I will keep this simple. My husband does not keep in touch with his younger brother who has a son born 2001. He has only hung out with the kid three times and is NOT close to him at all. He has stopped talking to his best friend since last year, when I left my H for a month and his best friend sided with me since he knows my H. Last year, my husband mentioned that he feels he is a bad brother. He wanted to write this wordy email to him and I told him that he could do that but actions will make him a better brother. Calling, texting, keeping in touch. Well that was last year. His brother wants to know what is up with him. His best friend is not knocking down the door for his friendship back but he said he will always be there when my H decides he wants to be in his life again. Its all very sad.
The other day, my H told me that he can't believe that his half sister and his half nieces have disconnected themselves from him cold turkey since 2006. They don't return calls and they don't contact him at all or me for that matter. It was abrupt and I always wonder why. But it does weigh on his mind. So I told him that this should remind him of how he needs to be in touch with his blood relatives, like brothers and nephews before they forget who HE is too. I hear crickets.
He can easily remember who abandons him but he has such problems keeping in touch with others and also can be very vindictive. He would deny it of course. He doesn't call my Mom, my family, which I understand since he doesn't call his own family. I can straight up tell him that someone is having a rough time and he should call and he won't, sometimes he even tells me no. Very sad. How do you NOT call you family, especially when you have a wife reminding you to keep in touch? I even told him that his brother was very depressed and he didn't bother to reach out. I am the complete opposite and am very in touch with people's feelings and alwayts trying to help someone. I know I am not him and I don't have his issues. Funny is that people, especially elderly, feel he is generous and helpful but his intimate circle, not so much.
So my question: should I just let this go and let the people affected tell him how they feel themselves? I have reminded him many times and he even told me he has pushed everyone away.
He tries to impress so many people yet can't send a simple text to let his blood know he loves them. These are things that he will feel when someone he loves dies. It's such a shame. I know I can't fix everything or even anything. I hate seeing his life decompose in front of my very eyes. He has such potential. He refuses therapy and meds. His choice therapy is tv/laptop and overcompensation. He gets accolades and stroked with his job, since he is an entertainer/DJ. People compliment him so much, but they are strangers.
What do you think?
Helping is the sunny side of controlling
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
notgonnalosemyself ,
"So my question: should I just let this go and let the people affected tell him how they feel themselves? I have reminded him many times and he even told me he has pushed everyone away. "
I can respond from my own experience, based on having been there and done that.
It has taken me a long time to realize how much of my life I was giving up, by thinking i could be the helper to others. Included in this is my alcoholic father, all my siblings affected as I was by that alcoholism, my ADHD spouse, my hurting friends, and any situation I saw/interpreted as a miscommunication that caused divide in my family.
I had to learn to balance my nurturing soul. I had to take care of myself, and only give from my extra. First, I had to learn to keep my nose out of other people's business. Then I had to learn to help when I was asked - not just control other's lives by inserting my "wisdom."
Oh, I know. Without a doubt, it is nothing but heart ache to watch someone in pain - especially when we think we know it could be so much better if they would just. . . . . . ..
Until that person can say, "I am miserable. I need help. Can you point me in the right direction, and stand by me as I work on myself?" - all we end up doing is spinning our wheels, and losing out on life enriching activities
Sometimes it is wonderful to pour our time into helping. Sometimes it is not. If the goal is to force/coerce someone into seeing what they do not want to see, it is not wisdom. When we get ourselves so obsessed with helping someone - who is not asking and not receptive - we start on a path of self destruction.
This for sure is in regard to other adults - not children. I am talking about people who can make their own choices.
I have learned that when we keep the peace and pacify other's in their destructive activities, they like us and they are our friends. When we put up healthy boundaries, and require other's to do their own healing, - well it is uncomfortable because they no longer seem to like us very much.
The road to stronger boundaries is a rough one. I have been down it more than once because I found myself slipping into old patterns of frustrating behavior
That's how I see it.
Very truly,
Liz.
This is so true and that
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
This is so true and that reality makes me want to cry. You are right. I do have to mind my business because I am not the one that has pushed anyone away. I communicate with his brother, I talk to his best friend, but this is MY choice and if who I am. He will have to deal with the consequences of his actions as he always does. People like this have to be so lonely inside as they see relationship after relationship crumble but of course, they blame the other person.
Thank you Liz. It does get tiring to constantly try to glue back the vase and have him smash it to pieces again. I am a peacemaker and it zaps my energy when I am not even involved. Hard to accept but I will do my best. He is not asking for help, and he takes NO counsel. So, I guess his relationships aren't that important and if they are, he will be the one hurting the most when something happens to his loved ones, God forbid. For 26 yrs, he has lost so many people and there I am spinning my wheels trying to make him look good but he doesn't keep it up so I am tired.
Now to continue to work on myself.
It really is not easy
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
notgonnalosemyself ,
This is all so very hard. No doubt about it.
I currently feel really awkward at family functions. It is like I arrive without my arm. It feels very odd, and I sometimes do not know what to do with that feeling. Or when my spouse and I are at a function, it feels like my arm is one one side of the room, and I am looking at it, trying to figure out how to make it function when it is no longer connected to me.
Me, I was the smoother, the patcher, the calmer, the "make everything appear wonderful", the grand excuse maker.
All the on going dynamics have to do a lot more with other aspects of communication, than just ADHD. I just see my spouse in emotional pain, I see him hold on to anger, and I no I do not have enough hours in the day to live my own life and his. And I want to live my own life. He states he does not want anyone to see his internal pain. I think we all see his pain. He states he doesn't want anyone to see our faltering relationship. Some parts are personal, and no ones business but our own. However, it is so crippling right now, I think having the understanding and support of family would be a wonderful thing.
Very truly,
Liz
It's dillusional really since
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
It's dillusional really since most of our friends already know he has issues. I don't even have to be present and I get a report back from someone asking why he did this or that. They love him and that is fortunate for him. I waver back and forth from compassion, resentment and anger since I feel like I didn't know any of this. I can say that my feelings are that of a sibling that has a drug addiction. It is hard to have any romantic feelings when I feel insecure emotionally, physically, spiritually and in other areas. I have taken care of myself all these years. The worst is the emotional void since I am 43 now, not 17 and have everything that I want except a stable husband. I see him torture himself daily. The self-loathing, inability to get work and lack of effort into looking for work, this all has to eat him up and he masks it with over-confidence in public and displays of his intelligence. I have learned to not engage and to protect my heart from more pain and this has caused me to not give as much since I am depleted and get not much in return. I relapse all the time and it never fails that I am left deflated. But, hey, it is what it is. I get you Liz. We see everything they don't want us to see. The spouse gets the biggest blow. Much love.
PS- I am so grateful for everything I have though- family and friends, a home and God keeps me strong. So many more on this forum have it so much harder than I do and I pray everyone gets the strength they need. This is rough.
Helping is the sunny side of
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
Helping is the sunny side of controlling...very good. I just read the subject line. Yes, I see that in myself. I want him to be like me because I am liked and I hear what people say about him. I guess in protecting his rep, I am just setting myself up for disappointment since I am not willing to hold him up forever. It's like holding up a wet noodle and swearing to everyone that once you let go, it will stay up on it's own. Not gonna happen.
Self-awareness...I'm starting to not like it...Ha Ha!
Submitted by c ur self on
Liz...I love that saying; Sadly I resemble it :(....NGLM; it's the same here....All four of our children have a better relationship w/ her than I do...LOL, because they just accept! where I keep trying to help! And of course, it's like you say, I just want life to be BETTER for her....Even though that is true....Deep Deep Down I know; if I could deal w/ her like the kids do...Life would be much more peaceful for both of us....The only thing the kids don't realize is....She's not the same person with me, as she is with them, not even close....(Did I hear someone say that's your fault??) LOL...
But, still puking up all my excuses, if I took no more concern for how she lives than the kids did...It would be much better here....I might have to buy a cabin on the river to get away at times..And I may have to vacation alone etc...But, hey it's not much different than that now....LOL.....
I will echo what you said....I'm working on me!....
That reminds me of a song the kids sang in Sunday School....(He's still working on me; to make me what I aught to be)
This reminds me of his health issues also
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
This reminds me of his health issues also because he was told he has diabetes and argued with the doctor and refused meds and said he will change his diet. That was 2 years ago and his fasting blood is 151 and today he was looking for his diabetes pills the doc prescribed and he has only taken one EVER. He eats whatever he wants and then gets mad. He also bought 20 different supplements for ADHD in order to NOT take the meds a doc would prescribe and forgets to take them of course, 20 pills vs one or two but he doesn't want chemicals that can alter who he is. Wait, what? So I went and got him a good multivitamin to at least get his minimum in for energy and he can't even take that on the regular. But I told him I can't be after him all the time. It's tiring especially when he is The King of Gadgets and can't set a reminder for one vitamin. So this is true with EVERYTHING, vitamins, meds, health, relationships. I just can't...I explained the seriousness of diabetes, amputation, organ failure, heart attack, DEATH. The only thing I can do is make sure the life insurance is paid, sadly enough.
My mom was like that
Submitted by Delphine on
Thank you for the reply
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
It's interesting since his two brothers also have issues, bipolar and ADHD also and THEY contact HIM since they feel he is distant. So being self-sufficient is the answer it seems instead of waiting around for what they are incapable of.
Exactly!
Submitted by Delphine on
We don't need attention from others, even from those we might think "should" be there for us, such as our relatives. We can find happiness and fulfillment on our own.
Synchronously, I was just sharing this quote at another forum, so will paste it in:
“Now, happiness comes from feeling within yourself the wonder and the joy that is within yourself, and there is no other way in any world of experiencing happiness.
You cannot expect a lover to give it to you, you cannot expect a child to give it to you, you cannot expect events to give it to you.
It is yours by right if you claim it, and if you do not claim it, or if you turn your back upon it, then it seems to you that you must look for it in others or that others are always happier than you are.
Now, and all of you know what I am going to say, the tiniest cell within your tiniest toe is happy. Feel its happiness. Feel the vitality that is your self as it always pervades your being. It is within you now, keeping you alive and sitting there so pert and pretty, so acknowledge it and listen and feel within yourself for that life energy that is always within you.
Look at a leaf or at a teaspoon or at one of your children or simply at a shadow and feel the miraculous uniqueness of what you see, and the miracle of the eyes that allow you to see it and the power of the brain that is able to make these connections, and then the happiness rides up through your being and you wonder how it was that you did not see it before.
But money will not make you happy, and alone, love from another will not make you happy.
But love of yourself will, and it will lead to happiness for yourself and for others.”
Calling others....
Submitted by c ur self on
In general I think you are right, C
Submitted by Delphine on
Women tend to be more vigilant about keeping in touch than guys...one more indication that my mother was indeed ADHD!
Your other reasons make sense also, i.e. lack of common interests...it is true that I am on a "different wavelength" than the rest of my family...and than most people for that matter. LOL :D
Delphine
I can appreciate not being
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
I can appreciate not being inclined to make these calls, C. And that you go ahead and make them to your parents, who sound like they might be of an age that their limitations may have narrowed their social contacts.
The research on the "kinkeeper " role in a family may give an angle on the discussion. The basic idea is that a family divides up the parts or roles among its members, to help the family continue. Before going on, I'd say, on that point, that in some situations that have been described on this board since I've been on it, e family didnt apportion out the roles, instead there has been some non compliance or non volunteering to do some of the roles, so that there was no "we agree that you will do this for us".
Back to kinkeeping, yes, the researchers report that women often are the kinkeepers for the family unit, being the ones to remember birthdays, make calls to check on an extended family member if there's been an illness or operation, sending thank you notes, organizing and getting done the preparation for a family ingathering.
As it is described in the research lit, kinkeeping exceeds being mere conventionalism or doing what "should" be done in social situations, its inner extended family work, keeping relationship going and communication lines open.
In my offline life, I see women ending up as the family kinkeeper. But in this day and age, when we give ourself online or cellphone alerts for appointments, and can easily keep phone numbers and running calendars, there's not such a need to have only one family member remember that it's time to send a card or gift. One of the men I work with is the family kinkeeper.
It's sad to see someone let relationships die, through neglect, though.
Nobody can have a relationship for someone else, I don't think.
That's the point
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
I'm on your page, NotGonna.
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
I'm on your page, NotGonna. I have a sibling who disappeared from the family sometime in his twenties, by not responding to overtures, not visiting, not communicating anything about his life, not making overtures on the phone, net or in any other media. It goes on and on: not seeing, not sending gifts, not... He has his reasons for this, only some of which I can guess, but nevertheless, he let go of doing ALL the kinkeeping things that people do, to keep relationships going.
He reaped what you worry about concerning your husband and his friends. After decades of not initiating contact and not responding to contact, he had completely lost touch with our parents, knowing nothing about their lives, for decades sharing nothing of himself with them. I saw him go through some really hard times, because, although not an unfeeling man, he had practiced not thinking about them in any way related to their present lived life, not communicating with them, not sharing anything about himself ....when the separation from them was final, when they both died, he had a tough time with their passing....so many unresolved issues, and now they were gone!...and I think still is having a tough time with it, because through his habits of disconnection, and not giving to them or learning anything about them, he had no good way to complete his grief at their passing. And we in the rest of the family had no really good way to support him in his grief, except recognize that he was having a hard time, at losing his parents after having taken action over the years to have a non-relation with them...except whatever he had in memory of them from before he was 25. How do you say good-bye in that situation?
It's a humanly peculiar thing to let a good friendship die, and I wonder if it has a piece of deliberate self harming in it. I can sympathize with you that it's hard to watch. Nobody who cares about someone else wants to see them suffer.
"Nobody who cares about someone else wants to see them suffer"
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
NowOrNever ,
Caring about others, in such an intense manner that a person loses sight of themselves - - - -well, that is what I did. I had to learn to balance my caring. I learned that I cannot give somebody anything I do not have myself. Oh, I can try, but if I don't have it myself, it will not be genuine, it will only be empty words with no actual substance.
Can it work? Yes. Yes it can. Along with the counseling and Al-Anon, I had a spouse who encouraged me to "Learn the value of looking at myself in the mirror and saying, "Liz, I love you." It took me a really long time, but I arrived! Imagine my dismay when I realized what my spouse had given me, was something he did not have for himself. His internal dialog is not building himself up, thus that internal dialog shouts louder to him than anything anyone externally tries to tell him.
Me, I am the family keeper of our history. When my spouse's parents died, I kept all the old family photos. Yep, my in-laws history. There are seven siblings, but no one wanted the job....I guess.
I see the value in ancestry. My spouses family has a lot of pain - unresolved issues - un-forgiveness - anger. In totally 100% my paradigm, my spouse's old brother had a few issues. He would confess them to my spouse, and my spouse carried them as secrets for his brother. That brother passed away last year, and my spouse still carries those burdens. He really sees it as an 'honor.' I see it as something much like an albatross around his neck. Nothing I can say has changed my spouses view of this special honor of being his older brother's confidant. It is hard to watch, and hard to understand how he sees something unfair as something he treasurers.
I have also learned I need to do what is right for me. I "thought" everyone felt the same way. It took a bit of time before I stopped allowing other's neglect to have a negative impact on what I enjoyed doing. The first few things I heard along the grape vie, that were not just shared with the family as a whole - - -well it hurt. Now I see that what I see as family news - illnesses, operations, broken relationships - other's see as private. So i continue to share, and yep, feel a prick of my flesh when I wasn't;t told something first hand. . . . .but I shake it off and go on.
Sincerely,
Liz
I love me some Liz! Thanks
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
I love me some Liz! Thanks for your insight! It saves me YEARS!
Liz, you're really on the way
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Liz, you're really on the way, on our long journey. I always read you.
Your remark toward the end, that what you see as family news others see as private reminded me of the generation in the U.S. who were young adults in the Depression and then WWII after that. So many of them kept silent about personal and interpersonal events and history. I became the keeper of family photos, and on one side of the family, I have a whole envelope of very old photos that I've marked "Who dat?" because no one from that generation on that side of the family looked at photos together, identified people in photos, etc. Lol, I heard some things about that generation of my family when my mother was in the final year of her long life. There was a lot of anxiety and shame in that generation, or at least in those of that generation I knew.
Best to you, Liz
Some things really aren't worth researching....
Submitted by c ur self on
I was quizzing my Dad one day to tell me about our relatives from his side.....His grandfather uncles and such...He just looked at me and said; Son; you don't want to know those stories....All they did was make whiskey and fight...*O O*...I don't think I ever asked again....A few of my Mother's siblings dealt w/ mental illness, alcohol addiction among other things...
It's nice to be from such Royalty :)