My ADHD fiance was fired from a good job shortly after we started dating. I didn't expect it to be long before he had another, but he refuses to apply for positions, even when I find them for him. He says he cannot cope with jobs that provide no meaning for him. I get that. I really do. I used to work for myself doing something I loved and I had to quit and get an office job because I needed more money coming in. I like the folks I work with, but the job has nothing fulfilling about it other than a decent company with decent people and a paycheck. It's not my first choice, but it is necessary.
He has always found jobs by word of mouth. He refuses to accept that sometimes you have to go looking to get a job. He won't look at Indeed or Monster, but I do. Unfortunately this means I am supporting him. If he lived the way I do I would manage to do that okay, but he doesn't. He wants his Red Bulls - at least 3 a day. He wants to eat what he likes... no rice and beans because I am broke. He wants to go out to eat. And he never orders the inexpensive meal. He wants what he wants, and when he doesn't get it he gets angry, although he always says it's not at me. he still yells and throws things. I have exhausted all my credit cards (and am being turned down for new ones) trying to keep us afloat and I can't do it anymore. I have nothing left to give. Literally nothing left. Bank account is empty. Credit is maxed. I already have 2 jobs. I'm looking for a 3rd job. I'm exhausted.
This morning I found out he has been turned down for a job that he was very qualified for and wanted very badly. I haven't told him. I don't know how to tell him. He's going to get mad. I suspect the contacted his previous employer who says he wasn't fired but quit voluntarily by not getting help for his ADHD. He's back on his adderall (sp?) now. Not that I can tell a difference other than his memory is better. But because of his former employer he can't get a job in his field. And he won't take a job that he doesn't want, which is any job that isn't in his field. Or any job in his field that requires travel. And I'm trying so hard not to push, because I'm not his mom. But he's spending my money, not his. And I'm totally exhausted from trying to keep us afloat. And we're sinking. Fast. And he won't take a job that is "beneath" him. And I don't know what to do.
Please I beg you don't even respond if you don't have anything constructive to say. My one post I made before in this group I was totally ripped apart by the ADHD side, and told to leave him by the non-ADHD side. I'm not doing that, by the way. But if you have figured out how to communicate with your spouse successfully about this sort of thing I am looking to find out how you did it. I will not accept that this is hopeless. He's a wonderful human being. And we have lots of fun, and we adore each other. There's got to be hope.
Here is something constructive....
Submitted by c ur self on
Read your own post, your answer is it...."Clue"....The answer has nothing to do with your friend....
?
Submitted by DawnG on
So... this is my fault? He was gainfully employed for decades before I met him. I see no reason why that cannot happen again.
OK, now I can answer your question.....
Submitted by c ur self on
(So... this is my fault?)....
See.... Dagmar, Jennalemone, 1meldody1, Sollertiae, Poision Ivy, adeleS6845, sickandtired....comments....There is enough real life truths and wisdom in their posts to float a battleship!....But it is just like all other truths we are faced with in this life.. ...YOU (and of us) must be able to receive it....
I suggest you print out this one page and focus on it, until you can accept it fully....All I would add is: God loves you, with the full force of his love....
c
Why?
Submitted by sickandtired on
My ex did the exact same thing: quit his job just a few months after moving in with me. I paid for everything for over 10 years and he would always find an excuse not to look for work. Please don’t let him use you like my ex used me. He wants a mommy and an ATM, not a wife who might need him to contribute financially or emotionally. There are folks on here who accept this lifestyle ONLY because they don’t want to break their vows or divorce. They would love to go back in time and never marry their ADHD spouse. You need to ask yourself why you would settle for an angry immature chronically unemployed man. You need to be honest with yourself about your future role as mommy/ATM/sole breadwinner instead of wishing for things like meaningful lasting behavior change and insight in an adhd person....because it may never happen.
That's not what his history tells me...
Submitted by DawnG on
He was gainfully employed when I met him at a job that he had for 15 years. I've got his complete work history. He has always had a job. It's not a desire to sit around. it's a desire to do it his way (which is no longer working for him) that's the issue.
Please not again...
Submitted by DawnG on
Please let me stress that if you don't have anything good to say just please dont. I'm not open to just quitting. I'm 50 years old, and I know he's not going to change who he is for me. I'm certainly no picnic when I'm having a bad day. He has always been employed. He wants to be employed. He's in a slump. My problem is how to communicate about finances with someone who doesn't seem to have the ability to grasp the concept of finite resources. Maybe because he's always made good money and he doesn't now. And how to encourage job getting behavior without slipping into the mommy role. These are things I am trying to learn. I'm looking for successes, not failures. I'm not trying to fail.
Don’t give up.
Submitted by sickandtired on
Don’t give up on finding a decent guy just because you think you’re too old or “ no picnic either. You are showing your low self esteem right there! I was 60 when I threw my bf out. I have arthritis heart disease, and a bum leg due to falling into his hoard. I still had enough self esteem to know that I deserved better. Getting away from him was the best thing I ever did for my health. Don’t you think you deserve to be treated better than this????
Again: You need to ask yourself why you would settle for an angry dependent man. They get much worse with age. The reason he quit his job is because he knew you would take up the slack, and you have become his perfect enabler. Getting out at any age is the healthiest thing YOU could do. Face your fear of being alone. I guarantee you being alone is better than being with this guy. He will keep chipping away at your self esteem.
HE IS NOT A BAD GUY!
Submitted by DawnG on
I'm sorry, but I will defend him to the hilt on this... he is not a bad guy. he is not a deadbeat. Although he may be beaten down by all the crap that he's been through. I have been with creeps, and he is not one. He is a sweet loving guy who would take a bullet for me (or any of his friends). And I'm tired of being on his case about money. I'm just looking for alternatives to nagging him about getting a job and reminding him how broke we are. I am fine with being alone. I was fine when I met him. I happen to like having him around more than I like not having him around. This is one negative aspect of our relationship. Money should not be the most important thing in a relationship. I know it's not the most important thing in my life.
I didn’t say he was a bad guy
Submitted by sickandtired on
He has a chronic disease. It will never be cured. He will never grow out of it. You will pay by doing EVERYTHING, and he won’t even realize all you do. I know you are frustrated and angry about your situation, but we are not lying to you. Part of the disease is denial, selfishness, avoidance of difficult things (like work or counseling), always playing the victim in every situation, anger issues and lack of control of emotions, forgetfulness, and blaming others for their maladaptive behaviors. If you want to stay with him and experience a miserable life with ADHD, that is your choice. You say you have no problem being alone. What is it about this guy that makes you want to sacrifice your happiness for him???? I read all of your past posts and didn’t see anything where he was ever concerned about your needs or your feelings. You deserve to be happy. It’s almost impossible to be happy living with a mentally ill person. You are setting yourself up for a miserable future. That’s all I’m trying to get you to see.
More confused than angry...
Submitted by DawnG on
I'm more confused about how to talk to him than angry. I know he would rather put his head in the sand then deal with the situation when it's hard. Frankly I would, too. But I've always been a realist. He's a child at heart. I know that. It's part of his charm, and part of what makes him such a mess. We've been together for a while now and I can honestly say the good times outweigh the bad. Today is a bad day because I have to give him bad news. And it's going to hurt him. And when he's hurt he doesn't get back up like I do. And if he doesn't get back up then I will want to carry him. And, honestly, I've all but stopped doing that in the last month. Except to keep a roof over his head and his telephone turned on. I've even made him go to food pantries. And I don't blame him for all of the debt. I could have put my foot down before I got this deep. I just kept thinking he would find something. I didn't realize until recently he's got an obsessive superstition about word of mouth jobs. In other news, he's just been diagnosed with hyperthyroid, which causes all the same symptoms as ADHD, and so he's got a double whammy right now. it's a lot to take in.
Boundaries Dawn....
Submitted by c ur self on
It's obvious you have deep feelings for him....If you set responsible adult boundaries with him, you will find out who he really is ( I hope for your sake, he is the person you believe he is)...Tell him you want live in debt any longer, (you don't have to, because you aren't afraid to work to care for yourself) and if he is going to spend money, it will have to be his money, money he earns!....He must take any job he can get until he can find one he prefers...That is what all responsible adults w/ character would do....
If he says you are right, I've been freeloading on the person who loves and cares for me with no thought about what your life has been like....Then he turns up his efforts to get employed, (and takes a job)....Then your faith in him will be rewarded...But, if he shows negative emotions and tries to bully you, and play the victim card....Then you will see him for who he truly is....
c
Hugs.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I'm keeping you in my prayers. I am sorry I cannot give you any good advice or recommendations. Hang in there..... Hugs.
One thing in your post stood out to me: But because of his former employer he can't get a job in his field. Why is this? If someone were to call a previous employer for a reference, the only thing they are able to say is that he worked there, and verify years of employment and title, is what I have been told. However, my fiancee said that when they call his employer to verify employment, they are sometimes asked "would you hire this person again"?, which is something I've never heard of.
Actually...
Submitted by DawnG on
Actually, as much as I wish you were right, I'm in HR and that's not entirely true - at least not where we live. They can say anything they can back up with documented facts. And the fact is his work was sub-par when he went off his medication. They put up with it for over a year. He will admit it if you ask him. He wasn't on his game. They are allowed to say his work was sub-par because it is true. As long as they have documentation they have no worries. The reason most large corporations will only give the dates of employment is because they have legal departments to advise them and they are worried about being sued. They won't say anything positive or negative. They have a blanket policy to protect themselves. Smaller companies don't always do that. And as far as the ADA is concerned, the company did try to make reasonable accommodations. They gave him 30 days to fix it. It took him 90 days to get in to see the doctor and get back on the pills, but by then he had already lost his job. A business is entitled to not take a huge financial hit just because they are dealing with someone with a disability. A large corporation wouldn't have that leeway because the cost of accommodating the employee would be a smaller part of their bottom line. But small businesses don't have as much to answer for because they have to remain in business, and the ADA allows for that.
1) Don't allow your partner
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
1) Don't allow your partner to spend your money. If he's on your credit card, cancel it and get a new one without him on it. 2) Try to reduce your spending on things that benefit you both (housing, entertainment, transportation, etc.). If he complains, remind him that this is what happens when there's not enough money. 3) Encourage him to get a therapist who will act as an ADHD coach. Taking medication gave my ex-husband more energy but seemed to have zero effect on his desire to do things he didn't like to do, such as applying for jobs. 4) Accept that whether your partner changes is not your responsibility and is not within your control.
My partner is going through
Submitted by Sollertiae on
I am sorry. My partner (unmedicated) is going through something similar, although he was fired because he was standing up for himself over some truly horrendous management practices (resulted in someone's death 3 weeks later). He is unemployed, has no money and no way to get to a place for employment and won't do anything that isn't stimulating. But he is also grieving the loss of a job he loved, an identity he didn't know he wanted, beating himself up about it, and so angry at himself and them. The result is he is frozen and the more pressure put on him, the more frozen he gets, the more he is anxious and head burying in sand. As he said 'it is all I have to stay afloat and not think about self harm.'
People with ADHD simply don't bounce back well when they lose all their self esteem, and too many things slam them at once. It takes a long, long time, or actual adrenalin to motivate.
I realise him looking for work and what not is important, but for the conversation you want to have you need to separate out that from your finances and the money situation. Because I guarantee if you make the conversation in anyway about him finding work you are simply going to trigger every single avoidance tactic and the anger/frustration/guilt/shame bundled up in it. Your husband knows he needs work - sadly he wouldn't be so avoidant of stuff and desperate to live normally if he didn't. Deal more immediately with the money situation - there is no more money at the moment. If he keeps spending what you don't have, you will stop paying for him and letting him have access to it. You are not going to be able to infinitely work more and more to make up for that, and basically it doesn't matter how upset he gets, that won't change. Welcome feedback on strategies to save money (both of you having an allowance, things to sacrifice etc), but I would expect it to be rough as you will be challenging his coping strategies. If he gets angry then leave and wait for him to calm, but money is finite and being petulant will not solve it.
Stop looking for jobs for him. If he doesn't want the help, then don't give it until he does. It sucks his method isn't working and I can see it is making you stressed, but that is not yours to fix.
Thank you!
Submitted by DawnG on
I'm grateful for your understanding, and you nailed much of the problem. He has lost his confidence, and he is not bouncing back well. I just buck up and move on. He cannot seem to do that. I am trying to steel myself for the reaction when the Red Bulls go away... it's not that he wants to spend like it's going out of style. He just can't see how the $2 here, $2 there adds up to a lot of money. So yes, I'm trying to turn off the faucet. Fortunately, we have not mixed finances. And we never will. it is me who has a hard time saying no to him when he's feeling so badly about himself. I do think if he truly grasped the situation he would change. And I think the superstition about always having jobs find him instead of the opposite is also a big issue. But I am trying to step back. He's going to find a bag of rice and some beans in the house. And he is going to be very hungry if he refuses to eat the food that's there. :)
I suspect him knowing his job
Submitted by Sollertiae on
I suspect him knowing his job loss was because of the ADHD is what is really slamming it home and stopping him recovering well - absolute bugger to not see consequences well until it is too late and then have to live with the fact you could have stopped it had you been anyone else. And the 'only getting jobs by word of mouth' is definitely anxiety talking, with a side of avoidance. The only way to reliably get jobs without showing how terrified and out of control you are about job hunting and having to deal with a task everyone finds horrid and dull ... is another way of putting it.
It is hard to see anyone in freefall and not want to help, but perhaps redirecting your comfort to things like amusements to cheer (I usually send random memes) and indulging together in something he focuses on that does not cost money might be better and less detrimental to your health and mind. Focusing on stopping the anxiety circles with that sort of stuff might be better for him in the long run as well.
Rice and beans, mmm. What more could he want? Hah! Well I remember cheap tinned tomato soup with rice in it. O_o
Time to get tough
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
It's easy to see how much you love your guy. He is very lucky. :) The constructive thing I have to say is that I would recommend you don't forget to love yourself just as much.Honestly, it's so important to treat yourself as well (better!) than you treat others. You are exhausted and looking for a third job while he wants to eat out and refuses to take a job beneath him. I know you don't want to hear it, but there is something wrong with that. You deserve some downtime, girl! Take it from someone who worked herself to depression and a nervous breakdown in a similar situation. In my case, I drastically cut down how much I worked after working days, nights and weekends while he did nothing. I finally made it clear I was going to do a reasonable days work and no more and that he needed to do his part. With me doing less (read: a normal workload!), he had to do something or we would implode. Our situation isn't ideal... I will be honest. I am making less than I'd like in order to compensate for the fact that I do 100% of the parenting and carry 95% of the household load. He is underperforming still because he refuses to hold traditional employment. But we are making enough and are not in danger of going under. I have drawn my line. He sees I won't take up the slack because I showed him I no longer would. I expect him to work. I could not break through with words. It took action. I will be honest... there is nothing easy about this. It is terrifying to drop someone else's ball and wait to see if they will pick it up (especially when your financial stability and/or relationship is on the line!). Maybe you're not there yet... ready to take the risk of not searching for a 3rd job and dropping the 2nd... but I had no choice when I landed in the hospital because I had gone two years in a situation like yours. I don't wish that on anyone!
I can't tell you how to break through exactly, but that is how things happened for me. The key reason I wanted to comment was just to say be kind to yourself. You are working so hard, you are being supportive and it's very true that unless we take care of ourselves, we won't be able to keep doing those things indefinitely. I would ask yourself "What do I need?" and take time to let that sit. You are very focused on what he wants and needs and your happiness and health are absolutely just as important. All the best to you, Dawn.
How to communicate
Submitted by jennalemone on
"But if you have figured out how to communicate with your spouse successfully about this sort of thing I am looking to find out how you did it."
So, your request of us is to let you know if anything worked for us in communicating with our ADD spouses successfully.
The ONLY thing that worked for me in a GRAND way was this - I gave him the sole responsibility of paying the electric bill. After 3 months of non-payment, the electric company turned off the electricity. Which happened. When I got home, in the middle of a sub zero winter, no electric heat. Freezing. I packed my bags and went to a hotel. Swam in the heated pool, had a nice dinner. H was at home freezing. He scrambled, got a loan, got a job in 5 DAYS! I told him I would not return home until the electricity was back on. And didn't.
He heard and heeded that. Weeks later, he told me he appreciated that I did that because it was the "kick in the pants" that he needed to get a job.
Decades (nearly 5) later after him not being able to make any headway unless I 'fanagaled" him into action.......I do not respect him. I do not trust him. I do not love him. He depends on his having a great personality (I don't thinks its so great anymore) I do not like who I am when I am with him. I do not like him anymore. This will be you if keep hoping that you can COMMUNICATE in the right way to make him change the way you want him to. It is not going to happen. He is who he is. He is not going to change because of anything you say or do. Your words will not change him.
He's not going to change the situation until he has to
Submitted by Dagmar on
Here's the thing with ADHD. He isn't going to do anything until he absolutely has to. He's always going to put it off. I've been through long bouts of unemployment with my husband of 20+ years and I've tried everything to communicate to him at the time that I need him to get a job, including marriage counseling. Here is what has worked:
1st time, one year of unemployment: I gave him two weeks to move out. I said I didn't want to break up, but I wasn't going to support him anymore. He had a job in 3 days.
2nd time, five years of un- and underemployment: We met with a marriage counselor and I started working towards a divorce. He had a job within six months and kept one in that industry for more than 10 years. This is also when he was diagnosed with ADHD.
3rd time, two years: I had been a stay at home mom when he was laid off. I screwed up and got a part-time job right away. He also had severance and we had insurance and food stamps. He didn't put in enough effort to find a job. I told him that if I had to do all the childcare and support him too, then I'd rather do it as a single mother. Then I started looking for full-time jobs. He found one, it lasted for 6 months, then he lost it again. This time I did not get another job. I just ignored everything and lived my life. When the money ran out, I only borrowed money to cover the mortgage. He had a job about a month after the money ran out.
So basically, what you have to do, is give him no other choice. I don't know how you want to do that, but I can guarantee you that once he HAS to get a job, then he will. Kick him out and tell him he can come back with a job, stop paying for him, and walk away when he starts yelling about not having good dinners and stuff.
He has probably convinced himself that you're okay with all of this. You need to stop telling him. You need to show him.
I agree 100%
Submitted by daizzebelle on
My H has ADD and I see the same pattern...he does not do anything until things get to a breaking point. Several years ago my H was laid off and then unemployed for 6 months followed by 4 1/2 years of underemployment. I worked 3 jobs so we could make ends meet. I was exhausted and exasperated. Finally I told him I was leaving him. I started packing up my stuff. A week later he had a full time job.
Now he is unemployed again. He did not finish the coursework that was required in order for him to keep his job. He has been sitting around doing nothing since the end of May. After working 10 to 11 hour days and coming home to a messy house and no dinner every night, I told him I was frustrated. He said he didn't have time to load the dishwasher or make dinner because he was very busy looking for a job. But weeks went by with no interviews. At the end of July he admitted that he had applied for only one job. One job application submitted in 6 weeks. Then 10 days ago he suddenly got motivated (his severance pay ran out) and he applied for 50 jobs. He had 2 interviews today and he has a 3rd interview Thursday.
I do hope he gets a job. But even if he does, I am not staying. He is not going to change.
It is too stressful having a partner who waits til the walls are closing in before he does anything. I want more out of life. I am leaving him.
He says he cannot cope with jobs that provide no meaning
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
Have you tried looking on Idealist?
What's odd in my case is the my wife always complained that I was not willing to take jobs that did not fit my desired career. In truth, however, I took long-term temping positions at hedge funds and financial corporations--and I am a socialist! I felt like Marty Feldman as the monk nailing Jesus figures to souvenir crosses in the movie In God We Trust. But I did it because we needed the money. She was upset that I did not apply for retail positions, but I pointed out that they pay would not cover commuting and the daycare costs.
What happened when she was unemployed? She decided that she would not even try to get another paralegal job. No, it had to be teaching. So we went deeper and deeper into debt as she worked as an on-call substitute teacher. (She was always let go for reasons such as employers and coworkers claiming she was angry when she wasn't! Personally, I was very familiar with her off-the-handle rages directed at me when she thought that she wasn't angry.)