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You and he have a different outlook on life. You are interested in the wider world and he is less so, he prefers to stick to his hobbies, his interests and not explore the world as you seem to want to do. Medication and therapy are not going to change this. He probably will never want to watch documentaries with you (even if he learned to tolerate them) and it has nothing to do with whiteness/blackness.
Love is not enough to build a lasting relationship. While you are both swirling round the drain in this volatile relationship (your frustration is radiating from the screen so intensely I am sitting at arms length!), life is passing you by. You are swallowing and crushing your own personality by spending your time wishing and hoping, harder and harder, that he isn't who he is. But he is. So what you are doing is a recipe for disaster, for you. And your frustration is probably very evident to him. So the harder you try, the worse it gets for him to the point where he gets involved in other activities to get a mental break from the pressure. And then sometimes he explodes.
Getting practical - 30 min appts every 3 month are clearly not long enough to get him the intense focus that he probably needs to get him to understand and learn to change his behavior, perceptions and reactions. Is there any chance of more therapy? There may be options with his medication - I'm not clear from your post if he has a therapist or general doctor who prescribes but if so then a psychiatrist specializing in Adult ADHD would be a good idea. If he already has a psychiatrist then ensure the psychiatrist is getting accurate feedback on the effects of medications - your partner is probably may not be able to accurately report the effects. Two books I have used are 'Change your brain, change your life' and 'Healing ADD' by Daniel Amen - they are useful for me because they describe the subtypes of ADD and the medications which may be appropriate. You mention being anti bigpharma but he has a physical disorder and it may be that he cannot function at his best without meds and an expert in the latest meds and how to combine them can make a huge difference in outcome.
But having said all that, you and he still may love each other and still be unable to make it work. Love is not enough to have children or to build a sustainable life together. I think you know it.
I've no idea if you'll see anything here as constructive. What I really want to tell you is to think very carefully whether, even if his ADHD was perfectly managed, is this the person you want to spend the rest of your life with or to be tied to forever by children. I think you would be frustrated and squashed from spending so much of your time on the relationship that you would never explore or interact with the world as you could do and as you want to do.
It sounds like you need a break, to focus on yourself. Is it possible for you (or him) to stay somewhere else for a few weeks? Decompression could do you both some good.
Have you read the info Melissa provides on this site? I've found it helpful. Look for other people's posts. I made a post a while ago where Tired-to-my-bones that put a lot in to perspective. She hit the nail on the head.
I wish you strength, patience and perseverance. Look into your heart and do what's right for you.
I have one child from a previous relationship and she's a perfect angel (she's 2, and I've got first time mom syndrome aka my kid is the best), and my husband (although isn't a gamer) sounds so similar to yours that they could be related, and I've told him, despite the fact that I'm desperate to have more children, I would *never* consider having a child with him based on his lying, stealing money from the family, and child -like behaviour, overall incompetence, and laziness around the house.....
How about some Sarcasm? Just kidding! Sorry you are dealing with this....I do suggest you print out this post...Separate from your partner for three to six months...Read this post everyday, until the reality of your worlds come into clear view....I don't think you will go back.
Your partner is someone you do not like...If he was a friend, you would drop him like a hot potatoes due to all his offensive behavior....It sounds like tunnel vision, stuck in his own little world...Anyone who can't agree with him is wrong....This is a sign of immaturity....Will he ever see life in a way that will make you not want to hit him? Probably not:)....So, If you can't accept him, and get over your desire to change everything he stands for...I suggest you take me up on the planned separation...Good luck finding a more peaceful existence, we all need it!
I so understand the world you are describing Dear Why. You are in a place where I have been for 31 years now. My husband and I were married when we were 26, and my husband was terrible at that age. (especially un-medicated) We only found out 8 years ago that he had ADHD, and the medication is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for him to function at any reasonable level. Now, my husband can see the difference in himself, and can tell when the meds wear off, because his focus and attitude change. He will tell me he either "can't talk now", or "can't focus, so I need some time until my medication kicks in". I've learned to respect that, and there is a big difference in how he can relate to me.
My husband only just recently started actually "working" on his ADHD, and taking it seriously. There are the beginnings of real change that I'm seeing, and I'm really glad about that, but I also sigh and think "Why did it take SO LONG, when I'm totally burnt out"? Living with unchecked ADHD has taken a severe toll on me and our family, AND on my husband even if he doesn't see the full effect yet of how his condition affects people around him. (he is just beginning to see that, so he has a ways to go) For the past 7 years, he was only taking the medication without doing behavior therapy, which doesn't work. He also saw a psychiatrist and we went to an ADHD counselor for 2 years, but neither helped us in dealing with the ADHD. It was like going to a regular counselors appointment where they ask you a question then say..."Well, how do you FEEL about that"? It didn't help. The most help we have had is in this forum and in reading Melissa's book, as well as reading a few other books suggested in this forum.
Your husband should NEVER, EVER hit you. That is totally unacceptable, and is not part of the ADHD but I believe some men's behavior can escalate to that if their anger goes unchecked as well. Please don't stay if that happens again, because your safety is paramount.
I wish I KNEW about the ADHD before I married my husband, because at least I would have had a choice. I wouldn't have sacrificed my life trying to love someone who was incapable (without treatment) of being a partner in a marriage, or a father to children. His brain is damaged or rewired in a way that only made it possible for him to see his own world in a distorted selfish way that didn't include many others in close interpersonal ways. It just isn't a healthy way to have a marriage relationship. And, he didn't get to live the life I believe he could have had if he had known about this illness sooner.
There is a GREAT post on this forum that you should read." FOR MEN WHO DON'T BELIEVE IT MATTERS" It's important for you to read, I think. Plus, if you plan to stay with this man, you MUST learn as much as you can about ADHD, and how it causes the "non" spouses to act and re-act in ways that are detrimental. (which I am guilty of also) You don't grow up knowing about mental disorders, and you especially don't expect to have it in your own relationship. It's very hard. I wish you all the best. Hugs.
You've said a lot today and I haven't had much time but
"He says his doctor asked him 'Why do you want to be medicated at home anyway?' which makes me really angry. Isn't his doctor the fucking expert? "
Supposed to be. I see how you are stuck here because it seems this is the only doctor you have access to. Is that right? Given the choice I would dump him (the doctor, not the partner) on the strength of this alone. Yes, his ADHD permeates everything in his life and needs management in evenings and weekends too (how can this even be debatable by the doctor? Uh..) This is a big problem, can you brainstorm to see whether you can access a second opinion somewhere?
"Years ago he got his medicine and things were hella good. I don't know if I can stand the downward spiral, get stronger meds, rinse, wash, repeat."
Has he only taken methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta etc) or has he tried other stimulants. Some people develop a tolerance then are switched to another stimulant for a while until they develop tolerance again, rinse and repeat. Depending where you are a dr may be reluctant to prescribe Adderall or Dexedrine, and it's yet another reason why a competent psych is a tremendous help because they (a) know what meds to try and what combinations and (b) can help fight off pharmacists who think people may be drugseekers. (Yes, I realise you may not have access to a different doctor but it's important for you and others who may come later to know that there are other options if a first med stops working).
"DAMN. I thought CBT, talk therapy, maybe a life coach and couples counseling would solve everything. OH NOES! This is bleak."
No, if he really has ADHD then it is a neurological disorder, it will never disappear and if affected moderately to severely (as he seems to be) it may be that he needs medication to get any (longterm) benefit from counselling. CBT - we have no experience. So I am going from the perspective of my husband and some in his extended family who need medication before anything else has a chance of working.
"I feel guilt for being that person who knows he is just easier to deal with on his medication, its like I'm abusing the convenience shouldn't their be other tools?"
Look at it this way. His medication allows him to function better in a majority non-ADHD world. The meds are for him, not you. Other tools exist for improving social relationships, but if he has a neurological disorder he cannot use them in the same way you can until he's wearing the brain glasses. And even with brain glasses he will not be able to think exactly as you do.
"My worst fear is becoming that overly critical, emotionally and verbally abusive, miserable person who can't find joy in anything."
Do you two ever spend time just having fun alone? What are your outlets - ones that get you out of the house?
Dear Why, when someone is disordered, he behaves in a disorderly fashion. Trying to create order from the product of a disordered mind is futile.
Your love for him does not change that fact of life.
I cannot even count the number of times my counselor had to say this before it began to sink in to my reality: Your mate cannot love you the way you want to be loved. He can not.
No amount of dedication, self sacrifice, devotion, compromise, tenderness, compassion, and empathy can spark reciprocal qualities in my spouse. He is like a bucket with a hole in it, never to be filled to overflowing, insatiable.
His response will always be, "but what have you done for me lately?"
With my own self education about his disorder, and with counseling and a solid support system, I could choose to live with this knowledge and stay with him, if he were willing to pursue his own self education and counseling, take appropriate meds, and respect my boundaries as an individual without punishing me for having them. None of that would change him at the core, but would definitely improve the emotional climate around him. Will he take that route? That is his choice. And I must accept his choice, whatever it may be, because I am the only one for whom I can choose.
WhyDoesHeActLikeThis
Submitted by sunlight on
You and he have a different outlook on life. You are interested in the wider world and he is less so, he prefers to stick to his hobbies, his interests and not explore the world as you seem to want to do. Medication and therapy are not going to change this. He probably will never want to watch documentaries with you (even if he learned to tolerate them) and it has nothing to do with whiteness/blackness.
Love is not enough to build a lasting relationship. While you are both swirling round the drain in this volatile relationship (your frustration is radiating from the screen so intensely I am sitting at arms length!), life is passing you by. You are swallowing and crushing your own personality by spending your time wishing and hoping, harder and harder, that he isn't who he is. But he is. So what you are doing is a recipe for disaster, for you. And your frustration is probably very evident to him. So the harder you try, the worse it gets for him to the point where he gets involved in other activities to get a mental break from the pressure. And then sometimes he explodes.
Getting practical - 30 min appts every 3 month are clearly not long enough to get him the intense focus that he probably needs to get him to understand and learn to change his behavior, perceptions and reactions. Is there any chance of more therapy? There may be options with his medication - I'm not clear from your post if he has a therapist or general doctor who prescribes but if so then a psychiatrist specializing in Adult ADHD would be a good idea. If he already has a psychiatrist then ensure the psychiatrist is getting accurate feedback on the effects of medications - your partner is probably may not be able to accurately report the effects. Two books I have used are 'Change your brain, change your life' and 'Healing ADD' by Daniel Amen - they are useful for me because they describe the subtypes of ADD and the medications which may be appropriate. You mention being anti bigpharma but he has a physical disorder and it may be that he cannot function at his best without meds and an expert in the latest meds and how to combine them can make a huge difference in outcome.
But having said all that, you and he still may love each other and still be unable to make it work. Love is not enough to have children or to build a sustainable life together. I think you know it.
I've no idea if you'll see anything here as constructive. What I really want to tell you is to think very carefully whether, even if his ADHD was perfectly managed, is this the person you want to spend the rest of your life with or to be tied to forever by children. I think you would be frustrated and squashed from spending so much of your time on the relationship that you would never explore or interact with the world as you could do and as you want to do.
I've lurked this forum for
Submitted by WhyDoesHeActLikeThis on
:(
It sounds like you need a
Submitted by dweeb on
It sounds like you need a break, to focus on yourself. Is it possible for you (or him) to stay somewhere else for a few weeks? Decompression could do you both some good.
Have you read the info Melissa provides on this site? I've found it helpful. Look for other people's posts. I made a post a while ago where Tired-to-my-bones that put a lot in to perspective. She hit the nail on the head.
I wish you strength, patience and perseverance. Look into your heart and do what's right for you.
I have one child from a previous relationship and she's a perfect angel (she's 2, and I've got first time mom syndrome aka my kid is the best), and my husband (although isn't a gamer) sounds so similar to yours that they could be related, and I've told him, despite the fact that I'm desperate to have more children, I would *never* consider having a child with him based on his lying, stealing money from the family, and child -like behaviour, overall incompetence, and laziness around the house.....
I think I do need a break. I
Submitted by WhyDoesHeActLikeThis on
:(
Dear why, are you ok? You
Submitted by dweeb on
Dear why, are you ok? You erased all your posts! I'm thinking of you...
He acts that way because it's who he is, same reason you do.
Submitted by c ur self on
How about some Sarcasm? Just kidding! Sorry you are dealing with this....I do suggest you print out this post...Separate from your partner for three to six months...Read this post everyday, until the reality of your worlds come into clear view....I don't think you will go back.
Your partner is someone you do not like...If he was a friend, you would drop him like a hot potatoes due to all his offensive behavior....It sounds like tunnel vision, stuck in his own little world...Anyone who can't agree with him is wrong....This is a sign of immaturity....Will he ever see life in a way that will make you not want to hit him? Probably not:)....So, If you can't accept him, and get over your desire to change everything he stands for...I suggest you take me up on the planned separation...Good luck finding a more peaceful existence, we all need it!
I was a little worried about
Submitted by WhyDoesHeActLikeThis on
:(
So sorry...WhyDoesHeActLikeThis
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I so understand the world you are describing Dear Why. You are in a place where I have been for 31 years now. My husband and I were married when we were 26, and my husband was terrible at that age. (especially un-medicated) We only found out 8 years ago that he had ADHD, and the medication is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for him to function at any reasonable level. Now, my husband can see the difference in himself, and can tell when the meds wear off, because his focus and attitude change. He will tell me he either "can't talk now", or "can't focus, so I need some time until my medication kicks in". I've learned to respect that, and there is a big difference in how he can relate to me.
My husband only just recently started actually "working" on his ADHD, and taking it seriously. There are the beginnings of real change that I'm seeing, and I'm really glad about that, but I also sigh and think "Why did it take SO LONG, when I'm totally burnt out"? Living with unchecked ADHD has taken a severe toll on me and our family, AND on my husband even if he doesn't see the full effect yet of how his condition affects people around him. (he is just beginning to see that, so he has a ways to go) For the past 7 years, he was only taking the medication without doing behavior therapy, which doesn't work. He also saw a psychiatrist and we went to an ADHD counselor for 2 years, but neither helped us in dealing with the ADHD. It was like going to a regular counselors appointment where they ask you a question then say..."Well, how do you FEEL about that"? It didn't help. The most help we have had is in this forum and in reading Melissa's book, as well as reading a few other books suggested in this forum.
Your husband should NEVER, EVER hit you. That is totally unacceptable, and is not part of the ADHD but I believe some men's behavior can escalate to that if their anger goes unchecked as well. Please don't stay if that happens again, because your safety is paramount.
I wish I KNEW about the ADHD before I married my husband, because at least I would have had a choice. I wouldn't have sacrificed my life trying to love someone who was incapable (without treatment) of being a partner in a marriage, or a father to children. His brain is damaged or rewired in a way that only made it possible for him to see his own world in a distorted selfish way that didn't include many others in close interpersonal ways. It just isn't a healthy way to have a marriage relationship. And, he didn't get to live the life I believe he could have had if he had known about this illness sooner.
There is a GREAT post on this forum that you should read." FOR MEN WHO DON'T BELIEVE IT MATTERS" It's important for you to read, I think. Plus, if you plan to stay with this man, you MUST learn as much as you can about ADHD, and how it causes the "non" spouses to act and re-act in ways that are detrimental. (which I am guilty of also) You don't grow up knowing about mental disorders, and you especially don't expect to have it in your own relationship. It's very hard. I wish you all the best. Hugs.
dedelighted4, I just posted
Submitted by dweeb on
dedelighted4, I just posted the link to that article to someone else, so it's still on my computer. The link referenced above is this one: http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/men-adhd-who-arent-convinced-it-matters
I like that. The thought of
Submitted by WhyDoesHeActLikeThis on
:(
Hold up a minute
Submitted by sunlight on
You've said a lot today and I haven't had much time but
"He says his doctor asked him 'Why do you want to be medicated at home anyway?' which makes me really angry. Isn't his doctor the fucking expert? "
Supposed to be. I see how you are stuck here because it seems this is the only doctor you have access to. Is that right? Given the choice I would dump him (the doctor, not the partner) on the strength of this alone. Yes, his ADHD permeates everything in his life and needs management in evenings and weekends too (how can this even be debatable by the doctor? Uh..) This is a big problem, can you brainstorm to see whether you can access a second opinion somewhere?
"Years ago he got his medicine and things were hella good. I don't know if I can stand the downward spiral, get stronger meds, rinse, wash, repeat."
Has he only taken methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta etc) or has he tried other stimulants. Some people develop a tolerance then are switched to another stimulant for a while until they develop tolerance again, rinse and repeat. Depending where you are a dr may be reluctant to prescribe Adderall or Dexedrine, and it's yet another reason why a competent psych is a tremendous help because they (a) know what meds to try and what combinations and (b) can help fight off pharmacists who think people may be drugseekers. (Yes, I realise you may not have access to a different doctor but it's important for you and others who may come later to know that there are other options if a first med stops working).
"DAMN. I thought CBT, talk therapy, maybe a life coach and couples counseling would solve everything. OH NOES! This is bleak."
No, if he really has ADHD then it is a neurological disorder, it will never disappear and if affected moderately to severely (as he seems to be) it may be that he needs medication to get any (longterm) benefit from counselling. CBT - we have no experience. So I am going from the perspective of my husband and some in his extended family who need medication before anything else has a chance of working.
"I feel guilt for being that person who knows he is just easier to deal with on his medication, its like I'm abusing the convenience shouldn't their be other tools?"
Look at it this way. His medication allows him to function better in a majority non-ADHD world. The meds are for him, not you. Other tools exist for improving social relationships, but if he has a neurological disorder he cannot use them in the same way you can until he's wearing the brain glasses. And even with brain glasses he will not be able to think exactly as you do.
"My worst fear is becoming that overly critical, emotionally and verbally abusive, miserable person who can't find joy in anything."
Do you two ever spend time just having fun alone? What are your outlets - ones that get you out of the house?
I've always been frustrated
Submitted by WhyDoesHeActLikeThis on
:(
:{
Submitted by Standing on
I know that look.
Dear Why, when someone is disordered, he behaves in a disorderly fashion. Trying to create order from the product of a disordered mind is futile.
Your love for him does not change that fact of life.
I cannot even count the number of times my counselor had to say this before it began to sink in to my reality: Your mate cannot love you the way you want to be loved. He can not.
No amount of dedication, self sacrifice, devotion, compromise, tenderness, compassion, and empathy can spark reciprocal qualities in my spouse. He is like a bucket with a hole in it, never to be filled to overflowing, insatiable.
His response will always be, "but what have you done for me lately?"
With my own self education about his disorder, and with counseling and a solid support system, I could choose to live with this knowledge and stay with him, if he were willing to pursue his own self education and counseling, take appropriate meds, and respect my boundaries as an individual without punishing me for having them. None of that would change him at the core, but would definitely improve the emotional climate around him. Will he take that route? That is his choice. And I must accept his choice, whatever it may be, because I am the only one for whom I can choose.
Hope that helps some.