see that I was telling him the truth about myself. To this day, I don't know how he did that, although it likely helped that he lived with me day in and day out and heard me say things about myself over and over again and he had the chance to see what my actions were, and to connect my words about myself to my actions. I didn't guide him through the process of shifting to trusting that I was telling the truth about myself. I can't tell you how much better things are for us, day in and day out, that he did this. All I could figure out to do on my own behalf was tell the truth, as best I could, take action, adjust my own boundaries to the new unusual to me relation, and go on.
I didn't have the emotional stamina and opportunity to get back to finding the core dynamic of that old grief that I mentioned until he and I were better, on a daily basis, and I wasn't having to live in a daily wind of suspicion of my words, blowing through them, them being discarded,a nd him treating me like some old enemy that yes indeed he did have in his own life. I'm not his boogey man.
Do you know what would have helped the process along faster? Just speaking for the two of us? He never asked me any questions about myself. Nearly ever. I was telling him who I was from time to time, or when I heard from him that i was shit and I knew I wasn't, saying, no I'm not X, I'm Y. But about 95 to 98% of the time he never asked me what I was thinking, how I evaluated something, how my day was, what my history of growth was as an adult. He didn't ask. This is astonishing. By then, I had the guts, and had nothing to lose, to speak up for myself, once it was clear that he was operating on something in his head related to what part of what I did in the physical world around him that he noticed. But he sure would have helped himself if he had asked, and listened to my answer.
Water under the bridge. My husband and I are at work on things. I've sure needed to pay attention to him, ask him, listen, trust what he says about himself, too. That's a daily need.
The end of the end of this is a hope that you don't stand pat on your present understanding of either your wife's interior life or that sword blade or piece of paper of shared interface that you and your wife have.
Change in relationship is neverending. From what you say, your wife is far from done changing, herself. You, friend, are a man of change and growth.
I so appreciate you.
Now
Now,
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Now,
Your post really hit home for me... this part:
"Even so, my dear husband and I had a long spell in which he had worked it out in his mind that I was a harmful person who meant him ill and (how old is this story line) was operating out of his former wife's mental habits and morality. In other words, his best resources and contexts, for thinking about who I was in our sword blade interaction, was his past life history and his past thinking about someone else."
This is exactly what I *think* my H has done to me. Based on his abusers from childhood. It really seems to me that he has transferred that anger and hopelessness onto me and our marriage.
"I can tell you, J, while everything lined up and fit together in his mind it was NOT ME. I'm my own bundle of strengths and weaknesses, not that. It is, on best days, a pain in the patoot to be treated consistently and pressed toward interaction with him, in terms of his expectation of someone else (who treated him like crap). We didn't get better on this one for awhile. I just guarantee that his theory of me was not taking in much of me in the present; he was filtering everything I did or didn't do through a lens that he got from somewhere else than me, and he DIDN'T ASK ME QUESTIONS OR BELIEVE MY STATEMENTS ABOUT MYSELF. "
This is exactly where I am! He has all of this in his mind, and once he has made up his mind - he doesnt change that for anything. I cannot do anything or say anything that shows him any different. No expert, therapist, doctor, friend, book, article - any of it can convince him of anything other than what he believes to be true - and that is what being filtered through a viewpoint of a small boy, being tortured in ways that are unimaginable by people in his family that were supposed to love him and protect him. Somehow - I believe he has associated the affection and love we are supposed to have in our marraige with THAT horribleness. I know its common with CSA survivors to do this in their marraige, and I know its something that can be overcome IF the survivor does the work. Which is hard at first - kinda like getting up on the elliptical machine for the first time and really pushing yourself FOR yourself. Get up there every day and it gets easier and more encouraging. (sorry - I use this alot as I am focused on bettering myself, and to me - that elliptical is my current challenge!).
"I had nothing to lose with my husband. I've been all the way to the pit. I've been way down after, as a result of bending, in an attempt to keep the peace, to someone else who insisted that the world was his to abuse and take advantage of."
Thats where I am. I have nothing more to loose, nothing more to give. I can only be truthful about who I am, what I want and what I see in my life. I do not want to be in a relationship where he feels he has the right to - consciously or not - to treat me as he does. Its my truth that I cannot continue to survive and be ME in that situation. I am at the point that I will not allow him to put me in the box with those monsters, I will not allow him to make me into something that I am not.
"It took a very long time for my ADHD husband to do whatever work he needed to do to see that I was telling him the truth about myself. To this day, I don't know how he did that, although it likely helped that he lived with me day in and day out and heard me say things about myself over and over again and he had the chance to see what my actions were, and to connect my words about myself to my actions. I didn't guide him through the process of shifting to trusting that I was telling the truth about myself. I can't tell you how much better things are for us, day in and day out, that he did this. All I could figure out to do on my own behalf was tell the truth, as best I could, take action, adjust my own boundaries to the new unusual to me relation, and go on. "
My husband has, over the last 2 weeks really made some significant changes in his behavior (I wish this would have been years ago!!!). I dont know how the change happened, I dont know why it happened. I just know it did. He started stepping up and following through on what he said he would do. Started projects he promised from last year. To say I was astounded is an understatement. I dont know why this change happened - god knows I have begged, pleaded anything for him to get help - not for me, and not for our marriage - but for HIM.... I am extremely proud of him - but I dare not say anything. I dont want to influence him in any way. I just want him to continue to find it in himself to live up to his own word - one little step at a time. For the life of me - what ever has happened, I am scared to death of changing it by pointing it out! I know he is done with me and our life together, but it doesnt mean that I am through with hoping to god he recovers from all the horrors and gains true control of himself. He even started working out again. He has done 2 days on the elliptical. Maybe he is seeing the change in me from stepping up and doing versus talking about it? I dont know. But he literally could not have made a better choice. That work out will give him a sense of accomplishment and it will PROVE to him and those monsters that he can do it. I try to show him how I support him by making sure he has water - a generosity he actually gave to me and inspired me. Little things right? But anyway - I dont know what happened to your husband to find the power in him to put those negative voices aside- but i am so glad he did. And even though my husband is leaving me and our marriage, I do hope that he can finally destroy the monsters in his head and live a good life. He has it all wrong - I never wanted to control him, and I have gone out of the way to make sure I dont - I just want HIM to have TRUE control of himself. 2 very different things.
"I didn't have the emotional stamina and opportunity to get back to finding the core dynamic of that old grief that I mentioned until he and I were better, on a daily basis, and I wasn't having to live in a daily wind of suspicion of my words, blowing through them, them being discarded,a nd him treating me like some old enemy that yes indeed he did have in his own life. I'm not his boogey man."
He and I are not better - but *I* am better. And I will tackle my own grief. And OH MY GOODNESS YES.... the stress of being his boogey man (in his head) is just almost unbearable! And having that accusation at me daily is soul crushing. But I am not longer accepting it. I am no longer going to buy into it. He threatens me of leaving all the time- I have told him that I will not stop him, that I have accepted it. I am focusing on myself and being the best person I can be. And I will not let his negativity and let those monsters define me anymore. I refuse them. I refuse his assumptions of me.
"Do you know what would have helped the process along faster? Just speaking for the two of us? He never asked me any questions about myself. Nearly ever. I was telling him who I was from time to time, or when I heard from him that i was shit and I knew I wasn't, saying, no I'm not X, I'm Y. But about 95 to 98% of the time he never asked me what I was thinking, how I evaluated something, how my day was, what my history of growth was as an adult. He didn't ask. This is astonishing. By then, I had the guts, and had nothing to lose, to speak up for myself, once it was clear that he was operating on something in his head related to what part of what I did in the physical world around him that he noticed. But he sure would have helped himself if he had asked, and listened to my answer. "
My H doesnt and didnt ask either. Its like it doesnt even matter to him. All that matters to him is HIS experience. HIS understanding of things. Nevermind what anyone else has to offer. He surely would be in another place completely had he been open to knowing me truly, and listening to who I am and what I am - instead of assuming all I am here for is a ploy of manipulation. Its really sad... for both of us. He keeps knocking the swords and sheilds away from my hand when all I am trying to do is give them to him so he can fight his own fight.
I have tried so hard to be open to him, to be honest, and to help in any way he was willing. I have asked so many times if there was anything I can do to make what ever easier for him. I have bought him books - hell even bought him a kindle so he didnt have to work hard to find the book and read it. He loves gadgets - he wanted it. I wanted to make help for him as easy as possible. I pointed him to this forum, I pointed him to other forums - for support. We even registered him as a paying member of an abuse forum - so that he could access the private areas for support. He never goes there. He never comes here. I wish he would. Hell, I wish he would reach out to ANYONE for help. He doesnt have to face the monsters right off - he can face himself, learn to mitigate symptoms - NOT FOR ME, NOT FOR US, but for him.... He has to learn he himself is worth it. No one can give him that. He has to earn it in his mind. I think he can though - every time he keeps his word, his word and honor gets stronger. Every time he takes a step on the elliptical - he body gets stronger, the chemicals in his blood get a little more refined and alighned. I want him to keep going. I want him to win. I am not the monsters who want him destroyed.
"The end of the end of this is a hope that you don't stand pat on your present understanding of either your wife's interior life or that sword blade or piece of paper of shared interface that you and your wife have."
This is so important. Its so critical in growing and becoming better yourself. Understanding that standing firm on one stage of change is death to the end goal. You have to keep moving forward and you have to love your spouse AND YOURSELF enough to understand that you cant go from baby steps to climbing Everest in 1 week, 1 month, even 1 year. It takes time, you have to learn, you have to work at it. You have to fail and LEARN. You have to pick yourself up out of the hole you fell in. You have to climb out and move forward or its death to the soul. Its letting the monsters get ground and hold you back from real truth, love and a self control that is empowering versus imprisoning.
I cannot do it for him. I cannot get him out of his hole. He is choosing it and I have to let him. But I cannot stay in it with him anymore. I dont have the stamina to beg anymore. He is making his own choice. He always has, but I can no longer let his choices guide my life - and that is what is different for me. That is my change. I wish it wasnt the case, but it is. And I have to accept it and move forward and walk away.
LOL
Submitted by kellyj on
I do agree with what You said Stacey. I might be able to say this differently so you can understand where I am and how I see things. This does get confusing in my wording but not so much in my own understanding.
There are goals...as in what you are striving for....and then there's the process of getting there. And as I see my wife...she is not my goal. Neither was finding out about something that I clearly saw (even if she didn't) that stood out and was not that hard to see. Knowing what I was seeing and being able to place it (in order to have the proper perspective, compassion and understanding of her...was clearly missing for me. This did not get confused on my end between us together, my personal goals in doing this for myself...and what I wanted to get from it even without having a clear understanding. In other words....the figuring it out part up ( analyzing and searching for answers to this question first..... just knowing just enough to do this....but not keep doing it....was pretty clear to me once I knew. The point....to get to where I am now....and now move back to finding ways that we can avoid problems and actually enjoy each other.
Our perfect day together...was me applying what I learned. That took no time to apply once I knew that...but still not standing still on the part that I need to work on either. There was an immediate problem that was not being resolved in the immediate that kept happening that was threatening our relationship. Back to the point of doing what I did just to get to that point. That hit home hard immediately. I was doing what everyone did with me and I got a taste of that being on the other side. This....I understood in an instant. Applying it....is not hard for me to do. I'm way past that point already and the paradigm shift happened over night for me.
The "how" part was easy once I knew....and it doesn't mean I'm stuck with thinking I actually really know what's going on. Just applying it...in an "as if" scenario...is really all I needed to go from seeing my wife as on the other side of me....and now seeing here on my side "as if" but not knowing exactly? I don't know exactly? Close enough to apply it even if it's not 100% right for now. I think later in time as we go..things will come out on their own without having to do anything but apply this approach without making any definite conclusions? Does that make sense?
I can boil this down easily and apply it to what you said Stacey.. NOT FOR ME, NOT FOR US, but for him.... He has to learn he himself is worth it. No one can give him that. He has to earn it in his mind. I think he can though - every time he keeps his word, his word and honor gets stronger. Every time he takes a step on the elliptical - he body gets stronger, the chemicals in his blood get a little more refined and alighned. I want him to keep going. I want him to win. I am not the monsters who want him destroyed.
She may feel very much like your H and she needs to come to these things on her own. I was and am no different. I don't need to think about this twice to understand it. BUT......treating her like she has that worth above what she actually has of herself... in a genuine compassionate and caring way.....can make it feel like she is worthy and worth it no matter how many times she fails or I see her stumble (even if directed at me lol ) is all I needed to know and apply the "why" and for "what reason?" part to it. I was on that part the day we had our perfect day together. That was a piece of cake to figure out basing it on myself. I don't need my therapist or anyone else to tell me the "how" part and apply what you said Stacey. Saying this not directed at you like you saying this or bringing this to my attention is saying something like you think "I don't know?"
But in respect to asking questions now...and really wanting to know more of the specific behind it...I'm dying to know that part and am now actually very curious? Moving from disturbed and upset and feeling without any control of something I don't understand or know what to do about it....to really really curious and looking forward to finding out more?
In essence...the hard part is over...and now the fun part begins. It already began the other day...and I see no reason why applying this and having that much success right off the bat won't continue for the immediate. What I do know...is what I want (and what I always want from anyone having ADHD ). That's being treated respectfully and with some consideration mostly. I think that "consideration part" is difficult for anyone who has not experienced this exactly.
I on the other hand.....have experienced this part exactly....and that tells me for the moment...exactly what do to. Snap. Like right now!! lol That Love language I want....i can apply exactly as if my wife were me. Done deal...I only needed to know what I know to that point and not go too much further.
But I have thought of Asperger or on that spectrum my self too. There is something qualitatively different about my wife and does not fit what I see in myself? I know so little about applying these things to anyone other than me...and that would take someone trained to do so.
One question that I thought of just the other day...was in the way to work her curiosity into play without saying so out loud.
What I do know for sure is this. She feels "stupid" and she is very sensitive to this. I've known this for a long time and I don't try and make her feel stupid. (barrage her with questions she has no answers for ) I stopped doing that a long time ago.
She is NOT stupid and I have never seen her that way. Common sense however....is a problem especially if I see her doing something in a way that is just going to create a problem. I have been sensitive to this too and just let her go there unless it's really a big one.
For example. Her brother is (now not going to have surgery after all ...doctors are holding off for the time being since the progress has stopped and no need to take that risk until it changes for he worse) But my wife was going to approach him about making his last preparations and funeral plans before the surgery and I was going (to myself) OH NO!!!!!! NO NO NO. Don't DO THAT!!! OMG!!!!!! That was one of those...have to have conversations and a very delicate one with concerns for how my wife might take me saying anything to the contrary.
I just brought up the point of wanting to be as positive for his sake as we could and not introduce anything to do with DEATH...into his thinking. She wasn't very receptive either...not angry....but dismissive again like she wasn't hearing me. I couldn't have thought of a WORSE thing to do in that case but I didn't push...but I subtly broached this in different ways and used some examples of other people indirectly and some positive experiences I've had with motivating people like in sports for example. I had to let that go and couldn't stop her....but I did make her pause to think and just walked away from it. As I've said...she doesn't want to say she was wrong or appear "stupid" so she didn't say anything to me until just the other day.
Just a day or so she came me to and said. " I want to let you know that you were right...I saw what you were saying about talking about funeral plans with my brother and how that would have come across to him?" That's another thing she does all time.....validate that I'm right (as she says it) I could care less....I was more concerned for her brother (my brother in law )
Of course she doesn't want to do anything to cause a negative effect on her own brothers mental state so empathy is not the issue...or lack of caring...or only thinking of herself only. Too much caring and worrying and wanting to help (in this case....her more than her brother..... because of what she just went through with her mother dying....and getting way ahead of herself? Doesn't that sound familiar??? LOL
That part...isn't hard for me to understand. lol But letting her go and not pursuing it and allowing that to soak in...did end up being the perfect thing. It's delicate balance to have to be so careful not to make someone who is really smart....not feel stupid???
You've got to get that firmly planted in your head along with the "admitting your wrong" part since this is not how I see her usually and always have go remember that (a new habit you know?)...which as I see it now.....is like saying "I'm and idiot" and having to admit that.
It was so weird to me at first when I would make self deprecating statements (in humor...calling myself an idiot ) which I do liberally all the time. (something you can't know)
And this was met with a very curious and out of place reaction to me???? Like she felt like I was beating myself up and thinking poorly of myself? It's a joke...and a way of admitting when I screw up sometimes and not making a big deal about it.
That was almost upsetting to her more than not admiting I screw up??...which is not the norm for what I get from others and usually..... just to laugh with me and see the joke and the admission all at once? I've been doing that for so long....I don't even remember when I started doing it. Probably as a kid and being the jester of the family to fit in and make things a joke instead of federal case probably? At least in my family....humor seemed to always work and everyone could laugh at themselves and others at the same time and just see the humor and not make a big deal about it.
Applying this now to my wife and her family however....I didn't see a lot of humor and not many things were actually funny? But what I do know more than anything and what lights my heart up and makes me glow inside...is when I see that little girl inside her come to life with an unmistakable smile of acceptance for something she probably was never accepted for and I gush inside when I see that reaction from her.' I haven't said this before since I was focused on the immediate problems and getting past those first.....but....there is a child like innocence that my wife displays at times that is so unmistakably unbridled joy that comes through in her face....that I can't help but reach out and hug her she since this is so irresistibly genuine...that these are moments I know I've connected with her and these reactions are overwhelming to me.
If there is a goal I have with her in this way...is to find ways to see that face...and use that as my means to tell me if I'm doing it right with her. I hope that updates you better and what I'm shoot'in for. I'm still very curious to find out more for her sake....especially if there is a medication she could be taking and not doing it out of the fear of appearing like something is "wrong".
For her sake as I'm saying this. I tried to get near that indirectly...and I think she could smell something was up and he she imediately shut down. It's a touchy feely thing I guess? But these are my criteria now? I needed to know just that much...in order to do anything like this where before...I was treating her like a non-ADHD person...who was just being completely unreasonable and refusing to understand ME. I couldn't know that either. Back to doing what I did...just to find out with no help on my wife's end?
There are so many questions I have about this now and knowing I can't just jump on my wife and start hitting on these things for now. For now....just having some fun and enjoyment together is the immediate fix to the immediate past problem.
The thing is....I'm as slow on the uptake or slower than my wife.....I can only laugh at myself there too> LOL "Duh"...kind'a goes with me where ever I go too.....it goes with the territory I guess;) lol
There's so much I need to know...but how do you think I can get more help with ideas without specifically knowing exactly "what" that is? Any ideas? The ones I have gotten in context already are good ones to think about...but that Asperger one is something I thought of when she was talking to me about her clients that relates to well who have it. It is part of her job to relate to people like this.
The thing is...i actually was around a group of ?Autism and Asberger teens in association with a friends daughter who was pretty severely Autistic. One of her friends had Asperger ( the only experience I've had in direct contact for she) and she appeared as normal as could be for a while at least. The suddenly...something would come out or her mouth and you went.....oh, I get it."
But that was teenager girl...and that's all I know?
J
Now...I'm Honored From Hearing You Say This
Submitted by kellyj on
You know....we know so very little about anyone here in truth. We are all taking that top down approach and looking at what's wrong and then applying what ever our own experiences are to it, without the benefit of knowing much of anything. At the same time in saying this...there is a lot of things I cannot explain about myself that is a total mystery to me. No one else would see these things as something of importance and probably not give it a second thought....but this is something for me...that like the age old question of why we exist? There is something in the way I was put together (possibly not just ADHD ) that allows me to see things. I mean literally see things that others can't always see very clearly. I'm known this since I can first remember (almost infant toddler ) and I would get these curious comments that made no sense to me. Just observations of my ability to notice things that they didn't notice and it just kept happening over and over. After the first 10,000 times this happens (and me going yeah...what ever?? ) I started to think about this since I thought everyone else was just being nice and paying me a complimenting a more kind of a placating or patronizing way. Honestly...I am being serious here. lol Maybe after another 10,000 times.....I actually stopped and thought about it? LOL Maybe they're being serious???....that never occurred to me.???LOL
I can actually very clearly trace this back that far to Kindergarten when our teacher made a point to send home a picture I drew and she put a bunch of gold stars all over the front of it. I can still picture the picture and what it was. It was a cow...standing in front of a farm and I remember probably why since there was a dairy by our house that my Dad use to take me too...and I had it in my mind at the time...that it was OUR Farm...and those were our cows. lol That's how little I was...and to the point...I was doing that assuming thing even then just from him taking me there. Wait...hold the presses. I have to remember my father again. He was not all bad you know...but he did have that thing where if he knew something...she kind of coveted what he knew and with held that which kind of made him feel like he had something you wanted but he would decide and choose if he would share it or not. Without going down that road again (lol)...he was a practical joker like me in that way. In a more obvious and less malicious way...he use to tell me tall tales that were totally absurd...and wait to see how long it took before I could figure it out. Yes...the was kind of sick pleasure in that going too far...but it was pretty funny at times which I'm sure where my practical joking came from. It was a big part of his entire side of our family to pull fast ones on each other and it was really funny ( even hysterical)at times for that reason alone and it wasn't mean and really out in the open what the intention behind it was. The only problem with that was...sometimes it took me a while to figure it out!! LOL
So yes....I'm still finding these things this many years later and going .God Damn it...he did it to me again!! LOL You could never trust him sometimes to tell you the truth and not think the "game was still on" which for him...it was all the time!!! lol (in a good way too...he could be pretty funny in his own way was long as the joke stayed in his favor. (if you can imagine lol ...mostly annoying for me, not really hurtful. I was in on the joke as well but I knew better than to do it with him )
So yes...back to our farm and the cow picture. When I drew things and what people would say and finally started to see what they were saying...was the amount of detail and accuracy contained in them as my Kindergarten teacher observed. I still remember the picture for the most part and can still see that image in my head to this day as soon as recalled it. I have tried to figure out where all the information comes from? How can I see something once...and draw it like copying it from a book? No one else might think this unusual and I was no Rembrandt as an artist. But for me....this is bordering on disturbing to me sometimes..... that I can see so much detail in a split second and recall it with that kind of accuracy. I remember what I always said when people said..."oh ...I can't draw to save my life...how do you do that so well?"
"Duh....I don't know. I just copy the picture in my head on paper....how hard is that?" There you go...one of those 10,000 moments like this and that was my answer because it was the truth. (still is..nothings changed)
This goes beyond just being an artist...it's almost photographic but I've researched that enough to know that there really is not such thing. I know this too...it's just as close as I can describe it...but I remember describing it that way even when I was a very small child. (no over thinking there I can tell you LOL )
And what I also found out rather quickly...that people didn't always appreciate what I saw...and I again...had no way of understanding why??? lol This is why I said many times I don't judge or have an opinion about things or am not invested in the topic since....this ability doesns't have one (any). Literally. If you and I were to sit at a table and look at a photograph....we could both see the photograph and talk about it openly? Well...if you can see the photograph...and the other person can't...and that picture has them in it in some way and you just say the part of the picture with them in it and they get upset....you figure that one out rather quickly too.....it's not rocket science. lol Part of learning to keep my mouth shut at an early age since this was as I recall....seemingly like ex-ray vision and you just told them what kind of underwear they had on? lol I think you get the point. LOL
But really...I'm not just now thinking about this. I've been thinking about this and why...going all the way back to that time and it's still a mystery to me as to why I can do this. Information, learning, knowledge, facts, figures, opinions, judgments, emotions, feelings or otherwise...have nothing to do with this. Neither is down loading too much information in conversations or anyone saying anything to me. I just see this enormous amount of information in a blink of an eye that goes right past my thinking and get put in my photo album along with the memory of what I saw. This is 100% visual....thinking has nothing to do with it and why I have no judgments or opinions about it and never had to learn to do this. To the point...that it's not even a skill or talent as far as I'm concerned since...that imply I had to work at it or learn it to be able to do it. Putting it another way.....I CAN"T NOT do it. LOL That's actually caused more problems than going the other way.
And as far as I can tell...it has nothing to do with intelligence either. Actually...going the other way. I passed test in school by simply remembering the page and scrolling down in my head to the answer without having any idea the actual lesson or could tell you what the subject was? ( it was like having a cheat sheet in my head or an open book quiz when in reality...it's actually a closed book quiz lol ) I never admitted that back then because of this problem I ran into because of it. Half the time...people thought it was novel to find out I knew what color underwear they had on and that was amusing to them....the other half would be offended in some way and got angry with me? LOL I had a 50/50 chance either way...so mostly....I chose not to share it with anyone and just keep it to myself? Honestly. I've known this as long as I can remember? ( really really well lol )
But this isn't a thinking, feeling processing thing. It by passes that entirely. This is just seeing pictures and seeing them with an amazing amount of detail and accuracy and being able to recall it. In fact...it's sometimes more of a curse than a blessing since.....what goes in.....never comes back out. I can't forget things I want to forget and that right there is sometimes a bigger problem. Those images never really go away just like a photograph in a photo album?
I have no idea why this is? It's not something I had to learn to do as I said. But it's freaky sometimes and not always appreciated by others as I said....and my wife is not different. Not sharing these images isn't a problem and right and wrong has nothing to do with it. That would be like arguing the sky is blue and someone says no it isn't? (thinking silently to myself....well, Okay then ) No need to argue that one but in the past...I use to think....man what an idiot....they think the sky is green not blue. ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!)
So having this permanent infra red night vision so to speak...and since I can see things in the dark and knowing this only pisses people off...I'm pretty aware of that too. But sometimes...I have to speak up or it will cause me to follow the lemmings off of the cliff if I didn't in the past as I said. Sometimes I had to say what I saw to keep myself out of trouble or out of harms way even if the other person got offended since that would include their under wear color at the same time for a different reason....so I did that as sparingly as possible and mostly kept my mouth shut. Metaphorically speaking. No judgment there either? lol
And for the most part....this can't always even be applied to logistical things so it's not an applicable ability and mostly goes "unused" in a lot of useful ways to myself or others except doing Art for example. There is value to to others there....but I get value from this every day I'm alive. Finding a good use for it...and not pissing people off because it seems to be the biggest challenge I've had?
But everything you said about your husband about not asking questions and inquiring about you I find the same thing with my wife as well. She shares the descriptions you just gave me pretty closely...and they apply less to me as well.
Why? I have NO IDEA?? That is....why me this way...and why someone else the other. What I do know however...is I run into problems with my wife over this same thing...and like I said....I'm so use to it and aware of it...that even that's not an issue.
What is an issue however...is when I'm just reporting back what I see (as if asked...what do you see in this photograph ) and then I answer her....she applies everything under the kitchen sink to what I just said...and all I did was answer her question? No opinion. Judgment. Thinking, Processing, over thinking, under thinking,perception, perspective and even conclusions involved.
Like..."what color is the sky?"
"Blue"
How dare you think that of me?
What did I say? LOL (should I have said green? lol )
I'm not even kidding here. It's all it takes sometimes. No hyper focusing, too MUCH talking, or not paying attention either. I AM paying attention. You asked? I saw my picture...and just told you what I saw.
" Jeese....aren't we touchy about our under wear?" LOL You may think this sounds like it's a wonderful ability but what I found mostly...is that people don't like it and I mostly don't share what I see because of it. Unless someone asks but with my wife...I have to be super careful since that starts making her feel insecure and self conscious sometimes. I read that to as I always have and connect that the same way.
Even though it's pretty hard to not say the sky is blue when someone is standing there looking at the same sky I am you know? lol
This is a mystery to me and always has been but it's like spending time investigating why we have fingers... you know? It's just there and is not going anywhere and it's handy at times and so it's not a problem? No problem? LOL (except knowing not to say the wrong thing to the wrong person and knowing which one not to? )
All the other things that does get me into trouble still apply like anyone else...but this one is not like those. This one stands out more to me...than it does to people like my Kindergarten teacher and drawing cows with lots of detail. LOL
??????????????????????????????????????????????????? LOL
Thanks Now. Back at you:)
J
What I Am Thankful For
Submitted by kellyj on
Is being allowed to journal without thinking and going back with the helpful people here to point out what I miss myself. (and the things I come to believe but am not seeing myself ) Boy...that didn't take long to see it. Why was I angry even in jest in my first response (as funny) God damn it??
Not so funny now....back to what I know was true. Contempt is insidious....and come in many forms other than eye rolling too. Not so funny....especially when directed at yourself and you didn't any know it?
I am so appreciative for the caring people here who are willing to do this and that I trust. Not many would do this and I am grateful. I feel the Love:)
J
Just to clarify
Submitted by Karinda on
I am not against therapy or self-reflection - not at all. But I also know that my relation to my partner shouldn't have to be a constant work or struggle. It should feel safe, calm, strengthening and fun. Why else bother?
Best wishes
I Can Only Speak For Myself
Submitted by kellyj on
Karina, I appreciate your well wishes. It's very encouraging. Unfortunately from only my own experience, I've come to learn a great deal about the effects that a person with ADHD can have on an intimate relationship. As you said you were once with a man with ADHD....but know you are with someone who is not. Without assuming anything here, the context of just that statement speaks volumes to me. I can only imagine and right to the point.... I take my ADHD with me where ever I go. There is no better than now for me.If I were to meet someone new, what I just explained to a certain degree will happen again ( as it has in my past) but before...I could not understand what the problem was and that in itself was a much bigger bother to me.
As secure and self confident as I feel I am, and have worked hard to become to be different than before...I will never not have ADHD.....and to the extent, there are some symptoms as small and insignificant as they might seem to me.....over time will still have impact like this with anyone I meet whether in a job or in any personal relationships I might have. For someone who has never experienced being with someone who has it they will still misinterpret, misapply and misjudge these things to mean something else. That is....something other than ADHD and none of them are good ones unfortunately.
This is just part of having ADHD that you have to learn to live with. It really poses me no personal issues or problems with friendships and even working relations...but on an intimate level, you can't keep these things from showing up to a certain degree and then there you are....you just activated that persons insecurities and what ever those are...they will come right to the surface.
You can't run and hide from this or pretend it doesn't exist on our end. We have to make accommodations at times and understand why and not feel criticized or upset when that happens. Mostly from the posts you read here on this forum about this very thing...the person who has it, has not figured this out yet. The problems that come from not understanding what I know now are many...especially when someone is hiding from it and doing not something about it. As I said....doing nothing is the worst thing you can possibly do.
I can only speak for myself, but if I want that safe, calm, strengthening fun relationship....I have to do this for my partners sake....or not be in a relationship at all. Mostly though....I have to do it for myself so I will feel good about myself and not let these things be a problem for me.
I have no experience in my lifetime where this did not happen in some form or another (varying degrees) so I don't have any experience with that relationship you're talking about. All of my relationships in my life of any kind have been impacted by having ADHD, and it gets manifested in it's own unique way in everyone... but it's always there and I take it with me.
So for me, those are the only two choices I have but I do understand what you are saying. It's only a burden and hard on others (having ADHD)...when you don't know "how" yourself. I have to bother (and do this)...or live alone and I choose not to. That's my choice and it'd be a lot easier not to bother and live alone and not be in a relationship at all. For me....I'm not built that way so that leaves me only one option.
I'm also not a victim of my ADHD either...which is the other reason to go through all of this and gain those skills I need to manage any relationship I have whether it's with my wife or anyone else.
I do appreciate the input and I do want the feedback since it is the only way I can hear the point of view of people who don't have ADHD and hear what they have to say:)
Best wishes to you too:)
J
"You can't run and hide from
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
"You can't run and hide from this or pretend it doesn't exist on our end. We have to make accommodations at times and understand why and not feel criticized or upset when that happens. Mostly from the posts you read here on this forum about this very thing...the person who has it, has not figured this out yet. The problems that come from not understanding what I know now are many...especially when someone is hiding from it and doing not something about it. As I said....doing nothing is the worst thing you can possibly do."
Oh J - this sooooo much. I am so glad you are taking care of you this way - you are becoming the best you! And it shows. I know I am grateful you are here, showing that having ADHD isnt the end. DOING NOTHING IS THE END. Coming from you - who HAVE ADHD, and who has lost because of it - I am so happy to see you rise up, and put in the work to not only help yourself, but because of that you are able to help so many others - people you could walk past on the street and never know it. You have helped them understand and get a better foundation for their OWN behaviors.... Kudos to you. You are changing the world around you. Doing nothing is the WORST THING YOU CAN DO. I hope my H is starting to figure this out in this crazy new way of living he has started. I hope for his sake that he takes the steps to start managing his issues - just like he is starting to take steps to manage his part of being in this household.
Agreed Karinda - very much
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
Agreed Karinda - very much agreed. Your relationship with your partner SHOULD be a refuge of calm, strength and where you go to replenish you soul.
When a partner with ADHD or ADD is treating and managing the symptoms and both partners are aware of the effects, they can be mitigated and the relationship CAN be all those amazing things - and more.
However, it does take 2... TWO.... to make that happen. The non ADHD spouse cannot do it on their own, as I have learned in a very painful, sad way. There are people all over the place who are doing it. Granted you dont see them here on the forum much as most of us here are in crisis, trying to make sense of things and trying to resolve and validate our own situations.
If your partner is unwilling to do their part in management of their issues - no matter WHAT they are, the relationship will never be those beautiful things and I personally think its best to save yourself the grief and move on. Do it before you are so invested that it guts you to the core to save yourself.
I wish I had those things with my husband. God knows I love him dearly - but my marriage is ending - because of his constant threats of leaving and my realization that I want more out of life than this constant struggle of wondering if *this* is the day he leaves.
I have been reading
Submitted by Karinda on
many of your posts, as well as many others from all the wise and generous people on this forum. In an attempt to try to figure out the mind and problems of the man with adhd that I once knew.
I can see and really admire your ambition to come to terms with the problems you face in your marriage. But since you are somewhat theoretical in your posts, I haven't quite understood what the problems really are. More concrete I mean. Is it the "usual" adhd-behaviour like forgetting, neglecting, blurting out, impulsiveness, cheating, loosing jobs, spending money, porn surfing? If so, what have you done to change your behaviour, ohter than trying to analyze and self-reflect?
Why is your wife not happy? How exactly would she like you to change? Is such a change possible?
Of course you don't have to answer my questions, and I don't mean to pry or be disrespectful, I am just curious since I haven't quite grasped the problems in your marriage.
I Apologize Kendra
Submitted by kellyj on
I was not getting to what you were saying before. If you read what I said to Stacey...I think that ight give a better idea. Why my wife is unhappy in part...was part of her past and childhood that I could see was not anything to do with me (attachment theory)
But in respect to the immediate and things on my end and what I have in my power to do...I'm already doing it...and have been none stop.
I know what the problem is...even if she can't say it directly (which she can't). Her environment and space and crowding....just things in and around her spacially....really really affect her negatively.
What you can't know...is that for a couple of years....I rented my house while I was busy with another project in the neighboring town. The renters trashed the place...and buried garbage on my property (for months) to avoid paying for service and so I wouldn't catch them doing it. When I returned home to live....I found refuse, tires and rubbish all over that was not there before. It was hidden and buried in order to hide it as I said. I was in the middle of a contrustion project that came to a screaching halt due to circumstances so my outside was a mess...and I've been cleaning that up now for a long time but getting near done with that.
At the same time....the inside went neglected and I was working on that at the same time...(remodeling project) while I was not living there thinking I would finish before I returned. This didn't work out as planned and I was stuck with all of it...and trying to live and work at the same time.
Saying...for one man full time it would have taken months to a couple of years to bring my home back from the decay that happened while I was away. My wifes issues surrounding this...seemed as if she beleived I could do that in a couple of months which was asking the impossible. That was impossible as I'm saying this...but I could not get that through her head?? Seemingly...what;s so hard to understand here. She see's the work and time and could apply that moving forward in context. It's not like she didn't know this ahead of time so what's the extreme pressure and rush. I was working double time and nothing releived her tension or gaining any understanding on this.
All she could see and expressed to me was...Now, Now, Now, Now. Hurry hurry ....rush rush!!! PANIC!!!!
Like...WTF?? I'm not going to kill myself because you can't wait an appropriate amount of time while you are actually seeing me working on it?
There is a push and something that is hitting on her that she can't say....that is so obvious to me that this Time and waiting thing....and me not getting it done....NOW....was almost making her leave even with me working on it full time?
Like her envorinment...and getting past???(what ever this panic was)....is way more important than me. it over rode my discomfort and stress and killing myself in the process? That made me feel so hurt to be laying then exhausted...and her coming at me asking me (again)....WHEN IS IT GOING TO BE DONE???
For the bezillionth time....the anser is the same as it was yesterday. A couple of years???
This was so apparent as this as the reasoning to leave me....it made no sense in context and was causing me to become very angry. Like....all I'm good for to you....is to provide you with the "Perfect environment"
As it appeared to me....that was exactly what it felt like to me with no reasonable logical explanation? Especially with her seeing this all ahead of time...and with me saying the same thing each time she asked. it was the anwser she wanted to hear....so I guess...asking it again would get it done sooner? Along with pressuring me to death with no ability to see what this was doing to me?????
That was and still is to a much lessor degree....the driving force right to us splitting up?? That didn't make me feel very valued or important I can tell you...all things considered?
Talk about living in the moment? But this was ridiculous?
J