Hello to all again - splitting off a sub-topic from my first attempt at posting here (which seems to have a ton of new replies since I last checked)...
I find myself stuck in a very deep rut for the last 2-3 years when it comes to saying things to my partner when she's upset, or to keep her from getting upset in the first place. "Second-guessing" was listed as a hurtful pattern in an ADHD marriage, but in my case it goes the other way. Her anger and her instantaneous blow-ups have things stuck in neutral.
If there's one loooong and comprehensive list I could spit out on demand, it's all the hurtful jabs or retorts my (non-ADHD) spouse has thrown my way over the years. Not that I didn't deserve them, and not that she wasn't trying to make herself feel a bit better, but I have unfortunately cataloged all of them to the point where I'm tied up in knots when it comes to saying anything at all.
Some of the things I've read in books which seem laughable now: using humor to defuse tension, asking for credit on a different issue, requesting to talk about it later, saying the word "sorry", the word "try", or the phrase "I know that you must be", pointing out why my actions just hurt her, saying that we can make it better next time, I really do care, asking for a hug, saying that we need a 20-minute cool-down.
The index of angry replies is long: you don't care and you haven't for years -- don't try to hug me and don't even get near me -- man up for once and just let me yell at you -- don't just walk away you sissy -- don't make jokes about my pain -- don't you dare change the subject -- don't say "sorry" if you do this again and again -- this is ruined forever so don't talk about tomorrow -- just make believe you fixed it so you can get out of bed tomorrow without feeling like shit -- don't say "try", you don't try, never have, never will ........ etc.
I would like to make it clear to her just how stuck I feel in these situations, and to ask for us to meet in the middle somehow. But I get accused of needing to be "spoon-fed" and having her do all the effort. (What can I do to make you feel better right now, or to help you understand I'm sorry? NO SPOON-FEEDING!) So I sit and think of all the possible directions which will get me screamed at, called names, or worse. I guess one (or two, or three) times is enough for me to strike a particular remark or word from the records.... but I must be too hyperfocused or logical... not seeing the emotions, or the bigger picture, ever.
Recently I was told something a bit new: my wussy parents clearly raised a wimpy child who can't "push his way through the tough stuff" to get to the heart of the conversation he thinks should happen. And yet, enduring the screaming in my face :L"you knew that would infuriate me"... "why do you always have to push me more"... "you just love to escalate these talks until I hurt myself"... "I shouldn't have to tell you how to show me you care"... further down the dead-end street... just seriously frustrated here and feel like I'm missing something painfully obvious...
How long have you been
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
How long have you been married? Have you tried marital counseling? Are you being treated for ADHD?
Hello again overwhelmedwife -
Submitted by JohnWilson on
Hello again overwhelmedwife - at the risk of repeating what I put at the top of my other thread: Married 7.5 years. Did marital counseling in 2012-13, although at least 75% of those visits were for me alone involving my own anxiety and ADHD. I've been on medication for about 4 years but no therapy sessions at the moment...
oh wow...
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I forgot who you were. You're the one with the wife that I think has something seriously wrong with her....throwing and breaking things in anger, easily angered, etc.
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Things are filtered through her lens a lot these days. Trying to point out a mistake = she's a moron. I suggest a thing that she said last week = her words mean nothing to me. Saying that we should postpone a conversation before it gets escalated = her feelings are so insignificant that I can't wait to run away. Tough day at work = she works so hard for zero return. Trying to read a book to understand more about ADHD = too lazy to talk to your spouse instead. Budget is tight this month = no matter how hard she tries we'll always be underwater. I write her a nice Christmas card = hers isn't written that well because she's dumb. Sitting in a nice restaurant, she'd joke that nearby people say, "who let those shlubby people come and eat here?" Leaving a friend's house, she'd joke that they thought, "boy, aren't we sorry we invited those two over for dinner again."
Pointing out that she might be overly sensitive, or maybe should examine her own feelings, leads to crying and statements like: "if you think I'm such a loser, then just leave here right now."
Won't entertain the idea of taking a break, cooling down, or agreeing to talk through an argument later. Instead I am running away, being a coward, trampling on her and her feelings. She would prefer that I "say something meaningful" right now, but won't discuss further because I "should just know".
If I have an angry outburst on my part, pounding my fist on the table or shouting "stop it"... switches immediately to crying, statements about how she is all alone in this life, no one loves her. Threats of self-harm, just going away forever, suicide by car accident, etc.
Since arguments inevitably escalate, her anger goes into strong and frightening places. In the last 3 years, I have had clothing ripped, CD's snapped in half, drywall cracked, childhood mementos cut apart, dinners dumped into the trash. Any apologies have been framed as: "you made me so mad that I had no choice, because I don't know how else to make you understand." The only canned response which works is for me to say, "yes, it was really me who broke that, because I made you do it."
Since I cannot walk away, call for a break, ask to not have my belongings broken, or have an outburst, I sit still and try to react quietly and calmly. What I get told is that she "must mean nothing at all, if this is the most I can muster up out of you." Attempts to explain this flat reaction are "escalation" because I wind up saying too much.
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I think you need to continue with therapy. At some point, your wife will likely insist on joining you. If not, then I suspect that deep down she knows that her behaviors aren't right, and doesn't want to be told that by a 3rd party.
Hi John
Submitted by kellyj on
What you said here If there's one loooong and comprehensive list I could spit out on demand, it's all the hurtful jabs or retorts my (non-ADHD) spouse has thrown my way over the years.
If you stop right here and think about what you said......this is the thing that you have to process and deal with yourself whether it's you wife or anyone else. The negative thoughts and ruminating about this is the very thing that will keep you from getting past it.(it's also a common problem for us who have ADHD. More so I think than on average) This is where I say.....you need to learn to let this go. Can I do this?.....not very well!
But I'm working on it and it does help to clear you mind of these things and not let them affect you in the future. This is something that you can't control in other people and you can only control how you feel here. If you can't learn to control this one aspect you mentioned....you will always feel exactly like you do now. This one's all on you to do anything about.
But venting sometimes never hurts if that's how you need to get rid of it. If you need someone to vent to....you can always do it here....you won't be alone:) FYI: this is where therapy can be helpful too. It'll help you learn how.
PS I just read about you going to counseling for the time you have already. I'm surprised your T hasn't mentioned this? It was the first thing that my T did with me and the first thing that I started working on with him? If this T isn't helping with this after 7 1/2 years....I might try another therapist?
J
JJamieson your comments help
Submitted by JohnWilson on
JJamieson your comments help a lot — which seems to be a common theme around here, so kudos to you :)
You're right to point out my fixation on the years of hurtful words... on a logical level they're boxing me in from trying to say this or say that. But on the real emotional level, I've let myself get hung up instead of forgiving and going past them. Bringing them up again in a moment of hurt really just piles on more hurt.
Something said by therapist once was about getting to the emotional meaning behind the hurtful words, which I sense is harder and more frustrating for me than for the average person. An old remark from her was, "Stop this hysterical crying when we fight. Be a man and sit there and take it. Crying just means you're trying to make it all about you." Following her advice just made her angrier ("Why are you staring at the wall and not giving me any reaction?").
To try to peel it back to the emotional core: I want a man who can be strong and put me before him when I'm upset. Please step up to the plate and help me fix my hurts. My behavior may look and sound a certain way that upsets you, but please remember that there's still "me, your wife" underneath it.
Yep...Good Advise
Submitted by kellyj on
getting to the emotional meaning behind the hurtful words, which I sense is harder and more frustrating for me than for the average person. Yes and yes. Check all the above. This works too...very well. It seems.....we have to do this where other people don't...or not as much? I've used the words....putting things in their proper place....which is my way of saying the exact same thing. This really will help you if you learn how to do this better. Worrying about why or that other people may not have to is really unnecessary. It is what it is? Doing your best to keep negativity out and staying that way by doing what ever you can to do this will help you in leaps and bounds if you focus on just that much as one of your primary goals on a daily basis. Practice makes perfect! It really does work! I'm glad that was a good tip for you to use:)
J
Hi John
Submitted by c ur self on
J gave you great advice...I've been married to my add wife for 7.5 years also... She, like you can remember all the comments (hurtful) I've made over the years. We're working past it, but, it all came about because we were so different, and to be honest her way of living was and still is very intrusive. I stayed upset most of the time wondering why she hated me, and asking myself questions like how can a human being live this way? (Before reading Driven to distraction, and other books) All along it was just her normal way of acting and thinking...Most add and non's are so different we struggle to handle the difference....Every individual just feels and see's their own pain for the most part....So until I accepted her for who she is and she accepted me for who I am, we never could go forward....
We still have words at times, but, we are learning to keep it civil...Her add is so severe, communication is very difficult....Your high lighted statement about using words to diffuse her or limit her emotional state...Good luck with that Ha Ha....I've come to realize, I'm not responsible for her actions or unstable emotions, (but I am my own) and anything I say will be turned on me if I try to help...So smile and walk away is my advice....John, life is to short for you and I to walk on egg shells...Maybe you are stronger than I am....But, diving in with a fix-it attitude only make's it worse in my marriage.
Best case scenario for me is....If she does something or say's something (anger outburst) grabs her purse and runs out the door, let her go. Because if I will not reply (huge IF) with my own insult. She will come around and give me a huge and an "I am sorry"....So I've learned to accept her sorry, because she is sorry, even though we both know it's not going to change much:)
C