Ready to Just Leave

We've all been there, so hang

Submitted by dazedandconfused on Wed, 12/19/2012 - 15:54

We've all been there, so hang in there. I'm going to go line by line of your original post:

So emotionally exhausted now, can barely write.

Married for 7 years, didn't know DH was ADD until well into marriage. Have had years of emotional abuse, violent temper rages (NEVER against me) with throwing things, slamming himself into walls, saying, "I'm going to just kill myself."

My hubby was the same. We had been married almost two years before he was DXed with ADHD. The more stress he was under, the more volatile he would become. He's never hit me but he has punched walls/doors, threatened to kill himself, said absolutely AWFUL things when angry, the list goes on. It's all a symptom of the ADHD, even though that is little comfort sometimes.

Blaming me for thing he does wrong. Flying off in angry outbursts at me for things he then goes and does. Hasn't held a job or been able to support us in the 7 years of marriage, blew through an inheritance we had WITHOUT TELLING ME that we were saving, now we are broke and might lose the house.

This too is a hallmark. Fortunately my husband does not play the blame game on me, but he can come up with some crazy excuses for why things went south or why he did something. He too has had problems at work. He was a cop when we dated but his chronic late issues and sometimes bad attitude ran him afoul of a supervisor who got him terminated. He went through two jobs after that, chronically depressed. He is now cooking and DJing in a bar but I rarely see any money from him. He does seem to have more money since he quit smoking and is attempting to contribute more to our household expenses. He attributes this to not spending money on cigarettes but also cutting down on his trips into gas stations. He's buying fewer energy drinks and snacks as a result. As for the house...yeah, we lost that. Though we were underwater and in a bad neighborhood so it was almost a relief. It's stressful as heck, but you'll make it. A lot of people are losing their homes, so no shame there. But I'm sure you're more concerned with the fact that he can't provide. He's going to need meds for that. Some ADHDers just can't seem to keep up with their finances. The only relief you'll get is to separate your finances and try to provide for yourself. Not fun, but since I have done this, my stress level has decreased in a major way.

Endless things lost, misplaced, forgotten.

And the selfishness is the worst. Is this part of ADD? I'm new to this forum.

The traits of ADHDers can all vary, but my DH can be so incredibly selfish sometimes. I'm assuming that it's because they are very centered on their selves and the things needed to keep them stimulated. I have to look beyond it and think about what a big heart my DH has when he uses it.

He often has little to no compassion or care for me or our daughter. He will look out for himself and do what HE wants regardless of how it affects us. When I ask him not to do "x" because it's not good for our family, he gets angry and says, "But I want to, I deserve it, why are you punishing me?"

I haven't gotten this from my DH, but I have heard it a lot on here.

And the clutter everywhere. As soon as he leaves a room it looks like a tornado was there, even if I just cleaned it a few mintues before he went in the room. It's like living with a teenager.

My DH is a clutter bug too. Maybe not a tornado, but he strews stuff all around the place or leaves things out after using them.

He is not a responsible husband or father.

Tonight, he deeply hurt me. Again. He went to the bank, 2 minutes from our house, to get cash for me to do the grocery shopping. He knew I was waiting for him, with our daughter, shoes on, coats on. Well, 3 HOURS go by with no answer on his cell, when I realize he left his cell phone HOME as I can hear it ringing. I get in the car and drive around looking for accidents. I call the police to ask about accidents. I'm freaking out.

He finally comes home and says that on the way to the bank he decided to stop by his job and talk to his boss for a "minute." He saw nothing wrong with that. He didn't get why I was mad he didn't go to the bank and come home since WE WERE WAITING FOR HIM. Well, after his boss' he went to the bank, and according to him, "didn't feel well" so put the seat back in his car and accidently fell asleep. Come to find out he hasn't eaten or drunk anything all day, which is why he "didn't feel good."

Again, he didn't see why I was mad at him for not eating/drinking all day and putting us in this position. He yelled and screamed that I didn't care about him, that I should feel sorry for him because he felt so ill.

My DH would do this too. He would say he was going to "X" and then what should have been a 30 minute errand turned into a four hour trip. It didn't help with my trust issues, that's for sure. Turns out that one errand turned into five. I would try to take this incident with a grain of salt. He did not do this to hurt you. He probably had good intentions: stop by and have a quick word with the boss, go to the bank, come back home. Well a few minutes with the boss turned into thirty minutes or an hour (or more) and then he crashed at the bank. My DH goes to sleep in the middle of errands all the freakin' time! I don't get it and while he's explained the logic, it still is beyond me. He often forgets to eat or drink too, so he will crash. They don't think, "I haven't eaten today, I'll feel better if I get a snack." They think, "I'll lay back for a minute and then feel better." But then they sleep for an hour or more.

Then he tells me he's going to his friend's house for dinner. This friend has a men's group/dinner at his house every other week and this was the week. My husband's job requires him to be on call in the evenings. I willingly gave up my evening women's group so he could work this job and get us out of the financial hole HE put us in. But he's been going to his men's group because if he gets a call, he can leave from there.

So tonight, I was so wound up and stressed from thinking he'd been in an accident I asked him not to go, I needed to just drive around, cool off. He yelled, "I'M GOING TO FRIEND'S!" And didn't get why I thought that was selfish. What I wanted to hear was "I'm sorry I put you through this, let me make it up to you. Go, take a ride, relax, just be back in time for when I go on call, I'll skip friend's tonight."

Nope. He yelled. Screamed. Raged. Scared our daughter. Said I was "punishing" him and slammed doors.

This sounds typical. I've been in a similar situation with my DH. He works weird hours and plays pool. Monday and Wednesday nights are supposed to be our nights together but he's been doing errands that take hours and by the time he gets home, I've got an hour before I have to go to bed. I've tried to confront him about this multiple times, but each time he deflected with "I'm trying so hard", "I'm making progress", etc. I FINALLY got through to him yesterday. I explained that I understood that we were making progress and it was because of that progress that I wanted to spend more time with him. I told him that it made me angry when I turned down invites to go places on Mondays and Wednesdays and then sat at home waiting for him to come back. Whatever I said, it got through to him because he called me up earlier and explained that he needed to have a DJ meeting tonight and would it be OK if we had dinner and watched a movie and he left around 9 to go instead of taking the meeting earlier and coming home at my bedtime? SUCCESS!

I feel at the end. I don't want our daughter to grow up with this, it's gonna mess her up. I feel like I physically and emotionally CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE. I just can't.

I feel like I am not a wife, but a mother. Or like he had some kind of brain injury, is special needs.

I don't believe in divorce for this kind of thing (he has never raised a hand to me or daughter). My religious background encourages me to work this out. He won't go to counseling. He won't go on meds.

I feel so depressed and alone.

I'm not a proponent of divorce for the most part either. As you noted, there wasn't anything in what you said that is one of the "allowable" reasons by God. You are between a rock and a hard place if he doesn't want to seek treatment. In which case, you're probably going to have pull an ultimatum. But be darn sure you are prepared to follow through. I had that moment with my husband last Thanksgiving. I had vaguely alluded divorce in the past but was never prepared to act on it. That time I was and it scared him. When he figured out that he couldn't talk me around like he had before, he demanded that we seek counseling first. So we did and have been for a year now. We are really doing better. There have still been ups and downs, but I'm seeing a future now, and the relief is immense. We don't have kids yet, and I had almost made my mind up against having them because I felt like while he would be a good father, he wouldn't be very helpful when it came to the day to day. I'm starting to feel a bit different, so we'll see.

So it may take an ultimatum on your part to get his attention. My DH is still rather sporadic on his meds but he's been serious about the counseling, and has stuck to it. There have been times where we would have an awful explosion and I thought it was hopeless but I kept plugging along. We had a pretty bad smash up about two months ago and for whatever reason, things have finally clicked with him sense. He's been more mindful of me and himself, which has made all the difference. I don't know what type of religious background you hail from or if your husband is religious either, but I recently made the realization that Satan wants to tear us believers apart. He will do anything to get to us--tear apart our families, our marriages, kill our children, you name it... Scary but it's easier to make him the enemy and not your husband or even the ADHD.

Good luck to you and I hope and pray you can talk some sense into him. When you do confront, it may be best to have your daughter elsewhere.

Dazed, thank you so much for

Submitted by AnnieBee on Wed, 12/19/2012 - 16:30

Dazed, thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful reply. It really helps. I too know that Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy and he would like nothing more than for our marriage to break up. My DH IS devoted to Jesus and but often can't focus enough to read his Bible or pray and that frustrates him too.

When DH is not in a "rage" he is AWESOME: kind, loving, hilarious, smart, fun, strong. And with our daughter, who is 3, he's great: playful, adoring, loving. She is daddy's little girl and she ADORES him. When he comes home from work the first thing she does is hug for tight for 5 minutes and won't even let me have a turn! LOL.

When he has his rages, as I said, they are not toward us. He will go into his office and freak out. Sometimes, though, he will yell at me ad use a nasty tone around her. She is 3 and since he grew up an only child AND has ADD he sometimes gets very frustrated with her 'three-ness.' I have to calm him down and tell him, "she's 3, she's not doing this to you personally, here's where she is developmentally," and he will usually calm down and relax.

What really got through to him one day was when he was in one of his rages our daughter was crying and saying, "what's happening?" He stopped cold and swooped her up, was heart broken she was scared.

Another thing that got through to him was one day when our daughter got mad at something she imitated his freak outs. When we corrected her and explained that's not how we handle anger in our family, she replied with, "that's what Daddy does." That stunned him and really made him stop and think.

Now, in the rare times he explodes in front of her (like last night) she says, "daddy is making bad choices, let's pray for him," or she says, "I'll make him feel better" and goes to give him a hug. God blessed us with an amazing, compassionate kid.

We talked some this morning and he wants to talk in depth tonight after daughter is in bed. He is now willing to go to counseling and try meds, so we'll see.

I'm so glad that he is open

Submitted by dazedandconfused on Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:45

I'm so glad that he is open to getting help! He definitely needs it. If your daughter is picking up on his responses and imitating them, then perhaps that will be what it takes to get him to take things seriously.

Otherwise, he sounds like he is a good man and it is truly the ADHD that is clouding him up. There are some good traits to the ADHD, you just have to learn to look for them and celebrate them, while working to downplay the ones that wreck havoc on the both of you. I'm so happy that my DH is laid back and I think it's the ADHD that helps him be that way. We can do things together, travel together, accomplish things together and never argue because he's willing to go with the flow. My stepdad has ADHD too but he and my mom clash over pretty much everything, so I know that I am blessed with a man who doesn't question, get angry, or belittle me when I ask to do something my way. Small mercies, you know?

But I totally understand when they explode. DH is gradually calming down. We've progressed from him threatening to throw the flat screen across the room or punching at the wall to him to just swearing once or twice and threatening to drive off. Or like last night, crumbling up and throwing down nacho chips on the floor. I didn't understand any of this until recently. MY DH unfortunately had negative reinforcement growing up. His parents argued a lot and as a way to "break them up" he would either do things to hurt himself or drastic things to get their attention like steal their car and abandon it along the roadway a couple miles from home. Even though he's nearly 32, whenever he feels like he isn't being heard, he acts out. Last night, he was having a very un-Christian moment by suggesting that we try to keep our tenants deposit (even though I'm about 95% certain they haven't damaged our old house). It really upsets me when he says things like this because I feel very strongly about not taking advantage of people. His excuse was that all of his landlords have taken advantage of him, so why not take advantage of our tenants when we need the money.

When I shut him down, he apparently felt like I wasn't listening and so he took nacho chips and broke them all over the floor. Then he was fine. As he was cleaning up, I started questioning him about where the anger was coming from and it turns out that he's been stressed for three weeks about money. That we won't have the extra money in case of an emergency and what if we deplete our emergency fund, and by the way, his truck is breaking down almost every other day. Once I ascertained that he was just worried, I hugged him and told him everything was going to be fine, that we weren't dependent on the extra money, etc. It was a major breakthrough I think because he was like "OK, you're right." It was like I could feel the worry and angry go right out of him. He just needed someone to understand and tell him it was going to be OK. Later on I told him that I wasn't like his parents and that when he was stressed or angry on inside about something, to just tell me and not act out over something unrelated. Longwinded, but my point is that there might be a root to some your husband's acting out angrily. Well there always has to be a root, but the question is does he even know. If he does, then can he confront it and diffuse it?

I know this path we walk can be lonely; I've done so much research into the ADHD, trying to understand it; I have prayed, prayed, prayed, and prayed again; but it's still not easy. I have very little support from my family and only slightly more from his. Even now with my DH changing for the better, I still feel like they don't trust him or approve of the fact that I have stayed with. All of this from supposed "Christians" too! It's frustrating to the extreme and doesn't help when all you need is someone to reach a hand out and tell you that it is OK to fight, it's OK to stay.

Continue to hang in and keep us updated.

All may not be ADHD

Submitted by lynnie70 on Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:31

I don't think all of this is directly from the ADHD. Sounds to me like the selfishness and rage issues may be from something else. Note that the experts say 60% of those with ADHD have other disorders as well. Or they can certainly have traits from other disorders without having the whole disorder.

In addition to exploring the ADHD issues, look up "domestic abuse" because that is what he is doing. Good book and a real eye-opener: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans will give you some insight into why he may be doing this and how you can limit his effect. At the very least, you're going to have to set up some boundaries for his behavior (for example, "If you yell at me or hit the wall or throw things, you scare me and our daughter and I am going to my parents house for the rest of the evening.") and stick to them. Rage is NOT because of anger -- it is a way to control you. That control issue is what you are going to have to examine closely, and it will take a lot of strength to resist.

The selfishness sounds more like narcisistic behavior. There are a whole bunch of disorders out there that make simple ADHD sound like a picnic. Start looking and studying up. He is being abusive and selfish. God has a lot to say about how he hates a violent or foolish man and how men should treat others (should this not include their wives?) If God hates a person who acts this way and tells people to stay away from an angry man (check out Psalms and Provers), are wives the only ones required to put up with them? I think not .

Lynnie,I don't think this

Submitted by dazedandconfused on Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:12

Lynnie,

I don't think this man exhibits narcissistic behavior. I sensed that her husband has issues similar to my own husband's and I know my husband isn't a narcissist. As I mentioned, some of the selfishness demonstrated by ADHDers is simply their constant pursuit of stimulation. I also think she was giving examples and not necessarily saying that his behavior was the rule. But the OP can speak to that. Just because a lot of the spouses on here are truly abusive, doesn't mean they all are. Yes, he needs to find constructive ways to deal with his anger, but I think a lot can be said for the fact he clearly understands that he has a problem. And now, he wants to seek help. If he doesn't follow through with treatment, then the OP will need to ask herself some hard questions. But until then, can we not support her a little better? And furthermore, the ship has sailed on your comments regarding Psalms and Proverbs. I don't think anywhere in there does God say, "If you marry an angry man, you have a right to divorce him." True, the OP's husband needs to learn to curb his anger and thank God he is a Christian because he has a chance of doing it better than most people who don't have any type of relationship with God. It's true that his acting out is a way to control the situation (though not necessarily her) and I'm sure there is a reason why he does it.

I know we are all trying to help each other on these boards, but the time has come to back off of the negativity. I don't think Melissa Orlov's intent by creating this board was to congregate a bunch bitter wives intent on convincing each other that there is no hope and that all ADHD spouses are evil and/or doomed to their bad behavior. There are people who come here for genuine support, not "get a divorce". They want to vent but ultimately they want hope. I know the first time I came on here, I came looking for hope. What did I get? A "he's never going to change, you might as well get a divorce" speech. I was mortified and depressed for days. I didn't come back here for a year. But I'm SO glad that I didn't listen to that person because while it has been a few years, my husband is changing for the better. He's grown up a lot. He's more thoughtful and he's trying damnedest to restore our marriage.

But I'm not so drunk on my own sunshine that I can't see when there are truly problems in some of the marriages on this board. There are some spouses on here who I don't think they have ADHD, but some serious mental issues. They abuse their partners either verbally or emotionally and sometimes physically. And they show absolutely no remorse for it. They show no inclination of wanting to receive treatment because they don't think there is a problem. That's called having no empathy or better known as being a sociopath. These are the types that God warns about. These are the times when even I will suggest that the spouse should consider divorce because their life is at risk. But we can't be continually going around telling every new OP on here that they should divorce and especially for some of the reasons I see on here. It's bad advice, and like it not, for every divorce you get, you not only carry the baggage from your single life but the baggage from the failed marriage. No wonder once one or two divorces are done, a person goes on to number three or four. The statistics stack even higher against you each time a marriage fails. Where do you draw the line? That's up to each person on here, but I'm not going to be apart of counseling someone to do something that could haunt them for the rest of their life.

Although after her discussion

Submitted by lynnie70 on Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:25

Although after her discussion she changed her tune somewhat, I wrote my advice for the original post which included (quotes):

years of emotional abuse
violent temper rages
throwing things
slamming himself into walls
saying, "I'm going to just kill myself."
Blaming me
angry outbursts at me
Hasn't held a job
blew through an inheritance
broke and might lose the house.
selfishness
little to no compassion
He will look out for himself and do what HE wants regardless of how it affects us.
he gets angry and says, "But I want to, I deserve it, why are you punishing me?"
He is not a responsible husband or father.
He yelled. Screamed. Raged. Scared our daughter. Said I was "punishing" him and slammed doors.
I don't want our daughter to grow up with this
I feel like I am not a wife, but a mother. Or like he had some kind of brain injury, is special needs.
He won't go to counseling.
He won't go on meds.
I feel so depressed and alone.

I think there are plenty of people on this post to offer advice on how to stay, and they have great advice sometimes. But not every relationship can be fixed. And if someone feels they are being abused and titles their post "Ready to Just Leave", I think someone should believe them and support their perception of what is happening TO THEM. I've been through this kind of abuse from an ADHD spouse, and you can't require a person to go crazy and lose their mental health just because their spouse has ADHD.

If you have another point of view, please express it freely. Only the person posting will be able to decide which advice best fits her needs. And yes, their decisions may haunt them the rest of their lives. Or they may stay with someone truly dangerous and not live to see the rest of their lives.

points of view and reality

Submitted by lynninny on Fri, 12/21/2012 - 08:05

dazed, I hope you don't mind if I weigh in here as well. I have been so grateful for these boards, and actually appreciated that the variety of responses I received ranged from "here is how you can work with and appreciate your relationship to you ADHD spouse" to "that is what I would do if my DH got out of the car and threatened to walk when the kids were there," to "that is abuse, period." Including your responses, definitely, thank you! All were true, and all came from a plethora of people who have figured out how to navigate their lives. Throw in there a range of belief systems, from a belief in God and religion, to psychiatry and medicine, to meditation, to homeopathic remedies and diet. I think each are valuable and it may be best to consider everything one hears when going through a tough time.

I don't think lynnie is being negative, and the original post here had some serious things going on. It can be extremely useful to hear and know that you don't have to live a certain way, even if your decision is to work through issues and remain in your marriage. Lynnie is right, and if you label the behavior rather than the person: throwing rages in front of a three year-old is selfish. Burning through an entire inheritance without telling ones spouse is selfish, and alarming, to say the least, and suggests a disturbing level of secrecy and compulsion. And threatening to break things like a tv is abusive, and is domestic abuse, whether you wish to call it that or not--it is using the threat of physical force and violence to intimidate and control others. Not to mention threatening to kill oneself. I am not belittling this--I am delighted that the writer's DH is making progress and they are happier. I hope that faith and treatment and work improves their lives. But given my own experiences, I feel it is important for me to let her know my experiences. My STBX progressed from punching the walls in a bedroom with the door closed to throwing a phone book at me and hitting me with it, in a very short period of time. I never thought it would happen. Where do you draw the line, there--when did he cross over from being an "angry man", which he was when we married, to an abusive bully? The worst moments were when I pointed out his behavior to him and tried to defend myself. I still am not sure, but I definitely waited too long (and my spouse would not get treatment, no matter what).

And please be careful when defending staying in marriage by quoting the subsequent failed marriage rate for people who have been divorced. Statistically, you are correct, and divorce should never be an easy out. I cringe when I read about Hollywood folks being married for 72 days. But this is no reason to be in a marriage that remains so unhealthy that it does not enhance or complement ones quality of life or that damages ones children (and I am not talking about anyone specific here). I have had two relationships with smart, controlling, angry, charismatic men who ultimately became abusive. Obviously I have something going on here, and am looking for something. Surprise, my father was the same way, Dr. Freud. If I married the same type of man now, I would be doomed to repeat my mistakes. But, if I figure this out (as I will, and I started to, when I left), I am not doomed to this type of dynamic if I ever have another relationship again.

Peace to everyone.

I appreciate all the comments

Submitted by AnnieBee on Fri, 12/21/2012 - 09:10

I appreciate all the comments and do value the different perspectives. I'd glad to hear different viewpoints, gives me more to think about.

I want to say I wrote the OP in anger, right after the blow up. He has these rages 2-3 times a month and he tries not to do it in front of our daughter, but sometimes it happens.

As far as the inheritance, it wasn't him spending on himself and enjoying himself, it was him drawing on it to pay bills because he wasn't making any money from his job. The selfish/lying part comes in when he didn't tell me he was doing that for so many years. When we needed the $$ for something and he told me how little was actually left I went nuts. I am a stay at home mom who gave up a great teaching job with tenure because I believed he was making $$ and supporting us. I had no idea he was supporting us with the inheritance. I would have gone back to work!

His excuse was, "I felt too ashamed to tell you I was failing at my job," and "I really wasn't watching the balance on the $$, I was just paying bills, I didn't know we were so low." I am trying to insist that we pay bills together now, that he turn over each paycheck to me to deposit and we sit down once or twice a month and see what we have vs. what's due and pay everything together. I've gone back to work part time to help.

But...he's resisting paying bills together. I have no idea why.

The main things are the seeming rudeness of treating me like a maid. He constantly forgets to do things, he rarely, if ever, follows through on promises. For example, our backyard is a MESS because he keeps procrastinating or forgetting to tend to it. Weeds and overgrown trees and bushes EVERYWHERE, it's disgusting. We don't have the $$ to pay a landscaping person to do it. And if we do come down to losing the house, showing the house with the backyard in that condition will hurt us.

And his office (he works from home) is the same: disgusting, looking like an episode from hoarders. He's also done that to the basement and garage. No way we can show the house if we need to and no way he's ever going to clean everything.

I'm a very organized person, neat and clutter free. His clutter just triggers such anger in me. Part of it is justified, he should clean up after himself and not be disgusting and part of it is my issues of NEEDING everything just so.

I want to reiterate he is a GREAT father otherwise. He adores our daughter and vice versa and he is amazing with her when playing with her or hanging out with her. The good times of his fathering far outweigh the bad.

I seem to take the brunt of his laziness/selfishness/ADHD/whatever is going on.

Lynninny--

Submitted by dazedandconfused on Fri, 12/21/2012 - 09:42

I think the issue here is that everyone's experience is different. You may have been in a relationship where your partner went from punching walls to throwing things at you in a short amount of time, but that doesn't mean that every spouse will do that. Sometimes, you just want to hit things. Note that I say things and not people. No one on God's green earth can be stable 100% of the time. I don't have anger issues but there have been times that I have been so angry that I have thrown things including a toilet paper holder at my DH during one of our fights, though I don't remember him being in the hallway when I threw it. Everyone has their moments and personally, as long as he's not hitting me, trying to hit me, or throwing things at me, then I'm willing to work through it with him because he knows there is an issue and wants to work on it. The situation was discussed in counseling and he never threatened to throw the TV again and has gradually de-escalated to the point where he simply crushing tortilla chips in his hands. Pretty innocuous in my view.

There are too many women on here who have been through hell and back with spouses who are truly mentally troubled and who don't want to get help. I don't think these women are in a position to be going around, dispensing advice to every person who comes on this board looking to vent. When there is true domestic abuse, I'm one of the first people to get on board and say leave. You know, you have agreed with me on several occasions. But just because the OP entitled her post "Ready to Leave" doesn't necessarily mean she's ready to leave. I can't count how many times I told my DH that I was ready to leave, but truthfully I wasn't. Personally, I didn't feel like God had given me leave to do so. The moment that I did feel like He did was the moment my DH woke up and decided to fight for our marriage. Has it been smooth sailing 24/7? No. It was only it last two months that he really got on the same page with me. He was near hospitalization from pneumonia and he made the decision that he didn't want to keep living his life the way he was. He has since stopped smoking, started coming home earlier than he was, and has made a concerted effort to work out his schedule so he spends more time with me. Will there be problems again? Probably. Every marriage has problems. That's the problem with this world. 'Til death do us part doesn't mean anything anymore. Let's not even talk about Hollywood stars because they don't live in the real world. The real world is that marriage is the most traumatic, hard, gut wrenching thing anyone can undertake and yet our society has built up this aura around marriage that says it should be blissful, wonderful, and life affirming only and the moment that you don't get your way or you go through a rough time, then you should hit the road.

I went into my marriage knowing it was going to be hardest thing I had ever done and yet I let the world still color my view of things--that it was going to be roses and candlelight. Nothing in the world prepared me for ADHD, depression, joblessness, pay cuts, and not being able to make the mortgage. Or the fact that my own family would buy into the world's stupidity and when I needed someone to tell me, "Hey it's going to be OK. You're going to get through this", I ended up getting, "Well you've always been a wise person. We're behind you when you decide to leave." I needed tough love not concessions. I needed to be told, "Work it out." Maybe they weren't strong enough to say that--in fact, they weren't. Who wants to tell the child that they birthed and raised that they need to "work it out"?

We need to take a harder look at the posts on this board and make a differentiation between the ones who are looking to vent and get support to stay in their marriages, and those looking for support to leave for legitimate reasons. To be honest, we probably shouldn't be giving advice at all because we're only getting one side of the story. Sometimes with a little more digging, we can find out more about what is going on. We've got to stop saying, "Oh yeah get a divorce because he's not helping around the house." We need to start saying, "Put on your big girl (or boy) panties and work it out" because that is what's wrong with this society. The family unit has been broken down. I grew up in a broken family and sure, I have issues, and sure, they have contributed mightily to the problems in my marriage. My hubby's background was seemingly more stable, but bad habits and reactions were encouraged. He was kindling, my background was the spark, and his ADHD was the gasoline. But we're both seeking treatment for our learned behaviors in addition to counseling for our marriage. But there are too many out there who are willing to throw in the towel with very little introspection because things aren't the way they thought it would be. And people need to know that the chances they'll get locked in an endless cycle of divorce grow exponentially with each one. I do applaud you for taking the time to think about why you are attracted to specific person and what in your background has caused this. But there are a lot of people who don't understand that they need to do that and no one has the cahones to tell them so. If I have to be that person, then fine. I'm OK with that.

I'm just saying we need to be more positive and we don't need to jump to conclusions every time someone says their husband punched the wall. Sorry, I'm just very passionate about this subject. And I've been in the position on this board where I was being told "you need to leave" when all I wanted to hear was, "I've been there. It's going to be OK."

To AnnieBee--

Thank you for clarifying. I didn't mean to turn this into a great debate on divorce. You've got to do what's best for you and your daughter. I just wanted to temper the "you need to get a divorce" responses with my experience, which apparently is a lot more positive than most of the other spouses on here. I would never encourage you to stay with your husband if I thought he was a domestic abuser. Sure his rages or angry responses are not something to be tolerated or encouraged, but I for one know that if he has the desire to work on them, then it's worth seeing how that turns out. He reminds me so much of my husband, who can be volatile at times, but has a good heart and truly wants things to be different.

As for your comments on his messiness, if he has an office that is his space, then don't worry yourself about the state of it. It's not worth it as long as you can close the door and you're not expected to keep it clean. I've mentioned that my hubby isn't the cleanest person either nor does he think about helping around the house. When my grandfather was dying earlier this year, and I was spending all my time at the hospital, I used to come home and dishes everywhere, food left out, etc. It finally took me breaking down and crying in counseling about how overwhelmed I felt when I came home to a mess. He promptly started taking his dishes to the sink and putting stuff back up. He's stuck with it for the most part. I don't know about you, but I've not asked him to help for fear that he will agree to and will forget it and it will start a fight. Imagine my surprise recently when I decided to ask him to do the dishes, and he replied that he had just gotten done with them.

My surprise got even bigger recently when we had a holiday party and he got out of bed when I asked him to, and he helped me cook and get the food out. OK, he obsessed about getting the food out and I could have used his help elsewhere, but you know, I acknowledged that it was a big step for him to have done what he did. It's the small victories that I thrive off of. :-)

As for your yard, is he the type that will go along with you if you tell him, "Saturday I want to go out back and clean up the yard. I could really use your help."?

My continued best for you. Merry Christmas. I hope it will be a time of peace and joy for you and your family.

to AnnieBee

Submitted by jennalemon on Fri, 12/21/2012 - 10:58

AnnieBee. Your dh sounds like mine. Don't hold back on your own truths and feelings. Find people you trust and admire and don't sugar coat it for "appearances". Don't keep other people's secrets if they are hurting you. Your well-being and your children's well-being is important....just as important as anyone else's. I had a talk with my pastor. He said, "God's commandments were made for His people to live together in harmony. God does not want one person to be miserable their entire life at the hands of someone who refuses to love and cherish his family." If I save my marriage for the commandment's sake or for appearance sake or out of fear and lack of self-confidence or lack of support and resources or fear of poverty....but the marriage is in tact, what do I have at the end? A bad marriage with my children being the spectators. So the marriage and finances are above poverty but what happens to your heart and soul?

He often has little to no compassion or care for me or our daughter. He is not a responsible husband or father. Hasn't held a job or been able to support us

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul". Trust me, your heart and soul are not "rewarded" after a lifetime of compromising and "letting things go" for someone who doesn't love (no compassion even). You will not be rewarded for looking the other way when there is bad behavior in your family. Your dh will not appreciate you for your compromises in the end....he will not have noticed or remembered. After over 30 years of my compromising, sacrificing, praying, supporting financially, emotionally supporting my husband, my dh said to me, WHILE I was supporting him, "What did you EVER do for me?" I had hid his weaknesses from friends and family and I became the drudge while he was the funny care-free one. That is what I did for him...but look what i did to me.

Also, A good father is more than someone who acts like he loves and plays with the children. A young boy can do that. A good father is a leader, supports the family and is a good role model to the sons. A good father/husband makes the home feel safe for the girls to live. A good father takes pride and joy in being able to plan for and support his family.

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