TalkingToo Much

Greetings all!

I am ADHD and I talk too much.

Any suggestions on how to cut the volume of talking I do?

Does this topic deserve its own Forum Topic?

Limetrees Park

Choices

Why do you think you talk too much?   I was with my sister yesterday.  I needed to hear her chatter to quiet my own thoughts.  It was soothing to listen to her various topics and always gets me to talk about mundane, funny things too.  Yet, I also thought as I drove home - That was a nice visit but that would be impossible to tolerate long term for me.  Here is why:  It gives the talker more power over.  It becomes a control tool. The silent one is being programmed to listen to rather than contribute evenly. Topics are skimmed over and changed mid sentance and if it is just light chatting there is fun in it. It can be enjoyable. But,  if we have to make decisions together and relate to each other, her topics have more power than mine.  We both know that she gets a "kick" out of that power and we both know that I let her do it and we both know that we could never live together.  I think you know that in your heart.  Constant talking will breed resentment long term.  But short term it is a welcome retreat for us to be with you.  Focus.  If it is important to you to have long term relationships, focus on why you need to listen for your own benefit - that is IF you want long term loving equal relationships rather than just chatting short term.  You have to want to give up half the power and stage time to share the power and the stage.  It is your choice.  I think some people choose to have the power and the stage rather than the relationship.

Controlling Impulsivity Certainly Qualifies for a Forum Topic:)

Hi Limestree Park,

I have a few questions about this:

  • Are you on medication?
  • How's that going, if yes?
  • Do you find that you only get chatty with certain people, or is it equal opportunity?
  • Do you find certain moods lend itself to that?  I find that when I get excited or enthusiastic about something, this is when I become really chatty.  I used to do this to my husband A LOT when things would temporarily get better between us.  I was just so happy, I would bubble over... But that would also precipitate a downturn in self-awareness and everything would start to slide (the house, my efforts with him, etc...)  It has really affected his ability to trust me and let his guard down, when I'm in a good mood, even though I don't let things slide as a result of my mood anymore.
  • Is it worse when you're anxious or over-tired?  I find these are issues as well.
  • Are you ignoring clear signals from other people indicating you should slow down?  If so, maybe your meds aren't doing it for you...

ADHDMomof2 :)

P.S.  Welcome to the site.  You will find support here, you will be challenged here, and honestly, that's the best kind of help.  I have learned a lot from my fellow ADHDers, and just as much from the non-ADHD spouses. 

Sorry

Sorry I didn't reply when you took the time to respond. I've been slammed with work. I had just started a new teaching gig, and that hasn't been working out so well. Most of it does revolve around the chaos and disorder in my ADHD mind, so the curse continues. I know, what the hell was I thinking choosing to become a teacher?

In response to your questions, yes I am on meds. I've been on Vyvanse (30mg, then 60mg, finally to 70mg, at one point taking two each day), Adderall (30mg 2x/day). Several others for depression and anxiety over the past 20+ years. Not on meds for ADHD until 3 or 4 years ago.

How's it going? Not so well, actually. If only I could get the circus in my brain to pack-up and go. In fact, it seems that the older I get, the worse it gets.

I find that I am an equal opportunity overtalker (not a word, but it fits). Too many details; too many tangents. I even had a therapist tell me that he had a hard time following me, and that he's a "trained listener."

Moods do affect the excessive talking that I do. When excited or enthused I can break world records. When I feel depressed I talk less, unless it turns to anger-which leads to lecture time.

Anxiety: yes. Overtired? I'm always fatigued.

Sometimes I notice the signals, but usually my wife points it out after the fact ("Couldn't you see his face and body language?!?")

As far as meds go, for both ADHD and depression, I haven't found a successful "magic pill" or combination that has really worked for me. A little, yes. For a while, yes. But not long term; not enough to slow down my dysfunctional brain, nor to combat the despair that failure after failure (on top of an inherited mental disorder) creates. YMMV.

After years of this, I have realized that I'm one of those lucky 10% or so of depression sufferers that are incurable by medications. It's a sad fact to have to face, but it is what it is. In fact, over the past few months I have accepted the fact that my ADHD and MDD will never go away. Since they won't go away, I'm no longer wasting my time fighting them.

Thank you for your efforts to help.

LTP

Pbartender's picture

Like Jenna and ADHDMomof2

Like Jenna and ADHDMomof2 suggest, if you can think about why you do it and under what circumstances, that might help you find a way to curb it a little.

For me, I'll do it when I get informationally hyper-focused on a particular subject...  The topic will come up, and I'll be just bursting to share everything I know about it.

Talking through something, either to myself or with someone else there, is also a way for me to organize my thinking...  The whole process of verbalizing my thoughts forces me to slow them down and think them through one at a time.  And being able to explain something to someone else helps me understand it better (like now!).

 

Pb.

huh?

I am guilty of the talking-too-much thing, too.... although Adderall pretty much instantly stopped that.

For me, at least consciously, it was never about "power" of any kind.  It would usually happen at a social gathering where I knew no one, was desperately uncomfortable and when someone would talk to me and I found something in common with them i'd feel relieved, like, "Whew!  Now I can pretend I'm having a good time and talk to someone and look normal!"  *sigh*  I wouldn't realize until they made some excuse to walk away that I had just made an ass of myself.  It was particularly bad if I got hold of a topic I was really passionate about.  I couldn't understand how someone would NOT be just as excited as I was about whatever it is and not just want to talk about it for an hour/make fundraising plans etc. etc......  It would only be AFTER they'd awkwardly make a run for the bar that I realized "oh... right... they just dropped a name, or mentioned something they read on Twitter to make conversation for a few seconds and had NOT planned to actually discuss anything with a total stranger."

I've gotten MUCH better at reading facial expressions/body language and it's been nearly a year since I've said anything really dumb at a social gathering!  go me!

Thoughts on your new job

I, too, am a teacher, so I totally know what you are talking about.   The correcting is endless, there is no clear delineation between your job and your home life, because there is correcting, planning, entering grades and so on.  Transitions from one activity to another can be hard, there is so much bleeping paper to organize, and planning out activities can be a challenge because of a lack of temporal sense.  You have to remember to include time for transitions or for students to put things away properly when necessary so you don't have to pick up another mess later.  Kids can also be very distracting (to YOU!) if they are not on task while you are trying to teach.  Discipline can be tough when you have a tough class because a little chaos may seem more or less equal, so which kid do you start with (Hint: Start with the ringleaders).  Sometimes, between classes, you just want a few minutes to reorganize your brain but you might have some students who either have a legitimate concern or are by nature anxious and ask questions to which they already know the answer, like whether there is a quiz on Friday when they just read the homework board and know there is in fact, a quiz.  It's hard to keep a classroom organized, that is, if you have a classroom.

I don't know if this is your first year teaching, but the first year is a serious challenge for any teacher.  I didn't like my job as much then because of all of those stressors.  It isn't simply a matter of content area knowledge and liking kids.  There's a lot of organization, a lot of structure that you, as the teacher, have to impose, and that is no small feat when you have ADHD.  I certainly have not mastered all of my executive functioning challenges, but I have come a long, long way, and if you want to bounce some ideas off me, I'm sure we could learn from each other!

ADHDMomof2

Sorry to bring back a long dead thread

Hi ADHDMomof2,

I had been teaching since fall of 2004. Since then my ADHD has gotten worse. I had a few really decent years, but now my career is pretty much over. I spent the last year at a new charter school (middle school) that didn't do any of the things that make other charter schools successful. It was worse than I could have ever imagined. I was pulled from the classroom and put in a support position that I don't want. Besides, I'm sick of the fact that I can't come home and just be dad and hubby. My heart for teaching is gone, but I'm middle aged now (45) and I am not ready to start over again, even if I go back to what I was doing before (if I can even find an open position). I think I used to be coherent enough to manage a classroom, but that's gone now. ADHD gets worse; I don't care what other people say. My life has fallen apart again and I can't face the the shame and humiliation again. It has bled into my home life and I don't need to subject my 7 year old to this anymore. Thank you for the offer to help; sorry I never took you up on it.

I'm quite certain that tomorrow morning I will be quitting, well, everything. Wednesday I told my wife how bad I was feeling (depression on and off for 4 years now, ADHD, migraines and clusters, the problems we have related to both of our problems), and that I have concluded that I am the cause of all of my problems; I'm quite certain that the only way to stop f***ing our lives up is to remove myself from the equation. She got angry and has stopped talking to me, so what's the difference anyway. Every time life starts to look bright, there is another DARK tunnel ahead, and all of the ones I've been through before have left marks that affect my ability to function. I'm sick of being this way. Nothingness sounds way better than the misery I'm living and putting my family through. They deserve better.

Thanks for listening. I guess I won't be talking too much anymore...

LimetreesPark

carathrace's picture

Limetrees, please read this

Hello Limetrees, your post concerns me and I want to respond to you.  It sounds like you're very depressed and discouraged.  Sometimes when my husband has felt that way, and life looked really bleak to him, he has made the assumption that I would be better off without him, but it is NOT TRUE.  Your family would be devastated without you.  "Removing yourself from the equation" would do so much harm to your children, you can't even imagine.  You're not looking at things clearly right now, trust me on this.

I am very very sorry you're in so much pain.  Please do not harm yourself.  Please talk to someone.  (phone number edited out.)  I want you to make it and get through this.  Please respond to this post and let me know you're ok.

Very depressed

I sent you a direct email on this, but just in case I will post it here, as well.

It seems as if you are very depressed right now, and you are hinting at suicidal thinking.  I wanted to share some resources with you that could help.  These are from my resource section...Please avail yourself of them - your family needs you to not do something drastic!  These resources are:

Emergency: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline:  800-273-TALK (8255)
For longer-term depression and suicide help:  Connect with a trained suicide crisis person in your area.  Go to www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

Information on suicide, including the signs that someone might be suicidal:  www.AFSP.org  Note, some ADHD medications can lead to strong emotional side effects, including suicidal thinking.  If you or your partner experiences this, call your doctor IMMEDIATELY.

Your last job may not have been a good fit for you - this does not mean you are destined to be a failure.

I hope that it helps that I, and other members of this community, are reaching out to you.

PLEASE GET HELP IMMEDIATELY!!!!!

"I had a few really decent years"

So you were a good teacher, you've just been going through a really, really hard time.  It's not an easy job to do when you are feeling low.  I've always maintained I need "all hands on deck" to do this job properly.  The past few years have been rough for me-really rough- due to my ADHD-related health issues that were affecting my brain and my happiness.  I'm not saying this to make this about me; I'm just saying that related issues CAN ABSOLUTELY exacerbate symptoms.  In your case, your severe depression is really making it difficult to cope with what is already a very challenging issue.

"new charter school (middle school) that didn't do any of the things that make other charter schools successful"

Sounds like you were in a disorganized environment with incompetent leaders who didn't support their teachers.  I can't imagine was a great environment for you.

"I think I used to be coherent enough to manage a classroom, but that's gone now."

I'm really sorry that your health problems are making your job so difficult.  I've heard that career-related issues are particularly hard on men, so that can't be easy.

I also just wanted to share something that I want you to consider:  One of my students had a father who committed suicide.  Her mother found him hanging in their basement and screamed.  My student went running to her mother and saw her dead father.   Less than a year after that she became my student.  She came to me disheveled, rarely showered, even though she was at an age where girls were very conscientious about their appearance.  She was bright enough, but could barely bring herself to ever do her homework.  From what I understood, her father wasn't the best dad, and yet, his choice to "remove" himself from her life carried with it devastating consequences.  She was a good kid, and she didn't deserve that.  Neither does your 7 year old.  You want help enough to be on this site, which is proof that you are more self-aware than that girl's dead father.  She had a crappy dad, and she missed him and was devastated by his passing.  I bet she spends a lot of time wondering if he would have done that if SHE was better and why didn't he love her enough to stay?  You think you are doing your kid a favor, but you are not.    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE get help.

As for your wife, I've often heard that anger is a secondary emotion.  She might be pissed at you for all of your ADHD mishaps, no doubt amplified by your depression.  But she probably doesn't know how to handle your suicidal musings and is probably VERY, VERY SCARED and is shutting down out of FEAR.  Even if I'm off-base, please think of your child.  PLEASE.  LIFE CAN GET BETTER.  I'm living proof of that.

ADHDMomof2

P.S.  Please drop us all a line to let us know you are alive.   

 

Still here...

...just woke up with a fever that kept me flat on my back all day, which changed my plans. I overslept and my "window of opportunity" passed for the day. Just to add to the fun, the fever triggered one heck of a migraine (I'd call it a Kip scale 5 but it isn't a cluster by any means).

I saw your responses. Yes, I am in the middle of what looks to be a Major Depressive Episode. And of course I don't want to hurt my family anymore than I already have. That's the only thing that has stopped me, on several occasions. In another post somewhere I mentioned that I also have been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and Generalized Anxiety Disorder.

"Life will get better." I've said that one at least a hundred thousand times. Just hasn't worked out that way for me. I also know that every time I make it through one depressive episode, there will be another one, maybe just around the bend, maybe further along. I hate it. I hate my brain and it's worthless chemistry.

Anyway, you asked me to let you know that I'm still here, so here it is. But I'm not making any long-term promises.

LimetreesPark

...even my username is a suicide reference (sorry Chris). I've known for a very long time how I would most likely exit.

Other Ways of Looking at This and Some Questions

O.K.  Thank you for reading my response.  I have some questions for you.  But first, I did want to clarify.  When I said "life can get better," I really meant by making different choices and trying different things.  Now, I don't know you, and I don't know what you have tried so far, and I bet you have tried a bunch of different things.  Sometimes, though, it's subtle shifts or taking (positive) risks that you aren't so sure about when you start that really make all the difference.  I don't want to compare my life to yours, we each have our own story.  I will say that 8 months ago, I was incredibly anxious, totally demoralized at how hard I was trying and how meager the results were and/or how short-lived, angry, angry, angry, frustrated, more "ADHD" than I am right now (O.K., exponentially worse) and feeling pretty low about myself.  It was my absolute desperation that led me to the happiness that prior to this, I had never known.  I sleep better than I ever had (I was tired every day of my life since puberty, and now I actually sleep), am what my Naturopathic Doctor termed "happy at the core."  I feel so damn good I didn't even know it was possible to feel this good, this happy, this awake, this relaxed.  Yes, I'm still ADHD.  But I can handle it now.  I'm not saying this to be a boastful ass, I just want you to know that you could be feeling a lot better than you are right now and there are choices out there to help you might not realize.

So here are my questions:

  • What are you taking for medication (everything) and/or supplements?
  • Do you have health insurance?
  • Have you had your vitamin D levels checked?  These are often low in ADHD people and this rather cheap supplement has helped my happiness so much I can't even tell you.   Vitamin D is my BFF.  But that you feel as shitty as you do, getting them checked would really help.  Frequently, when low, people need to go on mega-doses for a while to bring their levels up.
  • What about your B vitamins?  We're often deficient in those as well.  I have posted elsewhere on this site about that.  Important for the nervous system, and that's where your "bad brain" fits in.
  • Have you (if you are taking antidepressants) told your doctor they are not doing the job?  Is this person responsive?  If not, why are you still seeing them?  I have noticed (and I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions) that the men in my life (my dad, my husband) are not particular pro-active about their health/questioning what the doctor says to them.  I've heard similar complaints from friends and acquaintances about men in their lives.  Is this you?  When I was on ADHD medication, I switched doctors 3 times before I found a doctor who actually "got me."  One was such a jerk and I found out later he didn't really "believe" in ADHD.  Needless to say, he treated me like a drug addict.  So I got rid of him and went to someone else in the same practice.  Don't suffer fools lightly!  WHo gives a shit about their feelings?
  • What has changed in the past 4 to 5 years?  Sometimes, it's hard to tell what came first, the chicken or the egg.  I didn't understand that my physical problems (food allergies, leaky gut, vitamin deficiencies) were making my ADHD and my marriage worse.  Actually, let's just throw in my entire life.  There is a connection between migraine headaches and ADHD, as well as migraines and depression.  I don't know what comes first in this mix, but you should really pursue it.  
  • What if there was a possibility your life could be better?  If you could be happier?  What if you are so stuck in your depression (and I don't mean this is your fault, I mean stuck in your biology) that you CAN'T see the possibilities.  What I am trying to say is that your thinking is so distorted from your depression, can you really trust it to steer you toward your own suicide?  What if your brain is "tricking" you?  You have already said it's faulty.  Hey, I have a faulty brain as well, and it's tricked me more than once.  Consider what is possible.  Not just what you have known.  The two could be vastly different.  ADHD CAN get worse with other problems, I agree.  BUT THE REVERSE IS ALSO TRUE.  I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE.

 

    Please take care of yourself, and please don't make any rash (self-harming) decisions while you feel like shit.

ADHDMomof2

carathrace's picture

depression is cyclical

I'm thankful for the fever that kept you from your original plans.  (Not thankful it gave you a headache though.)  Limetrees, I am so glad you're still here.  I was very worried about you.

Six years ago my husband tried to kill himself.  He also has major depressive disorder and ADHD like you, and at the time was suffering from severe sleep deprivation.  Since then, he was put on new antidepressants and went thru sleep testing with the result that he now has a CPAP to help him sleep.  These, along with a good counselor, have helped him lose the suicidal thoughts and cope better with  life.  I asked him what he would say to you.

"You admit that it's [the depression] cyclical.  I understand that the cyclical nature may be permanent, but it IS cyclical and I assume there are lighter times when existence is worthwhile.  You have to keep that in mind, and also that suicide is a decision with permanent & final consequences which allows no room for change.  Change is what we depressives long for, and if there's the slightest glimmer of possibility of change, it's worth hanging on, for the big picture of other relationships and the fact that there is some sweetness in life.  Depression distorts your reasoning.  It's very, very possible that you have incomplete information that you're basing the most important decision that has a life changing impact on yourself and others. 

"I remember a quote from Emily Dickinson, something like "because it only comes once, that's what makes life so sweet."  Life is, as far as we know, our only chance.  I've come to the conclusion that it's worth holding on to for as long as we're able to.  Because eventually we do lose it, not necessarily by our choice.  I understand wanting to stop the pain.  I often think, maybe you've got MDD but I'm not suffering with a life sentence like someone with ALS, and for the most part those people cling to every moment they have.  I can really identify with your sense of life deteriorating, a sense of decreasing capability, loss of the gifts  I thought I had, and the desire to escape is understandable.  But there is no way that your absence is not going to create catastrophic life changes for your child. Because you got into teaching, you have some value for nurture.  When you're in one of the low troughs of the depression cycle, you may be less able to be nurturing, but there will be times when you'll be more able."

That's what my husband says, and he's been there done that.  Limetrees, You don't say if you're under a doctor's care and are taking medication?  My husband found that he HAS to be on meds, he tried stopping and it was much worse.  Have yourself checked for a sleep disorder.  And please stick around.

very supportive post, carathrace :)

Very well written post, carathrace.  I agree that Limetrees really NEEDS to be under a doctor's care and on antidepressants.   This situation is too dangerous to consider alternative paths, although supplementation might help, but should not be considered alone.

Your husband must be a tough guy to have weathered all of that suffering.  ADHD by itself is enough of a diagnosis!  Who needs major depression on top of that!  I'm really, really glad he is doing better.  You must be a strong woman to watch all of that and stick it out.  Talk about "for better or for worse."  I hope you two are proud of your marriage :)!

I also concur that Limetrees should be checked for a sleep disorder.  It really messes with an already altered brain chemistry to never feel well-rested.  I am so much calmer now that I can sleep, for the first time in 28 years (I'm 39 now).

ADHDMomof2

I'm still "Still Here"

Ms. Orlov, Carathrace, and ADHDMomof2,

Just posting to let you know that I'm still around. I read all of your posts several times over the past few months but I really didn't want to post at those times.

I am under a psychiatrist's care. He's the one who I have been seeing for a few years now for ADHD meds, and I had already told him that I was depressed and we were trying SSRI meds to handle the depression. Just recently, I told him in more detail how I am feeling and that the SSRI's don't seem to be cutting it. I also complained about the "chemical castration" caused by SSRI's and the anguish that adds. The depression has already lowered my libido, so when my wife and I end up with the opportunity, it's a real blow to my ego (and hers as well) when there's a struggle just to do what I used to be pretty good at. So he switched me over to Wellbutrin because there are indications that it can even help with that problem. So it has been just short of two weeks of switching and I'm still in that strange stage caused by switching. I feel like I'm getting a little more energy, but I've also been at the edge of tears a lot of the time. I'm also taking my clonazepam every day now. I used to only take it when I was having a panic attack, but my anxiety has gotten worse now and so the 1 mG dose I have helps take the edge off (2 mG puts me to sleep).

More to come...the comment window keeps cutting out what I'm typing.

Limetrees

Still "Still Here" pt 2

Hmm. Well it won't let me paste from the document. To summarize...

No job. That position evaporated when other problems at all of the campuses in that charter district failed to meet standards. Maybe they planned it that way the whole time. At first I was glad to be out of that place, but since then my paralysis, my fear of jumping from the frying pan into the fire, has kept me from doing anything. Interviewing while depressed isn't the best way to go anyway, right?

The Holiday Season starts early for me with birthdays, then the holidays, and then my parent's 50th anniversary celebration in January. I keep aiming to just stick around for those events. As they end, I will aim for other events, so I have goals to meet and maybe won't knuckle under to the urge to take my life.

Thank you for your support. I appreciate it.

Limetrees (John)

 

Strength

I'm new here, so I haven't been following this thread.  Just wanted to extend some strength your way during this tough time of year. It's great that you have things to look forward to.  It must be very hard to be struggling so much.  I hope you can find the support and help you need and deserve!!!!

Hang in there John!!

Hang in there, John.  You're just in a bad spot.  I heard something at church recently that helped me "You will get through this mess.  It won't be painless, it won't be quick, but you will get through it."  The sermon also made me realize that yes, another painful time may be coming soon after, but you experience joy after you get through something.  It also made me realize that others have serious problems too. It's not just me, my household, and my crazy extended family.  My hear goes out to you, but you are not alone.  Please hang in there!  Read the sections on hope!

2014 is going to be a better year for you!