Hello to all. I've been reading the site for several weeks. What incredible validation (!!!) as I have read so many stories. I'm so glad this site is here!
I'm the nonADHD spouse. My husband hasn't been officially diagnosed, but after our kids were diagnosed... well, you know how that story goes. Right now he's supposed to be reading about ADHD at my request, to see if he can see himself. It fits so much of our life that I sat there with my mouth open, experiencing epiphany after epiphany! And yet of course, there are the various things that aren't ADHD, but are his own personal sets of issues that complicate things. He is his own unique person. Yet, reading here, I can see that he isn't the only one who has many of these extra issues. (Your posts have all kept me sane lately! When I feel down and mentally clouded about things, I come here to read, and voila -! Clarity again.)
The first few years, I tried getting him to do things, to be a help with anything... the kids, an occasional chore... That never worked. So I eventually gave up, and then I only focused on trying to get him to pay attention to me and the kids. I finally quit trying. It took awhile, but he eventually noticed that I wasn't trying anymore. And now he says he is willing to put in the work that is needed. Eh, I'm not getting my hopes up, because there's more than ADHD at play here. Instead, I'm trying to figure out how to live with him in this mostly empty relationship. If one day it gets better, then great, but no matter how long it takes or doesn't take, I have to reclaim my peace and my emotional health.
One thing I am wondering - do your ADHD spouses have almost no recollection of major parts of your lives together? Significant parts? He can't remember our older children's small years at all. He remembers none of the times (plural!) where we almost divorced. How does he not remember telling me that he was longer in love with me? How does he not remember how the separation came to be when we were separated? I could go on and on. It's all stuff that I don't understand how anyone, ADHD or not, could forget. The only things he can really remember with much clarity are related to his career, almost without exception, though there are a few.
Oh, and do they go to extremes when they are upset? Like, he had one of his own birthdays not go as he had hoped, so he told me that he's never celebrating another special day of any kind ever again. Or one of the kids will do something small that he finds upsetting, so he says, "You're grounded for a two months!"
~Brin
Memory storage and recall
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Brin:
Memory storage and recall are high level executive functioning skills which are often compromised by ADHD. It's also one of the reasons that people with ADHD have trouble learning from mistakes; they are unable to "pull up" the old memories and say to themselves, "Ah, that didn't go well last time when I did thus and such."
My H recalls almost nothing of his childhood. He recycles the same four childhood stories over and over. I have literally NEVER heard anything else about his childhood in 15 years. It's as if it didn't exist.
He has trouble remembering that he ran up debt a couple of other times,so wonders why this time it's such a big deal for me. (I told him what the consequences would be if it happened again). He doesn't remember that he was on dating sites once before so he has trouble understanding why I can't "just let it go" this time - a tiny little mistake, right?
Yesterday I read something interesting. The point of the research wasn't so much that ADHD folks have runaway, oh look there's a squirrel, thoughts so much as they often totally blank out.
Same four stories..
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
This is really interesting. I have learned about the difficulty with memory recall, hindsight, vicarious learning and foresight.. and my ex always told me that his brains felt like swiss cheese and that he would try to search for a memory and couldn't find it. (I just didn't know what he meant at the time because I hadn't figured out he might have ADD until long after the fact.)
However, even knowing that...I hadn't realized until you mentioned just now it that I would often hear the same few anecdotes about his childhood or young adult years from him as well.
They weren't even stories per se... as they didn't have much in the way of detail... just short little mentions, some that you would think would leave a much bigger impression (like being caught in a riptide and pulled out to sea) and some just trivial (like what his after school snack was). But I heard them numerous times.
Even in trying to talk to his oldest son about what he might know about the relationship between my ex and his parents or how his dad met his mom or anything else.. his son didn't know anything either. Just the same repeated stories as had been told to me.
That makes perfect sense... if the visual imagery system is impaired, and that's how we call up memories and experiences.. then there you go.
Wow.. thank you for connecting that dot for me.
Thank you!
Submitted by Brindle on
vabeachgal - Thanks for sharing how this same thing plays out for you. The explanation makes sense. And ouch - just let it go this time? Even just once is so hurtful. I'm sorry for your pain in all this.
Now to try to extricate my painful feelings from that. Because all this time it has only added to the feelings that I didn't matter all that much.
You hit the nail
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Not only did my H not learn from his previous experience, he completely disregarded the hurt he caused me the first time and did it again.Now, part of this behavior might be distinctly ADHD related (impulsivity, inability to look to the future and gauge consequences) and some of it is character based.
However, as you said, it is very, very difficult to maintain an objective approach to this when (1) he CHOSE (it is a choice) to hurt again and (2) took the matter off the table by deciding that I should be "positive" and "not dwell" and in general, not discuss it at all or acknowledge the hurt and pain. Because, as some of us know, it won't happen again, you should live in the present, until, of course, it does happen again. As you said, it is very difficult to work through the pain under those circumstances, and the pain is, in fact, doubled by the behavior. He didn't care enough about me to do it to begin with and didn't care enough about me to understand and acknowledge the hurt, ie display empathy. In fact, when I asked him to describe how it might make me feel, the best he could come up with was "low." Yes, sigh, it made me feel low and a whole host of other things
Not to hijack the memory and recollection posts, but I do see a correlation. It is very good to hear from both sides. I agree that it is not beneficial to wallow in the negative. Resentment is an insidious emotion. It actually changes your brain and it's hard to recover from. However, sometimes you have to remember the past in order to avoid repeating it again and to allow full closure and reconciliation.
I look at memory and recollection issues from my own personal history and neurobiological bias. I think that it is good to focus in the moment but I also think that if you aren't really focused in the moment, you don't form those memories. So, fine, stop beating yourself up about the past and live in the moment, but be sure you're focused and truly living in the moment. When my H has no memories of the children's early years,based on my bias, I assume that he was never REALLY THERE to begin with. My bias tells me that life and intimacy is made up of all those small, intricate,carefully interwoven shared events and memories. I can't tell you how many times the children and I were reminiscing about some past event, usually nothing momentous,more of a "remember that time, chuckle" kind of thing... and my H was blank. We would look at each other. Each one of us did a mental calculation that went like this... was he "there" but "not there" or was this one of those times when he decided something else was more important and he was literally not there. There are so many events like this,that his involvement in our lives was very "swiss cheese." It might seem insignificant and unimportant to him. In fact,it often was because he was often doing something else. But these things bind people together. Sure, all those hours in the car transporting the kids to tournaments and practices? BOORRRIIINNG. Yes, so boring my H did not want to participate. However, the kids and I formed strong bonds based on the time spent together and the shared memories. He doesn't have the deep relationships; they are shallow. I'm not saying that is the case for everyone.
By all means, live in the present. Stop ruminating on the negative past, but some of it still has to be dredged up and dealt with. Again, I'm not saying this is for everyone. It's been my experience. Living in the present has often been my H's excuse for stonewalling and "off-the-table-itis" and that is behavior that doesn't do the other party any good. In fact, it devalues the other person.
Same experience with the kids
Submitted by adhd32 on
The kids are now grown and H did not participate in the "boring" things like practices or school conferences. I was astounded by his lack of involvement and concern when the kids were growing up. He doesn't know anything substantial about their lives because he always chose to put himself first and opted out of many milestone moments. When we reminisce about something H gets angry and feels left out. I used to feel guilty but no more. I remember that it was completely his choice to stay home while I did the dropping off, picking up, and waited and watched, while he did whatever he wanted which was nothing most of the time.
I wish I could hug you for this.
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
"However, as you said, it is very, very difficult to maintain an objective approach to this when (1) he CHOSE (it is a choice) to hurt again and (2) took the matter off the table by deciding that I should be "positive" and "not dwell" and in general, not discuss it at all or acknowledge the hurt and pain. Because, as some of us know, it won't happen again, you should live in the present, until, of course, it does happen again. As you said, it is very difficult to work through the pain under those circumstances, and the pain is, in fact, doubled by the behavior. He didn't care enough about me to do it to begin with and didn't care enough about me to understand and acknowledge the hurt, ie display empathy. "
---
Thank you for this.
This happened soooo many times in my relationship. My ex would do the exact same thing. Hurt me again in the same way and then get angry and refuse to discuss it or give a half-assed "sorry you feel that way" type of non-apology and expect it to be over. If I tried to discuss it or point out that it was a pattern he would become enraged and accuse me of "never moving on" or "living in the past" or "being negative" simply for wanting to find real resolution and have my needs or feelings acknowledged. I cannot tell you how many times he argued me down about how I shouldn't be "so upset" and that I was "too insecure" or "too sensitive" ...and I tried so hard to get him to understand that the past is not in the past if it is still affecting the present, but to no avail. It was exhausting and absolutely awful.
Thank you so much for putting this into words. I don't wish this kind of frustration on anyone but at the same time is so incredibly validating to read that this is actually a behavioral pattern in others relationships too.
Your first paragraph makes SO
Submitted by quesara1979 on
Your first paragraph makes SO much sense! I didn't even think of it that way. For the life of me - I can't figure out why my husband would constantly repeat things that would hurt him. I'd ask him if he could not eat dairy - but he says "I'll be fine!" and then that night he's paying for it. I'm sure that it could be a different choice there all together - but it makes sense as to why my husband can't remember all of the crap we've gone thru and thinks that our marriage has been great. "We've only had a few problems- but we have a good marriage".
Thanks for pointing that out!
Memory holes
Submitted by Angie_H on
Hi, all,
This topic is timely for me. I had a conversation last night with my husband about a past event that was significant to me, and he absolutely does not remember it. We were going to closing to buy our house, and he got a notice of jury duty. He decided it was important to do his 'civic duty'.
I was working, going to school, taking care of our young child, handling my mother-in-law's declining health, then things related to her estate, buying and selling houses, and preparing to move. Among all this it fell to me to get a power of attorney so I could represent both myself and my husband at closing.
That was a very stressful period, and we were arguing a lot. I find there are many things I do not recall from stressful times in my life. I think it is the same for my husband. While there are other reasons for memory holes, consider stress as a cause.
All the best,
Angie
Going to extremes
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
My wife very frequently goes to extremes. She gets very angry very quickly and easily. She often threatens the kids with such a harsh punishment that there is no further room to escalate if they do not comply. But it is also so harsh that she ends up backing down later, undermining our authority.
This is related to her own self image. She HAS to be supermom. Only the very best! But then, of course, she decides that she has been a complete failure. It's black and white--nothing in between. Or how she sets goals for the kids. Our 15 year-old son does not turn in his homework. She KNOWS he can be an A student, so anything else is essentially failure to live up to his inborn talent. Meanwhile, I am trying to make sure he gets passing grades as the minimum. I am afraid my wife is contributing to his feeling that he might as well not bother if it isn't perfect. (I wrote a doctoral dissertation, so I have a lot of experience with feeling that I needed to come up with something perfect before I could turn it in. That's why there is the academic saying, "Don't get it right, get it written." The other version is "What is the best kind of dissertation? A finished one.")
In addition to the ADHD, I think a lot of my wife's tendency to go to extremes and see everything as black and white is the result of her very narcissistic mother. She desperately wanted (and still wants, even after her death) to prove her worth to her mother. But no one could ever prove their worth to this woman. One of her favorite pastimes when we visited her, for example, was putting down her "friends" who had visited her earlier. She was also the type that would often tell my wife stories about how successful other people's children were--why couldn't my wife be like that? Or she would compare our kids to the much better grandchild of her in-home nurse. She even gave the other kid her car in her will! (I'm sure she must have put this kid down as well when she wasn't using him to beat up on my wife and kids. She put everyone down.)
The supermom extreme also leads to some very harmful behavior in the attempt to be perfect. When our son was young, she grabbed on to the anti-vaccine movement and would not listen to any counterarguments. She insisted on delaying all of his vaccinations. Once we moved and had our daughter, she wanted someone who was the best pediatrician in the area. He told her that she would need to find another pediatrician if she wanted to delay vaccines. Fortunately, that got her to listen.
Another supermom example is that she had disdain for women who had c-sections, but wound up needing one for our son. It must have been the midwife's fault! She was sure that she could have our daughter without a c-section. Why couldn't I tell her that I also "knew" that she could do it? (The new midwife was not able to make this promise, either.) Didn't I believe in her? Once again, she needed a c-section. This has resulted in a lot of guilt and negative energy directed on herself--she had "failed" and became one of those women who have c-sections. There was something wrong with her. (The anti-c-section authors and groups she followed insisted that women were "meant to" and/or "design to" have vaginal deliveries. I looked at it from the other angle--all of the women who died from pregnancy complications because they did not have access to a c-section when they needed one. I felt FORTUNATE that we had insurance and access to the medical care that she and the kids needed.)
Another negative example is that she used to insist that we have more children--even as it became more and more difficult to take care of the two we have (including both giving them care, managing her stress/anger, and our financial situation.) She only accepted that we would not have more kids when I said I believed it would be too much for me and I feared the stress would force me to leave the marriage.
Yes!
Submitted by Brindle on
My wife very frequently goes to extremes. She gets very angry very quickly and easily. She often threatens the kids with such a harsh punishment that there is no further room to escalate if they do not comply. But it is also so harsh that she ends up backing down later, undermining our authority.
This is *exactly* what happens here. I've said the same thing - "if they do it again, now what will you do? You've not left yourself anywhere to go."
Emotional issues
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
Hi Brin,
Yes emotional over-reaction, sometimes to an extreme that might resemble a childhood temper tantrum or an all or nothing declaration, like you mention... or sometimes a total non-reaction in a situation where one would expect some level of emotion .... seems to be extremely common even though the DSM does not include an emotional component in their symptom list.
It's common in the descriptions from the majority of people on this site, and was a huge problem in my own relationship as well. I would recommend watching Dr. Russell Barkley and Dr. Thomas Brown's lectures on Youtube. All their lectures are worth watching but the emotional and self control ones in particular are applicable to this particular question.
They were a huge help to me in understanding what had been going on in my relationship, even though I didn't come across them until after we split up.
I hope they help you as well.
Thank you!
Submitted by Brindle on
I will look for those videos. I really appreciate the recommendation.
Brin, holes and memories
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Yes, and yes. The holes in memories are there for my ADHD husband and only a few repeated stories of childhood are the same here also. It's as if he had no awareness of his life around him as a child, or even now in his 60s.
If something isn't directly affecting him, it doesn't seem to exist. I've also noticed lately his memory is becoming worse than ever. He is forgetting the "smallest" of things, (and some large things) which has me concerned. He's also getting worse at "finding" something that is DIRECTLY in front of him. I've had to walk up to him MANY times lately and pick up something on the counter and put it in his hand. "Oh, I didn't see that". "Why did you hide it from me?" The last phrase is his attempt at making it funny, but after several hundred times, it ceases to be funny any more.
His mother passed from Alzheimer's and he is now doing some of the things that she was doing before her diagnosis. It's getting me wigged out. He is concerned about it also, but still not enough to get REAL ADHD help. He takes Concerta when he remembers it, but that's all. He won't read about ADHD and co-morbid conditions. All I know now, is that it's getting much worse as he gets older, and it's been freaking me out lately.
Oh, and yes, he too would get terribly upset if his birthday wasn't special enough, or if we didn't get the "right" thing. It was upsetting, especially when our kids were young. It was so childish, and seemed so selfish at the time. We didn't understand it, (he was diagnosed 10 years ago) but it hurt our kids feelings when they really tried to do something nice. Plus, he didn't try to make anyone else's birthdays special, so it was hard to understand the double standard that was always present. (And still is, in many ways)
The upset and double standard
Submitted by Brindle on
Oh, and yes, he too would get terribly upset if his birthday wasn't special enough, or if we didn't get the "right" thing. It was upsetting, especially when our kids were young. It was so childish, and seemed so selfish at the time. We didn't understand it, (he was diagnosed 10 years ago) but it hurt our kids feelings when they really tried to do something nice. Plus, he didn't try to make anyone else's birthdays special, so it was hard to understand the double standard that was always present. (And still is, in many ways)
This. Definitely this. The kids are noticing the inconsistencies as they are getting older, and they don't like the double standard at all. Well, me, either.
I'm sorry about the Alzheimer's and the concerning behavior. I really hope it's not that at all! Cyber hugs.
Different perspective.
Submitted by smd1409 on
As the ADHD husband in a relationship, I can probably answer some of these questions from a different point of view.
No recollection? Technically it’s not that we have any recollection, it’s more that we don’t see the need or importance of it as much as others. It’s a mix of both a go with the flow personality and bad memory in a way. Like I have little interest in how my child was when she was first born, but I am very happy with the woman she is becoming now and look to keeping it that way. I have no reason to dwell on the bad times I’ve had with my wife, rather I’d like to see the times we’ll have together and the time we spend with each other now. We tend to focus more on each and every moment rather than trying to relive a moment that has already past. I can switch things over and ask why people without ADHD want to remember bad moments and relive a past happiness when you can make them now, but that’s just how our minds differ. It can be seen as a good trait if you see it as the ADHD person focusing more on maintaining the relationship rather than trying to take a look at its successes/failures so far. As for remember his career, it’s probably because it feels like a success for him. The times where he is able to focus and feels as though he’s making a difference.
As for extremes when becoming upset, I’ve been trying to control my emotions for more than an entire year and actively looking for ways to control it. It is incredibly hard. Whereas non-ADHD people have more control of their emotions, for us it’s more our emotions have their own mind which like to go to random extremes for no apparent reason. Is it right to get angry at a woman during her period for her mood swings or period pains if she can’t help it, especially when you know she is trying as hard as she can to keep it under check?
Double standards isn’t ADHD related, neither is letting your emotions control you though. And not trying to improve yourself is also not an ADHD problem as well as finding it difficult to improve on. I find telling someone off about their character almost always gets met with resistance. Questioning someone’s character usually doesn’t end well because most of us like to believe that as adults we have life experience which somehow gets connected with character, when in all honesty the large majority of us have a large number of flaws in character still, me included.
Talking about the other side improving is always easy... until the person realizes that half of the flaws of the other can actually be solved if they solved their own character flaws. Then it’s suddenly a question of why do I have to change myself (note how change is used rather than improve) in order to make up for the problems someone else has? (...forgetting that marriage includes teamwork and support, arguing that they’ve done enough already.)
By the way, not concluding that you’re like this, to begin with you’re aware that you need to control your own peace of mind rather than relying on your husband to fulfill that for you and so improving on yourself, it’s just words spawning from general observations of others (both in a normal marriage and when one/two have ADHD) and experience.
Disagree with your analysis
Submitted by adhd32 on
Smd,
I do agree in living in the moment to some degree. But, the problem with never looking back or not referencing the past or "forgetting" about past mistakes is there is no history to build on. Going with the flow, as you put it, is fine if you are on your own without anyone depending on you for financial and emotional support. When someone cannot reference the past consequences of a negative action and they keep repeating the same negative action why do they get angry at someone for pointing out the behavior? Should the family have to accept hoarding, bankruptcy, infidelity or porn addiction as a consequence of ADD spouse choosing not to look back at the past? I am not suggesting someone who is on their own has to change, hell, if they want to live in a mess and run from bill collectors that would be their choice. What I am suggesting is that once there is a committed relationship and childcare responsibilities it seems that the ADD person wants to live life like a teenager...all fun and games and irritated that there is accountability for their actions or inaction. It takes two to have a relationship. When one partner feels they always have to carry the heavy end while the other feels entitled to do whatever they want oblivious to the chaos they create, resentment is not far behind. Bad times teach us lessons. Avoiding the past sets you up to repeatedly make the same mistakes time and again.
Standing ovation.
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
ADHD32, I wish I could like this a million times over. Everything you said is spot on. I repeatedly told my ex "there is more than JUST YOU in this relationship... I am here too and what you do or don't do affects me TOO." I tried to use a hundred different examples of situations that we were in, in order to illustrate it, hoping he would finally get it but it never stuck.
I think I’ve explained this wrong.
Submitted by smd1409 on
I wouldn’t be surprised given the amount of times I’ve gotten into awkward and bad situations doing so.
So for example let’s say I used to watch porn regularly in the past (I don’t). If I haven’t made a change to it yet then obviously I am watching it now. I do not need to remember the past in order to realise that I am still watching porn. Replace porn with bankruptcy, disorganization, emotions, anything. If I have not made a change to it, then the current moment in time will make it completely obvious. If the problems persist then that means it is still happening in the present time and so you do not need to know all the details of the past in order to understand that you still currently have a problem with it. So you focus on solving it now.
Now take it step by step:
1. Watched porn, swore not to do it again and tried to stay away from it.
2. Didn’t work, I found myself getting frustrated and angry to a horrible point and other symptoms got worse as a trade off that don’t make it worhth it (let’s say for example it made my wife even more frustrated than when I was watching porn). So now I try to reduce it slowly.
3. Didn’t work for some reason. Was I not trying hard enough? Or do I need to find a hobby to distract myself with?
4. Didn’t work. Why? I think I’m seeing a pattern. It happens everytime I get frustrated at my job. Therefore I need to focus on not getting frustrated at my job.
... and so on and so forth.
My memory does not allow me to remember the proper details of point 1 when I am at point 4, however I do already know that just simply ‘staying away’ doesn’t work out well. I’ve remember the main point but I do not remember the actual event. This is what I mean by the past is not *as* important to us. It still has some significance but due to our bad memory to try and remember it fully will only lead to problems. We simply do not have the memory capacity to remember that much, and to ask us to is like asking a man without legs to walk. Or even to work for days without food. It’s just not fair because it literally is past our limits and this is how we cope, by only remembering the main points of an event rather than the actual event. I did say that it was a mix of go with the flow and bad memory. This is the bad memory part.
Even with bankruptcy, which might have happened 2 or 3 years ago for someone, even if they do not remember the bankruptcy, if the symptoms that caused the bankruptcy are still there at the present moment, they do not need to remember the bankruptcy, they only need to know that their persisting symptoms will cause bankruptcy.
As for getting angry at pointing out the behaviour and not knowings it’s effects on a relationship, I mentioned in my first post that that is not an ADHD trait, that is a trait in everyone. They shouldn’t be getting angry at it, though sometimes it can be understandable in situations. Think of the case of that woman who kept encouraging her boyfriend to commit suicide. You can argue his suicide was because of her because he tried everything he could to resist. Similarly, someone may be trying everything they can to not get angry at something, yet others are constantly pushing the wrong buttons and doing the wrong things which leads to their anger like how nagging is an ineffective way to get someone with ADHD to do something (because of their bad memory and such etc.). Or more towards home, how you may get stressed out at your boss because your boss is asking you to do things which should not be part of your job. Also I don’t just read up on marriages where adhd is involved, I read up on normal marriages too so I’m quite aware of what problems are in both types.
So you know, though you may disagree with my viewpoint, know that I have improved drastically on my symptoms and so it must not be necessary for someone with ADHD to remember the full details of their past if I am still able to improve without it. I would imagine my wife would also agree with my methods and views because simply put, she seems really happy with our relationship. It may not make sense for you but it may make complete sense to someone with ADHD... or at least to me. I did not need to constantly remember all the details of my past in order to improve, just simply the lessons learnt from my past. Once again maybe I just didn’t explain it properly. It’s really hard to explain when the mind of someone with ADHD works so very differently from someone who doesn’t. Like Melissa said in one of her posts, we work at different wavelengths and we just need to accept it.
Okay
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Good discussion. I see what you are saying. You can recognize and have enough self awareness to understand that if the current symptoms are still there, the results will be the same. See below:
Even with bankruptcy, which might have happened 2 or 3 years ago for someone, even if they do not remember the bankruptcy, if the symptoms that caused the bankruptcy are still there at the present moment, they do not need to remember the bankruptcy, they only need to know that their persisting symptoms will cause bankruptcy.
On some level there must be an understanding of this, that the symptoms will lead to repeated behavior and difficulty. For my part, I remember and draw up facts and experiences and images, hold them up, and say, "oh no", not a good idea based on what happened before. Oh no,don't do that again. It sounds like you use a different method to get to the same point.
I don't have an answer for this in my own situation. For example, my H doesn't remember the previous financial catastrophe that happened 2 or 3 years ago or the one that happened 2 or 3 years before THAT and ALSO does not recognize that the symptoms persist and will result in the same outcome. There has been no change in behavior to avoid the same outcome. What is the real problem? I don't know. Some kind of perception/understanding/logical thinking issue? I really don't know. He has trouble connecting the dots. He cannot see that he didn't fix the underlying behavior. Pointing it out is a recipe for even more marital distress. Nagging - nope, doesn't work. It needs to come from him. He cannot formulate a cohesive plan to get out of it, such as a budget. In fact, he has said so damn many times over the years that he has a plan - in his head - and I've argued that if you can't articulate it and put it on paper, it's not much of a plan. He cannot see that the problem persists and even if he is not looking in the rearview mirror, he does not understand that it is happening now and that something must be changed. In short,can't recognize the need for change OR figure out how to do it. It's not something I can do for him. What troubles me the most about the relationship in these circumstances, is that he can't remember (there's that memory word again)how much pain, anxiety and difficulty he caused someone else. Therefore, my conclusion ended up being that if he can't remember it and can't figure out how to change the behavior that causes it, he is doomed to repeat it and I will be hurt over and over again. I can accept that my H works at a different wavelength, but I can't accept that his rock in the pond crates a tsunami level wave that drowns me. What you're describing makes perfect sense. You don't have to time travel to figure out that you can solve a problem real time without it.
I applaud your efforts and self reflection.
I know he doesn't think the same way I do. We are readying the house for sale. We have to sell the house. I asked him what were his thoughts about where to live, etc. after the sale. He didn't know He told me "I have to think about this a certain way. " Unfortunately, the certain way meant that he could only think about one discrete task at a time and not the whole, long-term picture as in what should we do. I had to ask him what I should feel like, married to someone who cannot project our lives more than 3 months down the road or consider his responsibilities and obligations as a spouse and parent. I am seriously digressing here. Someone who cannot think about or plan any kind of future. I asked him if he understood that it's an insecure place to be for a spouse. His debt put us here, he can't figure a way out or , well, anything. I could even make peace with being his "outside brain" for things like this, except for his steadfast need to not work with me in any real way.
No, it's not likely just an issue with memory. He's said in the past that he would like to change some things but didn't know what to do or what it would look like. sigh. The simple answers - take your prescription and see a therapist as a start - didn't work. He simply didn't/couldn't do it. So, I guess he recognized that the symptoms persisted but could not discipline himself or plan (?) a way to make the changes? That's why I highlighted that line... the realization must be there.
I'm venting. Sorry.
Vabeachgal, penny wise, pound foolish
Submitted by dedelight4 on
My H does many of the same things you listed above. He cannot form a "workable" plan. Oh, He's formed many plans, and tried to work them, but they always end up costing us MORE time and money and stress than he could even fathom. He then blames something or someone else. Lately, he has been saying out loud, that HE is the one casing so many issues, but it's the solutions that never get talked about.
Since he won't really look INTO what his ADHD is all about, and how much it has an effect on his brain, he doesn't put the pieces together. We are close to retirement and we lived better financially when we were younger, than we do now. It makes no sense, but part of it was a decision of his to move where we are now. He took a job I thought was totally wrong for him, and he wouldn't listen to me at all. No kind of reasoning or talking or ANYTHING would change his mind about this. And, now everything I said would happen HAS happened regarding this job and move. He changed the narrative and then said "It was the only job available at the time", when it wasnt. I had 2 others helping me look for possible job openings for him, and there were several openings that particular spring. He just wouldn't look at them at the time. He still is trying to keep that narrative going, but I know different. But, he does say he now knows this wasn't a good job for him. Hhmmmm.
Still choosing denial in some things.
Many plans
Submitted by vabeachgal on
DeDe:
H actually signed the divorce paperwork. His debt level is greater than his annual salary. He has plans! Plans to buy a new truck as soon as the house sells. Of course, he wants "to do it the smart way", when his "credit is better."
Many plans, but no living arrangement plans as far as I know. No workable plan to pay off the debt. No plans to fix his withholdings to reflect the pending change in status.
He has plans to help the children with the proceeds. That's nice. It really is. Sigh. My son asked for $40 to buy two recommended books for his economics class. My H jumped in and said, sure, order them. Well, he is a grown man with $24 left in his account and 4 days to payday. The answer? Take money out of "savings", ie. the loan proceeds to be used for home repairs. $40 books? Nope. Let's withdraw $800. I can't make this stuff up.
Against my recommendation, he took out a loan at, oh, I don't know, probably 27% to make the needed household repairs. He's using A LOT of it to float regular living expenses right now.
Plans to lose weight? Okay... he takes diet pills, drinks 4-5 beers a night and eats fast food 1 or 2 times a day and orders a pizza when he doesn't feel like preparing dinner... eats 3/4 of it. RIIIGGGHHHTTT!!!!
Seriously, the brain is not functioning properly.
Let me repeat. I am married to a middle aged grown ass man who can't keep more than $24 in his account, yet to everyone else I'm the bitch in the relationship.
I Second That
Submitted by phatmama on
Preach! Dead on accurate.
Just feeling sad today
Submitted by Brindle on
Last night there was discussion of past places and small details of those places. *Those* he can remember, but he can’t remember details about me or our marriage that are very significant. (Like in my original post up there when we almost divorced). I really do think it’s because only what is important to him matters. And I’m not *that* important to him. I think he only loves me in a shallow way.
I mean, he cares about providing for us financially and he does a really good job of that (which from watching other ADHDers, is a big deal, I know), but he also complains about it. That hurts and I have begun to think he sees us as a burden.
He also doesn’t help me when I’m stressed. Just says, “you’re always stressed,” and goes on to his hobbies and never lifts a finger. I do all the stuff - the kids, the financial stuff, the house cleaning (he does zero household chores), and so on. How much does he actually care about me, if he thinks I’m “always stressed” and never bothers to try to help?
So I think the lack of remembering significant parts of our marriage is partially because he got what he wanted - he got to explode and say all kinds of hurtful things which made him feel better, and when we separated, he got to live elsewhere and have fun... so he only remembers the fun part. Only remembers his roommates and things they talked about but he can’t remember that we were considering divorce at that time!! Because our marriage and his fun - see which was more important? It certainly wasn’t me or our kids or our marriage. It was his fun, his comfort. It certainly wasn’t that “man, I really hurt her” or that we even had things to work through. Nope. But things he and they talked about... now that’s the stuff that stuck.
But nonADHD men would remember that stuff, even if they were heartless, they’d remember that a relationship was rocky, they’d remember that they yelled at her, they’d remember if she cried. They wouldn’t care, but they’d remember.
I think I’m dealing with both. A guy who has ADHD and who doesn’t care all that much. Bad combo because then I’m invisible and my pain is invisible.