Sad and very confused

When my husband started Concerta about 5-6 weeks ago, I was concerned. Mainly because he took it many years ago (although only officially being diagnosed this past summer...his PCP prescribed it for him because I suppose he always knew something was wrong with his racing mind) and when he took it he became combative and irritable. At only rare times in our marriage was he 'mean' like this. He's much more of a passive/agressive ADDer.

First the meds made him feel horrible physically (18mgs of Concerta XR). Within a couple of weeks he was leveling off and doing well. Went back in for a follow up and for reasons unknown to me, his doctor increased him to 27mgs. I'm not sure if it was something my husband told him or what, the only explaination I got was that he started him out low and was slowly increasing him, but felt that 27mgs is where they would stay. Within two weeks he was not wanting to get out of bed, had ZERO energy, but claimed he was 'coming down with something'. He had been claming this for .. oh...TWO WEEKS?? He even took almost an entire week off of work, went back to the doctor, got anti-biotics (from something he heard in his chest...he smokes 2-3 packs of cigarettes a day!!) and he also asked him to lower his dosage back to 18mgs. I was told by our counselor and my husband both that my input was crucial and I've tried to remain unbiased and give him a chance to adjust and see how things go, but I was honest with him...I think it was kicking his butt no only physically, but he had become EXTREMELY sensitive and defensive and was snapping at me.

Friday, he forgot to take his meds. He had band night that night (he plays with a group of friends) and he had 'a few beers'. Yesterday...he was someone I hadn't seen in MONTHS. I'm still somewhat in shock and not sure what to think or feel or how to handle it. He is very insecure and I am coming to realize he is 'bothered' by me being here. I had started discussing some things with him, I won't do that anymore. Ever. He will never see me on this site again...but I'm not ready to give up my only support line at this point. He hasn't asked...he would die before he would do that. Anyway, me talking about something here yesterday is what put his mood in the ditch...I suspect. We got on the subject of overspending. He gave me his debit card last spring. For years and years I was 100% in charge of handling the money, he had a debit card and NEVER EVER EVER asked me if we had the money in the bank, he would just use it as he saw fit. I literally would not pay bills knowing if I did, he would overdraw our account...so bills went unpaid or were late so I could keep a cushion in the bank. I felt it was the lesser of two evils. When my father died I got $40K in life insurance...last Jan. By June it was gone. He was literally going to the bank and getting out $300-$500/wk and had NOTHING to show for it. (for about a month he was buying nerve pills-immeidately after he quit drinking) All of this was resolved, for the most part, when he gave up his debit card. On many occasions he has admitted he has a problem spending too much money, buying things he does not need. He has even admitted it in counseling. He has a $1000 guitar that he has promised to sell (and then says he's not...and then says he is) because it was purely an impulse buy and he knows he does not need it. (he has about 7? 8? guitars..amps...pedals...etc) No amount of talking can convince him that it isn't about the money to me, it is about being able to survive..pay bills...and the constant worry of when he'll stop..or WILL HE stop?

Yesterday he said he didn't give me his debit card because HE has a problem with money, he gave it to me because "I" have a problem with money. I was shocked. I worry about money..a LOT. I admit I have a problem being a worrier. We barely make ends meet..and sometimes they don't. It isn't that we don't have enough to pay the bills, I'm just not a very good planner...and since we have very little 'extra' I end up going over and the bills are always a little behind. I am doing Dave Ramsey's program praying it will help me. He also went on to say that he didn't have any worries or cares in the world about his spending...never bothered him in the least he said. He only gave up his card because of me. "I thought I was doing a good thing, since it was such a problem for you". How can he admit something for months and take full responsibility, then turn around and act like he never said it???!! Not only that, he did eventually admit that he was NOT going to admit it (that he has a problem with impulse control) simply because I wanted him to. This is in STARK contrast to what he has been like for months..responsible for his ADD impulse problems, openly admitting them. He went right back to "you're just trying to control me..make me believe what you believe". I heard that for six years...even if it was true, it isn't now and I won't be treated that way.

All I could say was "please don't do this...why are you doing this?" I finally just told him "you have to go get off of those meds. It has changed you into someone who his ugly and mean and I don't even recognize this person". Of course he responded with "yeah, it's all the meds!" (sarcasm). I said "I was told by our counselor that it was important for me to observe and report what was happening to you...and I am telling you, you have to get off of them and try something else...and my worst fear is that you're going to be in denial about what they're doing and refuse to quit taking them" I just sobbed. I didn't know what else to do. I couldnt' stop myself...I sobbed the entire way home. An hour later he wanted to pretend nothing had ever happened. No apology, nothing. (this usually comes hours later..or even a day or two later). Later he wanted to go to the grocery store...and I told him we had a very limited amount to spend...we had to get just what we would need. He put some snack cakes in the buggy...fine. He then wants another box and asked if we could get them..and I told asked if one box could be enough, for now..until he gets paid. He got furious, put both boxes back, and when we got in the car he told me he wasn't going to church with me today. Just like that? His relationship with God is done...because he is mad at me? I know he is just trying to hurt me...and it worked.

Is it the meds? Is it that he missed his meds the one day? Is it not the meds for him? Was it the addition of the alcohol? He RARELY drinks...but still does on occasion. Until this point I have had no reason to worry about it, but I'm wondering if now that he's on the meds it isn't having a negative impact on his moods. He was HORRIBLE and MEAN and CRUEL when he drank before. If I mention anything at this point, meds..booze...whatever..he'll see it as me blaming him. I told him yesterday that I feel he needs to stop the meds...what they were doing to him...and I am praying he heard me.

He has even started saying "I am furious right now!!" like he has to announce to me to that I have gone and messed up by making him mad. ???? We went through a drive thru for lunch one day recently (after starting meds) and the guy at the window was nice/friendly to me...he sat in the seat STEWING...and said "that conversation just made me furious" but denied it had anything to do with being jealous, just said our voices made him furious. HE is out of control of himself and his emotions...I can't explain it any other way. :-(

Sherri

 

 

 

 

 

Sherri, My heart is just

Sherri, My heart is just breaking for you as I read your post.  I understand your hurt, confusion, even anger that's resulting from your spouses behavior - please remember how strong you are and how far you have come in this journey. 

I would have to guess that your are correct and that the med's have seemed to have made a negative impact on your husbands behaviors. 

As you know, my ADD spouse too has difficulty with impulsive spending and of course that has an impact on the family finances and given the current economy, I understand your concerns with money.  I pray that you are able to find some peace - I don't have an answer for you but I feel your pain and I understand.

Not sure how things would work in your state/area but when things with my ADD spouse and I were at absolute rock bottom (his behaviors were almost identical to what you were describing: withdrawn/happy w/i an hour, yelling for no reason, everything was always my fault no matter what, the impulsive spending, the drinking, the belief that I am trying to control him, ect) I contacted his doctors office and told him what was happening.  Finally, my husband allowed me to come along to his next appt.  Well, I found out that he was drinking copius amounts of coffee (anywhere between 10-12 cups) everyday plus energy drinks and full caffenine pop add that to lack of sleep and his dr felt that was the trigger for his behavior. I have to admit, once he cut way back on caffenine things did improve - not great but livable and at least reasonable most of the time.  Does your husband drink too much caffenine? This was happening without me even aware of it - but add to much caffenine and the need med's maybe there's a connection?  Not sure, though.

Or maybe its time to call your counselor and let him/her know what you are seeing - sometimes that person is netural enough that the ADDer doesn't feel as though they are being judged, ect.

I commend your efforts at continuing to move forward with your life and not retreating to your old ways! Hang in there Sherri - you are strong.  Please remember you are not alone and you have so much to offer.

Hugs and prayers of comfort to you

Sherri, yikes!

That sounds so scary and disheartening.  You are in my thoughts.  So many women on this forum have had their husbands drive their financial lives into a ditch.  It sounds like you worry a lot about money.  I cannot imagine how much more disturbing my marriage would be if this were also an issue.  As for his current behavior- I agree with lonelywife; call your counselor!  Maybe they can help.  As for the money stuff (remember, I don't know much about this stuff); it occurs to me that that while you were doing great managing the money yourself, you maybe need to go all the way and maintain some separate accounts.  This works great in my household, (though the problem here is that I am frugal and he is just a skinflint, and he didn't  want me to spend ANY money).  

There was a time in our marriage that I was forced to to divert my direct deposit 100% into my own private account for an entire year, until he was frazzled enough trying to make household ends meet on only his check.  Granted, I was only able to use this shoehorn to influence his behavior because he is very traditional and feels that the man should be the primary provider.  This "power play" forced him to acknowledge that me sharing most of my money was better than me not sharing ANY of my money.  We still maintain 4 separate accounts; one household (bills, vacations, kid's needs); one savings/investments (NO ONE is allowed to touch it for any reason whatsoever); one for him alone (fun, lunch money); and one for me (fun, lunch money). We maintain pretty strict no questions asked policy about our personal fun money accounts. He has a debit card to his personal account only.  If I were to discover that he was accessing any other account for any non-agreed upon reason, I would immediately empty/liquidate the account , and re-open in my name only (he knows this).  I am hard-core about the money- it is the absolute deal breaker for me.  I grew up pretty poor, so I have a lot of emotional stuff around money.  I have one brother, and his wife at times calls me crying because my brother is very impulsive and irresponsible with money.  He will go to the ATM several times a day (!?!) and gambles at times, too.  I get so scared for her, but I cannot convince her to be proactive about it.  She thinks she is being a good Christian wife by "letting" him be the head of the household.  I tell her any serious "organization" (read: marriage) has both a CEO AND a CFO, and they are never the same individual for a reason.

I have tried to not 'tell

I have tried to not 'tell him' what he can or cannot buy...when he meets me in the middle and does not ask for more than what is reasonable. His is our only income. He keeps 'threatening' to have his own account, but it is like I asked him yesterday "what money would you put into it??" !!

He used to make double what he makes now. We still have pretty much the same amount of debt, but a lot less income. We tightened our belts a LOT when he lost his job last year but I still haven't devised a new system to adjust to the huge income decrease and since the 'extra' is a lot less now, I find myself never managing to not spend too much. I honestly thought I was doing great...paid a few bills...then decided to get groceries and then pay the rest of the bills. I was SOOO frugal, even going to 3 different stores to catch stuff that was on sale. When I sat down to pay the other bills 3 days later..I had $650 worth of bills left to pay and only $475 left in the bank. I was sure there would be about $900 left. I honestly was shocked. I just simply am exhausted, unmotivated, and I NEED some help. He will not help, refuses to even talk to me about bills/finances. I think this is a huge part of what has set him off for the last day or two...I BEGGED him, via e-mail, to do Dave Ramsey's program with me, admitting that we have enough income to pay the bills, I just am failing miserably managing it on top of everything else. I am taking intense classes this semester and still trying to manage to have time for everything else. I just need a break. I need a routine. I need structure. I just need some advice from someone who has the answers that I don't. I haven't balanced the checkbook in 2 years or more. We aren't getting ready to lose our house or cars or anything, but this way of doing things has caused me so much stress and I am big enough to admit I don't have the answers. If he still had his debit card and was spending like we had a never ending supply...especially now with his 50% pay cut, we'd NEVER make it. I KNOW we'd lose everything we have. The only reason we haven't before now is because we had a cushion big enough to protect us...and I nagged and begged and bitched enough to keep his spending within our means.

Anyway..that is my issue with money...and I just worry... a lot. If I wake up at 3 a.m. you can bet it has to do with money somehow. I'm going over in my head what is past due, when it will be paid, etc. It is killing me. I admitted this to him, asked him to support me in the financial plan Dave Ramsey has, and I think I am now suffering the consequences. When I complain about us not having enough money, he feels like I'm calling him a failure. Don't get me wrong..I made it perfectly clear that his income covers our debt...and enough for us to survive on..as we get our debt paid off and get me through school. I never said "you don't make enough" or "we need more money" I just basically admitted the truth...that I don't have the discipline or energy to manage it myself anymore...but he hears what he wants and I would bet he is so defensive because he heard me saying "you're a loser" "you don't make enough money" "I want to be with someone else who is richer than you". He has always accused me of caring only about money...and I can promise you this is not true..God as my witness...HE is the one who is obsessed with it...more specifically with 'stuff'...and buying stuff...and being able to afford 'stuff'. He told me today he does not want to talk to me right now...but did text me saying that he was furious over our financial situation..saying that if he wanted to buy cookies he should be able to buy cookies, that he is 38 years old and doesn't need anyone telling him that he can't buy what he wants. Yeah...something is very wrong. I'm praying it is the meds. I haven't seen that attitude in so long, it really hurts to see it again.

I have a huge test tomorrow in Anatomy and I haven't been able to focus on my studying all day. I have a headache and am about to fall asleep. He has ignored me and refused to talk to me all day. He said he just wanted to lay in bed, watch TV, and think. For both our sakes, I hope he's thinking about what he's doing and how he can stop doing it. For the record, I apologized for making an issue of the snack cakes. I try and ask myself (in 2 seconds) if it is really something that would matter in the long run...and not say "no" to him if he wants something. I suppose a $3 box of snack cakes weren't the end of the world. Truth is, I was already defensive because of the conversation we'd had early..and his subsequent attempt to act as though nothing had happened..and I spoke before my 2 second thought was up. It was not the end of the world, I should have just said yes and avoided the entire confrontation...but I didn't. He is ultimately responsible for his reaction though...and his refusal to go to church because of it was crossing a line. I just wonder why he asked...he'd already put 5 other things in the buggy, including the first box of snack cakes, without asking...and I would prefer it be that way..unless it is a $40 ham or something.

Anyway, I'm tired. Guess I will go join him in the bedroom...so I can be ignored some more. Still praying...that's all I know to do. I want my sweet, kind, long fused husband back. :(

money worries

You know how you said my husband's emotional distance made you want to kick him in the teeth?   I am feeling a wrathful- old testament prophet-righteous indignation for you and this situation right now.  I am so mad for you that you have to even "discuss" snack cakes in any way whatsoever.  I wish I could remove your husband's gleno-humeral joint of the upper extremity that uses the debit card.  Hang in there, girl.  Yes, you could have just artfully avoided the confrontation; but its hard to remember that in a "normal" relationship, you can just say those sorts of things, and your partner would be all, "Well, I guess I don't need these snack cakes anyway;  I could stand to lose a pound or two," and you'd be all, "Oh honey, you always look good to me," while you put the snack cakes back on the shelf. Whereas in these sorts of relationships you have to walk on the proverbial egg shells.  Remembering that 24-7 takes up a lot of mental real estate.  It is a scary situation when you have to rely on one person for your household income.  Sometimes I think that being the sole provider has a tendency to bring out the tyrant in anyone.  I had a good friend in the past whose husband did not have ADD; they dated for nine years before they married and he was a lovely person.  Then she had a baby and quit work, and overnight he became the meanest person ever. I am praying for you right now.  Good luck on the anatomy test.

waynebloss's picture

Sheri..I am sorry

I am sorry that your husband has started to use this tool against you!  I could not tell you if I think it is the meds or alcohol or both but something needs to change!  I will keep you in my prayers that something is changed which makes life a little bit easier!

Ironically, he has lost 10

Ironically, he has lost 10 pounds on the meds...and was very thin before starting them...so I guess the cookies would have been a good thing for him....

I appreciate the prayers..that is all that is getting me through right now. This has really thrown me for a loop and proved just how vulnerable we still are. I almost feel like a fool, but am praying this changes and I'm just over-reacting.

I am still getting a semi-cold shoulder this morning..then during class he gets off on this tangent(him texting me..I didn't respond) because my sister e-mailed him asking him to bring over some parts to an old truck my nephew used to have that we have in our garage when we come to Thanksgiving Thursday. He does not like my brother-in-law and his family is going to be there. The parts are for one of BIL's family members. He has now announced he isn't going to Thanksgiving...and will smoke himself a turkey. He is notorious for ruining every holiday acting like this...so I'm now trying to muster the courage to 'put on a happy face' and act like I just don't care...which he will be GREATLY offended by...and the wedge between us goes in deeper. I am, after all, supposed to react with complete sympathy, blowing off my entire family (first Thanksgiving without our Daddy) because he has decided he isn't going in a fit of rage over some door panels. (wow..doesn't take much to dredge up some of the old feelings, huh?)

I am shocked...and devastated at his behavior...and honest to God I am praying it is the meds. I called our counselor who suggested I call his doctor. He is furious that I called our counselor...asked for her number...and next thing I know we have an appt at 9 in the a.m. He says he is shocked by my behavior, that it does not "show love" at all. I am very sad and terrified that he cannot see that it is 100% out of love. I am very worried about him. He says he isn't taking the meds anymore "although they helped me"...and that is somehow my fault. This from a man who resisted for sooo long because, in his own words, "I do not want Sherri to suffer any ill affects of the medication. I don't want to be irritable with her like I was before." I am not so much angry as just terrified. Terrified that it isn't the meds...cause I've seen this kind of 'change' in him before...and it can happen overnight and be triggered by something as simple as a fight. I'm holding out all hopes that it is the medication since this is exactly what it did the last time (he wasn't any less ADHD then!!) and praying that he'll be back to normal and open to trying something else (for his own sake) soon. Praying. Doing a lot of praying. If it isn't the medication..God help us..only He could.

Our counselor thinks Vyvanse (SP?) would be more suitable for him. His only reasons for needing it are concentration/focus. He is typically a fairly mild mannered person.

waynebloss's picture

That is what I am taking!!

Vyvanse has been a wonderful introduction to my life!!  Is is an amazing drug, kind of expensive but found that Schnucks in St. Louis will fill it for $40/month which is VERY good!   Good luck with it, it has been a savior in my situation!!

We pay $25 co-pay for the

We pay $25 co-pay for the Concerta ($180 without insurance)...so $40/mo would be great.

Do you mind if I ask why you take it? (concentration? impulses? anger?)

He is now saying he isn't taking anymore meds, ever...even though they helped him in so many ways (I honestly think this is completely false..he has forgotten TWO meetings in the past week) and has never, at any point, made much mention of them helping him in anyway. I honestly think that if they were helping it would have been much more 'eventful' (i.e. he would have went on and on about it for days..and I would have gladly listened because I do love him and want the best for him). He is 'punishing' me by blaming me for him not being able to take meds...and insisting there is no way I love him or I wouldn't have told on him (so to speak) to our counselor. I am 100% certain that after our session tomorrow I will be able to come here and report that this is all ME. Either that I'm trying to control him by not wanting him to get 2 boxes of snack cakes or I am somehow squandering his money and that is why I need to do Dave Ramsey's financial rescue program. He is just in that 'mode' again...and it's so sad to me. I am not arguing with him. I am not mad at him. I am focusing on trying to HELP him..and praying like crazy that it is medication related and once he's off of this one, he'll be open to trying something else.

I just wonder..is there a thread here anywhere that discusses specific reasons people try (quit) 2-3 different meds before they find one that works? My logic tells me that this is what it did before...but my heart is still breaking and scared. I can't go back to this way of life. He is so irrational.

waynebloss's picture

I do not take conerta...just Vyvanse

The doctor I saw likes this medication and he says that this is the med that he has found with the best effects from his patients.  I tried the 30mg then up me to 60mg which is perfect for me.  It is $170-$190 without insurance, and I have a card from the makers of the med that take another 50% off the co-pay as well!  I have never been on any other medication and right now I do not plan on it!

 

Wayne

waynebloss's picture

Why I take It

I  take it to assist me in focusing on life instead of hyperfocusing on life and everything that happened.  It gives me the stimulation that I need to think clearly and the ability to think before I react. It is not all the medication, counseling and education has helped as well, but the med has given me a new life!!

Were it's positive affects

Were it's positive affects noticeable immediately? I read one thing that says yes, one thing that says no. You see experiences range from "it just helped take the edge off a little" to "WOW I now know what it is like to think normally!" I know that he's doing very poorly today, having not taken it. He did talk to his PCP and goes to see him Monday to discuss...whatever..not really sure. He is saying he wants something to take 'as needed' but I have no idea what he's saying. I said, out of frustration for him, that I wished we could find a psychiatrist that he could see so that they would know more about the meds and could listen to him and his thoughts and understand what he needed, and he got defensive as if I was saying it was his fault that we couldn't. I knew better. I just listen and say "Ok, honey" and that is as far as my input goes. He said I was welcome to go with him Monday...darn, I will be in school. It would just bite me in the ass if I did.

gigs26's picture

On trying meds

I would also be interested in a thread on choosing – trying – medications.

Wayne, I can’t tell you how envious I am of your finding an effective medication. I am a few months into trying medication for the first time, and while I have seen enough potential benefits to keep trying, it’s exhausting, both physically and emotionally. It was wrenching enough to admit to myself and my loved ones that I needed medication in the first place. My first prescription was a low dose of Adderall, which felt like enough to turn the static down in my brain without tuning it out completely, so my doctor prescribed a higher dose – which was horrible: I couldn’t fall or stay asleep, lost weight and all interest in sex, felt irritable and on edge when the drug was in my body, and had crying jags when it wore off. (Just try adding insomnia and emotional meltdowns to the “ordinary” challenges of ADHD.)

For all those problems, though, Sherri, it was my boyfriend who first connected them to the new dosage. He’s started asking me periodically how I like my medication, and I’ve found talking out my self-perception to be more helpful than keeping a journal; once I start talking about my own perceptions, I usually want to hear what he’s perceived as well, and I ask him. I don’t know if that round-about approach would be effective with your husband, but for myself at least, I appreciate that it keeps the reasons for and decisions about taking medication in my control, which is extremely important to me. Part of my motivation in trying medication is to give more of my best self, and less of my worst, which I hope will mean I treat my boyfriend the way I want more consistently; but it’s not just for his benefit.

It might sound strange that I didn’t connect my emotional turmoil with the new dose, even though the timing coincided completely. For one thing, I know I, like many others with ADHD, have a hard time with introspection. I’m also reminded of myself as a teenager when I first started menstruating; I would sometimes be easily irritated and more emotional than usual, without knowing why – and then, of course, get my period 2 days later. It’s easy to piece together after the fact, or for an outside observer, but I couldn’t do it in the emotional moment.

Anyway, my doctor kept me on Adderall at first, saying the side effects would probably lessen as my body got used to it, until it became clear the insomnia wasn’t going away (neither were the other side effects, but that’s what concerned my doctor most). Dr. finally took me off it, and I’m trying Concerta now; I’m cautiously optimistic, as I have noticed some benefits for my concentration and focus, without the major problems I had on Adderall, but I still don’t think I have found the right dose. I know there is no magic bullet, but from all I’ve read, and heard from my doctor and others, I can’t help but feel things shouldn’t be quite so hard.

Very helpful~

Thank you..this helped give me some insight as to what might be making him so defensive of my opinion and making him refuse to see what it was doing to him. (although I think he knew it, just didn't want to immediately admit it).

Everything I've read says that it might take MONTHS to get the right medication and dosage. I think my husband went into it expecting it to be much easier...and quicker. I'm praying that he'll have the patience to keep trying until he finds what is right for him and that he'll be more open to listening to my observations in the future.

He went back to the doctor today and got a new medication. He didn't tell me what he prescribed him...not sure why...but he wasn't going to tell me without me asking and we got side tracked and I never got around to it. He was falling apart (emotionally, mentally) on the Concerta...so I'm hopeful that whatever it is will help him. It sucks...but it just seems like it can be a long, trial-and-error process. Hang in there!

Sherri

Ironically, he has lost 10 pounds...

That first sentence made me laugh so hard, but I am also crying for you and scared for you (but also in the back of my mind wondering if/how I can get my husband so mad that HE would smoke a turkey).  But, I don't understand: did he make an appt with your counselor to get back at you somehow?  If so, isn't this a good thing? Perhaps deep down, something inside of him is scrabbling for safety, even if he won't acknowledge this to you out loud.  Once in a great while, my husband will get so lost in his crap, angry and accusing that he scares me too.  BACK IN THE DAY, I had a lot of friends who used recreational drugs, and I recall one friend who had dropped acid.  She was convinced at that time that I was the Devil.  The more I kept trying to prove I wasn't the Devil (?!?), the more certain she felt that I WAS, in fact the Devil.  I mean, how do you convince someone that you're not lying about not being the Prince of Lies? Anyway, I just stopped reacting at all- no smiles, no cries, no assurances.  I just sat with it, every so often nodding sagely.  I do this with my husband at his freak out times.  I just BEAR WITH HIM.  And try to remember that like always and everything, this will pass.  Continued prayers.  

See..there is more irony..he

See..there is more irony..he is furious about the car parts (therefore insisting he's going to stay home and just smoke himself a turkey) because he insisted the parts were gone, that my nephew had already gotten them...and I told him they were still here, I KNEW they were still here, and he insisted I was wrong. Why in God's name would this make ANYONE mad? "could you bring those car parts with you when you come?" ????!!! Why? Because his fuse is so short that it's insane! So..ask your sister to call your husband and ask him to get something from the garage...and maybe you'll get a smoked turkey.

He asked his friends and employees (2 of them) if he'd been acting any different...and they said no...so now I'm sure it is all in my head. Sigh...

Yes, he thinks it is 'threatening' to me to say he's going to call our counselor. I am ready to go..I'm sure it won't be pretty..he is furious and prepared to go in there and prove that this is all in my head...or that it is all my fault.

more irony...

I know that if this happened with my husband, he would be mad because he would say I am taking someone else's word/side against his.  He's big on "loyalty". And no, it wouldn't matter if I was standing in the doorway of the garage looking at the car parts talking to him on the phone.  He would say, "Those are DIFFERENT car parts.  THOSE car doors came from an exact replica of the car your nephew is talking about.  HIS car doors are gone." And I would be standing there with my eyes bugging out of my head, cartoon-like.  Then I would remember who I was talking to and say, "Can my nephew have the REPLICA doors, please?"  Yes, this is truly how its done around here.  

He asked his EMPLOYEES if he had been acting differently?  "Uh, no boss (sideways glance). Right as rain."  I hate when my husband stacks the deck like that! (I'm sorry- I know my posts are rather snarky, but its how I cope).  What I think is a great thing about you, Sherri, is that you are on this forum at all.  I think (know) that if you are too isolated from other "neurotypicals"  it is too easy to be gas lighted by your spouse.  I know when I stayed home for only two months with the birth of my first child, my husband almost had me convinced that everything WAS my fault/I was imagining things/ he never said that/didn't happen.  The minute I went back to work I was all, "You're full of sh*t."  So I am greatly impressed and admiring of your ability to keep one foot in each parallel universe.  Hang in there, girl.  I hope your counselor doesn't "fake the funk" tomorrow.  

Sherri, Hang in there - you

Sherri,

Hang in there - you must believe in yourself. All of your actions show how much you love and care about your husband and your marriage.  And sometimes, there is just no rationalizing with someone (ADDer or not) - my husband was completely convinced that I was the one that was causing all of the problems (even though he wasn't able to get along with anyone and everyone else was the problem not him - see a pattern here?)

My husband too lost weight on his med's (dexroamphetines XR) at first.  He needs it for focus and concentration - it helps but whenever I suggest that maybe he try something different he gets mad and says that med's are not the answer.  Its hard to understand why you wouldn't try something else that may work better for you rather than staying as is?

Anyway, what I have found with our counselor is that often times things that my husband and I discuss at home and argue over - he will bring to his session (alone) and then the next day he will be agreeing with what I had orginally asked for. Its as though he takes the suggestions from the counselor with more weight then me (which is good and bad) - its as though he still isn't trusting me and feeling that Im not supporting him (which Im not when he is so completely wrong that there is no way to be supportive (ie not spending time with daughter because she doesn't like to do what he likes to do - yes, this was a true issue and statement from my husband!).  So my guess would be that the counselor will understand the $3 box of additional snack cakes situation and will be able to explain it to your husband.   I would suggest that you make a list of this issues and bring with you so that you are prepared and are able to give the facts and let the counselor be the mediator.  It will get you out of the position of having to try and reason with your husband.

I feel for you and the cold shoulder that you are getting - but remember, move forward with yourself and what your needs are!  Even if his behavior is stemming from the meds - you still need to protect your progress. He is expecting you to react to his "bad" behavior in your "old" ways - when you don't he will not know what to think.  

From everything that you have posted (and other posters too) I can't see anything that you have done to cause issues - please continue to believe in yourself.

Prayers are coming your way.

  

 

In many ways, we are a match

In many ways, we are a match made in hell...because I have come to realize that I have very little ability to put myself outside of these situations...and that, just the same as the anger I used to feel, is not the best way to deal with this situation. I cannot NOT take it personally. I have realized that I still have a lot to work on with myself...I have done nothing but cry for 3 days now...my inner voice incapable of convincing me that it wasn't me...and even if it was, crying solves nothing.

His take on things is that everything was fine...he wasn't mad or upset today...until I called the counselor. I finally stopped texting him, it was getting nowhere. He came home from work and was his normal, loving self...as if nothing ever happened. We'll be going to counseling tomorrow...so I suppose we'll just see what he brings up since he wanted the appt. We weren't scheduled until next week. I hope she can help me convince him that it is the meds, but something tells me that he'll somehow convince her it isn't. He said something about me not understanding that the meds are making him 'think' in a whole new way and asked why I didn't understand how it would just take him time to adjust. I don't give a f*ck (excuse my french)...if they make him MEAN and NASTY to me and I literally have to sit like a knot on a log and say nothing for fear of being misunderstood then he can find something else. I don't see it getting any better...it is getting worse. He's adjusting to the point that he CANNOT see what it is doing! This is scary!

Thank you all so much for the support. I really cannot explain how much it helps. I am praying this situation will resolve itself soon. I have learned a lot about myself in the last few days. I know that the pain from everything last fall is mostly to blame for my insecurity and my self-doubt...and I really need to work on this. I cannot do this to myself again...everytime he has a bad hair day. I'm sure it isn't over, but I'm at least able to breath and relax a little this evening. I know I have to do this..I have to let him know what the meds are doing..and even if he blames me and gets angry thinking I'm ruining his life, at least I know in my heart I'm doing the right thing. I just wish he weren't making it so hard.

When I'm wrong, I'm wrong..

Car parts were gone..he was right. Damned old lady brain strikes again!!!

On a side note...he went to my sister's and shared Thanksgiving with us (our counselor somewhat shamed him into it) and we had a wonderful day. He was sociable and had a nice time. We stayed 3 hours..just like we agreed...and then left.

Did I mention how glad I am that he quit the concerta? LOL For once in our marriage his ACTIONS were different than his words..but in a positive way. He refused to admit he was a grouch (but will admit it now that he's off of the meds) but he made himself an appt and went and got off of them. That's a first! In the past he would say one thing (nice) and do another (mean). Yippie!

KUDOS to you Sherri

You have every right to let him know what he is like to you and you don't deserve to live in an environment where you are scared to speak for fear of his anger. And so as far as his co-workers not noticing any changes in him - I don't know that many co-workers would comment on changes in behavior to him and often its close family members that may notice something being off but not sure what it is-and so they don't say anything. (this happened to me where my brother noticed a change in hubby's moods and demeanor but was it was hard for my brother to know if it was just that day or a day to day attitude. And my husband liked to say the mean things to me and then act like it was meant as a joke - so I would look like I was a shrew & not being able to handle a joke, ect.  Or the quick fire temper over nothing!  Plus, I think that he choose to ask that group of people counting on their answer to be "no, nothing different" - stacking the deck in his favor.  Question - I think that you mentioned that your husband tried Concerta and reacted badly to it - is this documented with his medical file? The reason I ask it that he isn't trusting what you are saying about his chance of behavior/attitude but he may trust his PCP and the notes from the last time he tried it. That will put the task onto the PCP and not on you to have him see that he has had a negative reaction to that same med in the past - and maybe get him to try something new.  Or look at the write up the comes along with the prescription when it's filled to see what side effects are listed.  I didn't know it before but caffeine for my husband's med's affected his behavior and temperment greatly - and there it was listed as a side effect of caffeine use with his meds on the write up that came along with the prescription.  Oh and the doctor also upped his depression meds - not sure if your husband takes med's for depression or not. I hope some of these things can help.

 It sounds like you have had your emotional time processing this (crying) and are moving forward for yourself - KUDOS! What a difficult thing to see when you are in so much emotional pain. 

He asked his employees...like

He asked his employees...like they're going to say "you've been a complete jerk!" and his best friend..who he MAY talk to 2-3 times a week. He admitted in counseling today that his best friend did tell him he'd been a little distant...but tried to blow it off as 'because I was sick last week'. Some of the irritability was before last week, but it came to a head recently.

Different PCP since the time before. That practice actually went out of business...and this is the physician for the city (he works for the city) so he just recently got established with him. He knew going into his office that it had a very negative affect on him in the past..but he isnt' exactly his greatest advocate and let him prescribe it anyway. I'm 100% completely the opposite..no way, I would do without before I would take something that affected me negatively in the past. Too many other options. But, I made a very concious decision to have NO part in the entire process...and let it all be his responsibility...and he came home with Concerta. The doctor's reasoning was that since he was a caffeine junkie the previous time he took it (was he? who knows...even my husband can't say for sure if he was abusing energy drinks at the time or if that was later) that was probably why the negative affect. Sigh.

best wishes to you sherriW13

I wish you the best in your journey Sherri, and the pain is obvious in your responses.  I have been following the forum for  a few months now, and it has been my saviour and in particular your courage and self reflection and introspection that you have offered to many of the forum members.  I have been helped so many times, by just reading what you have said to many spouses of ADD partners.

I just wanted to let you know, that you have supported me and I would think many people through some dark, dark moments in their relationship.  You have been so positive and given people hope that our lives can be different, even though it might be only a small change.

But as I know you can only take on so much of the constant blame directed towards us, and deflection and denial, after all we are not super human beings, we do have feelings and no matter how strong we are, or how much we totally understand that perhaps our partners cannot always be responsible for their outbursts, behavioiurs etc etc etc..sometimes we need to be able to tell them just how their behaviours are making us feel....we need to be able to vent...it is not healthy to keep in all those emotions..you need to tell him even if it is at counselling....express your emotions....dont let him place the blame on you.....be strong....it is a partnership afterall....he must take some responsibility...accept nothing less.  I dont care whether a person has  ADD or not,they still know what are acceptable behaviours and what are not, if your partner saw another person treating a person like he treats you, I'm sure he would be shocked...he needs to be able to look in the mirror...thats how I got though to my husband finally.

My thoughts are with you, your past strength has kept me going with my partner...now I pass my strength to you...look after yourself first and foremost...dont forget that..you are a special person.

Many  hugs :))

Your words made me

Your words made me cry.

Thank you. If I have learned anything in the past few days, it certainly is that I am not as strong as I would like to be. It is easy to feel strong when things are going well. Add to that the fact that we went for so many weeks (maybe months?) without a fight and it really is like a kick in the gut. I used to could tell you exactly how long it had been..I would 'keep score' as my husband would say..since the last fight, the last time he did X, Y, or Z...and I got used to not keeping score anymore. It was a reality check...and one that I didn't see coming.

Counseling was exactly what I thought it would be. I started off by asking him to please trust me..to have some blind faith for once..that I wasn't out to get him, trying to harm him, trying to control him, or manipulate him in any way..that I loved him and didn't want to see him, me, or our marriage suffer..and to please believe me when I say that the meds have changed him. It didn't work...and he did, as I suspected, have our counselor convinced that it was probably just because he'd been sick, the adjustment in dosages (not taking into consideration that this started BEFORE the first increase even), etc. At one point I finally had enough and I just said "look, you both told me that my opinion was important..my observation was crucial to making sure the meds weren't having any negative impact on him..and I'm sitting here begging you guys to listen to me that they are..and you're making me feel like "I" am crazy!" I was so fed up. He remained obstinate and defensive. He said he wasn't taking the meds anymore, ever again, and wasn't going to try anything else. "NOPE!" was his reply when our counselor asked if he would be open to taking something else. He was "going to do what she wants me to do" and quit taking the meds.

Maybe you guys can relate, but it is almost like he HAS to go through this..he has to put his foot down..he has to be resistant and get mad and stomp his feet...and then after counseling he was fine. He is now having a very hard day (because he quit cold turkey) and I am urging him, in as caring a way as possible without telling him what to do, to call his PCP and consider taking something else to avoid this 'crash'. I am very worried about him. I do not want him to just stop taking it, I can't imagine what it will do to him...but it is like I told him today in counseling .. it isn't fair to me, to us, for him to have so many choices..and to choose to do nothing and think that is an OK option. He needs the meds for concentration and focus issues...but there is no excuse for staying on a medication that makes you an asshole when you have other choices. He knew this going into it that it would most likely do this to him. OH well, he threw a fit and now he's over it. If it makes him feel better to pick me apart, blame me, and get it all out of his system for an hour..and THEN do the right thing, I can live with that. He was mostly pissed off because TWICE he lied and TWICE I flat out said "you are NOT being honest."  First he said he had no control over the medication situation from the beginning...that he felt he was just being forced to do what I wanted. Complete and utter lie...I stayed 100% OUT OF IT intentionally...didn't even get involved with the insurance when they were refusing to pay although he asked me to. I did not ask him to take meds, I did not tell him not to start the concerta when I had a sick feeling it would do this again..I did NOT tell him what to do until Saturday when I demanded he stop taking them because they were making him a jerk again. Also, he claimed that when he got on his soap box about the 'real' reason behind his surrending of his debit card, that he just started out explaining that he'd done a good thing, gave it up for me, because his spending was a problem for me...and then said that I was the one who got mad and insisted that he see things my way. Completely false as well..he was pissed straight out of the starting gate...to which he responded "you're right, it is all the way you see it.."  I didn't respond. I know his version of the way things go rarely matches mine, whatever. He openly admitted to having a problem controlling himself and his spending...so I pretty much knew he didn't even believe himself Saturday..he was just mad and needed to 'buck the system' to feel better.

I will keep you guys posted! Thank you again for your support!! All of you!!

waynebloss's picture

Sorry Sherri, but time for him to grow up!

I am sorry but I need to say this!  Coming from a man saying to another man...it is time to grow up! I know what he is doing, I did it too but not to the extreme he is.  He is in his safe world, the world where he is safe and everyone else is to blame!  Coming out into a new world is very scary for us ADD folks, learning a new way to think, live and act that everyone else has lived in for years.  We are not liking he change, not liking the hard work that has to be done, the way it makes us look now and when we/others look back at how we were.  Some cannot face what they were and revert back to the safe world.  Like a kid who is 5-6-7 when they are stressed, scared or need to calm down you might find them sucking their thumbs.  This has a calming effect much like our ADD world has on us.  Yes it is chaotic, yes it is 1000 mph thoughts, and yes it is destructive to others around us but it is OUR world and we are used to it. 

I was there, I did not want to come out, but after I did, I was scared and felt alone, also I was very ashamed of myself as a person for what I did to the one person whom I swore in front of God that I would protect and love!  Those are hard feelings for a man to accept and feel. Remember, we were taught that there is "no crying" you are tough and you cannot show emotion.  I still feel some shame, I still beat myself up at times but I know that I NEVER want to go back there, never want to cause that much pain, suffering, anger to my wife and my kids.  It was time for me to grow up or be alone.

So, please hang in there, God, myself and ADHDmarriage.com support group is here if you need us! 

If anyone wants to connect, you can find me on facebook.com  My name is Wayne Bloss.

God Bless, Take Care and take a breath!

Wayne

See Wayne, that is what is so

See Wayne, that is what is so disheartening. He was FORCED (by me) to come out of his comfort zone/ADD world months ago. I made it perfectly clear that the slate would be wiped clean and I was waiting on the other side with open arms. The only catch is that I had no idea he had ADHD. I knew something was off but just figured we'd get in counseling, heal, move forward...and as long as he was willing to let me drag him all over town finding the right counselor, I was happy. I made it clear I was moving on..with or without him..and was NEVER going back to the way things were between us for the previous 6 years. I literally threw myself in 100%...although I stumbled and fell a few times...I kept trying until I got to where I needed to be...to prove to myself that I was done being the angry ball of emptiness. That is another thing that the past few days has proven to me, that I really have changed and was able to pull myself out of the situation and NOT fight with him..even when I felt he was being completely irrational and immature..and intentionally hurtful. I'm proud of myself. I won't give up my journey to see him through God's eyes and love him as God loves him..no matter how hard he makes it. I'm doing this for myself...and to help bring me closer to God. I did tell him today that I won't let him drag us back to the days of spending 2-3 days not speaking, stewing over things...that I do not do him that way anymore (it was my FAVORITE way to punish him...and it ended up becoming his too..sigh) and I expected the same respect and treatment from him. I mean it and I hope he realizes that.

So, anyway..he has maintained his frustrations, vocalizing them in a constructive, non-blameful way for months now...and so have I.  He has been accepting of things that would have caused HUGE issues for us in the past..and so have I. He has been in such great control of himself...and seems happier than ever...until he started meds.

Just days before my Daddy had his accident last Oct, he called me to get directions to my husband's mom's funeral...and I (REGRETABLY) told him that we were separated and a little about what was going on. My Daddy said "he just needs to grow up" and that was his only words spoken about the subject that day. I told my husband that...after my Daddy died (Nov 28, 2009)...and in a way I think it was a huge mistake. One thing you mentioned is how bad you feel about what you've done. Our last counseling session my husband cried for 20 minutes expressing his guilt and regret for everything he did last Fall. There are so many aspects of what he did...so many ways he feels guilty...that I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to forgive himself. My Daddy was soooo good to him...and he was cheating on me, and had moved out (before my Daddy's accident, after the accident, and after he died), and he knows that my Daddy knew he had left. He only went to see him the day before he died..and he was unconcious...so my Daddy never saw his face his last 30 days on this Earth..as he lay recovering from head trauma. He also wasn't there for me...and my siblings have always accepted and loved him, going out of their way for him..and he wasn't there for any of us. He lost his mother a month earlier. It was a horrible time. I hope he can forgive himself someday. It will keep us from moving forward if he doesn't. I know he feels the guilt is insurmountable most of the time. He is very ashamed..and this is causing issues for us.

In a way I want him to never forget the guilt...so that he doesn't repeat the behavior..but I don't want him to shut out my family...and me...because he just gives up because he can't forgive himself.

I think I found you, but your

I think I found you, but your profile is locked up so tight there isn't even an 'add as a friend' option. LOL (if you're the one I found...a child's eyes shot close up as your profile pic?) I'm on FB...but Melissa asks that we don't post our personal info here..so I'm not sure how to go about getting members my ID. Any suggestions admins?

Contacting the members

We continue to be very concerned about protecting our members' privacy. However, on our roadmap for site features, I have plans for a private messaging function, where if you opt in, other registered members will be able to send you a private message. I have not gotten to this and quite a few other "exciting" enhancements to the site as it is the annual budget planning season, and I have been exceptionally busy, but will try to get to it as soon as I can. That, and Melissa has a long list of less "exciting" features she has prioritized for me in a list. I hope you bear with me for a little longer. George

George

Enjoy your holidays, take care of Melissa's 'exciting' list...we'll be very patient. :)

waynebloss's picture

That is me

Yeah I locked it up but will loosen it up a bit.

Two with your name came up

Two with your name came up today...and the profile pics are different that the one I found yesterday...

There are actually a few people I would like to add/to add me on FB...hrmmm..

Input?

I think.. I am thinking too much...LOL..no, seriously, I think that I may have figured out what it is that has been bothering him..

1. It is the holidays. This alone causes extra stress for everyone.

2. very hard 'anniversaries' for us (he lost his mom 10/23/09, I lost my Daddy..whom my husband loved and respected greatly..11/28/09, we were separated 10/13/09, he had an affair from end of 9/09 until 11/24/09) and he has mentioned on more than one occasion that he knows it is a hard time, lots to remember about what was happening last year (without me even saying anything) and the guilt he feels..

3. I recently admitted to him that I wasn't doing a very good job of handling our finances and asked if he would please consider doing Dave Ramsey's program with me (a lady in my Bible study did it and LOVED it..and wants to host the program) and the implications of this for him are that he feels like a failure. I am beginning to understand that the reason he avoids discussing the finances is because just the hint that things aren't 100% Ok and he internalizes it and feels like a complete failure as a provider. I don't know how to undo this..or to help him understand that it isn't his fault or any reflection on him as a provider. I'm not sure there is anyway to do this. The damage is done. This internalization manifests itself (judging from the past) as anger towards me...resentment towards me. It explains the conversation we had last Saturday about the technicalities of his surrendering his debit card...bottom line, he was blaming me...and saying I am the ONLY person in the marriage who has a problem with money. My problem is that I obsess over it..and am struggling to keep us on a budget. I want to get ahold of it BEFORE we're facing irrepairable damage...that's all. I have so much on my plate that micromanaging our finances without some professional help seems impossible for me right now. Anyway...this explains the defensiveness...the snack cake issue...everything. My plan is to just listen to the e-book and do the best I can on my own. I won't mention it to him again. I would be happier dealing with it alone than dealing with it and fighting with him. He typically goes along with ANYTHING I want anyway...so I'm not sure why I really made such a huge deal of it with him.

Much of this revoles around his insecurities...and our counselor really hit home with that yesterday. I made it clear to her that we HAD to start doing work in this area...since it affects SO many aspects of our marriage. Would you guys think this is an ADHD related issue...taking any mention of anything negative about our finances as me personally attacking him?

Just like him taking it as a personal attack when I said yesterday "I really wish 'we could find you a psychiatrist who could listen to what you're feeling and prescribe your medications accordingly." he got angry and said "I am doing the best I can!!" I am really lost as to why he took what I said as something personal AGAINST him. ???

 

 

"I'm doing the best I can"

I hear that from my husband a lot, I know he does feel attacked by my obvious unmet needs and the obvious unmet needs of our household (like heat).

Ironically, my husband said his father used to say that to him and it drove him nuts. Father-in-law was a CPA who could/would not file his own family's taxes on time. He apparently had ADD, my husband sees his dad in his own behavior at every turn.

I think ADDers find it very hard to change anything. That's probably why my husband fights me like a wildcat on making what I regard as non-threatening changes, like trying to create a system for not losing his glasses. Yet he doesn't want things to be the way they are, so he demands that I change.

I don't know what the answer is. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone in this.

waynebloss's picture

It is hard!

Change is very hard for us, it shows us that we were wrong for all those years and it hurts!  We also hear you but our ADD takes what you say and turn it into an attack because we have been blamed, attacked and made to feel that we are stupid, lazy, and not normal!  You have no idea how hard it is for me to do things now instead of like I used to, I feel like a new kid trying to walk and EVERYONE is staring at me, making gestures, laughing at me or even thinking "he is a grown man, he should know already, WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM!"  That last statement I have heard all my life!! 

My wife would used to say that as well, along with her being a control freak, she used to but in and take over which would drive me insane!!  I would not comment, I would stew, boil and let it come to a head then I would lose it! If we WANT to change we will but sometimes change is something that scares me to death, so why change?  It also depends on what it is I am changing, why I need to change, if it is something that is petty but drives my wife crazy, I try to compromise with her first before I give in or just ignore

 

Just some insight from a ADD person about why change is so hard for us ADD folks!


Wayne 

Only getting worse...

Last I think I posted, we had an 'emergency' counseling session last week because things were taking a turn for the worst. He had been back to his lower, original dosage of 18mgs (concerta) for about a week at this point (Monday), but he was falling apart before my eyes. He was over the top with his usual complaints about his job and everything just seemed to be too overwhelming for him. He was defensive and aggressive in counseling, passively aggressively blaming me that he wasn't going to take anymore meds, was going to stop the one he was on cold turkey "although it helped me a lot", and wouldn't speak of considering alternatives. That afternoon he called his doctor and made an appt..to discuss alternatives.

He skipped one day of meds, but had a horrible reaction so he continued to take them until his appt yesterday. I thought he was doing better..thinking maybe just the increase, then decrease, then the antibiotics and him being sick, maybe it was worth a shot for him to give it another 2-3 weeks on the lower dosage..since he'd seemed to be leveling off on it about the time his doctor increased it. ARGH. His exact words to me were "I'm not doing well..I am falling apart in my head..I need to go see him and get something else"

:-( Yay that he's finally admitting it (although he would later deny it), but sad that he's struggling so much. He got a new prescription for Vyvanse (SP?) but it will be a few days..or longer..before they can fill it..the insurance is being a pain in the a$$ again. (saying he's too old for this kind of medication).

In the meantime he has to either stop taking the Concerta and face the 'crash' again...or stay on it and be paranoid, irritated, irrational, and mean. Praying that they get it approved and get it filled ASAP.

He is now convinced that they're going to fire him, although he has been given wonderful evaluations and constant praises. I'm afraid if he doesn't get off of this medication, he might just lose his job...he has made me feel like he is barely able to keep it together. I'm a complete basket case worrying about getting the phone call any minute that he's lost his job. I KNOW how paranoid he can be...I know how he can take small comments and run all the way to town with them...he claimed he felt this way because of 'some comments' made by a couple of people but would not elaborate. Part of me feels he's just over reacting, taking things the wrong way like he is notorious for doing to me...and then another part of me is afraid not to at least be prepared for the fact that he might just be right.

I SOOOOO wish he wouldn't have started the medication....and God help us, literally, if the Vyvanse doesn't work...or makes things worse. No matter how strong I might be able to manage to be, I'm not sure he's going to be able to handle much more. Medications (especially anti-depressants..and even Concerta) in the past have always made him just fall apart. I'm giving up hope that he'll ever have any chance of finding one that won't just destroy him...and us.

 

re: only getting worse.

Sherri,please know I am following your story and am hoping it all works out for you.  Hugs from a fellow non. Keep us posted.

Getting worse...Need to vent .

    Don't remember going to the "Fair" but I'm on a roller-coaster ! Don't remember writing the book, but "Crazy In Alabama" seems like a title for my life now !I get it no one...especially me is perfect, I just think trying to understand a mind that doesn't understand is not possibe.I hear ...explain that again ..don't treat me like yr child..baby I need more sex..how do we give respect, have desires for him when he is acting like a child, acting like a drill sergeant, angry like a pit bull and on a pity potty all within 15 min's.

 

   Like I said a few days ago I'm moving med- December, and he had said he didn't want me too, but in the next am said he did.Since then he has said if I would straitened up ie. give away 3 cats (I have 6 that also drive me crazy), give him sex everyday plus a certain act, and buy less groceries (which i pay for) I could stay.I just looked at him thinking you have lost your mind, but said I understand what you are saying , but what are your plans? I will get help for my craziness after you straitened up.He is living in a different world. I have plans to make those changes, but not with him.

 

   He has his Masters, has been employed for 5 yrs ( longest in his 51 yrs.),and has good credit.SO if he can grasp all of this then I'm not sure he not using adhd as an excise ...I'm not saying he's not adhd...he is and has  taken meds. in the past.

 

  

i feel your pain

Hi Sherri

Our stories are so much alike with the money and moods.  My husband's spending goes towards his computer, PS3 and buying/selling characters on World of Warcraft.  He is always wanting the "new" top of the line things.  He is back and forth as well.  He admits the things that he does and knows that he makes poor choices, and then turns around when we argue and points the fingers at me.  The new thing with him now is that he tells me "Its my ADD that is doing this", OR "You don't understand my ADD, you said you've been researching it".  How do you get your point across when this is what you are being told???? 

When my husband says things to me sometimes, it just makes me shut down completely to the point where I don't even know what to say, or what to do.  It could be something so small and he'll go out and say something terrible like "I'm not going to be with you much longer if you keep acting like this" or "You got problems, you need help, your crazy".  Really???  I really don't know how to react to these.  I try so hard to keep my cool, but deep down inside I am slowly dying.  All I want and ever wanted from my husband is to spend some time with me and his son.  That's all I ask.  I mean, I do mostly everything around the house. I only ask him to take out the trash and walk the dog.  2 things!!!!! 

I've been treating him the way I would like to be treated, but not getting the same in return.  I know that he has ADD and I have accepted the fact. 

You are lucky that he is going to counseling with you.  I am kind of afraid to ask my husband if we could do counseling together.  He is in the Army and I looked up some information on the internet and majority of the people are saying that if you are diagnosed with ADD/ADHD they will discharge you from the military if it affects your work.  Now I am afraid to say something.  If my husband gets kicked out, or let go, then he will really place blame on me.  I am even hesitating to go to the pastor tomorrow.  He is in the military as well. 

My husband and I are supposed to have a "talk" again in a little bit.  Its 9:30pm here in Germany.  Please wish me luck. 

My thoughts and prayers are with you and thank you so much again for responding to my post. 

 "you're crazy" "you're

 "you're crazy" "you're trying to control me" "stop acting like my mother" "it's all your fault" "I only do this because you're trying to control me" ... heard them all. If you're seeing some clarity and him taking responsibility for his actions occasionally, then most likely he knows what he's doing. Him blaming you helps him feel better about himself and it is much easier to blame you than to do some self reflection and admit wrong doing. This works both ways...I blamed my husband for my anger and resentment for so long, not wanting to admit that it was part of the problem and standing in the way of our ability to proceed forward with the marriage.

First, you don't 'get your point across' in the way that you've been trying. You're tuned out after 30 seconds anyway..so make it and leave it at that. You'll rarely get acknowledgment that you're heard, but when I stopped looking at my husband as a child who I needed to scold for 20 minutes just to make one simple point it improved things dramatically...especially my mood. I put down the mothering attitude and swore I'd never tell him to do anything ever again. I tell him "it really hurts me when you do that" or ask him to please consider how his behaviors make me feel...but then I walk away. He has ADHD, he isn't brain dead..he has ears that work and a brain that works too..even if it takes it a bit longer to 'swallow' the issues that involve emotion. The part of the brain affected by ADHD is thought to control emotions and feelings too...as well as information processing, impulse control, attention, and concentration. I figure this is why an issue that is emotionally charged MUST be handled without a huge ordeal...in a way that lets him know how I'm feeling, gives him a minute to say what he needs to say (even though it is sometimes still irrational..to me) and then I WALK AWAY. IT IS POINTLESS to have a conversation when you're angry and he's in 'ADD mode'. You're both shut down and it just simply does not work! Ah..if only someone told me this years ago!!

He happily goes to counseling...always has...and I am very thankful.

He stopped the Concerta...and

He stopped the Concerta...and says he is trying not to make a big deal of having to wait for the Vyvanse to be approved. I picked him up for lunch. He was about 50/50...50% the rational, caring man I've experienced for the last 4-5 months...and 50% the 'on the edge of being really pissed off' person the medication has made him become. I bit my tongue many times...and just let him talk. He read me the list of things he discussed with the doctor...and the most encouraging thing I heard him say was "we talked about how it would just take time, that what worked for one person might not work for another, and that we would eventually find what would work for me" *me doing the happy dance inside*

When I tried to say something at one point, he said "I told you that you were more than welcome to go to the doctor with me" in an angry tone. He said he didn't know what my thinking was...he was doing the best he could. I said "do you really want to know what my thinking is? What my concern is?" "sure", he said. "My thinking is that I'm worried that you don't see what I see" he then read the part to me where he said "my wife said she is seeing irritability and a short fuse" *again, doing the happy dance* but saying nothing, of course.

Baby steps...but it is progress. Again, praying the Vyvanse at least HELPS and doesn't harm. Please Lord.

hockeymom11's picture

can someone please explain...

can someone explain why the ADHD spouse feels the need to blame the non ADHD spouse for everything?  I read these posts and I could have written them myself.  Just this week my ADHD husband (on vyanase, just started) told me and I quote "everything that you say is a lie".  If I say "you didn't say that" or "I told you that", he will tell me "no you didn't, you lie about everything".

It's gotten to the point where I record conversations b/c he totally says that he never said this or that!!!  It's so frustrating.  I've been writing down my requests on paper and both of us sign it so he knows I'm not lying.  He also says my perception of things is warped and incorrect!!!

I can't stand it anymore.  My therapist is helping me, but without meeting him it's hard for her to even explain it. 

He's also spending money like a crazy person.  He told me "I can't move out of the house because I'll never have enough for rent", but when I checked the bank account I found out he had spent $840 THIS MONTH ALONE on x-box, microsoft, apps, touch phone, go cart racing and $200 for cologne.

I'm just venting I guess. I'm at my wits end and cannot wait until he leaves. 

Sherri, I hope it works out for you.  It sounds like your husband is trying.  wish I could say the same.

I think my opinion of why

I think my opinion of why they do that changes from day to day. Sometimes I feel like it is just simple reflecting. I have been called crazy, had the blame for everything placed on me, had my words twisted into something I did not AT ALL mean..and it is a far stretch for most people to be able to figure out how he got what he did from what I said. I KNOW it isn't me. It didn't stop me from feeling like a complete nut job sometimes...because if you hear something enough you start to believe it. When I am accused of being controlling, when I know that is not my intent, I try to think through it fast enough to not let it cause a fight...not let it push my buttons. I know that he's only saying it as a defense mechanism. If they accuse us of being controlling/lying it is easier than admitting that they are part of the problem. Usually this is a sign that he is in overload...when he starts saying the more irrational things...and to avoid things being said that cannot be taken back, I try and just turn the other cheek and walk away. Before I was hell bent on arguing with him until he admitted he was the one with the spending problem and that me being controlling was a separate issue...but now I just don't. I know it is his ADHD talking...and I just don't even go there. It was huge for me to learn to do this. That is about the best I can figure as to why they do this. I don't think they believe what they're saying...

hockeymom11's picture

makes sense

but it's so frustrating.  I try not to start fights and I try to walk away, but I'm so tired of being called a liar every day.  I know that I've made mistakes and said the wrong thing or forgotten something but NOT to the extent he blames me for doing it.  He's making me feel like I'm crazy and losing my mind!!!

Before thanksgiving I was trying to extend the olive branch and I asked if he would like to join us at my folks house for dinner.  He said "I don't know", I didn't want to push him so I asked "when will you know?" and he said "I'll give you an answer tomorrow morning".  Well tomorrow morning came and went, no answer, four days later still no answer.  We don't speak a whole lot anymore and I didn't want to be a "nag" as he calls me, so I took his response as a "no".  I made plans and a month later (like two days before thanksgiving) he says "I guess we have to discuss dinner".  I told him that I already made plans and I assumed his lack of response was a "no".

next thing I know he's telling my son after thanksgiving that "mommy told me she didn't me to come to dinner".  I was LIVID.  this was a complete and utter lie!!!   I know I should have reminded him twenty times to give me an answer, but he's a grown man and I don't think I should have to ADHD or not. 

it's so annoying.  I just want it all to be over and move on with my life peacefully. 

I can relate

I can relate to this hockeymom11. My husband is always saying stuff like that to our kids, such as mom doesn't love me, she doesn't want me here, she doesn't want me to go, etc, etc....

It doesnt' matter how often I say to him to stop because it hurts my feelings, it's a lie, and it hurts the kids the most. I tried saying in a nice way, tried yelling, tried every way possible, he just won't stop. When he feels threaten about something, or something doesn't go his way, he pulls that on us. Crazy thing.

I agree with you that ADD or not, that's just not right. I divorced him a few years ago, at that time it was HELL. The things he would say to the kids about me were horrendous. One day he was very angry and yelled at the kids saying that I was going to give them a new dad, he wasn't going to be their dad anymore. We were all in tears, the kids and I. Terrifying. Note that I was not cheating on him, I never did. He has to justify my decision to leave him by blaming on me rather than taking responsibility for the failure. So he decided on his mind that I must have been cheating. That was his answer.

I went back to him a year after the divorce and now I can see that was the WORSE decision ever. What was a thinking? Don't know. My justification was that it was better for the kids since he refused to see them or talk to them for the entire year.

During that time too he would call me names that I can't even repeat them here. Awful. I endured all that and was finally free. I loved it so much! My kids were really struggling. They started failing in school and were angry, especially my oldest. I found this to justify my decision to go back. I think that I am an enabler and codependent or I wouldn't have gone back. If I had actually done counseling and had taken care of my self I wouldn't have gone back no way.

I made some stipulations to go back together which he never followed (no surprises here) and I never enforced (not really as I should have). Now I see myself in worse shape than ever emotionally. I am stronger now, that's for sure, in a sense that I rarely cry, I dont' show emotions, I rarely talk much to him (at least nothing important), I am cold towards him, and I make all the decisions around the household. Don't know if this is really being stronger or weaker.:)

I hope that your life after you leave him be a great one. One advise: take care of yourself and if he asks you back don't do it until he has proven to you that he has made concrete and significant changes.

Good luck!

hockeymom11's picture

"I rarely cry, I dont' show

"I rarely cry, I dont' show emotions, I rarely talk much to him (at least nothing important), I am cold towards him, and I make all the decisions around the household. Don't know if this is really being stronger or weaker."

that's me in a nut shell.  I'm sorry you felt you had to go back.  I came from divorced parents and I turned out ok.  Your kids are resilient and it's his own loss if he doesn't spend time with them.  I'm not you, but I think I would leave if I were in your situation.  Kids' can get through this just like us with help.  I do try and take care of myself, but he makes me feel like crap and I'm angry when he is around.  When he isn't in the house it's peaceful.  I was curious (because my husband neglects the kids too) and I've started keeping track of how many minutes and how much time he spends with the boys.  I just started, but so far in three days he has spent a total of 5 minutes with the boys.  He started playing with my younger son when he asked, but only sat on the couch for 5 minutes watching him and then went upstairs and onto the computer.

I think we will all be better off without him around,but I'm afraid he will never leave.  He spends all of his money and he would rather live being miserable with no responsibilities than to stand on his own two feet and be an adult.  I know he will drag his heels.  He told me two days ago when I asked him for his "exit plan time frame" that he won't move out, because I will use it against him when it comes to child custody.  I told him I had no idea what he was talking about and that him moving out would have no bearing on child custody.  He told me I was lying so I had to write it on paper and sign it.  I offered to get it notarized as well. 

I'm just exhausted with the whole thing.  He has turned into one gigantic child.  Hope  you hang in there.  My thoughts are with you.

Hope it gets better soon

Oh Sherri, I hope it gets better for you soon.  This is just sucking all around.  My experiences with him trying meds wasn't this bad but it was a couple of months of getting hopes up only to see no difference and then just annoying side effects.  I liked him better off meds (which he is now) and hope he doesn't decide to go on any again.

I'm always reading your updates and hoping to see a happier one for you.  Good luck.

What did he take? What were

What did he take? What were the annoying side effects? It is my understanding that the 'results' are fairly immeidate...maybe having to give things 2 weeks at the most for adjustment and side effects to decrease. Why did he take meds? My husband just needs them for issues at work...he cannot focus or concentrate long enough to get much of anything (big projects) done. I'm hopeful it'll help with some of his impulses too.

Meds taken

Ok, several years back - before we met - he took Ritalin.  His ex said he got really really hyper and nervous on that and he stopped.

This year he tried Wellbutrin.  It had no effect concentration wise, but made him get up to pee throughout the night (thus waking me) and something I forgot (sorry).

He then tried Strattera and felt that it might improve concentration at work "a little bit". It changed nothing at home, except he had sexual side effects and got emotional (he would cry over the weirdest things).

In both cases it was my opinion that trying medication made things worse.  Nothing improved so all we had were dashed hopes, making us miserable.  Also the side effects were annoying (not traumatic, but annoying) and not worth it when there really was no marked difference.

He hasn't gotten the Vyvanse

He hasn't gotten the Vyvanse filled but has stopped taking the Concerta. He said he felt horrible when he didn't take it the one day last week, but for some reason, after talking to his doctor and him reassuring him that he pretty much 'goes off of it' everyday..12 hours after he takes it...he didn't have any negative reactions this time. Regardless, I'm glad he's off of it..he seems to be getting a little more 'control' of himself and his emotions everyday..and I see the 'old (i.e. new) him' coming back. Praise the Lord.

He said he's afraid to start taking the other meds...his insurance will drag their feet 'approving it' so it may be a day, a week, or a month before he gets it. I want so badly to beg him to wait until after the holidays. They are hard enough...and we had gotten to where we enjoyed each other so much and started laughing again and having a great marriage again...if the new meds do him the way the concerta did..or worse..it will ruin the holidays. I'm torn between asking and risking him thinking I'm trying to control him and thinking I have every right to ask for the sake of everyone here...but it feels a bit selfish of me. Suggestions?

OH...and to be even more

OH...and to be even more selfish...his sex drive has come back since he stopped the Concerta too...I can't win for losing. LOL I certainly would never ask him to stop taking it for that reason, I know he struggles at work and needs it, but I hope the new meds don't have that side effect either.

waynebloss's picture

VyVanse

I am glad he might be taking this, this medication has worked wonders for me!  It is a shame that my wife is too angry and bitter with me to see the changes that I have done, the changes she demanded of me she has not seen!  I think that you will be happy with Vyvanse, I know I am!! 

If I could have sex, not my choice but hers since Jan 2010, I would be happy to report the effects but since that has left our family I cannot help you in that arena!!

 

Take care Sherri!!  

 

I have changed my security settings on FB, find me again!


Wayne

Ok..tired...apparently you

Ok..tried...apparently you changed your profile pic. Did you? Two people w/your name come up. One is of a couple...and one is a picture of a male. The eyes of a child that I saw before is gone. ??

I am praying this VyVanse works for him. It is what our counselor felt would benefit him most...and apparently she talked to his doctor at some point. :-) Sadly, it is all just a shot in the dark. Just like with anything brain related, no one really knows how or what meds work..they just pick and choose until they find one that does. My son has seizures...I know all to well how anything neurological can be trial-and-error. It sucks.

waynebloss's picture

I hope it does too

Vyvanse worked for me, I just needed a larger dose....30mg to 60mg for me.  I think I might need a larger dose but will talk with my doc next month!  It is expensive but I found that Schnucks (grocery store) here in St. Louis is the cheapest to get it filled. Wal-Greens will kill you in price for this med, so call around....also ask your doc about coupons and other saving items for this medication. It is somewhat new and they are giving out stuff to make it cheaper. 

 

Good Luck!


Wayne

waynebloss's picture

Yep

My profile pic is my son in a tree! 

He started the Vyvanse

He started the Vyvanse today...so far, so good. The very first day on concerta he was moody, irritable, and felt bad in general..even physically. He stopped concerta earlier this week and his sweet attitude returned. I did share my fears with him about him trying something new right before the holidays (incase it made him irritable like the concerta) and he said he would stop it after day one if it it did. He isn't suffering the lethargy and irritability that he suffered the first day on the concerta...and no 'peaks' and 'valleys' either..so I'm very hopeful for him that it's going to work..or at the very least not affect him the horrible way the other did. :-)

Thank you all for all of your support through this...I had forgotten what it was like to have these horrible days and for him to be so easily irritable and defensive. I got comfortable with things being peaceful and happy here. I'm so thankful that it was just medication. Your kind words and support helped more than you could ever know.

I'm So Exhausted's picture

I was excited when my husband tried . . . . .

Unfortunately, it made his blood pressure go through the roof.  He had to stop. 

So sorry to hear that. My

So sorry to hear that. My husband is very thin and always has fairly low readings, but he was told to monitor his B/P for a while just incase. He goes back to the doctor in 2 weeks...but he'll stop in before that to check it.

I am terrified about this

I am terrified about this whole trying to find the right meds thing.  How many different ones did he try?  My husband is starting on Concerta today but I'm a bit afraid after reading what happened to yours.  It sounds like the effects were pretty immediate.  He's never been on any meds before, so we're both pretty nervous about everything.

Christina, I

Christina,

I understand...we were the same. My husband felt HORRIBLE (emotionally and physically) the first day he took Concerta..so yes, it was immediate that it was possibly not going to be the medication for him. He skipped a day, took it the next and didn't have the horrible physical affect (zero energy, anxiety) after that, as bad, but still never felt good when taking it. It was XR, so he would get 'spurts' throughout the day, never knowing when it would hit him, but he would get anxious, irritable, shaky, etc. He does not have regular eating habits, so that might explain the 'spurts'.

He was on it for 2 weeks and the doctor increased him from18mgs to 27mgs..it went downhill from there. The irritability was there with the 18mgs but was HORRIBLE with the 27mgs and even after decreasing back to 18mgs it didn't decrease. It was hard to get him to see it...and although he took the initiative to make an appt and get off of the concerta, life was stressful for several weeks. Once he stopped it, within just 24-48 hours he was back to his sweet, kind self. So far the vyvanse has had the opposite affect...it has given him more energy and none of the irritability concerta did. He really did not have control of his emotions when he was on it. He says he felt so bad physically that it just made him irritable constantly. He sees it and admits it now.

Best of luck! Just keep a keen eye on things and make sure to report to him any changes you see.

The last two days have shown

The last two days have shown wonderful potential for the Vyvanse! (dare I say that and jinx it!??)

The vyvanse seems to really open up his mind, do NOT make him irritable (quite the opposite...), and aside from a 5-6 p.m. 'crash' feeling (might be because he's not eating a lot too), they aren't making him feel lifeless like the concerta did. He is a lot more 'chatty' (not that he's not already a talker...which I LOVE).

I'm very anxious to see how he does today at work. Praying we've found the right meds for him! Keep your fingers crossed!

Sherri

waynebloss's picture

I crashed as well

I also crashed that early so I did not take it until noon or so.  I told the doc and he increased my med from 30mg to 60mg.  I think I might ask him if we can increase it een more...I still feel it but not like I used to.  Glad to hear that this med might actually work for you and him!!

Wayne

I'm so gald you posted this.

I'm so gald you posted this.  I was wondering how it was going with the Vyvanse (but wasn't sure where to post that question to you).  I'm happy to hear it's going well.  And fingers crossed for you (and him) that it works well at work, too!